>Pankaj Mishra's review in The New York Review of Books described 12 Rules as a repackaged collection of pieties and late-nineteenth century Jungian mysticism which has been discredited by the modern field of psychology. Mishra compared the book, and Peterson's ideas, to historical authors who influenced Peterson, but whose serious moral failings, including racism and fascism, Peterson fails to address. He criticizes Peterson's book for failing to recognize how traditionalism and myth can be used in support of demagoguery and anti-democratic ideas, and claims that Peterson's work is a symptom of the problems it attempts to cure. Peterson responded to the review on Twitter, claiming that Mishra's reviews contained "half-truths". Peterson tweeted "If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily".
Pankaj Mishra's review in The New York Review of Books described 12 Rules as a repackaged collection of pieties and...
>late-nineteenth century Jungian mysticism
ptdr mais annhiler ce continent de déchèt abruti
It's strange to find myself defending Peterson but the NYRB has taken a serious decline in quality since Robert Silvers died.
Peterson saying that line about violence is absolutely shameful on his part. How dare he say such a thing? Did he ever apologize for it?
>Pankaj Mishra
street shitter whose racial telos is to maximize the number of destitute, debased, and abasing trash-combers as far as possible in order to gratify his own ego by comparison. pic related.
>a repackaged collection of pieties
aka The Gods of the Copybook Headings
>late-nineteenth century Jungian mysticism
Jung is silly, but at least he's interesting.
>which has been discredited by the modern field of psychology
modern psychology is to the study of the human mind what alchemy is to the study of the elements and astrology is to the study of the heavenly bodies. It's a tool of power, and the things that it does and doesn't "discredit" as a discipline are nothing more or less than what one expects given this fact.
>serious moral failings, including racism and fascism, Peterson fails to address.
the shitpope has pronounced anathema, how can there be any further argument?
>how traditionalism and myth can be used in support of demagoguery and anti-democratic ideas
holy unexamined assumptions batman
>Peterson's work is a symptom of the problems it attempts to cure
broken clock
>Peterson tweeted "If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily".
tfw my monocle literally popped out of my eye socket when someone made a mean remark to me on the Internet!
In the interest of context, Peterson's tweet was directly in response to the following lines:
>Peterson claims that he has been inducted into “the coastal Pacific Kwakwaka’wakw tribe”; he is clearly proud of the Native American longhouse he has built in his Toronto home.
>Peterson may seem the latest in a long line of eggheads pretentiously but harmlessly romancing the noble savage.
In Canada Native Americans actually make up a considerable minority of the population, and do have a decent amount of cultural power beyond the "nobel savages vanquished foes" bullshit that the USA has. This is especially the case in the Pacific Northwest, where PN Indian artwork is by far the dominant aesthetic movement.
Most of Peterson's longhouse is an artwork collection from a personal friend of his who he patronizes. Considering he's been inducted into the tribe as well, which is a rare honour for white people, it's hardly inappropriate for him to have artwork. It's akin to somebody who was granted Canadian citizenship hanging a Canadian flag on their wall, only in order to be granted citizenship he had to have somebody vouch for him, take part in multiple 16 hour ceremonies, supply food for several families, and also the country he was inducted into has a several thousand year old history and a population slightly smaller than a small town.
Mishra, being an Americanized Julab, doesn't understand even the slightest thing about the subtleties of Canadian-Native relationships though. He see's a white guy with brown people artwork, and reaches into his undergraduate education for the first slur he can throw. American race relations are already bad enough, but when you get historically irrelevant brown people showing up and picking up different causes -despite having no actual teleological involvement in the various struggles- in order to gain social capital, then it becomes farcical.
Have sex
Same assumptions you have on psychology Freddie.
Coping this hard to spin the work into some “you hate the thing you are yourself”. Peterson never claimed any of this stuff is new information. He said many times it’s his attempt to repackage thoughts from better people, whose ideas require too much study to comprehend on a first pass. His aim is to help. To suggest it causes the problem it’s trying to solve is an incredible straw man and misses the point entirely. Try harder.
Peterson is a hack, more news at 11
The insidiousness of Jordan Peterson lies in that he simultaneously reduces timeless wisdom to self-help jargon and common sense advice while also affirming the righteousness and desirability of modernity. All of the problems that Peterson tackles are themselves just various manifestations of modernity itself, but nothing he talks or writes delves into this larger problem or how to deal with it. To the contrary, he takes religious texts that contain profound wisdom and teachings passed down through the ages and uses them as corporate bug-man self-help advice for kids who weren't raised properly. Peterson low-key pushes a mythos that western society in modernity is fundamentally just and a good thing and that aside from some irrational, stupid and greedy people that you have to deal with that everything is okay in principle.
This couldn't be more wrong. Since the emergence of civilization most of the them were united by religious traditions teaching metaphysical knowledge. All the problems of the western mentality and society stem from the loss of this. Christ, the Neoplatonists and to some extent the Hermetics and certain Greek mystery cults all had it too but the Church eventually became an encrusted coffin of doctrine with no accompanying realizations to be had hence why it failed to prevent modernity from arising in the west. Without being connected to any higher understanding in any significant amount among it's intellectual elite, western society has ever since the renaissance has in free fall accompanied by materialism, nihilism, scientism and various other forms of spiritual and cultural degeneration. Peterson affirms all this as good by buying into the faulty idea of the linear progression of civilization and humanity and by shilling it to his unaware fans.
Did you ever figure out why Peterson never seriously delves into eastern thought aside from a few boomer references to Buddhism and Confucius? It's because it totally destroys his worldview and offers completely different solutions to the ideas he address. Why did one of the largest and most impressive bodies of spiritual literature ever emerge out of society with a caste system? Because they are the right way to base a society. Most of the societal problems he address wouldn't even arise in a traditional eastern civilization pre-modernity but just reflect the state of the modern west. It's bad enough that he does all of this already but then he takes one of the few sources of timeless wisdom that are tradition in the west and reduces it to a source of bland common-sense life advice instead of a window to transcendental truths wherein lies the solutions to all problems.
This is how a non-faggot Indian criticizes Peterson.
High five, Vijay.
>discredited by the modern field of psychology
>discredited
Not really, psychoanalysis has just fallen out of fashion. I have a master's degree in psychology and we mostly did mid-tier statistics shit and some behavioural biology and neuroscience. Freud, Jung and others were mentioned half assedly under "yeah, these guys did some thingsbut you don't need to know about that shit, let's move on". Psychology wants to be hard science now but no amount of data worship will actually be able to achieve that, it's still a meme field but with added maths.
An actually good critique, good job user
My critique is this: a lot of the psychology he presents is valid (insofar as the standards of psychology are concerned) but he tries to connect it with a larger ideology which has no direct connection. Sort of like how Scientology gives free valid classes on various forms of help and uses that as a basis to jape people into believing the rest of their bullshit. Also, most of Peterson's advice isn't new but I don't think he ever claimed it was.
What would that larger ideology be?
Eh, I can't think of a one-word catch-all term for his thinking atm.
Individualism is definitely a part of it, and the one that he seems to push the most. The rest I suppose is best characterized as classical liberalism.
BUMP. well said m8
"Disney movies are bad"
>He criticizes Peterson's book for failing to recognize how traditionalism and myth can be used in support of demagoguery and anti-democratic ideas
>can be
This is such a lazy criticism of any position. "A racist could use your position to be racist; therefore it's bad/wrong." It's basically a roundabout way of calling someone racist/evil/whatever, without having to actually claim, show, and defend how their position, actions, or speech is racist/evil.
Does poppa Peterson's cock feel good up your rectum?
>caste systems are the right way to base a society
lmao try again retard
I don't give a fuck about Peterson, I'm just tired of the lazy race-baiting that constantly goes on in the lamestream media.
Holy fuck you peterson babys are pathetic. Are you serious? You know that peterson is just repackaging ideas and youre okay with this??? Holy fuck you dumb honkey fucks just read the fucking originals. There are no fucking shortcuts to this shit. Him reducing and reapckaging is the entire point of why he's a hack. Holy fuckk lmao
holy fuck lmao indeed nigger
Interesting. Is there perhaps a certain ethnicity, or religion of people who basically own and control the NYT? Just asking out of research purposes.
He's right about Jungianism, but demanding the ritual pronouncement of fascism is a bit creepy.
the NYRB is not the same as the NYT but yes it's also founded and run by that same group
ideas tend to be repackaged to make them more palatable and easier to understand. if people like his book they may have interest to read more of the primary source
>Peterson tweeted "If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily".
based. they should duel
>Mishra wrote about Peterson’s friendship with a Native American on Vancouver Island, saying that Peterson was “pretentiously but harmlessly romancing the noble savage.”
“To me, that just crossed the line,” Peterson said. “I’ve been helping [his Native American friend] develop his artistic career… for 15 years. I thought that was a really dirty blow, and I also thought it was racist.”
Peterstein really likes the culture of others, doesn't he? Except for the Caucasian race. No, they should alll be individuals.
it really warms my heart that indians were cucked so hard by steppe people that even thousands of years later they’ll give an impassioned defence of the racial class system placing them at the bottom.
Jordan Peterson is a Left-leaning demagogue who has attempted to pull people away from race realism, ethnonationalism and other "racist and fascist" ideas, specifically by using their own rhetoric against them in a more controllable way.
The response by the Left? Call him a Nazi. If anyone wonders why right-wing populism and nativist sentiment is exploding everywhere in the West, all you need to do is look at this one, small case sample. This fucking Punjabi is too stupid to understand that Peterson is literally on his side. The most effective criticism of Peterson that I've ever read doesn't come from some shitblooded liberal pajeet, it comes from Alt Hype, a fucking Nazi. Peterson DOES just repackage banal platitudes and truisms for the masses--the question is not that he does it, or how he does it, but WHY.
And the answer is that he's trying to astroturf a center-left counterculture to draw away the disaffected white men who make up the huge bulk of the dissident Right. Undercutting him is a disastrous strategic mistake--but the Left is very good at making disastrous strategic blunders, that's why they lost the Cold War so decisively.
I always wonder, do leftists think that oppressing people will make them like you because it would work on them? If that is so, does that not vindicate Right-Wing Authoritarianism? The mindset baffles me.
This is actually a pretty good post man.
What do you call it when you hate Peterson but you can't really align to the milquetoast "anti-democracy" criticism by conformist fuckers?
>racial telos
pls tell me about telos thats a fancy word
Good critique. Though I am unsure about your claim of the mystery cults necessarily being 'religious' do you think you can call what Plotinus is doing or what is trying to be conveyed in the Orphic Hymns as religious? What I mean is we have a sense of religiosity in modernity that is so fucked (like you pointed out well) how can we view these more ancient traditions in light of how we live now.
>they lost the Cold War so decisively
Pretty sure they won the ideological war.
>he doesn't think traditionalism and myth can be used in demagoguery
ahahahahahha
HAHAHAHAHAHAAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
They are though
That's not how it worked in actuality, the traditional caste system rules placed many burdens on the upper castes and gave more freedoms to the lower castes such that it's really incompatible with the idea of it being a racial caste system designed to keep the natives down. It's more likely that it already existed among the IE before they came to India and then once they arrived, they just continued the same system as a way of organizing society.
>the Church eventually became an encrusted coffin of doctrine with no accompanying realizations to be had hence why it failed to prevent modernity from arising in the west
Can you elaborate on this, user?
Criticising someone for failing to recognise the potential abuse of their ideas is not the same as criticising them ad hitlerum. He's demonstrating that Peterson's ideas are weak because he doesn't strengthen them through self-critique or by anticipating potential criticisms, or the misuses of his thoughts. Peterson trying to play devil's advocate simply doesn't work because his understanding of his opponents is almost universally a strawman that he doesn't take the time to engage with at any real depth.
This is your brain on petershit
moot should just delete pol again already
Le journalope va toujours exister donc cette chiasse aussi
Not the guy you responded to, but I don't see any reason why mystery cults, Orphism, Platonism/Neo-platonism, etc. wouldn't be religion. All the hallmarks are there: ritual, sacred spaces, prohibitions on certain behaviors, metaphysical teachings, and a belief in the supernatural. It's important to note that the Greeks had no specifically liturgical literature, though many of the surviving texts we have are religious in a way that is indirect to us but was immanently obvious to the Greeks of the period. Hesiod's Catalogues and Theogony come closest to what we would consider explicitly religious scripture, but they aren't "canon" in our modern sense since it was typical for poets and cults to make departures from Hesiod's rendering of the gods. Likewise, Homer serves a fundamental role in Greek religion, as the Iliad and Odyssey were regularly performed in public and taught to every schoolchild. As you can see in almost any work of Greek literature, it was common for Greek citizens to be able to recite large portions of Homer at will, or use lines of his poems to justify a course of action. It was simply a matter of Greek life that citizens had an intimate knowledge of Homer and Hesiod. Though there is no liturgical literature per se, these poems contain liturgical elements. Havelock argues that the carefully recorded and oft-repeated rituals in Homer served as a means for the listener to learn the proper order for these rituals.
Keep in mind that for most of Greek history, the culture was only "semi-literate": though citizens were able to read, more intimate to them were rituals and customs performed the real world, like music and theater. The Greeks did not really produce literary works "in and of themselves" like we do today. Poems were written to be sung, plays were the primary mode of fiction, and philosophical literature was a sort of advertisement for various sophists and academies. I fully subscribe to the view that Plato's dialogues are the exoteric renderings of an esoteric philosophy that he taught at the Academy. While various philosophies taught the theoretical elements of their religion in literature, the practical matters were learned through cult practices. It's no mistake that Platonism serves as a significant basis for Christianity and many strains of Jewish theology, since it was always at-bottom religious.
See:
Greek Religion, Walter Burkert
Preface to Plato, Eric Havelock
Philosophy Between the Lines, Arthur Melzer
The various works of Algis Uzdavinys
>Thinking anything close to Jung's truths have been reaches since his death.
Besides Peterson just degenerates Jung's writings into Individualism.
So can literally anything else.
You don't think it's interesting that, on examination or at least given an even casual background in political history, "demagoguery" and "anti-democratic ideas" seem kind of, I don't know, opposite? What's going on is that Pancake Mishra defines "democracy" as "everybody agrees that the right people [that's us] get to rule". "Demagoguery" is when everybody agrees the wrong people get to be in charge, which implies that "everybody" is incorrect and need to be overruled. "Anti-democratic ideas" means pretty much the same thing.
>That's not how it worked in actuality
nice try but we've got the ancient DNA now. You're full of shit and objectively wrong.
holy fuckk lmao friendo did you really just downboat that poast? yikesaroony. the sheer caucasity. smdh at this wibooiyy
Thank you for the longpost
the DNA doesn't support any conclusion regarding the caste system other than that it came from the IE, which I already stated