Were Achilles and Patroclus lovers?

Were Achilles and Patroclus lovers?

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No, the word "lovers" would imply that it was gay, but it was totally not gay.

Brotherly love not limited to hugs and hand holding.

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Only Patroclus was the lover (erastes). Achilles was merely the beloved (eromenos).

Aeschylus thought so.

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^

Also how were femenine men treated back then?

better than women

All I'm seeing from this is that the greeks loved thighs

Truly men of culture

what is the truth

It refers to intercrural penetration.

We should try this for educational reasons.

Not in any modern sense of the word

>semes and ukes have always existed
Did they have fujos too?

> (OP)
>Aeschylus thought so.
Wow jk Rowling's was inspired from Greek lit

This. They just fucked each other. It wasn’t gay

They explicitly did NOT fuck each other. One did the fucking only. The matter of which has been hotly debated for millennia

BUTTERFLY

I think recently I’ve been kind of mean to you, like trivializing your sexuality. I think you might be doing that with me. I want to post a few things that make you a good person

-You are very cute! Out of all the women I see on a daily basis you are by far the most attractive!
- You are very smart! You read a lot of very intelligent literature. To not turn this into a meaningless platitude (of which I’m sure you hate as much as I do), you know a fair deal more about socialism than I do.
-If you do anything with anyone I’m not interested anymore, as I’ve got things to turn my attention to.

:3

I had to post this again because they delete it. I’d be willing to exchange a ban for a good influence in your life!

>women
>butterfly
OH NO NO NO

Yesss she is :D

They jerked each other off, but didn't do any actual assfucking.

Ancient Greek pederasty IS a form of romantic homosexual love. It is always associated with passionate romance and can easily be compared to modern homosexual relationships in literature and everyday life. Achilles and Patroclus present themselves as a template for many homosexual lovers past and present.

You are wrong on every count

Well, it happened once in a while, but they weren't supposed to.

How do you know? Do you have their sextablet?

No, Agamemnon or Chryses fucked Achilles, that is the only way

They fucked a couple times as a prank, but were not actually gays

But Achilles slept in the innermost part of the sturdy hut, with a woman he brought from Lesbos at his side, lovely Diomede, daughter of Phorbas. And Patroclus lay opposite, with fair Iphis, whom noble Achilles assigned to him at the taking of lofty Scyrus, city of Enyeus.

not gay,the whole debate hinges on the interpretation of an ambiguous word

Patroclus was Achilles's "Cousin," Instead of his Lover. While the relationship between Patroclus and Achilles is never explicitly described in The Iliad, other works by the likes of Plato and Aeschlyus portray the characters as lovers

you faggots trying soo hard to make homer fit your modern views

>this thread
fucking greeks would have me believing that all that man talk was cool and brotherly when in reality they all gay af

I hope so

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> modern views
> Aeschylus and Plato
> modern

the democratic world of platos athens is far removed from late bronze age troy

In democratic Athens, it was the old fashioned aristocratic party who were the pronounced pederasts.

>the old fashioned aristocratic party

this retard thinks the rich athenians are a throwback to late bronze age homeric thought

If you think the Homeric epics as we currently have them give us a clear unmediated view of late Bronze age thought, you're the retard.

Then he came to Priam’s lovely palace, fronted by marble colonnades, and enclosing fifty chambers of polished stone, adjoining one another, where Priam’s sons slept beside their wives and opposite within the court twelve well-roofed closely-adjoining chambers of polished stone for his noble daughters and his sons-in-law.

priam's palace is a heterosexual breeding kennel for humans

just finished reading the iliad and odyssey
why did they always bathe in olive oil?
and why did they never eat seafood?

With this, the old woman, preparing to wash his feet, poured cold water into the shining basin then added hot. Odysseus swiftly sat down by the hearth, and turned towards the shadows,...t was this scar the old woman felt as she passed her hands over his leg, and recognising it she let his leg fall. The bronze rang as his foot struck the basin, upsetting it, and spilling the water on the ground.

insidious faggots trying to subvert based homer

...

ὣς φάτο, Πάτροkλος δὲ φίλῳ ἐπεπείθεθ᾽ ἑταίρῳ.

In ancient texts, philos-φίλῳ- denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.

But Achilles slept in the innermost part of the sturdy hut, with a woman he brought from Lesbos at his side, lovely Diomede, daughter of Phorbas. And Patroclus lay opposite, with fair Iphis, whom noble Achilles assigned to him at the taking of lofty Scyrus, city of Enyeus.


Homer, to be sure, does not portray Achilles and Patroclus as lovers

i taught myself greek just to shut down these faggy subversive threads.thanks Yea Forums.

peter says to jesus Κύριε;σὺ οἶδας φιλῶ σε lord you know i love you.

achilles and patroclus are total bros balls deep in sex slave puss every night. homer does not use the terms erastes” and eromenos

>other works by the likes of Plato and Aeschlyus portray the characters as lovers
Yeah, but they're hundreds of years apart from that work and clearly biased.

Fragment #61—Eustathius, Hom. 112. 44 sq: It should be observed that the ancient narrative hands down the account that Patroclus was even a kinsman of Achilles; for Hesiod says that Menoethius the father of Patroclus, was a brother of Peleus, so that in that case they were first cousins.

yes plato said that before he wrote republic where he redpills himself by thinking up the allegory of the cave where he realized that culture changes and can be manipulated

symposium is plato pre enlightenment