Seriously, was he just trolling people with this?

Its important to read it as a reaction to the Kant thing that to Joyce humanity has bound itself within as metaphysical black box from which it cannot by conceptuality ever hope to extract or free itself. From this is the philosophical link: speculative realism, similar to Land, attempts to "access" the Outside/noumena without the terms of the subject. The point of departure is that Lad tries to do it in metaphysical terms, whereas Joyce's wild performance antics/writings were an attempt to go beyond language at all, a bit like some of the crazier parts of Fanged Noumena.

It was 17 years from the time it was started to the time it was published, retard.

this book is hard af, it's the final boss of english literature. he did it to solidify his legacy as the greatest english writer since shakespeare

KEK

He, verifiably, told people close to him exactly what it was “about.”
You sound upset you know you’ll never know.

the final boss of english literature is finding a gf

delet

That's true, but he spent way less than 17 years actually writing it. Learn to read.

Why is it so hard for some people to realize that HARD and OVERCOMPLICATED ≠ GREAT?

what the fuck is "dad-dancing"?

youtube.com/watch?v=1g_UHV42jOA

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FUCK YOU I JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT BOOKS

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It's the ultimate and greatest pseud filter.
Literally no one actually reads it, to have average retards trying to lecture you on its symbolism and shit only solidifies their status as pseuds.

Never, EVER trust someone that tells you they like it, that it's a "must", or drivel of that sort.

Retards actually read it and then believe they form opinions on it haha.

There are professors of literature who have spent their entire lives studying it, legit wtf are you talking about? Project much

Case in point. Please learn to identify buffoons quick so you can mock them accordingly.

Many people have wasted their lives on a lot less.

Yeah, like studying any other book besides maybe the Divine Comedy.

it was his way of saying that literature is all bullshit that led to his eyesight going bad and to fucking go outside you fucking incels

Professors studying it?! Kek, that's absolute bullshit. I can assure you there are no academics who even take that shit seriously.

>maybe

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>Finnegans wake is a meme, nobody can actually read it and enjoy it

The amount of projection and ignorance in this thread is astonishing. Finnegans wake is a masterpiece, and contains some of the best prose in the literary canon. Reading this book all the way through is pure joy.

"My great blue bedroom, the air so quiet, scarce a cloud. In peace and silence. I could have stayed up there for always only. It's something fails us. First we feel. Then we fall. And let her rain now if she likes. Gently or strongly as she likes. Anyway let her rain for my time is come. I done me best when I was let. Thinking always if I go all goes. A hundred cares, a tithe of troubles and is there one who understands me? One in a thousand of years of the nights? All me life I have been lived among them but now they are becoming lothed to me. And I am lothing their little warm tricks. And lothing their mean cosy turns. And all the greedy gushes out through their small souls. And all the lazy leaks down over their brash bodies.

Nice try, pseud

I can assure you there are no academics, but yes back when people actually studied literature this was taken seriously. I’m not sure if you realize, but there have been a great deal of doorstoppers written on this book.

hahahaha what a retard

“we strike hands over his bloodied warsheet but we are pledged entirely to his green mantle; our friend vikelegal, our swaran foi; under the four stones by his streams who vanished the wassailbowl at the joy of shells; Mora and Lora had a hill of a high time looking down on his confusion till firm look in readiness, forward spear and the windfoot of curach strewed the lakemist of Lego over the last of his fields; we darkened for you, faulterer, in the year of mourning but we'll fidhil to the dimtwinklers when the streamy morvenlight calls up the sunbeam;”

All doorstoppers on that book say the exact same thing: >woah primitive universal language it's the restoration of biblical babel tongue woah experimentalism.

Nothing of worth. People are just impressed by "how did he do it?!", and so are you. Too bad, though, that being impressive and overcomplicated doesn't equate to good or intelligent. The book literally says nothing.

You can believe that if you want. I’m not sure why nothing upsets you so much.

>The book literally says nothing
Except that it does, and you have no idea what you're talking about. The irony is that the people ripping on this book, who likely haven't even read it to begin with, are the ones who seem like pseuds.

>reading finnegans wake
Yikes.

Isn't the point of Finnegan's Wake Joyce's use of archaic English and modern English? Incorporating slang, colloaquialisms, jargon, mythological references, double entendres, etc?

I thought the charm was that he used a two hundred year old slang word from regional butfuck Ireland to describe something?

I've read the entire thing. AMA.

studying any single work for your entire life is pretty fucking cuck-tier desu

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What about religious or historical texts?

>When Ezra Pound, a former champion of Joyce's and admirer of Ulysses, was asked his opinion on the text, he wrote "Nothing so far as I make out, nothing short of divine vision or a new cure for the clap can possibly be worth all the circumambient peripherization."

>H.G. Wells, in a personal letter to Joyce, argued that "you have turned your back on common men, on their elementary needs and their restricted time and intelligence [...] I ask: who the hell is this Joyce who demands so many waking hours of the few thousands I have still to live for a proper appreciation of his quirks and fancies and flashes of rendering?"

based Wells

Imagine being Pound and seeing FW as a work in progress and shitting your pants that it would grow to out-class the Cantos and having to go, "Heh, that's nothing."

Nabi hated it.

>Nothing but a formless and dull mass of phony folklore, a cold pudding of a book, a persistent snore in the next room... and only the infrequent snatches of heavenly intonations redeem it from utter insipidity

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en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dad_dancing

Opinions of other authors really shouldn't be your go to when trying to formulate an argument. I recall Woolf's spiteful opinion on Ulysses, which was entirely out of jealousy and recanted later in life

I've read a few pages of FW. It's beautiful, boring bullshit. That said, I respect JJ for writing it. He followed his gift where it wanted to go.

How should I approach it? Should I just listen to the audiobook? The musicality of the language seems to be half the point. Did you find Ellmann or Campbell’s insight to be of any help? Should I consult them before or after?

>I recall Woolf's spiteful opinion on Ulysses
Yes, Woolf was narked Joyce was aiming at a similar thing. Protecting her territory. She shouldn't have worried because she did it better.

You'll never understand that book if you don't listen to the song that inspired Joyce to wrote it.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=EfJuGiDsoVA

What did she do better?
inb4 bait

No, she just resented the fact that a low class Irishman was able to write so well. She was very snobbish.

That said, I love Woolf. The Waves is one of the few books I've read that have made me cry

Taking it to the next level.

Kek

>She was very snobbish.
I don't think she was.
Septimus in Dalloway - no snob could've written that character.
Also hearing that lecture where she bangs on about "words" - she didn't have a snobbish attitude to language.

Took what to the next level lmao

You should read John Carey’s book on intellectuals from the era. She was a renowned cunt, “snob” is putting it nicely

>I love Woolf.
You're a good man. One of my fantasies is going for a pint with her in a proper dive and being an annoying faux-naif yokel and dropping f-bombs.

Honestly, dude, you couldn't be more wrong. If there's an opinion that matters, it's exactly that of another writer, not certainly of your cucked literally who professors. And just so you know, a huge amount of authors have mildly expressed their doubts about FW. "Doubts" means they didn't like it, though. The difference is that you pretend to like it even if you don't get a single thing. Your only argument is "but it's one of the greatest books ever written!". Why? How? What does that mean? Are you one of those simpletons who determine that a book is a masterpiece just by counting the number of pages? Or by checking the quantity of crical texts written on it? Well, one word for you: kek.

Will do that sounds super interesting

Fiction bro lmao

>She was a renowned cunt, “snob” is putting it nicely
can you remember any specifics of her cuntiness?

ordered that carey. looks good.

>If there's an opinion that matters, it's exactly that of another writer
No one's going to judge you if you don't read Finnegans Wake, bro. You don't need to appeal to snide remarks by competitors to justify it.

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based lmao

Finnegans Wake is a masterpiece because of its following of aesthetics in language towards its conclusion. Aesthetics, or figuring out what exactly is beautiful in literature, is clearly what Joyce cared about the most. If you understand that, it only seems logical that Finnegans Wake would be the culmination of his work. The entire book is an aesthetic experience. And that isn't even to say anything of the books subtle narrative, of which I assure you there is. I cried when I reached the end of the book and realized its implications.

>The difference is that you pretend to like it even if you don't get a single thing.
you can like something without understanding it.

Imagine hating puns this much.

you're based kek

lmao love you bro

>implications
what were they user? spare me the 18 hours of wading in mick guff

lmao

>posting blooms
Opinion discarded.

Nice post, thanks. I respect your opinion, even if you sound pretty fake and gay with that crying detail. But I respect your opinion, really.

Oh, sure you can. However it's a fact that most people dislike FW even if they understand it.

I do not hate, hatred is for internet boogeymen like you.

Continuity of existence. The book ends with the acceptance of death and fading out of consciousness, and begins with the full expression of the narrators last thought.

ITT: Brekkek Kekkek Kekkek Kekkek

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That sounds, dare I say it, pretty damned based.

Generic as fuck. Again, you said nothing, just like the book.

Great way to navigate in your own smug void.

spotted the pseud

I think that you may just not be cut out for literature. I could write an essay for you and you probably still wouldn't be any closer to getting it

Wow, and now this post? You're truly a champion in offending unknown people on the internet!

fucking state of you lads

>it was his way of saying that literature is all bullshit
>and to fucking go outside you fucking incels
Sounds familiar

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K fag, let's stop tho

No. CONTINUE.

Only if you suck my cock

Post pic of cock and i'll post pic of mouth. ok?

>I cried
Jesus, you need TRT therapy

gay thread but i kinda like it

>You're not allowed to sincerely enjoy and love anything, ever

'finding' a gf is /biz/ or /fit/ not Yea Forums

You want me to get banned, that's unfair you bastard.

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t. brainlet who doesn't understand finnegan's wake

>not /r9k/

t. brainlet who thinks he understand finnegans wake

>finnegan's wake

it'd do you good

this

You can't even get the title right. It's "Finnegans Wake"

Finna get Woke

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no it's not it's finnegan's wake

kek

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based

That is amazing, I need to read it.

samefag

little surprised this got no replies, guess it dead

based autist

i read it. it wasnt very good

How lmao

Basically, Woolf read the top names. Your Dickenses, your Tolstoys, your Brontes, your Turgenevs. She said, "That's great. Buts lets move it up a notch." She practiced writing for ages, gave it a good stab, and took it to the next level.

What is the next level from list related

The next level from your Dickenses, your Tolstoys, your Brontes, your Turgenevs?

yah

A good question...

It's been done one hun dred times now. What did you expect. An exceptionally clever reference that will forever remain one of Yea Forums's great masterpieces of humour, with that said.

I don't have a good answer.
It's the level of your Kafkas, your Joyces, your Prousts and your Woolfs.
to guess it's the level where the act of producing writing is brought to the fore in some respect - stylistically, formally, conceptually - possibly to as a means to escape from conventions that had become suffocating, somehow or other.

AMAZING BASE

Then why make the claim? That sounds like a bunch of historically contingent criteria that easily could be applied to Tolstoy in relation to, say, Jane Austen.

He wasn't trolling anyone. It's very predictable in the development of his literature. Yeah it's very abstract. To the point where there barely even discernible plot lines or character arcs. I haven't read the entire thing but I have read along with audiobook for passages. I think he thought he was accomplishing the perfect form of artistic prose. The writing style is meticulously structured to resemble psychosis-induced disorganized thoughts.

You're 100% right everyone you applied to literally just conflated the regular development of fiction writing over time with taking literature to 'higher levels'. Yeah bro you could say the same thing about generations of xbox... lol

Gets me every time

I tried reading this and could not understand anything. I got bored, put the book away, and went back to programming.
138 IQ btw

Why make the claim? Because there appears to be something qualitatively different between the classic novels of the mid-C19th and the high modernist stuff that was produced around WW1. Art changes over time and it is interesting to try to make sense of the hows and whys of it.
>historically contingent criteria
What are you saying here?

>generations of xbox.
what about the difference between an xbox and NES?

Fuck off.

This.
But also this:
youtu.be/9__cwvLhbW0
Neodecadence arrives from postIreland.

That excerpt reads so much like Faulkner

based

This is the Joyce general thread right? What's "The Encounter" from Dubliners even about? Is the dude a pedo or something?

most Yea Forums comment ever lol shut up finnegans wake is unreadable

yikes

Can you expand on what you mean by "metaphysical black box"? I'm not really familiar with Kant but I'm interested.

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You can feel justifiably annoyed by the experiment, precisely because the experiment seems useless or meaningless to you. More to the point because the experience is just another example of haute couture masturbation, which it is and has been since it was published. But it's been hated and loved, praised and debased, in the same way this thread's going on about for decades. If it's a troll, then he wins on the grounds of that experiment. If it isn't a troll, he wins on the grounds of another kind of experiment. You can respect that or not.
Anyway, it doesn't matter if you think the experiment fails. Who cares if you don't like it? Frankly what's annoying about Finnegans Wake, if anything, is what is annoying about the novel form in general. The novel is easily the worst medium for writing, and as a medium it almost never succeeds. At least Joyce made a go of it in the way he did, even if that go more or less just points to the limitations of the medium. If he tried to "get outside of language," then he picked the worst medium to do it. If he tried to change the medium, then all the following commentary proves he's done nothing of the sort. If he tried to give something about death, any given commentary on it will show that he said it rather than showed it.
Finnegans Wake is a pretty good novel, which is high praise for such a shit medium.

Possibly, but what is important isn't pinning down specifics of whether or not he masturbated or what his motives were, etc. The important thing is just the narrator, who is unsettled by something. He reads his books of adventures and thinks he can go out into the world like that, but then discovers the real, adult world is not the simple and pleasant world of childhood games.

>he picked the worst medium to do it
He picked other mediums first, but for some reason couldn't pull it off.

Oh my goodness shut the fuck up.

>you will never own a copy of Storiella As She Is Syung
Why live?

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>people will imply this isn't basically an admission of trolling

Only two more IQ points and you could understand it user, oh really this is so sad :(

Also important to note is that the last line is a reference to the Bible. "I began to despise him in my heart," or something similar to that. Which is the feeling Michal is overcome with when David returns with the ark of the covenant, after having killed her father Saul. The narrator of The Encounter essentially becomes disillusioned with his childhood friend after have experienced the darker, more adult side of the world. A profound hatred starts to take hold of him as his friend, much like David, appears childlike and uncaring in the eyes of someone who has just been deeply affected by his actions.

Are you Brazilian?

I very much like this image, may you tell me about its source?

good post user, liked and shared

Yeah but if you can’t say what that something is then you’ve said a whole lot of nothing.