Be me

This

Write the essay in a tone that is somewhat skeptical rather than argumentative. If you are serious about university then the ass kissing points alone are worth it. Basically give him easy ways to try and argue with you by making them "teaching moments". You don't have to believe him if you don't want, but don't argue if you can't win.

Read this, kid.
irishtimes.com/culture/can-science-ever-tell-us-whether-free-will-exists-1.3029041

>have opinion
>professor gives you homework for it

I hope state school doesnt pull this shit

University is there to teach you how to think, and to teach you to think before you speak. Saying a stupid thing or two is fine as long as you don't do it over and over again. Go to office hours and talk to him about it if you're still not convinced.

>you don't have free will because you will either continue this argument or you won't, there is no other choice as i have predicted it
professor fuck off

Should have just called him a boomer and told him to go mow his lawn.

The idea of free will is an abstraction.

develop a more nuanced understanding of free will

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nice

Your only comeback is to write it from a situationist perspective and then present a construction of a situation:
youtu.be/6aqGYYBwKbQ

Does anyone get the joke here? Do you, OP?

How about don’t talk about shit you don’t know about and then you won’t look like a dumbass extraordinaire every time you speak

>do you

youtu.be/FJ6z9oicNjw

Literally everything that you do can be said to be predestined. Are you picking up a cup of coffee? Predestined. Are you going to drink wine tomorrow? Predestined. Will you change your mind and drink water instead? Predestined? It's not hard to grasp at all and your teacher is a fool and so is anyone who believes in muh free will.

If he will concede that the universe is governed by atomic reactions, as he should if he believes in science, then it's easy to prove that everything is predetermined.

There is no way to know either way, because we will never be able to know if we had the ability to do otherwise in any given situation. You got baited friend. Read up on determinism.
Here's an argument for you to use.
Argument for Determinism from Materialism
1.) Human choices are exclusively a function of brain activity.
2.) Brain activity is constrained by rigid natural laws.
3.) Therefore human choices are constrained by rigid natural laws.

29 :3

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Literally everything that you do can be said to be free will. Are picking up a magazine? Free will. Are you going to drink beer tomorrow? Free will. Will you change your mind and drink water instead? Free will? It is not hard to grasp at all and you are a fool and so is anyone who does not believe in my free will.

write that we don't have free will, that our behaviors are governed by survival instincts. all free actions are tethered to an anchor of our mortality. beyond basic self-preservation is our adherence to social contracts, laws, codes of conduct. we inherit a world we know nothing about and developed to adapt to our surroundings by influential institutions, parents, schooling, religion, etc. what about epileptics? do they choose to have seizures? do schizophrenics choose to see malevolence behind every smile? or does free will only exist for well-adjusted, high iq, beautiful, athletic types? brad pitt must have free will, you can't imagine him as a slave to the designs of the demi-urge. scarlett johansson knows what she's about, she's no marionette, she cuts too striking a figure, it's the dozens of heads she turns as she walks down the carpet that are lacking freedom, no? ask your professor if free exercise of the will is something innate or something which must be learned. ask if being governed by your own moral code is still freedom of will since there are self-imposed parameters dictating behavior. your professor sounds like they're full of shit.

if you really have to debate why free will exist you must be retarded
the mere act of choosing to debate the reality of free will is an exercise of free will
everything is free will and everyone that denies that is exercising their free will to act in that way to deny that.

You must be really retarded if you don't get the simple concept of "I'll do this out of my own choice", whether you have few choices, it's still a choice, so it's free will.

all of you faggots gotta just stop taking the kool aid so hard and start thinking like normal people. not everything is that confusing.

Free will is a paradox, it only has meaning in the game of language, nothing can be free as in outside causation but these are all human concepts, they have no bearing with reality.
Yes my post is subject to this as well so it can never be truth, you are not smart for pointing it out

should have called him a cuck

Step 1: Claim that you are god and you imagined the world
Step 2: Claim that every one of his actions was already determined by you, laugh obnoxioiusly
Step: 3: Profit

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Either way you’re screwed. The most probable reality is compatiblism

Butterfly.... please....

>nothing can be free as in outside causation
How do you know this is really true?

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>free will is real
>depression/addiction/limits on mental capacity is/are real
Choose.

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>our behaviors are governed by survival instincts.
How do you explain those who sacrifice their lives for others?
>all free actions are tethered to an anchor of our mortality.
Suppose that everyone lives forever. How does that change anything?
>adherence to social contracts, laws, codes of conduct.
>institutions, parents, schooling, religion,
These are shaped by the degree society obeys them. They are formed from the interaction of wills.
>what about epileptics?
They make choices.
>do schizophrenics choose to see malevolence behind every smile?
They also make choices.

Free will doesn't exist though. We are all one personality.

>implying depression isn't a choice
>implying drug abuse isn't a choice

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>free will is real
>can't negate the effects of gravity or polymorph into a lizard.
I pick the first one in both cases.

quality post

Just say professor, I can't disprove freewill, but you can't prove it, you idiot. "All I know is that I know nothing," and if you don't know that by this point you are a fool, nay, worse than a fool, because you teach two hundred little sponglings a year with that smug coping tone, so you can make 18 year old female npc's wet and tell yourself you are important and matter. You are pathetic, seppuku won't even save you anymore.

Will is free... to do what? Your options are limited by your nature, and that's just the presets before limits of lived experience come into play.

child

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>you can't prove it
What if he can? What if he does so every time he makes a choice of some kind?

Causally

The nineteenth century called. They want their physics back.

That wouldn't prove he is free, that would conditionally prove that he acts.

Free will means you believe you're free of constraints. And that's ridiculous and immature, mindset of a teenager.

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The documented existence and successes of Behavioral Therapy and various forms of brainwashing prove free will doesn't exist. Jesus, even advertising does it. Tell someone Budweiser is the king of beers enough times and Budweiser will actually start to taste better.

But if a cult leader or a KGB colonel can brainwash you, there's no such thing as free will. The techniques are pretty well understood but it's one of those things nobody wants to think about.

Further reading: Beyond Freedom & Dignity by B.F. Skinner

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Why give so called objective reality preeminence over mind in the first place? Perhaps the relationship between a seemingly conscious being and the universe in which he exists is more complex. Whose to say that the mind begins in the brain and who is to say it ends outside yourself.

That does not mean their is no free will. It means others can impose their will on you even without you knowing.

If time does not exist then how does fate? We are constrained by nothing but our own limitations of perception.

You are literally making a tangent point from my argument for me. I completely agree we can't deduce either position, so in conclusion, we can't prove or disprove freewill, the whole argument is a game to entertain ourselves, and I personally have ceased to be entertained by circle-jerking professors who think their brains are ~~God's~~ gift to humanity.

>If time does not exist then how does fate?
Where did anyone say anything about time not existing. Or "fate"?

what the fuck

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>professor coerces you into arguing against free will
I get you

We can't prove or disprove free will by simply arguing about it but it is fun and far from pointless. Eventually someone is going to get so sick of this that they dedicate their lives to finding the answer in some repeatable physics experiment and that will be a victory for everyone. Until that day I take up the cause of free will.

>physics experiment to find the answer
wew lad

When people say free will does not exist they usually mean to say we are ruled by fate. The deterministic clockwork universe grew out of the Greeks and their dramas.

>It means others can impose their will on you even without you knowing.

How exactly is there free will if someone else can program you, using a well-understood method of conditioning, to act or believe any way they want? It just means what you think is "free will" is just the effect of thousands of little conditioned responses that you've acquired over the years.

>"scientifically proven"

as if there was some fucking science god who proclaimed science truths that all scientists unanimously agreed upon

that's not how science works my dude. there are many different scientists, who can draw many very different conclusions looking at the exact same set of experimental results. science is rife with folks who want to sensationalize their work and say "my work proves this!", to get their name out there, to try and earn respect for themselves, to try to make money, to try to be featured in news articles, in mainstream conversations...... and there are many talking-head pundits who want to feature other people's experiments, draw their own conclusions, and say "this means THIS!" - for similar reasons, and similar motivations

scientists are not infallible. this whole idea of them being some kind of model, perfect humans that are 100% objective because, well, "science", is actually not true at all. there's a lot of ego games going on. turns out the science community is full of the exact same kind of bullshit that EVERY other kind of community in the intellectual realm or otherwise is filled with - they are not excused. you have to actually look at the DATA they themselves were looking at see whether or not the conclusions they drew were actually the most likely to be true, or whether they were even accurate at all - or whether they actually considered all the alternative explanations, or if they were being motivated because they WANTED to believe something, or, they wanted to get their name out there

>compatiblism
interesting. worth looking into. thanks for this

>How exactly is there free will if someone else can program you
The person programmed you out of their own free will.
>just the effect of thousands of little conditioned responses that you've acquired over the years.
It is possible to make a completely random decision that, given the use of a time machine, would play out differently in any number of time lines. It is also possible to base a decision on a deterministic system such that your choice is always the same. It is also of course possible to be influenced by your habits but his does not mean their is no free will.

I haven't said anything about determinism. Are you having an argument inside your head or here? Good luck with the windmills.

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Not him, but it's pretty obvious to me -- can I strap you into a chair and, with the aid of a brainwashing professional (or just a talented amateur), completely change your mind on various things? Even to the point where you'll willingly kill yourself if I ask you to? The answer's been proven over and over to be yes, so there you go.

It's not really a big surprise. Before gravity was understood, people thought objects fell to the ground because of "impetus" -- that they actually WANTED to be on the ground, and rushed toward it if not stopped. Same with basically every other natural phenomenon -- all were explained to be the result of the animus or will of whatever it was.

Human psychology's just the last field to actually get a cold-eyed scientific look.

Lack of free will does not imply determinism. There can still be events based purely on random chance.

the fuck's free will then? some random (therefore meaningless) impetus from beyond the universe? what makes it you, free, and willful then?

>The person programmed you out of their own free will.

This is unlikely, because programming/brainwashing works. If I can brainwash you, you are not the single human being in the world without free will. Nobody has it. Funny fact, a brainwashed person is exactly as confident in their own free will as a normal person. They think they're in absolute control of their actions and opinions.

>It is possible to make a completely random decision that, given the use of a time machine, would play out differently in any number of time lines.
>sci-fi nonsense

We're talking applied psychology bro

>It is also of course possible to be influenced by your habits but his does not mean their is no free will.
>their

If you can be brainwashed, you have no free will. What you call "free will" is just the interaction of literally thousands of conditioned responses creating more influences than your mind can keep track of. We know this because you can override them and program people to do and believe essentially whatever you want.

>if I don't understand why something happens, it's because some undefinable mysterious force caused it!

lmao

>>Free will means you believe you're free of constraints. And that's ridiculous and immature, mindset of a teenager.
>>constraints
What constrains free will besides fate? Certainly not >>depression/addiction/limits on mental capacity is

Randomness and meaning are not exclusive. Free will is the ability to make choices and pursue goals.

Precisely. In conscious agents we call that mysterious force free will.

I predict this will piss you off, your logic is awfully hollow my dude, not very well thought out. you need to watch some derren brown if you really want to learn about hypnotism, what you are even talking about. to get someone to do something that they normally wouldn't want to do, you have to first convince them using their pre-existing beliefs that those beliefs align with the thing you want them to do. of course beliefs are a whole other issue, but at the end of the day, you have to make someone think they are doing something that they want to do, so that in the moment when it comes time for them to do it, they CHOOSE to do it

it's worth noting what is really at the root of a lot of the free will debate, and it has to do with the bigger issue of the materialist viewpoint of reality - that the CURRENTLY observable physical universe, and it's atoms and molecules and their interactions, are responsible for EVERYTHING that ever happens in our universe. this is ALSO not conclusively scientifically proven ANYWHERE, but if you tell people it is for long enough, everybody starts to think it is, and they don't question it (kind of going along with what you are talking about with brainwashing).... you can change people's ideas of reality based on you posturing authority about an issue, and then the choices they make based on that image of reality, can still be ultimately up to them.

lel impetus of the mind

"The world, marm," said I, anxious to display my acquired knowledge, "is not exactly round, but resembles in shape a flattened orange; and it turns on its axis once in twenty-four hours."

"Well, I don't know anything about its axes," replied she, "but I know it don't turn round, for if it did we'd be all tumbled off; and as to its being round, any one can see it's a square piece of ground, standing on a rock!"

"Standing on a rock! but upon what does that stand?"

"Why, on another, to be sure!"

"But what supports the last?"

"Lud! child, how stupid you are! There's rocks all the way down!"

Brain washing all the way down. If everyone is brainwashed then no one is brainwashed and so free will is exercised by the lot of us until the tidal wave of carries our most immediate selves away and placing a new self in it's place.

>hypnotism

Hypnotism isn't brainwashing. Hypnotism is more of a LARP than an actual psychological process. Brainwashing/operant conditioning/behavioral conditioning is an entirely different thing, and if you think it has anything to do with hypnosis, you're sadly uninformed.

Go pick up a copy of Beyond Freedom & Dignity and have a read.

>f everyone is brainwashed then no one is brainwashed

You realize that this is literally as wrong as it's possible to be

God is a germ. The universe only exists because living things are here to see it.

still, we are talking about modifying people's choices - but what you are actually doing first is modifying the data in their minds, to the point of which it would be only rational that they make the choice that you want based on the data that you want them to have. it doesn't mean they ultimately still don't have free will.

also, its possible for people to act unconsciously much of the time, or most of the time even - and for most people on earth to live like this. but that doesn't mean that conscious free will still does not exist anywhere, ever, if chosen to be exercised

Who is imposing this system then? Why does its mere potential existence negate free will?

Constraints that people try to work around every day, that you can be stupid and lazy. Maybe you know you want to be a writer but can't make yourself sit down and write your magnum opus. You'd rather watch youtube and browse Yea Forums, you have ADHD. With your free will, you'd sit your ass down and do it, write day and night and will out the most beautiful prose. And then there is the higher meta-constraints, like why would you even want the things you want in the first place, money or fame or spiritual advancement. Why? And why one and not the other, why do people want these particular things everywhere -- out of their collective free will? lol. And if you're born a sub 100 IQ nigger, you simply can't; can't choose right, can't act right.

Reality is a maze of all these walls and you're just feeling the walls and the corridors, and think that
"Hey, I can go this way, so it must be because of my free will."
Free will is a dumb idea.

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Man only has so much free will and that is distributed throughout the totality of your being. Those things are you as much as anything else and they are part of what you really want.

imagine thinking that we have free will lmao

good argument user ;)

It is sort of a mission but really it is Frodo's mission and none can help him too directly or the thing will fail. It is also close to being a quest but they are not searching for something but seeking to remain hidden. To call it a thing is about as accurate as you can get in so many words.

What kind of npc materialist are you to be against free will lmao. Why athiests have taken to make this their battle to die on I don't know.

free will is not physically possible. it's over.

I'm an atheist and believe in free will but I wouldn't say anyone is "against" free will so much as that is how the world looks to some.

Free will is physically possible. IT IS BEGUN.

Anyone willing to give a quick rundown of compatibilism?

>I can't argue for free will but would like to hold on to the idea

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>compatibilism
a cope

You can use that as an argument in favor

it's just a language game

I should have said "some," there's these funny Sam Harris types that are laughed out of classrooms everywhere, just like OP.

Now if OP really wants, he could turn this thing on its head by apologizing the way he went about this and take it as a serious opportunity to get close to the professor and show you're serious by crafting a well-made essay. This will require a lot of work and some intelligence. I think conceding is the wiser choice. Confess you messed up and learned your lesson. If you don't without reason that's just elementary and not a good sign.

use some kind of circular argument in class tomorrow and wait for the eagle to fly in

What kind of fucking retard believes in free will?

We have a brain that has been shaped by our genes and environment before we are even old enough to have a strong sense of self. Even before we grt to arguments of free will, our freedom of thought is so greatly limited. Then, you have this chemical biolgical computer in your head sloppily performing projections that are then translated into action. You may be concious of this going on and have the illusion yoi control it but WHERE IS THE PROOF? People who believe in free will have to prove there is some spiritual and unknown mechanism that is going on externally from what is physically observable.

Like God, the scope of what free will is shrinks until proponates are just clutching at straws.

Christcuck

Free will and the illusion of free will be e the exact same consequences.

>no knowledge of epigenetics

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I'd revise that: don't argue confidently on matters you don't know about as if you did know about them.

You can speak, just acknowledge your ignorance.

based

write an essay committing every logical fallacy imaginable about how it's pre-determined that you'll fuck his wife, or something like that. dont forget pictures for extra page count and this place in your sources.

Start with defining free will in a self-consistent and intellectually satisfying manner, and then we can talk about whether it exists or not.

The theory of relativity heavily implies a deterministic universe. You are your world-line.

this
trying to get into this discussion with someone who is probably more articulate, and certainly more well read on this than you is a game you can't win

I doubt he even really believes in "free will" even in that spooked compatibilist sense, you just got baited

I think he will respect you for being the one to speak up though, so don't worry

Write the essay OP.
Take this as a fun challenge, it'll get you close to the teacher.
Most of the relationships I have with my teachers were built upon me sperging out, feeling silly afterwards and then decided to actually write the things I argue for/against and share those written out sperg-outs with my teacher.
It can really help you to deal with all kinds of bullshit, to be somewhat close to your teachers.
Earns you both responsibilities and freedoms.
Disregarding the possible social-ostracization by your peers, it's alright being bit of an eccentric (sperg).

>decided
>should be deciding
What other mistakes are there in my post?
Trying to sharpen my English-language skills, not a native speaker.

When did r*ddit brainlets invade this board

what the fuck is free will? our will is never free, we dont have the option to grow wings and fly right now

>what the fuck is free will?
agency or mobility

Anti free will person: Laws of physics, start of the universe to us, it's all physics

Cowardly compatibility: Yeah, I know that's what we all see free will to be... But what if we ignore that and define "free" in social terms? Wouldn't that let us discuss all sort of shit and publish papers and books?

OMG I LOVE SCIENCE XXDDD

You say that free will implies a separate self but there is no such thing only reality moving and then you get laughed out of the auditorium.

I had the opposite experience. I was a stem major in a philosophy class where one day we argued if we had free will, the entire class was one-sided that "freewill dont real, stupid. Because determinism and science." I tried arguing for free will by saying that determinism is unprovable, there are random qualities in nature, and even if randomness isnt real it feels as though we have self direction but I was eventually silenced by a dog pile of people asserting what they thought was the smartest opinion to bolster their egos.

Just use some naive phenomenonolgy to BTFO him

>but free will just is real, I feel like I have free will!

He literally can’t respond, because he feels like he has free will too.

All that means is that you weren’t a big enough Chad to convince them

god says we have free will, therefore; we have free will. checkmate sophist.

You sub-90 IQs think simply saying "Free will doesn't exist" or "Time doesn't exist" without any reasoning makes you intelligent or deep. It doesn't. I'm glad he made a fool of you.