Is self improvement a meme?

No, it's legit.

Depends where you look. There's a lot of low quality information put out to make a quick buck.

But developing your character is definitely not a meme. It's a lifelong endeavor and being aware of the process can make you progress through it much more effectively.

what a smelly faggot you are

Only in the goal of becoming a persuaded individual.

Yes, in the sense that everything is a meme,
No, in the sense that you probably meant, but you must also ask yourself to what end you are doing this whole self improving thing.

fuck dude i love seeing you around, you just keep going dont you its absolutely insane i love it man just keep it i very much aenjoy all your being here unfortunately i

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You sound like a lazy fat ass.

My point was not to suggest that we should all sit still and endure our bad habits. Rather my point is that self improvement does not make sense unless it knows to what end it is improving. Which way is up or down? How do you know? What principles or ideas should guide our efforts to improve the self?

You cannot know what "improvement" means without knowing what your life is for.

1. being 50yo and having to spend substantial time at the doctors waiting room because you feel pain in your back is a waste of time (and painful)
2. trying to be more healthy reduces the chance of ending up with 1.
3. therefore, trying to be healthy is good

Sure, there all kinds of potential pathological issues associated with setting any goal - but all in all it's clear that trying to improve will tend to prevent overtly bad circumstances.
As soon as you narrow that word, "self improvement", down a bit, it is likely to not be a bad idea.

Yes

>but all in all it's clear that trying to improve will tend to prevent overtly bad circumstances.

Death is certain. Everyone you know will die, many will suffer. Everything you do will be forgotten. Calamities of war, famine and plague are possible, certain in a global context. Face up to what the world is.

dude shrooms lmao

>never do anything ever because it will end

Yes. In capitalism can't be self-improvement without oppression.

Yes

What a vain thing to say.
Good is good. The impermanence of the good is irrelevant. Impermanence is a call to action, not an argument against it.

the only self improvement you need is Montaigne, Aristotle, Jocko Willink, and a 54+ lb kettlebell for soviet weight training. everything else is a fucking meme, yes.

What about becoming less capitalist?

See
There is nothing new under the sun, and all is vanity, is the appropriate usage of the word, not egoism. See Samuel Johnson "The Vanity of Human Wishes."

There is no direction without a compass.

Yes

>There is nothing new under the sun, and all is vanity, is the appropriate usage of the word, not egoism.
Isn't learning this improvement?

Greeks did all of it better.

Yes, I think it is improvement. For me yo argue why, I would need to say what I think is the purpose of human life (not immediately relevant here), and then to show that learning this wisdom puts one closer to that purpose.

You cannot argue that a thing constitutes improvement without making reference to a broader purpose.

This is something of an oversimplification, but it suffices to communicate the gist.

Self improvement and self help culture typically occur in a vacuum of inquiry: the broader suppositions of a society are assumed and not investigated.

Hence people on Yea Forums, for example, largely seek to make the kind of improvements that will increase the likelihood of getting a girlfriend. The assumption is that decreasing loneliness and unhappiness in life is the point, an idea which is essentially Americanism in a nutshell, and would have satisfied both Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson.

>You cannot argue that a thing constitutes improvement without making reference to a broader purpose.
Who is arguing this? This statement is self-evident.
Frankly, without stating what you think that purpose is, your posts here amount to nothing more than pretentious waffling.

memes are self improvement tools.

Okay, so we agree. My point is that "self improvement" as a disembodied system of techniques for changing the self but that it does not bother to investigate what the change should be towards, and instead assumes the purpose of life implied by the society in which it occurs.

So in America all self improvement is about being happier, healthier, wealthier, less anxious, more socially prosperous etc.

I should add that these efforts, in a cosmos which guarantees death and the occurence of natural and historical calamities, to say nothing of icicles falling into the skulls of passersby, or political injustice, will only lead to despair.

I think the purpose of life is to know and to love God, which I state at the risk of being dismissed.

yes. ive done it all. had a 6 pack, perfect diet, no fap, meditation etc

it wont save you from a mental condition. only people who were sheltered and never felt true sickness will say otherwise

>Everyone you know will die

Not me lol

This is not an argument to prevent suffering.

If it's snowing and freezing outside, I'll put on gloves. By your logic, you could just as well not put on any gloves after standing up and walking to the supermarket in your pajamas, because after all there's suffering in life.

Like a woman on cock carousel?

I think it is often very good to avoid suffering or lessen it, for ourselves or others. I too wear gloves.

A better example of where you and I differ is probably euthanasia of the elderly. The relief of suffering is not the ordering principle of the human life. It is not the north star by which all acts are measured against.

I invoked the inevitability of suffering not to suggest that it is generally not worth trying to lessen, but to use it as an invitation to look deeper. We won't have paradise on Earth. What then shall we look for?

What is God?
What does love of God entail?

Is this Donal Logue?

Protip: everything is a meme
=3

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Growing is life. Stagnation is death. If you stop improving yourself then you might as well lie down in a hole in the ground and wait for your death, because you are a walking corpse waiting to fall over. At the same time everything is fleeting and you will never be perfect. At some point your body will fall apart faster than you can improve things. That's not the point, trying to get there is the point. People are happy and fulfilled when they strive towards a goal and improve things, that's just human nature. Once they stop doing this they get depressed and die.

in a useless kinda sense, yeah

I agree that improving yourself for some end is in vein but that doesn’t mean it’s not important. Life is about living, if you are unhealthy, depressed, alone then you aren’t experiencing life at any where nears its potential. I’m not saying that means claiming a mountain or being success, just being present and embracing everything with love.

I do not feel like I am one to explain these things to you, for I am barely able to say so in my own words to myself.

Certainly you could look plenty of places if you were sincere in answering those questions.

Consider yourself dismissed

Nice meme, you're right I think.

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What do I care to be dismissed by someone who dismisses a commitment to their own learning and would ask a complete stranger on Yea Forums what the meaning of following God is?

Go read Augustine, stop being a fool.

Don't preach of something you can't defend tripfag

So, your comments are just pretentious waffling.
You've got nothing.

Fine, have the draft I previously decided to rescind.

I would be kidding myself if I claimed to know exactly what God is and what loving him entails.

That being said, there is a large component of these questions which is not mystical or mysterious. I offer my thoughts on this latter category, with the caveat of the first.

God is the unseen manifestor outside of all space and time, the thing which answers the question "why is there existence instead of nothingness?" This is the God of the Abrahamic faiths as well as the God of the philosophers, the deists the Platonists and the Epicureans.

Additionally, God is the one who charters human destiny (like the gods of Olympus), but he does so with love (unlike the Gnostic or Epicurean versions).

How do we know this? We do not, at least not in the same way we know gravity acts on objects in inverse proportion to the square of the distance between them. Nor in the way we know George Washington is the first president.

The human person is not merely a mind, or a body, or a disembodied consciousness floating in the veil of maya. The human person is a body, a mind, and a heart. Heart or soul denotes the deepest aspect of the person, the one which perceives things outside of the naturalism of the sciences. It is the seat of the image of God and it is aware of truths revealed to it which can only vaguely be translated into the language of the mind's thought. It is deeper than the subconscious (or Freuds 19th century variant of the Olympian gods). Its existence is known to itself and cannot be proven by science or reason, though reason (and thus science) cannot exist without it. I suspect it is the place which gives rise to such fundamental axioms as the law of identity, and perhaps even the rest of Aristotelean logical axioms, along with the ability to comprehend basic mathematical objects such as natural numbers.

Following God involves prayer, transmission of tradition and sacred rites, knowledge and scripture, membership in a community of followers guided in a particular way by God. It involves the training of the soul and mind so that the body no longer does what is not the will of God, and the transformation of the person into a willing beacon of Gods will, presence and love for humankind. There is both an external/exoteric and an internal/esoteric dimension, related but distinct, as body and soul, for example.

So, you just gotta feel it? What is that training and how do you determine what God wants?

So you're saying I should stop reading books?

Consume products then buy more products. If book is product then book okay. You don't need to read book. Don't improve self, you perfectly good product consumer.

no, but eastern spirituality is

but yeah you can continue believing in the shekel begging masturbatory words of someone who advocates for pantheism but then dies in his sleep due to having a shitty lifestyle/shitty genetics

looks like Pan didn't give too much fucks about your well being there champ

oh well i guess you could always meditate your way out of oblivion

God guides all persons at all moments. It is not easy or obvious. He does not (usually) speak to us through a prophets mouth or an angel. God, unbounded by any constraints of human knowledge, speaks sometimes as a mountain glimpsed in the fog, or an owl hooting three times in the night, as the pain of sickness in our bodies, or the suffering of the soul in mourning, also in the touch of a lover's hands, the taste of grain, the tiredness at days end, the fear of morning, and so forth.

Man is to live "Not on bread alone, but on every utterance from the mouth of God"

The meanings of these things is never entirely clear. I think we generally get better at interpreting them as our vision expands with spiritual progress.

That's a very strange way to put it, the most important thing is to pray. Prayer is faith hope and love all at once, and a dose of humility. We will never be God though part of the us, in ignorance, wishes to be. The evil part of us wants the admiration of mankind, the knowledge of God, the power of God over all things.

We are creatures, contingent beings with belly buttons creeping over the earth towards certain death, in near total blindness. God calls us to him in friendship and love.

Got no faith? Pray for it. Can't tell where your soul is? Pray to learn. Don't know what to do? Pray for wisdom on which way to go.

How does that work out for you? Can you understand what God wants? Are you happy?

I'm new to this man, very new. The ideas have been there for a long time but I'm only starting to "practice." I am happier than I have been for a long time, more at peace with who I am (and am not), less worried about trying to make some kind of big splash in the world. Old habits are more and more easy to let go of, especially drinking, which I did daily for several years. I dont think my own happiness is the point though. I know life is easy now and that great sadness will come as it goes on. That is part of life too and God is there in the sorrow. Ideas about faith become more clear with time. I do not need to, and also am not able to, answer all the questions I ask, but I think God gives each of us the ability to find all the answers we need to.

>it wont save you from a mental condition.
It can help.

Self-improvement, no. Self-help (books), yes.

You're missing the point, you're still viewing this in the "me vs the world" western frame of mind, where the individual is a visitor struggling against nature rather than a part of it.

No

Mu

In what way? Since life is an endless process of becoming without ever actually being, you're never going to improve yourself into some sort of final complete form. That said, there's plenty to be said for becoming more virtuous, capable, healthy, educated, etc.

I'm not "viewing" it as anything, just stating the facts. We struggle against nature whether we want to or not; it's called food and shelter.

No, but a lot of “self-improvement” is geared solely towards getting laid or making lots of money or fitting in with your peer group or other gay shit

>Chasing a more balanced brain chemical function is a meme
Beyond retarded OP

>Self improvement in the way of "Subtle art of giving a f*ck"
Yes it is a meme
>Self improvement in the way of going to the gym/reading (decent books)/learning a language/studying etc etc
No it is not a meme

>yes
Way to out yourselves as stagnant, bitter underachievers.
It is real, it is doable, and it is practical. All you need are the important selfs: self-control, self-discipline, and accountability (for yourself). If Mom or anyone else but you has to work on any of these for you then you are doing it wrong

>self-control, self-discipline, and accountability
i dont have any of these, so i cant improve myself
checkmate

Where is this?

Then you should start by getting those

Food and shelter really aren't that hard to come by for someone who's been raised to understand nature and live off it. It's just that us moderns have been so removed from nature for so long that we can't imagine coming across food and shelter as anything but a thankless struggle to the death (perhaps as a projection of our own lived experiences in post-industrial civilisation.)

The only improvement most of you can hope for is the slow realization that you fundamentally incapable of meaningful change

Angsty teenager tier opinion. Of course we will all die and we might suffer, it doesn't mean we shouldn't improve our circumstances while alive. Do you also not wipe you ass after taking a shit because you will shit again?

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Yes, but it's better than doing anything else outside of enlightenment.

Watts mentions that Self-improvement is unimportant on the basis that those that need it have already positioned themselves in a state that requires improving. Therefore stuck in a state of lacking something.. however if they didn't think these thoughts then they would be essentially "complete". He argues towards a state of indifference towards self-improvement.. or an effort of giving up.. And if they don't take this route they will get stuck in the thought process of attempting to rid the urge to improve out of their head - which in itself is an attempt towards self-improvement. Also the real trick is giving up the urge to give up.

What I find funny though is that if you had an urge to improve in the beginning state and follow through with Watts advice after knowing above.. is that in-turn an effort to improve ones self as they will consider Watts advice as the best possible scenario. Perhaps prior to knowing this information Alans advice would be useful if they followed through with it on their own intention.. however to someone that doesn't already carry a state of indifference to self improvement then it is essentially useless.

I am thinking the only course forward is following whatever your nature is currently.. If you have the urge to improve then improve (even if you are one to fail again and again - embrace the struggle even if it means never achieving anything), if not then don't bother with improvement.

You don't need an end, while it's nice to have one in a sense it doesn't matter.
As a dog is wont to lick its own arse and sniff piss, so is a human's primary instinct to generate meaning through a creation of a value hierarchy generating motivation to move towards a hypothetical ideal future and to create. This fundamental drive is what birthed society and the economy.

It is your imperative to transform yourself, you don't get a choice in it. If you don't take that task up willingly it'll happen anyway and you'll probably suffer for it. You'll suffer regardless but you should at least mitigate that to as great an extent as possible

After some reflection lately I decided to incorporate prayer into my life. I don't practice or observe any religion however although I see and feel the value of prayer in spite of that. This is why I decided to practice it.

What do you pray for? When I pray I give gratitude for the people I have in my life and the circumstances that I find myself in. I want to make sure I never take any of this for granted when someday it will be gone forever.

Yes. "Improved" people all gravitate towards the same end. Falling further into dark pursuits and depravity makes one more interesting, which is of far more worth than being yet another generic "contributing member of society". I'd rather live amongst devils than in a church group.

Well, unless you own the MoP yourself you're merely a cuck. A capitalist cuck. 99% of people are capitalist cucks that falsely call themselves capitalists.

found the anti-capitalist fool. If you think surviving without the benefits of food imports is so easy, then try it. And also try living without heating and air conditioning. And cold water showers.

Nothing is more real than struggle. You're not alive if you aren't changing and improving.

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I feel like self-improvement should just be replaced with "getting to know and understand yourself better", because that's all there really is to it and no amount of motivational quotes and inspiring speeches will ever get you any closer to that, it all starts from taking yourself seriously and being honest with yourself. I think this is why Peterson is so widely successful in motivating 20yo doomers despite being a hack, he mostly encourages people to ask hard questions and to not give up. That's an important process

>human's primary instinct to generate meaning through a creation of a value hierarchy generating motivation to move towards a hypothetical ideal future and to create. This fundamental drive is what birthed society and the economy.

So all value hierarchies are arbitrary and you have no way of arguing for the superiority of one over another?

How does cooperation form (where people share a value hierarchy to some extent)?

Self-improvement as a goal by itself is a meme.

As a necessary and inevitable result of following a meaningful path? Not a meme.

>meaningful path
What would that be

Zen

What for