The absolute state of the classics

>In the hope of making my position clearer—that race should not be a determining factor when it comes to assessing the value of scholarship—I said to Padilla, “You may have got your job because you’re black, but I’d prefer to think you got your job because of merit.”

lmao

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I thank God for independent scholars—the top prof at Harvard, Karen King, tried to cap her career with the Gospel of Jesus’s Wife, but Coptic experts HUMILIATED Harvard
gay Columbia prof did the same thing—used his position to argue Jesus and the Apostles were all gayer than a barrel of monkeys on nitrous oxide—Morton Smith
Classics are under attack, can’t wait to see the battles

Academia is a left wing think tank intent on bringing all aspects of human existence in line with their agenda.

where can i find stats on cuts to humanities departments?

Princeton is looking worse—ridiculous (I read it)
if elite schools are like this, fuck em

based anime poster

I can see why smart people laugh at the Ivy League
but if we abandon the Classics...
Karen King and Morton Smith take the seats then use intimidation to rewrite the Bible and the Classics
if there weren’t Coptic scholars, King would have passed off her Gospel of Jesus’s Wife
and her humiliation is the funniest thing I ever read, the dumb bitch

I really think The only solution to these issues are movements of folk scholarship dedicated to authentic interaction with the subject matter used to challenge academic hegemony. I think most of the humanities could benefit from such a development.

That article about the Gospel of Jesus' Wife was one of the best reads of the last few years.

Yes!
Princeton, King, Smith have jet fuel—their secret goal of destroying the very thing it took them years to master
if there weren’t independent experts of these ancient languages, we’d have a new Gospel, and Jesus would have a wife, or we’d say Jesus and the Apostles were homosexuals per Morton Smith

everyone should read it—Karen King has the oldest academic seat in America and tried to pull a fast one
she earned herself a spot in Hell

this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but with an amusing anime dance

>2019
>competition

are you a fucking boomer? leave

>It is important to stand up for Classics as a discipline, and promote it as the political, literary, historical, philosophical, rhetorical, and artistic foundation of Western Civilization, and the basis of European history, tradition, culture, and religion. It gave us the concepts of liberty, equality, and democracy, which we should teach and promote. We should not apologize for our field

Why are classicists so weird? Like, if I'm a history PhD who studied the Northern Crusades, I wouldn't need to couch my justification for my research in some sense of Baltic or Christian nationalism. It's a historical research, it's better if I'm *not* so intimately tied up in my identity with the research subject. Classics are a really important historical field in art, philosophy, and history generally, which is the justification for its study. But this "Classics are the underpinning of our great Western Civilization!" sounds way too close to nationalist historians create unreliable historical analyses that rest in an assumption of their own importance that later historians have to take apart and try and tease out bettter work.

The rest of the classicists at this talk sound also shitty and weird but from the other direction of course, but we all would agree on that.

The problem is finding people who want to approach it seriously instead of just want to grind an ax in the opposite direction.

this is hard to listen to, fuuuuuuck

fair enough
if you look at King and Smith, their positions were ridiculous, but they were arguably the most powerful people in their field and it was very intimidating

this woman is so weird. "Cicero has value" as if Classics majors at major universities aren't reading Cicero or Homer... Like why is she trembling with brave fear that some survey course meant for STEM kids on "classics" is really just myths, or that universities offer courses of classics in translation for non-Classics majors?

Of course the black guy just launched into some white supremacy bullshit right after her though. Classicists really are retarded.

I'm not him, but even people who just want an ax to grind in the other direction would be an improvement on the status quo.

I feel that you are too optimistic but nevertheless I agree too.

>this woman is so weird. "Cicero has value" as if Classics majors at major universities aren't reading Cicero or Homer...

I believe her fear is that some people want the Classics to abandon Cicero and Homer.
This is not an unfounded fear.

>asking why so many students wrote their dissertations on great works of classical Greek and Latin literature, instead of topics like indigenous writing in the Americas and technical writing
I thought that "classical studies" where the study of classical antiquity, why the fuck would you study "indigenous writing of the Americas" in your classical studies ?

I hate Americans, they have to make everything about race and gender. I love the Classics. I might be a white male but I am from a country that has nothing to do with classical antiquity. I don't read authors from my country, even though I love my country, because they're shit. I just like the classics.

You're the classical Uncle Mot.

She is basically saying that it is important to study Classical Greek and Rome because they are (or more accurately used to be) the foundation of our society. There is nothing wrong with this.

americanism is an identity of narcissism. why in their crusade for inclusiveness do they never consider including voices of other nationalities? inclusion ends at america's borders. this whole ameri-centric front is just pure chauvinism, it exists in a bubble.

A time is coming when the only people that will study Greek will be Christian seminarians. And no one will know Latin because Catholicism doesn't bother with it anymore.

what the fuck is her problem? She complains about UCDavis intro to classics just being myths and not enough Homer but of course it does include Homer and Hesiod. If she thinks there's not defense of western civilization, where I went (UCSD) the fucking main intro humanities course (Humanities 1) is literally "The Foundations of Western Civilization: Israel and Greece" where you have to read the Old Testament, Homer, Plato, Aristophanes, etc.

She's complaining about a phenomenon (that Classics courses don't teach classics?) that doesn't exist, which of course just irritates the self-righteous pricks on the panel, but I was also pretty irritated listening to her.

>She is basically saying that it is important to study Classical Greek and Rome because they are (or more accurately used to be) the foundation of our society.
And they do... Like the only thing taught in Classics departments is Classical Greek and Roman.

>There is nothing wrong with this.
It's exactly why we study them: they are foundational and vital to the history of philosophy, art, politics, etc. None of that requires exalting them in a bizarre way like Classicists always do ("Great books" is such a retarded term).

In any case Christianity and theology are more important to Western civilization and history than Greek writers who were mostly just read by some isolated monks for a millennium after the Roman empire collapsed.

I did my undergrad in classics quite a while ago and none of this ideological baggage was anywhere to be found. My guess is that it is a more recent development, and likely a response to the alt-right lionization of a specific historiography grounded in a greco-latin Western civilization. Liberal classicists, whether they like it or not, have been implicated in a political struggle for the legacy of the greeks. Of course you have the intersectional crowd that has come to power over the last generation largely as an effect of diversifying hiring quotas, the crowd that wants to dissolve the field entirely for its many and various crypto colonialisms, but then you have more sensible, still liberal professors, who want to preserve the field but feel the push to defend it in the face of right wing appropriation, so you get these truly bizarre positions like the one you pointed out where people are unappologetically asserting nationalist historiography while trying to defend against nationalist historiography

capitalism is an alien parasite which devours the world, leftism infitrates capitalism and devours it in turn

long live death

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>I believe her fear is that some people want the Classics to abandon Cicero and Homer.
>This is not an unfounded fear.
It is. Every classics department at a major university teaches Homer and Cicero. No one is abandoning them, you can't really even abandon much of the Classics anyways, because there's no Greek/Roman alternatives. If she or you or any user could find a major college whose Classics department didn't teach these two, I'd love to see it. Her own stupid example of UCDavis is completely wrong (Homer is part of the first intro course).

>No one is abandoning them, you can't really even abandon much of the Classics anyways, because there's no Greek/Roman alternatives.
Then the field itself should be abandoned. If there's no alternative and the field cannot be diversified and moved away from white male authors, then it's better not to teach it at all.

vandal

What I hate the most is that these ideas are coming to Europe, people are starting to talk more and more about race and gender, forgetting that Spanish and Danes are nothing alike.
You now have people talking about reparation for slavery in countries that never enslaved any Blacks, but were historically bullied by (white) bordering nations. Or freshly arrived immigrants talking about being "historically marginalised", even though the country that is welcoming them didn't have any extra-european immigration until 20 years ago. People who are against mass immigration are literal nazis, even though their country was invaded by the nazis and their grand-parents were killed in the process. I don't owe anything to racial minority whose parents chose to immigrate here, my country has minded its business during all of its history.
I just want it to stop.

Don't worry user, we still have the chad Vedas, the Tattvartha Sutra, Confucius, Sun Tzu etc to teach

>forgetting that Spanish and Danes are nothing alike.
You have a pretty retarded definition of "nothing"

“The people speaking on the panel are cultural vandals, willing to destroy antiquity to conform with their current notions of morality. ISIS members swinging sledgehammers at ancient statues and the people on the panel have the same goal, to make history conform to their notions about how the world operates.”
Which of you guys posted this outline comment?

>gillete.com
wtf

know you’re baiting, but the attempted revision of Jesus and the Classics isn’t objective—the profs actually use the term microaggressions in this story, and they want Jesus to be both gay and have a wife—they get the high perches in academia, then they start rewriting

It doesn't stop.

Right, we need to recontextualize writers like Cicero in a broader field of ancient literature so that they can be properly marginalized and writers of color and other gender identities can be given the spotlight.

damn, that’s good

>classicists
>hey stop caring about the classics
kek, i wonder why if people want to study indigenous writing, why don't they study indigenous writing

i guess that would require actual scholarship, instead of hijacking someone else prestige, and write meme-tier articles nobody cares about

>competing
oh sweaty, that's not how you measure someone's worth

>if elite schools are like this
>if
where have you been the last 5 years

based, we have to save what we can of academia, but it can't be done through academia

hopefully independent scholarship starts spreading

doesn't matter how much they get cut, the humanities will still devour the administration and dictate what STEM can and can't talk about

>as if Classics majors at major universities aren't reading Cicero or Homer...
>Of course the black guy just launched into some white supremacy bullshit right after her though
the point is that that black guy and people following his ideology will dictate the future of the humanities. Intersectionality is unstoppable as a coalition formation project at this moment

The alt-right is an answer to identity politics, not the other way around.

If you look at the people in the article, they are not "90's liberals fighting against "conservative appropriation of the Classics", they are "identity politics liberals fighting against Plato and Epictetus because they were white males".

Haha, that was me! Nothing like hyperbole to fit in with YouTube commenters.

are you from the past? every country is following american gender and racial studies, which is really weird, because some racial dynamics make no sense outside the US, but they are still copy/pasted into other countries as if they did

Oh yeah and humanities is ever so relevant and influential.
Let me ask you this: why are the fields formerly relegated to individuals with power getting flooded with people who are historically disenfranchised?
Because there's no relevance or power left in them. The barbarians are sacking Rome but the Romans left months ago with all the gold and bitches. They moved to STEM and finance.
Most meta-press about the liberal arts is aware of a crisis, they know they basically are a training program to train people in their methods of training without any end-application, they know nobody wants or likes it.
Hence:
chronicle.com/article/There-Is-No-Case-for-the/242724
chronicle.com/article/The-Humanities-as-We-Know-Them/243769
chronicle.com/article/Dear-Humanities-Profs-We-Are/243100
chronicle.com/article/Why-Are-Students-Ditching-the/245163

>It is.
There are many people who want Classics to abandon the Ancient Romans and Greeks to focus on other areas of the world.
I remember someone who was part of Zuckerberg's sister's group arguing "against the wrong notion there was anything great in Ancient Rome or Greece".

>Then the field itself should be abandoned
but then how do we coop the prestige that comes with the name, we want to have our cake and eat it too

PhD in "indigenous studies" does not have the same ring on normie's ears

read my post again brainlet. it's both and.

I'm not him.
You are just moving the goalposts in your attempt to defend the "intersectional mafia"

That's exactly what I am saying, this ideology is spreading throughout Europe, even though it doesn't make much sense in most countries.
Not so long ago (at least in my country) classicists had to study German, since most of the studies on classics were done by German scholars. Why the fuck should they care for some "PoC" from the US ?

successful minorities are basically whites by this point, you can't teach that

You're responding to my first post in this thread.

You said
>likely a response to the alt-right lionization of a specific historiography grounded in a greco-latin Western civilization.

Which is not true.

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The future of STEM is private industry, start ups and public cooperative labs. The university is growing more and more restrictive due to internal politics and sadly I don’t see a remedy appearing anytime soon, these institutions are bankrolled by arts and humanities majors deadset on expanding their intersectional analysis to go whole campus.

A few weeks ago I had to attend seminars on “highlighting LGBT voices in your citations” and “expanding the roles for women in labs” the irony is that our department is 67% female. Also as a gay man I think the LGBT citation stuff is bullshit, let the quality of your work and research speak for itself and don’t rely on the crutch of being a sexual minority.

>Catholics were forbidden to go to university in the anglo world for centuries, no one gives a fuck.
>Some nigger wants so-called "whites" to be forbidden to publish because he was "historically marginalised", everybody claps.

>There are many people who want Classics to abandon the Ancient Romans and Greeks
so then show me a department that has done this? There are many random people who think any old thing you could possibly think, so where is the evidence that this is happening?
At most, some Classics departments include upperclass courses on Indian or Chinese classics, but there's no way you're getting tons of freshman to populate your classes for that and thus no way you're getting funds allocated.

>so then show me a department that has done this?
You are aware an action does not need to have happened for the threat of that action to be credible, right?

I said "there are people who want to do this and she is arguing against them", not "some departments did this".
Moving the goalposts is not nice.

STEM and finance are just pawns for the actual elite, the humanities have always been where the ruling class forms themselves, the humanities getting defunded is actually good for that goal, because then only the actual ruling class can afford to go through that education

having a few rich minorities helps the ruling class have access to the mass of poor minorities, doesn't matter how many "based black men" republicans put up as candidates, or how much fun Trump has with Kanye, they will never reach the mass of minorities that democrats get thanks to having captured the upper classes of each minority group thanks to affirmative action

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it is true. like you said, the rise of right wing historiography was a response to the excesses of leftist postmodern deconstructionism. What I'm saying is that what we are seeing in classics is a further development in that the reasonable people in the field (e.g. the non-intersectionalists, traditional phillogists who also aren't right wing ideologues) are being forced to become political because of right wing nationalist historiography. And the weird thing is the way reasonable classicists are responding to the problem of nationalist historiography is through espousing nationalist historiographies of their own that are only nominally different from those on the popular right.

>Most meta-press about the liberal arts
most of the liberal arts is just scam artists living from stolen prestige from things they didn't do, but pretend to be a continuation of

modern art exists and does its own thing, sometimes good, usually not, but certainly there's no reason to think it's a continuation of actual art in any meaningful sense unless you've been brainwashed from kid

that means the intellectual level of europe is even worse than in the US: copying from a retard is lower than being a retard

>I said "there are people who want to do this and she is arguing against them", not "some departments did this".
>Moving the goalposts is not nice.
You responded to my post which specifically talks about departments.

>You are aware an action does not need to have happened for the threat of that action to be credible, right?
Where is the threat of action? There's a claim to amorphous people, but if its just random people on the internet complaining with absolutely no relation to Classics versus actual people in Classics advocating dropping Homer or Cicero, then it's not really much of a point, is it?

I'm just fascinated by this contradiction in neoliberalism, on the one had ruthlessly downsizing humanities and OTOH cynically co-opting its ideology.

I'm saying this is not true.
If you look at the people in the article, they are not "90's liberals fighting against "conservative appropriation of the Classics".
They are the left-wing crazies that caused the alt-right to appear.

you are wrong about the upper class having anything to do with the liberal arts at this point in time.

STEM is private industry and production, but society and ideology is shaped by the people produced in the humanities, there's a direct line from universities to journalism and government

Private industry is left for last because touching the economy is has too immediate effects and it's very hard to bullshit actual production like you can bullshit other endeavors, but once everything else has fallen industry comes next, it's already happening:
twitter.com/wokecapital

>Where is the threat of action?

Are you fucking blind? Did you not read anything from Padilla, or frankly any of the events this thread is about?

capitalism coopts anything that has a self-amplifying feedback loop, doesn't even need anybody consciously doing it

>western civilisation is a construct
WOAH
And the others aren't. You sold me.

Which was already a move of the goalposts.

Your posts are just a defense of the people who want to do this.

>"Leave them alone, don't criticize them or fight back because they are harmless".

>there's a literal competition to decide what path we shall take
>academics are forced to pick a choice
there's no such thing as neutrality

if you don't think the humanities are producing the current upper class you are delusional: you can check academic papers from 5-10 years ago and see current newspapers and government efforts that are the same word-by-word

the article is critiquing those left-wing crazies you're talking about, but if you go back, the original post I was responding to was by an historian from a normal field who found the author of the article (the one critiquing the left wing crazies, i.e. not a left-wing crazy herself) strange in her embrace of a nationalistic orientation, for example her:

>It is important to stand up for Classics as a discipline, and promote it as the political, literary, historical, philosophical, rhetorical, and artistic foundation of Western Civilization, and the basis of European history, tradition, culture, and religion. It gave us the concepts of liberty, equality, and democracy, which we should teach and promote. We should not apologize for our field

as an historian he didn't understand why classicists needed to say this. My whole point was that people in classics say stuff like that these days because of the political wedge -- you have to defend your field against the deconstructive forces of leftist critique, but you also have to defend your field from alt-right appropriation that repurposes plato to racist and xenophobic ends.

i've been as clear as i can in this post

twitter.com/wokecapital

Greek art is white supremacy and must be stopped.
hyperallergic.com/383776/why-we-need-to-start-seeing-the-classical-world-in-color/

>Are you fucking blind? Did you not read anything from Padilla, or frankly any of the events this thread is about?
mate, nothing this crazy black guy said has to do with not reading Homer or Cicero, he is literally a Classicist who works on ancient Rome. Now he *is* a fanatical leftist who is obsessed with critiquing and insulting his colleagues and insulting the history of his own field of study. But he is *not* saying to stop teaching Ancient Greece and Rome. And no one that I can tell of at this event advocated that. Moving the goal posts is not nice.

So again I ask, show me people in the Classics world who want to abandon teaching the likes of Cicero and Homer? I mean, I'm sure there are some, because there are probably idpol leftists teaching Indian Classics who think they deserve a bigger budget and to take over the department, but I don't know of any so if you do then I'd like to see that.

HE LITERALLY SAID TO CONSIDER ABANDONING THE WHOLE FIELD. HOLY SHIT. YOU OBSTINATE FUCKING TROLL.

>as an historian he didn't understand why classicists needed to say this. My whole point was that people in classics say stuff like that these days because of the political wedge -- you have to defend your field against the deconstructive forces of leftist critique, but you also have to defend your field from alt-right appropriation that repurposes plato to racist and xenophobic ends.

As the original historian you were commenting on, this is a pretty concise and convincing way to put it. I find that when the historian places too much of his identity in the material, whether its a black person trying to make everything about black history or a Paraguayan historian giving a nationalist history of the Paraguayan war, the historical account ends up tainted and future historians have to disentangle the reality from a flawed analysis.

>all the authors you listed are male
Okay, go ahead and list the female Greek authors. What a fucking embarrassment (((academics))) are.

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I just want a bunch of drunk frat bros to storm this meeting with some ridiculous chant doing like an elephant march or something, each guy holding the balls of the guys in front of him.
Imagine dunking on these nerds. I bet being >5'10" in the bars around town after this conference was like a leftist pussy buffet.

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>if white history is white then it must end
BASED ACADEMIC ACHILLES!

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>you also have to defend your field from alt-right appropriation that repurposes plato to racist and xenophobic ends.

why

i wish he didn't put the bombs and kept writing instead, he was quite redpilled

Lol at normies waking up to the sjw question.

Product of the same shit.
Fuck niggers, fuck women, and especially fuck the Chad jannies of intellect.

and go to the website of Princeton Classics—covered in war stories about the “terrible racist event”

Are you a fucking moron? He hates his own field and seems to hate his colleagues. I literally established that. He thinks his colleagues and his field are racists, and this makes him very angry.

He does not say this because of the actual classical authors. He does not have any bone to pick with Cicero in this talk or on his medium post, nor disdain toward Homer or whatever. This is the central point I was making: this isn't evidence that these Classicists are trying to erase certain Classics because of a PC agenda on the ancient authors, but rather they are all arguing with each other about academic politics and sniping their colleagues as racists.

The implication of "We no longer teach Homer and Cicero in our Classics department" which is the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF THIS is not borne out at all.

Lol, you think it would be known otherwise?
(Not justifying it, but in other circumstances no one would have ever heard of this guy. People don't know the much better anti-tech writers.)

KAPPA SIG KAPPA SIG KAPPA SIG KAPPA SIG
FUCKING DEAN KULKARNI WILL NEVER SHUT US DOWN

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I'm a philosophy major, can I become an upper class elite?

I don't agree with her and I don't agree with the retards she was arguing with.

you can be part of its machinery, doesn't mean you'll be at the top

it'll help if you put on a dress though

>He does not have any bone to pick with Cicero in this talk or on his medium post, nor disdain toward Homer or whatever.

Only the most unbelievably charitable reading of this man can lead to such a conclusion. He holds clear and palpable disdain not just for his colleagues but for his objects of study too, and you literally have to be autistic to not notice that. Your assertion that this is merely departmental politics requires one to ignore all subtext. You are willfully ignorant.

if you are a philosophy major you are already part of the elite, same if you are a "digital nomad" or if you "like to travel"

just ignore intersectionality, it will magically go away somehow

I'm a classics undergrad at the moment and the ideology is creeping in. The department does an annual lecture series on the classics, and this year the theme is "diversifying the classics." More of this navel gazing meta-scholarship and such.

It’s been that way since Marcuse taught at Colombia in the 40s. FDR was a shortsighted fool.

>larping as a cardboard age pseudo-male
Wow, you really showed me.

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>for his objects of study too
No he doesn't lol. He doesn't seem to have published a paper on Cicero, but he seems to even give Cicero a leftist thumbs up in some rambling article he wrote about immigrants:

>Characterizing this law and its predecessor from the 120s as designed not only to deny foreigners access to Rome but to deport those already living there (eosque exterminant), Cicero declares in the De officiis that “denying foreigners access to our city is patently inhumane” (3.11.47). Although he managed to successfully defend the poet Aulus Licinius Archias from deportation, Cicero laments in a letter to his friend Atticus that the same law had been deployed, out of spite, to condemn (and presumably deport) a freedman assistant to the politician and former consul Aulus Gabinius after Gabinius beat charges of political corruption... Neither the moral nor rhetorical authority of Cicero could halt the policing and deportation of certain categories of immigrants

It's a fucking terrible article and it's embarrassing he has a professorship... but nothing in his writing suggests he hates the Classical authors. You've just projected that onto him.

Not everything is an argument you fucking autist

classics has historically been an extremely conservative field, and so while english lit, art history, and comparative religions departments were deconstructing themselves into nonexistence in the 1980's, classics held strong. The big hit really came after the 2008 recession that fractured tons of academic hedgefunds. Every classics department in a public university in texas was eliminated over night, the professors shuffled into other departments. I imagine it was the same all over the US. And so now the formerly venerable field is subject to the predatory ideologies that have put chastity cages on the rest of the humanities.

I can't stand these effete bourgeoisie skeptics who speak only of the constructed nature of western civilization. Their historical argument is valid but their total inability to even attempt to come up with anything to replace what they are destroying with is the fountainhead of the very right wing ideologies they are ostensibly battling. Instead of eliminating classical languages, why not teach Greek and Latin side by side with classical Chinese?

>postironic beta power move
WOAH.

>“I think the field would be better served by training a next generation of faculty free and empowered to focus on teaching topics of broader interest.”

i agree with this but it shouldn't usurp greek and latin, i think the greek and latin should be taught because they are the first and then you can go off into whatever direction you want including indigenous people or whatever else

EPSON VS250

>. but nothing in his writing suggests he hates the Classical authors.

Okay then, we are at an impasse, because it's clear to me he looks at the classical authors in about the same way a normal person looks at farm animals. Perhaps hate is too strong a word, but certainly doesn't hold them very highly, merely investigating them in the same way we pull apart a frog for anatomy.

Wrong

>Instead of eliminating classical languages, why not teach Greek and Latin side by side with classical Chinese?
user, you answered the question earlier. For all the complains folks on here make that the leftists are making all the decisions, for most universities it is in fact the brute reality of budgets that makes decisions. Classics departments removed because of budget cuts, Ancient Greek and Latin removed because of budget cuts, etc. No one is going to pinch around the couch cushions and find the money for a Classical Chinese course no matter the ideology.

The Ive Leagues are a bit different of course, and you will often see Sanskrit taught at them (idk about Classical Chinese but maybe). But no one else has the money for this.

The classics aren't doomed. We are witnessing a meiotic break. Enough people get kicked out, they're just going to start their own society with their own values. Of course, if the second society doesn't form then this wouldn't be the first time in history where something "better" has been rejected due to manipulation.

How did it get like this?

>classics has historically been an extremely conservative field
To be fair that depends which country, in mine classics wasn't all that conservative while history especially medievalism was full of unironic white suprematist adjacents, I've heard in other countries its literally the exact opposite.

>Perhaps hate is too strong a word, but certainly doesn't hold them very highly, merely investigating them in the same way we pull apart a frog for anatomy.
Eh that was me picking Cicero because that's what this was about: abandoning Cicero, but it wasn't a real academic article, rather a shitty blog post. He gives your normal philological articles too, including one on Varro that, again, is pretty sympathetic toward Varro.

You invented the whole part where he hates his subject authors.

I unironically pray for right wing death squads.

yes you're right. So I suppose we could do a marxist reading of all the poetic waxing from the left, where not teaching the classical languages and diluting the whole thing into various area studies (ostensibly because of the colonial heritage of the field) is actually just an ideological justification for the brute economic fact that there's just not any money left to fund stuffy philologists.

I really think this whole deconstruction of the humanities is just a dress rehearsal for what is to come when AI and the internet cannibalize our entire education system. Just like how the entire trans issue of today will look prosaic after we see the first real flexing of CRISPR.

>Bond bemoaned the fact that her blog posts did not count towards tenure even though, puzzlingly, she has tenure, or so she told us. She claimed to have written over 170,000 words over the past two years on her own blog and various other blogs. This writing was the equivalent of “two books over the past two years that I got almost no tenure credit for.” She wanted to encourage universities to look at “outreach” activities like blog posts when assessing candidates for tenure and promotion in order to “break away from the monograph as the model for who gets tenure.” She objected to the fact that she was granted tenure only because of a single scholarly monograph.

it sounds like they want to give up academic rigor in general, its more insulting to non white men to make it seem like they cant handle any hard work at all and that we should get rid of it than to have them work in these fields like the white men

this is embarassing to read, i was at a gathering recently where a girl sent off to college was telling everyone about how whites cant be oppressed and things like that and i was stunned that the stereotypes about college filling you up with a bunch of sjw shit was true, i dont want to take any of these "academics" seriously but will history take them seriously? theyre all the ones in positions of power but their ideas just seem stupid, will they have lots of influence on how things are seen from now on? or is it just their little circle jerk bubble that they keep trying to extend

>This subject shouldn't be this subject
I don't get it

>pls give tenure
>what have u written?
>my dairy desu

yes, fall of the roman empire, the knowledge either will be kept in the new monasteries or will perish, it happened often many times before

It started in 1054.

Honestly, I don't give a fuck anymore, the classics are all available, the resources to learn ancient greek and latin also. Academia will become literal blog-posting and become irrelevant.

yes, it's just their little circle jerk that controls academia, the media and all government officials. Just ignore them and they'll go away

we academia now

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it's why i was asking, i agree with you that its entered the media and government in that they've weaponized idpol to argue that one person or the other is better or worse entirely based on their race and sex, but wide swathes of society still hate it and don't buy it

theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

if the people aren't being brainwashed by it no matter how much its shoved down their throats does it mean that eventually history will do the same? maybe im being naive.

>wide swathes of society still hate it and don't buy it
having an increasing share of a decreasing market is the fastest way to go bankrupt, there's no escape but saving whatever can be saved and creating your own space if that's even possible

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>Whites are ever so slightly less likely than average to believe that political correctness is a problem in the country: 79 percent of them share this sentiment. Instead, it is Asians (82 percent), Hispanics (87 percent), and American Indians (88 percent) who are most likely to oppose political correctness.
>Three quarters of African Americans oppose political correctness. This means that they are only four percentage points less likely than whites, and only five percentage points less likely than the average, to believe that political correctness is a problem.

but your average minority member also doesn't like it, it seems like its just elites in academia trying to push this narrative

Larper ventures into the real world

just because somebody doesn't like it aesthetically doesn't mean they won't vote for it as long as there are spoils to share

It's telling that one of the biggest platforms for this movement of "luminaries" is a literal blog (started by Mark Zuckerburg's sister no less)

eidolon.pub

I can't decide if Zuckerurg's sister is a genius or retarded, a couple of years ago she was telling black kids to not study classics because its racist, then last year she complained that the "alt-right" interest in classics had skyrocketed and were becoming a secondary authority on stoicism.

kek, the actual alt-right or just some right wingers? haven't seen anybody in the actual alt-right that read a book

The actual alt-right

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This is a power play by managerial neoliberals, they need a completely deracinated population of patients/victims/consumers with no past and no philosophy beyond the pulsations of social media blipvertising. An empty narcissistic subject is the easiest one to rule over. They are using polarisatiom to preemptively quell all opposition.

/pol/acks are probably better read on the Classics than your average NYT journalist.

kek, isn't Fahrenheit 451 just a normie inoffensive defense of books? haven't read it but didn't know it was considered nazi literature

i doubt anybody on /pol/ reads, i can see them getting some second-hand info about the classics from some youtuber, which may still be more than the average NYT journalist to be fair

Explains why Zuckerberg could be interested. we are experiencing massive technological change, ecological catastrophe, displacement of millions of people
and unprecedented concentrations of power due to the above, of course you dont want people to be critical or display any independent thought whatsoever. Intersectionality differs from previous leftist ideologies in that it cannot propose any utopia or even a positive vision of the human, beyond a thousand fragmented states of injury. See Afropessimism for example. Their vision of the subject is purely therapeutic if they had actually read foucault they would know that therapeutic power is more insidious and totalitarian than disciplinary power.

You don't browse much outside of Yea Forums do you? because the literal exact opposite is happening, /pol/ have been scoring successful hits on /leftypol/ lately by dismantling and pointing out popular personalities are creating videos on subjects they've learnt about through Wikipedia.

that's the big enchilada
youtube.com/watch?v=_NVsyMalJXo

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I've learning how to communicate in a language you understand, I think you'd called this: Cope.

i'm not saying /pol/ doesn't have good insights, but at the end of the day their tool is just deconstruction, but pointed towards leftists instead of towards society, but it can't really build anything

heck, even most of the latest Zizek articles are just basic /pol/ talking points with a small leftist twist to make them palatable to the establishment

still won't be of any use to them, the left getting hit just shows how impervious they are and how much power they really have, they are basically whipping any right wing talking points from the mainstream internet and there's nothing you can do about it

with all that i've seen no indication that /pol/ reads books, they are just energetic people with time and nothing better to do

>by dismantling and pointing out popular personalities are creating videos on subjects they've learnt about through Wikipedia.

give me a qrd

I know one that received a bunch of attention on /it/ was the youtube cakeboy crowd tried debunking a bunch of pagan alt-righters and got absolutely destroyed because they didn't know two out of three of them had doctorates and studied their shit professionally.

Japanese people are cooked as man, wtf is that

not only that but pewdiepie says its shit

oh, the leftist guy who spoke about Survive the Jive, StJ is cool and obviously reads, i wouldn't consider him /pol/ though

>Alex Jones is Nick Land
He literally just said the transcendental wants AI to raise humanity past itself. Too bad he didn't go any deeper into it and realize technology will become its own entity and transcend us.

>nstead, it is Asians (82 percent), Hispanics (87 percent), and American Indians (88 percent) who are most likely to oppose political correctness.
>all we have to do is use the abstraction "political correctness" and we can pretend these people don't overwhelmingly support this sort of bullshit

Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese are really accepting of the ideas of identity politics. Fuck off idiot.

im showing you statistics you show me some to back up what youre saying because i really do think if you go up to the average non college student asian or hispanic man or woman they aren't going to lap up idpol

Jesus Christ wtf is even going on in America academia? Who hired these subversive people?

Why don't we teach classical Mayan along with Homer?

Why don't we teach classical Russian along with Thucydides?

Why don't we teach classical Korean along with Plato?

They are called Classics for a REASON, you moron. Do you know what the word classic even means?

Anywhere on the internet that actually behaves like an ideal academic site?
It's certainly not here although the discussion is very free and good.

Reddit is too restricting and other forums are full of pseuds.

>Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese
When they're born and raised in America they're not really Chinese anymore, stupid
>im showing you statistics
Stats which don't show what you think they do.

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Sarah Bond, the main anti-white ringleader in the charge to "diversify the classics," is a jewess.

judas.watch/Sarah_E_Bond

Well if that isn't distilled essence of coincidence, then I don't know what is

Um, friend, we call that a COHENcidence in these parts.

There should be extensive efforts to go to indigenous Native American and African cultures to record and translate oral traditions.

Western Civ should just be renamed "World Civ" and then divide courses into different areas based on how much content you can actually teach in one class, and everyone should be exposed to Arabian Nights, Journey to the West, Tale of Genji, Mahabharata, Popol Vuh, etc. in addition to the Greeks and Romans.

>hat I hate the most is that these ideas are coming to Europe, people are starting to talk more and more about race and gender, forgetting that Spanish and Danes are nothing alike. You now have people talking about reparation for slavery in countries that never enslaved any Blacks, but were historically bullied by (white) bordering nations. Or freshly arrived immigrants talking about being "historically marginalised", even though the country that is welcoming them didn't have any extra-european immigration until 20 years ago.
>every country is following american gender and racial studies, which is really weird, because some racial dynamics make no sense outside the US, but they are still copy/pasted into other countries as if they did
>That's exactly what I am saying, this ideology is spreading throughout Europe, even though it doesn't make much sense in most countries.
That's what I have been noticing too, the increased adoption of such purely american definitions and concepts (such the binary concept of black and white) that lose much of their value outside of the US or more often are even totally useless, latino in europe or black in eastern europe and africa for example, because the local history and realities have nothing or barely anything to do with the situation in the US.
Does anybody know by chance any good articles or books into this topic?

you sound Polish and I mean that as an insult

Very naive perspective. Our anti-white jewish and nonwhite enemies don't make any such distinction, so we can no longer afford to. You're either wise enough to be on your own side or you were of low intelligence and thus of little use from the start.

Nonsense.

Let’s be real here, you all are sensationalizing the shit out of any sort of off-The-wall crazy fringe liberal idea because you just want a thread that gets bumped a lot.

To everyone bumping this shit: stop. It isn’t necessary to, just don’t worry about it. In real life people aren’t crazy liberals, and there are many God believers to make one happy. Funny how the people supporting this kind of chaos are the evolutionists who listen to Jordan B Peterson on their way to college paid for by Mommy and daddy who nurtured the women like in OP too much as well as all of you.

Go outside.

Sage.

No, this is a big problem. Jews and their token negros lecturing whites about how ebil and bad our culture and civilization is, is a serious issue that needs to be pointed out and amplified so we can gain the popular support necessary to expel these parasites and reestablish a more healthy culture where anti-white juden-policies of "diversity" are no longer acceptable.

Thanks for telling me that I, as a Chinese-American, don't exist.

America is a disaster, we are basically destroying not only our own country but basically all Western culture up until WW2 because muh Jews and blacks or something.

>as a Chinese-American
You're not really Chinese, sorry.

one society has the backing of the American State (the intersectional one) and the other does not. their chances are not going to be so good when the Red Guards with American Characteristics come.

You refuse to realize they are influenced by the past generations of their family. You also refuse to realize just how many Chinese people are newly immigrating to the west every day.

>>It is important to stand up for Classics as a discipline, and promote it as the political, literary, historical, philosophical, rhetorical, and artistic foundation of Western Civilization, and the basis of European history, tradition, culture, and religion.
>It gave us the concepts of liberty, equality, and democracy, which we should teach and promote.

these can't both be true since 2. is destroying 1., or rather it's only true insofar as the classics were themselves depicting deeply troubled societies

>You refuse to realize they are influenced by the past generations of their family.
Most of that is wiped in one generation, the rest is wiped out with the following.
>You also refuse to realize just how many Chinese people are newly immigrating to the west every day.
I know all about scab laborers

You just want people to stop talking about this because you agree with the ideas and you want to stop any kind of opposition to it.
I have seen people like you in other boards.

>muh Jews and blacks or something.

There's no "or something." Go watch the video of the event on the site; around the 45 minute mark it literally devolves into a jew and a black screeching in front of a room of scared white historians that "western civilization doesn't exist", "I'm not a part of western civilization", "I hope the classics die" etc.

These are two groups of parasites, one (blacks) brought here on the other's (jews) slave ships, that do not belong in the west and who are using positions of influence we granted to them to subvert and distort our culture. Whites have to face what's going on and unite so we can excise these nonwhites from our societies before they do any more damage.

Yes, he is. Just as any second generation of you would be a laowai there. He's a product of globalization that needs to return home. He is in an alien environment.

curly is absolutely correct, well done

that was gold

> the forger was a literal cuck fetishist
Holy hell, you can't make this shit up

to be fair most Progressive views are basically nonsense, constant reality denial and full-spectrum media dominance are needed to keep these ideas in the minds of the masses. it really is post-ideological, the only underlying idea is "I hate people of European descent, t. Moishe". Half the things Progressives believe are the opposite of what their Progressive grandparents believed in 1940.

Wtf is this graph about?

>(Sarah Bond pointed out that these writers were “all men” and seemed to think she’d scored a devastating point at my expense.)
AAAAAAAAAA
I want to get off.

hate speech laws

but Yea Forums leftists assured me this sort of stuff never happens

This shit is not fringe anymore.

Not only it is not happening, but it's a good thing and they deserved it.

You know the /pol/ joke
>The holocaust didn't happen but it needs to happen again
I guess this is he left equivalent that goes
>Western culture doesn't exist but we need to destroy it.

Competition is patriarchal and toxic. The whole point of this nonsense is to promote people based on inherent characteristics and oppression points rather than qualification. Once one or two of these idiots take over a department its over.

>Neoliberalism
>left

You don't support the decolonization of literature and the inclusion of diverse perspectives as a Communist? Why not? Are you sure you aren't some kind of Strasserite bigot?

It's a mix of foreign interests influencing american politics and the business model of contemporary universities in which any degree is offered and maintained as long as people are willing to pay for it, regardless of merit.

>decolonization
What the fuck does that term even mean?

This is not neo-liberalism anymore. It's progressivism, with no actual goal, but to destroy everything that once was and replace it with pure nonsense.
And I'm sorry, but I don't think there's any political axiom that could show this pervasive ideology was born of the right.

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Blaq woman good

It means
>european=bad
>everything else under the sun=good

>Padilla’s solution “for the wellbeing and the future of the discipline,” was for Classics to “de-colonise” itself: “The most fundamental question for the future of knowledge production in Classics is this: how do we recognise, honour and repair the silencing of the knowledges that people of colour carry?”

>He called for “reparative epistemic justice,” and asked for holders of “white privilege” to “surrender their privilege”:

>In practical terms, this means that in an economy of academic prestige defined and governed by scarcity, white men will have to surrender the privilege they have of seeing their words printed and disseminated. They will have to take a back seat, so that people of colour, and women, and gender-non-conforming scholars of colour benefit from the privileges, career and otherwise, of seeing their words on the page.

Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you Americans?

>What the fuck does that term even mean?
It means remove whitie.

White people have captured all of the academic fields just like they colonized all of the countries. So "whiteness" needs to be removed. That means individual white people are allowed to stay as long as they don't behave like white people and get to be back of the bus.

>It's a mix of foreign interests influencing american politics and the business model of contemporary universities in which any degree is offered and maintained as long as people are willing to pay for it, regardless of merit.
American Jews aren't really foreign interests by American laws, we're stuck with them for the time being...

>the business model of contemporary universities in which any degree is offered and maintained as long as people are willing to pay for it, regardless of merit.
This doesn't explain why the course offerings have the content they do. The State/intel agencies/donors to universities have a desired curriculum and ensure that academics who promote this curriculum advance in their career. The whole point of this ideology is
>1. European man bad
>2. Brown woman good
because it reflects Jewish fears that the most philosemitic society yet to exist, that subsidizes a State for them and protects it with their military, is full of people waiting to pounce and throw them in the gas chamber at any instant, and serves as ideological marketing for ruling class plans to bring a bunch of peasants in to buy and sell garbage to each other.

All your Jews came here and now we're stuck with them. Our institutions were weak to this sort of thing as it is, and the whole race narrative in the US didn't help things.

>your jews
Jews fear the Mongolian, hence they were never here in the first place.
:^)

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I assumed you were a Euro, Genghis

>it's neoliberalism

COPE

>Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you Americans?

Padilla is acting in his tribal self-interest. Nothing "wrong" with him. Many of the whites however, lack any sort of moral backbone or idea of duty to oneself and so he has correctly identified that he can use them for self advancement. They (those whites) are entirely demoralized and do not see themselves as worthy of existing. There you go. That is the situation.

>it reflects Jewish fears that the most philosemitic society yet to exist, that subsidizes a State for them and protects it with their military, is full of people waiting to pounce and throw them in the gas chamber at any instant

We're getting there...

Which article?

It is a sad day when Canada is less cucked than America.
I've come to hate pol despite agreeing with alot of their ideas just because of their severe mental retardation, but I can't really blame them seeing their shit education.

it's not called a terrible racist event. if you read his blog it's literally "trauma"

how could i not flip that around about your own statistics? we clearly wont agree with each other about this

he's probably a finngol

Really feels like some form of skills flexing on part of the whoever was in charge of drawing postures.

The quality of your post was good, why did you mention that you are gay?

because my own address a specific question, your use the loaded term "political correctness"

I have honestly nothing against the Romans and the Greeks, and the notion that we should abandon them is ridiculous, but diversifying the field wouldn't be bad.

People sperging on how the Greeks invented everything worth inventing while ignoring the vast swathes of interesting areas yet to be investigated in Egypt, the Middle East and Africa are not defending Western Civilization, they're just being narrow-minded and rather sloppy in the end.

The Greeks came relatively late in history (Plato is chornologically closer to us than to the invention of writing by the Sumerians), having a broader perspective doesn't hurt.

And then it turns out the field doesn't even gain enough funding to maintain broad scholarship on Ancient Greece and you realize the problem lied elsewhere entirely.

Not a bigot, not sure who Strasserite(?) is
I see perhaps a name change, a different class curriculum. Can’t calling it classics or western classics and screw with it like that.

It’s IDpol and plenty of left liberals do track that crap in. If you’re only socially progressive liberal, you’re missing what’s going on in the world.
Anyone who is capitalist can’t join my club of leftism

We’re trying

>it's not leftist when it makes us look bad
>don't look at the ideological roots or you're a nazi conspiracy theorist

First I'd like you to define capitalism.

>diversifying the field wouldn't be bad.

Go diversify it in some mud country and stop trying to push it in white countries, faggot.

>People sperging on how the Greeks invented everything worth inventing while ignoring the vast swathes of interesting areas yet to be investigated in Egypt, the Middle East and Africa are not defending Western Civilization, they're just being narrow-minded and rather sloppy in the end.

Every civilization in the middle east was build by whites. Whites used to live throughout the middle east and north Africa, which is why many of the elites all the way to India have high European admixture and still speak Indo-European languages. Ignorant fuck, hope you're some brown loiterer in from Yea Forums and not a white man, because there's no excuse for your ignorance if it's the latter.

>not sure who Strasserite(?) is

LOfuckingL. Bitch, haven't you embarrassed yourself enough around here? Or are people still spoofing that c-word's symbolfag theme?

The Yuros tend to unplug their brains when it comes to gobbling any popular shit produced by the US unfortunately.

If I ever want to publish a best-seller in my yuropoor country I'll make sure to use a American pseudonyme.

It'd be cool if they covered Epic of Gilgamesh and so on, but we all know what diversification actually means in this context.

99.99% sure this is rotoscoped

>it's very hard to bullshit actual production

Your point makes sense but you vastly underestimate the amount of bullshit in business while largely overestimating the amount of actual production. Consultants with dubious to nonexistent expertise or hapless executives being paid north of 150k a year for little to no benefit to the company isn't that uncommon a sight in large corporations. As in every other field mastering the lingo and adopting the proper demeanor is much more important than actually producing.

I’m so sick of this tranny namefag.

The worst thing about this is that everything cool about the US pre-1945 has been retconned so now it's just gay and degenerate, and that's what gets promoted.

Because idiotic appropriation is idiotic. Now if it was trying to appropriate and repurpose Plato for the sake of sophisticated gnostic pantheism that would be another story.

>us
Us anti-capitalists, no.
Social justice is a good thing, for the most part, but it’s just being overblown on purpose to distract from the economic war.

It’s been done. I oppose it all. If we can’t get a shared economy then at least implement a non-accumulative voucher system.

Globohomoschlomo.

Uh, this is the culture of white European men; we can't "appropriate" it, it's ours. And the people claiming we're trying to appropriate it are middle eastern semites that have been booted from everywhere they've ever stepped foot.

>I oppose it all
So I'm free to take your wallet then?
>Social justice is a good thing
I have hard time accepting any movement that has the word "justice" in their name.

>repurposes
I know you said Plato, but the point still stands. If the writers of the classics were around today they would be called racist xenophobes.

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If I had labor vouchers in my wallet, and you stole them, you couldn’t use them.

But you wouldn’t need to steal them. You’d have all you really need as it is.

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God you are unbearable—totally ignorant of the problems facing the humanities and unaware of how to actually defend against them. It’s people like you who are the reason for this horrible rise of intersectionality in fields like classics and literature.

And for the record, that doesn’t make me a fan of frogboy, either.

I refuse.

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You’re both reddit and you both need to go back.

Don’t reply to commie trannies.

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Refuse what?

All of it.
Your deep, entrenched rabbit hole.
You have no clue how to get from here to there.
Even if society would crumble down tomorrow, the society coming afterwards would not be the one you are trying to peddle.
It's pure ideology.
Utopia.
I refuse.

The universities are kinda the monasteries now. People know little of the Greeks outside of them, and that has been the case for decades.

If your graph is any indication the "market" will still be there and kicking until the end of this century.

>typical alt-right books
>Farenheit 451
>Huxley
>Memerson

I leave them half a decade before they collectively grow out of highschool core.

>Why don't we teach classical Mayan along with Homer?
>Why don't we teach classical Russian along with Thucydides?
>Why don't we teach classical Korean along with Plato?

That sounds fucking baller, though I doubt there such things as "classical Russian" and "classical Korean" or even "classical Mayan". Classical Chinese and Arabic exist however, so yeah we could study them together.

Fucking this. Where can I donate to contribute to funding ?

>ywn be a young hopeful undergraduate learning Navajo along Ancient Greek in the glorious Wold Civ department

feelsbadman, but I would probably be too brainlet for this anyway.

>if you not with us you're with them

If you're that intent on going to crusade why not shitpost on /k/ instead

>these are the people we will all be competing with
jajajaj
Didn't you know meritocracy is a toxic ideal to strive towards?

To show that he's not biased against gay, and thus is rationale is more likely to be a result of observations than a disguised attempt to disseminate homophobic ideas.

If he were a self-hating fag for instance that would be another issue.

disgusting reply tbhwy

kys rootless

>Go diversify it in some mud country and stop trying to push it in white countries, faggot.

Stunning argument, I'm sure Aristotle would be proud.

>Every civilization in the middle east was build by whites.

Who the fuck cares ? Only a retarded American, or someone intellectually corrupted by American ideology, would believe than modern US notions can be applied verbatim to Antiquity. How must of an history brainlet do you have to be not to realize that ?

Anyway it's fun to see you consider Persians, Turks, Arabs and Jews to be white. Really gives another meaning to the whole thing.

> Whites used to live throughout the middle east and north Africa

I know bub, and they still do. My mom is Moroccan but whiter than your dad's ass (and even whiter than my fathers who's purebred European). I doesn't matter at all. Western Civilization, as people call it, is not about whiteness, if it were it would have to include the Amazigh Pharaos of old, as well as the Uighurs, which would be odd don"t you think ?

> which is why many of the elites all the way to India have high European admixture and still speak Indo-European languages

Your problem lies in the faulty identity European = Indo-European = whites. Berbers are white skinned but not Europeans and their language is not indo-european. Basque isn't an Indo-European language, and neither is Hungarian or Finnish for that matter, but the Basque, the Hungarian and the Finnish are certainly white and Europeans. Indian aren't Europeans no matter what you say, even though sanskrit is Indo-European. Even the most purebred aryan brahmin today couldn't be considered whites, and that has been the case for a very long time.

So unless you're willing to extend the notion of whiteness to the point it retains no ethnic characteristics and is basically a blanket term for the population of half the Eurasian landmass you argument relies on flawed understanding of race, not to mention European civilization.

Distinctions matter in science, including in geography and linguistics. You're just being sloppy.

> Ignorant fuck

Ironic.

> hope you're some brown loiterer in from Yea Forums and not a white man

Probably whiter than you, but again it doesn't matter. I'm starting to think the meme about /pol/ being full of delusional retards is true after all. But perhaps we simply have different notions of whiteness, after all some people considered black in the American South would have been considered black by the Afrikaners.

>because there's no excuse for your ignorance if it's the latter

Right back at you mister race-is-nationality-is-language.

>Spotting someone reading is now a heuristic for identifying the alt-right
>Claims Fahrenheit 451 is alt-right
>mfw political correctness was the cause of the anti-book culture in Fahrenheit 451

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>Oh yeah and humanities is ever so relevant and influential.
The ever present denial of left power is so tiring. Maybe a decade ago you could have gotten away with it, but it's so blatant now that it's not funny anymore.

Self fulfilling prophecy

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I have older roots in my countries than you have in your own but nice try amerimutt.

theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/the-unbelievable-tale-of-jesus-wife/485573/

Yeah unfortunately I have to agree. But I doubt there will be any kind of actual diversification, just less staff and facilities for teaching Classics.

Pretty much exactly what I meant when I mentioned lack of funding. Americans at large just don't care about translating Horace (or Confucius for that matter).

>Uh, this is the culture of white European men; we can't "appropriate" it, it's ours.

Actually the Greeks have been a huge cultural influence on the Levantines, the Turks and the Arabs as well, in philosophy and medecine but also in politics (there were a variety of democratic experiments inspired by Athens in the Near East).

So I suppose it's too late for appropriation of the Greeks at any rate, but appropriation is a silly word, apologies for having used it.

Why are most of the political and economic, academic, and media elite progressives?

>still giving a shit about what is happening at humanities departments
The humanities are already so far up their own ass they are beyond saving. Eventually they will implode and then can be rebuilt from the foundation. Most departments are already seeing cuts across the board.

Those "Levantines, the Turks and the Arabs" were/are the leftover Indo-European population that lived in the middle east and built the civilizations in Mesopotamia and elsewhere before getting overwhelmed by semites, jews and arabs, as is happening now. Semites used to be confined to the Arabian Peninsula; they're parasites that only expanded once whites had come in and built functioning societies they could parasitize. They were the same savages then as they are today; semites don't preserve civilization, they destroy it.

Humanities academics do have a large influence on the media and the corporate world. Identity politics is everywhere nowadays.

He was unironically MK Ultra brainwashed. This was his purpose.

based non-positionist

The alt right is a non entity, this is just the result of leftist cultural dominance, in 100 years conservatives will be defending the things the left is putting forward now.

the problem is that classical is a fucking retarded word. Obviously there is classical Russian. There's also old church slavonic. There's also proto slavic. Why the fuck would you teach any of them in a classics department? Classics implies antiquity.

"Conservatives" are far more of a nonentity than the alt right, bub. And you're not paying attention if you think conservativism is going to be around in 100 years. White racialism will necessarily swarm it and consume it or stamp it out since it was always a controlled op facade created by post-Birch Society neocohens.

Your chronology doesn't add up bub en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations

Remember there are 10k years old settlements in Anatolia, and cuneiform are about 5500 years old.

Also am I to suppose than Indo-Europeans were extent in the Islamic umma up to the 18th century and did all the work, or that the messy ethnic mingling of the Middle East are actually mostly Indo-Europeans in disguise ?

But the idea that an Arabs and Turks who built stuff must be considered Indo-Europeans even when the don't belong to any ethnic group speaking an Indo-European language and their languages themselves are not Indo-European is ridiculous. It's like you can't accept than a semite (or a Turk) can achieve anything so you have to write them off as actually Indo-Europeans or as owing anything to them.

I suppose all the Jewish scientist of the past 200 years plagiarized their works from non-semitic people ? Not denying they were fully integrated in Europe, but if you're willing to equate that integration with actual belonging to Western Civilization you'll have to admit that most Jews are actually Westerners. Right now you're merely committing the polar opposite of the Nazi mistake of writing off relativity as "Jewish science".

Note that I kept using Indo-European in my post. See my other post that's not the same as white, and the original argument was about whites.

civilizational decline, it's just a natural part of the cycle

Any website not explicitly right-wing (or anonymous and unmoderated like this one) sooner or later becomes left-wing

You're right about classical but it also applies to classics. Heck the word "classics" can refer to any canonical work, so that puts Shakespeare in the same bag as Homer. Obviously that won't do if you want to study Antiquity, so why not call it "Greek and Roman Antiquity" or someting similar.

This has been happening since 1968, get over it and carry on learning as you like.

The worst reaction to this kind of overt politicization is an even dumber politicization in the opposite direction.

But God damn it drives me up the wall how every fucking idea anyone has about anything nowadays is political in the most superficial sense (ie, that what a person thinks/does matters because it bears some influence on the progressive or regressive direction of society)

that's why intersectionality works, it's linguistic control and coalition forming without having to have any clear underlying values, which makes it perfect for times of decline and dissolution to create a fast and loose coalition to raid all the spoils

>Also am I to suppose than Indo-Europeans were extent in the Islamic umma up to the 18th century

They're present now. Look at the leadership across the middle east, especially in Shia regions. Look at Assad or the Iranian elite. They're mixed Aryans. Sadam's right hand man was a ginger for God's sake. What you're disputing is accepted history that has been genetically and linguistically documented for a long time, though some idiot on the internet like you being unaware of this is hardly surprising. But it's not worth my time.

it's not happening, it's happening but it's not so bad, it's not happening but we should make it happen

it means to have a naive and totally western-centric vision of history, but then you turn it upside down and consider anything western bad

>for Classics to “de-colonise” itself
isn't the whole point of the classics that most of our countries were all "colonised" by romans and that we appreciate that legacy? how the fuck do you "de-colonise" that? go back to ancestral european paganism and proto-indoeuropean languages?

why does the name matter when everyone knows what it means as a department?

>What you're disputing is accepted history that has been genetically and linguistically documented for a long time

I'm not disputing there are mixed Aryan, but by definition they're not only Indo-Europeans. Do you also consider Obama white becauseof his mother ? In that case, if mixed Indo-European being present among others people means the civilization is actually secretly European, then the ethnic distinction start losing most of its value.

So I guess your argument is that a guy with any bit of Indo-European ancestry must necessarily owe all his achievement to precisely that ancestry and nothing else. Again we're reaching a point of emptiness in the argument.

Just rerad the post line. I'm arguing against the idea that the Greeks "belong to white" Europeans, and you keep enlarging who is part of the former. You also move the goalpost to Indo-European, which is a better term but not identical.

Soon we will reach a point where you will argue most Jews aren't actually Jew because they likely have European ancestry, at which point I'll have to ask why in this case you care so much making blaming the Jews and exalting the European.

>Sadam's right hand man was a ginger

Again, the European whites are not the only ones white, nor are they the only gingers (there are also Jewish gingers for that matter). So in the end what matters ? Whiteness ? Being of European ancestry ? Bewteen a native speaker of an Indo-European langage ? You keep failing to adress the questions, which is yet the central one in all your arguments so far. End for all those questions I've shown the inconsistency of your position in my posts above.

Seem like you are simply mistaking a very real case of ethnic mingling and cohabitation for some proof of superiority or unique relationship of Indo-Europeans with the Greeks (again, were did the white Europeans of your first post go ? and where are the classical translation of Aristotles in sanskrit ?).

The fact that, for instance, Greek philosophers were translated into Arabic (mostly by Christians living in the Near East, fair enough) at the demand of Arab rulers and scholar, and that those translations served as basis of commentaries for most of the Muslim world and for centuries (so for the Persians, who are Indo-Europeans, as much as for the Arabs and later the Turks, who are not) doesn't seem to register for you as an indication that, yes, there is a cultural legacy of Ancient Greece in the Near and Middle East (but also in Al-Andalus) and that, yes, it's not magically restricted to Indo-Europeans.

>though some idiot on the internet like you being unaware of this

I already said I was aware of it here . But I agree the phrasing of the sentence you quoted is misleading so I take it back.

>But it's not worth my time.

It's a bit late to play the "too cool for this card". And I haven't even given you all the possible objections. But I understand you'd want to stop since we keep arguing in circles.

If it doesn't why does it matter if we also the use the words "classical" for other classical languages ?

Install Jews and black females into every position in the Classics Department and produce works about how either every work in the Classics curriculum is racist or presages Nazism, or how (insert figure here) was Actually Black.

>My guess is that it is a more recent development, and likely a response to the alt-right lionization of a specific historiography grounded in a greco-latin Western civilization.

This is a dumbass post. This stuff has been around since the 60s. There was even the "culture wars" in the 80s and 90s taking place on campuses. Pretty sure I could take any high impact scholarly classics journal and find social "theory" in these journals going back before the alt-right was ever a thing.

Also, how strategically stupid does liberalism have to be for one to have to fight wars on several fronts, when the alt-right is a media boogeyman, while your other alleged enemy has near complete control over academia and is being funded by massive foundations? It's hilarious to me that centrists and liberals treat these two alleged "enemies" as symmetric in their financial, organizational, institutional, and counted-personnel power. You're either a strategic dumbass, or you are gaslighting because, secretly, I think liberals and centrists actually like the far left more than the far right.

>White people have captured all of the academic fields
>people that have lived in a country for more than 6 months have captured all academic fields
really makes you think

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exactly, nothing wrong with minorities working for their own interests. Europeans and americans thinking they can import people and brainwash them into carrying your own legacy instead of theirs by giving them a 4 weeks language course is beyond retarded

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what's with academia and having to give everything a "therapeutic" bent? it's beyond retarded, specially when they have never cured one single person with any of their theories, just explained to them how they are justified in feeling bad and wallow in their own shit

i agree with your point that there's a lot of bullshit in business, and even worse if we get into finance and the government bailing out banks

But in the business world there will always be some minimal feedback and external standards, like bankruptcy or investors moving to the new hot thing, you can't bullshit everything for 50-80 years without your company blowing up and money moving somewhere else where things are trendy and happening

But you can bullshit in academia or the media for 50-80 years if the circle-jerk is strong enough until reality really catches up with you, as long as there were institutions strong enough in place that they take 1-3 generations to completely dismantle and see the actual results of the decisions taken. Feedback is much slower in those fields.

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forgot to mention, the results of social engineering are difficult to see immediately specially when technology can cover up a lot of the social decay, like currently with the fast technological progress

But social decay always ends up blowing up at some point

JESUS FUCK

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that would be true if the "market" had any in-group preference

but it doesn't, while other "markets" do

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who is going to "educate" them out of highschool core? the actual academics believe Farenheit 451 is nazi literature and write papers about it

universities are not isolated from society and trying to preserve knowledge, universities are entangled with society and forming the new ruling classes, and the new ruling classes have a clear agenda

>Who the fuck cares ? Only a retarded American, or someone intellectually corrupted by American ideology, would believe than modern US notions can be applied verbatim to Antiquity. How must of an history brainlet do you have to be not to realize that ?
and yet all universities are slowly but surely moving in that direction. Makes you think

yep, basically the left at this point
>capture all media, headlines and narratives with their language
>oh but we are still totally marginalized and oppressed by poor working class miners

thats retarded

>de-colonise
didn’t even bother reading the greentext after that. anybody who uses that term is a dumb pseud with an agenda

just ignore them, the humanities are just educating and filling all positions in media, corporate HR and government oficials and setting their narrative

but outside of those 3 things, they are totally irrelevant, they will magically disappear if you ignore them

They have also invented those academic fields in the first place

not sure about that, he said that experiment was a small thing, voluntary and he rather enjoyed it

he was just a guy too redpilled for his time

>in 100 years conservatives
yes, conservatives are just 10 years delayed progressives, but i doubt there will be much left in 100 years to "deconstruct", there's only so much social decay a society can take before collapsing. Yes, out institution were strong and kept going for a while through pure inertial, but there's only so long you can continue that way

>The worst reaction to this kind of overt politicization is an even dumber politicization in the opposite direction.
le radical centrism has no future at this point, radical centrism just like conservatism is just progressivism but slower. You have no alternative narrative to confront intersectionality, you have no coalition, and there's no going back to modernity as it didn't deliver on its promises and everybody is aware of that

it was funny how the STEM fields were so smug 5 years ago about having "won", and now they have to accept the humanities and basically as an HR department for Stem

Even the Linux project that is not linked to academia and it's a "free" project of STEM "voluntaries" (many paid corporate ones at this point) had to bow down to the humanities and sign down a "Code of Conduct" written by some dude in a dress

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how is it retarded that a group working together for their interests will out-compete a bunch of individuals each doing their own thing?

All of this is caused by the weakness of the men in charge. If they would just say no and kick out subversive elements from their departments/projects then none of these humanity shitters could do anything.

Old trick of 'you craziees are all the same' when saying so is obviously targeted at one group while other 'extrelists' are left alone.
It's only made worse when the side being suppressed is at least functional and others are complete madmen.
Even my boomer dad kept a piece of journal from the mid 79s where journos were seething with hatred about Pinochet killing three thousand subversives and making his country industry and business functional again while being at most embarrassingly disappointed by pol pot massacring three million randos and reducing the rest to subsistence slavery.
There are of course committed independent that don't fit right/left, like fascists or islamists, and truly apolitical people, but the 'respectable centrist' is almost always a passionless inconsistent tankie, with enough to lose in a true proletarian movement.

STEM is fueled by social autists, which is their greatness, but they are never going to win a social warfare battle against the humanities on the long term

I think it's more than that. These businesses are dependent on educated labor, and universities, knowing this, have done everything they can to push the labor force leftward and drag every major business in the same direction. The left's concentrated economic power and existing organizational infrastructure makes a boycott from them far more threatening than anything the right can muster up.

Absolutely this

it doesn't, just everyone knows these are two different uses of classical, so i don't know why someone would suggest classical russian in a classics department