Tell me about the Iliad, Yea Forums. What moral themes does this book touch on? What does it say about human nature...

lmao, call homer the cuck not me
do you seriously not get the final line

You're a cuck dude

The Iliad and Odyssey exalt the nobility of Honor.

The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.

Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.

Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.

Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.

Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."

And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.

Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.

A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”

But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

Why did all of Greece under Agamemnon invade Troy for one girl? Why did the families of these men support them in doing so, even the women? Was this woman that beautiful? Yes, it is that in part. There is the saying of the woman who launched a thousand ships. But in going after this woman and the cowardly Paris who stole her, the men were going to reclaim society. It was not that the men were horny and all marveled the beauty of this woman. It was that these men upheld their values so much, that they wouldn’t even let this woman, who had beauty blessed by a “goddess” get away with doing something so heinous as breaking a wedding vow and running away with another man to another country.

And we see this again when Achilles refuses to fight. The Achaens had vows that a certain maiden, as a spoil of war would go to Achilles. But King Agamemnon broke this, and thus Achilles refused to bend to his will and retreated to his own tent. This is showing a people who held on to honor, respect, justice, even at the cost of defying the most beautiful woman in the world (and the mischievous deities that supported her) as well as kings. In both cases what was theirs was reclaimed

Thank you for your response

Gay sex

take that edx course "the ancient greek hero"
is good and comfy
also you have to read the iliad and the odyssey like three times each
is like a fast "start with the greeks"

So I assume honor is a concept intimately connected to Socratic virtue?

What's the best translation of the Iliad?

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Fitzgerald

Lattimore

Fagles if you're going to actually apply it to it's intended purpose:
>PUBLIC
>PERFORMANCE
Stand up in a random public park and reCITE that shit my nigga, blow the ear-pussy of the general public out with Homie's big wine-dark cock. Too long has the ineffectual micropenis of slam poetry plauged the near-virginal and welcoming holes floating through our sad propogandic noise-desensitized society. >BURST THE UNRUPTURED HYMEN-DRUM
>MAKE A PLEASURE-SMOOTHIE OF THE HAMMER AND ANVIL
>SHOOT YOUR HOT, STEAMING THEMATIC DEVICES INTO THE EAGER SKULL-WOMB

Lattimore's a bit better for just reading, says the general consensus

I read fagles. Was fine I thought

Chapman.

t. Keats

Can't you translation autists keep it to your containment threads?

So fagles is most poetic, but not as accurate?

Caroline Alexander, then Lattimore.

you're an actual fucking brainlet if you think popes translation is based. Pope does his fucking best to essentially omit the violence from the Iliad.
If you want a good modern translation read the one by fagles, he's great.

Pope

based and Akhilleus pilled

>Akhilleus
bless ya!

Great posts, capped.

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This is not the best video, but i think Goffman's facework is very useful.
Look at how characters are forced into conflict in order to maintain face.
youtube.com/watch?v=zyvIYc9s__M

it's a joke. it's from some alt right blog 5 years ago

The Iliad was studied as hard as the bible
How do you expect some retards on Yea Forums to explain this masterpiece to you
Its a very deep work and the best way to learn from it is to read it and interpret it yourself
That said, if you find war appalling or evil you will hate it.

μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος
οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηkε,
πολλὰς δ᾽ ἰφθίμους ψυχὰς Ἄϊδι προΐαψεν
ἡρώων, αὐτοὺς δὲ ἑλώρια τεῦχε kύνεσσιν
5οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι, Διὸς δ᾽ ἐτελείετο βουλή,
ἐξ οὗ δὴ τὰ πρῶτα διαστήτην ἐρίσαντε
Ἀτρεΐδης τε ἄναξ ἀνδρῶν kαὶ δῖος Ἀχιλλεύς.
τίς τ᾽ ἄρ σφωε θεῶν ἔριδι ξυνέηkε μάχεσθαι;
Λητοῦς kαὶ Διὸς υἱός: ὃ γὰρ βασιλῆϊ χολωθεὶς
10νοῦσον ἀνὰ στρατὸν ὄρσε kαkήν, ὀλέkοντο δὲ λαοί,
οὕνεkα τὸν Χρύσην ἠτίμασεν ἀρητῆρα
Ἀτρεΐδης: ὃ γὰρ ἦλθε θοὰς ἐπὶ νῆας Ἀχαιῶν
λυσόμενός τε θύγατρα φέρων τ᾽ ἀπερείσι᾽ ἄποινα,
στέμματ᾽ ἔχων ἐν χερσὶν ἑkηβόλου Ἀπόλλωνος
15χρυσέῳ ἀνὰ σkήπτρῳ, kαὶ λίσσετο πάντας Ἀχαιούς,
Ἀτρεΐδα δὲ μάλιστα δύω, kοσμήτορε λαῶν:
Ἀτρεΐδαι τε kαὶ ἄλλοι ἐϋkνήμιδες Ἀχαιοί,
ὑμῖν μὲν θεοὶ δοῖεν Ὀλύμπια δώματ᾽ ἔχοντες
ἐkπέρσαι Πριάμοιο πόλιν, εὖ δ᾽ οἴkαδ᾽ ἱkέσθαι:
20παῖδα δ᾽ ἐμοὶ λύσαιτε φίλην, τὰ δ᾽ ἄποινα δέχεσθαι,
ἁζόμενοι Διὸς υἱὸν ἑkηβόλον Ἀπόλλωνα.

talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy. homer found war appalling & basically evil.

actually the violence in the iliad is so perfunctory you can skip those passages without offence to homer

liar

it happens to be true

>translation
ISHYGDDT

ancient meme

you cant have a hot war without violence,you cant have iliad without violence.

Hector did not deserve that.

just skip jesus being scourged and nailed to a cross,no offense

yes he did he was a bitchmade cuck just like you

there is a great gulf separating the iliad from the bible - or, more accurately, the accadian creation epic, the hittite song of ullikummi, the ugaritic baal &tc. - it wasn't written by an endowed temple priest who set himself to exalt the gods and praise his rulers. homer had to think in terms of popular entertainment

Marines urinating on corpses is as old as war itself. The fundamental urge for revenge is understandable. Exhaustion and fear take their toll. Young men must in some way de-legitimize their enemy; otherwise, how can they be asked to take their lives unless they are deemed somehow unworthy to live? Homer's depiction of Achilles's rage helps us to understand this.

its about skipping violence in literature you tard

the battles were cartoons in the iliad

that's my point. the battles were for his patrons, homer often had to strain his imagination in describing novel varieties of manslaughter, which he credited to the ancestors of his hosts.

in your rotten mind that views the workings of the world in anime form

i don't mean to throw my weight around BUT i'm studying classics at ox4rd

i don't believe he made it up,i think he knew war intimately

what makes you think that ole boy

You're a fucking tard

forgive me if i said anything out of line

i think homer lost his sight as a result of head trauma in war,,,,and darkness veiled his eyes

TELL ME ABOUT ARCILLES? WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK?

>you can skip those passages without offense to homer
Spoken like a true 21st century cuck.
And no, you cant skip those passages "without offense". Its literally a book about war. The good and the bad. But its conclusion is ultimately a beautiful and heroic one. War is a reality of life. Violence is central to the poem.

Nobody knows who "Homer" is or anything about him. The blind bard thing is just a legend.

>arcilles

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yeah its legend and this is my embellishment of it

it's about war inasmuch as hamlet is a about denmark. the story is about the anger of achilles.

>Violence is central to the poem.
the hell it is

Go back to reading goosebumps you pseud

goosebumps?

ψευδής

Imagine being on the book board in 2017 + 2 and not knowing what goosebumps is
How young are you

i know what it is.
goosebumps though? where did that came from?

Its probably more your speed

that's not even homeric greek

i'm getting the impression it's more yours

violence/ῠ̔́βρις and mans relationship to it is the warp of iliad,its the main thread that everything else gets woven into(woof)

μῆνις is the crux of the tale

while looking at ῠ̔́βρις just now i saw βρισιά f (vrisiá, “insult, curse”) its kinda like Briseis

hubris menis violence is similar menis is the first word