The Great Debate

Is this how you type n-word in russian?

Even Tolkien btfoTolstoy. Haha fucking Tolstoy.

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Tolstoy is a better plot writer; Dosto is a better prose writer.

You can't refute this.

whats the n-word?

NYARLATHOTEP!!!

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woopah gangamna style ddsdss dsss ds ganam style woop woooop ganadam style dsss dsssss Epic ladie woaha whaoa

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It's literally the other way round you ps....
wait a minute, have I just been taken on a ruse cruise again? Well played.

Dostoevsky: better characters and message

Tolstoy: better prose and plot structure

>Dostoevsky: better characters and message
Dosto writes great character but none is as great as Andrei.

rashn?

I-I liked Notes from the Underground a lot. I feel a pang of insecurity. Damn you and your dubs you contrarian bastard.

> Even Dosto would've admitted that Tolstoy is better

That's because Dost is humble while Tolstoy deep-down was really arrogant.

Nabokov's criticisms are just meme, the guy shit on half the Western literary tradition while being very much derivative himself.

>deep-down
Tolstoy was really arrogant on the surface as well.

He's meming. The cultured Russian prefer Gogol to them both anyway, and Pushkin over anything else.

Fair enough.

Tolstoy is so much better it's sad.

based.
Tolstoy had the better prose and Dostoevsky the better philosophical/psychological insights, but Chekhov had the best prose and none have surpassed Pushkin's Eugene Onegin

russian, m8

>Tolstoy had the better prose and Dostoevsky the better philosophical/psychological insights
maybe thats why ivan ilyich was so emotionally impactful to me, perhaps the most meaningful piece of russian lit i've read so far (which is still growing desu). it seemed to hold both tolstoys skill/structure with dostos emotion/ insight

>all these people saying tolstoy has better prose
just stop, none of you speak russian.

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Not sure about their prose but Tolstoy definitely had the better translators.

Are you Russian? if so, could you elucidate their differences in prose? My experience reading their English translations is that Dosto's prose is a tad rougher. less "crafted" but still chock full of emotion with its ideas and passion, but Tolstoy's tends to be smoother, more cognizant of using prose and narrative technique to highlight emotion. i'd really love to learn more about their writing in the og russian.

Accurate translations of Dosto are not "good" because he himself wrote sloppily

Tolstoy had more time and money to refine his work. Dostoevsky lived in debt and tried to finish his work asap to get paid.

I hope this is bait, for your own sake.

bump
i really wanna get an response to this

I COEM FROM REDDIT TO TELL THAT U RETARDED> YOU BASH ON MY DUNE AND SANDERSON AND DAGLAS ADAMS BUT U NOT BETTER

YOUR DISCUSSIONS ARE ONE SENTENCE "THIS AUTHOT BETTER"< "NO FAGGOT THIS AUTHOR BETTER" WITH NOT ACTULA INTELIEGNT CONVERSATION GOING ON

OK THX< BYE

He's a larping brainlet. Dosto's prose is well known to be fairly dull, while Tolstoy's is widely considered to be one of the best, albeit with a penchant for overlong sentences with convoluted structure. There isn't even an argument here - it's a consensus as old as time both among the academics and the general public.

i wasn't saying that i speak russian and don't like tolstoy prose, my point is that people go into these threads just parroting what the "academics and the general public" say without any original thought.
>it's a consensus
exactly my point my point.

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>HAHA SUBSCRIBE AND DONATE TO JORDAN KERMITSTEIN

why do people keep trying to make this spurious connection?

Anyone interested in this topic would be better off reading Steiner's Tolstoy or Dostoevsky. All you're going to see in this thread is willful ignorance and status jockeying.

Here's a good review:

johnpistelli.com/2014/07/31/george-steiner-tolstoy-or-dostoevsky-an-essay-in-the-old-criticism/

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>absolute retard tier
Posting this

He didn't have the forceful genius of those two but imo Turgenev is a better novelist than either, his writing reads as naturally as breathing.
also he was homies with Flaubert

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I am Russian and used to read Dostoevsky and Tolstoy. Tolstoy and dosto prose equal in level of mastery, but at different levels. Dosto prose in word to word level is nothing special, but his mind constructs are appear from page to page. In 10 pages using ordinary sentences, he can create an incredibly lively and astounding picture. With that in mind i can say Tolstoy create such a picture in 10 words. In the details he has no competitors. I will not talk about the ideas that both authors preach, although I consider them beautiful, but in the sense of prose Tolstoy clearly wins, although the overall picture created by the whole work of Dostoevsky can hit you more than Tolstoy.

Хoтeлocь eщe cкaзaть пo пoвoдy pacпpocтpaнeннoгo cтepeoтипa, чтo y Дocтa в opигинaлe oтвpaтитeльнaя пpoзa. Этo нe тaк, пpocтo oнa oтличaeтcя cвoeoбpaзнoй эcтeтикoй, кoтopyю мoжнo лeгкo нe пoнять.

it's great to hear from a Russian user on the subject
do you have any comments on how the likes of Chekhov, Turgenev, Gogol stack up against those two in their native language?

She cute

The text of Gogol is read more like a poem, for example, in Dead Souls, you can see how he chose every word, what before him in Russian prose no one did, and, more than Pushkin, in my opinion, Gogol is the father of Russian literature. Turgenev is shit, he have excellent descriptions of space and things and sometimes he has interest stories, but I can fully agree with the opinion of Tolstoy, Nabokov and Joyas. He is not half as great as Flaubert was. Chekhov in my understanding is the genius of simplicity, brevity and graceful gray and little rough beauty. His dialogues, events and descriptions are inimitably simple and truthful.

If we compare these five, then Tolstoy, for me, at different stages of creativity, surpassed everyone. Dostoevsky, Gogol and Chekhov are approximately equal. Turgenev, for my taste, just developed some new techniques.

>Этo нe тaк, пpocтo oнa oтличaeтcя cвoeoбpaзнoй эcтeтикoй
Этa эcтeтикa зaключaeтcя в тoм, чтo oн нaливaл вoды, чтoбы cдaть мaтepиaл в пeчaть и пoлyчить дeньги.