Why do gamers all of a sudden have a problem with "politics in video games" while film goers never complain about...

gamers are crybabies. not complicated.

Most video game writing is shit compared to movies and tv, so instead of handling politics with nuance and subtlety, it gets hamfistedly written into the games. Also, a lot of indie devs and game journalists are uberpolitical and get up their own assholes with how deep they are.

most people just genuinely don't like gays

The whole #oscarssowhite campaign was black people chimping out. Because of them we only ever get meme picks as the Best Picture anymore.

>I have autism: The post

I don’t know how many times this needs to be stated. Leftism is a disease and inherently wrong. That’s why gamers complain. Stop shoving shit politics into everything. The world view is distorted and again, WRONG

This. Bioshock is the worst video game ever made, insulting based Rand should be punishable by death

> Mass Effect
> Political
Here's your problem OP: you're committing a motte and Bailey fallacy. People don't mind 22nd century off-the-wall space Illuminati vs. the Galactic Senate politics in videogames. What people mind is Fuck Xrumph, Save The Gayz 21st century politics in videogames.

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Film is too far gone. Video games are still young enough to be saved.

Why do weebs all of a sudden have a problem with "politics in anime" while film goers never complain about political themes in film?

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The only people I see having a problem with "politics in videogames" are reactionary, edgy, lonely and angry manchildren

Most people I know can handle political themes just fine

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because they weren't bad games and the politics weren't nearly as topical and stupid.
Also games didn't always have politics

you've inspired me to action man
I'm going to take a bucket of wet sponges down to the playground and sling them at a bunch of little kids, right in their little faces, and I don't care which of the zionist-infested alphabet agencies are reading
when those kids faces are damp the world will regret the day it has treated me

No one complains about political "themes" in games faggot. Its the politics surrounding the games that people complain about. This is also true of modern film. Your question is false

The issue is that, whether there's a causal link or not, the writing in games has become more progressive and inclusive while also becoming more shitty and less good.

Because video games aren't art

Well not political in the sense anyone complaining about politicized games mean, which is being ham fisted and sacrificing the entertainment by wanting to shove their personal politics down your throat.

Have you looked at the front page of Yea Forums?

Because trannies and pronouns is hardly actual politics

Retarded cunt.

there is more soul in this piece of art, than any movie or tv show made in the last 30 years
youtube.com/watch?v=Vb8b02474FM

None of those games are guilty of progressive propaganda

well yeabut it was well done and fun back then. now games are all like fucking horizon zero dawn or whatever. soulless schlocky stories with boring, derivative gameplay

cool bait image

Politics have always been in movies, the difference now is how you are supposed to treat it.

It used to be more of a take it or leave it proposition, it was what the story was about or perhaps even the message the director was trying to communicate but it was understood as an artistic statement. A related idea was that writers used to be allowed to write about things outside their "identity" and might even have characters do things they wouldn't necessarily agree with themselves.

Everything is kind of fucked now. We've reached the ridiculous situation where it is demanded you take Black Panther (despite a lack of any genuine political content) more seriously than Roots.

The deeper problem is that arts graduates, instead of fetching burgers, decided to apply to critical theory to politics and society. Critical theory is inherently destructive, which is fine when you are using it on Shakespeare, less so the family or community life or whatever.

What if he only does oral?

>All games shown handle political material in a mature, thoughtful way that isn't preachy or shoehorned in and doesn't feel like a bad political cartoon

There's your answer.

>BioShock is anti-Ayn Rand
>Beyond Good And Evil is environmentalist and anti-corporate
>so is FF7

no shit

This post and image are stupid because film goers do complain, and they usually complain about the same thing gamers are complaining: forced identity politics.

Nobody gives a shit if something has anti- or pro- war, capitalist, fascist, communist, religious, atheist themes, because usually people know how to do those with enough nuance not to bother the average person. But when it comes to identity politics, it seems like the only way to shove it in is by being as antagonistic to your audience and by making it stand out from the work as much as possible.

And usually that's the case because the decision to implement it is not honest. It doesn't come spontaneously from the writers, it's forced upon them by marketing departments.

cool it with the homophobic remarks

Not him but maybe maybe take the fact that those were all well-received popular games as a sign that gamers and audiences in general aren't the problem but identity politics are.

>anti ayn rand
Thats not progressive, just not retarded.

Also, why am i being warned for posting on fit one year ago with a connection ive been using for a month? And Im not even a faggot.

It's not progressive to shit on rand. Don't be silly.

Kys cum shitter

are trannies and blue haired women really politics

I don't really think it's an issue. Everything becomes more progressive over time. Conservatives of today would be uber-liberals three or four generations ago.

As for gaming becoming less good, it's probably your nostalgia goggles

Having a political message =/= forcing political ideologies

This

There is no nuance anymore. The other side MUST be the absolute epitome of evil

>Everything becomes more progressive over time.
History didn't start 100 years ago. Morals become more or less "progressive" all the time.

It's being used as a way to deflect criticism.

Film fags certainly do complain about it. The matter is that what people complain about is often "pop politics" full of really trite propaganda symbols and sensationalism. I don't think anyone has an issue when stuff is presented in a level sort of way that's thought provoking and doesn't come off like the media is barking orders at you.

Because reactionaries aren’t actually complaining about politics, they’re complaining about things that challenge their world views. That’s literally it.

I wonder what the Yea Forums boards about media will look like in five years, as movies, television, video games and comics become more and more diverse with no sign of slowing down or stopping.

Cringe. Video games will never be art. Have fun with your toys kiddie.

GAMERGATE BEGAN BECAUSE FEMOIDS WANTED TO DRIVE OUT TOXIC MASCULINITY FROM GAMING
AS IF THEY HAD ANY CLAIM TO THE BOYS CLUB OF GAMING

BUT GAMERS ROSE UP

>The matter is that what people complain about is often "pop politics" full of really trite propaganda symbols and sensationalism. I don't think anyone has an issue when stuff is presented in a level sort of way that's thought provoking and doesn't come off like the media is barking orders at you.
Agree

can i have the template for this pic?

Based and gamers will rise up again this October 4th

especially considering that there aren't 2 main political ideologies, there are 3: liberalism, fascism, and leftism. All three are completely incompatible with one another, but our stupid brain shoves everything into "us vs them" and you end up with incredibly stupid shit like "horseshoe theory" or "post modern cultural marxism", just completely nonsense.

>Because reactionaries aren’t actually complaining about politics, they’re complaining about things that challenge their world views. That’s literally it.
This is a very low IQ take. is more or less what happened.

>while film goers never complain about political themes in film?
Sure they do, look at Captain Marvel or the new Ghostbusters or any number of films that touched on or even marketed themselves with contemporary social issues. In both cases the issue isn't with the existence of political themes but with how they're handled; rather than explore issues in interesting and subtle ways, all of this big-name media adds nothing to the conversation while placing "the good guys" front-and-center as unquestionably good and mocking "the bad guys" for being bad and unquestionably silly. It's the difference between smart satire and your average newspaper comic, between the timeless and the topical, between conversation and preaching.

it's just because it's poorly done now and MUH LEFTIST CULTURAL MARXISM

anyways, is this bait for real?

>film goers never complain about political themes in film

Huh?

you sick fuck

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>no, my politics are not just my reaction to a world I don’t even try to understand
>they’re actually a reaction to the ways things have been since the 1930s, moron

This. Usually, politics you agree with go past unnoticed, and the ones you disagree with stick out like a sore thumb.

If anything, I'd say games are becoming less political because they need to appeal to more people and avoid shitstorms in order to be successful.

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because gamers are of sub-standard intelligence and could only notice politics when it was literally shown to them through the appearance of the characters. they previously - and still - tune out any and all subtext to the dialog or story not explicitly yelled at them by the main character

>Why do gamers all of a sudden have a problem with "politics in video games"
NO REASON AT ALL, according to media owned by companies selling games.

Maybe you should not expect quality political commentary from big blockbusters

I'm pretty sure people do complain about politics in film

It’s the weirdest damned thing. Video games have the sort of market share where they can really challenge their audiences and push conventions with little pushback, and yet, there’s not a single mainstream hit release that’s as daring as something like, Sorry to Bother You, Get Out or Blackkklansman.

In your opinion, there is no such a thing as "politics done right" and "politics done wrong"? Is the way politics is presented in LOGH the same thing as the way politics is presented in the last episodes of the Simpsons?
Is it the case that whatever our corporate overlords tell us to believe, in whatever way they want us to believe is good and holy and should not be criticized because doing so would mean we don't want things that challenge our views?

this is a fact.

BioShock literally showing a libertarian paradise get consumed by unregulated greed. -> not political

A game has a black person in it -> political

>BioShock
>Fallout
>MGS
>DeusEx
>not political

Is this a bait?

>Samefagging
Yikes

There is a difference between good political writing and bad political writing.

Good political writing is something that explores a theme and presents an argument for why they think that. It tries to reflect societal themes.

Bad political writing is shallow propaganda that seeks to indoctrinate you to a point of view. It isn't even persuasive and it doesn't reflect societal themes. It beats you round the head with what you should think.

Most of the games in the photo build a world and discuss themes without making you feel like this is what you must think.

Every game should let you design your own character and choose from all varieties of factions. Boom, problem solved.

Like I said, I’m excited about five years from now, coming to Yea Forums to talk about the Breaking Bad spin-off about Badger and Skinny Pete that is DEFINITELY coming, and see folks like you continue to whine and cry and bitch about how the world keeps passing you by, and how nothing’s made for you anymore. I’m not kidding, by the way, I really am honestly looking forward to that. Cause man, having diverse writers, actors, directors, etc. is a process that’s only gonna speed up.

It is a "political games always existed, stop complaining about SJW politics in games" thread.
Except that politics was actually done in a much better way in the likes of Bioshock, MGS and Deus Ex than in preachy SJW games.

>gamers
>gamers
>gamers
Why are you upset about something that died in 2014? They have been extinct for 5 years now, let them rest in peace :(

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Cope. People are complaining about politics in video games, not politics in video games done right. Poltards whine and yelp at any inclusion of a "diverse" person no matter how well it was done or appropriate for the story

Naaahh, retard. Looks at films or videogame with political subtext these days they are poorly written. It has nothing to do with reactionaries, dum dum. Right wingers have no issues playing games like half life or Deus ex.

Because the narratives of Bioshock, MGS, etc. didn’t challenge your worldview.

what do you mean they were done in a better way?

what preachy sjw games are you referring to?

You didn't answer any of my questions, did you? Notice that I didn't say anything about "diversity".
So, let's think about the questions again:
Is there no such a thing as "good writing" and "bad writing" when it comes to politics? Should we support anything our corporate overlords want us to believe and no matter how they do it?

The double standards Yea Forums cancer gets on here is absolutely amazing

They don’t have issues with those games because the narratives don’t challenge their worldviews in explicit ways. You know, like they would be if they had to play a PoC or a woman.

Not that guy, but if films get less shitty than they have been for like ten years then I'm okay with that. They don't have to pander to my identity, just stop making 100 garbage flicks for every half-decent one.

that'sthejoke.jpg

Because the politics became shit like trannys and DRUMPF

I didn’t answer your questions, cause I’m just interested in laughing at you idiots. There’s nothing for me to get out of trying to talk to you, so why should I?

>video games can never be art, but this thing where grown adults play dress up and pretend is totally art
LMFAO

>Cope. People are complaining about politics in video games, not politics in video games done right.
Not really. So much that the games mentioned are well liked.

I was a libertarian when Bioshock came out. I was OK with it.

There's a difference between dealing with politics and being political
A game like Bioshock offers a light exploration of capitalistic principles taken to the extreme, but it doesn't come off like it was written by a bunch of people who were butthurt that we don't live in a completely anarcho-capitalistic libertation society

>I didn’t answer your questions, cause I’m just interested in laughing at you idiots. There’s nothing for me to get out of trying to talk to you, so why should I?
Or you don't really have a proper answer to those questions.
Just say a "yes" or "no".
Is there no such a thing as "good writing" and "bad writing" when it comes to politics?
Should we support anything our corporate overlords want us to believe and no matter how they do it?

>film in the past ten years has been shitty
There are movies aside from superheroes and blockbusters. Movies have been as good as they ever have been, and people have been making that same lame excuse as yours going backwards into time. Even the fucking Greeks were complaining about the next generation, and how they were squandering everything, and how shitty the new plays were. This song and dance never fucking ends.

The fact that you were libertarian and were okay with Bioshock says all I need to say about how that game doesn’t challenge shit.
Blow me.

>Movies have been as good as they ever have been
Not really.

> Even the fucking Greeks were complaining about the next generation, and how they were squandering everything
Could you provide a source?

if your takeaway from bioshock was that it was pro capitalism i dont know what to tell you

>Blow me.
No. Answer the questions.
Is there no such a thing as "good writing" and "bad writing" when it comes to politics?
Should we support anything our corporate overlords want us to believe and no matter how they do it?

Settle down Morgana

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Attributed to Socrates.

So people noticing how things have been declining since antiquity is Lindy? Haha... I kid, I kid. I don't necessarily think we're on an incorrectable downward spiral, just a slump. At least hopefully.

>muh high school tier intro to philosphy is the same as politics
fuck off basedfag

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>answer the questions
Make me

Socrates never said that. This is a fake quote.

Hated most of those game because of their degenerate worldviews.

I agree with the slump thing, but great art comes out of times of adversity. Look at the twenties, thirties and sixties. Besides, there’s still good shit around, just gotta look.

Why is Yea Forumseddit cancer fine with this, but when we discuss politics in films they beg for the mods and get the thread axed?

>The vast majority of any medium goes towards the common denominator.
>Trashy paperbacks, AAA games, blockbuster films etc.
>99% of what people are complaining about is bad writing.
>A lot of kids doing creative degrees write bad stories with no nuance about their beliefs.
>Internet has only made it worse because everyone is a writer even if their prose and ideas are tired.
>Really easily to write about controversial politics and get attention even if your writing is bad.

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your questions are irrelevant, and this repeating yourself to "drive home the point" is like autism peacocking

all these "corporate overlords" want is for people to buy their shit. they're not trying to shape public opinion as much as theyre trying to appeal to the broadest amount of people possible.

it just so happens the best way theyve found to do that at the moment is to be as inclusive and combatant about identity politics as possible

applying this in a chronological way, as if theres been some kind of measurable drop in the actual quality of creative political writing, is retarded in lots of ways im not gonna bother going into

sounds like a fake quote too, even down to the fake social idiosyncrasies inserts

>Make me
Pretty please with sugar on top. Now answer them:
Is there no such a thing as "good writing" and "bad writing" when it comes to politics?
Should we support anything our corporate overlords want us to believe and no matter how they do it?

Okay, here’s a bunch of other people from way in the past complaining about the youth that’s totally out of control

historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/

B
L
O
W

ME

"PROGRESSIVE" MEANS THEY ARE CONTINUALLY DEGENERATING

ZOOMERS ARE THE WORST YET

>all these "corporate overlords" want is for people to buy their shit. they're not trying to shape public opinion as much as theyre trying to appeal to the broadest amount of people possible.
Do you really believe this or is this just to win the argument? I have seen media executives saying they were losing money by pushing politics but that they would keep doing it.

what possible motivation would they have for doing that? whats the end plan there for the businesses hemorrhaging money pushing ideas that no one really believes in?

All the adults that told you that you’re gifted and that you have limitless potential were lying to you.

Not the user you're responding to, but times of splendor have great art too

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so this is the power of autism... woah...

>all these "corporate overlords" want is for people to buy their shit. they're not trying to shape public opinion as much as theyre trying to appeal to the broadest amount of people possible.
When people say shit like this I think you're forgetting that people's motives are varied. It is a very easy fallacy to fall back on the whole "Everyone cares about money only!" Money clearly isn't motivating people to argue in this thread and even rich people are not beyond these motives.

Some people want to appeal to different groups. Use controversy for attention. Make money. Others do want to make games that matter, win awards, get critical attention. Some people want to spread propaganda.

If people only cared about money then we would only have mobile games.

i wish the jews would stop ruining films and video games by putting black people and queers and women in them

I LITERALLY GOT INTO MENSA

Yes. It was a popular quote to defend the hippies in the 1960's but it is a very fake one. Anyone with any knowledge of Socrates would know that it is a fake quote.

Aristotle didn't complain about the generation of his era, but rather mentioned how young people in general behave, no matter in which era.
Also, sometimes society gets better and sometimes it gets worse. Or do you believe in constant progress?

>the system is set up in a way that makes games that are too political fail

You are proving his point, to be honest

>what possible motivation would they have for doing that? whats the end plan there for the businesses hemorrhaging money pushing ideas that no one really believes in?
They believe they are doing what is morally right.
The idea that "maximizing firm value" should be the primary goal of corporations is not popular among progressive business types.

Yeah, because having a negro or a woman as main character for the sake of the diversity will challenge their world view. It's lazy and they're just pandering. Give me a good political game with Women or POC

How so? I'm claiming that sending political messages is not done for the sake of profit.

>Also, sometimes society gets better and sometimes it gets worse. Or do you believe in constant progress?
I think society exists. I don’t think there was ever a point in which it was good or bad, except for a very, very small group of people that get to live like gods, leaching off of the wealth produced through the labor of others. Sometimes things are slightly better for the proles and sometimes they’re much, much worse. But better or worse, who’s to say? The European Dark Ages were a time of great knowledge and discovery throughout Asia, but in Europe and in Asia? The proles suffering while the elite feast, so...

In your opinion, access to material wealth is the only thing that makes a society good or bad?

All art is political, my dude, and all videogames are art.

This is always good. Explain to me the politics of Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland.

Art is open to many interpretations, don't be such an autistic.

No, access to the necessities of life, from which one can live is what makes society good or bad. What good is it to me, barely getting by, that Jeff Bezos gets to live like a god, doing a bare percentage of the work of those in his warehouses?

games, at least games people give a shit about, made by major studios and sold on major consoles, are not produced if they arent projected to make money. any controversy, intentional or not, drummed up after the fact is just post-hoc marketing

really, the fact that sometimes a grain of artistic or political vision can pass through the sieve of this corporate apparatus is just a consequence more than any kind of desired effect. it's a bone thrown to the creative types who actually work on these kinds of games. if it doesnt run directly counter to the profit motive then its allowed to propagate
ive seen absolutely 0 evidence that this is the case. in fact, everything i know about the economic system that we live in tells me the opposite is true

I would like to know the politics of Pacman. And of "The King of Fighters 98".

go back and stop spamming faggot

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I haven't played those games. Give me something else

GAMERGATE WAS ABOUT THE GENTRIFICATION OF THE NERDOSPHERE

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I actually probably could, I just do not remember enough to form a coherent narrative. I dunno, man. I can’t teach you an intro to literary theory in a series of posts.

Bioshock and Bioshock 2 have much better writing than Watch Dogs 2 and Mafia 3 user. It's not as black and white as you'd like to think it is. Before you start foaming at the mouth to accuse me of being a racist sexist game Drumpf supporter, Watch Dogs 2 is equally critical of both parties but the writing still isn't very good and will seem embarrassingly dated 10 or even 5 years from now.

So, just so we can be on the same page, in your opinion, what makes a society good is how much wealth most people in that society can get?

Of course of course.

It literally challenges the worldview that white, male protagonists are the standard. It's a deliberate break from tradition.
Conservatives don't like traditions being broken, so it's only natural there would be such a reaction.

art includes context, and whether you acknowledge it or not, is shaped by the circumstances of its creators

those circumstances which are, as all allocations of resources are, political

im really happy to be able to introduce you to the concepts of abstraction and critical thinking

There is no issues with politics in games. It's not even about what the politics are. No one gives a shit that you're introducing a trans-gendered (mentally ill person) character or what ever.

The issue is how they push the agenda. I mean it's a few things, they push it as a pitch, bringing attention to it. Then they push their agenda where it's all black and white, nothing is grey, and it's not even up for discussion, they are right and you are wrong. youtube.com/watch?v=G8akM5pAlNg sums it up best, even more so of why is "it depends on the circumstances" even an option??.

Then there is how they make these characters where you first meet them and straight up these charters go off on you "HEY DID YOU KNOW I AM GAY? I LIKE TO SUCK COCK, ISN'T THAT NICE? SURE, I'LL HELP YOU SAVE THE WORLD, THERE MIGHT BE SOME GAY GUYS I CAN PICKUP ON THE WAY LOL"

And then they keep bringing it up, "Hey I'm gay you know" "sure, as the gay guy to do that" "you know, before I was gay..." their whole fucking character is just based around that fact.

With the political agendas it's just a shit load of people being "woke" in the game and never having options to discuss it or if you do, you are wrong.

Alright so explain the politics of Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland.

I think the worst part of this era of political trolling is that we can all be aware that you’re trolling, point it out, and try to have fun with it, but you’ll only respond with the same soulless unfunny bait because you don’t know how to reply in a creative way. It’s so boring compared to the golden years of trolling. Your job could be done by AI

My radical left-wing PhD history professor friend told me that political power is more important than economics. He wants direct democracy instead of a bunch of free shit.

No, what matters is that everyone has the ability to feed, clothe and shelter themselves. Access to healthcare and education, actual access not the American ‘in theory’ we have the best healthcare and education in the world, are also incredibly important but, food, clothes and shelter. Money and wealth don’t factor into it.

>ive seen absolutely 0 evidence that this is the case. in fact, everything i know about the economic system that we live in tells me the opposite is true
In Business Schools, they usually teach in "Business Ethics" classes that "maximizing shareholder value" is not a good aim for business.

bioshock was never good

the power of autism... in the palm of my hand

There are plenty of quality YouTube channels you can check out that will help you get into literary criticism, if you're interested. I think Harvard offers classes like that on YouTube for free.

Is this the thread where incel neets discuss what's best for the rest of the world?

>argument from authority
Okay, and that’s just your professor. So what? What was his name? Where does he teach?

I'd rather you do it yourself but I know you won't since this is the laziest trolling attempt I've ever seen.
>Make grand sweeping statement
>When people ask you to elaborate, imply they're stupid
It's all so boring and rote, I'm just sad at how far the state of trolling has fallen.

When people say they don't want "politics", what they mean is they don't want a bunch of gay nigger shit everywhere. Everything is basically political on some level. Super Mario Bros is political. It presupposes the legitimacy of monarchy. That doesn't mean I want to hear about your transcock.

And a very bored and underemployed user with an English lit degree.

So, in your opinion, a richer society where people have access to all that is necessarily a better society? This is what defines a good or bad society?

When people say "everything is political", they're not saying every piece of media there's ever been has been deliberately made with politics in mind.
They're saying the creative process of artists is naturally tinted by the society they live in. That's why studying art can make you better understand the politics of a given era.
It's a useful intellectual tool for understanding stuff, but it can also, like every piece of knowledge ever produced by mankind, be used for stupid takes

im not gonna write you an essay on kirby nightmare in dreamland
look at the main creative forces behind it, look at the country, culture and time period it was made in, look at the people who worked on it, look at it from a marxist point of view, from a feminist point of view, from a baathist point of view, etc
just because it wasnt creative with the intention of "changing the world" doesnt mean it didnt. it obviously did.
i really hate to be this guy, but ive been to "business school" and it included one semester long class about a businesses social responsibility, but nothing about pushing transgender acceptance or interracial marriage

so if you could find me any kind of external source for this id appreciate it

Why are there so many insufferable faggots in this thread?

It isn't an argument from authority. It's a half-remembered anecdote from a drunken conversation and I was hoping that you'd reciprocate with something interesting.

>When people say everything is political they don't mean everything is political
So lit majors use English wrong and don't know how to say what they mean?

I’m not teaching you an entire semester’s worth of material, chief. If you’re actually interested, just google the phrase. All art is political.

Difference between exploring political topics and pushing an agenda.

I don't think you have conservative friends in real life. Most conservative I know have no problem playing games like Mass Effect 1 and that game has race mixing, homosexuality, POC. I don't know where you live but you need to meet more people if you think that way.

>greedy monarch takes all of the kingdom's food

A society where everyone is clothed, has shelter and food, while having access to healthcare and an education is superior to one in which percentages of the human population don’t have those things by necessity of prevailing economic theory.
I gotcha, sorry. Had a heated gamer moment.

words can have more than one meaning as it turns out, and sometimes they can be quite abstract

maybe spend a couple more years on see spot run before you graduate up to junie b jones

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See, this trolling is so boring and it always falls apart the instant you ask for specifics and goes into deflection and passive aggressiveness. Look, I know you want (you)s so I'll give them to you if you really want them, but no more. Just know that there's nothing but pity in my heart for dopamine addicts.
That's Kirby's Dreamland 1 not Nightmare in Dreamland

No, they use that phrase in a way that's not the most immediately intuitive.

>i really hate to be this guy, but ive been to "business school" and it included one semester long class about a businesses social responsibility, but nothing about pushing transgender acceptance
The point here is not that they teach which causes to support in business schools. But that they teach people that "making your shareholders richer" should not be the biggest aim of a company. That is, it is not because executives do something that they are necessarily thinking about maximizing shareholder value when doing so.

>Everything can mean just some things
I'm looking at every dictionary I can find and I don't see that definition. Could you show me the dictionary where it says that?

Okay, sorry, now that I’ve actually read your post, I would say that one leads to the other. Having access to political power (and I mean here having the ability to participate in politics by voting, polling, etc) would necessarily lead to better access to material needs. At least, that’s my off the cuff assessment.

its just euphemism for “sjw shit” which Yea Forums complains about all the time too.

>A society where everyone is clothed, has shelter and food, while having access to healthcare and an education is superior to one in which percentages of the human population don’t have those things by necessity of prevailing economic theory.
OK, now we are on the same page. I disagree with you that economics is the only thing that makes a society good or bad. There is more for humans than just consumption. A society can at the same time get richer, less unequal and also get worse.

Discussing a political topic within a game is different from applying a political bias to the production of a game. It's a difference which is easy to miss when you just reduce a game to a single sentence but a difference which consumers intuitively understand.

If you were actually interested in learning how all art is political, you would google it and found out for yourself. World doesn’t revolve around you buddy, and I’m not typing out a bunch of shit about Roland Barthes and the like cause you want me to. Sorry, look it up yourself.

gamers are traditionally two categories

jock type males who love sports game, fighter games, and first person shooters.

other guys who may like fps games, but really enjoy science fiction games, anime tier games, fantasy games, etc....

the jock chads may still play some games, but not much... that leaves the rest who always were the core of gaming, they did not assimilate into adult hood as well.

This has put them in further isolation and as a result of that, gaming is the only escape/refuge from a world that they cant fit in with.

These gamers do not want the latest sjw trend or normie pop culture garbage in their games.

Its kind of like how an avid reader would feel about 50 shades of grey books, as if that shit was being funnelled a little bit of all new literary books.

movie goers tend to be people who really get their identity from the public mass, they go along to get along, that is their default... they are also followers rather then leaders...

RIP Matt Zillmer, who in 2005 stood up and said "oh my god, you gotta be kidding me, this is the lamest shit" when Peter Parker got the girl at the end of Spiderman... surprisingly, many of the audience laughed.

that could never happen today, he would been scolded by marvel drones.

I'm what you might call a "conservative", and Metroid Prime is possibly my favourite game. Do I think a woman should be a space bounty hunter in real life? No, probably not. But it's not fucking real, is it?

i know weve reached a point in this conversation where youve stopped being able to engage meaningfully with what im saying, and so youll just imply that im acting in bad faith, but i really hope you use this as an opportunity to expand your understanding of the world, as well as how art shapes and is shaped by the conditions we live in

thanks, good night
you mean the difference in something being actively versus passively political? the difference in something being influenced by contemporary society, versus directly attempting to influence it? you need me to explain that in more detail to you? should i get my colored pencils out of my bedazzled fanny pack?

the only smart post in this whole thread

> A society can at the same time get richer, less unequal and also get worse.
Absolutely. My wording could be a lot better and more precise. Like, a lot of Chinese history is representative of just that, great concentrated wealth surrounded by suffering and misery. I do think there’s far more about human life, I just think you have better access to enriching activities like art, literature, film and the like, when you don’t have to worry about food, clothes, shelter, education or medicine. Like, I’m not advocating we all just have our neat little cubes and take Soma all day.

>if it doesnt run directly counter to the profit motive then its allowed to propagate
The thing you're forgetting is that people don't always know what will make money. And people, older people especially, have less clue about internet bubbles and how they effect your perception of popularity.

So even though they are trying to make money it doesn't mean that they are only throwing a bone to creative people. They can genuinely feel that something is popular based on online bubbles and market certain political visions to these groups that they themselves believe.

And this is why a lot of these problems are happening. It is easy to say, all games are made to make money. But what makes money always isn't known to people. And if you have an industry with a very incestuous journalism then it isn't always apparent about what will be popular.

And this is the core issue here. Companies exist to make money but how will they know what will make money? If you fill a company with a certain sort of people who read certain sites online then they will make certain types of games in the belief that these games will make money and service their beliefs.

It's not "politics". It's anyone deciding to put non-mayo dudes in their game.

The politics were universal and handled in a way that didn't detract from the work. For example, oddworld's anti-corporate message isn't done by having an orange glukkon with a toupe say he's gonna make oddworld great again.

Dopamine

DAS RITE

ROASTYS OUT!

Sonic the Hedgehog isn't a white man.

thnx fren

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This thread has turned out surprisingly civil. Pretty good.

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Why did Milana have to cut her hair and hit the wall

Coming back to that point. Sometimes, society gets better and sometimes it get worse. Suppose that Cicero complained that Rome was decadent. It would not be a case that "people always complained about decadence, no matter when". Rome WAS decadent in Cicero's time.
And right now we are living in a decadent era.

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its a real tragedy that healthcare is becoming so unattianable for a large amount of Americas, Bernies idea is neat, but it wont ever happen.

Obama tried, but 4 of the state exhanges failed within 3 years, all his plan did was jack up the rates of boomer and gen x americans to subsidize the poor people of all generations.

I often daydream if I would have a normie life had i been able to get healthcare when I needed it, which i still do, but at the same time... its too late, damage is done, mentally and physically.

i hope my karma is decent enough where i dont have to come back to this planet when i die, i firmly believe this is hell.

Because all the other ones have narratives exploring a theme. The last one is a false equivalency because that is an issue of gender bending someone purely for political reasons.

Taking the hard won real fight of a small group of men and turning it into a hamfisted blockbuster of a single woman .

One is a story exploring various political themes about society. The other is inserting someone into a situation to make a point.

I think some areas of the world are living through decadent times, and most other areas of the world are living in abject squalor with climate change about to make their lives a whole lot worse.

its not decadent for a lot of people, many people are going without healthcare and they need it.

if you broke your back before you left your home town, your life would be hell, if you got chrons disease and you couldnt eat at all if you wanted to try to work, decadent is not how you would describe your existence.

but yes... there is a lot of the best standard of living that the world has seen ever going on right now, but there is also the "tale of two americas" going on at the same time.

The wire tv show was based on the "tale of two americas" news story.

I think if everyone gets out to the polls next year and votes, I think we could get Medicare For All. But man, don’t give up on yourself. There’s low to no cost medical and mental care available all over the states, take care of yourself. You can recover.

>all this fucking Melvining
No one cares about ancient Rome, Melvin!

Ah, yes, I'm talking about the West. I don't know much about other areas of the world.

"Decadent" is not an adjective with a positive meaning. By decadent, I mean the definition of "characterized by or reflecting a state of moral or cultural decline."

i dont completely disagree with this, but it sort of ignores the fact that a large percentage of funding in a consumer based industry goes towards market research, focus groups, polls, surveys etc

for example, in my estimation, its not like activision, the multi billion dollar llc, is saying stuff like "we need the gamers to like transgenders", its that an art designer (you know art school kids, their hearts are in the right place generally) had the idea to make a trans character, and then the voice from up high looked at the spreadsheet and said "that will not actively hurt the amount of money we make, so you can"

and from there you get the kind of ridiculous positing that claims like these billion dollar companies actually give any kind of a fuck about what we do, as long as we keep funneling money into them

again, id appreciate any reading you have on the topic, because my first hand experience is very different

i was taught that, within the confines of the law, you should act in any possible way to maximize the return on investment. they fluff it up with some other stuff, but that's the general idea

this is pretty bang on.

Most the shit I play, watch read and enjoy generally have some sort of political themes, but it's when it's pushed overtly and shoe horned in over the gameplay or enjoyment of the media that i usually have issues with it.

Most people who make, play, and most importantly: review games are profoundly stupid and insecure. The problem isn't that video games are political; their themes just aren't handled with any sort of nuance. They're politics-shaped.

Attempting to provide social commentary through children's entertainment is always going to be a fool's errand.

>I think if everyone gets out to the polls next year and votes, I think we could get Medicare For All

1. That's a dream and will be met with extreme backlash in legislation.

2. Such a thing likely would cause more bureaucratic issues along with prices fluctuating.

More govt. isn't always the solution.

That's the entire joke of OP's image brainlet, they're all deeply political games

Look for any Business Ethics textbook or the Corporate Social Responsibility area of business.
I frankly think it is mostly stuff that is popular because it gives more power to those reading it (instead of working for the shareholders, they can work in their pet causes as long as they are not losing a lot of money)

>"that will not actively hurt the amount of money we make

PATRICK, PLS

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this post betrays an extremely shallow understanding of the levers of american politics, and i ask you respectfully to delete it for the sake of the threads decorum

Deep man deep you ever do DMT?

Hey, Jamie, pull up the gorilla video I like

Jesus. Can you imagine if they were like, doing bench presses and really you know, working out? Goddamn.

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>consumer based industry goes towards market research, focus groups, polls, surveys etc
Of course these things exist but they are not all knowing exact sciences. And you have to remember that unlike other industries, most game companies are not doing this to such a large degree as other companies. All this stuff cuts into their bottom line. The average title will not have as much market research as you think and you're really only talking about a handful of big companies that would do this.

The problem is that a lot of these companies had people join them and change the company culture, not at a higher level but at an art director level. A lot of people moving from say video game journalism into games. Or from indie game scenes into these companies. And like any other industries it is about who you know.

The problem is less top down, billion dollar companies demanding that certain politics be in games. But more bottom up, where like minded people end up in these companies wanting to discuss these specific ideas. And when a big flop happens they seem to quick to attack the consumer market instead of having to look at themselves and what they are producing.

Why the fuck are we not allowed to discuss politics in hollywood yet Yea Forumseddit teens can have a 200 post thread thats been up for several hours?

Yea Forums doesn't have a problem with politics per se. They have a problem with forced bullshit.
Do you think Yea Forums has a problem with Fear Effect because it has lesbians and stronk women? No, they like Fear Effect because it was fun. For that matter, they don't have problems with colored characters either. They just want shit that isn't forced down their throats. Nowadays, everything is forced down their throats. Developers and journalists go about trying to make good with SJWs and the always offended, making posts and articles about how progressive they are for including so and so, when they really weren't even the first. Sometimes the devs go so far as to sacrifice the quality of the game just to have good goy points.
Yea Forums still have about the same kind of general audience as videogames, otherwise there wouldn't have been a backlash on that Gillette commercial.
Yea Forums otoh, are cucked.

Because your mom just can’t get enough of my dick.

Also anyone can tell the difference between a character who was just designed to be a good character, vs one who was designed by someone who thinks they're doing something "really important", and the second type doesn't make for fun characters.
>oh man, it's a black woman doing a traditional white man's job, and now she's reminding you how bad slavery was, and humiliating a Neo Nazi. Am I challenging your biases and turning your world upside down?
No. It's just annoying.

This

I have a problem when politics take over a medium, instead of just acting like minor background flavor text. In other words, story heavy games and artsy fartsy indie movies go right into the garbage.

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>Why the homophobia?

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HOMOPHOBIA?!? When someone uses the word "faggot" it's not always towards someone who sucks dicks, although you probably do, it's to signify that someone is the antithesis of masculinity, which is what you are, faggot!!!FACT!!!

>Also anyone can tell the difference between a character who was just designed to be a good character, vs one who was designed by someone who thinks they're doing something "really important", and the second type doesn't make for fun characters.
Good characters feel like well rounded people that do good and bad things. They are humanised and feel real. They have a variety of traits and make mistakes.

Most bad "political" characters are perfect people with quips out of a Joss Whedon project, who have far too much exposition (telling you, not showing you) and are generally bad asses.

Calm the fuck down.

this sort of reinforces my point though
that dude lost his job as soon as his stance started costing his company money
maybe it was a miscalculated risk, maybe it was a legitimate moral stance, maybe it was completely unrelated, but by all accounts this is the market acting as its supposed to
you can say all this, that it starts from the bottom up, but then what are you really criticizing? the fact that creative kids out of art colleges tend to be much more progressive in their politics than they were in the past?

if you consider that to be a "problem" than its a lot more broad a problem than most people are considering when they think of this 'culture war' horseshit. it really becomes a storm in a kettle

>bioshock
Capitalism/Ayn Rand criticism
>Fallout 1
Capitalism/Patriotic criticism
>MGS3
World politics of the time
>Vampire
Never played it
>Call of Duty
Middle East politics/Black Ops/Shadow War
>Deus Ex
You must be either brain dead or jerking me off with soiled toilet paper. Nigger, it's about a shadow organization controlling the world just to name ONE major point among many.
>Beyond
Never played it
>FF7
Fighting an authoritarian government.
>Mass Effect
Dealing with the UN in SPACE, and multi species interactions.
>Oddworld
Never played it.

So out of 10, 7 have definite themes you would be absolutely be shitting the bed over if 1) you never played them before, 2) released today and 3) just had a mere singular mention of whiteness/maleness/americanness/anything you are a label of-ness.

It's only "simple" with your rose tinted nostalgia glasses sonny. Nothing the past was simple or nice or fun. It's all a delusion from your station in life and current situation in the world. Grow the fuck up, play these games if you want but stop being a pussy ass bitch about how current year is worse than the good old days.

Also this. Imagine game journalists. Those fucking idiots can't even be competent at playing games, something which they should be at least good at:
youtube.com/watch?v=UujtfN7hCdo
youtube.com/watch?v=d3pQ0oO_cDE
youtube.com/watch?v=zbE6fqBuGkA

Not to mention their reviews isn't even about the game anymore. They fucking insert their identity politics in their reviews. Compare that to game journalists in those magazines from >10 years ago, and you'd see that they're screwing around but still at least competent when playing and still talk whether the game is fun and worth buying or not.

you dont have to like this, but you have to respect it

Retard or troll?

>Calm the fuck down.

NOOOO, I'LL CHAINSAW YOUR FUCKING ASSHOLE THROUGH TO YOUR SKULL AND CHEW ON YOUR BRAINS YOU COCK SUCKING NIGGER KIKE WOP FAGGOT!!!FACT!!!

No one tell him

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>BioShock is anti-Ayn Rand
>Not wanting to live in Rapture
Faggot

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tell me what

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There's a difference between a plot of a piece having political undertones and someone using the medium to push a political agenda. You could have a game that has various nations with various different political systems to show their weaknesses and strengths, or you could have a bunch of interracial couples, gays, trannies, etc. and then say "anyone who doesn't like it is a bigot." See the difference? It's like internal vs external in a way.

>people liked Bioshock for the politics
Wrong
>people liked Bioshock for the cool settings and visual designs, while mostly ignoring Ken Levine's pretentious wankery about things he doesn't really understand
FACT

How did this thread get to over 200 on Yea Forums? Jannies have one job to do and they can’t even do that right. Go back to Yea Forums faggots

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>but then what are you really criticizing?
The fact that diverse stories are being culled by a very incetuous industry. This is impacting everything from quality to what is being produced.

It starts bottom up but then slowly these people have more and more influence until they are managers and have controlling positions. I don't like any sort of monopoly being built by one group of people.

>than its a lot more broad a problem than most people are considering when they think of this 'culture war' horseshit
I am not really talking about culture wars bullshit more about company culture and how that can be manipulated. The industry has really gone through a lot of changes from smaller cottage industry style game what it is now. Some of these changes are just based on popularity but others feel more foced.

>it really becomes a storm in a kettle
It isn't really about anger, more a general disillusionment with the direction they have gone. I just think the industry has taken so many missteps. And this misstep plays into all the others.

People are more likely to agree with generic political messages like "war is bad" and "the rich are too powerful" if you don't go full retard. Its the same reason why the far right and the far left think John McCain dying was good. Unity in the bush era was easier to come across because no one wanted the US fucking around in Iraq except retarded boomers.

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Both cringe.

THIS IS BEYOND BLACKFACE

DID THIS HOMO LITERALLY BLACKED HIMSELF HEAD TO TOE LMAO LEAFS

Jeremy Hambly mind-control?

>>people liked Bioshock for the cool settings and visual designs, while mostly ignoring Ken Levine's pretentious wankery about things he doesn't really understand

This is the only reason I liked it. I don't like Randian asswipes or their shitty "philosophy"!!!FACT!!!

>How did this thread get to over 200 on Yea Forums? Jannies have one job to do and they can’t even do that right. Go back to Yea Forums faggots

They're too busy banning me for 6 FUCKNG DAYS for saying "nigger". OH FUCK, A NIGGER JUST NIGGERED HIS NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER %$@#$^^&(*)))!!!FACT!!!

I know he does something based once in his life and that is the end of him. Not the groping, not the corruption. And it is beautiful. A retard hoisted by his own petard

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im not going to say or deny anything about these 'culled ideas', i dont follow the games industry very closely

id say that i think that, ideally, a person with an interesting idea can get it into the hands of interested people, but the economic reality of game creation taking so many resources to produce and market makes that really hard to scale up.

i consider the issue of the lack of artistic principle in games sort of a a condition of the commercial space that the medium occupies right now

youve given me a fair bit to think about, good night

Good night.

This is also a good point. You can play a game that has great game play or atmosphere and ignore the plot, while ignoring the plot of a movie is much more difficult.

I hate how these memes go straight into smugposting and over analyzing instead of just making fun of seething incels.

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They're made by redditors so they'll always have a desperate need to make sure you know how smart they are.

>my thoughts are nuanced, but yours arent

etc etc etc etc. just play some video games before you die you faggot.

>while film goers never complain about political themes in film?

Filmgate/Moviegate when?

I wanna do coke off of your hard dick

We had this thread yesterday, nigger

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liberals are insufferable faggots with how they add shit to a game
they dont just add women
they add women they scream how #MenAreOver

Have you ever considered how luscious your mom’s ass is? Cause I don’t have to imagine.

Quick, post well written faggot characters

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movie watchers by and large don't even speak the language of the movie's they see, they don't notice political propaganda because they just want to see special effects.

>TRANNYS PRETENDING TO BE ROASTYS
WHAT A SHITSHOW LMAO

STOP LOSING EA MONEY WITH UR SJW FAGGOTRY PATRICK

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Wouldn't say "well written" but certainly entertaining.

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The real problem is people trying to tell stories through games.

Games are a shit way to tell a story.

They're good for GENERATING stories, but telling them? I'd rather watch a movie.

Why do games always have to kill nazis?

There should be more "edgy" video games, like ones where Nazis are the good guys or your job is to gentrify a neighborhood through any means necessary.

Sneed

>reactionaries
kys you socdem nigger

Not entirely true, but uncovering a game's story should turn you into a detective of sorts. Analysing the environment for clues, collecting documents, uncovering the correct dialogue trees. It's when a game just completely limits your freedom and interactivity, and shows you a movie, that it has failed at it's own genre.

>wanting to play a g*rm

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there is a difference between politics and "political crap" basically.

Because most video game writers have failed to be movie writers who first failed to be novelists.

It takes a lot of brain power to understand how to write a good story. It takes a lot of brain power to create new interesting gameplay mechanics. It's even harder to link the two in a way that isn't jarring.

It takes a lot of brain power to understand the subtitles of political issues. You have to be able to understand both sides to try to fix it or write a good story about it. This makes it even harder to integrate into a game.

So we end up with a shitty game that's just another third person shooter, or hardly even a game, where a character jumps out and says "I'm gay!" and even the gay players cringe.

And of course it's always about issues that some middle class Californian cares about on twitter like pronouns, and not something substantial like stopping slavery in countries that still have it or something.

Good point. """"""""""politics"""'""""" in games and flicks is often neoliberal "woke capital" bullshit that people can smell from ten miles away and is meant to cast a wide net for consumers, however misguided. People can tell when a political message is genuine.

Example of politics in games I like:
>A govt should serve its people, not the other way around

What I, and most people here don't like:
>If you dont want to let transgender refugees live in your neighborhood, then FUCK YOU BIGOT

Film has been corrupted for much longer. We're just used to it by now.

Politics at games aren't bad
Political statement about contemporary politics is bad because:
1) Not everyone lives in 1 place
2) It ages like shit under the sun

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A descriptive difference or a normative difference?

Melvin.

Dreamland is Zion and Kirby is the US army.

because film goers are usually adults

Kill yourself you schizo retard. Fact.

here's a variant

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by what possible metric are interactive video games art? do you think the NFL is art?

what are your postgraduate qualifications, out of interest?

gamers don't exist anymore and also they're all nazis. what don't you understand?

my kingdom and all the people in it if we (not just Yea Forums or 4channel, i mean literally everyone) could ignore politics for a single fucking day

Underrated

I won't explain the metric to you (you wouldn't understand), but I'm a working theoretical physicist who graduated from MIT.

Because most gamers are retarded incel teenagers.

Name 20 AAA video games pushing political messages that are disagreeable? "Nazis are bad" is disagreeable to you?

"My contemporary political opponents are comparable to Nazis" is disagreeable to at least the people they're portraying as Nazis.

>putting grills in ww2 war games for no reason other than pandering to retards
>good
why do women even want to be portrayed in violent mass murder simulators anyway?

>Film goers never complain about political themes in film
NEVER?

Underrated

>That's why studying art can make you better understand the politics of a given era.

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>name 20

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>zoomers treating 2007-2010 games as classic

Oh god I am so fucking old

>the 00’s was a great time for games though

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They really don't. Everyone just hated Kotaku, a shitty click-bait tabloid that adopted extremely progressive politics after a certain point, but remained doing scummy tabloid shit under the thin justification that they were 'punching up' or some shit.

Unfortunately a giant scandal/conspiracy/internet flame-war occurred in 2014 which ironically proved Kotaku right (and also didn't - don't get me started on gamergate it's such a clusterfuck it's hard to even comprehend let alone describe) and since then even AAA studios have started listening to Kotaku's bullshit and putting a progressive bent on their games stories. The problem is that when you do that, too often you end up hiring what are essentially activists to work for you and beyond broadcasting their politics activists are often terrible workers with shitty work ethics. And because big-budget games are hard to make this means that a lot of these games come out as buggy, unsatisfying, bare-bones messes. Mass Effect Andromeda is a good example of this in effect. We'll need to wait and see what happens with Last of Us 2 though, it's clear the director has drunk the kool-aid and is pushing his politics hard in the sequel but Naughty Dog's games have been historically well-programmed so who knows? It might buck the trend.

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No one likes fags

You should play the original Oddworld, it's pretty good.

Idk ask them

I could never finish Abe's Odyssey when I was younger. It was too difficult. Maybe I'll get around to giving it another shot now that I'm older and more skillful.

No. The "Everything is Political" meme is a total misquote. It's taken from Carol Hanisch's 1969 feminist essay, "The Personal is Political" even though Hanisch never actually says the personal is political in her essay. What she actually said was:
>One of the first things we discover in these groups is that personal problems are political problems. There are no personal solutions at this time. There is only collective action for a collective solution.

What she's actually referring to are specifically Women's issues (i.e. abortion) and how these are personal issues for women that can only be solved via political action. What she wasn't saying was that everything is political - just that certain issues (specifically women's issues because this is a feminist essay) are. In fact in 2006 she clarified this by stating:
>Also, “political” was used here in the broad sense of the word as having to do with power relationships, not the narrow sense of electorial politics.
And also:
>A theory is just a bunch of words— sometimes interesting to think about, but just words, nevertheless—until it is tested in real life.

So in other words the foundational text of "everything being politcal" pretty much disputes everything being political because that's fucking nonsense.

But don't believe me, read it for yourself even if you disagree with Hanisch's politics:
>carolhanisch.org/CHwritings/PIP.html

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Having political themes doesn't mean they pushed a political agenda. And a fucking annoying and stupid one at that.

Why do "film buffs" whine about the recent glut of superhero movies but never complain about the amount of schlocky police procedurals on TV?

because police procedurals were never in the way of "real" moviemaking
also police procedurals were never a religious cult

>unoriginal bait #848648646
Die already, pedo

> just ignore her bro
> she comes back to kill you for ignoring her

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It's frustrating as hell but I think it's worth it.

>causes the next video game crash
pretty based honestly

politics back then were just commiefag side or conservacuck side

nowadays its fucking bonkers!

>DUDE LETS DO A HUGE EXTREMIST PROPAGANDA OF RIGHT/LEFT SIDE

never works with general audiences.

based and nice trips

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logh is one of the only times politics in anime is done right tbqh

Of all MGS games Snakeeater is probably the least political.