Villain has already lost to the hero twice

unfortunately, did you?

>Rey survived by herself on a harsh planet
>Rey was a little kid and had to learn fast
>She salvage through old imperial ships and had to learn everything about them so she could make a profit from the part
>She has a strong connection to the force because she never gave up hope that her parents would come back
>Rey literally had no one around her so she had to toughen up or she would die

>Kylo spoiled and arrogant
>Gets hit by a blaster

I don't get it. Rey isn't a mary sue. She literally had to learn everything that there was to know or she would have died. If Rey had a penis and testicles you virgins would care. You incels would even say that he was a well written character and should what men could become if they tested themselves. Literally have sex and stop being so negative.

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>wanting the male villain to threaten the female protagonist
found the incel

Tension for reylo sex.

hell yeah dude. im changing my schedule up, gonna go to the midnight release. after that im gonna go home, watch the series in release order, then go back and see it. then im going to watch them in chronological order, just to see how they gel together. then another viewing with friends, then one last viewing just to make sure i got all the references. hopefully i can get all that done in a week, my boss would fire me if he knew i was using sick days to watch star wars. do we have a release date on the blu-ray yet? need to plan for that too

>Got hit by a blaster
That is exactly what makes her a Mary Sue though. The fact that the universe just handed her the perfect scenario where Kylo couldn't fight back at full power so she can win.

Giving a backstory that works in all her mary sue-ness doesn't diminish her mary sue-ness.

A character that has a tough childhood that occurs offscreen is a prerequisite to a Mary Sue. Actual characters have flaws instead of sympathetic origin stories.

Don't ask questions just consume product and then get excited for next product.

>kills Dad
>gets blasted by Chewie
lol sure thing buddy. What else do you expect to happen?

Yes lets kill suspense and release everything about her childhood and life. Sure thing buddy! Lol, so angry that a woman is in control and not a typical male character. Literally had 30 years of that in Star Wars and can't deal with only 5 years of a female character. Please go watch Joker or something.

>Villain becomes Hero, and Hero becomes Villain

>>kills Dad
>>gets blasted by Chewie
>lol sure thing buddy. What else do you expect to happen?
I'm convinced you people can't tell the difference between fiction and reality.

Nobody is saying it doesn't make logical sense that Chewie would shoot Kylo after he kills Han. Nor are they saying it doesn't make logical sense for Rey to potentially beat Kylo after he was injured.
They're criticising the NARRATIVE sense of having the hero beat the villain on their first meeting (twice in one movie counting the force interrogation scene too) since it kills all tension for future movies. Most people justified it by saying Snoke was the real villan anyway, and we all know how that turned out. It doesn't make any sense to write Rey beating Kylo.

You act like in the writing room the process went chronologically scene-by-scene using previous events to decide the outcome.
>OK it's time to write the Rey vs Kylo fight, but remember Kylo got hit by a blaster bolt so I guess Rey wins this fight?
In reality it was more like
>OK it's time to write the Rey vs Kylo fight, but we need Rey to win this one. How about we add Kylo getting shot somewhere so he's at a disadvantage?
There is no cause > effect in movies. Things are written for a reason. Rey didn't win because Kylo was injured, Kylo was injured because they already decided Rey needed to win the fight. And it was a fucking dumb decision that made the movies worse.

Because for normal people who have sex on the regular and have experienced romantic affection at least once in their life, Rey and Kylo are not supposed to have a hero-villain relationship. They're the Luke/Vader of the Trilogy, except the relationship is romantic. You're supposed to read their relationship as romantic. The actual question is: will they end up together or will Kylo bite the dust? Also, Rey has defeated Kylo only once, and since he's been already defeated in the first movie, it's clear that the tension about whether or not Rey will be able to defeat le ebil Kylo is not the tension you're looking for or supposed to feel. Have sex.

What was the second one?

>The actual question is: will they end up together
This sums up the target audience of the nu-trilogy pretty well

If Rey becomes his girlfriend after all the people that Kylo has murdered it would be another great example of women being attracted to murderers and psychopaths. Like Padme justifying Anakin killing even the innocent kids of the sand people.

Rey's inexplicable powers are actually the least of her problems as a character. A prodigy can exist just fine if their character is written well enough.
The fact that literally everyone she meets instantly likes or obsesses over her, and how she warps every plotline she's in to make it about herself is what makes her shit tier.

Reylo is about as healthy and functional a pairing as Edward x Bella, which appealed only to young teenage girls and old spinsters whose only conceptions of romance came from popular media precisely because they had zero practical experience. Only a purebred turbo-virgin would like Reylo, so good job outing yourself.

>The only people who have any legitimate investment in the ST, without being coerced or politically motivated, are thirsty legbeards masturbating to a xenomorph and the gyno goblin
My fucking sides.
At least it's not Finn, but holy fuck you have terrible taste

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When you think about it, the only character she ever couldn't outright overpower was Snoke, who inexplicably decided she was super important to Kylo's story arc and who she overcame anyway by pushing Kylo to pull the trigger. And of course Snoke died like a bitch, retroactively destroying any and all tension he'd created.

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There is literally nothing wrong with focusing a trilogy on romance, incel. Also, they aim to make profits by targeting women and teen girls. It's an industry. Their job is to make money. Blame capitalism, capitalism destroys art for the sake of profits.

Yep, that's the real thing that kills the Snoke excuse.
Rey might not have brute force overpowered him, but her mere presence made Kylo backstab the man he'd cheerily been party to mass genocide and patricide for. This despite being flat out told that any feelings he may have had were artificially engineered.

>nice guy syndrome
This is the wrong approach if you're looking to have sex. Nobody cares about the people Kylo has murdered.

What's good taste? Masturbating to Snoke-is-Plagueis faggot YouTube theories?
>romance is bad
have sex, find a gf

The theater is going to slip ex lax into people's food and people will want to take a dump but they don't want to miss the movie. That will create some tension.

I like your style friend, and you've nailed their mindset to a T, but the genuine reylo legbeards try to hide their psychopathic mindset. They don't have much self awareness, but they do have that much.

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>they aim to make profits by targeting women and teen girls. It's an industry. Their job is to make money
But Star Wars was already the biggest movie franchise on the planet and incredibly profitable. Why would they decide to switch the target audience to the exact opposite of what Star Wars fans actually are?
Women don't buy comic books and novels and video games and lego shit and action figures and collectable whatevers that have been the backbone of Star Wars as a money making machine for decades. They'll grab a tshirt to post on instagram once or a quirky BB8 plush then jump on the next bandwagon.
Look how well targetting women is doing for their 'profits'. The merch isn't selling, nobody cares about the movies, the theme park is empty.

However did you guess, Sir?

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Darth vader killed Kids

When did Luke use force choke? Speaking of choke do force users use the force to masturbate?

So you are actually saying that incels are in fact choosing the correct approach when they decide to go on a killing spree in a mall and so is anyone who beats the living shit out of women.

Because this is capitalism and profits are never enough. Why limiting their target audience to basement dwellers only when you can have the Twilight audience? Besides, there was shitty romance in OT and PT too. I didn't know men were so triggered by romance. This one is not even badly written like Anakin and Padme, it's actually kino.

No, because real life incels are ugly manlets while Adam Driver is a chad. Women want Kylo Ren, not a 56% mutt from rural Florida.

>kill off main villain midway through and make the apprentice the main villain, everyone agrees he's the best new character, right?
>but, Sir, our hero already beat him without any training
>ugh fuck... I know! birng back the Emperor!

This is the thought process that Disney put into an OP they bought for 4 billion dollars.

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This. I don't mind capable characters in a space adventure movie. Even Anakin, who was a whiny brat in II and a cocky but gullible guy in III was somewhat tolerable

I guess people have more difficulty in suspending their disbelief when it comes to women because hypercompetent characters are usually men?

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>Why limit their target audience to degenerates who will spend endless piles of cash on nerd shit when you can have no audience at all?
Star Wars being for women hasn't gotten any women into Star Wars though, they still don't care. All they've done is chase away the most devoted and spend-happy fanbase on the planet.
How many franchises have shot themselves in the foot chasing that mythical 'larger audience' now?

Fair enough, then nazi Chads were right all along.

This is false. He was trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda, and he self-trained between ANH and ESB and between ESB and ROTJ.

>When did Luke use force choke?
ROTJ. He force chokes two guards when walking into Jabba's place.

Anakin actually failed and had flaws, many of which lead to his decent into the dark side. What flaws does Rey have?

>Anakin was so powerful he was filled with arrogance and anger towards his mentors as he perceived them as holding him back - which led him down a dark path
>Rey is so powerful she beats everybody around her but is still good because she's just so PERFECT

>Adam Driver is a chad.
Ahahahahahaha good one. Everyone laughed when he took off his mask in TFA. My friend's gf was sitting next to me in the theater and she started laughing when she saw his dorky face.

>Kylo gets redeemed in ep9 and has to face off against fallen Rey
>he already got whooped twice and now has to fight the same enemy who has dark side upgrade, making him the ultimate underdog
Kinda smart akshually

>How do they expect us to feel tension?
you don't. It's just capeshit in disguise

But Luke was established as a pilot in 4 and we outright see him lightsaber training in the same film, and learning how to use the force in empire is he retarded?

>trained to do a force choke
Maybe some EU autist is gonna correct me but I never saw 'force choke' as some stand-alone technique. It's just the same shit as a force push/pull but focused on a person's neck.

>hasn't gotten any woman into SW
There are legions of reyloshippers out there. The old Star Wars audience didn't get pissed off because of Reylo anyway, literally the only part of the movie people didn't criticize were the Rey/Kylo scenes.

>There are legions of reyloshippers out there
There's a couple of mentally-ill faggots who shitpost, nothing more.

An equally large number of women creamed their panties when he took off his mask. Point invalid.

>After Rian Johnson's major screwup, Disney will never trust another writer-director again

Star Wars will forever be a focus-grouped to death souless ultra-safe corporate product now.

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>legions
It's a handful of rabid trannies. And it's absolutely nothing close to the number of people Star Wars lost as a result of being a shit YA movie for wine aunts

No, they didn't faggot.

You people sound even more miserable than the incels you hate. There's no humor or levity in you.

I'll give to you that it would be much better for Rey as a character if she accepted Kylo's deal

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TLJ was even more focus grouped than TFA.
Johnson didnt make a move without consulting the story group and Kennedy. JJ had more liberty than him.
Sometimes corporate committees generate retarded products.

When you're making a movie with established lore like star wars you want people who know the lore to write the script.

>"I-IT'S FOR CHILDREN!!!"
Not an argument.

Rey was the villain and Kyle was the hero!

>ROTJ. He force chokes two guards when walking into Jabba's place.
That was in a deleted scene, which makes it non-canon.

Wow you mean to tell me Rey has a background that perfectly sets her up to be the hero and competent in exactly the situations her quest requires? And it's all off-screen?
Yeah this isn't a Mary Sue at all!!!

Well it seemed like that was where her development was going, she acts emotionally about almost everything so it seems like her falling to the dark side was inevitable but no we can't have that.

>when you mash empire and Jedi together but swap around some elements and reverse a few outcomes and your middle manager boss thinks this is acceptable

>That was in a deleted scene
Not in the remasters.

Retards consider Rey waking up before Kylo after they destroy the lightsaber as a "loss".

This argument has been brought up many times and it's kinda stupid.

>these movies were made for all ages and they cant evolution

You can absolutely make a dark star wars film. I think it would be fun seeing a sith trilogy with horror and blood in it.

>You can absolutely make a dark star wars film.
They did, people just didn't appreciate it.

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How is that retarded? Plus Rey killed the same amount of Lobster guards as Kylo and didn't even need help. While Kylo almost got bodied without Rey.

How fucking dumb do you guys think this dude is irl?

wtf roberto

>How is that retarded?
They literally didn't fight each other. That is why it's retarded. It's also retarded to ask how that's retarded, retard.

That was never a deleted scene. Also, in the novelization, which is canon, the guards are clutching their throats and choking. For what it's worth, ROTJ Luke's force power in Lego Star Wars is a force choke.

Are we going to have Darth Schoolshooter doing a training montage like in a Rocky movie? That would make me want to root for SOMEONE in these shit movies.

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they literally tied with each other when they both telekinetically grabbed the saber and Kylo did argueably worse against the red guard, plus Rey recovered quicker and her rocklifting feat is bigger than the ones Kylo has shown, she might not have won but they are at least on equal ground

And somehow learned to pilot the falcon,
speak wookie and swim on a desert planet too. Huh.

I liked it. Watched it a couple of times. Its not perfect, though. Wasnt the script something from the old Lucasfilm crew?

>CLAP
>CLAP
>CLAP
>IT'S FOR KIDS SO NO EFFORT SHOULD BE PUT INTO IT!
Seriously what the fuck is wrong with these shills?! Is early access to amusement parks really so important you sacrifice all integrity?

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THIS

Why do you think the movie feels so bloated and the canto blight shit is so useless in the long run? The decision to shove Rose for asian representation was made by the story group, and Rian couldn't manage to insert the new character in a meaningful way, so he made an entire subplot that leads nowhere.

I theorize she's siphoning Kylo's power, after the failed mind reading and the force bridge.

>Rogue One
>Dark
Having one asshole character, and killing of personality lacking coons you don't even know he name, doesn't make a movie darker. Being dark is about themes and atmosphere, and Rogue One was still uplifting happy garbage. Saying a movie is dark because people die, is like shoving gore and sex into a children's cartoon and now saying it is "for adults". It is about the core, not the ornaments.

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....aaaaand the chinese hated it anyways

Asians don't see themselves as a group, they hate other asians.

The people who tought the chinese would feel represented by vietnamese girl, are straight up stupid

this

>uses the force twice and succeeeds when she didn't even know it existed until earlier that day
>beats a trained sith on her first try
>knows how to swim great depths despite growing up in a desert
'>stronger than even Vader
>everybody wants/needs her and everyone loves her
>if the leaks are true, she is Emperor Palpatine's granddaughter
She is, without a shadow of a doubt, a Mary Sue.

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>she might not have won
Which is the point retard. There was no second loss because there was no second fight. An explosion knocking them both out and one waking up first randomly isn't a win. The rest of your post is irrelevant

Kylo isn't sith

>Actually believing Rey is going to go dark
What the FUCK is wrong with you?