Jesus Christ

This guy fucks

Fookin gook

Would you fight or draft dodge?

Dodge no question about it.

virgin marine vs chad ma

Is this the best Ken Burns?

Why didnt America just fly the marines to Hanoi?

they focused way too much on that faggot musgrave
there were so many more worthy to have had that screen time

Attached: 1555133815381.jpg (1050x1060, 115K)

Dodge, the women and sois and coloreds that openly hate me can go fight for (((American interests))). Any white man in the military in 2019 is a total cuck, unless he is just gaming it for free college by doing safe bitch work.

>fighting for corporate interest and (((them)))

>they took my red cross geneva convention card and torn it up
>the VC told me “You no pow, you no pow, Criminal. You Criminal”

>they told me to make a statement against the war, I boldly refused and said I’d rather die for my country than betray it. The Vietcong commander told me “Dying is easy, it will be living that is the hard part.”

Attached: 7A55E208-AB6D-462E-8CF8-BDCC27C02889.png (249x203, 9K)

im on my second rewatch with this series and its even kinoer than before

Personally I'm glad we went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan, those nations so close to our borders were clearly threatening us.

No one's gonna say it?

It ain't me

>missing out on the chance to burn villages to the ground and rape and behead asian chicks and face no penalty

You would have to be retarded to dodge.

Neither, declare yourself a pacifist and fuck gook women near the hospital.

If Venezuela war, enlist. Those bitches are hot.

google.com/search?q=Venezuelan women&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ACYBGNT11SbmXIsP--wFGoGhqxFOn619hw:1568706752588&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjnvqFsNfkAhWRTd8KHbrjB6UQ_AUIESgB&biw=1536&bih=752

Attached: yikes cringe.jpg (598x415, 60K)

For me it's Le Cong Huan

Attached: Cong, Le Quan NOW square.jpg (800x800, 109K)

what is all this from? You faggots expect people to have a encyclopedic knowledge of screencaps and faces lol

The PBS Vietnam documentary kino.

kill yourself you newfag nigger

Laugh at them and call them kikes.

it ain't feed

why would the jews want to fight communism?

>*gets shot in the dick and face*

Ken Burns doc, watch his civil war one

Tbf all his experts except one were telling him the US had to send troops to South Vietnam and that the war wouldn't need a million men to win and that the US could win in a few years, etc.

He was probably thinking about the load of shit he was gonna get for abandoning South Vietnam and letting the communists annex it.

Also Kennedy would've done the same things Johnson did, LBJ was basically using Kennedy's playbook and same advisors. Had Nixon won in 1960 the war probably still would've played out along the same course.

*helicopter noises and classic rock intensifies*

Attached: 714meB7E1aL.jpg (1744x1744, 181K)

>*Tomorrow never knows starts playing over footage of urban combat and stock gunshots*

Attached: 5YjYpra.jpg (1000x800, 61K)

youtube.com/watch?v=LW_Df0EuJ74

Based slayer of cowardly Americans

Attached: 1568084565862.png (1280x720, 324K)

God the vietnamese were cool.

The whole war was the most "you're locked in here with me" shit imaginable. The americans go over there with so much funding and tech they may as well have had fucking gundams, and the Vietnamese grab some fucking garrotes and AK's and completely mind break a whole generation of the most powerful country in the world's population.

Not really, America mind broke itself, the unrest and social upheaval of the 60s mindbroke us, Vietnam just served as an accelerant and focus point.

In purely statistical terms the US completely assfucked Vietnam for a decade. The Vietnamese were basically irrelevant.

In truth the Vietnam war was really a case of "America fought itself and lost."

>>“And I said, ‘Ma, everybody’s mother thinks their son is special. I’m putting pieces of special people in bags.”
Why would you say that to your fuckin mom dude?

See? Look at the absolute cope to this day.

Vietcong beat the US military
Taleban beat the US military
Who's next?

Pile a billion excuses one on top of another and not a single one will touch the concrete fact that Vietnam won the war.

I always wanted a film about the 'nam war tunnel rats.
unsettlingstories.com/2017/03/01/story-grandfather-told-got-sent-home-vietnam-might-worst-fucking-thing-ive-ever-heard/

Attached: 165752106874.jpg (1790x2150, 606K)

Gamers

They were backed by china and Russia though. Got supplied with arms and shit

>he doesn't know the USSR was actually based
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan

Vietnam War makes it perfectly clear no country is worth dying for. We are being manipulated by shitty corporate interests and cowardly politicians. The real war we should fight is against our own government.

a true warrior philosopher

Any good interviews with the Viet Cong/Viet Minh soldiers of the war?
All I can find is videos of loser American soldiers.

burger cope every thread

>butthurt europoors who think Vietnam "won" anything, when it was really American leftists who won

Stay irrelevant

kek

Ken Burns' The Vietnam War PBS documentary kino. His second best doc after The Civil War which should be required viewing in every American household.

I haven't finished this series but it's been great so far. the vietnamese soldier interviews are interesting im glad they interviewed them. any recs for WWII docs besides WWII in color? Preferably ones that try to be impartial

The only one who won is business.

>Dude people were smoking weed and listening to rock and roll back home so we couldn't fight the rice farmers good :'(

Attached: 1560848553922.jpg (673x789, 140K)

god i hate people like you

stfu you weak lil bitch, joining up whether you deploy into dangerous territory or not is a sacred and timeless tradition of brotherhood and camaraderie that your tiny little zoomer brain and balls cant even comprehend, jesus you make me sick

communists won. american leftists are communists and the gooks are communists. vietnam was a war against communist and it lost (unfortunately)

Nixon did more to end the war in 2 years than LBJ did in 8. LBJ has my vote as the worst President of the 20th century and that's saying a lot. His "Great Society" is the reason the nuclear family (especially for blacks) has been slowly eroding in favor of government welfare dependence.

Fuck that cunt. He's the forerunner of everything wrong with the modern Democratic Party.

It depends, are women getting drafted too? If not then I dodge because I take my equality very seriously.

Attached: data_laugh.gif (200x150, 638K)

Why was south vietnam so fucking shit? As soon as the americans left they got steamrolled by the communists.

Literally OP's post. Burns' PBD doc is very comprehensive and fair to both sides.

dying for (((the chosen people))) would be most honorable thing i can think of

Rampant corruption in an already corrupt regime.

Ho Chi Minh is literally the only communist I've ever respected. He genuinely and truly wanted the betterment and self-government of his people but he chose the worst ideology to do it with. He was first and foremost a nationalist who became a communist out of education and necessity.

They lacked popular support because they were a French colonial puppet government.

It's like asking how Vichy France got steamrolled if the Germans had just abandoned it after D-day.

Pretty much. All hail the almighty dollar.

>loosing 10+ soldiers and 20+ civilians for every American casualty
>never win a single engagement
>country irrevocably fucked by landmines and agent orange 60 years later
>"loser" left of their own will
>Winner basically outpost of the "loosers" businesses

Nice win there Nguyen

Communists were only a tiny portion of American leftists at the time, American leftists are really Socialist with cultural marxists leanings.

Nixon literally fucking sabotaged peace negotiations just to get the war extended so he'd have an easier time winning. Maybe he would have ended the war, but he was always willing to use it as a political toy.

looks like Tom Atkins

Diem, the first leader of south vietnam, was a corrupt dictator who promoted military leadership based on loyalty to him instead of skill or experience. This top level corruption bleeds down into every unit and poisons their military. US commanders were on record saying that the early South Vietnamese fighters were exceptionally cowardly and refused to take orders.

>American leftists are really Socialist with cultural marxists leanings.
aka communists.

His Great Society plan would have been great, had Vietnam not hamstrung it. He shut it down early, you're retarded.

>bullying your mum
For what purpose

this is your brain on pol

We're reaching levels of cope that shouldn't even be possible.

he fuckin killed jfk too, him and Bush sr and their buddies did it 100%, a fuckin 10 year old could figure it out

>go to war to prevent the spread of communism in south vietnam
>get fucked
>Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia become communist after you leave
>W-WE KILLED A LOT OF CIVILIANS THOUGH THAT MEANS WE WON
The absolute state of ameriCOPE

I am well aware Nixon was an absolute fucking madman and ruthless politician (LBJ even knew about the sabotage but didn't prosecute him because he's a cuck), but that doesn't mean he hastened the end of the war after LBJ fucked up on every front.

It's a war that should've never happened in the first place, but I take the President who, despite being an unscrupulous, cutthroat piece of shit, improved the life of the average American citizen, over a President who was the exact same piece of shit, just much worse at it and with horrible policies that have fucked over the American populace to this day.

>CIVILIAN
>communist
all communists are enemy combatants.

Should’ve just bombed them all back to the Stone Age. Use nukes like we did with the Nips. Goddamn gooks. We fought against these insects 3 times back-to-back (Japan, China, Korea, Vietnam) and costed us thousands of men.

Let me guess you think the Nazis really won ww2 because they had a higher k/d

Attached: 1562223265772.png (218x231, 6K)

>go to war to prevent the spread of communism in south vietnam
Well here's your mistake, (((the US))) went to war in vietnam to make defense contractors and their cronies in DC - Bush, LBJ, Kissinger, etc etc - lots and lots of money. commies were the scapegoat you 4th grade intellect having douche

The Vietnam war was really a series of mistakes in both foreign policy and military campaigning.

Firstly the United States made a bad play by not just supporting Ho Chi Minh's campaign for Independence against the French. By helping him the US would have a staunch ally in Southeast Asia, a buffer against Chinese Communism (keep in mind China went to war with Vietnam shortly after the American war ended). The reasons that America did not do these are because following the communist success in China the state department fired their Asia experts because they didn't predict that such a thing could happen. There was fear that the experts were secretly in favor of communist expansion. The lack of experts in the region made the US overlook the possibility to playing the Vietnamese against the Chinese. Additionally the American leadership had a uniform view of Communists, that every regime would support each other no matter what, therefore if Vietnam is communist then it will never have issues with China.

The problem with the military strategy in Vietnam came from trying to avoid the results of the Korean war repeating themselves. For those who don't know, during the Korean war UN forces pushed so far into North Korean territory that the Chinese feared an invasion of their land, and pushed forces back into a stalemate. The US believed this would be likely to happen again, and therefore decided to never go on a ground offense into North Vietnamese territory. The idea that General Westmooreland championed was the "Kill line" where if the US just went on the defensive eventually enough NV would die that they couldn't fight anymore. This actually came close to happening during the Tet Offensive, in which the entire Vietcong was pretty much wiped out and the NV were at their weakest point ever. It is very difficult to reach a kill line when you don't attack the enemy where they are.

NOPE

That's my literal fucking nightmare.
I would rather have just died in the fucking tunnel than survive that shit.

Fucking NOPE.

Attached: source.gif (300x225, 1.59M)

Honestly good on the Vietnamese for BTFOing us Americans. Like based Osama said, America really is the great Satan, and shame on this country for trying to control the world. Fuck corporations, fuck capitalism, fuck the military, and fuck America

>stfu you weak lil bitch, joining up whether you deploy into dangerous territory or not is a sacred and timeless tradition of brotherhood and camaraderie that your tiny little zoomer brain and balls cant even comprehend, jesus you make me sick

Attached: 1502706445904.jpg (1280x720, 102K)

Americope.

They lost because their military was ultimately dependent on US supplies to continue (which dried up as soon as it was convenient for the US), while the North could rely on an endless supply of Soviet/Chinese aid. "They lost because they were corrupt" is American cope to escape all blame for their multiple fuck-ups in South Vietnam

>dude topple Diem lmao
>dude bodycount lmao
>dude give the ARVN WW2 surplus while the Vietminh fight with the latest in Soviet small arms lmao
>dude blow everything the fuck up
>lol you fuckin jungle rice niggers can't fight, gg, USA USA USA

>h-his Great Society would've worked, it's just that the unnecessary war that he continued to entrench the nation in made it impossible for him to do!!!
>Bernie 2020!!!

Attached: 1559278216495.jpg (750x548, 68K)

Have americans won any conflict? Im from NZ and theyve (post ww2) roped us into Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan. arabs been killing yanks unimpeded for like 30 years now, what gives yankee bois?

Because he was in middle of a shitty war and was probably shocked and depressed.

Another reason the US supported France over Ho Chi Minh is that the US thought France would be an important ally in Europe against the USSR. This ended up not being the case, France didn't help with much of anything since they spent most of their time losing former colonial territories and reforming their government every decade. The real allies against communism in Europe were the UK and West Germany.

The real tragedy of every war is men killing each other instead of breaking bread and helping each other.
There was no winner in vietnam, there were only needless deaths.

>Have Americans won any conflict?
Only against themselves (the Revolutionary and American civil war).

And you think that rock and roll and drugs is a more compelling boogyman? All the resources that could have helped poor people become more independent and successful got diverted to the war. Welfare didn't do shit to hurt American society.

>Iraq and Afghanistan
That's what you get when you vote National lmao

Did they include the part where the US was running Heroin out of a Pepsi plant in Laos or the AFN's last message GOODBYE! SEE YOU NEXT WAR!!

The hilarious thing is Nixon getting pissed enough to say "fuck it" and bomb the shit out of VC positions and routes into and out of Laos and Cambodia crippled the North's war effort so badly in a few months that they were heavily considering serious peace talks instead of the for show ones they had since the war began.

>*Writes book about waifu getting raped to death and having to count how many of his friends died in a field*
What was his fucking problem?

>There was no winner in vietnam
No, the vietnamese clearly won. Americans can cope by making it about self-reflection and the horrors of war a la Apocalypse Now, but they only reflect like that when they lose. Otherwise it's stars, stripes and AMERICA FUCK YEAH.

So no, fuck your self-reflection and contemplation, you fucking lost.

Attached: Female_Viet_Cong_warrior_1972_1.jpg (1190x1600, 388K)

t. commie pinko

>putting all the poor in shitty public Housing
>Enabling whores to ditch their husband and get support directly from the state
>Encourage the poor to rely on handouts
>Conpletely destroy the family unit among the poor

Yeah Great Society really didn't hurt anyone!

M-MAYBE THE REAL VICTORY IN VIETNAM WAS THE FRIENDS WE MADE ALONG THE WAY

>yeah I lost all the skin on the front of my body from a stray napalm strike, I'm kept awake by recollections of the horrors I've seen, and my ballsack shriveled up and died from toxic chemicals I was never told about but I went under the pretext of getting to rape and murder without consequences so it balances out

The reality the Diem led a corrupt regime that produced a failed military doesn't agree against the point that their military could not survive without US supplies. In fact it kind of supports that idea. In the end their literally lost because their army wasn't able to sustain itself without a US supply line, but that was after 1972. Pre-1965 when Diem was assassinated (in late 1964) their military was ineffective fighting the Vietcong. The years in between their military was actually competent but a lot of that is because they were effectively a continuation of the US military and therefore had access to all of the resources of the US military, the same resources they lost when we pulled out in 1972.

>even her tit and shirt create the shape of a skull
Lmao the Vietnamese were death incarnate.

Attached: 1559740730873.jpg (293x236, 30K)

>"I never had friends like the ones I had when I was in Hỏa Lò. Jesus, does anybody?"

Attached: John-McCain-Using-a-Computer--47455.jpg (800x559, 123K)

Gigacope

>white american families being literally bought and sold in their own country
>A-All hail the almighty dollar

Attached: 1456456369155.jpg (244x206, 15K)

No, I think strategic military incompetence caused by a defeatist media pressuring American public opinion is what lost the war.

kino

>The reality the Diem led a corrupt regime that produced a failed military
Honestly, how do you reconcile the argument that "South Vietnam's military was shit because Diem prized loyalty over competence" when he and his brother ended up murdered by a cabal of those same generals picked for "loyalty"? Diem prized "loyalty" because - unlike American presidents - he actually had to worry about some general deciding he wanted the presidential palace, and sending a division to storm it.

How many coups and counter-coups did post-Diem South Vietnam go through, by the way?

Attached: 0s008.png (1280x720, 379K)

In the end 3 million Vietnamese died, and their government gave up on a communist command economy when the very next guy after Le Duan started the Doi Moi reforms. They had years of war and 3 million deaths all to end up not communist in the end anyway

Well yeah most wars throughout history just caused the common man to suffer and die for their masters' greed. A majority of conflict in the 20th century is a direct reaction to previous colonialist wars waged in that exact way. Marx was highly opposed to expansionist wars but encouraged nationalistic groups to overthrow colonial governments. All the violence that happened throughout asia is a very sad social experiment that's a condemnation of both imperialist and marxist ideas. So much death and suffering all for nothing

They got a unified nation on their terms, doesn't matter how many McDonald's they open. Americans won't even be majority white in the next decade.

Attached: 1567596098187.jpg (1024x768, 133K)

It was sarcasm retard

>Honestly, how do you reconcile the argument that "South Vietnam's military was shit because Diem prized loyalty over competence" when he and his brother ended up murdered by a cabal of those same generals picked for "loyalty"

Because when your entire military knows that political advancement is not based on accomplishments but rather subservience their are going to be people that recognize what you have is a strongman system and why not be the strongman.

You're also forgetting that Diem was effectively an outsider to the culture, he was catholic (in a country predominantly Buddhist) and raised in French culture. The entire events leading up to his coup were mass demonstrations and protests against his crackdowns on Buddhism and the "traditional" Vietnamese culture. Not to mention the horrid way his brother's wife acted in public which only riled the people up more.

youtu.be/3YHW1AoahoE

>the horrid way his brother's wife acted in public
what did she do? like suck cocks and shit?

Sure thing goy

Attached: 1401055933237.jpg (312x342, 32K)

Being stuck in a shitty position for a couple of days would've been more than enough, but all the bugs really make the situation hellish.

Loved the brief interview with the little bird pilot, it really shows you have to be crazy to fly one of those things.

No she antagonized the Buddhist population (which was like 90% of South Vietnam) by saying that "It was the happiest day of my life" when she learned that some of them had died during crackdowns. She also claimed that Buddhists were uncultured and embarrass themselves by trying to be leaders. In general she flaunted the wealth that she had because her husband and brother-in-law were the leaders which people also took as a sign of corruption. And like DIem she was catholic and therefore had the appearance of an outsider before the Buddhist crisis even started.

This just tells how fucking uneducated your average /pol/tard is. No understanding of politics, economics or history, just parroting each others opinions.

>Because when your entire military knows that political advancement is not based on accomplishments
No, he got coup'd because generals were secretly given the greenlight by JFK (or "rogue" elements in the White House/State Department) - who, like Halberstam and all the other so-called Cassandras of the era, just assumed that Diem was the only problem in South Vietnam. Remove Diem, and South Vietnam becomes South Korea 2.0.

>You're also forgetting that Diem was effectively an outsider to the culture, he was catholic (in a country predominantly Buddhist) and raised in French culture
You could make the exact same argument for most of the Buddhist protestors, who were overwhelmingly urban in a nation that was at least 80% rural well into 1960 (most of whom would've been oblivious as to who or what Diem was). It's like using feminist protests in NYC against Trump as proof that "all Americans hate Trump because he's sexist".

Absolutely sign up and kill something, anything. Everything.

Attached: Fun with little birds.webm (480x360, 2.19M)

when are they gonna make a movie about this absolute mad lad and his zany antics?

Attached: aquino.jpg (512x512, 22K)

yeah pretty much

That's still civil war.

Sounds based.

Hell yeah, why is there no kino about little birds or helicopter war pilots in general?
There's this story about this French Mercenary during the Congo Wars that offered his services as a Hind pilot, here's a link that gives some insight about the whole story:
wearethemighty.com/articles/this-colonel-turned-mercenary-has-been-battling-terrorism-for-decades

And yeah, I already know the answer to my question: Not enough diversity quotas, source material too conflictive, the bad guys should be the good guys, etc

We could wipe anyone we wanted off the face of the planet but the jews won't let us

>No, he got coup'd because generals were secretly given the greenlight by JFK

Hey dipshit you know the generals weren't just told to assassinate Diem. The generals asked the US ambassador, that means they were plotting something before they knew how America would feel about it. You probably also know that the cable sent giving them permission was sent partly in error, JFK thinking that his entire cabinet was in agreement to approve it when in reality they were split pretty evenly on whether it was good idea or not.

Also you can't make whatever dipshit argument you're making about the Buddhist crises unless you're a dumbfuck who just ignores history entirely. The protests were happening in Saigon, so it didn't fucking matter at all that the people protesting were Urbanites in a country of rural citizens. People were literally being killed and killing themselves during the crises and to pretend that its at all similar to some dumb-ass women's march shows that you're a smooth brain who can't think of the world in any terms other than shallow metaphors to America that don't even make sense.

maybe if we wiped the jews off the face of the planet there would be nobody stopping us from wiping everybody else we dont like off the face of the planet too.

Attached: 1537332886459.png (331x331, 160K)

They actually did quite decently (easter invasion 72) until the us pretty much cut all of their military aid in 73 whist the north was getting increased military aid from the soviets and Chinese. It also did not help that they where completely fucked over by by the Paris peace talks letting the north keep tens of thousands of troops in the South because the usa wanted out fast.

The biggest problem with the American offence is that it was too withheld. Aside from never entering the war in the first place, the Americans should have just let the army go apeshit.

He was always a communist 1st just look at what happened to all of the non communist Vietnamese nationalists that allied with him in 45/6.

>would rather die than survive a difficult experience

>"won"
>got killed 10 to 1
>lost every single engagement

it took them 2 years to occupy an empty country for fucks sake

The average North viet soldier were shitting their pants in the jungle too you know.

The world just can't handle heli pilots.

Attached: OH-58 Kiowas in Afghanistan.webm (640x480, 1.7M)

>b-but America won the war!!!

Attached: Enraged.png (633x758, 22K)

>he's STILL coping

Attached: 1463989674576.gif (404x416, 201K)

Thanks for the immensively phenomenal .webm you've been sharing. Now If you excuse, I'm going off to find a copy of Blue Thunder to watch tonight. This is your fault

>war to prevent SK from becomkng red
>not only SK but the entire region goes communist because of your military incompetence
Nice victory americopers

I think it's fairly well known that America lost user, you're not going to convince anyone.

>joining up whether you deploy into dangerous territory or not is a sacred and timeless tradition of brotherhood and camaraderie that your tiny little zoomer brain and balls cant even comprehend
It would be 10x more courageous to stand up against the government but I guess they're just too big and scary for you bootlickers, huh?

you're just an idiot, not even a gook would call that a win more like a mercy.

>the nonstop COPE

Attached: 1421280138029.jpg (1600x1150, 200K)

>corrupt and apathetic leadership propped up only by the Americans.
>Viet Cong were far more experienced having basically fought for two generations (first against the Japs, then the French, then the US).
>most of the Vietnamese population supported Ho Chi Minh.

Pretty much agree with you, have you read the lost mandate of heaven? Its a quite interesting book all about Diem and his leadership in the early RVN.

>"They lost because they were corrupt" is American cope to escape all blame for their multiple fuck-ups in South Vietnam
To be fair, those anons never claimed that the corruption of the SV government wasn't the American's fault.

The American goal of the war was to prevent communism from taking over Vietnam. They failed.

The goal of the Viet Cong was to take over Vietnam. They succeeded.

I'm not really behind all this anti-yank gloating about Vietnam but the simple fact is that the USA lost.

>"I feel like a hickypicky caught up in a snafydoo!!"

Fighting communism is fighting the good fight. Plus all that cheap gook minge.

why are you so fucking stupid. the war ultimately meant nothing because vietnam became capitalist anyways. why do you think its so fucking depressing for both sides veterans.

John McCain Jr early in the war worked for the north Vietnamese communists doing PR for them.
Later in the war he ended plans/negotiations to get back American POWs, leaving them in communist hands.

unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-tokyo-rose-ran-for-president/

Rent free Schlomo

>why are you so fucking stupid. the war ultimately meant nothing because vietnam became capitalist anyways. why do you think its so fucking depressing for both sides veterans.
S E E T H I N G

No one is arguing that America lost the war.

I'm just sick of Eurotrash leftists and commies acting like America was beaten militarily in the field and not by public sentiment.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, America fought itself in Vietnam and lost.

To this day I still don't understand how drafting works.
How can you be dragged to the other end of the world without losing your shit and going full Private Pyle.
I mean, if you took me away from my home, dragged me halfway across the country to stick me in a camp where you insult me, hit me, treat me like a slave, and then after a month of that, you stick me on a boat/plane to the other side of the world so I can get shot by locals and spend half the time in a feverous daze from the heat, humidity, and strange insects, I would just fucking break. I'd see you as my enemy, not them.

I mean, I'd just find a way to get myself discharged from the start. Who the fuck would agree to being drafted?

>why are you so fucking stupid.
I'm not even the user you've been arguing Amerilard. The metric for whether you win or lose a war is whether or not you achieve you military and political objectives. Whatever happened afterwards is not the point.

But the US didn't win against the viet cong and the north viets in the end. They won by holding out.

>I'm just sick of Eurotrash leftists and commies acting like America was beaten militarily in the field and not by public sentiment.
I never claimed America was beaten militarily. Even if we go off of your claims that still means that the Viet Cong were able to maintain morale and public loyalty whilst the Americans could not. That's still losing.

>rusty AK farmer
When will this meme end?

By that logic, you lost 1812. Which you did. But Yanks claim otherwise.

Jesus fucking christ.

There is literally a movie called Tunnel rats. It's okay the surprising thing about it was that who directed it.

Good luck with that user.

Attached: AH-56 Cheyenne.webm (634x360, 2.57M)

Soldiers hate it when civies try to tell them what war is like

Ugly horseface
Guy deserved it

I would have fought in WW2, but not Vietnam.

hahah

>I would have fought in WW2
same, for germany.

>not for thailand

let's see the pretty boy

We did. I dont know why people have trouble understanding not every war has to be about destroying the other country
Although they did burn down the capital

>You're coming back
His mom was unironically right. All of her hope was perfectly justified and God literally helped her through the struggles. Christian War Mothers: 1, Destroyed Morale Soldiers: 0

>muh k/d
Lmao americuck next time you going to tell me germany won against Russia

No he wasnt. Kennedy didnt believe in the domino meme. He only sent a few men at first and had no plans to make this a massive war. If the South couldnt take it on their own JFK wouldve pulled out.

>By that logic, you lost 1812.
ok sure

Germany lost plenty of engagements and got bumrushed all the way to Berlin. How is that anything like what the user’s saying.

did the US 'really' lose the war in Vietnam? o

>nearly 45 years and still coping
jesus, i hope all the boomers die soon so we don't have to talk about this shit anymore

>nearly 45 years
europeons will forever be obsessed

This. Diem was actually based.

>the enemy team may have captured the flag but I ran more

>w-we killed more
Why do muricans think war is a Call of Duty match where K/D ration matters?
It's about the war goal, North Vietnam conquered the South and got the americans to leave. the US failed to save the south and failed to stop a communist takeover of Vetnam

Attached: 1444459892513.gif (220x226, 281K)

A war is won when you achieve your objective, using the k/d is the most brainlet argument you can think off, german killed more russians during the war yet they failed. Usa wanted to to eliminate Communism in Vietnam they failed miserably. They lost the war clean and simple

No Vietnamese never called me no incel

Pretty much what happened to Germany.
Germany’s loss to the Soviets in WW2 and America’s stragetic and political failure/loss in Vietnam are different. America didn’t experience military defeats like Stalingrad or Kursk in Vietnam so why are you trying to equate the two?

lmao

youtu.be/tixOyiR8B-8

Based post.

Attached: features.jpg (379x267, 30K)

đồ cái thằng độc thân không tự nguyện
here, im happy to help

Military perfomance is always related to achieving their side's goals in the conflict. In the Vietnam war America's goals was to prevent South Vietnam from becoming communist and to stop communism from spreading in the region. By the end of the war South Vietnam became communist and communism spread to Laos and Cambodia. America lost from every possible perspective, whenever you imply anything else people will just laugh at your transparent coping. Hope it's clear now

Yeah except I didn’t use the k/d argument. The brainlet argument is thinking that Germany’s battles with the Soviet Union are somehow comparable to America’s military battles with Vietnam. Note how the user argued about losing engagements not k/d. Germany tactically and stragetically lost significant engagements that lead to its total defeat despite a “superior” k/d ratio. This is not the same case for America in Vietnam.

Arabs were smart to prioritize mutilating Americans instead. Wheenver an American died in the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars they were martyred and paraded on television but the government suppressed all media of wounded and disabled vets because it'd kill enlistment and demoralize the war effort.

They accomplished this by leaving shit loads of mines and IEDs everywhere which worked great because the US plan to just constantly patrol was retarded. Everyone in Afghanistan carries a gun too, so it was impossible for US soldiers to tell who is an enemy or just a farmer. Often jihadists would pretend to be farmers and even wave to US soldiers to get close and only start firing when someone triggered a mine.

what does nguyen mean anyway

unironically all of them except for the civil war and 1812, ties

There's no equivalent in the English language but it's something like fag, nigger and jew in one word

>America’s strategical and political failure/loss in Vietnam
>somehow implying that America didn’t lose in Vietnam
Are you even reading what I’m writing?

> nguyen
My friends last name kek

Isn't it a common vietname though? Does that mean millions of charlies are called niggerfaggot?

"Whoever has the Americans as allies does not need any enemies"

Attached: WS6OGDUFAIZSTOZKN3CTLMTJJ4.jpg (960x993, 145K)

>1812 is a tie
>Fail to establish a North American hegenomy
>Fail to prevent British trade
>Fail to eradicate Native Americans
>Have your capital burned to the ground
>Have your President flee the capital
Ah yes. These famous 'ties' where you failed to do any of your objectives and your opponent burned down your leaders house and your capital. Of course. Ties.

Thank you Mark Moyar

The goal of the war was to "free" the Vietnamese people. If the only way to win the war was to just kill all the Vietnamese people because no one in the country wanted to be ruled by a US puppet, maybe you should just leave.

>muh capital burning
Napoleonic cope

Well you can see it even in this thread:
>"I want to fight a good fight and help good Vietnamese people defeat the bad Vietnamese people, better be red than dead."
>"I'm not a coward, I'm not going to dodge drafting like some pussies do."

>got killed 10 to 1
>Note how the user argued about losing engagements not k/d.
Learn to read mutt

>Fail to establish a North American hegenomy
>Fail to eradicate Native Americans
these did not age well yikes

The meaning is actually nothing special, the origin is actually from china with similar like yuen, ruen or yuan. I think the word itself mean something closer to a string musical instrument

Now if you want to know the reason why so many vietnamese has that as the last name is because the nguyen dynasty is one of the longest (2nd i think) and final dynasty so it has a lot of influence, the typical of influence is people actually change their family name to the current dynasty so they won't get their whole family dabbed on because somebody dislike them

I'm just remarking on the irrelevance of statistics and effort to whether or not a war's objective is achieved. War is fought for goals and purposes, its not a murder sentence on a culture for daring to oppose you. The death toll isnt actually the prize in war.

BIG difference between just being capitalist and being a banana republic like most of the third world. In the post war era the US called all the state intervention needed to develop a classical economy communism when it was done by poor countries, and pretty much only the countries strong enough to resist america were able to do it, China being the most striking example. Even after the devestation of war the ability of the communist government to exercise domestic control over industry benefited Vietnam immensely compared to the alternative, just like despite China's ultimate transition to capitalism it also owes its success to a strong government that could guide industry and resist foreign interference.

Yes, usually when your capital burns to the ground and your government leader has to flee, you've pretty much lost as you can offer no real resistance to the opponent you're facing. The fact Britain didn't go on a spree down the East Coast is they were facing possibly the greatest general to ever live in Europe, Napoleon.

At the time, retard. You can't retroactively apply the conditions NOW to what you wanted to achieve back then. USA lost the War of 1812, they did not achieve anything they wanted to do and they suffered humiliating defeats and the Burning of Washington D.C was considered the most humiliating event in American history by many historians.

>China's ultimate transition to capitalism
never happened

Guess the ARVN and anti communists where not Vietnamese then.

>Yes, usually when your capital burns to the ground and your government leader has to flee, you've pretty much lost as you can offer no real resistance to the opponent you're facing.
Damn somebody should have told Napoleon that in Russia. Guess he won there too huh?

The purpose of the war wasnt to conquer America though

>literally nothing happens
>muh dc burning
>indians in general get btfo
>consider it a loss
kek imagine being this retarded

Nothing is irrelevant. Thinking statistics and effort and political context is disconnected from the achievement of a war’s objectives leads to brainlet takes like thinking Germany’s military performance in WW2 were somehow the same to America in Vietnam since they both lost. You win and lose in different ways and they matter. To lay it out simply
>America had the higher k:d ratio (like Germany)
>America also won most tactical engagements from the beginning to the end of their military involvement (unlike Germany)
>America ultimately still lost as they failed to achieve their main goals in Vietnam

If China is communist right now it means communism is working extremely well by capitalist metrics.

>it's capitalism because they sell shit

Not him and you are correct and I agreed with you. However I think other anons only ever start making the comparison and responding because
some people legit can't handle the fact that America ultimately lost, and they start throwing out the KDA logic every goddamn time

It was a military loss too. The US military couldn't achieve the goals given to it so it lost

they didn't win but the domino theory was ultimately proven false

A stragetic loss is a military loss so yeah obviously

>Cambodia and Laos immediately fell to Communism after Vietnam

If anything Domino theory was proven right. Caring about SE Asia falling to Communism in the first place was retarded because who cares?

>fails to achieve political objective of the war
>loses the ability to fight
>"we didn't lose guys"
>"we should have just let loose the army!"
As if that wasn't going to cause direct chinese involvement lmao

Attached: xc.jpg (491x331, 57K)

>why would the bank owning, degenerate media spreading, miscegenation encouraging Jews dislike an economically socialist country with socially conservative values that tries to prevent race mixing
Wow, it sure is a mystery

Attached: 18C5F492-279E-4EBD-B418-BAA4870417A4.png (400x400, 175K)

>why do you think its so fucking depressing for both sides veterans.
Do you actually really honestly think the Vietnam war is a tragedy for North Vietnamese veterans today because Vietnam has relaxed their socialist policies today (like China)? Do you really honestly belive that think that they feel they "fought for nothing" because Vietnam has good relations with the US today?????
I-is this what amerimutts ACTUALLY believe? you are SO fucking stupid. I am honestly totally flabbergasted. Do you really think the Vietnam War is perceived in Vietnam like it is in USA, a total pointless waste, a tradegy that shouldn't have happened.. because some McDonalds exist in Hanoi today...???

Attached: 1401653387440.png (767x675, 429K)

>>defeatist nigger spreading commie propaganda

Vietnam was an unwinnable half-measure war. They couldn't invade the north for fear of escalating the conflict, but they couldn't win without doing that. So what was the answer? No one knew. They just kept fighting.

You either do it right or don't do it.

And btw, the whole war was misguided. After the war Vietnam turned around and became a USA ally because their common enemy is china.

Vietnam worth more than cambodia and laos when it come to resources and strategic place for sure
But overall it wasn't just about how much they really worth, it is about fear of russia/china taking hold of control of more territory
Same reason why today it seems a bit comical to care that much about whether cuba is commie or not, but back then it was cold war fear + they are close to the us. The real main objective was always about breaking the soviet control around the world, after the soviet union collapse every else matter very little

>Some russians drive Volkswagen today
>LOOOOOL WHO EVEN WON WW2?? RUSKIES BTFO THE ENTIRE WAR WAS POINTLESS!! THE VETERANS KILLED THEMSELVES OUT OF SHAME FOR FIGHTING SUCH A POINTLESS WAR!! TODAY THERE EXIST BRANCHES OF GERMAN COMPANIES IN RUSSIA. MILLIONS DIED FOR NOTHING!!!!

Attached: 1510471249725.jpg (1280x720, 81K)

Unironic kek.

this
youtube.com/watch?v=uZmxZThb084

Great response

Only the Brits seem to have any idea about effective COIN strategy at the time. The only thing Americans and Rhodesians seem to go on about are winning engagements. Kind of makes sense I guess since COIN isn’t as fun to most people as killing.

You haven't watched this series, have you?

>radio station plays waltzes and Beatles songs while Saigon burns
That was a definite "Apocalypse Now" moment.

The war was to unify the country from the cuck puppet government in the South, while US wanted to prevent it. Luckily the demoralized and ineffective US couldnt quell the freedom fighters in the country and they had to flee region, spending decades (even until today) coping with their loss. The puppet-government they tried to prop up immediately fell and the country was swiftly reunified.

Even today, despite committing their atrocities to "help" South Vietnam, martsharts are quick to ignore their deaths and suffering, boasting about ONLY their own casualties in comparison with the Norths. Bragging about how many civilians they could massacre before they fled. A truly sick country!

Luckily, even today, when relations between the two are friendly again, Vietnam stands firmly united. A clear victory for the Vietnamese.

Attached: 1539412439923.jpg (685x1027, 131K)

Man I've been watching this over a week and loving it. Such a good doco

Ken Burns “The War”

Well yeah obviously they're different and I never would say they're not, but like the other user said KDA cope and a concept of winning over it is ridiculous. Not that you said that but look at some of the people in this thread who act like its not a loss unless vietnam conquers america

It was to unify the country, which they did.
It wasnt misguided. They wanted (and succeeded) in unifying the country, which American tried to prevent. The Sino-Soviet split, further geopolitical developments and normalization of relations between Vietnam and America does not make the successful unification of the country "misguided".

Attached: 1543168990278.jpg (295x476, 61K)

world at war is still the best, no contest. Since it was produced in the 70s it has the advantage of the interviewees being more senior guys. Hard to compete with that.

The whole war could have totally avoided

Even Ho Chi Minh foreseen this, one of his famous quote is that "It is better to sniff french dung for a while than eating chinese shit for the rest of our lives", he also talked about how the westerners one day will leave but if the chinese stay they will stay forever.

Also im surprised not to see anybody mentin aaron bank, he was the founder of the special forces aka the green beret. He actually spent quite a significant time travelling with ho after ww2 and then wrote to truman to consider backing them vs the french, ho himself also wrote a telegram/telegram to truman

docsteach.org/documents/document/ho-chi-minh-truman

But in the end politic wins I guess, backing them would be a bad move politically and you won't get reelected, so it inevitable lead to the war and costing million of people lives

So basically anything good that happens to Vietnam or if diplomacy arises decades after evactuating their nation, Americans chalk if up as a victory. They think they were fighying against ruin itself as they burned down forests and slaughtered civilians, and if they see a survivor of their scorched earth tactics in any way succeed decades later, they say it means thise people have been conquered

>provoking Chinese and Soviet intervention
Great strategy there, genius. "We had to destroy the planet in order to save it."

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-rg6sF74PPU 17 years in a gulag for standing up to the communists.

You think american leaders are particularly stupid but then you realize that if you put an average american in power they'd get Washington nuked in like a week.

So it's Vietnamese for Sammy Davis Junior?

She is not the one risking her fucking life and watching her friends die. Should he apologize for speaking the truth?

i'm a sick cong i'm in the viet cong

>back Vietnam over the French
Pretty sure that would have killed De Gaulle through pure seething

I think this part is what many people don't get, it wasn't just all for nothing. The country united in the end following the turmoil of a whole century of ending the monarchy and foreign invasion/ interfering.
It was painful, it cost a lot and you can argue one way or another that it could have been dealt better in some ways.

I sometimes think about korea and their situation, they weren't some sort of enemies of the world, most of the time they were the ones who got oppressed. Then the war happened and now the country and people got divided, sure some can argue that it has been wonderful for SK economically. But it can't erase the fact that half of the country and their people are still living in some sort of hell, and even the well off south koreans are not living in total peace and carefree because of the north crazy antics, all of those for what really

>Even Ho Chi Minh foreseen this, one of his famous quote is that "It is better to sniff french dung for a while than eating chinese shit for the rest of our lives", he also talked about how the westerners one day will leave but if the chinese stay they will stay forever.
so true... if only american wouldnt have committed their warcrime-campaign, the unified country could have stood with the US against them from the start! But the great satans thirst for blood is unquenchable... Even today Americans can be seen boasting about how many people they massacred in comparison to how many of their soldiers died...

cringe and incelpilled

hm, i wonder who this intellegent fellow voted for in the last election?

netflix should license more documentaries like this
their originals aren't as good or interesting

COOOPPPEEEEE

cope harder amerikek
>it was the homefronts fault, if we woulda just nuked the whole o' vietnam we woulda won the goddam war

I wonder if netflix will die out, they are bleeding shows left and right, and then other services start popping up with their own shit. Netflix projects are not all hit,esp the movies. The whole thing gonna push people back to piracy more imo
Also im not hating on them or anything, it is just a general pondering question, they probably gonna stay and doing well for a while unless they start doing really dumb moves

Retard

>this is your brain on /pol/

this thread sure is filled with seething yanks

Attached: ho-1.jpg (324x499, 32K)

This is the ultimate politics pill. Hating your own country first and foremost, because you have to live as it's citizen.

Regulus would disagree. So would the patriotic North Vietnamese who fought and won the war.

Is the civil war documentary so good that you would even recommend it for a non-american audience interested in history in general ?

>I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir!
>...whose side are you on?

Attached: 16b00776-a24f-4cea-b379-7a918a0188d5_screenshot.jpg (852x480, 24K)

not really a big enlightenment there bud

Vietnam had done nothing wrong though

Definitely

huh... your plot sounded familiar so I looked it up.
So HE was the one that wrote Sorrow of War?
We studied it in high school.
Pretty good book desu

definitely just for anybody interested in history in general

The uber cope
>look actually we won because historically things have changed since we lost the war
LMAO

>bruh
take your nigger speak facebook memes and get the fuck out

What? They literally fought against their country dude. The communists were the de facto rebels. You pretty much cant show the hate for your own country(men) more than to openly rebel and kill your brothers ans sisters.

simmer down there lil' fella

C O P E
O
P
E

This is absolute nonsense if you study the history of the country before the vietnam war
Because you are implying that the southern vietnam army is the established government to begin with and the communist just rebel against it
The communist started because france took over, ended the monarch and colonized the country
the southern vietnam army wasn't even a thing until 1955 when the US start backing them up after the geneva convention

hence there are 2 different terms between viet minh vs viet cong

shut up, newfag

France had a big left-wing presence at the time, and more or less threatened that if America allowed their empire to collapse without a fight the 3rd Republic would collapse and a "Soviet-friendly" socialist regime would come into power.

Based and gookpilled.

Ho Chi Minh established the Vietnamese republic across vietnam at the end of WWII after defeating the retreating Japanese
Roosevelt had promised HCM that there would be fair elections and no former colony would be returned to its masters.
He was hailed across the country and was a nationalist leader first.
The French came in some time after bitter about losing their colony and attempted to reconquer it
They fought a bloody war and eventually lost but managed to set up a puppet regime in the south with the aid of the USA and British

This began the slow decline, even worse when Kennedy had Ngô Đinh Diệm assassinated
The southern government never had much support if any and the ửa forced the northern government to become more radically socialist.

Its a very shameful situation, and I say this as a Vietnamese in Vietnam

Attached: 63F3145E-2DE5-4F53-9705-704EB953BF6B.jpg (4032x3024, 2.58M)

can confirm

Attached: de-gaulle-leads-france.jpg (375x525, 36K)

Yeah this is a pretty good short summary
It was still a majority fault of the US that they decide to come and dance when the party was supposed to be over, but it would be wrong to blame it all on them either and not mentioning the european (chiefly france) involvement that lead to this

>France had a big left-wing presence at the time
Fun fact : Ho Chi Minh was one of the first members of the france communisy party back in 1920 when he got there, crazy how it is all connected

I do know the history but the fact remains, the globally accepted state was the south, because china and russia dont really count during that time.
Diplomatically the north were rebels to every other state on earth.

I blame French pride and bitterness more than the USA
at least the Americans tried

>fun fact

Attached: reddit-alien.0.1521130548.png (1200x800, 119K)

kill yourself you fucking politics obsessed troglodyte

I can't find a year by year source, but in 1974 the US gave the South $813 million in military aid alone. Combined the USSR and China gave the North $850~$900 million in aid at that time, which also included medical and infrastructure, so its safe to say bullet for bullet/tank for tank the US was giving more aid than the commies, and even then the South was thoroughly outclassed in strategic operations.

>globally accepted
1. Not by the Vietnamese people
2. Not by China
3. Not by anyone after they won the war

If we wiped the jews out we wouldn't have any reason to wipe anyone else out.

>couldn’t win
retard tier, Nixon bombed the shit out of the commies on Christmas to bring them to the table, if it hadn’t been for Watergate things would have been different. but of course a stupid cuck believes retconned history.

Even with superior military aid, The US was in no shape to seriously threaten both the USSR and China with escalation. North Vietnam had the clear stragetical and political advantage.

>the globally accepted state
>rebels to every other state on earth

Well that is some western countries problem on its own. They waltz into other people country for no reason, they started shit and then divide the country into half then demand people to accept it as the status quo, and then start deeming people who question and fight against it as rebels. Sure it might sound like it make sense on paper to call them the rebels, but logically speaking it make no sense to call them rebels
Every other countries know the whole thing was a farce to begin with