Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
>biggest show in the world for past 8 years >1 reply
I so glad it’s over
Bentley Rivera
He's a sick, if very imaginative old man.
But in answer to Martin's question, Tolkein did begin to write a sequel to LOTR called The New Shadow. He quickly realized that it would be very much like GOT is, here's what he said about it:
"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men, it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing."
So there you have it, Tolkein recognized Middle Earth would head in that direction eventually, he was just not interested in writing about it. As for Aragorn specifically, is it really so difficult to imagine he would have been a good king?
Nathaniel Sullivan
The LOTR world eventually turned into the real world we live in today, so Martin got his questions answered really.
Kevin Wood
>says this shit >never explains how Westerosi currency works BRAVO GEORGE
Daniel Brown
that's what happens when the ending of a story shits on the audience for being emotionally invested in the first place.
Jackson Morales
No one is gonna read all this shit People don't come to Yea Forums for blogs. Just post some tits and less then 140 characters next time and if you want more responses.
Austin Sanchez
> but it would have been just that. Not worth doing. That would totally have been worth doing.
Owen Wilson
>is it really so difficult to imagine he would have been a good king?
it's important to remember that Tolkien was self-consciously myth-making from the same sources as Wagner. the idea of a "good king" is a trope: real rulers were subject to economics and harvests even if they were trying to do a good job. so of course the moment you start to apply reality to LOTR it loses its gloss. GRRM isn't being sick, he was just doing what Tolkien rightly saw as outside of his original intent.
Nathaniel Jackson
Yes, but Tolkein was not the person to write GOT, he wrote lighthearted stories to help deal with his crippling depression from a tough life well lived.
Martin writes depressing stories to help deal with his crippling loneliness, and add spice to his uneventful and sad existence.
Evan Gutierrez
Language is hard. This was maybe my answer to Martin, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. A Song of Ice and Fire had a very modern philosophy: that if the king was a good man, he would get his dick chopped off. We look at history and it’s not that simple. Martin can say that Bran became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Martin doesn’t ask the question: How was high Valyrian conjugated? Does the pluperfect tense of bravosi derive from the suffix? How did dragons understand the verb, “dracarys”? And what about all those lost westerosi languages? By the end of the war, the night king is gone but all of the autists aren’t gone – they’re in the Godswood, watching beautiful sisters be beautifully raped. Did Bran pursue a policy of monolingualism and kill all other languages? Even the little baby dialects in their little dialect regions?
so THAT'S why going to conventions has fucked up his words-per-day.
Ian Nguyen
There is that element to it, but even so, anyone who wouldn't want to vote Aaragorn for President is a moron.
To a certain extent, good men do make good kings, especially when that king is an excellent fighter (probably the best human warrior in Middle Earth), a great name (which grants him the Elves as close allies) and a shit ton of leadership experience (the guy is pushing 90).
To cap it off, his wife is nearly 3k years old, a fountain of wisdom to turn to.
Jacob Bennett
Precisely, he doesn't need to write so much because he has fans now, whereas Tolkein saw writing as more of a side thing and always preferred his university work.
Nolan Fisher
Weren't orcs made of evil?
Jordan Thomas
>Yea Forums should be Twitter with boobs.
Go make Twitter with boobs, maybe it'll make money.
Andrew Hall
It's just a gold standard where the value of gold is based off supply and demand, dumbass
Jace Sanders
That's what happens with mediocre popular shit. Nobody is talking about Breaking Bad or Prison Break as well.
Kevin Martin
Tolkein wrote on this too, essentially he acknowledged Orcs could be good, but he only wrote them as villains, there's also a lot about them being under the influence of the ring, like on some level the Orcs and evil men are bound to Sauron.
Luke Bailey
fucking Catholics lmao
Jacob Taylor
>That's what happens >Is one of most popular and active threads on board at time of posting.
Owen Anderson
its kinda funny he said this considering how the show ends with a barely functional cripple that owes millions to the bank and puts literal thieves working the top seats.
Matthew Green
There's no doubt a strong Catholic influence to Tolkein, it's subtle, the "Gods" aren't worshiped, nor would they wish to be, but instead simply admired, kind of like Saints are outside of Latin Catholicism.
Jason Green
>essentially he acknowledged Orcs could be good, I don't think he did? I remember him saying it was regrettable that he hadn't made them redeemable which went against his christian views.
Ryan Cooper
>20 years ago >I'm gonna dab on Tolkien so hard lmao
>now >show a failure that even normies hate >books will never come out >"M-my ending will be different...totally..."
>Humans got bored of peace and start satanist cults That's too realistic....
William Wilson
With the destruction of Sauron and the migration of the Elves into 'heaven', the events that follow the Third Age are essentially pre-history of our own real world. Why would Tolkien want to write about that depressing bullshit. After the third age all the magic had left the world and it was just Men and their nonsense. The War of the Ring was the end of his mythology.
Xavier Ward
why, where the fuck do orc babies come from?
Ryder Turner
What was Bran's tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these Dothraki? By the end of the war, Daenerys is gone but all of the Dothraki aren’t gone – they’re in the fields. Did Bran pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby Dothraki, in their little Dothraki cradles?
Jose Phillips
Kek true
Caleb Williams
So him not wanting to write a darker, more realistic story is praiseworthy? Why? Isn't that what most capeshitters today want, too? To see a lighthearted brainlet story that never asks the viewer to even think for a second what he is watching, but just consume and be entertained by the media. This is a very cucked view.
People these days want to watch LOTR, Marvel capeshit, Disney cartoons in order to escape their miserable, bleak lives. But escapism just makes them more and more depressed and it is not helping them cope at all with the world they live in.
That's why Martin's story is superior, whether you like the man or not. He doesn't try to present you as this fairy tale drama about the good guys who defeat the bad guys and live happily ever after. He presents nuances, things that happen, have happened and will continue to happen in our world.
Nicholas Phillips
Of course it's realistic. After all, according to Tolkien, Middle Earth is prehistoric Earth.
Michael Gray
>So him not wanting to write a darker
He did write darker stories you fucking retard, with incest and all the characters commit suicude. He just wasn't stuck on that out of the pretense of being "realistic". How about you try reading any of Tolkien's writings before actually trying to criticize him as an author you subliterate smooth brained mouth breather.
Anthony Bennett
That's not praising Tolkein, it's just acknowledging he didn't have the heart for that sort of thing, and I don't blame him for it.
The fact that you compare LOTR to common capeshit shows what a brainlet you are though.
William Wright
reedit went back to reedit
Lucas Gomez
>it's just acknowledging he didn't have the heart for that sort of thing
That's not true at all.
Cameron Jenkins
He read some Malazan and realised what tokien was lacking
Owen Gray
>He did write darker stories you fucking retard Yes, darker. But with the same one note complexity as the LOTR books. >The fact that you compare LOTR to common capeshit shows what a brainlet you are though. LOTR is pretty much proto capeshit, though.
Jayden Anderson
>Of course it's realistic. After all, according to Tolkien, Middle Earth is prehistoric Earth. He scrapped that idea. He decided he wanted it just to be his little fictional world far from real life.
Ian Turner
What part isn't true? That he didn't have the heart for it? He said he didn't.
That the post acknowledges Tolkein didn't have the heart for it? Read between the lines just a little, you faggot.
Ryder Murphy
And all modern literature has its origins in the classics, but you don't blame all bad books on MacBeth.
Cuz you didn't read it.
Jacob Parker
Tried to figure out the show's biggest FUCK YOU and couldn't: there is just too much stuff to work with, it's incredible really. Even relatively small stuff like bran not wanting to be the ruler of winterfell but when absolute power is in question "oh of course silly, this is why i wheeled here hehe" Still, I will defend Theon's end: even if it was ultimately pointless and a waste of his life it was a meaningful ending for him personally:
Justin Torres
The biggest reason for why GRRM and his works are inferior to Tolkien is simply the level of prose. Tolkien’s prose is fluid and incredibly poetic. Meanwhile GRRM’s writing is all over the place. Too many shitty sex scenes, unnecessary descriptions, and overused phrases
Daniel Perez
>And all modern literature has its origins in the classics, but you don't blame all bad books on MacBeth. There have been "bad books" way before Macbeth. You can go to Sasanian Persia or ancient Greece or Rome and find them. Problem with LOTR isn't in the simplicity of the conflict (good vs evil), it's in the simplicity in everything else. >But Ungoliant had grown great, and he less by the power that had gone out of him; and she rose against him, and her cloud closed about him, and she enmeshed him in a web of clinging thongs to strangle him. Then Morgoth sent forth a terrible cry, This is not great prose. Tolkien is pretty much appreciated by neckbeards who have only read Harry Potter in their life. Tolkien was a very mediocre writer.
Eli Bailey
I'm guessing you don't even read books yourself, the user who gets by on improvisation alone. The contrarian who contrarions to be a contrarion, because it's bored and wants to feel smartie.
Brody Foster
Post Tolkien's written sex scenes
Matthew Taylor
Did he ever write anything like that? Yes, someone please post.
Angel Wilson
>Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles? are there even baby orcs? I thought Sauron created all of them, thats more like a bio-robot thingy
Thomas Moore
All George does is rip off history and add the slightest dash of magic to it. Dance of Dragons, literally just The Anarchy except shorter and bloodier for the people who want the throne. He's even acknowledged all he cares about when it comes to history is the popular stuff about betrayals, affairs, murders, etc. not the realistic and shit about actually ruling and how
Joshua Davis
The Elves were monogamous as naturally as they were oxygen-breathers. A wedding would have many customary ceremonies, but the defining act would be the couple's first bodily union. After that they were married for keeps, and in theory nothing more would be required - but at least in times of peace such a wedding would be very rude to the families involved.
The couple would have plenty of sex early in their marriage, but once they were done having children their interest in sex would wane, though they would remain deeply in love with each other while pursuing all their other interests in life.
Jace Ortiz
woah there buddy, you seem to have posted on Yea Forums instead of reddit. you won't get any upvotes here for being a faggot.
Carter Roberts
>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with.
Please stop posting that picture of me on 4channel..... it's embarassing
Nolan Price
>What was Aragorn’s tax policy? eh they said he was a good king so I'm sure he had reasonable policies. >Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles? there are no orc babies, they basically shit and puke tumors out that grow into goblins and orcs. Naturally fewer of these would appear the further men drove them from civilization, they would die off easily and in the end wherever they end up alone the survivors will kill each other because orcs are corrupted beings and cannot into society.
Lincoln Lewis
But Tolkien clearly made the orcs as an analogy to blacks. Now you're just empowering his racism. It's 2019 trumper, grow out of it.
Grayson Cruz
it's clearly wine and whores.
Leo Cooper
It was Morgoth, Sauron's old boss, who created them by warping captured elves. Honestly unsure on how they procreate, but they must have some way of expanding their numbers.
Juan Morgan
>real rulers were subject to economics and harvests even if they were trying to do a good job except a good king would literally plan for such events and keep a surplus to be distributed in times of famine etc.
This gets posted a lot, but nobody has ever been able to refute him.
Sebastian Morgan
This gets posted a lot *BY ME*
Chase Wright
>But Tolkien clearly made the orcs as an analogy to blacks
Close. Orcs are analogous to all non-whites.
Hunter James
>So him not wanting to write a darker, more realistic story is praiseworthy? Why? Isn't that what most capeshitters today want cuz he wasn't writing for capeshitters, retard
Kayden Campbell
>What was Bran’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these Dothraki? By the end of the war, Daenerys is gone but all of the Dothraki aren’t gone – they’re in the fields. Did Bran pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby Dothraki, in their little Dothraki cradles?
Luis Bailey
What's Ned Stark's tax policy?
Oliver Bennett
>Honestly unsure on how they procreate, but they must have some way of expanding their numbers. rape
James Sullivan
Interesting. And who do they rape?
Tyler Sanders
>Did Bran pursue a policy of monolingualism and kill all other languages? Even the little baby dialects in their little dialect regions? Fucking lmao
Jayden Thompson
>But Tolkien clearly made the orcs as an analogy to blacks. Nope, you retard.
Robert Cruz
no arguments? ok. >All George does is rip off history and add the slightest dash of magic to it. And what do you think LOTR is? It's a rip-off of the Bible and a bunch of other mythologies. >woah there buddy, you seem to have posted on Yea Forums instead of reddit what are you talking about? Reddit loves LOTR. LOTR is medieval capeshit.
William Anderson
>It's a rip-off of the Bible and a bunch of other mythologies But not so directly and obvious as George. Dance of Dragons is literally the Anarchy. Several events are almost 1 to 1. And then his worldbuilding is almost the same thing, directly ripping off other authors right down to names of places and things, copying pop culture stereotypes about foreign people like orientals or Indians/Middle Easterners
Kevin White
Seriously, his description of "Yi Ti" is "these are my fantasy Asian race guys" what a fucking hack.
Levi Roberts
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ELDEN RING
The only reason he wrote the books and accepted they become a series is so he could get laid with thirsty fangirls in cons.
Sebastian Sanchez
>self-inserts as a literal cuck
Joshua Adams
>But with the same one note complexity as the LOTR books.
But you haven't read any of his books, which is why you didn't know that he hadn't written anything darker, so how the fuck would you be able to judge that you fucking nonce?
Chase Scott
He had the heart for it which is why he wrote darker stories. Maybe try to experience Tolkien outside of Peter Jackson and video games, faggot.
Parker Green
The man's a genius.
Isaac Wright
you literally could not create a more punchable face with all the science on earth
Jaxson Turner
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles? Yes, yes he fucking would
Owen Mitchell
The reason ASOIAF/GOT talk doesn't last is that it is meaningless post-modern entertainment. There is no message, no lesson to remember.
Sebastian Lewis
>I, too, only play M rated games for mature gamers such as myself.
This is your approach to writing. You're so immature you're still stuck with that exact mindset, that sex and violence makes you more grown up. Child.
Brody Hughes
Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to GRRM, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Game of Thrones had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. GRRM can say that Bran became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But GRRM doesn’t ask the question: What was Bran’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these Dothraki? By the end of the war, Daenerys is gone but all of the Dothraki aren’t gone – they’re in the Crownlands. Did Bran pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby Dothraki, in their little Dothraki cradles?
Samuel Wood
only an autistic faggot would read a fantasy book and ask what a king’s fucking TAX POLICY was.
Justin James
>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Hitler, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. The Holocaust had a very medieval philosophy: that if the dictator was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. We can say that Hitler became dictator and the third reich reigned for a thousand years, and he was wise and good. But Hitler doesn’t ask the question: What about the niggers? Did he slaughter them too? What about the spics, wops, and gooks? And what about all these jannies? By the end of the war, jews are gone but all of these jannies aren’t gone – they’re doing it for free! Did Hitler pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby jannies, in their little jannie cradles?
Eli Fisher
So why doesn't fatty include any tax policies, oh wait I know why
>and lastly, there could be a parallelism between Aegon the Conqueror, and the spanish "conquistadores". Let me explain: Hernán Cortés for example, with less than a hundred men conquered the Aztec Empire...(Dragons=gunpowder?)
>I know about Cortez, but Aegon the Conquerer derives more from William the Conquerer. >I would love to become more familiar with Spanish history. Can you recommend any good English language popular histories? I stress "popular." I am not looking for academic tomes about changing patterns of land use, but anecdotal history rich in details of battles, betrayals, love affairs, murders, and similar juicy stuff.
This is why battles in ASOIAF make no sense, economy and currency make no sense, distance and size make no sense, population and numbers make no sense. George is a hack, he just copies "juicy" shit and has it all happening at the same time as other ripped off "juicy" stuff to lure normies
Benjamin Carter
The worst offender imo is his timeline. A single conflict fucks the whole westeros map and nobility landscape, but we're to believe families like the Stark are documented and stable for like 2000 years.
Luis Martin
Don't forget controlling a place the size of South America using feudalism and only administrative titles existing being Lord and King. George has literally no awareness of what it actually takes to rule a city much less a country and much much less a continent. He literally disregarded the other noble titlesbecause he knows jackshit about them and it would get too complicated for him
Easton Johnson
Preteen, cripple tree wizard with NO claim to the throne. Enjoy your surveillance state, bro.
Is there a bigger fucking hypocrite in writing? Every single "problem" he identifies is present in Game of Thrones (inb4 the books will be different, they're never going to be fucking finished)
>tax policy Iron Bank pays for everything and at the end of the story they never ask for repayment of anything
> a standing army Magic regenerating armies of Dothraki and Unsullied that are 100% loyal solve every problem and then disappear when they are no longer needed
>food and famine The winter that everyone was worried about for 8 years lasted for a single night so even though they had previously said they wasn't enough food no one starved
> Even the little baby Fortunately all the White Walkers died at the same time instantly with the Night King, so there was no need for Jon to bloody his hands and kill the toddler White Walker from season 3
Jaxon Stewart
If it was blue, maybe.
Wyatt Mitchell
>But not so directly and obvious as George Really? The Morgoth Lucifer connection, the creation of the world, Numenor/Atlantis? Please, LOTR is just as much of a ripoff of real history as ASOIAF is. The only difference is basically that Tolkien mostly ripped off from mythologies while George did from real events. >which is why you didn't know that he hadn't written anything darker Where do you get that from? >that sex and violence makes you more grown up No, a complex story with complex characters makes a good story. One that LOTR, unfortunately, doesn't possess. Don't get me wrong, it's a good mindless schlock that you can waste your time reading or watching. And in that regard it's probably a little higher of a level than capeshit considering I don't find capeshit good at all, but is it something that will stick with you? No.
And ASOIAF isn't mindless schlock? Is ASOIAF great literature?
Jeremiah Hall
If was were him, I wouldn't fucking write anymore either.
Easton Lewis
No, but it is a lot better than LOTR is with characters that you can empathize with and understand who and why they are who they are. And as far as literature goes, we're talking about fantasy here. There are limitations on how far you can push in that genre and I find GRRM to be one of the ones to push the furthest.
At least two different anons refuted him in this thread.
Robert Phillips
>The most explosive aphrodisiac. This made me laugh.
Jason Reed
The economy of Westeros doesn't even make any sense, so I don't know why GRRM would even criticize Tolkien for that.
Dominic Allen
Absolutely. Tolkien's prose is very overrated by kiddies that have only read Harry Potter, as I said. He has very poor writing style. For example, he usually goes on endless descriptions of absolutely inconsequential shit at the worst moments possible, poorly executed battle scenes and far too often he writes scenes that do do nothing to further the main story. I think I already posted a quote in this thread about how shitty his writing style is. In fact, the writers back then didn't consider his prose any good and even today his prose is considered shit by anyone who is above the age of 12.
William King
I don't even watch Game of Thrones and I haven't seen the Lord of the Rings trilogy yet despite my girlfriend wanting to, and being personally interested in Tolkien's legendarium. So I can't comment on the actual differences between them, their work, and the hypocrisies that may or may not been inherent to GRRM's work.
I'm just saying, at least two anons refuted the pasta bait in the OP's post, so...
Ian Ross
Why is it not great prose?
Andrew Wilson
>and she >and her >and she >all in the same sentence. I already posted the example of his "great prose" in the thread.
Ryder Perez
>and being personally interested in Tolkien's legendarium
I am the 180 pound, six foot tall inheritor of the genetics of a college football star. I would crush you.
Bentley Ward
Hahah
Daniel Turner
>Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles? GRRM is retarded
Jordan Martinez
Corrupted elves. Melkor couldnt create anything because he didnt have the flame imperishable. One of the other valar was so impatient for the coming of man that he created the dwarves, but they had no life until illuvatar breathed life into their nostrils
its little dothraki saddles. Someone fucked it up and now i see the wrong pasta everywhere
Chase Ramirez
>Morgoth Lucifer connection, the creation of the world, Numenor/Atlantis? Why yes I remember how Lucifer sang to create discord in the world, made dragons and waged war on people while God ignored him until he became a threat to heaven and then just let him get chained then released so long as he stayed a good boy. I also remember God needing help from others to make things in the beginning. And who can forget Atlantis waging war on Heaven after being corrupted by an evil prisoner lesser god and survivors getting away.
No. George directly rips shit off
Justin Evans
Those parallels are intentional with tolkien because its supposed to be a myth of our real world, so you can see how its tied to modern myths.
Samuel Powell
>One of the other valar was so impatient for the coming of man that he created the dwarves Fun times.
But that’s stupid. Is Homer badly written? Is Chaucer? Is Milton? Is the King James Bible, or Beowulf? By your standards, all would be badly written because they don’t follow the conventions of modern pop lit. Ulysses - badly written? It’s clear to me that Tolkien is aping, successful, the high, declamatory style of Anglo-Saxon skalds, and that his prose style should be judged accordingly. Also - a lot of your critique is highly subjective. Personally, I find much of his battle-writing brutal and succinct.
Eli Hill
Literal retard
Kayden Brooks
Youre not reading it correctly. He does it to create an intentional rhythm like this >But Ungoliant had grown great, and he less by the power that had gone out of him; and she ROSE against him, and her cloud CLOSED about him, and she ENMESHED him in a web of clinging thongs to STRANGLE him.
Zachary Fisher
>I want a continent sized Britain that's somehow still politically united in a low-magic setting where it takes weeks if not months to travel from one region to another >This is realistic Yeah no shit. The Kingdom of Westeros should have disintegrated about five minutes after the last dragon died.
Tyler Brown
I'm the one who posted here. I apologise for my mistake and promise to do better in the next thread.
Brayden Morris
What's Joffrey's tax policy
John Hall
Who cares? He died.
Andrew Walker
Twitter already has boobs, you aren't following the right people.
Jaxon Cooper
Modern Nation State internal revenue systems didn't exist in Medieval societies. There was no 'tax policy' that is comparable to our systems.
Benjamin Richardson
This isn't entirely true. You have to remember that Tolkien was undecided on whether his universe was our world in an ancient past, or else a separate, parallel universe.
Brandon Campbell
I love you and its okay
Christian Martin
>his universe was our world in an ancient past, or else a separate, parallel universe Why not the far future?
Jaxson Jenkins
And you think you know Tolkein by reading his Bib on Wikipedia, his "darker" stuff, isn't at all what you make it out to be with you postering.
Benjamin Robinson
Fuck off GRRM
you were so unoriginal you even stole Tolkien's "RR", and your book has less sales than fucking twilight for christ's sake
Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Martin, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. ASOIAF had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, he would fuck whores. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Martin can say that Robert became king and reigned for a couple years, and he was fat and drunk. But Martin doesn’t ask the question: What was Robert’s tax policy? Did he maintain a royal whorehouse? What did he do in times of sexual diseases? And what about all these bastards? By the end of the fuck, the whore is gone but all of the bastards aren’t gone – they’re in the slums. Did Robert pursue a policy of systematic fatherliness and beat them? Even the little baby bastards, in their little bastard cradles?
How did Littlefinger cook the books for so long without anybody noticing? Why didn't Rhaegar or Lyanna tell anybody what happened?
Elijah Taylor
I do quibble
Lucas Powell
How do no one figure out Robert was getting cucked
David Morris
>How did Littlefinger cook the books for so long without anybody noticing? He was the only smart man in King's Landing. Shame his IQ was inversely proportional to the temperature of his surroundings. >Why didn't Rhaegar or Lyanna tell anybody what happened? Rhaegar was afraid. Don't believe what the bards say, he was pussywhipped in reality.
Cooper Jackson
How come show Stannis was the only one who thought Ned Stark's story about Jon didn't add up?
delusional, wrong and capeshitter, fuck off retard... GRRM is literally Marvel, his writing is low quality, his story is shit, his ending copied LOTR
Cameron Gutierrez
Because a teen Ned is somehow known by everyone as a complete honorfag. How did he get this reputation when he's so young, only ever been in the North, Vale, and that one tourney in the riverlands where he didn't compete, is only a second son and never went South again until asked to be Hand? Just turn your brain off.
Stannis is a suspicious man so he's suspicious of everyone else too
Nathaniel Scott
Based Stannis shoulda won the throne. It's what Eddard would of wanted
Kayden Green
He was an honorfag, yet everybody believed that he cheated on his wife. He just went to King's Landing with his sisters body and a baby, and nobody suspected a thing.
People call Ned dumb, but he easily got one over on everybody else for over a decade. He also found out that Cersei was cucking Robert and that her children were bastards. Only Jon Arryn and Stannis knew at that point.
Mason Peterson
>subverted your expectations! >le no good guy bad guy edgy Cringe.
Hudson Taylor
Now what he would of wanted, what he actually did want.
Dominic Richardson
>he easily got one over on everybody else for over a decade. Based on an unearned reputation. How does everyone just accept that Ned can't lie? Even after coincidentally coming back with a baby and his sister's body and a wet nurse in fucking Dorne? He'd never even been to Dorne or South of the Riverlands until the war and AFTER Rhaegar was dead so when could he have even fucked to have a kid be born in Dorne and even the Daynes don't acknowledge Jon as half Dayne so it can't be Ashara as the mom?
Jonathan Walker
Orcs bred like any other race after they were initially corrupted you dumbass.
Ian Clark
>How does everyone just accept that Ned can't lie? Why would anyone doubt Ned's word? It's not like Jon is that much of a suspicious child, he looks more Stark than anything. >Even after coincidentally coming back with a baby and his sister's body and a wet nurse in fucking Dorne? These journeys take months. the war campaign took years or something. It's not unreasonable to assume he banged some slut. And it's not like anyone gives a fuck on who Jon is. Only Robert would have spared a thought, but since Jon didn't have any Targaryen characteristics and he isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed, he'd dismiss it.
Christian Powell
Targaryens in the past didn't all have Valyrian features. Robert was part Targaryen. Robert believed that Rhaegar raped Lyanna, and the honorable Ned Stark strolls up with his sister's body and a baby. That should have raised an eyebrow at least.
Wyatt Clark
GRRM is shit, but those are not the most famous GOT lines for fucks sake. I didn't ever remember them before reading this thread. They're not even on wikiquote.
Luke Foster
>Why would anyone doubt Ned's word? Because he comes back with his sister's body, a baby and a wet nurse after his excursion to Dorne where he fights members of the kingsguard. How is everyone's first thought not that the kid is Rhaegar's?
>take months. the war campaign took years or something War happened and finished within a year, Ned did not participate in any battles South of the Riverlands where Robert killed Rhaegar, it's literally impossible for him to fuck someone who ends up in Dorne and in close proximity to house Dorne to need to take one of their servants. Robert isn't the only person with a brain or opinion in Westeros, how is no one else suspicious?
Xavier Parker
Littlefinger and Varys should have been suspicious, at the very least. Show Littlefinger seemed to doubt the official story, if season 5 is anything to go by.
>Robert was part Targaryen Robert's Targaryen connections go way back. By his time centuries have passed and the chances of Targaryen characteristics popping up is next to zero. >Robert believed that Rhaegar raped Lyanna, and the honorable Ned Stark strolls up with his sister's body and a baby. He didn't "stroll" anywhere, he returned back to Winterfell. The timeline surrounding the events is hazy. All people know is that Ned left KL to go south to look for his sister. They know that he went to Storm's End first, then to the Tower of Joy, then to Starfall. They know that when he eventually returned to Winterfell, he had a baby with him.
But how long did this whole trip take? And where exactly did Ned pick the baby up? Before ToJ? At Starfall? After Starfall? So most of them take the story as face value because of Ned's reputation. He has never been one to lie. And even if some people have their suspicions, how are they going to prove anything? Only one person from that event survived and he is a staunch ally of Ned who would never reveal what happened to the wrong person. Plus, for the entire campaign Lyanna was isolated in the TOJ. Nobody knew of her pregnancy and what not. >How is everyone's first thought not that the kid is Rhaegar's? Why would anyone believe the kid is Rhaegar's? He carries no Rhaegar characteristics, there was plenty of time for Ned to fuck a random wench on the road and sleeping in castles (which was to be expected from a lord).
Furthermore, why the fuck would anyone put much emphasis on Jon's parentage? You as a reader would. But why would a random lord care? The intricacies of the many rapes of Rhaegar are mostly Robert's delusion. >it's literally impossible for him to fuck someone who ends up in Dorne and in close proximity to house Dorne to need to take one of their servants Who says he fucked someone who ends up in Dorne?
Aaron Williams
>Robert's Targaryen connections go way back. To his grandmother.
Jordan Wood
>Why would anyone believe the kid is Rhaegar's? Did you even read my post? Lyanna, baby, Dorne on the same trip the first fucking thought is that Rhaegar knocked her up, everyone already thinks Rhaegar was fucking her and he'll, even Ned thought it was weird the kingsguard would be there instead of with Viserys they're new king. It's impossible that no one suspected or questioned anything.
Again, did you read my post. Ned was never South of the Riverllands until after Rhaegar was dead, literally no time to get a woman pregnant in time to have a baby be born and no chance to get to Dorne to get a woman pregnant.
Where else would the baby come from? No kid when he frees Stannis, no kid when getting to King's Landing suddenly a kid getting back from Dorne and wet nurse aka the person that feeds the baby to keep it alive, is also Dornish. Everything is Fornish or related to Dorne including where the baby came from and Lyanna
Ethan Hall
>This was maybe my answer to Martin, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with >Tolkien >admire Martin It doesn't work.
Blake Hill
Don't forget to point out to user that Robert's dad didn't look Targaryen either
Gurm’s supposed “realism” is just adding tits, whores, and political backstabbing to fantasy.
James Moore
Fair point. Forgot about that. >Lyanna, baby, Dorne on the same trip the first fucking thought is that Rhaegar knocked her up, everyone already thinks I don't remember anyone knowing where the baby popped up from. Just that when he came back to Winterfell he was carrying a baby. >literally no time to get a woman pregnant in time to have a baby be born and no chance to get to Dorne to get a woman pregnant. Again, I do not remember that George said how much time have passed since the sack of King's Landing and TOJ. And even before that we can reasonably assume that he could have fucked a random wench. >No kid when he frees Stannis, no kid when getting to King's Landing suddenly a kid getting back from Dorne and wet nurse aka the person that feeds the baby to keep it alive, is also Dornish Why does he have to have a kid in any of these situations? He had more than a year long campaign, he could have had sex at any point of time. and then learned of the baby at a later point? >and wet nurse aka the person that feeds the baby to keep it alive, is also Dornish So? Could be a random woman he picked up to feed the baby. Plus, Dornish people could travel anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms.
Anthony Long
>remember anyone knowing where the baby popped up from Dornish wet nurse literally fresh from a Dornish House in Dorne. It's an obvious tell. The fact no one puts the obvious together is ridiculous. Ned shouldn't even be able to avoid being seen on his way to Winterfell
>we can reasonably assume that he could have fucked a random wench No we can't, literally not enough time. Jon is even 9 months older than Dany who's mom was sent away after Rhaegar was killed at the Trident. There's no time to teleport to Dorne to knock up a wench
>and then learned of the baby at a later point? Doesn't make sense that he has a Dornish wet nurse then. Only place he could have a bastard he only later finds out about is in the Riverlands, Vale or North, which is too late to get a Dornish wet nurse.
>Dornish people could travel anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms. She's literally a servant of House Dayne, did you read the books or are you a wikifag?
Jaxon Garcia
How can Ned Stark travel all the way from the Tower of Joy to Winterfell without anybody noticing that he has a baby?
Wyatt Brown
>Ned tells Robert Wylla is Jon's mom after he tries to remember it >Edric Dayne thinks Wylla, who was also his wet nurse, is the mother >Cat doesn't know who the mother is after 13, 14 years >Cersei taunts Ned that he fucked Ashara Lmao, why can't George keep this shit straight
Henry Diaz
I hate this fat fuck and this stupid fucking show I hate it so fucking much
daily reminder dany was genuinely a shit person the entire show. if you agree otherwise you're quite literally either a waifufag or a zoomer upset about your YAAAAAAS QUEEN being taken down.
Josiah Garcia
>NOOOO! YOU CAN'T KILL PEOPLE WITH FIRE, EVEN THOUGH I ALREADY KILLED THOUSANDS WITH FIRE! THINK OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION!
If Dany didn't go mad for no reason, married Jon, and ruled Westeros, would that really be a bad ending? She demonstrated, to her detriment, that she was willing to compromise, and there is far more reason for everybody not to secede if she was in power.
Tolkien was writing moral parables, not a political drama. Tolkien is more of the Biblical tradition versus the more Shakespearean GRRM.
Samuel Stewart
Remember how people used to think he would announce Winds during the finale of the tv show? Just finish the book and die already you fat fuck!
Joseph Richardson
Based?
Hunter Bennett
LOTR and GOT are both horseshit in their own regards tho. If you're above 12 years you'll have to admit the stories dont explore any interesting themes or character developments. However, that's a general problem with Fantasy literature which is often 100% atmosphere but 0% content. They're entertaining if you like it, but people should stop to pretend that it's deeper than some random capeshit trope or schlock like SW. A story doesn't become epic because the genre title says so.
Michael Hall
But if Winds comes out, Stannis will die.
Adrian Gray
>they’re in the Godswood, watching beautiful sisters be beautifully raped. Stonefaced until this part, fucking lmao
>Well spoken, my friend. >Also, religion is hard. This was maybe my answer to G.R.R. MArtin, whom, as much as I respect him, I do quibble with. A Song of Ice and fire had a very medieval philosophy: that if you have a god, you never get a reward. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Martin can say that Stannis turned faith as a means to enforce his claim as a king, and got shat in the face as a consequence. We still don’t even know if he actually burnt his own daughter, or even if he’s still alive. But Martin doesn’t ask the question: how many sins did each different religion condemn? Were they there just for flavor and didn’t really matter? What about good people who are happy yet do not ask happiness of their gods? How many rites did they have? Are monotheistic religions non-existent? How are there no dragon-gods, and who created the children of the forest, with their little baby forests?
>I could have written an interesting story, but I didn't. Wow, groundbreaking.
Oliver Garcia
>An interesting story 4 u
Henry Sanchez
His idea is more original than ASOIAF. Lol let me just copy the juicy parts of history books. Lol fuck religion though cause I'm atheist, people are totally tolerant
Hunter Thompson
Even Tolkien couldn't decide how they procreate.
Gabriel Barnes
>Lol fuck religion How did you come to that conclusion? The most sympathetic family in ASOIAF is highly religious, and there is SOMETHING out there, given all the Rh'llor shenanigans.
Elijah Butler
One wrote to inspire us away from our carnal viscous ways to feel as something more than just human beings with faults The other still drags us down to reality and perpetuates our animalistic nature Which is better really You tell me my friend
Liam Fisher
There is zero reason the Faith and High Septon should have been so weak when Aegon came or after. No crusades, no religious persecution, no bringing the heads of heathens and God will grace you and you can be a saint. No asking High septon for permission for major campaigns, no corrupt rich Bishops, little internal religious, lol just wait for the next high septon who's a pussycorruption. And worship of the Old Gods is shit, just go to a tree and that's it, what the fuck kind of religion is that? Where's the ceremony, the coming of age, the baptism. Their world is shit.
Jace Howard
*religious corruption
Jaxson Martinez
show and books are totally different aside from the first three and a half seasons
Daniel Hughes
Buddy, I'm not saying that religion is realistically depicted; there are many things that aren't realistically depicted. However, in ASOIAF, there are supernatural events that coincide with religion. GRRM didn't use the serious to show how religion is all a scam. The King in the end is a tree wizard who worships the Old Gods.
Henry Nelson
It ends with a magical cripple who's essentially the ultimate spymaster that could exist, and can crush any conflict before it rears its head.
Aiden Murphy
taking the most cynical, realistic approach isn't necessarily the most healthy.
Do you really and truly believe that GoT fans are well-adjusted, happy members of society, while those who love and grew up with Tolkien are mostly miserable escapists? And even if that were so, those who hate the idea of escape the most are the jailers. And reading literature like Tolkien is a far better way to escape from misery than the path your type counsels - the pursuit of money and women. The shallow capricious gods of your mind and ideology.
A genuine work of art can give you inspiration, in the darkest of times, a reminder that the world is not solely evil or black, that there is beauty in it. And LoTR is far closer to evoking this knowledge than GoT. No one will ever feel for any of the scenes in GoT the same way they feel about the last Ride of the Rohirrim. About Frodo and Sam glimpsing a star from the midst of the darkness of Mordor. About Gandalf's speech. Because everything in those scenes reflect a deep sense of reality that comes only to those who've sunk into the deepest pits of despair.
And the greatest tragedy of all is that you have no empathy or concept of why those scenes appeal, and think that superficial worldliness is a virtue and weakness a vice. That realism is an end, not a means.
This isn't to necessarily criticize GoT, either. It's a very good soap opera that is occasionally profound. Nor to necessarily elevate LotR, which is first and foremost an adventure story, not something on the level of Dostoevsky. But in the end that is what GoT is. An entertaining soap opera, an exceptional but otherwise typical example of late 20th century fantasy.
Aaron Long
>supernatural events that coincide with religion Except George is a staunch atheist and said it's just magic people just subscribe magic acts to one God or another. Same with the "Old Gods" who aren't gods, they just have magic, prayer and sacrificing to the tree doesn't get you jackshit, the dude on the other side just uses blood for magic for his own shit and has inherent magic you're just born with and develop either by practice or drinking blood given to you by already practiced magic users. The Seven are cucked and no one sacrifices to them and no one is feeding off anyone 's efforts to do magic. Religion is shit in ASOIAF, magic is just real. Bran worshiping himself as an inheritor of magic cause of blood, born as a greenseer, doesn't mean shit for religion
Owen Sullivan
>And worship of the Old Gods is shit, just go to a tree and that's it, what the fuck kind of religion is that? Where's the ceremony, the coming of age, the baptism. Their world is shit. This. The religious side of Martin's worldbuilding is weak. Even animistic societies have shamans and shit
Camden Sanders
That ultimate spymaster surely didn't give a fuck about using his powers for good in any way.
I've seen this image been posted a lot, and despite knowing that GOT showrunners were fucking hacks I think I get that particular scene.
>Imagine you're playing a story-driven videogame for the 3rd time >You already know most of the outcomes >The emotional connection to the story ended sometime around the 2nd playthrough >You knew the rape was inevitable so you don't care, same for the characters
Wouldn't you cherrypick the most outrageuos lines and options just to spice it up and see what the fuck happens?
Oliver Flores
I’m so this hacks tv show got turned into the mess it is Tolkien is still king And the trilogy is still pure kino No doubt that even amazon won’t be able to undermine it with the bullshit remaster they’re making
Logan Sullivan
>a reminder that the world is not solely evil or black, that there is beauty in it What is the Quiet Isle
Dominic Walker
>That's why Martin's story is superior, whether you like the man or not. He doesn't try to present you as this fairy tale drama about the good guys who defeat the bad guys and live happily ever after. He presents nuances, things that happen, have happened and will continue to happen in our world.
>Wouldn't you cherrypick the most outrageuos lines and options just to spice it up and see what the fuck happens? Yeah, if one is a sociopath who lacks empathy--basically what Bran turned out to be in the show. He doesn't give a fuck about anybody but himself.
Joshua Bennett
Bran foresaw Daenerys rule peacefully if she hadn't been driven to madness, but also probably the return of more dragons, which means more violence with her descendants just like it was before. Ends justify the means and all that.
Justin Ward
He can't crush conflict all he can do is know about it and warg mindfuck people
Julian Williams
That sounds like a whole lot of your headcanon. Daenerys killed more people in 40 minutes than everybody else in the rest of the series combined, so I seriously call into question your "greater good" theory.
Charles Nguyen
>mindfuck people how is that not one of the most useful things for crushing conflict?
Carter Johnson
>no response from the baiting tard
Matthew Martinez
How does mindfucking people deal with "the human heart in conflict?"
Elijah Ramirez
based tolkien
Jack Wright
I never said it was related to that
Brayden Cook
Why didn't he mindfuck Cersei or Euron then?
Carter Watson
>Daenerys killed more people in 40 minutes than everybody else in the rest of the series combined, After a chain of events which Bran started after revealing the truth of Jon's parentage to Sansa. Bran at first wants Jon to know he is the true heir but then chooses the outcome where a city is torched and Jon is exiled again.
Henry Lee
I don't get how it not being related to "the human heart in conflict" means questioning why he didn't mindfuck Euron or Cersei. Pick one angle or the other.
Bran mindfucks Cersei or Euron and Daenerys takes the throne. If Bran's goal is to be king in the end, it makes sense that such an unlikely outcome requiring an unlikely event. Whether that's muh best story or something else is yet to be known but its not a coincidence that Bran's predecessor is someone with very similar intentions and powers.
Juan King
get lost, obstructed brain activity coomer
Christian Jackson
He can't mindfuck people far away, he can protect himself but he can't stop things from going to shit just cause he knows about it
Carter Clark
>lotr is basically capeshit seems like the bait worked
Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! Fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo! This was maybe my answer to Martin, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with
Bran/The Three-Eyed Raven is so underdeveloped that believing that he was evil is a perfectly valid interpretation. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If the final answer is "The Three-Eyed Raven (Crow, if you're a bookfag)" mindfucked people, then GRRM completely failed to expand upon the idea of "the human heart in conflict."
Christopher Barnes
Bran started even before that. He had the letter sent to Jon to tell him the dead march on the wall which created pressure to deal with Cersei quickly but for some reason the least loss of life possible.
He sent the same to Sam which led to him rejecting the Maesters preventing Ebrose from telling Sam his brother and father were dead.
Bran is a bastard man
Xavier Lee
>then GRRM completely failed to expand upon the idea of "the human heart in conflict." Is that not most of the story though? The ending is basically a message saying that humans can't rule peacefully because they will always carry some kind of flaw. Its just an overall bleak message if a king who rules where than the others is someone with information on all the past and some of the future at their disposal.
And its too early to say what the hell the conclusion is to some of the characters in the books even if the show ended.
Landon Howard
>No, a complex story with complex characters makes a good story. >There is only one way to write a good story Learn more about storytelling and stop posting here.
Noah Hill
>And its too early to say what the hell the conclusion is to some of the characters in the books even if the show ended. To be fair if a character was killed off in the show it's probably wise to assume they were irrelevant to the end anyway (since obviously GRRM's just bullshitting with talk of his OC donut steel ending)
Joseph Ross
He's a bastard who can spy on everybody. He lacks empathy and use animals to kill anybody he disagrees with--if not just mind control them outright.
Wargs can't mind control anyone but retards. And he has to be aware of who to spy on and when. Any peasant or pissed off servant can kill him at anytime with little warning because planning isn't detailed or encompassing enough to be noticed by anyone. He can also die of accidents considering he's a cripple who needs someone to wheel him, clean him, carry him, wipe him, etc. And he'll definitely die early with the level of care they have and no weirwood to bond to and that presents it's own problems for him too.
And there's always random epidemics
Lincoln King
I was in denial over the leaks, like a lot of people. That part was the icing on the disappointment cake that was The Long Night.
Oliver Fisher
>the leaks ?
Andrew Stewart
The leak or Arya killing The Night King. It was posted here and on Reddit before the episode came out.
Hunter James
Do corrupted elves make babies then?
Jason Mitchell
What was his plan? His actions don't make sense in the books or the show.
The worse he made them, the less you have to negotiate through a just war. Orcs service the plot of LOTR because they are totally evil and irredeemable, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Leo Morales
They are less interesting, too.
Angel Green
They make some sense in the book (i.e. grooming Aegon to be the perfect king), it's the show which drops the ball - where in a few episodes he goes from "Dany is the best candidate for the throne" to "Dany's a mad bitch, Jon is /ourguy/ now"
Parker Roberts
Taking fAegon into account, how does selling Dany to the Dothraki and gifting her three valuable dragon eggs, make sense.
John Myers
The eggs were just a wedding gift, as for marrying Dany off to Khal Drogo I just assumed it was so Pentos would be on good terms with his khalasar, while simultaneously ending the possibility of a rival Targ claim to the throne (as Viserys would inevitably get himself killed, while Dany's children would just be blonde Dothrakis)
Jack Harris
Didnt kingdoms have councils where they talked about this shit and it wasnt just the king making laws out of thin air?
Jonathan Hill
How does giving away valuable dragon eggs make sense? How does selling a true Targaryen to Dothraki horselords make sense, if the plan is to put the fugazi Aegon on the throne? That seems like a loose end to me.
Logan Edwards
>How does giving away valuable dragon eggs make sense? Because at that point they were just a curiosity, no one knew how to make them hatch. >How does selling a true Targaryen to Dothraki horselords make sense, if the plan is to put the fugazi Aegon on the throne? Yeah, that one I'll admit is more of a stretch, since you'd expect they'd keep her for Aegon. My guess is that GRRM only seriously considered the Aegon stuff when he was writing the second book, by then it was too late. I think that tends to be a problem with "mastermind"/power-behind-the-throne characters like Varys - you end up assuming motivations for actions that are never explicitly, or implicitly, explained otherwise the logic falls apart.
Asher Russell
>Because at that point they were just a curiosity, no one knew how to make them hatch. They can be sold. Viserys, in the show at least, tries to steal them and sell them. It makes no sense for Illyrio to give away those eggs to Daenerys.
Owen Phillips
>It makes no sense for Illyrio to give away those eggs to Daenerys. Why not? They were a wedding present, and presumably a reminder for Drogo of who he was married to. Sure they could be sold, but Mopatis was already wealthy
Daniel Campbell
>he wrote lighthearted stories to help deal with his crippling depression He wrote stories to inspire people about the good of man as he saw it exalted in legends told for thousands of years. A story about catching an evil plot would only serve to meaninglessly excite teenagers and manchildren, which was not something Tolkien considered worthwhile.
Nicholas Sanders
>Why not? Because they were extremely valuable. >They were a wedding present, and presumably a reminder for Drogo of who he was married to. He already married Daenerys by that point. Pointless exercise. >Sure they could be sold, but Mopatis was already wealthy Because if there is one thing rich people don't like, it's more wealth.
Varys and Illyrio make no sense. Daenerys would have never been sold to a Dothraki horselord if there was a fake Aegon in their backpocket the entire time. It is simply counterintuitive. They had two other real Targaryens, whom they could not have possibly accounted for after Dany was sold to Drogo.
Sounds like contrived garbage to me.
Jeremiah Green
Lmao give me a fucking break. There is more beauty and nuance in the first chapter of lotr than in every marvel movie combined you dumb faggot, classic capeshit is for young teens and modern capeshit is for consumerist drones, lotr sits on a fucking mountaintop above all that shit
Jace Gomez
Where are the tits faggot?
Thomas Foster
Thanos in Infinity War was a legitimately great character. Logan and TDK were good, too.
What was his Sneed Coom & Zoom policy (Formerly tax)?
Austin Long
No way that will be his ending. That’s dumb and dumber’s ending.
Liam Sanders
>way that will be his ending. You are delusional. Bronn being Lord Paramount of The Reach and Master of Coin? Hell no. Sam as Grand Maester? Not a chance. Sansa as Queen in The North? Probably not. King Bran? All GRRM. You might as well be arguing against R+L=J at this point.
Joseph Evans
Jesus Christ, Tolkien was such a proto-soiboi.
Isaiah Cooper
Why are you obsessed with the eggs?
Carter Collins
because he was the most based character with true just cause for the throne.
That honestly sounds like an interesting story. I can drop the egg argument, if you want. The rest of Dany's story still makes no sense in the grand scheme of things.
Aiden Lee
well he was a first wave feminist catholic
Samuel Wilson
The story isn't the problem though.
When you put it that way I guess he was just a child of his time.
William Torres
>The story isn't the problem though. Then what is the problem? I would certainly be interested in that premise.
John Howard
His whining about it being depressing and saying it's not worth doing.
Nathaniel Rogers
You're casting pearls before swine, user.
Jacob Hill
Fucking based
Evan Hall
Quick run down on why the books haven't released yet?
Daily reminder that Tolkien fought in a war. Has fat soiboi George RR Martin done that? I don't think so.
Blake Smith
That explains the cringy Eowyn plotline
Ethan Hernandez
That user has a point. I don't know if you have seen the latest Spider-Man movie, but Mysterio makes perfectly valid criticisms about superheroes in it. However, by the end of the movie, he becomes a run-of-the-mill attention whore.
My point is that reconstructions have a time and a place. Tolkien's story seemed interesting, and it is a shame that he abandoned it.
Hunter Lopez
>fights in a war >comes back with mild ptsd and writes escapist fantasy for children Based
Brody Jackson
>reconstructions Deconstructions. Spellcheck fucked me. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
Mason Perry
But I know he has a point. Do you understand what casting pearls before swine means?
Camden Sanchez
>fought in a war >writes in impeccable prose >villains are evil because they are evil >the good guys are morally good and not that grey cringe faggy shit >ends the series >still publishing books after literally dying God, what a Chad. Anyone who prefers that fat retard over Tolkien deserves death.
Tolkien barely fought in the war, he was never involved in combat. It's unlikely he had PTSD, men weren't such delicate snowflakes back then and you don't need mental trauma to write fantasy, he wrote The Hobbit for his kids and the rest spiralled from his academic love of language and European mythology.
Juan Myers
Carriage before the horse? What's your point exactly?
>taxation is theft >yes he had an army >in flood and famine he used food reserves >and fuck orcs I still don’t understand how any of these are difficult questions.
Kevin Gomez
>Tolkien barely fought in the war, he was never involved in combat Fag
Gabriel Turner
>ITS NOT LIKE MY BONECHILLING SHADES OF GRAY THRILLERS
Luis Sanchez
>He STILL hasn’t released TWOW, and is probably never going to finish his franchise
What's the reason?
Jose Kelly
>No, it means he's wasting his time here, just read the abysmal replies to his post. You're basically declaring victory without proving anything. The story Tolkien didn't want to make sounds interesting. The argument for why he didn't make it can't be presuppositional.
Bentley Thomas
Yes, something you got from extensive contact with the enemy or prolonged bombardment. Not "oh no, the CSM yelled at me, I think I had PTSD". Men still broke, like they have throughout history if placed under enough stress, but they were mentally tougher for the most part and Tolkien would have had that resilience and whilst his service was tough, he wasn't bayoneting German stormtroopers or weathering a German offensive during his short service on the front.
There's nothing to suggest he had PTSD from his experiences in the war.
Jaxon Gomez
Dude, shut the fuck up, please.
Landon Gomez
Well, shit, I can't argue against that flawless logic.
Nolan Campbell
You got that right at least
Logan Jenkins
The author himself said it wasn’t interesting enough to write. That is what you brainlets are fail to see. The supposed “realism” (which is more accurately termed “gritty realism,” which is something completely different and not realistic at all) is just not that terribly interesting.
Jonathan Reed
>The author himself said it wasn’t interesting enough to write. Irrelevant. John Lennon hated a lot of his songs. Does that mean that I am supposed to hate them, too? >The supposed “realism” (which is more accurately termed “gritty realism,” which is something completely different and not realistic at all) is just not that terribly interesting. Amazing! You have read hypothetical stories and have determined that they aren't interesting. Teach me your ways, sensei.
Jace Martin
Not him but the author was obviously wrong on that account, considering the success of "gritty" stories. Even among his own works, the best are the grittiest, such as the Silmarillion and the later Children of Húrin.
Asher Jackson
Tolkien longed only for the silver linings behind the dark clouds of this world, missing one of the core teachings of the Christian religion; That it's pain and suffering that shapes our character. Deep inside he was just a sissy bong and Jesus didn't die on the cross for this faggy shit.
Oliver Hill
all the mary worshiping makes catholics like him absolute momma's boys in the end
Nathaniel Wilson
What was Harald Fairhair's Tax Policy? Why does the Saga of the Norwegian kings focus on their efforts to do good, to live and rule in a just and noble way, to fight and die heroically? can we Quibble with actual history yet? What was Alfred the Great's Tax Policy? Why doesn't the Anglo-Saxon chronicle record what happened to the Celts once they were conquered, were they genocided even the little baby celts in their little baby celtcradle? Why is history more Idealistic than this grimdark reeedit trash?
>invents all of 3 languages none of which have more than 100 words which are word for word exchanges of english words and keeping modern english syntax no he is creating a historical fantasy, the fantasy elements in GoT arent the white people of winter, nor the dragons, nor the landscape, its the unrealistic human behavior.
>everyone who lived before us were dirty sexual deviants with yellow teeth and angry dispositions this is unrealistic, nowhere ever in the history of Northern Europe has this been the norm for any aristocracy Tolkien and Wagner have more realistic human behavioral traits. The show appeals to plebbitors who see themselves in the dirty whorish """"characters"""""
Jackson Bailey
It really does.
Jace Gutierrez
pain and suffering make us long for the silver
Blake Turner
We rejoice in our suffering, faggot.
Romans 5:3-5
Ryan Brown
>quotes Bible >not a faggot Pick one and only one.
Jack Lee
The bible rejects faggotry through and through, are you retarded?
Liam Collins
>are you retarded? No, because I don't believe in the Bible.
Isaac Jones
You don't have to believe in it to know it's anti-faggotry.
Julian Phillips
Bravo
Elijah Young
You do have a point here. So much modern media is obsessed with making cynicism and realism the same thing.
Asher King
The success of 'gritty' stories are just unhappy people trying to justify their unhappiness by pretending that reality is all negative. The marketability of it is not a measure of quality.
Andrew Torres
It's the other way around, happy people are the ones who feel attracted to gritty stories, because they show what is absent in their lives from the safety of their homes.
The ones who are miserable look for the panaceas that only happy end fantasy can provide.
