Who was in the wrong here?

No, he cant change minds, since he only can change matter.
But he could have cloned himself and destroy all missiles.

He could only destroy like 70% of the missles iirc so the damage would be done anyways. In the comic at least. I vaguely remeber a line that goes something like 'Not even Manhattan can stop all the missles'

Manhattan was wrong for deciding to give a shit for basically no reason. Holy shit, unlikely things can still happen if you have infinite time to roll the dice! Better go try to help out now. Oh wait, nevermind.

Manhattan
>Have infinite power
>Believe that you're omnipotent
>Believe you can do anything
>Get cucked by a normal human
>Normal human tells you what to do now
>Cry like a beta bitch and do as you're told because "its the only option"
>Non-Beta friend tells you you've been cucked and it's not right
>Non-beta friend tells you they can do something
>spazzed out and killed him because he's a chad
>cry and leave the planet anyways claiming to be some higher power

Definitely Manhattan

>Not even Manhattan can stop all the missles
Right, but Manhatten never said that. If you take into account that Ozymandias, who worked with Manhatten and is one of the smartest men on earth, thought he could kill Manhatten just to be disproven, if it doesnt comes from manhatten such fact is it taken with care.

Rorshach was fucking BASED

>thought he could kill Manhatten just to be disproven

When did he think he could kill Dr. Manhattan?

Unironically depends on whether you subscribe to either a utilitarian or a kantian moral framework.

When he lures him into the tachyon disrupter in the end. He is confident Manhatten is dead.

Why did he have to kill Rorschach in such a grotesque way? He could have just given him an aneurysm or something.

It's literally Rorschach without a question. Not only did he start the movie basically claiming the world isn't worth saving but when a few million ARE ALREADY KILLED so that the world changes for the better, he basically ensures they died for nothing and that the world will go back to being as worthless as it was before. He was disregarding huge practical consequences purely for the sake of some philosophical good. He was a child who shouldn't have known better and so he is evil.

Because he's incapable of emotion

Rorschach is right though, Ozy's peace is fake and already at risk of crumbling. People haven't changed so as soon as the lie is revealed things go back to the way they were.

yeah the movie is exactly like the novel other than the method of killing people in the end
the movie improved on that

if you think that´s "practical good", youre crazy

obviously the dead dude made some wrong decisions to end up that way.

WRONG. Rorschach wants humanity to solve their own problems, "peace" predicated on anything besides human development/achievement is not only bound to fail but is also fraudulent.

He's right about everything, which is why he certainly must support exterminating niggers, spics, kikes, gays, trannies, and most asian in pursuit of a a brighter tomorrow.

>lmao just let the world go on based on a lie
>just let a super intelligent mass murderer continue to go on without justice
Thats a big pill to swallow for most people. Especially someone like Rorschach who is morally obsessive.

Its not childish to want to stand against that. And he stood up against that because he had a death wish and was uncompromising.

Test

Steve Ditko

the tachyons where meant to disrupt his vision of the future. When Manhattan comes back, he already has the remote in his had.
>What is that, some kind of ultimate weapon?
>You could say that
Ozy didn't need to murder him, just delay him. He had already won by disrupting Manhattan's vision of the future.

Maybe V For Vendetta was the alternate reality where Rorschach lived to tell everybody the truth?

>if it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid
Ozy's peace was peace nonetheless and Manhattan confirmed it whereas before the world was doomed to nuclear winter.
>as soon as the lie is revealed
How? The people who knew were all in that room.
>"peace" predicated on anything besides human development/achievement is not only bound to fail but is also fraudulent.
You're just as dumb as he is. You're assuming that is the only path and use appeals to some abstract good regardless of the fact that humanity is DEFINITELY doomed if ozy had not done what he did. Even if you don't think what ozy did was right, it was already done at that point and you're only dooming the world for your autistic adherence to morality. That's literally evil. You're dooming the world cause you'll feel bad if you don't.
>Its not childish to want to stand against that
But it is childish to be uncompromising even though it will objectively not right the wrong that was done. The people are already dead. But fuck it, i'm going to the tell world even if it dooms it cause that's my ninja way!

I want to put on a working Rorschach mask and start murdering people.

>That's literally evil.
its literally anything but
youre probably a psychopath

You tell me.

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is there working Rorschach masks?
that shit would be pretty neat

Please, tell me how it is not evil to, despite an all powerful being who can see into the future explicitly telling you that doing so will doom the world, decide to reveal a secret just because it's personally for you the right thing to do. You don't even have to agree that what ozymandias did was right. It was already done and nothing will bring them back. You're forsaking everyone's life strictly for "muh morality". It's the definition of a supervillain. Keep the secret and drink yourself to death like a man.

DONT SAY IT!

N-

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Unironically interesting Theory

fucking user almost killed me

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Alan Moore.

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There's that one YouTube Video but I'm too lazy to look for the link. The Guy basically put heat reactive paint on like three layers of white wool Socks and the pattern changed every time he breathed in. Probably pretty unhealthy but looked cool.

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He thought he couldnt see into the future because of tachyons released by nuclear bombs, when it was in fact tachyons from ozzys trap, so forget that shit. We dont know what would have happened, and his peaceful future was a lie that wouldnt last (memories are short, wed be back to arguing with russia in no time), so really people let ozzy get away with murdering millions just for it to maybe happen anyway. And why couldnt manhattan see into the future after the tachyon trap? Did he even try? No, because alan is a liberal fuck with a gigantic raging bias boner. Tell me with a straight face that rorshach would really have cried and wanted to die because he agreed with ozzy.

Who will be proven right at least in the new unoficial Lindelof sequel, where I bet humanity has learned nothing and there is no world peace.

>You're forsaking everyone's life
And you're taking their free will away from them by forcing them to live a lie. They're slaves to your lie.

Imagine being omniscient but being persuaded a creationist argument about retroactive probability.

>Ozy's peace is fake
this
also, when people start to doubt if Manhattan is going to attack again he should had needed to kill more people.

youtube.com/watch?v=U4127PwP1aQ

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No media, except maybe Stark Trek, has succefully shown a world peace scenario so far.

Let's see what crap excuse Lindelof shows for the state of his world.

>we don't trade lives

I too came to this conclusion in my third reading of the comics.

It made no sense. Why would you spare the lives of this group of people, but not of this other group of people... (Mr. Pink)
It's not the perfect story anymore,

Manhatten saying that nothing ever ends to Ozy is the confirmation that the peace is only temporary and therefore serves as a message to the reader as the comendation of his plans. Ozy's lie is only temporary, and killing millions of people wasnt worth it.

youtube.com/watch?v=gkzi56LwXh8

Everyone for playing out a childhood superhero fantasy instead of actually doing some good in the world.

He can literally change every single female on earth into futas

Only good posts itt.

Why didn't Dr. Manhattan just rewire the neurons in Rorschach's brain to make him come to an understanding that would allow him to keep Ozymandias' secret without experiencing cognitive dissonance from his black-and-white worldview?

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>they dont know

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that's awesome!

I just threw up.
Glad I stopped reading comics.

>it's just neurons bro

>so forget that shit
What do you mean forget that shit? All he claimed to know was that his vision of the future was being obstructed and he offered nuclear bombs as a possibility since it had to be something massive. What failed him there was deduction, not his future vision so there's no reason to doubt his words regarding a doomed world.
>his peaceful future was a lie that wouldnt last
I don't know how you can claim we don't know what would happen in the very same sentence that you claim peace wouldn't last. Here's what we do know for sure:
1.The people are already dead and there's no changing that
2. Manhattan says that if they expose ozy the world is certainly doomed.
So even granting you that the peace might be temporary, you still only have two options:
1. don't tell anyone and hope the peace isn't temporary (and even if it's temporary, you delayed destruction long enough that Manhattan can't see the immediate threat)
2. Tell the world world and bring about CERTAIN, immediate destruction
Do I really have to show the calculus of a possible peace or at least not immediate destruction being better than immediate destruction? Are you really going to tell me that the morality of telling people the lie changes the scale at all in the other way?
>for it to maybe happen anyway
maybe is a pretty important word, as opposed to certainly if he didn't. You don't even have to let ozy get away with it. Murder him for all I care, but there's 0 reason to tell the world why.
>Did he even try? No
He did. Manhattan was about to kill ozy until he explained it to him. Then he looked into the future and said he was right.
You're speaking in vague poetic terms about how it may be an attack to their free will i.e. consumerism is slavery. Sorry if you don't like it, but it pales in comparison to the real thing, that being actually taking away every single person's free will because they're all dead.
Again, the lives were already gone

>who’s Steve Jobs
Top Jej

fuck off red scum

Then he wouldn't be Rorschach. Why not re-wire everyone's brain to be free love hippies?

I mean it literally is. But the doc also doesn't understand basic probability so meh

it actually makes sense and he gets btfo by ozymandias in the comic. He's the son of the thearapist who was trying to help rorshach. He took up the mantle thinking his father was a friend only to be BTFO by ozy later saying rorshach made his father crazy and tore his family apart, making his mom and dad hate each other and die alone when the fake invasion happened.

he then turns to manhatten asking if this is all true and he just says "yes"

it's pretty fucking based

should have been a black mask with white dots

>You're speaking in vague poetic terms about how it may be an attack to their free will i.e. consumerism is slavery.
No I fucking am not retard, I'm not being vague in the slightest. It's not a hard concept. Human civilisation has to have the right to self-determine. By perpetrating this huge lie you're taking away that right because the future of humanity is dictated by it, you're determining how generations of humans will think and shape their society because of what you think will happen.

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>lol but its okay since theyre alive at all!
>I know they wouldnt be because reasons if we had it your way
>basically just give up and let psychos have their way with you

what is with these absolute cuck authors

I was waiting for doomsday clock to end to get the tbp and get back into dc comics but it has been 2 years now. Is it any good? Is it worth it? I was really hoping the story would bring back pre flashpoint.

it's honestly really fucking good. Never noticed that manhatten's symbol was also midnight on a clock. It battles the despair theme in watchmen with the hope from superman. It's pretty fucking based. Latest issue revealed the grand plan.

Mahatma Ghandi.

Should i just wait for the tbp? I really want to get it, but i have already waited this long. Is priest still doing deathstroke btw?

>FUTAS ARE GA-

it seems to be leading to another crisis desu. It revolves heavily with a metaverse, being superman himself. He is basically the center of the universe for all timelines across the dcu

which is kinda meta on it's own

it has a lot of thought in it just like the original watchmen and it's honestly a worthy sequel. I'm sure moore appreciates it more than the shit hbo special

A mind is comprised of matter, otherwise it wouldn't exist, everything within our perspective exists physically including our thoughts

part 1 comes out next month and it covers 1-6. and i am not too sure. Mostly a superman fan myself

in all honesty it's worth reading write now. You won't be disappointed.

Dr. Manhattan. More like Dr. Microdick.

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>I'm not being vague in the slightest
> Human civilisation has to have the right to self-determine
you're appealing to philosophical points about some vague sense of morality. "It's not a hard concept" is not an argument. Not only are you claiming some right out of nowhere, you're placing it at such a high value that you are literally saying it's so important that it's better for humans to nuke themselves into extinction that for this right to be violated. Believe that if you want, I guess. Can't stop you from being a psycho.
>you're determining how generations of humans will think and shape their society
You're doing it either way. If you tell them, you're deciding they shouldn't think at all cause they'll all be dead. Again, for what? What principle is worth the cumulative human existence.
>what you think will happen.
It's not what I think. It's known. It's the entire fucking point of having a godlike being that can see into the future. Telling the world leading to the destruction of humanity isn't a point of debate, it's an axiom. If it wasn't, we'd be having a different argument. Please try to understand the argument before jumping into a position.
>because reasons
Yes, those reasons being a god-like being with future vision saying so. Funny how stupid you look if you don't omit that part.
>let psychos have their way with you
>let
Ozy already won. Those people are dead. The only thing you can change now is if he gets the result he predicted. You really think it's worth destroying humanity just so ozy doesn't get the result he intended? Spite is worth that much? You people are literal children.

The Soviet union ended up collapsing so I guess roach

Reggie is too pure for this world

Manhattan because he didn't deep dive Rorschach's brain to find out about the journal or anything like it and clean up the pieces

Minds are matter you witless mong

No it didn’t retard

>writing a sequel to another author's work

why is this allowed?

Doctor meme invincible, unironically.

its fucking trash mate. issue 10 was the peak. issue 11 was pure fucking trash. i'm not even excited for issue 12, i know it'll be pure trash

also Doomsday Clock isn't canon. everyone is ignoring it

Who would venture to know the limits of Dr. Manhattan’s power?

Dr. Manhattan.

Rorschach had already set the stage for the truth coming out with his diary.

Manhattan is not omnipotent, he's a man with a lot of powers and a god complex.

Rorschach for being an autistic incel

I thought Manhattan could only exist everywhere/time at once and see everything that has or will happen, but he can't do anything to change it.

I thought we was just 4d basically. He could see everything that has/would happen to himself, but not everywhere

>but he can't do anything to change it.
he can, he just doesn't like to.

No-one was in the wrong here. Manhattan killed his friend, to stop him suffering. He literally begged him to do it.

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Both and neither

the things that make up our thoughts are electrons moving from one place in the brain to another and if i remember correctly matter in this story is atoms or larger which electrons are not

based

>Who was in the wrong here?
US president who used Dr. Manhattan as a weapon, forcing Soviets to build all the nukes.

No one, Manhattan makes it clear the the universe they live in is deterministic with no such thing as free will, morality has no meaning in such universe so none of them was in the wrong

In the comics it's made clearer, all of time exist simultaneously , he can see his entire timeline but cannot change it since the events in the future already exists
>It's too late. Always has been, always will be...too late.

How come a 2009 capeshit has superior visuals to anything released in recent years?

How is wanting to do what is objectively the moral decision “evil”?

Isn't it implied that people will find out the truth at the end of the comic book, rendering such an argument pointless?

it's implied that some alex jones-tier rag will publish it. whether people believe it, that's left more open to interpretation. if you ask me, it's pretty obvious that it'll get ignored.

I thought that it was connected to how Manhattan said nothing really ends, meaning Ozy's plan will soon backfire immensely.

Not even. Manhattan has godly powers. He could have rewired his brain so he didn't remember the big reveal.

Neural pathways are made up of matter. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Minds are an emergent property of the physical brain, of course you can change minds when you have total dominion over matter.

*yey

You'd have to be a totally emasculated brainlet to side with Ozy. Ozy was a homicidal narcissistic homosexual. Manhattan was an omnipotent impotent autist who got cucked by a nerd dressed as a bird.

The two chads Comedian and Rorschach recognized that humanity in its default form was infinitely superior to the blubbering retard race those technocratic trannies wanted to make in their image.

maybe watch anything besides capeshit, you dumb cunt

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Thoughts are electrical impulses fueled by chemical reactions. Electrons don't move from one place to another, their excitation can be utilized to transfer electricity but they're bound to the electron cloud of the atom.

Stop trying to force your own metaphysical claims into a film which doesn't attempt to address the topic (IE. mind/body dualism) in the slightest. Emergence theory might be the most logical explanation in our world, but that doesn't mean a fictional world has to abide by that same logic. Your incessant need for scientific accuracy would dissolve any remaining tension in the film for good, don't be such autists

How much do you guys want to bet that Allen more comes back and writes a sequel to this and add SJW bullshit into it???

He's still alive and I bet he's thinking about it.

R E N T F R E E
E
N
T

F
R
E
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That's what happened irl tho after the native russians ousted the jews from power.

Rorschach was a brainlet

Based and humanitypilled

Cause when your main priority is to make a movie every year, visuals come 2 in the studios priority list. Also super hero movies in 2009 weren't as big and recognizable as they are now so it helped to have a visual style to entice viewers. Also Also Zach snyder is a good director stylistically just not story wise.

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the bloody goop on the floor

>dr.manhattan is circumcised

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Doomsday Clock proved Rorschach was right and Manhattan was just a baby nihilist that can control anything, but doesn’t feel in control of his own life.

how does one having read Watchmen but not really acquainted with DC that much, particularly the Crisis storylines (except for Identity Crisis), get into Doomsday Clock? from what I understand it ties in heavily into the recent multiple DC reboots, like Flashpoints, new52, that Brainiac one and Rebirth. I really liked Manhattan from Watchmen, he was by far the best element of the story and I really want to try reading this, but the amount of "prerequisites" is a bit daunting. what should I do?

Rorschach thinks people aren't worth saving, not the world and not because he wants people dead but because they don't seem to value what they have.
What Ozy did is exactly the think Rorschach hates about people, they shouldn't be manipulated to live in peace - it should come from wanting to do right regardless.

there are screencaps in this very thread of comic panels from the sequel series where rorshach's successor is black

>this fanfiction proved that character right
come on now

Manhattan for being a borderline omnipotent/omniscient god like being but getting outplayed by ozymandias and letting millions of people die because he threw a little bitchfit

one time when i was a college kid and had plenty of free time and a toaster that couldn't run anything except images and comic book files, i tried to bring myself up to speed with dc lore from the 70s and 80s until then (about 2008 iirc), particularly the crisis stories.
it was honestly impossible. not only are there thousands of pages of this stuff spread across a dozen different series, but 80% of it is also terribly written AND the art is ugly to boot. i gave up a couple of weeks after i started.

my advice to you is to just jump straight in to the series you want to read and hope that context allows you to understand everything that's going on . if it doesn't, cut your losses and quit. if you HAVE to read all the ancillary stories, it's a lost cause. you'll never be able to get through them, chances are they're terrible.

dr blue penis. it's wrong to take a human life

Companies (aka big mouse) realised that people will still throw bucks at them for sub-par quality goods. I don't blame the companies, it's everyone's fault for being retarded.

ur mom

he literally says at one point that he's not omnipotent

so mad
so wrong
tragic

>i cna change almost anything..... but i can't change the size of my dick

:DD :D :D DD XDDX D DD XD

yes it did, space squid was cringey scifi shit