Why the fuck did they jump to the "Avengers" type of movie without introducing all of the characters first?

To be fair:

The Justice League characters hold their own big place in pop culture to a point where everyone knows them to varying degrees. Batman and Superman are the most popular superheroes of all time, Wonder Woman is the face of female super heroes, Flash is fairly well known, Aquaman is meme status, Cyborg is somewhat known. This is because DC has had a very strong cultural presence for decades with their cartoon shows like the original Superfriends then the Justice League cartoons of the 00's and etc, not to mention being parodied constantly on things like the Simpsons and Family Guy and other places.

It is possible to have launched a DC cinematic universe STARTING with Justice League with NO other movies preceding it, if it had been done well, which it wasn't. Instead, they wanted to follow the Marvell format.

The difference is that back in 2008 literally no fucking one knew who Iron Man, Thor, Black Widow, Nick Fury, and Hawkeye were, while The Hulk was well known and Captain America was still a good cultural figure. Marvel HAD TO have lead-in movies to set up the characters. Their big Superman and Batman equivalent properties had all been bought out by Fox and Sony a decade prior, so all they had to work with was the B team, which forced them to do a good job.

Warner Brothers is instead just banking on brand recognition and board room charts and trends to try to make a hit.

>hurrrr we r studio execs we need to compete with marvel make DCvengers NAOO hurrrr >:[[[[X
I hate the modern film industry

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So it was unique but LOTR also did it? Also LOTR isn't an ensemble team up movie and was never supposed to be

Snyder is a trash director and you're a pretentious teenager.

I think most people know who these characters are, the only outliner is Cyborg and he still has a decent amount of normie awareness. The movies just sucked. That and IMO the Justice League should always have at least 7 members so they kind of fucked that up.

Wanted to cash in while doing a 5th of the work Marvel did, in establishing its characters. The DCU was doomed from the start, because they rushed everything.

The Lord of the Rings was three movies. The first movie took time to introduce us to the characters before setting off on the adventure.

>Cyborg
>Aquaman
>Flash
>iconic

Nope.

Fuck it, I’m gonna say it: I like this movie and I think it’s got a lot of things going for it
>decent soundtrack, way better than any other DCEU movie
>Great fighting and action scenes
>Superman finally becoming himself and not being mopey and depressed all the time
>Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Flash are great
Why do people hate it so much?

>be Batman
>hate Superman because he has actual superpowers and is basically free to do what he wants since noone could stop him
>finally find out he has a mom
>it's fine now
>2 months later
>Batman is now surrounded by people with special powers who are free to do anything they wish and noone could stop them
Batman simply accepting all of them was a little weird, but I guess he couldn't do the whole MARTHA thing with all of them. Plus I am pretty sure not all Justice League members have mothers named Martha.

and we were supposed to get that.
The end of the movie we were supposed to have a few laterns appear at bruce's bedside I believe

So what has even happened with the DCCU at this point?

>JL tanked
>Aquaman is forgotten
>Shazam was cool but only tangentially related to the DCCU
>Batman is getting completely rebooted with new actors
>Joker is or is not even a art of it anymore
>Cavill has essentially left, so Superman is gone without explanation as well or hs to be rebooted
>Wonder Woman: 1984 is still planned to release despite the universe being pretty much dead and undergoing a reboot already at this point
>no one knows what the fuck is going on

Like god damn how do you fuck up this hard when you're literally got some of the most famous properties in the world in your pocket?

unlike batman or superman?

I still don't get why they fucked up that shot of Batman

Because DC is retarded.

lol what?
like i know the movie was supposed to be that, but the current cut is not that at all.
I don't remember any of the scenes because reshoots were just a different filter, added quips and actors look forced and not as relaxed as previous footage.
Battfleck having to do reshoots and is out of shape, looking puffy in the movie.
Making his action sequences look odd, and the continuity check in some of the actioin scenes doesn't add up well. Such as the grapple kick in the tunnel.
Superman was going to be himself in this film regardless, we were getting a build up to that through the arc of these movies.
They were great but their reshot dialogue was forced and cringe inducing, brunch, good looking jew.
A soundtrack is important, can easily bring a movie up or drag it down 10-20%
I don't remember a song or can relate it to any scene in this movie's current score.
It didn't even cut 2 hours
The main problem is it became JOSStice league, wb meddling, lousy soundtrack.
We need the Snyder cut of the film for it to achieve what you said about the movie.

Whedon was an inside job meant to sabotage JL.

JL actually did fine money wise, not what it wanted but it's still there.
Aquaman is gettiing a sequel along with a horror spin off based off the Trench.
Batman reboot was already gonna happen, just they switched up the story of how far back, as of now.
They've established that Joker is it's own story, it was never a part of it. You dense?
Cavil hasn't left, he's not an idiot leaving the leading role of a franchise. Him not appearing in the Shazam cameo was "scheduling cause of the witcher series" but it would eat up one of his movies to appear in on his contract, he has 2 left, essentially with snyder's original plan, he would've had his contract renewed after justice league pt2, for man of steel 2 and so on or whatever. He's taken the best professional route, but I don't think you'd get it.
Yes it's still planning to release and takes place in 1984 at best we get an explanation as to why wonder woman is not appearing in mankind's affairs since WWI
Director Patty Jenkins has complained about them delaying the release of the movie till June next year, as she wanted it to come out like October or November this year. So this movie might not even affect the current timeline, Aquaman didn't, and Shazam didn't either.
Mcu just finished it's Infinity saga and excitement for the next phase is dwindling, and now Disney is being investigated by the SEC.
I think WB was just playing the long game here, or at least can now play it off that way.
Notice how these movie releases were also stretched apart as well.
I mean people are dumb but this corporate and it can be dumb as well but they have money on their mind.

who actually believes that? I love goofy conspiracy stuff.

Yep, this - and that's why when Flash movie finally comes out it will probably do well regardless because everyone like "guy who go fast durrr"

when alan horn moved from wb to disney, he left a stay-behind network meant to sabotage snyder at every turn. disney did not want snyder's full vision to be explored but they especially feared a cyborg solo movie

Why is this brainlet criticism still parroted? Examples of ensemble films that worked perfectly fine with zero build-up:
>X-Men
>Watchmen
>Guardians of the Galaxy
>Kick-Ass
>Mystery Men
>Ocean’s 11
>Lord of the Rings
>Seven Samurai
>The A-Team
>Literally every single ensemble piece except for Avengers, and even Avengers didn’t develop e.g. Hawkeye, Black Panther, or Spider-Man at all before throwing them into already crowded flicks
This is one of the very dumbest talking points and it’s shocking how many simpletons reveal their staggeringly stunted basic reasoning by parroting such a facile take

this movie is the best superfriends movie ever made
they even show diana and bruce buying the hall of justice in the end of the fucking movie

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Look at his scan these cope levels are off the charts!

who the fuck are the two kids?

>a 5th of the work
This is just silly. The MCU had 5 movies before the Avengers team-up; the DCEU had 4. You’re probably forgetting that the early Marvel flicks were all bad (except for Iron Man) and none even cracked $450M (except for Iron Man I/II) in an era where Spidey and Batman solo flicks were making easily twice that
People really liked the novelty of seeing the heroes cross-over, but it’s dumb / cargo-cultish to presume that following that formula would lead to success once the novelty wore off. Note that the Deadpool movies are the highest grossing X-Men movies despite having nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of the franchise. The Avengers just made bank because it was hyped as a cultural event and people wanted to see the payoff of the other films. Aquaman made nearly as much just by having hot leads. The reason JL and Solo bombed is bc it was obvious that the product had been compromised by a studio who had no faith in it. Pretending that every franchise has to follow the Feige path to be successful is maybe the most r/eddit take I’ve ever heard

>zoomers don't know about Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog

>when alan horn moved from wb to disney
This is key

Because it was made by the same guy who wanted to make Batman v Superman as well as the death of superman and the beginning of the justice league, not just in one movie, but in Superman's second appearance
He also wanted to do Darkseid as Justice league two

Disney has rotted your brain. Justice League is a fantastically mediocre movie, and not only did Whedon quip it up, he absolutely butchered the visuals, turning it into a claustrophobic eyesore, but thinking it's bad because every character didn't have a standalone movie first is fucking retarded. That's like saying LotR would have been better if we got a pointless origin movie for all the Fellowship. Yes, it would undoubtedly acquaint absolutely uncultured plebs with the characters and the world, but why would fans care about that? They already know the characters and the setting. All they would care about is how well it was being translated.

I'd actually believe that.

I found the DC fan. I bet you're just mad that Marvel makes better mediocre movies, atleast their stuff is watchable. DC CGI is just memable

Thank you, I never get a chance to post these any more

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>DC CGI is just memable

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more like
Justice 1.11: you can (NOT) save the world alone

flash is iconic

>Batman kills people... with guns.

Yeah, hard pass from me DC.

To be fair, the standalone movies before the team-up are not only to make people know about the character, but to create hype among them. The team-up movies were a success because you had this bunch of people who liked this one character and this other bunch of people who liked this other character watch the same movie, even if it got characters they didn't give a shit about.

That's what WB didn't get and that's why they failed misserably.

Original bullshit.
I bet you like the prequels.

He didn't hate Superman for having power. That's just the excuse he was using to sell himself on his own vendetta, to justify actions he knew deep-down were wrong. You will try to say that the movie didn't establish that, and I will show you pic-related. I will then ask you if you've ever once in your existence heard someone use the criticism "Show, don't tell," or used it yourself, because that's what the dream sequence containing pic-related is doing - showing Bruce's own subconscious telling him that he's turning his back on the truth and allowing his obsession to consume him.

youtu.be/czzQ3-_6SMs

money

They wanted to catch up to MCU as soon as possible. It was supposed to be MoS2, Batman, BvS, Wonder Womam and then JL but WB execs jumped the gun

You're an idiot. Not only does he never shoot anyone, what he's shown doing is there to illustrate that he's out of bounds, not acting like himself, not being heroic.

It was a bad MCU movie. The Russian family felt so Whedon and felt so tacked on just to get some stakes. It was so bad

1.) Like other anons said, individually, the Justice League members are all cultural icons, so WB was banking on that instead of fleshing them out in their own single movies
2.) WB trying to play catch-up with the MCU. It's the main reason why the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man series failed, they tried to jump the gun in the 2nd movie and kick-start a "cinematic universe" instead of just making a solid sequel that wasn't filler/stepping stone for the next big event.

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All of the retarded slapstick Flash shit was Whedon, he murdered that character

There's been flash merch around for years.
His logo is on heaps of stuff.
Isn't he on the t-shirt of the bang theory guy? That was a decade ago

MOS introduced Superman and we already had 3 Nolan Batman movies to get to know the character a few years prior to BVS so there was no need to rehash that story again. Plus Wonder Woman got her solo before JL so the main team was pretty much set except for Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman.

JL was meant to be Cyborg's origin story which linked to an Apokalyptan invasion of Earth before Whedon chopped it out. That's why it's so bland. The literal heart of the movie was gone.

I will never stop fighting for the Snyder Cut.

It was really a series of bad decisions by greedy WB executives who wanted their bonuses before the AT&T merger. Thank goodness most of them are gone/fired now.

Flash and Aquaman are reasonably iconic. Not compared to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman but most people know what Flash and Aquaman are all about. Although this version of Aquaman is different from what people are familiar with.

Cyborg is definitely unknown though. I only knew about him because of Teen Titans.

As a longtime DCfag this movie was painful to watch. All of the squandered potential dashed on the stones for a quick buck. Though the casting choices were the real nail in the coffin.
Could they have chosen a more generic, less interesting villain than Steppenwolf?

Fuck yes, my brother. Never give up. What makes me so mad is that I can absolutely see what he was going for. I can see it clearly. I can lay out a rough sequence of events for pretty much the whole thing:

>Kryptonians come to Earth 20KYA
>Survivor(Supergirl) lives among us
>Scoutship collects data on humans/earth and the "secret history" of metahumans and the New Gods
>modern day, the ship is discovered
>Zod arrives
>the military intercepts and eventually deciphers portions of the data stream between the Scoutship and the Black Zero in conjunction with LexCorp
>Project A.R.G.U.S. begins, with the goal of locating emergent or likely potential metahumans using LexCorp as a means of data collection
>Lex named the project himself, a veiled reference to how he thinks of himself - the many-eyed (corporate) giant
>Lex is gaming literally everyone on a quest for actual godhood, arrogantly thinking he can even game Darkseid when the time comes

Also, I'm still hoping that Brainiac emerges from the damaged Kryptonian AI on the Scoutship.

A sexy, female Brainiac.

Because its 4 hour movie with only few noteworthy characters.

>those bulges

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The pilot for the old cartoon was a perfect way to launch as an ensemble. All they had to do was copy that for easy win. Unfortunately there was a tug of war going on internally between the producers and the Snyder loyalists.

Faggot

Retard

So these are the types of questions that float through the heads of a generation raised on cinematic universes

Tbh they really didn't need to do the Marval thing of introducing each character with their own movie. Batman v Superman was unnecessary especially how they crammed in Wonder Woman at the last minute. Everyone knows who these characters are so they should've just made a Justice League movie right off the bat. No use trying to compete with someone else's business model when they were planning it for so many years in advance.

You retards always use the same fucking argument and the same fucking movie (LOtR), because, of course, that's the only movie you know and the highest product your brain can process as art as you think of it, because you're kids with half a brain spouting an opinion on something beyond your expertise. Of course, the fact that the point of these ENSEMBLE movies is the ensemble part goes beyond your comprehension only reinforces how clueless you are in all this. The fucking point, I repeat, of these movies is the assemble (in the case of Avengers, more than a reference) of different movies--treating films as episodes of a large tv season. That was the originality of it (and yes, Universal did it before; Godzilla did it before, etc... there's always a before) and that was what attracted DC to do it, and they did it spectacularly bad.

>The original plan by Snyder was have a solo movie for each of them before jumping into JL
wrong
Snyder's plan was a 5 arc movie with Man of Steel, BvS, JL1 JL2 and JL3 being the core
basically JL2 was about the League going to Apokolips and getting their shit pushed in by Darkseid, then in JL3 Darkseid was supposed to come to Earth and kill most of the league using evil Superman, then Batman was gonna send Flash back in time to prevent everything

Reminder that a Marvel C-lister beat the Justice League at the box office

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We use it because it's a familiar, accessible example. Want me to do it with Star Wars? How about The Expendables? How about the Magnificent Seven? How about Saving Private Ryan? How am I supposed to care about Miller's death without first having watched a trilogy detailing the minutiae of his pre-war life? How am I supposed to understand he's suffering from PTSD without having seen the events that led to him having it? How am I supposed to care about Scaparzo's death without having first watched the silly slice-of-life movie about him and his sister?

In short, suck my dick, you smug, know-nothing fuck.

Justice League was trash because Snyder bailed mid production and they brought in Joss Whedon.

I wasn't a big fan of Batman v Superman.. I wasn't a big fan of Man of Steel.. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested in seeing Snyder finish his original vision of Justice League Part 1 and Part 2.

Joss fucked the entire franchise.. And whoever thought bringing him in was a good idea, should be fired.

For the same reason people looked at Guardians and started cramming lots of songs in their movies and omg they flopped anyway.

Yes, we get that. The question is why? What retard thought that was a good idea?

You don't need 8 fucking films of build up for ensemble movies
Fucking retarded zoomers

I once watched a movie about the making of batman forever (i think). And you really got a look into how fucking dumb these producers are. All i remember is that one guy wanted a giant spider so bad in batman but when he didn't get it, he ended up shoving it into Wild Wild West

>what Snyder was doing was unique

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>sure snyder fucked up twice about as bad as possible, but it when he gave up and someone else had to pick of his garbage and polish it, it's that guy's fault.

You're fucking brainwashed by Disney's garbage. I mean that sincerely. MoS and BvS are both better comics films than anything Disney has ever made, mainly because they fully embrace the source material instead of half-assing it and shying away from the weird shit that would alienate a more general audience. If you say that's a dumb, counterproductive move, all that does is reval you're a corporate cocksucker more interested in money than a good story.

Based Aquachad pushing to get the Snyder cut released

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I agree but it's really important that you specify that the director's cut of BvS is amazing - it's fairly non-sensical when the ENTIRE FUCKING PLOT WAS RIPPED OUT OF IT FOR TIME.