It’s a Yea Forums doesn’t understand that the movie is critiquing toxic masculinity and fascism episode

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If we didn't blame that meteor on the bugs, the bug menace would have gotten stronger. The only good bug is a dead bug.

What is non toxic masculinity ?

That’s a good one, also American psycho

What do the bugs represent in starship troopers? mexicans`?

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That armor is kino

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Yes, a gay dude who is a feminist. Loads of men miss the point.

>but the book is openly pro-fasist
This is true, but the movie goes in the opposite direction and satirizes fascism

And the point is?

Even if Fight Club was ultimately critiquing toxic masculinity are the messages about consumerism and meaninglessness incorrect?

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MANNING UP and rearing your wife's kids.

>Lost Galaxy

Kino.

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The movie is viciously mocking right wingers

>haha they say war good but they really mean war bad
>yeah you need a high IQ to understand this deep movie
Starship Troopers is the worst

>Its a leftist doesn't understand that their over the top parodies of right wing ideologies are more appealing to normal people than left wing thought episode

Have sex

>you need a high IQ to understand this deep movie
Only retards say that. You need to have an IQ of at least 70 to understand that Starship Troopers is a satire

>when you're so bad at mocking someone they dont realize you're doing it even after you explicitly tell them you're doing it

Embarrassing desu

Kek I was waiting for this.

Not at all, he was just a militarist. He also believed in racial equality and other absurd concepts.

>toxic masculinity

No such thing.

Failed pretty badly because they only show positive consequences from fascism. I remember wanting it when I was a kid watching Starship Troopers

>critiquing toxic masculinity
>by making it look based as fuck
they did a bad job

Does toxic feminity exist?

death of the author, post modern analysis doesn't become irrelevant when you agree with the author's politics

Verhoeven was the worst thing about that movie. It's a bummer because he's made some absolute kino.

Yes, but it's considered the patriarchy's fault

guess who's back

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>my gf's sperm

wait...

... w-what...

I know this is real but this looks so much like satire

bigots

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Not really the same thing, but they live was supposed to be a critique of yuppies and ended up looking more like anti-jew propaganda

>but the book is openly pro-fasist.
>presents a democratic meritocratic society

Verhoeven is kind of a brainlet which explains why he failed to make a proper satire. Or maybe he just made a good movie and that's just bullshit he put out for the media pressure.
youtube.com/watch?v=oUsPhcpA58g

How did American Psycho do that? I get that it criticized 80s yuppie/stock culture but the movie didn't portray anything as cool. It portrayed Wall Street as a cold, vapid place where nobody knows your name.

I understand what they're saying, but what? Am I supposed to make every rewatch of these a jackoff session where I go "Yes, I don't enjoy this movie because I understand what it's REALLY saying."

Like I love Saving Private Ryan, but I also understand it's pro-war propaganda of the worst kind

once a month

Its a movie about giant sentient bugs waging a bug war on a futuristic earth. Does it really like...even need to mean something? Just turn your brain off and enjoy it.

It portrays Patrick Bateman as cool and funny. There’s a reason it’s so memeable

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fight club was about the natural order of man. People escaped into the fight club only to become a soldier for some dumb cause. It was about deflection. The world's problems aren't from credit card companies or whatever they were blowing up, the problems come from people not thinking on their own. The MC (forgot his name) would go to the therapy sessions to see how much people depended on each other, how simple things would ruin someone's live instead of them just taking it in stride. They would fight because there was no consequence, no bad blood, they were all equal in that basement. The problems came up when there was an innate hierarchy they WANTED to abide to. They follow the person instead of the ideas they promote. false idols and all that.

I don't know about that, it's one of my favorite movies but I didn't see him as funny or necessarily cool. I saw him as they tried to portray him as an anti-hero but the ending leaves it up to interpretation.

Can someone explain to me what toxic masculinity is?

Because from what I hear it's just confidence, and if you're going after someone's confidence I'm afraid you need to look in the mirror first and ask yourself why you're so insecure and what you can do to improve yourself. Not go after people who are more comfortable in their environment than you are.

Anyone who thinks bugs can't launch meteors across the galaxy needs to watch Roughnecks

Idealising and emulating stereotypical male traits at the expense of women who are treated as "the weaker sex" etc.

>drug addicts lol, how cool and free they live
>literally every other scene has one or two characters spinning into psychosis/paranoia

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Women are the weaker sex you dumb fuck

when women get intimidated by men but not in the way that makes them wet

I like movies/shows criticising power structures and touching on sensitive subjects.
But it has to be done tastefully and give a platform for debate.
These days we are told what is morally acceptable and what isn't without any reasoning or perspective.

woah

Yeah, and? Literally everybody knows this, but non-brainlets don't just sit there and watch a movie to be dictated to, you can identify with criticised or villainised aspects of a film in defiance of the intent of the message.

>Can someone explain to me what toxic masculinity is?
Pretty much "anything I don't like" about such x or y person who is a man. Problem with it is its somewhat arbitrary and what x woman finds to be "toxic", y woman might find attractive or positive or some bullshit.

Starship Troopers has very low-key satire, all I remember is nazi uniforms and kids stomping on bugs

It's a buzzword to attack men who want to be manly and want to do masculine things and cringe at the thought of appearing girly in any way. It used to be mostly about the idea that a man can't cry, order a fruity drink at the bar or allow a woman to beat him at anything. Now it just means "man did something manly that I don't like"

This post is toxic masculinity

My thoughts exactly, stealing that for future shitposting.

Basically having stereotypical macho traits. Muscular, protecting, and pride.

they used it in that awful live action gundam too.

no, the points remain valid. this is what modern revisionists forget and why they look like idiots when they say “duh teenage boys are idiots for idolizing tyler durden”

Which male stereotypes are actively demeaning women that they can't counteract by ignoring?

More like it's a director doesn't understand his audience episode lmao

Men being the breadwinners, """chivalry""", women being expected to perform all of the emotional labor in a relationship, etc

feminism

manning up and taking Chad's dick

Expressing your emotions, challenging misogynistic behaviour, talking rather than committing suicide even if it means your partner leaves you because she doesn't want to be co-dependent, to spare her the trauma of your death, etc.

It doesn't mean anything beyond what you perceive those two words together to man. Many modern movements try to hijack your language to make words mean something contrary to what they actually mean (see: Social Justice Warrior, Virtue Signaling, Gender). Don't let someone else dictate what your language means.

so being a massive faggot?

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>Try to make a movie about muh ebul nazis
>Make their opponents inhuman bug killing machines, making nazis look good in comparison
>Also make a black woman the competent general that turns the tide of the war, just because
Verhoeven failed, he tried and he failed miserably.

very toxic post

>talking rather than committing suicide even if it means your partner leaves you because she doesn't want to be co-dependent, to spare her the trauma of your death

Come again?

That and his own autism on how to balance action and humor in a big American action movie really bit him in the ass on Starship Troopers desu. I understand why he stuck with that formula, because first of all it was his own, and also because there are a shit ton of moving parts and everything must be planned in a production so large. But if he just would have approached it with less irony it would have improved the film. It didn't need to satirize the source material, and I don't even care for the source material desu.

Dear g-d feminists are disgusting creatures.

Toxic masculinity = bottling stuff up and committing suicide, because it negatively affects your partner who has to deal with your death

Antidote masculinity = being open and honest, alienating your partner so they leave you, then living with your misery because at least you didn't inconvenience your ex

>they only showed positive consequences
That was the entire point of the movie. It was all propaganda that distorted reality to indoctrinate people.

If you didn't watch Starship Trooper 3, you have no right to comment on propaganda

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Starship troopers isn't really a critique of anything.
It's just supposed to point out that propaganda is effective even when you are told it is propaganda

Well they did a poor job conveying the idea, that's the point

>Men being the breadwinners
Unsure how that's actively hurting females in any way.
>"""chivalry""""
??? That's very ambiguous, usually, chivalry is a very honorable trait.
>women being expected to perform all of the emotional labor in a relationship
Emotional labor? Humans, in general, handles their emotion differently and part of being in a relationship is understanding those differences.

Based Verhoeven

What the fuck is emotional labor? Is this what w*men unironically believe in?

This was one of the first movies I've ever seen and I grew up to be a fascist

I love how Starship Troopers continues to appeal to the dumbest of dumbfuck right wingers, the autistic reichfags who just want to wear hugo boss uniforms and march around like some kind of faggot herd animal, because the ST uniforms look cool.

I guess you woke fashies just missed how there's no more culture, with every city on earth being a bland corporate multiculturalism mass of indistinguishable bug people, or how society blows smoke up the youth's ass about how they're all epic heroes only to cash them out in their mid-20s to make room for the next wave of unthinking teenagers, or how blatant false flag attacks that would make a Jew kvetch at their sheer scale and audacity are instantly accepted with no thought from the bugpeople populace, or how women can't breed without licenses which involve horrific military duty that winds up killing or disbarring most of them so only cowardly or lucky women survive long enough to become cititzens producing dysgenic offspring, or how the government is taking control of psychics and training them to mentally dominate the populace without people even knowing they're being controlled (which Stalin and other commie fucks were very interested in IRL), or how the military employs strategies and tactics so incompetent that officers are either genuinely inept or purposely creating scenarios where large portions of their soldiers will die as both population control and to create the heroic sacrifice mythos their totalitarian society is built upon.

This movie only appeals to the shittiest kind of right winger.

>toxic masculinity

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I know you're baiting, but I'm also very insecure so I'm going to respond just this once.

>Unsure how that's actively hurting females in any way.
Women are as capable as men, but they aren't given opportunities because people still percieve "mens jobs" and "women's work". It's aggressive, bullying and intimidation.

>??? That's very ambiguous, usually, chivalry is a very honorable trait.
Infantalising women, treating them as less capable of dealing with things and inherently needing things done for them is coercive and insulting. Obviously not everyone is wonder woman and some women appreciate being taken care of, but this being the default is patriarchal, like women are property to be protected.

>Emotional labor? Humans, in general, handles their emotion differently and part of being in a relationship is understanding those differences.
>What the fuck is emotional labor?

All the stuff you take for granted in day to day life. Like shell cook dinner, she'll remember birthdays, she'll look after the kids, even if you offer to help. The woman is the "caring and sensitive" one in the couple, she'll be fine remembering dates and doing chores, because that's her role.

Think that armor was also in '90s Outer Limits, too.

>It's a leftist doesn't realize the things supposedly being parodied have so much inherent goodness and preferability to today's orthodoxy that they fail as parodies and inadvertently become sterling propaganda
>episode
And on a side note, making it a hamhanded work where your bad guys are incompetent boobs never works for the audience and leads go commercial failure. You, I mean you, really can't win.

Is the joke here that Starship Troopers' fictional ineffectual fascism has exactly the same consequences as real ineffectual neoliberalism? The world is too post-post-ironic for me to tell the subtle facetious posts from the genuine ones anymore.

>makes an entire blogpost about his tranny gf
>"and that's why his joke upset me"

ayy yo i aint reading that lol (lmao 2) but yo sinze i aint readn it why don yous say whats you says here but only n like 1 r 2 sentences so's i dont get bored readn it lol ayy that shit would be hella cash, yo lol (lmao 2)

>Like shell cook dinne
Women my age don't cook, at all really. Except the ones who do it for a job for the most part. Not too many are having children or getting married either. It's peak equality. Even all the movies are feminist now. You have no reason to complain.

So suffer for/instead of women eh? Yeah, yeah no fuck that. I swear to god will kill the lot of you once artificial wombs are around.

>"I haven't actually read the book"
The only "fascist" element in the Starship Troopers book is that only those served in the military can vote. But outside of that there's no difference between a veteran and a normal guy. Anyone can join the miltary, including cripples, and you don't have to be a soldier, you can also be a medic or a cook in some shithole planet in the middle of nowhere. The main character is a Filipino who comes from an upper-class family. If anything the book is libertarian/conservative.

>Women are as capable as men, but they aren't given opportunities
Fuck right off with that lie
>Infantalising women, treating them as less capable of dealing with things and inherently needing things done for them is coercive and insulting. Obviously not everyone is wonder woman and some women appreciate being taken care of, but this being the default is patriarchal, like women are property to be protected.
None of that has anything to do with chivalry you stupid cunt.

>All the stuff you take for granted in day to day life. Like shell cook dinner, she'll remember birthdays, she'll look after the kids, even if you offer to help. The woman is the "caring and sensitive" one in the couple, she'll be fine remembering dates and doing chores, because that's her role.
Bunch of lies. Modern woman can't even cook anymore. I was the better cook in my last 3 relationships. "Caring and sensitive" is another fairy tale the same with emotional labor. Men have the same emotions and doing fucking housework has nothing to do with your emotional side.
You are spouting dumb talking points from an feminist manifesto and you are so fucking stupid, you don't even understand what you are talking about.

i saw these two photos together and thought this was the "bradu pittu" meme since one has to do with bug people and the other brad pitt acting like a badass.

this is late stage christianity at work

rly makin me think

you know not every movie has a political message.

So: stereotypical= essencial?

If it was they did a shit job at it. Sure you got the sense the government was propagandizing to you, but our governments already do that. What qualities can be attributed to the government in the film. We see that they are tech savvy, composed entirely by dedicated individuals willing to risk their life for governance, and when people fuck up in it, they suffer the consequences.

Gf’s sperm??

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True, but these two did.

The top is starship Troopers right?

Starship Troopers 4 is the movie Verhoeven actually wanted to make

yes

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Kys

another chronic case of ligma, sad

it's when ugly men try to do something with themselves
obviously chads cannot be toxic, and 98% of men should just kill themselves

That screenshot doesn’t do anything.

A HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA

>toxic masculinity

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Borderline personality disorder

>taking anything from Verhoeven as more than the goofy schlock its intended to be
>completely missing the point of fight club

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A man can do all this and be a man, you just want men becoming faggots. Kill yourself

youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys

Starship Troopers 3 had some tunes ngl

>challenging misogynistic behaviour
Modern Yea Forums in a nutshell folks.

The intention of the director is for Bateman to appear somewhat pathetic. They fail because he's too funny and good looking.

imo the third act of the movie devolves into boring pointlessness because in the end the central thesis of the movie - Wall Street guys are narcissists and sociopaths - is trite and shallow.

this makes the lefty seethe

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Unironically kill yourself you dumb cunt.

It's genuinely a better movie than ST1

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Please die. Why haven’t you killed yourself yet?

So of all the stereotypical toxic masculinity, the job opportunity seems like the only real problem here. Everything else is extremely personal and changes from person to person, it is completely wrong to assume that the majority of modern male would hold all of these beliefs towards women in general.

Honest communication and understanding are key to cultivate love in a relationship and using terms like toxic masculinity seem more like an attack on males rather than an actual attempt at building understanding between sexes.

it was really more just mocking the metrosexual lifestyle in the 80s there wasn't really an intention on making a political message to the movie

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>Expressing your emotions
Guys generally has always done that, they just aren't as good at conveying their feelings since they lack the social skills of women (biologically). Difficult to blame someone for biology.
>challenging misogynistic behaviour
Misogynistic means outright hate. It's like using racism instead of xenophobia. Very few men hate women, but I agree that some show prejudice. Regardless, misogyny is a very hard word, often not merited.
>talking rather than committing suicide
See point one

Perceiving someone who challenges your inappropriate behaviour as an attack is part of the problem, and indeed it's at the core of why so many otherwise rational men succumb to toxic masculinity as a fallback attitude.

I'd say about 30% of this was probably accurate in the 1950's, now it's roughly zero. Modern women don't cook, or care for anyone. At least as far as entry level jobs go, they have a way easier time getting employed because businesses want their staff to be girls just so customers either feel enticed to spend more or are more hesitant to get angry at them. You're delusional.

No he didnt. If you read the book you would remember the fact that he very clearly talks about being a white male lost in modern society. Palanik browsed daily stormer "ironically" and his dad was killed by a nig. He last book was also day of the rope unironically.

Drew is that you?

>us against them
>conform or be dehumanized
>disabilities are points of pride
>follow your betters or be displaced
>even children must learn to hate
>status matters more than safety
>war is the solution to foreign resistance of our ideals
>all currently Left Wing positions

Not anymore it don't.
Hillary wanted war with Russia.

Was talking about Heinlein user.

>Only those who served in the military can vote
>Only those who voluntarily immersed themselves in government sanctioned propaganda can vote
There's your fascism.

It's a nobody cares what some faggot commie thinks episode, in reality.

One example is the archetype of the overbearing mother who seeks to protect her son from all risk, raising him in a sterilised environment that stunts his development.

If it's too sophisticated for the average viewer to understand then what's the point?

Then you're just preaching to the choir.

>If we didn't blame that meteor on the bugs, the bug menace would have gotten stronger.

If we didn't blame the meteor on the bugs, then the bugs did literally nothing wrong, we're the agressors, and we're asking for every single pointless death we bring upon ourselves in the bug war.

Its used to describe men in gangs. But how its any man who stands up for himself.

Honestly not sure who I hate more, women or their white knights

youtube.com/watch?v=R2FGWBY4bgM

this. no matter what is always, always mens fault.

Even got into a debate with some feminist co-worker the other day. Asked them about toxic femininity. First they denied it existed, then they concluded that it must be a product of mens bad behaviour because "men creates bad environment for women"

toxic masculinity = mens fault
toxic femininity = mens fault

it's not too sophisticated, you're just a dullard

>The woman is the "caring and sensitive" one in the couple, she'll be fine remembering dates and doing chores, because that's her role

Yeah because it fucking is her role you dumb fuck

Oh boy, here we fuckin go!

It's another
>I'm going to willingly ignore basic rules of the english fucking language so I can look like the victim and propagate my retarded anti-SJW agenda
episode. I can't fucking wait!

>haha mom i was sexist online
>can i have cookies now???

>antidote masculinity

lol u wot

It means all masculinity is toxic.

Also, because elephant seals exist, that means all seals are, in fact, elephants.

Toxic feminity is the inappropriate behavior of holding absurd standard towards men and expect them to carefully and perfectly cater to their emotional needs, desires, and expectations and have an immediate profound understanding of their personality without themselves having to work hard at building said mutual understanding and respect and falls back to blaming toxic masculinity for their failed attempts at relationships.

Kinda swing both ways. Toxic masculinity, I'm afraid, isn't a thing.

based

Antidote cures Toxic in Pokemon, I made a linguistic assumption

Where's the pro-war part? Is that the scene where the dude cries for his mother on the beach while he holds his guts in? Or where the big Italian dude asks his buddy to mail his final letter home to his family as he slowly bleeds out in the middle of a street?

toxic masculinity isn't english it's jew babel like racist or nazi.

>implying a meritocracy isn't anti-nog
>implying we wouldn't immediately democratically decide to eradicate them all

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I know this Yea Forums but I'm gonna type out this reddit shit anyway so be prepared. "Toxic masculinity" and "masculinity" are two very differeny concepts that often get mistaken for eachother by idiots. Toxic masculinity are the expectations society has for men, that most of the time end up hurting men more than women. Stuff like "men don't cry", "men can't be open about their emotions", "a man's value correlates with how much pussy he gets" are all examples of toxic masculinity.

>essencial
huehuehue

>men need to express emotions more

This dumbass recycled normie meme is how I know you're a 100 IQ brainlet who has never had an original thought.

>implying that, by contrast, women do express emotion properly and men are somehow faulty and should just be more like women

>using terms like toxic masculinity seem more like an attack on males rather than an actual attempt at building understanding between sexes.
Now you get it

i mean fight club was written by an actual literal unironic faggot so...

>Stuff like "men don't cry", "men can't be open about their emotions", "a man's value correlates with how much pussy he gets" are all examples of toxic masculinity.
They're also all, ironically examples of behaviors who's negative status is largely enforced by women.

I'm not being sexist I'm being 100% non ironic. Women are more caring because, unlike men, they give birth to helpless infants you dumb fucking retard. Men are less sensitive because men, unlike women, need to have it within themselves to inflict, witness, and sustain horrific violence.

It seems the definition of toxic masculinity varies from people to people and loses or gains points as a consequence. This social definition of a social concept is very socially unscientific.

>Freud didn't like men

>blah blah sexist stereotypes

wow, I'm converted

>One of these things is not like the other!
Did you wake up this morning and say to yourself "I want to be the most colossal faggot I can be today"?

There's no fascism shown in that movie. Please point out instances of fascism.

This is the absolute truth that nobody seems to want to understand.

Bless you for trying to educate these morons, user, even if its in vain.

He killed people. What have you done, faggot.

>Women are as capable as men, but they aren't given opportunities because people still percieve "mens jobs" and "women's work". It's aggressive, bullying and intimidation.
Women literally do that to themselves. The vast majority of women DO NOT go into hard labor fields like construction or even trades like plumbing. Women almost exclusively go for cushy office jobs, medical and teaching positions. Despite DECADES of propaganda telling them they can do whatever they want. Do you know why? It's because male and female brains have been hardwired to desire different kinds of work throughout the millennia. And guess what? There is LITERALLY nothing wrong with that. You canNOT force women to do work they do not want to do the same way you cannot force men.

>boo hoo society has restrictive expectations of me

No shit, that's what a society is.

It's true, everything gender related boils down to very simple principles. Women get pregnant, men don't. Eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap. Men fuck, women get fucked.

>

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I don't see a single issue here. Less competition on the dating market.

Not an argument

>'women give birth'
>sexist stereotype

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>try to critique something
>accidentally make it look awesome

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In what way is Fight Club a critique of toxic masculinity.
It's a movie about masculinity, yes.
But in what fucking way is it critiquing toxic masculinity.

DJ Khalid quit "The Hot Ones" after 3 wings. Opinions attached to his visage are invalid

Yes

So feminist pretend to to fight against something they them-self have created, but try to make it look like its the men's fault?
Why am i not surprised?

I have kinda thought about this and the answer is Bruce Springsteen

Found the roastie. It's so utterly clear from the way you write.

>Women are more caring because, unlike men, they give birth to helpless infants
MEN BAD
WOMEN BRAVE AND FUNNY

2deep4u

You actually watch that shit

It's fun. Turns out Gordon Ramsay is a massive bitch nigga

My god this is such a terrible fucking board

Trips confirms this.

There's been plenty of studies on this too. Men tend to go more towards goal oriented things like science, woman go for people related work like social work.
Trying to force people against their biological impulses and desire is going to create a negative unbalance

Jesus christ dude how bad is your reading comprehension?
My point was the exact fucking opposite of what you think it was.

Enlighten us

BASED

Why do you all hate each other so much

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depiction isn't endorsement, faggot!

everyone besides me is a cunt

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Did you even watch the film?

Society set a certain expectation for men.
Men are supposed to have status. Be rich. Be fit. Be famous. Dress well. Have an ikea home. Have certain form of masculinity, that advertisement (and women) have sold to you. This form of masculinity is called "toxic" nowadays.

And society programs you to think, if don't follow a certain pattern, you're not a "real" man. Go to school, get a job, get married, have kids, buy a house etc. But Fight Club set out to question that believe. What is a real man?

>Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War.

Look at a character like Bob who has 'bitch tits'
>What you see at fight club is a generation of men raised by women.

Feminist unfortunately have "hijacked" the word toxic masculinity to mean anything that a man does, it toxic. You're not a type of person that cries a lot, that cuz you're tOxiC MasCuLiNiTy. They can twist the word to mean anything they want

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you know the multiple bill burr bits about being afraid to express any kind of emotion, vulnerability, or desire for something as innocuous as bananas on your pancakes in front of male peers?

>Why am i not surprised?
Because it's textbook toxic femininity.

>Anything that could categorically make me look bad is intentional propaganda!
Oh of course! The cornerstone of doublespeak.

Most reasonable feminists won't deny that.

Is this like how the Warriors was supposed to be anti gang but all the gang members loved it?

>Most reasonable feminists won't deny that.
Unfortunately for them that list is so short you could put it in a fortune cookie.

They're the same thing, though.
To join the military means to be entirely subject to the intentions of the military. And if only military vets can vote, then only laws and politicians that benefit the military will be passed, meaning the military runs the government, which is the definition of a dictatorship.

>reasonable feminists
so that's what like 5 or 6 people in the entire world

So it's as I said; it's about masculinity but nothing to do with 'toxic masculinity'

Feminists didn't hijack the phrase, the feminist definition is the only definition of toxic masculinity.

It's more that a lot of people, even some including feminists, completely misunderstand the concept.

couldn't have said it better

That was my first instinct
People unironically think the system won't exist if they just close their eyes and pretend it's not there. Instead of having someone lead us we just spiral into absolute chaos and destruction

>It's a criticism is so self-obsessed and barbless that it isn't even seen as one episode

Libtards are pathetic lol

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That's the point.
Facism is supposed to look good until you stop and think about it.

This
Sarcasm in film is just conspiracy theory nonsense

The canonical take is the most simple: the director is simply telling a story with no gimmicks

Faggot

The question is, do we really need these retrictions? Apparantly being open about your emotions doesn't cause any problems since women do it all the time, so why can't we do it? "Because it's the way it is" is not an answer, since we can always change the way things are if needed.

Men should NEVER show weakness
You turn it into something, faggot

Women are emotional, but have absolutely no sense of morality

Then they shouldn’t have made it look so appealing. You don’t cast brad pitt to make something look less masculine.

>reasonable
>feminists
Pick 1 and only 1.

>It's about society!
>And by society, we mean women!
>Even though the movie never states this outright, and actually goes out of its way to show the only woman in the whole fucking movie as helpless and pointless.

Bit of a reach, bud.

Starship Troopers is in absolutely no way a sophisticated critique of fascism, it's extremely on the nose, to the extent that if you didn't notice that the message of the film is 'FASCISM = BAD' you are an absolute brainlet.

Having said that, the aesthetics and appeal of fascism* are so strong that the message is drowned out.

*heirachy, patriotism, strength, purpose, glorious death in battle, sweet uniforms

Did you even read what I said? Seriously read it again, and watch the film again.

Fight Club IS a critique of toxic masculinity. It criticises the expectation of society towards men and toxic behaviour it sets upon men and their masculinity.

>the feminist definition is the only definition of toxic masculinity.
Nope. As I said before, feminist change it to mean whatever they want (usually negative towards men). Even the author agrees that they have hijacked it "It seems like a label put on a certain type of behavior from the outside. It’s just such a vague term that it’s hard to address."

Now this is a perfect example of toxic masculinity. It's completely useless bullshit based on some cavemen values and does nothing but hurt men.

>it's an OP is 12 and wat is this

They have a sense of it but it's either informed by or completely overwhelmed by their solipsism.

>which is the definition of a dictatorship.
No it's not you retard. A dictatorship is a form of government ruled by a dictator, a singular person of supreme authority that no one else can supersede. What you are trying to reference is a military junta. Both are tyrannical, but only one is a dictatorship. Educate yourself before you try to sound smart.

You didn't get the film at all though. Fight Club depicts men being frustrated about the yuppie/capitlist expectations set for men who fall for the false premise of thinking that being primitive and aggressive is the right way to fight said expectations when in reality it's just backwards and useless. It's pretty obvious that what the characters achieve in the film is just pointless chaos and cheesy punchlines. It's basically a story about the bitter people nowadays called "alt right" who believe that the answer to their problems is vague tradtitionalism and pointless aggression.

Brad Pitt isn't a real character in the movie. It's what the significantly less masculine Edward Norton imagines himself as. He's supposed to be the embodyment of how a lot of males percieve masculinity. He has to be a chad for it to make sense.

>does nothing but hurt men
WRONG. It strengthens and empowers not only men, but the species as a whole.
>Hard men create good times
>Good times create soft men
>Soft men create bad times
>Bad times create hard men
>Hard men create good times
It's a tale as old as humanity itself.

>The movie that is literally about a guy who founds a club based on wonton violence that spirals out of control, ultimately destroying civilization as we know it
>iT's nOt AbOuT tOxIc MaScUlInItY YoU GuYs

You realize that's a cycle of destruction that has bore out through history and not, like, a model to be followed, right?

What do you mean? It IS about society pushing an agenda and selling an unrealistic dream. The book even makes this more clear.

The film is a tribute to masculinity but also criticises the stereotypical "masculinity" behavior (sold through advertisement and stuff) at the same time.

You're right. But
>the stereotypical "masculinity" behavior (sold through advertisement and stuff)
Is usually what people refer to when they talk about "Toxic masculinity"

OP is a fag

You realize that the only way it can be broken is by men staying "hard", right? Soft men are just too goddamn pussified to do anything difficult.

Holy shit.
Meant to quote

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Again
>implying women, by contrast, process emotions properly and men should be more like women

Women attempt suicide far more than men, self harm far more than men, take anti depressants more than men, are more likely to be diagnosed as mentally ill than men. And, anecdotally, women are a mess emotionally.

When you tell a boy not to cry it's for a good reason. It's not that he needs to bottle up his emotions and pretend they don't exist, it's because he needs to learn to process them and deal with them. Women let their emotions control them. Men have to learn to control their emotions. Telling them otherwise is deeply harmful.

I think everyone would agree levels of traditional masculinity are lower than they were, say, 80 years ago? And yet men commit suicide and have mental health issues at a much higher rate today.

HMMMMMMMM big brain think

Left can't meme or satire. Their failed attempts at satire actually work as propaganda for the other side.

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I think he knows what satire is but not how to use it in a film. Starship Troopers made facism look fucking great.

I'm not a cunt, YOU'RE a cunt

It doesn't critique toxic masculinity it critiques the state of men in modern society.

That's not what fucking toxic masculinity means though.

American Psycho

>Women attempt suicide far more than men
They do not.

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>Fight Club IS a critique of toxic masculinity
No it isn't. It's a critique of advertisement and consumerism. Durden critiques men buying cheap IKEA crap furniture because ads say to, or buying a duvet they don't need, or buying male products like Calvin Klein underwear because the ad says to. Every criticism Durden gives is a criticism of ads and consumer products like attacking the Starbucks, or blowing up the credit card buildings. You should really rewatch the movie because you completely missed the point.

Except you forgot the part where the movie sets up 'civilisation as we know it' as a cloying, miserable hell for men, you brainlet

You didn't get the film at all though. Fight Club depicts men being frustrated about the yuppie/capitlist expectations set for men who fall for the false premise of thinking that being primitive and aggressive is the right way to fight said expectations when in reality it's just backwards and useless. It's pretty obvious that what the characters achieve in the film is just pointless chaos and cheesy punchlines. It's basically a story about the bitter people nowadays called "alt right" who believe that the answer to their problems is vague tradtitionalism and pointless aggression.

Key word

A T T E M P T
T
T
E
M
P
T

>Women attempt suicide far more than men, self harm far more than men, take anti depressants more than men
That's because antidepressant increase risk of suicide attempts. Stop taking antidepressants and they won't try to kill themselves.

>In 2005, a systematic review of published randomized controlled trials comparing SSRIs with other active treatments or placebo found an almost 2-fold increase in the odds of fatal and nonfatal suicide acts among those exposed to SSRIs [44].
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4034101/

>meritocratic citizen's republic = Fascism !
why are leftwingers so dumb?

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Explain to what part of what I wrote is wrong.
Protip: you can't.

I am not disagreeing what you are saying tho. Most of the films character were constantly being depicted as brainless robots or "space monkey" pushing button without thinking.

But you're basically saying that Fight Club is useless violence, when it reality it gave these lost men (temporarily) a possibility to escape that 'yuppie/capitlist'/society and advertisement expectations

You missed the point of the movie. You really didn't understand it. Let's look at some quotes:
>““You buy furniture. You tell yourself, this is the last sofa I will ever need in my life. Buy the sofa, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your sofa issue handled. Then the right set of dishes. Then the perfect bed. The drapes. The rug. Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you.”
It's about consumerism.

>An universe full of who-knows-what
>"I think pacifism is the right way"

>That's because antidepressant increase risk of suicide attempts.
This. I have legit medically diagnosed depression. Doc put me on antidepressants and that was the only time in my life that I became suicidal. Dropped that shit fast and just smoke weed LMAO instead and I'm much more emotionally balanced than when I was on antidepressants.

>feminism attacks traditional masculinity, gender roles and the family, leaving men in an increasingly unsure position in society, without male role models, derided constantly as toxic sexists
>men start committing suicide at higher and higher rates
>'its because we don't have enough feminism'

Disgusting

It critiques the state of men AND their masculinity in modern society. Which also includes certain aspect of it that is toxic.

Therefore toxic masculinity

The quote you posted is meant to be interpreted as naive and cheesy. Now don't get me wrong, the 20th century consumerist frenzy is fucked up but all Tyler Durden has to offer to fight it is cheesy punchlines like the one you posted and thus he is ultimately ridiculous and dangerous. If you would really want to fight capitalism the right way isn't juvenile aggression.

>meritocratic

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>CTRL+F = masculinity
>54 result

Jesus Christ

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Being cheesy doesn't change the fact that the book and movie both are critiques of consumer culture.

Is that a more recent quote from the author? "Toxic Masculinity" as a rhetorical device or concept wasn't in the common social lexicon back in '99 when Fight Club came out. Back then it was pretty obviously a critique of consumerist/commercial culture.

>Feminist unfortunately have "hijacked" the word toxic masculinity to mean anything that a man does, it toxic. You're not a type of person that cries a lot, that cuz you're tOxiC MasCuLiNiTy. They can twist the word to mean anything they want

You have to be kind of out of touch to think that. What is called "toxic masculinity" is precisely the pointless and juvenile aggression/violence depicted in Fight Club. The apprentices of Tyler Durden are meant to be seen ans mindless apes showcasing the futile dick-measuring contest of traditionally masculine men. Ie. being strong and violent but not thinking at all what is the point of their doings.

What's the problem here?

We're arguing nothing but semantics now, but you're using the phrase 'toxic masculinity' completely inappropriately.

Haven't read the book but the film, obiously being a critique on consumer culture, in the same time is a critique on toxic masculinity.

It isn't because those are two different things and toxic masculinity wasn't even an idea yet at that time. Chuck Pahlaniuk is known for being extremely masculine and toxic.

the man in the high castle

>You should watch the movie again
>NO yoU ShouLd WatCh The MoviE aGain!!

Listen, there are multiple themes running throughout this film. Some good and some bad. Consumerism, advertisement, masculinity, capitalism, self-help etc. Fight Club criticises some of them a lot.

When Tyler looks at the Calvin Klein ad and say "is this how a man should look?" it's a critic of consumerism and toxic masculinity at the same time. Go back and watch it. He's criticizing how the world has defines a "real man" should look like. He's criticizing how society say you can only be masculin if you have a sixpack - toxic masculinity.

>This is better than real life. Bodybuilding creates a kind of artificial reality, where a man is judged based on his own physical accomplishments in beefing up his masculinity as far as it can go. Kind of like fight club, when you think about it.
A critique of toxic masculinity

his books don't exactly say 'men should go out and do this shit, and this is a good thing' they just say 'men will go out and do this shit, and this is what will happen'

Nope. Literally says "Corporations are telling men to buy shit and they don't need it because men are primal and masculine without buying things."

>mfw I see a man who looks like he spends more than 10 minutes grooming himself in the mirror

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You don't need to buy shit OR blow shit up.

>it's a pedant who doesn't understand that people still enjoy and glamorize these things even if they're aware it's satire episode

"Yankee Doodle Dandy"

Well the book is about men reclaiming their masculine destructive self to tear down all of society so it can be rebuilt in a powerful masculine image. If anything it's pro-masculinity. It's about liberating men from feminizing influences of consumer culture and letting them because primal beasts who just fight, fuck, and conquer.

because one of the characters says so?

realistically, Tyler gave the narrator an army of political support to establish power in the existing system

You think that Fight Club and the actual Fight Club (which involves fighting) is one big satirical criticism of how traditional masculinity and mindless childless violence is wrong because the movie concludes with Tyler taking it to far and The Narrator end up giving up on Tyler.
I get where you are coming from, I get it. I just that you wrong... Like really wrong. Like didn't even see the film.

>The apprentices of Tyler Durden are meant to be seen ans mindless apes showcasing the futile dick-measuring contest of traditionally masculine men
Get a load of this bullshit. Tyler is not a criticism of traditionally masculinity, he is a embracement of it. Sure he takes it too far with the space monkey and project mayhem, which is only to show you need a balance. He embraces both his Tyler side and this normal side.

Nice try roastie. Women just don't get Fight Club apparently.

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The author was also a closeted gay man at the time it was published. I'm not sure in what way a homosexual undertone could be read into it but its something to ponder about.

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They reuse the armour in Imposter also.

>it's yet another retard who didn't understand Fight Club
Fight Club is nihilistic, and its message is that if you try to flee a trend to bandwagon another, it's just as bad, seeking to be original will just put yourself in another mould, and trying to fight the system will just make you into something as bad as it or worse.

Not that guy but feminists have twisted that word to mean any male behavior that they see fit. You sure sound like a feminist to me

>Get a load of this bullshit. Tyler is not a criticism of traditionally masculinity, he is a embracement of it. Sure he takes it too far with the space monkey and project mayhem, which is only to show you need a balance. He embraces both his Tyler side and this normal side.

They don't show the guys in project mayhem bullying each other. The part that is bad is that they're about to go too far, the film is pretty careful to show that the camaraderie is genuine.

>this is the same as shooting up and killing a bunch of people
What is reality even like for a /pol/nigger? How backwards must it truly be?

Yeah I think the point is that Edward Norton kind overcorrects himself. He gets too much like Tyler, but in the end finds a middle between them, his former self and Tyler.

>people

This is the entire reason Reefer Madness became a cult hit.

Well yeah that's kinda what you're supposed to do. Its cool but its also insanely dangerous. I mean Tyler is cool beans and all but the space monkeys are all fucking braindead cult members.

trimp

This is a good answer which is also not complete onions.

People say starship troopers was mocking or satirizing fascism but I don't think so. There are times in the movie where it sort of does promote fascism. Like in high school. Rico's teacher is a good man. He is a mentor to Rico and is seen as an overall decent person. He also makes a good lecture about using military force. Yet there are opposite characters like the guy who finds the idea of a brain bug offensive. That guy is obviously an idiot, but not the professor.

We all realize that, idiot. What you fail to realize, though, is that even in your attempts to critique “toxic masculinity” and fascism, you still end up making these concepts appear appealing.

Men can give birth too you bigot

>5edge6me
fuck off, faggot.

This

He uses the power to tear down the existing system. Remember the bombs at the end? It's like you've never seen the movie.
There are many gay men who celebrate masculinity and hate women. Chuck is just one of them.

>getting this mad
lol

Men crying, holding other men's hands, and the like is much more normal in Arab and East Asian cultures, ones that are MUCH more patriarchal than Western societies. Western men suppressing their emotions plays a major role in allowing the space for women to participate in life anywhere outside of the home.

>u le mad bro XD
What year do you think this is? No, your soiboy meme is not even the same realm as a politically brainwashed murderer.

You're either wrong or it doesn't matter because they don't succeed, they succeed at doing the opposite.

yup, look at Elite Squad

star wars the force awakens and last jedi, the first order seems comfy as fuck while the multiracial brigade is a disorganized mess

Shitskin shit holes.

Rorschach from Watchmen, the judges from Judge Dredd.

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they succeed at "doing the opposite" only with people who lean towards believing that the films are dogwhistles for THEIR own ideologies, user. Starship Troopers as a film, was literally anti-fascist. That's what the director wanted.

>Literally all popular satire is left-leaning or made by left-leaning people

What the director wanted and what happened in this case are the opposite of each other. The director failed at his goals. It happens.

Again, the only people the "opposite" message resonates with, are already flirting with naziboo bullshit to begin with.

Isn't this an inherent contradiction within the art medium of film itself? In order to make something seem appealing to get people to go see it, it has to be made to be as aesthetically appealing and "cool" as possible even if you are also simultaneously trying critiquing it. Seems to be a common theme within the war genre where most war films are supposedly anti-war while also having great action scenes and cinematography etc.

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No one is talking about the message resonating. We're talking about the message that was perceived by the audience. Everyone loved what appeared to be a pro-fascist message that made fascists look super cool. The director failed in his goals because he made fascism look powerful and cool. This same thing always happens because liberals don't really understand the real world since they've never been to it before.

>No one is talking about the message resonating. We're talking about the message that was perceived by the audience
You're unironically retarded if you don't understand the argument being made to you, holy shit.

You sure sound like an incel to me and i mean that, sorry bud.

>can't help himself but to complain about liberals liberals liberals
wut? Why? What does you having a gripe with liberals, have to do with this movie being an obvious political satire of fascismo?

You clearly didn't understand the discussion ITT. You should probably just leave or go back and read it again until you do.

Those eunuch's have a 50% suicide rate. Their movement targets the mentally unstable and now children. But yeah fuck that bigot for not accepting them. Do you even know any trans people? They are fucked.

The discussion is the same old autism; some /pol/tard thinks Starship Troopers is a supa dupa sekret dogwhistle or love letter to fascism because "da fascists look cool" while missing all the subtext to the fucking movie in the first place, like how the attack was a false flag, or how the entire predication for war is based on literal propaganda the war department invents to justify taking over a habitable planet, or how everyone who enlists dies horrific deaths and short, mutilated lives with no personal freedoms or choice.

Christ, how can you still be this retarded in the age of the internet?

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I have no clue what you are even on about, user...I'm not retarded...

The best example I think of with this is The Joker in The Dark Knight. He's made to look really "cool", even though what is does is terrible.

But also remember even though the film is simultaneously trying critiquing him, doesn't mean the character itself doesn't have a point.

Same goes for Tyler Durden. He takes it too far (which the film indirect critiquing) but he still serve to critique the other end. The boring spinless desk job end of the spectrum

Being open about you emotions and not being afraid to cry doesn't make you incompetent in any way.

Again you have missed the point of this thread. Literally everyone in the world found it to be a pro-fascist movie because that's how it looks to everyone. Yes, we all watched that dvd commentary and heard the director crying because no one got his failed attempt at satire. No one cares what he intended because he failed at achieving it. He's like a kid who draws a swastika as a satire of actual Nazis and then cries because people thought it was just a swastika.

So, either you have alzheimers or can't read. I can believe that.

>Literally everyone in the world found it to be a pro-fascist movie because that's how it looks to everyone.
No, how absolutely stupid are you?

This post pretty much summarizes the point of the whole film.

You just sound mentally ill and backdoor defending a mass shooter for some reason.

I know you don't speak to real people in real life but you should get out of the basement more.

You're backdoor a faggot

How do you not get the subtext of the movie? The entire training section of the movie, shows you how fucking horrible the life of a soldier is. Everyone is a broken person at the mercy of the government...who then just annihilates an entire city to justify invading a planet that does nothing until they get attacked by humans?

Cope, your tactics don't work anymore.

>People twisting words to fit their own political agenda
NO NO NO NO NO this could never happen in 2019!!! This could simply never happen! Let me just call him an incel for now, that will show him

Go to bed roastie, if you need more feminism you might wanna head back reddit and tumblr. No one here likes your made up feminist interpretation of Fight Club, sorry bud.

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Again, you're being too stupid for this thread. I know exactly what you're saying. And no one else in the world does. That's the point. Your average Joe Blow sees it as pro-fascist. That's the point. You're too stupid to understand this?

>like how the attack was a false flag
No, it was not. The bugs' ability to launch asteroids at Earth is discussed at great length in the sequels. The bugs attacked Earth, and Earth retaliated. That's it. The government was fully controlled by the military, they wouldn't need a false flag to rally people to war against the bugs. They could declare war preemptively and that would be that. It's also shown in the first movie that Mormon separatist settlers were being slaughtered on the edges of human space. The bugs were not a peaceful race in either the movies or the book, and you're intrinsic leftist desire to cuck yourself for violent xenos is fucking disgusting but expected.

>You frequent a community that almost exclusively complains about women and minorities being the cause of all their problems
>the entire /gif/ board, where retards just want to jerk off, ends with every thread being a shitstorm complaining about women
>then you make this picture
>after complaining about feminism, reddit and tumblr
yikes.