Based writer Timothy Zahn on the villains in new Disney Star Wars films:

seems like timothy zahn is kind of a moron

C'boath is miles better than anything in nu-wars.

I think Jorrus was an interesting character for the most part. The idea of a cloned Jedi who is unstable because of that is pretty cool. It's important to remember that those books were written during a time when there really wasn't any SW lore outside of what we had known in the movies. The Sith wasn't even a thing. Vader, Jorrus are referred to as "Dark Jedi". Jorrus seems like a bit of a Mary Sue, he's basically as powerful as the Emperor but, again, the rules weren't really in place yet. Palpatine was just the Emperor who ruled the galaxy and was more powerful than Vader. The concept that he was basically untouchable in his abilities hadn't really been established.

>shitting on C'Boath

He was unstable as hell, but he was still a good villain. Like that bit where he terrifies Thrawn and Pellaeon by seizing control of the minds of the Star Destroyer's crew.

>Abrams

Lucas chose capable directors from the old school for the sequels rather than fanboy directors whose identity is defined by how many allusions to other films they can fit in.

Lucas had ideas and fine if not inspired direction way more consistent than what we've seen from this new batch of films.

Fuck off Lucas aggravated most fans with his special editions bullcrap that went for years.

The problem with TFA was that Abrams and Kasdan told Michael Arndt to go fuck himself and wrote a generic derivative script together. If he was just directing then it would’ve been fine.

Funny, I actually had a strangely long conversation with him about how much he loved Kylo Ren at Awesomecon

>Went to a convention where a paid employee of gigantic corporation told me how great giant corporation's product was
Whoa

He isn't wrong, Kylo barely written as a villain, he's more like an angsty teenager. I mean he's on bad guys side and he did a bad things but he also trying to no cross the line for some reason. Overall it's still not make any sence, I just don't know what the fuck Kylo want, what his problem.

He's dead and has been replaced with Tomothy Zahnn

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Remember the bit where C'Baoth rooted himself so deep in an underling's mind that once the connection was broke the guy's brain was unable to function and he just died? That was fucking terrifying.

Everyone is turning on Disney Wars, it's fucking great

He was replaced by his clone, Timothy Zaaahn.

Made me chuckle
better name that

>Literally a fucking gorified smurf
>presence

He’s 100% right.
They made Kylo and all the Star Wars villains (especially Hux) into complete jokes to be mocked. They are as bad as Saturday mourning cartoon villains.
The whole First Order is full of incompet idiots. They only reason they win is because they pull technology out of their ass (because plot) and because the Resistance manages to somehow be even more stupid and incompetent to the point they get themselves killed except 10 members.

>Fuck off Lucas aggravated most fans with his special editions bullcrap that went for years.

this is hard to deny but Star Wars is his creation and anything not written or supervised by him is just fan fiction.

Why was his second book in the new Thrawn trilogy such shit? The first and last are kino but that one sucked ass.

Ren is a compelling character, but a failure of a main villain. Ren should have been the rival character to Rey who switches sides at some point, and Snoke should have had some actual effort put into him as a character, and should have been the core villain.

>This
It's 2019, surely you can just download or even shill a bit out for bluray copies of the theatrical cuts so what's the bother, they aren't lost to time.

This would have been better.

Instead we are stuck with no main villain and now Disney has to bring back the Emporer because Snoke croaked.

Star Wars grew way beyond him the moment the first movie aired.
It belongs to the people now. Not him. Not Disney.

Imagine if Darth Vader couldnt defeat Luke in Empire and the Emperor was killed just after being introduced and then you understand that the people who make these movies have no clue what they are doing.

Neither did Lucas know exactly what would happen but at least he understood story structure and character development.

>It belongs to the people now

are you on social welfare?

those books had a comfy star warsy feel. how did shit go so wrong with disney.

What I like about Thrawn is how it plays around with the power dynamics of the Star Wars universe. In the OT the Empire is basically the military arm of this ancient Sith religion. Thrawn spins that around, and shows you an Empire run by a military mind, who employs force users as assets. It's a subtly different take on what the Empire is, and it's interesting.
You also get to see the big Empire/small Rebels dynamic give way to more of an evenly matched situation. You get to see what the Empire does when it's a bit more desperate, and you get to see the Rebels struggle to take the form of a real government.

>George couldn’t stand Mara Jade, well he just couldn’t stand, couldn’t deal and they went out and got some sort of person who looked like she’d stepped out of a Cosmopolitan to be the model Mara and he just thought the whole thing was so not Star Wars and not his vision of Star Wars and once, I forget, I think Sue Rostoni between the novels told me or anyway told me they were killing off Mara Jade and I said ‘Do I get to tell George?'

Why did our boy George hate Mara Jade?

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Nope.
But I know that some things grow beyond their creators.

He didn't think Jedi should ever have sex or get married.

>my villain, who is flawless and would always win every factor is under his control, is way better than this guy
Zahn's not wrong but that doesn't mean he's not a faggot and a hack.

A lot of the novel Jedi read like something out of bad fan fiction.

based thrawn writer and based legends/EU

No they dont.

Are you telling me that every fan movie is canon? If it belongs in the hands of everybody then it belongs to nobody and is defined by nothing.

This. George Lucas was, like, the antithesis of sex regardless but he had a huge boner for chivalry and knighthood and samurai. He wanted Luke to remain a samurai priest, not knock up the evil bimbo. Which I honestly unironically agree with him. Zahn was the only one that was good at writing Jade anyways.

A good 50% of the fan movies are better than the actual movies.
100% are better than Disney Wars.
Check out the Pink Five series. That shit is kino.

Who the fuck cares? At this point, why would you even care about anything that takes place in the "Lol canon" Disneyverse? They have fucked it up so colossally in such short order that they've just ruined any interest I could have in anything that takes place in it.

Only the thrawn and x wing books were any good, and we both know it.

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Apparently George didn't know that samurai took wives and had sex.

Wedge is the best side character that blew up and became huge in the EU.

just because your interest in it is ruined doesn't mean every single person out there experienced the same personal attack you did.

No, but you'd have to be a drooling fucking idiot to still have interest in it.

He also didn’t know that his first wife kept wanting to have sex with him so he just adopted children and let her sleep with the hand of Skywalker Ranch and leave him. He’s not the brightest man.

cringe

>Thrawn would have this guy for lunch! He seems to lose every fight he’s in. There just doesn’t seem to be a sense of real danger in the new movies,

DisneyLF can't even keep their writers in line! They're critiquing the product! How embarrassing.

Then it was a goofy idea to make the protagonist of the original movie to be the son of a jedi then.
If you look at how the jedi are treated and talked about in the OT vs the prequels, they've practically got nothing in common outside of "the force."

>The emperor killed after being introduced
But that’s literally what happened

Luke never struck me as a true Jedi. He was a character who was going to learn from their teachings, but not allow himself to become some weird detached monk. This much, I do appreciate about TLJ. it would have been very easy to just cast Mark Hamill as the new Obi-Wan, but instead he still kind of feels like a humble farm boy who was shouldered with a big responsibility.

That may be so but it does not mean star wars is no defined by fans. If that was so, those lame back stories to things that are no menat to be expanded on would be canon. The only person who can define those things is its original creator. You may look for validity in quality but whether Lucas created something bad or good, it is still something he created for HIS world.

anything Zahn, Stackpole, or Allston wrote was generally worth reading

Luke whole arc is about becoming a Jedi. Going lol he was never a true Jedi is contradictory to his character

>The only person who can define those things is its original creator
Lets just assume this for the moment. That makes the old EU still canon because Lucas approved every one of those books. And didn't approve the new Disney books.

>budgetary constraints
Literally zero proof that budget change his spec script drastically
>incredible editors
When will this meme end? Directors have to provide editors enough coverage in order for the best edits to occur. Editors can't literally change dialogue, shot compositions (save flipping the footage which breaks the 180 rule), or the countless other things DP and Directors are responsible for. Yes, Marcia Lucas is great editor and she gave us a lean and well-paced product. No, she didn't magically fix a failure or reign in George's blunders. Stop recycling talking points that quite literally originated on reddit. inb4 some variant of umad and accompanying wojak edit

As a kid the X-wings and space battles were always my favorite part of the franchise, and I always thought wedge was the unsung badass of the trilogy.
Faggoty mystical bullshit can go blow itself out of the airlock, I want to see some fighter jocks punching way the fuck out of their weight.
When I first heard the title "Rogue One" I admit I got a little hyped, until they said it wasn't a rogue squadron movie.
Who the fuck do I need to blow to get a Top Gun in a galaxy far far away movie? It would print money.

Friendly reminder that this is the guy who thought that an evil clone of Luke Skywalker called Luuke was a good idea.

I like the idea of Luke being someone who was in way over his head trying to keep the legacy that Yoda, Obi-Wan, and his father had left him and having to live with his failure. I even like the idea of him realizing that his protege could snap at any moment and kill everyone around him.

BUT it is a hard pill for everyone else to follow and it really sucks that Luke’s only true legacy was that he blew up the Death Star and saved his father’s soul? Which is still quite an accomplishment but I wish he had a couple of students that still survived. Some sense of legacy left. His story is just TOO depressing for me personally.

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He was teased in Empire and showed his power and mastery in Jedi which in turn drove Darth Vader's character development.

Snoke didnt even have to be there.

he had his phases of actual jedi to regular married guy with capeshit goku powers, depending on what story they want to tell.

This has been my opinion on Kylo for a while. I don’t even know if the quote is legit, it’s accurate to my opinion. To me, no matter how “deep” or “complex” or “conflicted” a villain is, they have to function as a villain. They’re the dragon the hero has to slay to read the princess, they’re the opposition and if they’re a laughable opposition, it really undermines the struggle the heroes face.

It WAS a good idea.
Just because the name is goofy doesn't mean its not a good idea.

So? That’s a you problem. I’ll take what I can get with this franchise because I don’t just toss aside things I love because of one movie. Zahn is still writing great Star Wars books despite being in the Disney canon. Maybe learn to appreciate good things while disregarding the bad. It’ll make you a happier person.

The creator gave his blessing and that should be respected. You can pick and choose if you want but it is only from the canon overseen by Lucas that you can truly piece together the true story of Star Wars

How do you people keep talking about star wars? What the fuck is there even left to say anymore? When I see another star wars thread, it genuinely just drops my mood and makes me feel tired, it feels like when the annoying kid in class made another blueberry muffin kind of joke. You know it's going to happen again, but he's too void of awareness to stop. You'd think you'd have grown out of this shit by now.

>dickriding George fucking Lucas this hard

The Hand of Thrawn books were some of the worst licensed genre fiction I've ever read
>Half of the book is spent giving every side character from the EU a specific mission and spent jumping around between them around as they try to accomplish it
>Absolutely zero resolution or pay off for the majority of them because the book is already too long and everyone gets called back for the big epic showdown.

>what if the emperor had like a side apprentice that was a smokin' hot badass assassin and that had a mission that didn't make any sense within the context of emperor's plans in the movies and then she beat up luke and they fug
I wonder why Lucas didn't like this character.

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Regardless of what people think, Legends had years upon years of continuity that was flushed down the toilet when disney took over. To be fair, much of the continuity was very bloated. It was clear that over the years that none of the writers were really talking to each other and if they were talking to each other, it likely didn't mean much. There are some fantastic Legends stories like the Thrawn trilogy and the X-Wing series as pointed out by the other user. But Legends still had its fair share of garbage stories like the Dark Empire crap and all that Yuuzhan Vong shit. The Yuuzhan Vong in particular sets me off as it felt more like something from Star Trek than Star Wars. Even the Old Republic content felt strange as those stories are meant to take place thousands of years in the past yet all the technology looks more advanced than that from the Original Trilogy. When disney took over, they wanted their Canon to be more consistent and more in line in what Star Wars is really supposed to be. But in reality, they completely threw their attempts out the window in their quest to sell more toy and generate profit. Star Wars is a very mixed bag.

>the true story of Star Wars
Did you know the "true" story of star wars literally ends at the credits of Return of the Jedi?
At that point Lucas is quoted as saying "The universe ends at this point".

You forgot the wojak edit.

>a lot of the novels read like bad fanfiction

I liked Dark Empire. Fight me.

Writing Star Wars books for a living is tragic

>It WAS a good idea.
Elaborate.

I wont if you agree Yuuzhan Vong was shit

Yes and no. Remember the representation of the Jedi we get in the OT is Obi-Wan who gives up on Anakin and is ready to sentence him to death. Luke, by being a more human character, succeeds where he failed and saves his father's soul. Then you have the prequels that seem to expand on this idea by showing the Jedi as quite a flawed and emotionally repressive organisation in many ways.

It's the scary kind of cringe...

>this guy has visible buttons that anyone can press
THAT'S THE POINT BASED RETARD
How can a professional writer miss shit so obvious?

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>The universe ends at this point

More or less tragic than writing Alien books?

>>The only person who can define those things is its original creator
>Lets just assume this for the moment. That makes the old EU still canon because Lucas approved every one of those books. And didn't approve the new Disney books.
No he didn't and the umbrella category of the "Expanded Universe" quite literally came from Lucas making a clear delineation between the movies and the books. The most input George ever gave was on the NJO books and that was to tell them who they couldn't kill off.

Eh. I never read it.
I dropped the EU when they killed off Chewbacca.

I'm not saying I like everything he does, or everything that happens to him. The basic idea to treat him as a more relatable figure than the generic wise old wizard is something I'm down with though.

I actually did like them and that arc but it was way more science fiction than Star Wars ever needed to be and I understand why fans hated it. The Unifying Force was a pretty solid way to cap off the stories of Luke, Han, and Leia though.

the point is that he didn't want a villain to be a whiny bitch boy with buttons that can be easily pushed. he wanted another vader.

You realize that Lucas had to approve writers to write books about Star Wars right?
If Lucas says yes, that story is canon.

too bad that doesn't matter now.

You're so retarded that we can't tell if you mean the guy from the Outbound novels since you spelled it like that or Joruus who was a villain

No he didn't. His company and Bantam/Del Ray Books did, you silly goose. These mental gymnastics to try to undo Lucas stating clearly that the books aren't canon is exhausting to read.

understandable
I am glad that you recognize why its disliked by some portions of the fanbase

I liked the Yuuzhan Vong series simply for the scale and certain other things. It brought together so much of that lore from previous books, for the first time it seemed like every planet and character in the galaxy were really joined in this once huge conflict. You had the Ssi-Ruuk returned to, same with the Yevetha, the Empire, the Hutts, Boba Fett, Zonama Sekot, Irek Ismaren, and so many other minor things even if they didn't get a time to shine got acknowledged that they exist.

And the length of it and multiple authors was really something unique and special, even if it led to some dropped plot points and inconsistencies.

Then why not rewatch the original trilogy? Nuwars is shit but you can"t win with these people. Make it similar and there's a problem, don't follow the previous characters and there's a problem.

I don't consider Disney Wars canon.

>We intentionally made him unthreatening and easy to mock!

4D chess right there.

Imagine if they killed off Chewie in a novel in this current iteration of the fanbase. People would go fucking apeshit. I imagine some people were pretty pissed back then too.

The Legacy of the Force books were 4x worse than the Yuuzhan Vong books.

No more tragic than the people who buy these books.

>wow this guy forgot to put an extra U in the name which completely changes the character and demonstrates a unique naming convention invented by a brilliant author
i'm not the guy you were replying to so save the (You)s

I haven't read the Vong arc, but the idea of a greater threat from outside of the known galaxy seems like a solid idea, once you've exhausted the potential of what lies within that Galaxy. You have to do something to up the ante when a franchise just keeps going on and on.

People were pissed. But it was also impressive that it took a moon falling on him to kill Chewie.

This works if hes the underling to the main bad guy. The flawed character who we can be sympathetic to. Not as the main villain himself. Thats Zahn's point.

Imagine seeing that on film. It would look as ridiculous as Leia Poppins.

good for you. your opinion of what is and isn't canon doesn't impact the reality that disney and the lucas story group are the ones dictating what is and isn't canon now.

Anybody who gives a fuck about "canon" in a way that forces them to enjoy or hate something needs religion in their life because they're struggling to find direction and a purpose.

Who gives a fuck about how something connects to something else. Either the story is good or the story is bad.

The Thrawn trilogy is pretty good, mainly Thrawn himself. The current Thrawn books are good, again, because Thrawn is a good character. I don't give a fuck about how they fit into the canon or whether or not they "matter." They matter to me because I like Thrawn. I have a feeling George never gave a fuck either since he allowed pretty much anything to be published then just picked and chose things he liked to put in the prequels.

if one doesn't just have a headcanon of what they like of the material then they're just autistic drones. for me only the OT and the EU past ROTJ is 'canon'.

This.

Doesn't matter to me cause I don't give them money.
If only people would do that instead of going "just in case it gets better", Disney would be broke now.

>if you care about star wars canon you need to care about religious canon instead
religious shit is even worse when it comes to muh canon

People's attitude to "canon" is strange to me. The way I see it, each work decides it's own canon. The PT or Disney are not necessarily canon to Thrawn, but the OT is definitely canon to Thrawn, since Thrawn was written on the basis that the OT was a thing that happened.

Also as far as the quality of the Yuuzhan Vong books go, Nom Anor was still one of the best villains Star Wars has ever had.

Ironically they already were in the process of killing the bloat. The Vong has b particularly killed 80% of the EU and then they decided the Solos only needed a daughter and axed Jacen. I lost interest when they turned my favorite character into a Sith Lord and killed him because they’d made him Overpowered and the fans were sick of him. It’s why I didn’t care when the EU went kaput.

The new books are written in a similar way. They could mostly fit into the "old" canon or the Disney one depending on how you want them to. The only movie from the new stuff it directly relates to is Rogue One with Krennic.

This is the proper way to do licensed tie-ins. You can tell the story you want to tell and appease the autists at the same time.

Is Chewbacca really that important of a character to be upset over his death? these new films show the character is worthless on its own without han.

the way you see it only comes into play when the people in charge of the IP aren't strictly enforcing what they want the canon story to be.
SW, for the duration that it is under Disney's control, does not work the way you want it to.

I think he gets the point the issue is they did not take it anywhere they're just running in circles. Even him killing Snoke did not really progress his character because we had no idea what their relationship really was in the first place.

They really fucked up the story.

Chewie was the favorite character for a lot of people. Very popular.

That only matters if you're invested in your preferred canon receiving new stories.

it was a good step up from the warlord/superweapon-of-the-week plots of the post-Thrawn eu books

Except it does, because Disney can't decide how I think. Disney controls how things are produced, but I control the way I consume.

at least then it matters, as its about salvation. star wars is nothing but wasted time.

Its quips. When Poe quips to Kylo the first time he appears in the first nuWars film it set the tone that hes not dangerous and that his is a safe flick for kids. Kylo should have tortured Poe to death in that scene then maybe the nuTrilogy could have become kino

>>what if the emperor had like a side apprentice that was a smokin' hot badass assassin and that had a mission that didn't make any sense within the context of emperor's plans in the movies and then she beat up luke and they fug

You forgot

>She was actually in every major scene in the original trilogy, including Jabba's sail barge, but she was such a SUPER COMPETENT ASSASSIN that you couldn't see her, but we assure you, she was in the original trilogy the whole time.

Mara Jade? More like Mara SUE!

How the hell was Jacen ever your favorite character?

I consider the OT canon to Disney, but Disney non-canon to the OT.

Why though, he can't even talk? I'm not being facetious here, I'm curious.

whether you consume the new movies or book or not, they are all still canon to SW. the franchise could lose 100% of it's fans who buy things, but as long as LF/Disney pumps shit out, it will still be canon.
Disney canon will go on without you and without all the fans that were ""spurned"" by TLJ.

He was supposed to but they decided Oscar Isaac was too good in the role so they let him live.

Considering how many people got exaggeratedly outraged over Admiral Ackbar’s death, yes. They only gave a shit about him because memes and it was more fuel to the fire of TLJ hatred.

You have to laugh at the people suddenly saying the talking fish meme was some beloved character lol.

He was "too good" in the role that was supposed to be just a quip and then being killed off?

I'll do you one better: there is no "true" story of Star Wars, there is no "real" canon, because it's all FUCKING FICTION.

It was one of the most retarded criticisms I saw of that movie. No one gave a shit about him until they were told they had to be outraged.

He was too good of an actor to be wasted on a character that dies so they expanded his role and let him live.

Holy shit dubs of truth, Lucas is absolutely based

>and hopefully, that will get better.
this is the part where they made him say a good thing about Nu Wars

I don't see why they have more authority on what "canon" Star Wars is than I do. I mean, I could potentially make billions of dollars, buy Star Wars and declare it all "officially non-canon". It's kind of nonsense, when you break it down. It's all just stories, and no piece of it is any more real than any other piece. If Disney considers something canon, all that means to me is they will take it into account when writing their stories, and I don't care, because all of their stories are bad.

>for me, it's believing whatever a bunch of fat kikes tell me to believe is canon
You can just literally not do that. You can just enjoy whatever stories you want and ignore what you don't like.

>The prequels blow ass.
How the golden age of Star Wars blow ass?

>I don’t think Kylo Ren is a very compelling villain.
The way he was written in TFA was setting him up for a turn.
I was hoping rey was going to end up being a false protagonist and the two characters switch roles.
Would have at least been different.

>prequels
>golden age of Star Wars
Pick one.

You got me. Han was always my favorite character.

Based retard

Yes? just admit you never liked Star Wars and just like two movies from the 80

>this is a safe flick for kids
You thought Star Wars was for mature adults?

He’s in the perfect position to criticise an unstable villain done badly, because C’baoth is one done right.
He had enough displays of power to feel like a threat despite the fact he almost never fought anyone directly, showed enough cunning an intellect in his lucid periods to make his own scheming seem natural, and his mood swings felt like something that had to be carefully worked around as a result. It meant that they worked with his menace, rather than rendering him a laughable man child.

she was too beautiful for Star Wars like she's not from that universe but a model from our earth

I love TPM, fucking hate AOTC, tolerate ROTS even though I hate the execution of Anakin’s turn. Yes, ANH and ESB are the best ones. In no way are the prequels the golden age.

Kylo fags irrevocably BTFO

>Make it similar and there's a problem
Making a shitty version of the story that's already been done better was the problem, retardo.

Yes they literally were and the fact that you didn't say nothing about the Darkhorses comics, the clone wars show or the games prove you never bothered with the franchise apart from the movies

RotJ might actually be my favourite. It's fun. Sue me.

no wonder, you only take the movies into account.
the videos games and shitty comics are what made the prequel era great.

ya same, I can't understand anyone without autism having a fundamentally non-social character as their favorite.

Luke v. Vader was the best scene in the entire OT. It felt intense, impactful, and full of emotion. The music was perfect.

>He
So basically same thing as Snoke who was teased in TFA and then killed off to drive Kylo’s character development.

R2 was my favourite.

The whole trilogy lost any semblance of tension or stakes when Rey fucking clowned him in the very first movie.

It'd be like Luke beating up Vader in the first movie. Just a monumentally stupid decision.

>b-b-but he was injured and emotional

It was still stupid.

>the new films that make all the OT cast worthless show Chewbacca is worthless!
Ok, mouse.

>. Even the Old Republic content felt strange as those stories are meant to take place thousands of years in the past yet all the technology looks more advanced than that from the Original Trilogy.
That's because Bioware and then they made it even worse with the MMO making the republic into clone troopers and the sith into the non empire

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>Jabba's palace
>Luke at the top of his game
>throne room scene
>space battle
>the Ewoks are entertaining
It's a good movie.

KotOR and it's sequel were great. This has been scientifically demonstrated.

>bitchy, abrasive, has a major persecution complex, self pitying, vindictive and selfish
>only actually liked by two people for the majority of the books, and Luke only did because he had the patience of a saint
>got mindfucked by Sheev so hard that she wasn’t deluded into thinking she was special
>actually trusted Thrawn to keep his word
>fucks up a choke so badly that Thrawn initially assumed he’s done his collar up too tight
Whatever might have been done to her later, in the original book trilogy she was fine.

Kotor 2 yes, Kotor 1 is meh and that doesn't change that Bioware butchered the Era aesthetic with Kotor 1

The problem with the injured excuse is that it still doesn’t change the fact it actually happened, and the choreography doesn’t reflect it in the slightest.
If he was barely staying alive, and still fucked up Finn and nearly killed Rey, that excuse might fly.

>comics
Literally couldn’t give less of a fuck about them
>Clone Wars show
Which one? The good one or the puppet show? (I watched everything from the latter and it was 90% shit. 10% was pretty great.)
>Games
This isn’t Yea Forums. But I’ll humor you. I love Jedi Outcast, OG Battlefront (OG Battlefront 2 blows ass and I don’t know why people hold that game in high regard.),and Episode I Racer are the only good games from that era (no I’m not forgetting KOTOR)
Hardly.

>Literally couldn’t give less of a fuck about them
>This isn’t Yea Forums
so you admit to never bothering with the franchise apart from the movies and 3 games

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>Timothy Zahn
>Based
Not since he went full Disney. His new books suck. Thrawn is a God, Padme (yes he put fucking Anakin and Padme in a story) is written as Mara Jade, there are a shitload of women suddenly working for the Empire, and the villains are all white men. His original books were great, but nu-Wars is just garbage.

I’ve played most of the Star Wars games that came out in the 90s to now. Most of them aren’t remarkable at all. And no, I don’t give a fuck about comic books.

Because Zahn was writing a sci-fi/fantasy story, not a diversity piece for Californian faggots who never liked SW.

Remember when cuck related had such a high opinion of himself that he started the first nuWars book (Tarkin doesn't count) by shitting on Zahn

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Let me guess.... white male? EVERY. TIME.

>Jacen was a kid who liked animals, told bad jokes and had the hots for an Amazon.
>I was a kid who liked animals, told bad jokes and had the hots for Amazons.
I never said he was a good character, but I identified with him the most.

I wonder how much creative control he actually had working for a company famous for maintains creative control hmm.

>written as Mara Jade
How?

>tfw no movie about a three band war about the Black Sun, The Hutts and the Zann consortium fighting to take control of the galaxy after the empire is no more
just too much potential wasted

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So do I. Parts of the new books read like someone else wrote it.

Lucas' garbage work with the prequels is what paved the road for Disney to come in and buy the franchise. Fuck him.

>villains are all white men
Gee, that's never happened in Star Wars before the Mouse

>he doesn't know
hutts are all reliant on jabba existing in nucanon. with him dead the entire hutt empire crumbles instantly into infighting and imperials/rebels/pirates taking over their territories.
your vision wouldn't ever happen in disney canon.

Why do söyboys make this face?

Congratulations, you're more retarded than Kotor and The Force Unblorglebargled wankers combined.

Padme is suddenly a rogue, a soldier, and infiltrator. She's independent, capable, and convincing other people what to do. This was Mara. Padme barely has a character.

>Zann Consortium
So overpowered it's not even funny

But user, of course the average user isn’t as well educated as KOTOR fans.

This is a problem with almost every character frankly. Movie bias is so huge in the old EU that new characters all had to be connected to the OT somehow

How is that in any way out of line with Padmé's character in Legends and Clone Wars?

>No empire or republic left
>all the criminals cartels have enough fleets to take entire systems
>huurrr hurr you dumb I love cum
?

You forget literally the best Star Wars game there is: TIE Fighter.

The real sad part is he never wanted to do the prequels himself.
He just wanted to produce, but he has pissed off the writers and directors guild years ago, and had a hard time finding anyone who would not only cross the line, but take the responsibility of making ANOTHER star wars.
Spielberg told him that he should just do it himself, and he half assed it, more interested in pushing tech forward then working on the writing and directing.

>independent
>relies on Emperor’s power
>capable
>when her entire arc is learning she isn’t as capable as she believes
>convincing
>most hate her pre-character development besides Luke, all loving that he is, and a few others

KOTOR fans are 30-year-old boomers who pretend KOTOR wasn't mediocre out of false nostalgia.

She literally did that in The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.

>Mara Jade
>Mary Sue
>gets beaten and tortured, constantly proven wrong, failed every mission she attempted alone, saved by Luke three times and etc.
If Mara Jade was shown to an SJW, they would go ballistic.

It was great... for the time.

Disney really did everything in their hand to ruin Star Wars didn't they?

>Mara
>Sue
The same character that fucked to a force choke so bad that the target initially thought he’d done his collar up too tight? The one who was genuinely surprised when Thrawn backstabbed her despite knowing him? The one who seriously didn’t grasp that Palpatine might not be honest with her? The one who barely anyone actually likes because of her abrasive and arrogant nature?
That character?

>Legends and Clone Wars
Never watched that, but I can now assume the writers made Padme a rogue ('member Leia?!) because the movies failed to establish an engaging character.

that's why the EU related stuff to the OT was trash

>KOTOR fans are educated scholars who studied much philosophy and religion to understand the themes and arguments presented in the games
Fixed

fuck off faggot your meme character is as worthless as anything disney puts out

I miss him

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>pushing tech forward
I never got his. The prequels look like shit. Avatar and The Matrix pushed tech forward, and they at least look good.

Mara's whole point is that she *thinks* that she's a mary sue, but she's factually just a mid-tier goon with deliberately stoked delusions of grandeur. Her entire character arc is realizing that she doesn't have to be a super special edgy loner

>The first time Kylo Ren had a tantrum on screen, my first thought was that this guy has visible buttons that anyone can press. Thrawn would have this guy for lunch!

This is what I don't get they haven't elaborated on. Everyone on the Empire side given screen time is incompetent, and the Rebels aren't that much better. Kylo Ren doesn't really come off as a villain. Just an antihero brooding on the bad guys side. Unstable, but still easily manipulated and provoked. But there's no one there written for that obvious role.

No Big Bad on that side to give the drama impetus, weight, and direction. No shrewd imperial admirals trying to divy up space by manipulating dark forces, no ambitious Sith underlings out to seize control in a massive power vacuum, no dark master pulling nefarious strings from the shadows. Especially with the death of Snoke, who got thrown out like a side villain in the TLJ, despite the open-ended buildup. He accomplished nothing.

You're left with a dude that just has tantrums, and everybody awkwardly shrugs it off and stays out of the way, ignoring it. No ploys, no intrigue, no conflict.

All in all, the Disney series is just the First Order and the Rebels chasing each other in bumfuck space, while the rest of the galaxy does whatever without them, apparently. But I guess that's what happens when you say you're gonna do a trilogy, but are only willing to make it up as you go without planning it all out first.

>I never got his.
see any doc about the prequels to see how much George changed the entire Cinema with the prequels tech

She isn't a Mary Sue in the Zahn books but she is in several books afterword.

The Matrix used CGI very sparingly, and the CGI also hasn't aged too well. Avatar came out a decade later.

>he doesn’t know the things Lucas pioneered in the prequels

Are you kidding? TIE Fighter is literally still the best star wars game. There is no other game that even comes close.

>but she is in several books afterword

>KOTOR fans are Reddit Kubrick fans
Fixed.

To each their own, I guess.

So Lucas is to blame for the capeshit we now have?

>KOTOR fans are far too educated for R*ddit
Fixed.

underages detected. Ackbar was popular because he was essentially the only menorable rebel officer outside of the big 3 and Lando not just for le meme time dont talk about shit that was before your time.

Funny thing is these books were generally accepted to be canon until the sequel movies came out.

Why don’t they give Rey a lightsaber pike?

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24. Child of the prequel era. Ackbar is a fucking meme. It’s like caring if Captain Tarpals got killed off screen.

>flawless
Oh. Is that why TZ killed him off on the third book?

based and old republicpilled
cringe and underagepilled

except there was only really 3 films to go on and Ackbar was essentially the only memorable rebel character and was a central figure in the best space battle in the series at the end of RoTJ.

Jesus. That's a lot of mindless regurgitation in a single post. Have you ever had an original thought? Are you even capable of it?

>book's
>'s

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Worst of EU was still leagues better than current SW

/thread

the thrawn garbage was supposedly the best eu shit out there and i had the misfortune of reading two of them

absolute trash prose

>He seems to lose every fight he’s in.

kinda like thrawn literally every fight. what a joke

She didn’t get in the Sail barge.Jabba wouldn’t let her go.

>flawless
he's clearly not.
Bel Iblis was his strategic peer, and Ackbar actually beat him when his ambush became a fair fight.
He vastly underestimated the Jedi, and disregarded Pellaeon's warnings about C'baoth being increasingly uncontrollable.
He tried to fuck over Kaarde despite dealing fairly being a better option, then again when he tried damage controlling Ferrier's fuck up rather than just ignoring them.
He completely ignored the Nohgri's culture outside the bare minimum, which let Leia take them out from under him, and ultimately got him killed.

You're missing the point, retard

>make unstable character that's easily manipulated and prone to provocation
>have no antagonists in the story that can take advantage of that, or pull similar strings

And no, Snoke didn't really do shit but sit in a chair and yell at him before dying like a bitch in said chair, accomplishing nothing. All the other Imperials currently in the script are too chicken shit to do anything but shuffle off screen when he has a temper tantrum. No instigators, no drama between antagonists, just awkward white males whose sole purpose is to to project their own entitlement and toxic masculinity onto the big screen. Apparently.

It's a waste.

He’s literally no different than Captain Tarpals. Alien that leads his alien army against opposition in the final battle of one movie. No one would give a fuck about Tarpals unless “ouch time” became such a huge meme that it forced people to care.

Yep. Which is why I don’t like the prequels and don’t mindlessly regurgitate talking points about nu-Wars like 90% of you fuckers on here.

Retarded zoomer.

except tarpal existed with 20 years of lore and side characters while Ackbar existed when there was only 3 movies and any little kid who played with star wars toys didnt have as much choice when it came to rebel characters. Name a more memorable rebel character in the films that arent the big 3 and Lando he was popular because of his cool design and role in the final battle not because of le meme line.

Why is a 5 minute trailer better than multi-hour films?

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This! Thrawn made mistakes. That's what made him interesting, that's what created the tension. Now Thrawn is omnipotent and his victory is already certain at the start of the story. Fuck Disney.

People who like the prequels are literally following the marketing blitz of blog posts stating that the prequels have been redeemed because lightsabre fights/ring theory.

The prequels were bad. Get over it. Stop listening to a load of paid shills who have convinced you the prequels were good simply because of childhood nostalgia.

Zahn even pointed that out with the duology, which was essentially two books of *looks directly at the camera*
He was great at using and manipulating information, and won most of his battles because he held all the cards before even starting the fight, but he wasn't infallible.
The bit where he convinced himself that Kabarak was part of some deeply complex Republic plot was a key point to this. It wasn't unreasonable, but he fucked up because he didn't have all the information, and it's arguably his single biggest fuck up in the trilogy.

Darth Bane’s trilogy is fucking kino

Yeah. I honestly felt like that was what they were going for. Luke/Rey facing Snoke/Kylo. Luke apologizing and saying he was wrong for judging Kylo before he was sure, Snoke telling Rey she's the student to a failed master and tells her he can find her parents (possible Snoke being her father) and yadda yadda yadda. Could of been decent of not a little cliche. But infinitely better than the shit we got.

The problem is, if you're going to make three movies, you'd want to have some kind of framework for whats going to happen across the three movies, and not just play hot potato with mystery box horse shit.
>Who's snoke?
>DUDE LMAO I DON'T KNOW!

Their other leads were a child soldier stormtrooper turned into a comic relief janitor, and the most boring perfect lesson of what people dislike about Superman but a girl.
It was either fix these characters or just add in Poe.

funny part is when Disney took over, initially they said they were not going to kill legends. Then they said they would cull it to keep the best parts. And then they said they would remove it all outright. A very clever and dishonest way of minimizing the disruption and spreading the backlash out over time.

The thing is, the saving grace of Legends is that it wasn't all ONE continuity, there were different tiers and you had basicly historians at lucasfilm charged with cleaning it up and making sense of it, sometimes retconning retarded shit out. The horrible truth is that with Disney star wars "everything" is on the same level of canonicity, so when you fuck up, and disney fucks up all the time because they have no over sight and no overarching plan, it's there forever.

Both of these. Growing up it was always my favourite. As I got older I started to appreciate 4 and 5 more, but I never disliked 6

>he started the first nuWars book (Tarkin doesn't count) by shitting on Zahn
???
Explain?

Wedge. Easily.

starwars.com/news/the-emperor-is-coming-here-timothy-zahn-talks-thrawn-treason
>“My feeling is, if you give Thrawn perfect control and perfect information, he will always win. The way you defeat him is throw something he can’t control or throw something he can’t anticipate at him.”
Please defend this. I want to see you retards justify this hackneyed writing.

He's talking about Thrawn like he is Sun Tzu. Got to control the battlefield and make sure you have the best information. It isn't hackneyed writing, it is him basically saying that Thrawn is incredibly clever and precise like say, Napoleon, but lacks the adaptability to react to unknown situations, like invading Russia and the weather.

>being surprised when you give a competent military commander perfect control and perfect information and they win
Are you legitimately retarded?
The only thing more valuable than information to the military is logistics

He's the villain of a fantasy series. Is he not supposed to be powerful?

Thrawn sucks, hes a self insert for cheeto dust encrusted armchair tacticians. You know, the wehraboos who criticize films for "bad tactics"

He's fine. He was the bad guy you needed because you wanted to avoid ANOTHER super weapon.

While Johnson fucked up the Sequel Trilogy beyond salvaging, I think as much blame lies at JJ's feet. From what I understand, he initially never intended to come back. He set up a movie with his usual mystery box spiel, and then yelled "tag, you're it!" and ran away, instead of laying the groundwork that a trilogy needed, that back then had 6 movies of history + the animated series. He set that shit up to fail, instead of handling it responsively.

I feel like JJ, after he managed to break out as a director, has some sort of bucketlist of franchises that he wants to dabble and play with, but doesn't have what it takes to make a solid foundation and then he moves on to the next shiny thing. "Oh lol, I'll do Star Trek, reboot everything and retell the original shit, but slightly different and with more lens flare!" "What's that? I can do Star Wars now? Well, bye bye Treksuckers, I don't need your toys anymore!" "Hey, I heard you need a guy to direct a Superman movie?" I wouldn't be surprised, if he tried to movie on to Marvel, after he reimagined Superman or some other DC cornerstone.

Which is funny cause Wedge had less screen time than Ackbar.

>Thrawn would have this guy for lunch!
HAHAHA yeah, a character YOU created is "le ultimate badass!!1!11!!!"
Everything else, he's right about, but don't mention you're faggy character. Thrawn is worse than Xizor.

>Xizor.
I'm not saying I jerked off to leia dressing like a whore and getting IGUANAD in shadow of the empire or anything, but I might have.

>Thrawn is shit! He is a insert!
>Now General Hux HE IS A VILLAIN!

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He needed Luke to fight a final climactic lightsaber battle against SOMEONE. C'boath wasn't gonna do it, he was specced into almost pure TK, and the idea that all Jedi had to have melee specs hadn't been introduced from the prequels yet.

It isn't JJ's fault. It is Disney. TLJ was being written before TFA even finished. So of course it ignores most of TFA.

I think he just wants a cut of merchandising royalties from all of the big properties.

Hux is the personification of people who think Thrawn is cool

If you want to shit on armchair generals, grasping the difference between tactics and strategy should be your first priority.

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No he isn't.

People who hate Thrawn as a bad ass just want bad comedy characters like Kylo/Hux as their villains.

>Scrawny ginger cunt in a suit too big for him
Ohhhh! What a rogue! I bet kids want to buy this action figure.

Which is fucking hackneyed. There's nothing clever or the least bit subtle about "this guy can out-think us all." To the point of literally saying in his books "If you put my donut steel smart man in the final battle he would've won." This is childishness at its peak.
Are you legitimately retarded? He's flat out saying Thrawn is the most smartest military man in all the Star Wars because he can always win if someone else doesn't fuck up.
Zahn profits heavily off the back of making OT characters slightly dumber and boobish in his books so that his original characters can come in and appear superior to them in resolution. "Palpatine's Battle Plan at the Second Death Star was flawed and I would've not done the same thing" is not making the character powerful because he comes up with a clever resolution to a situation, it's making him powerful because he is drawing a directly comparison to an already established character and leeching their efficacy, genius, prowess, etc.

>the only merit of a villain is how le epically badass they are

he also gave us Luuke

>the villain of this fantasy epic should be incompetent
This is the problem with the ST, you tards
>hurr durr, why can you only kill Sauron by throwing a ring in a volcano. He's so overpowered!

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Villains can't be villains if they aren't threatening. Even literal comedies understand this.

And to think, he's actually the strongest character in the Disney films...

I always thought it would have been cool if C'Boath was haunted by the 5 force ghosts of the Jedi killed on the outbound flight. Like they are all sitting in the back of his mind telling him to do conflicting things and its making him insane. The concept was thrown out in a throw away line but I felt like it could have been cool if it was developed further, with actual dialogue between the different ghosts and personalities

Palpatine is just evil incarnate. He's like Satan. Thrawn is not that character, but his big supervillain strength is tactical thinking. It's a tradeoff for not being able to throw lightning.

You're a fucking dumbass.
His point is that Thrawn's specialty is psychology and information, and if he has perfect control of both he will win.
What you're too retarded to grasp is that Thrawn never has and never will have either, and he died as a direct result of that

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This.

>Hurrr durrr I knew the enemy was going to do that because I studied his art for twenty hours

You are confusing "threatening" with them being "badass" and wanting to live vicariously through them

Heinrich Himmler organized the holocaust but he was a fucking wimp who turned tail and ran the second he Hd real military authority, Hitler was a famously bad military strategist and spent the last months of the war tweaked out on meth.

Most mass shooters are wimps but that doesnt mean they arent dangerous

I think that's where Kennedy het to take a big bite out of the blame pie. She's not really interested in Star Wars from a story POV. That's ok, not everyone is Kevin Feige and a fan of the material he oversees. But it's her fault that she didn't see the necessity to get someone to keep the big picture in mind from a creative perspective. She got singular directors and thought "I'll let them do their thing, what could go wrong?". And I still think it's a big mistake that they tried to make all media in nuWars part of the canon. That was retarded and is as manageable as an open box of flies. Should have kept canon to the cinematic universe plus maybe tv series and everything else is just "the idea pool". That way, could even have left the EU alone instead of raising their first shitstorm right after they purchased the rights to SW, as it would have been just a bunch of more stories to possibly adapt for tv or the big screen, if proven successful and loved by fans and simply ignore otherwise.

true i forgot about wedge but like the other user said he has even less screen time than ackbar and wedge became popular because of rogue squadron not the films themselves like ackbar

Maybe you haven't watched Star Wars before? Look Star Wars is about archetypes. Hero, villain, rogue, wise old sage, princess. The villains are MEANT to be intimidating. You can't expect a movie to spend half its run time on making the villains deep and complex. This isn't supposed to be literature. These films literally birthed the modern blockbuster.

Watch Star Wars. a minute in, you know who is good and who is bad. These are meant to be forgettable sci fi fantasy movies. And here you are complaining that the villain motivation is weak. You're reading too deeply into something that is meant to be surface level and fun.

If you want to read something indepth, do that.

Nothing to do with the post itself but I’m stealing this reaction pic. Fucking brilliant.

He sounds like a fanboy who convinced himself that his own theories were the only possible way things could have gone.

Kylo is a fine villain. He's the opposite of Thrawn, he isn't Vader II or Palpatine... but believe it or not, there is more than one type of villain.

You zoomers never read this, so here is a take on Zahn:
>movie characters keep saying "point" at the end of their sentences
>Luuke
>all of Thrawns predictions are correct (no matter how batshit insane they are or how little info he has) because he studied a cultures art

Wedge was similar to Boba Fett.
Both had limited screen time, both had limited lines, but they managed to get a lot of notice by inference and a few select actions.
Wedge survived 2 death star runs and was the first guy to take out an AT-AT, while Boba Fett was the guy who Vader had to personally warn to not use excessive force and later outmaneuvered Han Solo

>>movie characters keep saying "point" at the end of their sentences
You missed out the script constantly saying countered/conceded no matter what context they're in
>>Luuke
2 pages
>>all of Thrawns predictions are correct (no matter how batshit insane they are or how little info he has) because he studied a cultures art
Except the one he fucked up so badly his clone facility got destroyed, or the one that fucked his ambush up, or the one that directly led to his bodyguard murdering him.

>ysalamiri
/of fucking thread

This is such a reductive way of viewing the franchise holy shit

And you could establish that tactical genius in much less sophmoric ways then approaching the character with the mindset "he's blue batman" or by opening your book with a monologue about how he would've beat the rebels with just the tip of his 300IQ mind-cock. Every shits on the hyperspace ram, justifiably so, from TLJ but conveniently forget Thrawn was doing insane bullshit like trapping people on planets by using tractor beams to move asteroids into their orbit and stupid shit like that.
I get what his point is completely. What I don't get is how people find a character like that to be the least bit interesting to read about.
>it's meant to be childish
Having a black and white morality and clearly defined archetypes doesn't justify lazy writing. Vader was intimidating because a multitude a thought from people much smarter than Timothy Zahn went into every aspect of his character and every second of his screentime. His costume design, ferocity, redubbing, shot framing, composition and sound design, alluded backstory, and inherent mystery surrounding his "religion" all went into making him feel powerful and intimidating. He wasn't intimidating because a character walks out and says "Yo this guy is scary" or says "You think that guy is scary. This guy is like 10x scarier than him."

Your autism isn't anyone else's problem

Yes, the golden age of star wars where everything was golden besides the films at the center of it. Fucking aces

>He's the opposite of Thrawn
Yeah. He's incompetent.

>There just doesn’t seem to be a sense of real danger
That's because he's not the danger, he's the bad boy love interest.

Example #54 why Zahn is a hack. But for some people, magically force immune bad guys are okay when Zahn does it.

>i can't defend my point which means ur wrong
This ironically does give me an answer. The people that think Zahn is a good writer are people who are too fucking stupid to explain why they feel a certain way.

Problem is "the danger" got killed off in the TLJ for shock value and now we have a 3rd movie in need of a plot. Some trilogy this is.

>Trapping people on planets by using tractor beams to move asteroids into their orbit and stupid shit like that.
That was pretty clever though. Just imagine kessler syndrome from hell on a planet where apartment blocks are in low orbit.
It ties down the leadership of the government because they're stuck dealing with a humanitarian crisis at home as the planet starts to starve without resource drops.
Oh all goofy shit you could have picked that he did, that's not one of them.
Also bonus points for realizing that a cloaking device that hides you from external EM radiation also means you're blind as a bat as long as the cloak is on.

I think he way he did was quite clever actually. It was worked into evolution.
They project a force dead zone around them to avoid predators.

Films were unironically fun. You gonna complain your campy space opera about space wizard samurai didn't have a compelling love story?

When you have a universe where a certain number of wizards who can tap into the fabric of reality are hanging around, you kind of need to find ways to limit that if you don't want to tell stories that just end with "and then Luke force fucked him". There's always a kryptonite when the hero reaches a certain power level.

>reductive
You're arguing about a fun movie and getting autistic about it.

Star Wars is a mix of things. Little of Dune and other sci fis. Hero with a Thousand Faces. Kurosawa. Built into a science fantasy about hero archetypes and themes.

> Vader was intimidating because a multitude a thought from people much smarter than Timothy Zahn
in the first film he is portrayed as a henchmen to Tarkin. Only later in the sequels did they give him more depth.

Is the Thrawn trilogy perfect? No. But it got people back into Star Wars and created a huge buzz around the Franchise. Thrawn was decent because he was a villain not yet seen in the Star Wars universe who could out think his opponents. It was interesting. Not perfect though.

You're the kind person who thinks Lucas had a grand plan. In the prologue to a New Hope book Lucas wrote that the Emperor was a puppet of powerful people and basically a figurehead. Before ROTJ Lucas talked about the love triangle between Luke/Leia/Han before obviously making Luke/Leia related when he made that film. The writing has changed constantly. There was no grand plan.

You're trying to say that Zahn is a hack, so was Lucas, but they both made alright stories that audiences enjoyed.

Only for the Lore and the background they were miles above to anything, this is something Disney didn't learn if you fuck up your lore you fuck up your franchise if you don't care about it why would the fans?

The word is that Arndt had trouble writing Luke into the script too.

It was fucking stupid.
It was so fucking stupid that even the EU writers never used it again.

yeah characters like wedge, ackbar and boba fett are EU/childrens imagination fodder wedge got really popular after the rogue squadron series

As someone that was actually alive at the time, Wedge was really popular before Rogue Squadron.
For the same reasons as Boba Fett.

>ysalamarys
>stupid
ree more faggit snowflake force shitter

Why is it stupid?

I picked that to illustrate that Zahn made the character appear smart by breaking rules that the audience was conscious existed. In the 5000ish years of space combat in the Star Wars universe are we expected to believe the "lets move these rocks over there" strategy was invented by the blue meme man? Much like the hyperspace ram, this is such an obvious idea for besieging planetary bodies (a presumably common occurance during interplanetary wars) that the believability goes out the window for there not to be countermeasures in place for this situation or for characters to not believe what they're witnessing. Thrawn is made smart by Zahn dumbing every other character down.

I mean, they were cloaked asteroids. Cloaking technology that was experimental and that nobody had really found a good use for before.

>you kind of need to find ways to limit that if you don't want to tell stories that just end with "and then Luke force fucked him"
Every other EU author that wrote books outwide of the NJO told stories that didn't require that plot hole spackle. Hundreds of them, in fact.

And how many of those stories are memorable and amounted to more than another force user vs force user conflict?

>Why is it stupid?
Why was it completely unknown before Heir to the Empire? The idea of being some Force blocker is fucking stupid midichlorian shit. The Force is mystical, not something that is measured in a lab or has to do with evolution.
The ysalamiri evolved to counter the vornskr(sp?) that was some Force-hunter species, but the Force is everywhere according to Yoda, it surrounds us.

>Why was it completely unknown before Heir to the Empire?
Because we only had three movies to work with for lore building.

>in the first film he is portrayed as a henchmen to Tarkin.
Are you implying that this meant Vader wasn't intimidating in ANH? Because you're probably the only person to believe that.
>You're the kind person who thinks Lucas had a grand plan.
No I'm not but I understand you need to strawman here to perpetuate your losing argument.
>You're trying to say that Zahn is a hack, so was Lucas, but they both made alright stories that audiences enjoyed.
I'm not trying to say that. I am saying that. Whatever you feel about Lucas' talent, this is completely independent from my argument. So don't resort to whataboutism.

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>be random force user in Mirk
>be hunted by vornskr easy, so you won't never discover the ysalamiri and how they can make death force zones
>a normal guy never would know this because they would need some force training and at most would feel odd around these lizards
it's not that hard

i mean that wedge was more ackbar levels of popular and then rogue squadron elevated it even further to bobas level

This is true of any great tactician. What's supposed to be the problem here?

>Because we only had three movies to work with for lore building.
But the idea of introducing such a creature without any thought about how it went undetected in the previous movies is fucking stupid. You figured that during the Clone Wars the Emperor would have these things in breeding cages.

The Jedi and Yoda can detect shit all around the galaxy but they can't detect some fucking creature that is completely immune to the Force.
You sound insane. I read this shit in 93. It was shit then and it's shit now. Only the most hardcore EU fags even half-defended it.

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>Are you implying that this meant Vader wasn't intimidating in ANH? Because you're probably the only person to believe that.
No. I am saying he wasn't super well thought out and as planned as you made out. His concept was changed.

I am not strawmanning or using whataboutism. I am saying that the weaknesses in Zahn's writing are already present in Star Wars' writing under Lucas. But that both made enjoyable stories for audiences. You are demanding something of Zahn that you should also be demanding of Lucas.

>The idea of being some Force blocker is fucking stupid midichlorian shit. The Force is mystical, not something that is measured in a lab or has to do with evolution.

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No one knew what the Clone Wars was at the time, other than it was a war that involved clones.

I think it's obvious to everyone who is insane in this thread, my friend

The Force is an energy field created by all living beings. It is measurable and living beings maintain it.

Attached: Consider the OHOHOHO.jpg (1280x720, 136K)

Again I was alive at the time and Wedge was Boba Fett levels of popular.
Ackbar was not.

>No one knew what the Clone Wars was at the time
It was mentioned in the OT films you fucking moron.

it was mentioned but was expanded upon till later

>go to Myrk to see what are you sensing
>see absolute nothing because the ysalamiri make death force zones
>be killed by a pack of vornskr
I still don't see what's the problem the only way to discover these lizards is if you are not a force user but have some knowledge on the matter or discovering theirs power by accident

You are actually an idiot.
In the OT, all we knew about the Clone Wars was its name.

>The Force is an energy field created by all living beings.
Exactly. So the idea of vornskrs being able "hunt the force" is nonsense because it's everywhere. Thus the evolution of the ysalamiri is nonsense.
>It is measurable
No it isn't.

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>I am saying he wasn't super well thought out and as planned as you made out.
Every bit of behind the scenes footage and books says you're dumb in this regard.
>You are demanding something of Zahn that you should also be demanding of Lucas.
Quote a criticism I have of Zahn's writing that can apply to the OT. This is also whataboutism.