Literally no plot

...

The villains neither. If there is something 9/11 really ruined, it's movies. Since then, there was an enormous rise in fanatics and there is nothing more boring than a fanatic villain.

It's a metaphor about Jews

god-tier kino of the highest ordet

There is descriptive things you can say about the goals of characters in the movie, but none of its interesting and a lot it is conflicted due to the bad writing. For instance, the story seems to be confused on what the Penguin wants or what his motivation actually is, i'd argue the same for catwomen. This makes the main conflict of the plot boring.

For example, the movie on its surface seems to be telling you the penguin just wants to be accepted by the people of gotham because he was abandon by his parents for being deformed. In point, it seems the writers intended for him to fit the sympathetic villain archetype by having gotham turn on him after he thought they accepted him.

This way, the viewer will feel he's justified on some level to go for revenge and visibly see how stronger his resolve is from the betrayal, which all makes the plot conflict between him and the hero stronger allowing for stronger investment from the audience.

But on inspection, Penguin is displayed to be grotesque, murderous, crude, and lecherous from birth. You don't feel any sympathy when his parents throw him away because seconds after being born he eats the house cat hole, while caged, implying that this isn't first instance of evil he has done. And he's constantly played to be unlikable and just gross thru out. You can't help but feel his parents where right.

Not only that, it seems the whole angle about wanting acceptance from Gotham was a ruse from the start. He always planned to murder the first born regardless if he was accepted. I'm sorry but that's just not interesting, what if he really did change when he realized that Gotham was capable of accepting a freak like him...if that happened it would've made for a better story when they turned on him. There would be something there now.

And that's the whole thing about Returns from a story, plot, and character perspective, its simply not interesting. Its easily the most boring 90s batman movie for me to rewatch.

...

FACT: the tim burton batman films and raimi's spiderman 1 and 2 are GREAT films and the only capeshit worth watching.

based truthposter

And yet it's the best capeshit. Eat shit late millenial/zoomer.

Imagine being this retarded. The Penguin clearly had an agenda of becoming mayor and manipulating the citizens of Gotham for his own benefit.

There is a plot though, Penguin wants to kill little kids because he's butthurt and Batman needs to take him down.

There's just a whole lot of other shit going on.

nice blogpost idiot

>why hasnt perfection gotted better yet

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Only people with a certain high IQ and level of standards will truly understand what Batman Returns was about. It's not for simple-minded Nolan fans who try to be gritty for the sake of it.

Imagine being such a brainlet. Yes, Penguin probably wanted to murder the firstborn sons of Gotham when he first appeared. But then Schreck tempted him with becoming a mayor and Penguin fell for it. And then Schreck abandoned him and Penguin got a REAL hateboner for Gotham.

How is the story confused about Penguin? It is clear since start the he is an evil bastard who controls criminal circus group. Just because he pretetends to be a misunderstood freak doesn't mean he ever changed his bad ways. Why should bad guy have some redeeming features? Some people are just born assholes, simple as that.

>takes more than one line to explain the convoluted mess

Settle down, Warren Piece. Nobody wants to read your novel, they just want to be entertained for 90 minutes.

I think I'm gonna stream Batman and Batman Returns this weekend on cytube.

I'll make a thread to let people know ahead of time. We had a lot of fun watching the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles last weekend.

>tossed down the river (like moses)
>wants to kill all the first born sons
>has a huge hook nose
>Wants to bang blonde aryan woman
>used underhanded methods to gain political power in a big city
>defeated by wealthy WASP character on the Jesus was born
Ummmm....Tim sweetie , can we talk about this movie?

As much as I like Walken...it would have been better if Billy Dee came back as Dent
>the DA uses Penquin to over throw the current mayor because he saw him as too weak on crime / allowing batman to run amok
Selina would just be Dent's secretary and he gets "two faced" at the end when she gives him the electric kiss (that frys Max in the real movie)

>penguin and schreck bad, catowoman unsure

the whole plot is in the movie title. what happens in this movie? Batman returns.

The title I always found stupid. What is Batman returning from? Not like The Dark Knight Returns where Bruce gave up being Batman for years and then returned

My dear penguins, we stand on a great threshold! It's okay to be scared; many of you won't be coming back. Thanks to Batman, the time has come to punish all of God's children! First, second, third and fourth-born! Why be biased! Male and female! Hell, the sexes are equal with their erogenous zones BLOWN SKY-HIGH! FORWARD MARCH! THE LIBERATION OF GOTHAM HAS BEGUN!

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i haven't seen it in a while but is there any indication he fought any major villains between the films? maybe he "returned" to the public eye? everything else was done in the shadows. i agree though the the title sucks, he just "returns" to the box office. sounds better than batman 2 at least

returning to the big screen

christ, just stick to looney tunes or whatever then you retard

youtube.com/watch?v=Sb7TnpYigGE

Why is penguin's story an allegorical equivalent of moses?

>What is Batman returning from?
An absence of movies being played in theaters.

Are they demonic hidden secrets, or hidden demonic secrets?

Make up your mind!

Oh, sweaty...

why is this one guy nit picking everything so much? who on earth still gets upset about batman returns?!

why. she somehow makes that not hot.

3 years is hardly an absence from film especially back then. Cape shit wasn’t put out on an assembly line bases.

I know the WB wanted a sequel right away but Burton wasn’t interested until the forked up a lot of money

>what do you mean he gets an additional (You) every time I reply to his posts?!

Oh it had a plot. Like eight different ones and they all got ten minutes.

>How is the story confused about Penguin?

I just explained it, are you retarded? The writers seem to not be sure if they want you to sympathize with the penguin or not. Or at least the writers seem not to notice the scenes that conflict with their intended portrayal of Penguin, and I say this because they're so focused on the theme of how people who are different get treated harshly by society which makes me feel that they think that's the situation that the Penguin is in.

The movie doesn't talk about his parents in the sense that what they did was justified on some level or that there is an argument there, I get the feeling that those earlier moments of the film when he was a baby was played up and over stylized because that's burton's thing or maybe the writers are not implying he was a monster from birth and rather his parents were mis treating him from birth which is why he eat the cat.

Ether way its just not clear. But the core point is, assuming the sympathetic villain was the goal, it was done terribly because of this shoddy writing for the character.

Like I said, it would've been a lot more interesting if his goal of revenge on the high class society was initially dropped the moment he was wrong about Gotham City and how they view people who are different and that his motivation to be mayor was inspired by his wrong perception of gotham instead of what his reasoning in the movie which was just a chance to grope the goy women like some caricature of a lecherous old jew and to further his goal of getting back at high society.

If it went in this direction, it would've actually made shrek look like he was actually manipulating the penguin and gave penguin some weight when the city turned on him. All of which makes the core conflict stronger, which makes the movie better. As it stands now, there is literally nothing there, which brings me back to my main point, the movie is incredible boring on rewatch.

That's because you're gay.

>The writers seem to not be sure if they want you to sympathize with the penguin or not
Imagine being a zoomer who's too dumb to understand nuanced writing. In the future, all movies will have floating arrows pointing out which characters are good and which characters are evil so audiences don't get confused.

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you call him a brainlet but you could barely put together a sentence and you just ended up agreeing with him anyway

>wow you actually want a story with your cheesey superhero movie, you're just not SMART enough to enjoy failed blockbusters like me

You are a dumb fuck. Penguin was always a bad guy and writers never tried to portay him as a good guy. Why is it hard to understand that Penguin already had power in criminal world and he wanted more power in the normal world outside sewers? It is pretty clear that Penguin had completely lost his mind when he started to steal kids and had an army of suicide bombing penguins.

Burton Batman movies *are* the inferior ones.

Imagine being that much of a faggot.

What's up Nolan?

Seriously, his goofy shit undermines any threat from the Joker *and* the Penguin.

At least latex fetish Catwoman is hot.

One thing Nolan movies don't lack is plot. Plots within plots stacked on top of plots.

You're right. Schumacher made the most soulful Batman movies

omg goofy shit in Batman??? how could he! Btw Forever was there to show you what's hollywood goofy shit without soul, and let's not even talk about B&R.

nolans and burtons are both kino in their own ways
end your life

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>oh no, it's not a half page thesis
Yeha, fuck off, his whole assumption about audience expectation is wrong. Anyone with a iota of brainpower can deduce Penguin is up to no good from the get go and that this doesn't change one bit even when he plans to be a mayor.

Weird + funny = goofy, fun to watch. Schumacher.
Weird + dark = not. Burton.

I like camp. But Burton shits on Schumacher so much it's not even funny.

>We had a lot of fun watching the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles last weekend.
SHIT WHY DO I ONLY NOW HEAR OF THIS FUCK

>One thing Nolan movies don't lack is plot. Plots within plots stacked on top of plots.
Too bad they suck in every other aspect. And even that plot is pretty stupid.

>Penguin was always a bad guy and writers never tried to portay him as a good guy.

I have no idea why you keep raising this point. No one is arguing that he wasn't portrayed as bad you fucking idiot. the argument is how the movie thinks he got to that point. You can have a character who is portrayed bad and still have the audience see him as sympathetic depending on how he got to that state, and the movie's plot conflict hangs so heavily on what it thinks made penguin the person he is.

Wait, do you think its a random coincidence why he initially wants to murder all first born children of Gotham's high society???? Are you so low IQ you never actually paid attention to what the penguin's goal actually is.

Why are the niggers on here so fucking dumb??? Please, if you have an iq lower than 80, please don't respond to me. I rather faggots like you meme about reddit like the other low iq retards than have to respond to strawmans over and over again.

Penguin's death scene with the penguins carrying him into the water made me cry as a kid.

Why does anything even remotely old rev zoomers so much?

Because they’re raised on soulless capeshit like the MCU.

>But then Schreck tempted him with becoming a mayor and Penguin fell for it.

Schreck thought he tempted him. But in actuality Penguin never dropped his plan to murder the first born children of Gotham's rich. So he was still planning to kill Shreck's son and presumably the mayor position would only be temporary until then.

So Shreck was the one who was actually getting played in the instance. Which shouldn't be surprising, Shreck is an idiot in the movie. Remember what he said when batman revealed his identity to him. Penguin was the real end boss, Shreck was just a plot device for Catwomen.

>We had a lot of fun watching the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles last weekend.
>SHIT WHY DO I ONLY NOW HEAR OF THIS FUCK
Honestly, it was so much fun, I might stream TMNT (1990) again this Friday evening around 9pm Yea Forums time and then do Batman/ Batman Returns on Saturday.

I knew the movie was fucking garbage when Batman tried to convince Catwomen that killing was bad after he spent the entire movie killing. Its like the writers didn't give a fuck. Far as i'm concerned, this isn't a batman movie, this a burton freak fest. Fucking hack can only make 1 type of movie.

>Schreck thought he tempted him. But in actuality Penguin never dropped his plan to murder the first born children of Gotham's rich. So he was still planning to kill Shreck's son and presumably the mayor position would only be temporary until then.

>So Shreck was the one who was actually getting played in the instance. Which shouldn't be surprising, Shreck is an idiot in the movie. Remember what he said when batman revealed his identity to him. Penguin was the real end boss, Shreck was just a plot device for Catwomen.
Watch the damn movie. Penguin used Schreck for legitimacy and to gain access to public archives where he started researching firstborn names. The idea of running for mayor was Schreck's own and it was a way to backdoor a mayor who didn't want to give him what he wanted. Penguin is opposed to it at first but then falls for it because it's power and acceptance. Only when he gets outed by Batman does he go back to the original plan.

Return of the Joker is the true Batkino

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>how the movie thinks he got to that point
Eating a cat is not a hint big enough for you? He was fucked up from the get go.

>I knew the movie was fucking garbage when Batman tried to convince Catwomen that killing was bad after he spent the entire movie killing. Its like the writers didn't give a fuck. Far as i'm concerned, this isn't a batman movie, this a burton freak fest. Fucking hack can only make 1 type of movie.

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>post-season 3 Joker design

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It's painfully obvious that Burton didn't give a shit about Batman, he just liked making movies about his villains because they're weird.

Not that that's bad, I enjoy his Batman movies a lot, but I prefer Batman Begins and Dark Knight because Batman is actually a fleshed out character in those films.

>MCU
>soulless
Pick one and only one, brainlet

seething zoomer

Batman Returns is about Batman returning from the brink of being a constant murderer

seething boomer

Ye cool story you little zoomy gimp lmao

Thats sounds needlessly complicated and convoluted as hell. To get all that done is the runtime the pacing must've been awful

ON the contrary, he understood the vilains were much better, just like the fucking animated show (that was born literally thanks to Burton). Batman Begins is fucking boring and bland (muh ninja).

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>unironically defending Marvel shit
Holy fuck the summer posting is so bad.

>Batman Begins and Dark Knight because Batman is actually a fleshed out character in those films
Lol. For Nolan, Batman is just a mouthpiece for his ideas. The dialogues in those movies are awful. The exposition is delivered so straight it hurts. There is no imagery to speak of, no imagination. Nolan actively opposes anything that would detract from the dourness and flatness of his movies. It's no coincidence he has gone with the most mundane of the Rogue Gallery because if he had to do somebody like Mr.Freeze or Poison Ivy, it would trigger his autism. And all his villains are fanatics, with the Joker and maybe Scarecrow being a slight exception that he is an entertaining fanatic. Burton atleast understood that a villain should act the part.

This board loved Avengers when it came out in 2012, you're the only summerfag here

>This board loved Avengers when it came out in 2012
You mean "The shills loved the Avengers"

>Penguin used Schreck for legitimacy and to gain access to public archives where he started researching firstborn names.

Yes, Penguin was playing Shreck, which was my point...

>The idea of running for mayor was Schreck's own and it was a way to backdoor a mayor who didn't want to give him what he wanted.

Yes, but he made the choice without the knowledge that Penguin was planning to murder his SON regardless if he became mayor.

Soooo, yes, Penguin was playing Shreck, which was my point..

>Penguin is opposed to it at first but then falls for it because it's power and acceptance.

No, this is actually false. Penguin ultimately accepts his proposition when Shreck mentions he will gain back status from Gotham's high society that his parents denied from him(with the added bonus of fondling/raping women aka unlimited poontag).

So he's mainly going along with it as another way to smear his parents from the grave which circles back to his revenge plot of murdering the wealthy's first born which he is never shown to drop. When he meets batman after that point and Batman asks him what do you really want...the movie is telling you he hasn't dropped his true plan which is still a mystery at this point.

So in the end. Yes, Penguin was playing Shreck, which was my point..

Next time, watch the the flick before you speak on the flick.

That's not complicated or convoluted at all, the setup is actually built to go in that direction. Matter of fact what they actually did between penguin and catwomen was actually convoluted as hell.

You are not wrong.

>Muh shills
Schizo retard

thank you

>Penguin was playing Shreck, which was my point
Watch the damn movie. He wasn't playing Schreck, he was quite literally blackmailing him. At first.
>he is never shown to drop
Because the movie had three villains and Batman who all needed screentime. There never was a need for indepth study of what was Penguin's motivation at every moment of the movie.
>When he meets batman after that point and Batman asks him what do you really want...the movie is telling you he hasn't dropped his true plan which is still a mystery at this point.
Pure conjecture. Batman suspects him because he is Batman and knows Penguin is the leader of the Red Triangle. If anything, the movie tells you that Oswald really wanted to be a mayor when he renounces the human name and asks for his list to be brought back.

>big companies would never pay indians pennies to "like" their movies when they hit
How come people hate capeshit when it's not "in season" but suddenly when a trailer/movie hits, the board is full of faggots praising it? Through low effort shitposting no less?

LOL at these old boomer niggers itt seriously arguing this piece of shit as being a better batman movie than batman begins. Fucking Christ you old niggers are diluted.

Batman is a none existent character in this movie, he just takes his gadgets and goes up against the villains and wins pretty easily, nobody poses a threat to him. I mean, he has no arc, no presence, no good dialogue like he did in 89, no interesting action scenes or anything. The movie is simply not about him or showcasing him, you can swap in any other hero and the movie would be the same.

For fuck sake, batman was literally out smarted and taken off guard by catwomen when she chastised him for knocking down a poor defenseless woman. Sorry boomer niggers, but batman isn't suppose to be a fucking idiot.

It’s painfully obvious you haven’t seen the film.

The important thing is that you fed him some attention.

>batman begins is good
Zoom harder

So he's actually just a big nosed dickhead that works in the scummiest sector of the entertainment industry (circus) who plays the victim to get ahead and be more of a cunt?

>the movie tells you that Oswald really wanted to be a mayor

Batman ask him the question about what he wants AFTER penguin refers to himself as the MAYOR, which is the movie way of telling you he still has an ulterior motive going on underneath everything. That was the point of that entire scene.

And its funny how you talk about pure conjecture when you didn't even notice that Penguin accepted Shreck mayor plan only when it was explained how it relates back to smearing his parents. The evidence is clear, every decision he makes is drenched in the goal of getting back at gotham's high society(and his rape fantasies). This is why you dismiss the scene he had with batman, its because your IQ is so low you missed those earlier hints.

>asks for his list to be brought back.

You're being dishonest, the scene where he ask for the list, he's not saying that in the context of "restart" the plan or bring the plan back, he doesn't even use the word "back". He's simply just asking for the names to be brought to his personhood. Resorting to lying or distortion to win an e-argument is beyond pathetic.

I haven't seen that movie since the early 90s and I don't care.

You're forgetting Donner's Superman movies.

This film is the essence of pleb filter. If yu don't like it, I'm sorry but you're a retard
Based

my capeshit is better cus it lissen to de rulez

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Settle down, Wasted Trips. I'm sorry that your brain shorts out when big words