Star Wars Struggles to Win Marvel Generation

It’s hard to say this, as someone who grew up pretending to be Han Solo battling Darth Vader and his stormtroopers to rescue Princess Leia. But it must be said: Kids might not be into Star Wars anymore.

Walt Disney Co.’s underwhelming theme-park attendance last quarter was the latest sign that the intergalactic saga isn’t resonating for younger generations raised on Iron Man and Fortnite. Chief Executive Officer Bob Iger was so sure fans would be blasting through the door that he had instituted a reservation system for visitors to enter Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, the new attraction at Disneyland. It turned out not to be necessary.

Star Wars toy sales popped with 2015’s “The Force Awakens,” the start of a trilogy that united Han, Luke and Leia with a new band of heroes, but have slumped since. “Solo: A Star Wars Story,” last year’s spinoff featuring the backstory of beloved characters, utterly bombed. “The Last Jedi,” the second in the new trilogy, was profitable but fell shy of its predecessor’s performance. The next installment, “The Rise of Skywalker,” will have the very future of the franchise riding on it when it debuts in December.

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There wasn’t supposed to be such a disturbance in the Force. When Disney bought Lucasfilm Ltd. in 2012 for $4.05 billion, it already had a template for the intricate web of sequels and spinoffs it hoped to create around the Star Wars brand. Marvel Entertainment, acquired three years earlier, had rolled out a series of interrelated movies with characters who went on to join up in the blockbuster “Avengers” movie, then Disney’s most successful ever. The films are supposed to combine with TV projects and the theme parks to create a virtuous cycle, where fans get excited for each new iteration and can immerse themselves in the world of their heroes.

There was every reason to believe “Star Wars” would have a similar path, with its endearing droids, otherworldly life-forms and minor characters like Lando Calrissian and Boba Fett who inspired their own cult followings.

Fans Sniping
Instead, some of the franchise’s most dedicated fans have been sniping at the way Disney has handled their favorite characters from the old movies. And the new trilogy’s heroes, like Rey and Poe Dameron, just haven’t inspired the same fervor among young people, with toy sales falling flat around each new installment. The Disneyland attraction, along with a Star Wars land opening at Disney World in Florida this year, are designed as much for older dudes as they are for tykes, with a Millennium Falcon-themed ride and a cantina where you can debate whether Greedo shot first over vodka cocktails called Bloody Rancors.

Iger has attributed disappointing box-office figures to “Star Wars fatigue,” and he’s pledged to slow down the tempo of releases. But that doesn’t square with the success of Marvel, which reliably churns out a blockbuster every four to six months.

Neither of my nephews give a shit about SW. They love Marvel though.

Some people delayed their visits to Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge because they thought it’d be overwhelmed by tourists when it opened, Iger said Tuesday, channeling Yogi Berra. In other words: Nobody goes there anymore; it’s too crowded.

Wizarding World
So where are they going instead? One clue could be the rising attendance over at Universal Studios Hollywood, where the Wizarding World of Harry Potter saw an increase in spring-break visitors last quarter, fueling sales of souvenirs and butterbeer.

Disney plans to parlay the robust Marvel properties into theme-park attractions of their own, but it isn’t giving up on Star Wars by any stretch. Along with “The Rise of Skywalker,” the company is debuting a live-action Star Wars TV series, “The Mandalorian,” later this year on its new streaming service. “Last Jedi” director Rian Johnson is developing a new trilogy, and the creators of “Game of Thrones” are working on a movie. This may be a hiatus, but Disney spent a lot of money on Lucasfilm and it’s going to keep investing to make it a success.
“We build these things for the long term,” Iger said of Galaxy’s Edge. Or as Yoda might say: Patience you must have.

>the start of a trilogy that united Han, Luke and Leia

Wouldn't be dying if that was the case.

Disney underestimated the damage the prequels did, only boomers were interested in the sequel trilogy, soley because of the OT characters

>Rian Johnson is developing a new trilogy
>the creators of “Game of Thrones” are working on a movie

they're STILL going with those hacks? L M A O
twitter.com/io9/status/1128318951279202309

And they didn't win prequel fans either because they shitted on them too. They shitted on two top selling trilogies fanbases.

this is underrated. they still think everyone only remembers OT. TFA was so big because of the return of OT characters not because of their forced diversity hires new characters. now that it's obvious OT characters were fucked over, audience is leaving.

All they had to do was contunue the story and take it to new and unique places. Instead they made Force Awakens a remake of New Hope complete with another fucking death star and Last Jedi a SJW fueled alien titty sucking piece of shit with a goth rage quit villain.

The younger generation are either minority kids who never cared or angry white kids who grew up on the internet.

Lucas knew this was coming.

They killed Luke, the hero of two generations, in disgrace, while failing to build up his spiritual successor Rey in a way that either of the current parent/child generation bar the most for lack of a better word cucked ones could identify (or rather: sympathise) with.

Let the past die.
Kill it, if you have to.
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

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Give me a good reason why children would want to see Disney Star Wars over Disney Marvel movies?

Making Luke a jackoff and killing him off isn't even in the top 100 things the sequels got wrong.

You guys are overthinking it.
It's struggling with this generation because the aesthetic of Star Wars is deeply rooted in 70s/80s sci-fi which is a far cry of what is popular today: either "everything is an Apple product" sci-fi or modern cyberpunk, which is actually less Blade Runner and more Blade Runner 2049 (aka a lot less 80s inspired).

This wouldn't be a problem if the movies were good, had good characters, and didn't take a steaming shit on the old characters and fans.

Instead we got some feminist boardroom's abomination of a bunch of shallow diversity hire characters in movies made by hacks. Trying to appeal to little girls with sci-fi fantasy is also fucking retarded.

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I dunno, kinda feels like it gets into the top 100 pretty easily to me.

Would anyone even debate this? The only competition really is their duel in ESB.

>Trying to appeal to little girls with sci-fi fantasy is also fucking retarded
It's true. Honestly intentionally trying to appeal to women with almost anything is a waste of time, they'll go wherever passionate men go, including movies.

It's my number 1 issue with it. Much could've been forgiven if Luke wasn't an insane grumpy ass-kisser to little miss can-do-it-all but rather, simply Luke.

I recently read Dark Empire I and II where Palpatine comes back twice over and Luke dabbles with the Dark Side because sure why not. It was a dreadful, aloof, all-powerful depiction of Luke, the opposite side of the coin that Jake Nightstalker is on. The comic contains a lot of stuff they pilfered and put into the ST, though. It's like the ST is made as a counterpoint to people who really, really liked Dark Empire. Which I can't think would make up a large group, at least not for the plot. Cam Kennedy's style reminiscent of Franco-Belgian comics, and the fact he was losing his sight resulting in the psychedelic colour scheme are interesting, but that's all the good there is to say about it.

Are you fucking kidding? It's the number one thing the sequels did wrong. Like, Luke's handling in general is a monument to corporate stupidity.

Medieval style duels >>>>>>> Circus du soleil shit.

Rian hated Star Wars and wanted to burn it all down, a theme he blatantly wove into TLJ. Thing is, he's kinda succeeded not by going nuclear on the mythos but by being dull as fuck.

Could it be that our Star Wars movies are bad? No, it's generational. Kids only like fresh franchises like Captain America.

Everybody thinks they're trying to tap the fem audience. i have the impression Kathleen Kennedy and her minions hate Star Wars and decided to transform it into something she would like to see, surely all the girls in the worls would jump in?

No you simpleton, you need to look at the bigger picture. The very foundation of the narrative they're telling is deeply flawed in every aspect, Luke is the least of the problems. Even if did right by him he would still be surrounded in a nigh unwatchable movie.

>copy-paste the OT
>except very very poorly
You don't need to be a 400 IQ genius to figure out why SW is failing

>prequels ship design are modern
>people complain why old times have modern looking ships
>prequels still making bank
Guess you are right, prequels were a hit even if they had their problems

I would unironically pay to see a Battlefield: Earth-tier clusterfuck of a Syar Wars movie.

Prequel ships were attempting to capture a 50s aesthetic. Being all shiny and 'new' looking, like a car.

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>Rian hated Star Wars and wanted to burn it all down,
I don't think it's that. Rian is a bitch boy. getting this opportunity is absolutely unbelievable, but there was a catch, he would have to make the movie KK wanted and hand over his balls in exchange, which he did without hesitation. Now he's hanging round with "my feminist agenda" T-shirt and nothing under his belt.

Same with the diner thing in Episode II. I don't know how well they pulled it off, but there was some sort of thought swirling around Lucas' head.

How to appeal to female viewers: A really fucking straightforward lesson
>Have lots of sex in your show/film
>Have a lot of that sex contain nudity
>Have a considerable amount of that sex be between male brutish characters (ie. large, violent, angry and of few words) and 'plain' girls that female viewers can self-insert into
>Have a lot of that sex be borderline rape if not full-on rape
>Have handsome, charming male characters (at least 2 who are close friends/brothers) for the women to ogle over and draw creepy fanart about
>Insert lots of light-hearted quips
>Have really elaborate costumes

You now understand why GoT had so many female viewers. You also have an idea why Supernatural has such a large female viewership along with Suicide Squad

>Marvel respects the source material and slowly builds a brand
>Disney Wars shits on all the OT characters and all previous stories and picks fights with the fans on social media while paying shills to insult the fans

WHY DON'T THEY LIKE DIS?!

It's probably top 100... I mean, personally, I'd rate it number 1.
I would've literally forgiven all their shit if they had got Luke right

There's a tiny pearl of genius there, that was buried in a mountain of bullshit and poor writing.
I maintain, that the idea of Luke making a really big mistake, that barrels out of control and leads to the resurgence of the Empire is a really solid starting point for a sequel trilogy.
Just, not like that. Luke's retreat to the first Jedi temple should have been a last ditch attempt to find a solution to the problem he caused, not literally just him running away like a bitch, and leaving his friends and family to die.
It's a natural part of the hero's journey that the mentor figure dies. I would have preferred that in Episode 9, after a bit of well deserved Luke fanservice though. It was too much of a downer to kill Luke and Han off in subsequent movies right around the time Carrie Fischer also died for real.

>The films are supposed to combine with TV projects and the theme parks to create a virtuous cycle, where fans get excited for each new iteration and can immerse themselves in the world of their heroes.

Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products

I mean, when the prequels came out, merchandise sales were at an all time high and resulted in TFA doing unbelievably well at the box office.
The sequels... not so much

>Star Wars fatigue
I don't think you can apply that term to a formerly beloved decade-spanning franchise that's probably one of the most profitable of all time

I know at least a half dozen women who skipped over all the sex scenes in GoT

This might be kind of crazy, but I somewhat feel like the choices in Luke's character stemmed from Disney's perceived "failure" of Hamil as an actor. You look at the guy before the Disney buyout, and he visually wasn't doing that great. Fat, not particularly handsome. The type of thing you wouldn't want to plaster in front of an international film audience. That's why he literally didn't do anything in Episode VII.

Downplaying his role in VIII was an extension of that. Luke was a "failure," just as Mark was a "failure." But it's okay. There's a new hero, Rey (Disney), who's here to pick up his mantle.

I think there's some truth to it in that they could've spaced out the main trilogy films a lot more to build hype. It doesn't apply to everything else, though. Audiences would lap up yearly side movies if they were good

What?! You mean kids aren't excited about badass female characters Rey, Rose Tico and Vice Admiral Holdo?! Whoever could have foreseen this?!

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that's what they tell you, sure

I'm basically fine with grumpy hobo Luke. In fact, I really enjoyed every scene he was in (even that one). They just failed to bookend it correctly. First, you need a justification for why Luke became that way that doesn't feel out of step with who the character was, secondly you need to offer the audience catharsis, by showing him return as the Luke they love, which we didn't really get.
A beloved character going through a crisis of faith can be a great source of drama. You just have to frame it right.

Your being too generous. It was a bait and switch. Kathleen and Rian have a distain for anything they see as old or regressive so they tried to remove the pillar whitch built the franchise so Disney Leia and Rey could save the day with there tolken slaves. They actually thought all they needed to do was peer pressure people into liking it and people would eat it up like Marvel.

It's the arrogance of Kathleen kennedy, the new hero has to be a female Jedi and she only saw Luke as an obstacle, they delayed the "problem" in TFA by relegating him to a 30 seconds cameo. they solved the problem in TLJ by ruining his character and killing him off. Just imagine having the old cast reunited after 40 years and seeing it as a problem rather than a 1 in a million opportunity they could capitalize on. KK is a dumb woman, she has no degree, she worked in the business thanks to diversity quotas and sucked the right cocks to become producer. She is completely incompetent and single handedly ruined a $4B investment

It's why I think part of it came down to Disney's fear for Hamil. They took one look at the guy in 2012, and based their script around utilizing the least amount of him possible.

The NuWars are pretty shit with therir heavy handed political posturing but even that could be ignored if the characters and story were engaging. The mythos of SW is better than all of the movies (with only Empire being a legitimately excellent film). NuWars and the prequels fucked up when they messed with the logic of the mythology. As a result they've resurrected a zombie without a soul that neither past fans or future fans can give a shit about.

Oh, actually make him teach Rey something too, for God's sake.
>Rey meets the wise master, only to realise he has nothing to teach her, and she's already good enough
Fuck off, Disney.

Kids want to imagine themselves as the cool hip young badass characters.
Every kid wanted to be Han Solo or Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader or Boba Fett. No kid todays wants to be Rey or Finn or Poe and no kid today wants to be old Han Solo or old Luke.
Kylo is their one saving grace but not every kid wants to be the villain.

It doesn't help that the villain has been defeated twice already.

>people still believe Rian is making a trilogy

Poe was almost a cool character, and then they decided they had to spend the second film tearing him down for being too cool.

>When Disney bought Lucasfilm Ltd. in 2012 for $4.05 billion, it already had a template for the intricate web of sequels and spinoffs it hoped to create around the Star Wars brand
Really? It seems like they've been completely winging it.

false, the prequels did not damage the franchise. Disney underestimated how much damage changing the franchise and forcing stupid agendas damaged the prequels.

You could say the OT was lightning in a bottle to have the impact it did and to create such a multi-generational fan base at the time.
Everyone fucking loved Star Wars when it was released in cinemas.

However what is fact, is that at their base they were good to great films with characters people cared about about and in most cases good self insert into.
You can debate about what is different currently in culture and aesthetics but at the end of the day the ST just aren't great films the story and characters fail to really garner true support.

The point is: you can't just take any ip, even star wars, and expect growth and devotion from new and existing fans by slapping A Star Wars title on mediocrity. And unfortunately Disney had a false bar to jump with the prequels "we just need something decent to keep the fans happy and forget the damage done by the PT" when in fact no you need an incredible film to receive incredible results - you just have a huge leg up on the competition by having a pre-existing world to expand upon.

I think the 'template' was the existence of the MCU.

Then you either know very prudish women or liars (my money's on the latter). Consider 50 Shades as well as books/films like Pride & Prejudice

They had a vision for properties to exploit and sequelize.

They did not have a staged narrative through line.

That only makes him more endearing. The “Rey turning evil” theory was really popular on Yea Forums and reddit before TLJ. TLJ then subverts you into thinking maybe the roles will reverse. That doesn’t happen, and now it can’t happen unless Palpatine possesses Rey and Kylo becomes the hero.

>Iger has attributed disappointing box-office figures to “Star Wars fatigue,” and he’s pledged to slow down the tempo of releases. But that doesn’t square with the success of Marvel, which reliably churns out a blockbuster every four to six months.

The difference between making an okay movie twice a year compared to making bombastic shit once a year, then pay millionaires to call the ticket buyers sexist gamergate incels.

>The five stages of denial: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance
So it's time to update that image huh?

That would've been a much more interesting story.
>What, you thought it would end with parades and ribbons? Grow up. After your 15 minutes, you're forgotten just like everyone else. And it's either the bottle or the noose, so don't you judge me

They have their Nufans. They can live with those.

There isn't graphic sex in Pride & Prejudice or any of Jane Austen's work. Just juicy relationship dramaaaaaa!

>They did not have a staged narrative through line.
they still don't It still baffles me that there was no discussion between JJ and Rian between the two movies, no hand off. It makes no sense that they have that stupid mostly female team that's in charge of the story, and they couldn't plan out a cohesive three movie arc.

That sounds very problematic and anti-feminist.
>Yes women, you can succeed. But only if a beloved MAN teaches you first

You mean squeals. The politics of the PT were pure politics and government policy where the ST is social political metaphors meant for Twitter pundits.

FUCKING APOLOGIZE

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>The films are supposed to combine with TV projects and the theme parks to create a virtuous cycle, where fans get excited for each new iteration and can immerse themselves in the world of their heroes.
Then why did they build their theme park around some literal who from a book nobody's read set in a place not featured in any TV show or movie
Vi Moradi isn't a hero to the overwhelming majority of people, if it weren't for the rebellion logo on her bright orange jacket most people would probably think she was just another visitor to the park

>Disney underestimated how much damage changing the franchise and forcing stupid agendas damaged the prequels.
my bad, got ahead of myself, meant
>Disney underestimated how much damage changing the franchise and forcing stupid agendas damaged the franchise.

The prequels aren't OT tier by any stretch but they did at least have a definite narrative. Where there were holes, Lucas brought Tartakovsky and Filoni in to paper over the cracks so in retrospect that whole prequel canon tells a pretty coherent story.

You can't be serious. They were fucking shocking. One of the only good things about TFA was having fun while watching a Star Wars movie in the cinema

because star wars is hella gay
t. zoomer

I know, are. That's the problem with Rey as a character, isn't it? They can't allow her room for genuine growth and improvement, because "sexism".

Up until you start thinking about the movie after watching it. I mean sure, TFA is okay if you turn your brain off, it'll probably be more entertaining than the prequels that way.

TFA doesn't hold up as a singular film the way any of the OT does, and it feels like a shrunken down, packed remix of the OT.

>They were fucking shocking
sure, but they didn't damage the franchise. People at least look back fondly to them. TFA was ok, even though some people were put off by the mary sue aspect of Rey, killing han, nostalgia baiting or whatever, but you're right, it still felt like a star wars movie...TLJ not so much. The prequels didn't kill the franchise because people will still excited to see TFA. The franchise died after that, can't blame the prequels for it.

Well sure no doubt people are tired of Star Wars. But referring to it as Star Wars fatigue makes it sound like it was something inevitable and organic, like people were always going to get tired of it. When in reality people are tired of it because the thing Disney have done to it have made it tiresome.

You can find things to like about the prequels, even if it's just the soundtrack, and the art design.
Disney can't even get that right.

S-sorry based pottery man... p-p-please come back...

Because no young and handsome Jedi main character.

>But that doesn’t square with the success of Marvel, which reliably churns out a blockbuster every four to six months.

Hmmmm I wonder why
>Star Wars - female protagonists
>Marvel - male protagonists
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Their ESB fight is in fact better. RotJ had good emotional weight but so did the ESB fight. But the ESB fight was much better on a technical level. Vader and Luke's skills almost look degraded in RotJ by comparison.

You don't need all of those elements user, I'm just telling you those are the elements that appeal to female viewers. Women don't want graphic sex, they want passionate sex. The stuff you'd see on webyoung or sexart instead of brazzers or dogfart.
What P&P has is a cunt-ish emotionally closed-off handsome male who falls for a plain boring woman, in a period setting with lots of intricate wardrobes and out-of-place wit.
Take Beauty & the Beast for another example. A literal monster lion-man kidnaps a plain woman and forces her to keep his company and dress elaborately in ball-gowns while he abuses her father.
Or Cinderella. A charming handsome rich prince with no personality falls in love with a peasant girl who's secretly stunning when her fairy godmother takes a chance on her, but no one else realises. And all it takes is a single dance for this prince to move heaven and earth to find her, literally asking every girl in the kingdom their foot size.

In terms of nudity in films/shows that appeal to women, you have GoT, 50 Shades, The Tudors, The Other Boleyn Girl, Annie etc. It's very common. Pretty much all nudity that isn't just gratuitous sex or fan-service shots is actually there to bring in the female audience, not the male audience. Only 13 year old boys get excited at nudity in films. And they capitalised on this with Transformers

no, fuck that. The best thing to happen to SW is getting it away from him. The worst thing to happen to SW is that disney for whatever fucking reason is hell bent on changing it to something it isn't just to appease an audience that doesn't want it no matter what

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>that united Han, Luke and Leia
That's a straight up lie

>The best thing to happen to SW is getting it away from him.

Keep living in denial

>"What if Leia were to teach her all that stuff instead?"
>"....about that...."

TFA never felt like a Star Wars movie to me. It felt like a competently constructed but ultimately shallow Disney adventure flick. Compare it to Marvel or Pirates of the Caribbean. That's what it is. Just a bunch of "WIZ! BANG!" Bullshit, with quippy characters and a sheen of post-irony about it all. Gone was that vibe of classical myth mixed in with an autistic enthusiasm for Flash Gordon and old war movies.

They don't do anything cool with the force powers that's one thing the old EU had going for it the comics and games showed all these cool new powers you could do with the force and now kids are brought up on anime and capeshit where ki blasts the size of planets and meteors getting thrown at people is the norm kids don't want to sit and watch gay ass stiff ass swordfights which is probably the only thing Rogue One had going for and the only good part of Solo was the Teras Kai fight at the end

Having Fisher die really fucked up their girl-power endgame.

>buy huge, beloved media franchise
>make shitty, hollow rehash of the old films to bank on nostalgia...
>while at the same time, demonizing your core fan base
>make a big show of pushing for diversity, stating that “the force is female,” when space wizards and laser gun battles are overwhelmingly more appealing to little boys
>somehow manage to make an even worse sequel, all while shitting out a bunch of other films no one asked for

If you want to capture the next generation, maybe try making a good movie or two. Banking on nostalgia while also shitting on your old fan base is impressively retarded.

Fuck this retard. His failure with the PT is part of WHY it ended up with Disney. Fuck you George.

They tried to emulate George making the OT he hired 2 other directors to make ESB and ROTJ. What these mongrel don't understand is that he wrote and planned the wholse story first and that he executive produced all the episode and was heavily involved in the prrocess. KK the old cunt tried to do this but forgot they needed a script first.

Just make better fucking movies. It's not rocket appliances

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Why mouse didn't take strong assets from prequel materials?

Imagine how much muh dicks would have been exploded if Ahsoka was involved as mentor for Rey.

The average pleb has awful taste

starwars.com/news/poll-what-is-the-best-lightsaber-duel

Like Donnie Yen was the best part of Rogue one and they cast Iko Uwais and the other Raid guy in the TFA but wasted them as gag character cameos and yet what's the best part of TFA?? The whole Tr-88 fight, JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy just don't understand what modern audiences want

People will counter your point by claiming that Lucas didn't know Vader was Luke's father or that Luke and Leia would be siblings or whatever. The thing is, he knew enough about story structure so that the transition between ANH and ESB and ROTJ would still work. Even with the Prequels there is still a storyarc.

I don't know how people can defend TFA and TLJ together. They don't feel like they belong in the same series, even as they have TLJ taking place not long after the end of TFA.

They should get Johnson to direct, D&D to write, and Kurtzman and Orci to produce.
If you are going to make a shitty movie, make the shittiest of all time.

Pretty sure he had decided Vader was Luke's father right from the begining, it flows too well with the description Obi-wan makes in ANH. People say he made this up later because he didn't say it loud. He's smart and knew some morons would spill the bean he kept secret for himself. Even Lawrence Kasdan discovered it while watching the movie KEK! And people think he wrote it!

>"no"

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They should hire Simon Kinberg as consultant and make sure the script is reviewed by Kiri Hart.

It's not even a big deal having a female Jedi or doing a diverse cast. The problem was the writing, acting, action sequences, and most importantly the core story was total garbage.

Ep 1,2,3 had shit acting but the actual story was decent and had some kick ass action sequences.

The new shit from Disney is just really not memorable in any way. I can't actually remember any of the action scenes, none of them really stood out.

Basically Disney needs to fire everyone involved and start fresh.

>Johnson to write
>Kiri Heart in charge of casting
>D&D to direct
>Kathleen Kennedy to produce
>Dobson to edit

I agree. I like the RotJ fight better though just for the emotional highs of Luke losing his shit. It's definitely less of an actual 'fight' though.

>prequel shit winning by a large margin
The only prequel fight that I actually have any fun watching is the one with Maul. Though sheev and cgi yoda throwing shit at eachother and flipping around is worth some laughs.

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>One of the only good things about TFA was having fun while watching a Star Wars movie in the cinema

Stupid people bitch about Lucas "ripping off" Kurosawa and Flash Gordon and all that, but the OT and even the PT felt like he had a variety of influences. TFA feels like it was made by someone whose only frame of reference was the OT and maybe action/sci-fi movies from the last 30 years.

>they did at least have a definite narrative
I'll bet that you got that "narrative" from the novelizations, cartoons, and expanded universe because it sure as shit wasn't on screen.

I don't know about that user you replied to but I never touched any of the EU stuff from the prequels onwards. The PT had serious problems, but there was still a clearer story than the one from the ST.

They need to make Star Wars 10,11,12 at a Frozen or Toy Story level of wonder and imagination and not care about plot so much. Fuck it, just have Lasseter and Brad Bird write them.

Make the jedi kid friendly, either rootable heroes and beautiful women or even droids that can talk or even kid jedi.

Star Wars is just too serious and unimaginative for kids. I mean what kid hasn't thought of the "snow level, lava level, forest level" like all Star Wars planets are? Kids want their movies to be better than what they can imagine so it inspires them.

Female Jedi was a problem because that's the starting point of the creative process. KK told Michael Arndt to make a female Jedi story and that was it. This is her process, it's disgusting, it's manipulative and SW was doomed before they started writing the first line. Puting her feminist agenda above everything killed SW for good. There is no future after this mess. They'll try but it will fail systematically. There's nothing left, nothing to build upon.

Very true.

Disney also underestimated the importance of SW videogames. Rogue Squadron,, episode 1 racer, jedi academy, kotor, the SW name never lost its appeal because the games kept it alive when there were no movies comming out.

Then they gave the license to EA.

Or you know not make it for kids, since even people who saw ep1,2,3 in theaters are adults.

>It's not even a big deal having a female Jedi or doing a diverse cast. The problem was the writing, acting, action sequences, and most importantly the core story was total garbage.
one stems from the other though. You're right, those aren't a big deal, but they become a big deal when you make them the focus of your movie instead of just having them in the movie.

Right. The Empire in the OT have this distinct feeling of being the product of a man who loved war films. The Empire in the ST feel like the product of someone who saw a Stormtrooper costume.
OT Jedi felt like the product of someone who loved films about knights and samurai. ST Jedi feel like the product of someone who knows what a lightsaber is.
Mos Eisley and the whole criminal underworld side of Star Wars felt like the product of a man who loves westerns. What little of that you get in the ST again just feels like the product of someone who saw the costumes in the OT.

Again this is KK's complete disconnection with the fandom. She's an old woman who doesn't know anything about videogames and therefore doesn't care and didn't think it was important, ley's shutdown Lucasarts and outsource games to EA, we will collect that sweet royalties without doing jackshit. It didn't turn out well.

>arguably coolest character in the sequels
>also happens to be female
>proceed to do absolutely nothing with her for two movies

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>coolest character is a chromed out stormtrooper

>even as they have TLJ taking place not long after the end of TFA.
The funny thing is, this is probably on the long road the most disruptive element of TLJ and Rain Johannesburg just wrote it in that way for yet another "gotcha" moment.

And also a total hardass, but yeah it says a lot about the sequels when she's your best character.

It's sad, but it's not like there's much competition. Phasma is at least a serious villain with a cool design who has some significance to the main cast, even if her role is literally "Boba Fett-type character."

The other villains are emo edgelord Vader kid, screaming ginger bitch officer, and wrinkled monster who doesn't do anything.

The heroes are Mary Sue, minstrel show cowardly negro, quippy spic Han who doesn't do anything, and ugly fat chinaman.

pt might have been a downgrade from the ot, but it had a lot of other good shit going on. good games, good comics, good books, good cartoons. i'm not sure about the current books and comics, but the cartoons and games have been ass alongside the new trilogy.

They didn't do nothing with her, they did even worse: They made her into a joke over the course of the two films.

>I'll bet that you got that "narrative" from the novelizations, cartoons, and expanded universe because it sure as shit wasn't on screen.

Try to explain Anakin's storyarc in the first two PT films and Rey's storyarc in the first two ST films.

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Female Jedi isn't a bad idea really, something different and I'm fine with that. They just cast and wrote it poorly.

The issue isn't with diversity it's with garbage writing and story telling. They had people who don't know what the fuck they are doing running the show and casting a bunch of white dudes wouldn't have changed that.

>give us the 1st female villain in a Star Wars movie
>she gets less than 5 minutes of screen time over 2 films and is the butt of a joke in one movie and just dies after jobbing in the next
I thought Disney was trying to be progressive.

A female Jedi is fine, the issue is Rey is just female Luke.

Rey isn't even female Luke because at least Luke had a story/character development over the course of two films.

>the issue is Rey is just female Luke.
hardly. Luke at least had some charisma and was an insert for the audience. Rey, for lack of a better term, is just a mary sue.

Luke's role in most of the OT is pretty much to fail repeatedly, and learn lessons.

>Literally a piece of concept art turned into a cool looking costume to move toys: The Character
>The coolest character in the sequels
She somehow makes less of an impression than Boba Fett despite being a clear ripoff

That's actually the issue with the new movies, they just tried to 1-1 replicate everyone from the original movies instead of doing something new.

> So who's gonna be the boba fett of the new movies?

Yeah they were real believable.

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How's that not believable?

>kill off the characters that made the entire series popular in the first place
>surprised the series is dying

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>I know at least a half dozen women

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Pathetic opinion

TFA wouldn't have done so well if this were true
The sequels did ALL the damage to Star Wars, not the prequels.

It should have been him. He's the only person beside Lucus who wrote decent Star Wars story. Hell his addition to Star Wars was better than anything Lucus did.

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>FUCKING APOLOGIZE
his treatment for the next trilogy was about the lives of midichlorians
literally three movies about Doozers

He was lucky and had a lot of help

if KK really wanted top tap into fem audience she would cast Momoa as Quinlan Voss in the main role, not Mary Sue and that gorilla. Women love ripped chads. Marvel is a proof of that.

Solo was a good movie, but it was too late. Rian Johnson put the final nail in the coffin with the abortion that was The Last Jedi. Fan backlash obliterated the hype for Solo.

Disney's just mad that they fucked up in getting the rights to HP years and years ago. They were too cocky then, thinking they could lowball JK Rowling and get what they wanted, but they didn't. They fucked up, and are trying everything in their power to get something as powerful as HP.

it would have been better.

yes, this. luke alone cannot save SW from rehashed af story, mary sue, useless diversity hires, pandering to sjw at the expense of the story and character, bad plotting, bad pacing, bad dialog, ugly actors.

quoted for truth. nobody has creative freedom unless their vision aligns with kathy's 100%. it's that or fire city.

The Mandalorian, that will be the serious contemporary reboot and true cash in of the Boba Fett helmet everyone loved in the OT

Are they looking forward to Thor Love and Thunder?

>But that doesn’t square with the success of Marvel, which reliably churns out a blockbuster every four to six months.
Marvel actually has/had competitors too but nobody else has a franchise like Star Wars. Winter Soldier, Days of Future Past, and Guardians of the Galaxy all came out within four months of each other and were all big hits. Aquaman and Captain Marvel also came out within four months of each other and both broke a billion but somehow one space adventure movie per year is too many, I guess Valerian of all things made TLJ underperform.

mark is fat and no more handsome now close to 70 years of age. he has an excuse. what's their excuse for casting bodega who scared the fuck out of china and killed star wars chances over there forever?

he had to die for he upstaged rey. just watch. anyone who doesn't upstage her (finn, poe, rose) is gonna live. everyone else is toast.

Realistically it would have been a howler people only went to ironically and then he would have sold to Disney with the same results afterward. I've read a comic book that adapted the original, much more Flash Gordony concept he had in mind and it's a struggle to stay awake through it.
George's smartest move was marrying a far superior film editor who salvaged ANH and took home an Academy Award for it. His second smartest move was tricking Fox into giving him the licensing. His third was finding seasoned screenwriters and directors to helm 5&6.
Creatively, he's a eunuch.

>Solo was a good movie
"No!"

because character development is overrated drek. not eevry character should be dynamic aka grow. some characters work perfectly fine as static already developed characters. yoda and obi wan in OT don't grow and that works. poe is that kind of character. he should have been just cool and that's it. but no, they had to give him an arc and development and that was pure trash.

>Solo was a good movie
except it wasn't. Forget that no one wanted that movie, it did more damage to the franchise than any other movie, but that doesn't matter because no one saw it.

I probably would have liked it. I like the Prequels. I don't have an issue with midichlorians, or taking the Star Wars universe beyond the confines of the OT. I have also read and enjoyed that particular comic.

Problem is he was hardly even in TFA. They didn't spend enough time establishing him for it to feel right for them to deconstruct him to that degree in the very next installment.

I am. I couldn't care less about this female thor thing. I'll wait until I watch the movie to get worked up over it.

None of that reflects on it's actual quality, and it is the best Disney movie. It's not great, but it's alright.

>Those rotten moviegoers ruined it!
A lead actor who was literally receiving acting lessons on the set
A pair of action comedy screenwriters writing/directing action comedy that somehow blindsided Kennedy
A bland hired gun director to replace them
Prequel guaranteeing giant-ass shoes to step into
Emilia "Box Office Poison" Clarke and Woody "Just Here For The Paycheck" Harrelson

Yes, it was our fault clearly.

amen. marvel built their brand on white male leads. now that the brand is strong thanks to that, they are getting inclusive and unfortunately acting like the brand was built on diversity from the start which absolutely isn't true. Still, it took them over a decade before they started acting like sjw bitches. lucasfilm was sjw trash right from tfa. and now they can't believe they drove the brand into the ground that fast.

Is this really hard to figure out? They took the franchise and turned it inside out. Giving every classic character a shitty send off for new characters that have zero charisma or appeal.

Fuck it. Let it fail.

If Disney cares so much about a female jedi lead they should just adapt Kotor and make Fem Revan. I honestly think Fem Revan works just as well as Male Revan and then they could even win some SJW points for themselves by bringing in the lesbian Juhani plot.

TFA seemed to have momentum. I personally didn't find it very appealing since it's missing all the elements of a competent "hero's journey" story, but TLJ just came in and took a shat on the entire thing so hard it turned me off from anything Star Wars.

R1 is the best disney movie, miles ahead of Solo. Solo was bad on many levels. Yes, it was entertaining, but it was more bad than it was good. R1 at least had the decency to backload all the good so that the first half didn't hold it back.

truly disgusting.

this, everyone went to see TFA because the prequels were great. Multiple older teachers I've had have told me episode 1 is their favorite of all 6.

not as many people saw TLJ because TFA sucked so much

>it's alright.
"No!"
It's shit

this is correct. also nudity is more ripped chad shirtlessness. like momoa in aquaman. ladies went wild for that one.

>Giving every classic character a shitty send off for new characters that have zero charisma or appeal.
Just like the comics end of Marvel.

the problem wasn't that they gave him an arc, the problem was that they gave him an arc that propped up women at his expense. Which is stupid even if they weren't women.

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hey, first 3 POTC movies put to shame what passes for quality entertainment these days. they were inventive not painfully formulaic or safe or recycled or pandering to woke twitter.

This. My kids doesn't give a single fuck about Star Wars.It's all Marvel, DC and somehow DBZ

>nostalgiabait doesn't work on the younger audience
Who would have guessed!
If they made actually good movies they would have liked them.

And the bigger problem is that he wasn't even wrong. Everything he did was logical and right. All he wanted to know was that there was a plan, not what the plan was.

sorry to break it to you guys but there's a legit leak that states leia will train rey a little. so yes, it looks like they circumvented luke training cause he's a man.

R1 is just a movie of cinematography. It looks the best by far, but none of those characters were memorable or likable, and it didn't even really succeed at it's own mission statement of being a Star Wars war movie, and that's a problem.

>DBZ
Based

the movie was doomed despite all those things. They had a list of things to tick off and they did, weighing the movie down. The movie shouldn't have been about how han got his name (he should have been born han solo, spanish shouldn't exist in that universe), and it shouldn't have been how he met chewie, and it shouldn't have been how he got his blaster, and it shouldn't have been how he won the MF, and it shouldn't have been about the kessel run, and so on. It should have been about just one of those things, or none of them.

until all crashed down with no rebels survivors

>Multiple older teachers I've had have told me episode 1 is their favorite of all 6.
As a 51 year old who stood in line for hours in the sun waiting to see ANH when it came out and saw TPM, they're fucking senile if they thought TPM was better. It's like I'm the only one in my age group who didn't become retarded after turning 45.

>References! The article
This is just painful to read. The fact that this is the average Star Wars fan makes me glad this shit is finally dying

It's literally fine. Call it "Serenity 2", or "Space Cowboy Jimmy", and it would probably be a cult hit.

IT SHOULDN'T HAVE FULFILLED A GOD DAMNED RLM THINK PIECE ABOUT HOW COLOR BY NUMBERS IT WOULD BE

>but none of those characters were memorable or likable
false

>and that's a problem.
how so?

either way, it's a self contained movie that was fucking great. Despite the first half, it was a movie that was about what it was about and it was all it needed to be.

Sure, once the plan was revealed, which was retarded and operated under very contrived logic, it was a bad idea for Poe to do what he did. But based on the information he had, he had to take action.

Female Jedi is a problem if that's all that is to her. Rey is literally just that, a female Jedi. No personality, no motivation, no nothing. same problem plagues diversity hires. They are not envisioned as actual characters but as black, brown, asian representation and nothing beyond that. on top of that, they didn't even cast good-looking actors so the represented audience felt embarrassed that such frogs represent them. failure on every level.

Solo was the only good Star Wars film Disney has made so far and its all because Ron Howard is an amazing director. Solo was the only movie that felt like Star Wars, and the way the SJW robot uprising was filmed was supposed to be comedy. In a few years when SJW's aren't as absurd, the ridiculousness of L3-37 will be a joke instead of a forced "woke" plot line.

It was the only movie that made me feel like I was in a galaxy far away instead of some futuristic version of earth.

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wut?

no

It amuses me to no end to come across the occasional fuckhead that tries to defend what Disney has done with SW. you people need to get a fuckin grip

>don't care about any of the film's heroes
>this isn't a problem

why is it a problem? Why do you have to care for them?

Get woke go broke.

>Luke's retreat to the first Jedi temple should have been a last ditch attempt to find a solution to the problem he caused, not literally just him running away like a bitch, and leaving his friends and family to die.
But this makes no sense. What possibly could he be doing at the temple that could be a solution?
The problem is inherent in the concept. The only logical reason why Luke didn't turn up in TFA (or before) is that he'd given up. A Luke that was still up for the fight would not have let Han die. This was what Rian Johnson inherited.

Kids actually really love Kylo Ren but Disney are too busying forcing their SJW trio (Finn/Rey/Poe) in everyone's faces instead. They recently announced Ben Solo/Kylo Ren content preceding IX and it's the most hype the fandom has ever been. They really shit the bed not putting more focus on him. JJ even mentioned wanting to do a KoR movie around TFA, but that never came to fruition obviously.

I cared about most of them...maybe it's just you?

>When Disney bought Lucasfilm Ltd. in 2012 for $4.05 billion, it already had a template for the intricate web of sequels and spinoffs it hoped to create around the Star Wars brand.

This is a blatant lie. Also it's hilarious how staggeringly incompetent Disney is. Anyone, and I do mean almost anyone, could pen a better star wars trilogy and come up with a better strategy for the movies. Go into any local gaming store and have a back and forth with any nerd therein about a good star wars trilogy and in 5 minutes the two of you will have a better story than any nuwars film.

Accept the loss for now, shelf everything star wars, let contracts expire, fire everyone in lucasfilm, and just sit on the franchise for at least 5 years. Then, hold contests for fans to create their own short films. Like a star wars film festival. Select the most popular products, give them a proper budget and the help they need to make a hollywood level film, and let the most successful few filmmakers come up with trilogy ideas and have a secret meeting about which concept is the best. Then make that trilogy. At the same time, let anyone with demonstrable talent purchase a star wars license to make games or toys or any other type of product, no more EA exclusive bullshit, so that quality non-film products are being released.

That's the only way to save star wars at this point. Of course personally I want to see nuwars crash and burn and the mouse to shatter but I'm just throwing out solutions.

it shouldn't have cast a manlet to play han, it shouldn't have cast that sjw piece of shit woke white's lap dog gambino to play lando, it shouldn't have cross-promoted the movie with gambino's trash woke song, it shouldn't have had feminist droid.

>Ron Howard is an amazing director
Apollo 13 was a fluke.

Well said. It baffles me to no end the creative decision to have Luke not be all that was expected of him to be. If anything needed to be mirrored in this series, well, Luke coming back from whatever mysterious trip to rescue Leia, a callback to ANH, this time as his sister. The amount of wasted potential in this series, having the OT guys all on board, for that one last hurrah and the passing of the torch. The amount of firing I would be doing if I was in charge would be ungodly. The only Disney property those motherfuckers would be allowed in would be Toontown.

Are you guys just going to completely ignore the fact that Kylo Ren is insanely popular with women and that one of the only dedicated fanbases ST has are the Reylos?

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but if they turn KoR into feminists, I'm sure the show would be greenlit within seconds.

>gambino to play lando
he did a good job though. Probably best part of the movie

What really worked about the film was the story of a kid from the wrong side of the tracks, on a mission to reconnect with the girl he lost, while forming a father/son bond with a seasoned criminal. That should have been the whole movie. You don't need Lando, or the Millenium Falcon. You can take or leave Chewbacca. Just focus on Han running a heist with this gang of criminals, and eventually learning not be be a naive and hopeful kid, transitioning directly into the cold killer who only looks out for himself who we meet in episode 4.

>It's literally fine
>it would probably be a cult hit.
Holy shit, your standards are low. It makes no fucking sense, the plot is laughable, half of what happens is stupid bullshit while the other half is dependent on pre-existing knowledge of Star Wars.
>Terrible lead
>"Han... Solo!"
>Han speaks wookie, but Chewie understands English anyway
>Irritating, worthless scene where Han has to give Chewie a nickname
>Val sacrifices herself for no reason because she is powerless to fight off the slow-moving robots
>"You're the best pilot I've ever seen" says the dying monkey after being knicked in the shoulder, after Han flies alongside a train?
>Shitty Billy Dee Williams impression from Glover
>Every single fucking thing about the proto-Rebels, especially the mutt teenage girl leader (special mention to her holding the hand of some random negro child) and Han giving her the space fuel for free for no reason
>Everything about the feminist social revolutionary robot, every single line, Lando's relationship to said robot
>Predictable """twist""" with Woody
>Plot is about fucking space fuel
>Ends with "REMEMBER THE OLD MOVIES?"

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no but he isn't front and center like aquaman, thor, cap. for women to get to his scenes, they have to sit through shit that doesn't interest anyone.

Name them all without checking.

They like kylo ren because he's the only character with a good costume design. The First Order uniforms look like shit and the rebels as always look like garbage.

>Phasma is at least a serious villain with a cool design who has some significance to the main cast,
That actually makes her better than Boba Fett.

I don't care for I don't like his politics and therefore won't support anything he touches. hear that, disney? fuck you and your woke cast. not gonna watch anything with gambino, larson, thompson, etc.

that won't prove anything.

>Go into any local gaming store and have a back and forth with any nerd therein about a good star wars trilogy and in 5 minutes the two of you will have a better story than any nuwars film.
This could be an Eltingville comic book full of cringe but factually you're not wrong here. The difference between suits and fans is that fans know what they want and suits only know what they think they're morally obligated to make

>shit, I fucked up, and now there's this powerful Sith lord on the loose who I can't beat, maybe these old books have a solution
>oh, no. There was no solution. Now I will become a broken man and shamelessly molest sea animals.
This isn't hard.

>still no actual romance
>Rey shouldn't fall in love unless she wants to be Anakin 2.0
>Luke followed the Jedi way and had no kids
>only """""romance""""" was between the beige filler characters
>99% of Kylo Ren dying
This is just shipping bullshit. It can't carry a series.

yeah, you show them buddy.

Respectable take.

He looks cool with his helmet on, the problem is he stopped using it almost immediately.

KOTOR was the best thing to come out of Star Wars.

Poe was never cool or popular. He was a filler character and should have died in the opening like originally planned. He's lucky he even had one minute of screentime in TLJ even if it was all garbage. Glad he got shit on, the only flaw is Holdo not throwing him out of an airlock.

Go back to talking with Patton Oswald Mike

>by claiming that Lucas didn't know Vader was Luke's father
But, Vader MEANS father.
Who is making this retard tier argument?

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So the exact same thing as TLJ except his gives up a little later?

Imagine if we got 2 minutes of Darth Vader in his helmet with his awesome voice, then he takes it off for the next 2 movies and we just see a burn victim with a wheezing voice from then on.

SEETHE harder nostalgia cuck. TFA made a fuckton of money. The prequels didn't do shit, your dumbass suggestions to improve them did.

He was the most charismatic of the new cast and I remember that everyone found him a surprise treat when TFA came out. He was just a simple, friendly, throwaway character.
No one gives a shit about him now.

>What P&P has is a cunt-ish emotionally closed-off handsome male who falls for a plain boring woman, in a period setting with lots of intricate wardrobes and out-of-place wit.
>Take Beauty & the Beast for another example. A literal monster lion-man kidnaps a plain woman and forces her to keep his company and dress elaborately in ball-gowns while he abuses her father.
>Or Cinderella. A charming handsome rich prince with no personality falls in love with a peasant girl who's secretly stunning when her fairy godmother takes a chance on her, but no one else realises. And all it takes is a single dance for this prince to move heaven and earth to find her, literally asking every girl in the kingdom their foot size.

Yeah, literally Reylo and Kylo Ren. Thanks for finally noticing.

Keep ignoring the fact that women went gaga for shirtless Kylo.

It amazes me how fucking brained you lot are. You are literally talking about all of this stuff and completely ignoring that it actually exists in the ST and is popular with women.

Massive coincidence. There's no mention of Vader being anyone's father until preproduction of ESB. The "Vader" stems from Invader

I just can't get over how bland Rey is. She's so detached from everything. She has no reason to hate the First Order like Luke did with the Empire. No actual relationship with any of the surviving protagonists but Finn ,she hasn't even met Poe.
She just isn't the focus point like Luke was.

Kek

Making money is a nice side effect but not a priority of disney

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>"Luke."
>*cough*
>"I am."
>*takes a long breath*
>"Your fa-"
>*lung collapses*
>"Father. Ba-"
>*dementia kicks in*
>"Baldness runs in the family kiddo, you're fucked by 30."

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Because the films don't build mystique about the world, the lore, or give us cool characters.

We got fucking sick Jedis and Sith in the past, cool aliens, boba fucking fett, lando, etc.

Nu Star Wars has has generic black dude, generic white dude, stronk womyn who suicide bombs, dweeby sith, an some of the cool characters but old ass do nothings.

The sequels exist because Disney went down a checklist of everything you told them you hated about the prequels. SEETHE harder faggot. You nostalgittards literally asked for it.

Disagree: TFA had sold out theater showings for 2-3 weeks until people realized they were watching a remake of A New Hope. There was a LOT of hype for TFA, even from prequel haters.

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Sounds like everything we're getting now but original, memorable and actually fantastical unlike Disney Wars.

Actually if you read KK interviews she's a pretty big Kylofag and if you actually pay attention to production and not just make things up in your incel autistic brain you would know that it has been said numerous times that Kylo Ren was the character they put the most work in. From designing him to the way they speak about him to his name.

Yes. The fact that his first response the whole Kylo Ren mess was "shit, time to run away" was retarded.

Obviously you don't want airsoftfatty or his ilk contributing ideas but there's tons of guys into x wing armada and Edge of the Empire who are currently making better star wars stories for the 3 guys in their game than what the entirety of hollywood writing can produce. Incompetence borne of nepotism is destroying the industry-I mean, just look at Basedlo, who was cast because Spielberg saw him in some stupid jew comedy film of him at a bar mitzvah.

I'd go as far as saying TFA got as much hype as it did partly because of how much people hate the prequels

>they just tried to 1-1 replicate everyone from the original movies instead of doing something new.

It's hilarious that you say this when one of the biggest complaints against Kylo Ren by braindead fanboys is that he's not "just like my Vader power badass fantasy!".

But it's okay because the fact that he is so different and new is a big reason why he is so popular anyway. So once again you are criticizing the movies and completely ignoring the fact that Kylo Ren is a new and fresh idea/character and is successfully popular.

This single panel sums up every problem with Disney's worldbuilding.

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Being old enough to remember the OT, it spawned a trope central to SW's overall success embodied in Boba Fett: ALWAYS leave something cool and unexplained for a later movie but NEVER have the characters discuss it, then fucking pay off in the later movie instead of derisively wiping it away as soon as possible just because you didn't personally write that hook.
This isn't fucking rocket science.

You should also include that Luke actually squared up to Snoke and lost. Include it as a scene, if you can.

No, Poe was never popular. The only "fanbase" he had was tumblr girls who thought he was gay and wanted him and Finn to be together. He was just a meme and not even a very popular one at that. Kylo was always very popular, even from TFA.

True. Turns out the Star Wars franchise was massively overvalued at $4b

What? Literally fucking what? That's a pretty serious question

>had to order tickets a month in advance
>"n-no it's de prequelz fault"
Pathetic. TFA is what you get when OT nostalgiatards are in charge of your franchise. Be a fucking adult and admit your "fixes" for the prequels are fucking retarded and always were.

>"Luke"
>"Your mother"
>*tingling in the crotch area*
>"what an ass she had. Sat on my face all the time, the dark side Luke... "

>Female Jedi isn't a bad idea really,
It actually kind of is, for several reasons.
1. This is the most glaring - the series is based on popularity with little boys. Little boys of the past who grew up into fathers and want to share it with their own little boys. Little boys need a hero character in the film to admire, want to be like, etc. Who is it in nu Wars? There just isn't one.
2. Star Wars has ALWAYS been essentially a father son tale. Luke was the son abandoned by his father, Obi become his father figure and dies, then Luke redeems his evil father by bringing the good out within him and healing their damaged relationship. The second series is about Anakin (fatherless) being raised by Obi and eventually turning on his 'dad'. It's also about Obi not measuring up to his 'fathers' example (Qi Gon) to explain why he went into exile.
3. Girls don't like star wars. In fact, girls don't really 'like' anything hardly. What they like is anything that gets them attention from men. Pretending to like star wars did that, but they only 'liked' it in as much as the men they were interested in did.
4. Female characters can essentially never have flaws now pretty much. So they're fucking boring. Any flaw, or any time a female shows weakness, or is helped by men, it's seen as 'sexist' by the retarded woke mob. So therefore having a female main character dooms your shit to being super fucking boring.

So yeah, for these reasons having a female jedi main character was fucking retarded. I legitimately do not believe you could voice ANY of these reasons in a corporate boardroom of today without getting reported to HR.

Well, Kylo Ren is the actual best character. The problem is they want to sell him as the core villain of the trilogy, which doesn't work.

The only fix the prequels needed was some tighter dialogue. I'll watch ROTS a hundred times before I ever watch TLJ again

They killed the underlying mythic resonance and philosophy of Star Wars. That's why it endured for so long. It had its own language and feel. The MCU doesn't have *any* of that after 22 movies, which means it will be forgotten even faster.

In case you never noticed, this has been Disney's model for decades, only now they're doing it with pop culture instead of faerie tales.

>"But worldbuilding is bad though. Why would you want any of that? I fuck my cat."

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>checklist of everything you told them you hated about the prequels
like what?

I don't want to keep talking about it, but you are wrong. Kylo became even more sympathetic without the helmet and I've heard of kids saying things like "he's sad he needs a hug" so they still think he is cool, just with the added "want to hug him" aspect.

Are you just ignoring the people who loved Kylo even more after he took his mask off? Are you ignoring his popularity and the amount of people that shit their pants and they found out JJ was bringing the helmet back?

>But it's okay because the fact that he is so different and new is a big reason why he is so popular anyway
It helps greatly that Driver isn't a dogshit actor, has presence and the minute someone accidentally writes good content for Ren he's going to run with it.

It's not that Poe was great. It's that the idea of a hotshot pilot with a cocky attitude is something you can work with, but they decided to flush it down the toilet instead.

>how does a remnant of a galaxy spanning Empire outdo and surpass the manpower of the death star superweapon?
>doesn't matter
>how does a remnant shrug off losing said investment and begin conquering the galaxy off-screen?
>not one bit
They just didn't care user.
The reboot didn't come with any reasoning's for the reset, they just wanted to do ANH again.

Definitely agree. Especially the very competent trailer that showed Han saying "Chewie, we're home".

Actually I think her being a fat coked out bogmonster that is no longer capable of emoting or getting out of a chair fucked up any potential ideas of Leia doing anything.

No, but you can sell a turd and there will be people who love it.

He is only popular because, unlike the rest of the cast, he has legitimate potential to grow and change. There are questions people have for his character like whether he'll return to the light, whether he'll die or not, etc. etc.
He's just the sharpest knife in a drawer full of spoons. Nothing truly special, but the only decent one.

>The only fix the prequels needed was some tighter dialogue
>oh and no Jar Jar
>oh maybe also no distractingly anachronistic 50s diner
>maybe the whole midichlorians thing didn't need to be there since it shat on the mythos without adding anything
>kids like trade federations right

>how do we strike at the root cause of all our troubles in life
> general leia: tldr, teehee. shamona! Help me obi ayuwoki, you my only hope!

>Rian wants to subvert the hotshot pilot saves the day cliche
>Poe took out the dreadnought from his call
>end of the movie Rey saves the day OOOOH I LIKE THIS
It's just a mess

Leia is senile and should step down from command clearly.

>he isn't front and center

Except he is. Have you actually seen the movies or the marketing? He's more prominent than Rey herself on a lot of it and the movies themselves revolve around his conflict with this family. I'd like to remind you that Finn had more screentime than Rey at one point, but no one would ever say that he's front and center and the main character of the story.

It's fine if you can't pay attention to the story or understand what's going on, but you don't need to project that on everyone else.

The ST is basically just a lite-Twilight romance/Skywalker drama with Kylo at the center and Rey as a slightly more empowered Bella Swan and women are eating it up.

But it's not just that, Kylo has many fans of all ages. The problem is not giving him more focus, but they are only remedying it now. They are suddenly releasing more Kylo content preceding IX, but it might be too late.

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Makes sense that boys don't give a shit about a new trilogy aimed at little girls.

>we've got a great idea for Poe
>no let's hand it off to a new character, that's a good trick!

At this point, I think the dialogue is mostly fine. The thing about Star Wars is it's supposed to be cheesy, and operatic, and melodramatic. Try to make it all "relatable" and you end up with the ST where everyone has this vaguely insincere sarcastic tone, and makes yo momma jokes.

That's all fine. Jar Jar is better than Finn's goofy ass because unlike Jar Jar Finn just wont fuck off

They could market them as feminists, but in reality they are basically just Kylo's harem. That's what they did with the ST and Reylo. People seem to under the impression that Rey is some SJW fantasy, but in reality she hasn't done much in the movies and play second-fiddle to Kylo and the Skywalkers in terms of relevance and her only real character motivation is wanting to marry Dark Prince Ben Swolo.

This. I took my little cousin to see TFA when it came out and he was bored out of his mind

>it already had a template for the intricate web of sequels and spinoffs it hoped to create around the Star Wars brand.

A "template," but not a story to tell. Story and myth actually matter. They hyped the MCU by teasing a grand, sweeping story revolving around the Infinity Stones, even if it ended up only barely being a coherent story. Production schedules and stories aren't the same thing. Without an imagination like George Lucas's at the center of it all you've only bought an aesthetic, not the myth itself.

Also checked.

The argument about world-building, very simple lines can fill entire entire stories needed to resolve questions the audience would have.

>How did the First Order regroup so fast?
"Don't underestimate the First Order's connections to black market resources."

This fucking astounds me. Does Disney have no fucking clue how unpopular any of those hacks are? Even redditors hate them.

>story is too different, make it like the OT but again
>worldbuilding bad, nothing should make sense ever
>good lightsaber fights bad
>cgi bad, practical effects good
>fuck internal consistency
>have JJ Abrams direct it
>Anakin is an unstable overemotional manchild, get us a brick who can't even smile convincingly

>where everyone has this vaguely insincere sarcastic tone
Which is perfect when exactly one character (e.g. Han) has that but this isn't a fucking shakycam NBC faux-documentary sitcom

That's already been done, his name is Han Solo and he already has two characters that are similar to him without getting into rehash territory in the new generation: his son Ben Solo and Rey.

Why the fuck you would want a shitty boring rehash of a character is beyond me.

>t-the idea of it

lol fuck off

Even throwaway lines like that which are maximum lazy is better than the void we have now.
You have to fucking explain the setting if we are to know the stakes, this isn't the obvious galaxy spanning Empire vs plucky underdog rebels which is established in the opening shots of the franchise. Explain why the Republic is snuffed out and the FO is so powerful.

>Kids actually really love Kylo Ren
*tumbrl

Well, yeah. Poe should be the cocky guy. Even then, maybe don't make yo momma jokes.

What did my post have to do with your post?

>an imagination like George Lucas's
The one that comes up with names like Darth Icky and putting 50's diners into SW. He's a high functioning autistic who has had his dick held for decades and the faster you accept this the better off you'll be. Yes, Disney is ruining SW but his contribution to the franchise was largely technical.

Agree. You can not give a shit with unnecessary details, but a good story writer anticipates the distracting questions and logic-issues the audience will have. I swear these movies were written by low-cost amateurs straight outta some Cali university instead of high ranking sci-fi authors.

nah

This is literally the sum of his minor appeal. If you remove the initial scenes where he still has the helmet on, especially the frozen blaster bolt scene, he would drop down the half a notch to where all the other new characters rest. Whatever audience interest he generated has come entirely from coasting on those early scenes, and in no way from being an interesting character.

Han Solo was a scumbag smuggler, who was eventually brought around to the light through his adventures with Luke. Poe was a pilot of the Rebellion when you first meet him. He's not exactly the same character. His priorities and outlook on the world are different.

youtube.com/watch?v=mmE0htMkbUY&t=20s

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There's literally nothing wrong with Dex's Diner.

Nah, Kylo was retarded without his helmet for kids, he was maybe better to man children, but he's not an appealing design to kids when he's just some guy with long hair that cries a lot.

>this is not a glaring turd in a punchbowl
youtube.com/watch?v=iy3yoSwBA_c

Absolutely no way that they'll actually make Rian's trilogy. They're paying to keep him in eternal pre-production until 9 comes out, then they'll quietly cancel it. They know he would make a piece of shit but they can't admit it until after 9 comes out.

I love how you nostalgiatards have been so btfo by the sequel trilogy. The prequels suck, we get it. You keep beating that dead horse. The sequels are worse, you just have a hard time admitting it because you don't want to admit your ideas were fucking retarded.

>they want to sell him as the core villain of the trilogy

No, they don't. At least not in the conventional way, which is actually great and new and exciting.

I agree, they struck gold with his casting. KK was the one who championed that and said that as soon as they came up with the character, she knew only he could pull it off or something. So again, you guys putting all the focus on Rey is just your own delusions. They cast Kylo early on and KK was the one in charge of that and made it seem like it was such an important thing. They even gave the guy months to decide because he was their first choice.

>He's an actual character, so that's why people like him.

Thanks, Captain Obvious. But you're half-wrong. He is a fresh and new idea of a character and he has a pretty invested fanbase and the idea with him was always that. If I have to hear one more time "his popularity and him being interesting is an accident" I'm going to lose my mind.

The funniest part of all this is KK is the one at the helm of it and yet people are convinced Rey is her favorite. You will never hear her talk about Rey with such depth as she does with Kylo. She even gushed about Leia's superman scene being about her wanting to save her son.

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The helmet removal was actually good character development that implied he was starting to step out of Vader's shadow. Never mind that though, eh?

You will see marvel revenue drop like a rock when more niggers and trannies fill the screens. Acengers succeeded because you had actual memorable actors and staff like rdj, not because everyone loves marvel or some nonsense.

I love star wars but it became so fucking shit that I became an anime weeb for one particular (multi)verse that hits key notes the original star wars did and has few to no niggers save for alter version of pic related

Either take the fucking hint or just fucking die you shitbags

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COPE

I really don't see what the problem is. Star Wars was always a genre mashup of things George Lucas loved as a kid. Why is there a wild west saloon on Tattooine?

That is the dumbest statement, ever.

She is nothing like luke. Luke has flaws.

It's not just off-putting for kids it's actively anti-kid
Kids can't get their expectations subverted because they don't have expectations in the first place. Clone Wars viewing figures were good but they decreased throughout its run presumably as kids got less and less interested in Star Wars.
Imagine being 9 and seeing any of the new movies as your first Star Wars without any knowledge about the rest of the universe.
VII: Rey is bland and you have no idea why the movie is acting like these old people are a big deal. Maybe you liked Finn and Poe but you won't after TLJ. Kylo was kind of cool when he had his helmet on but you have no idea why he kept talking to a lump of burned plastic
Rogue One: You don't know what the Death Star is so the first half of the movie falls flat. Also your introduction to the rebel alliance is off-brand Pedro Pascal executing a guy in cold blood. To be completely fair you would come away from the movie thinking Darth Vader was cool since the subplot about two middle managers bickering over which of them built a space station being resolved by a magic cyborg who lives in a lava castle chocking one of them out is fucking rad.
VIII: No
Solo: Your dad asks if you want to see a prequel about the old guy from VII when he was young. You really don't

Most of the time kids don't care about that, his character is pretty retarded and he spent the first movie just shrieking.

>largely technical
Yeah. World-building *is* technical. It was Lucas who came up with everything that makes Star Wars Star Wars - the Force, the Jedi, the Sith, light sabers, then intermingled Western and Eastern traditions to give us space samuria/knights with the mysticism of Eastern philosophies. Then he used that to give us a faerie tale. In space.

Disney's 5 movies into their endeavour, and they still don't know what story they're telling.

This new book is supposedly written from Luke's perspective btw, and it's coming out in November.

It clearly states that Kylo was "an unwitting pawn" of Snoke and Luke once again emphasizes that he is the one who failed him. So "ben is evil, he's supposed to be the villain and will die" camp are again btfo.

The only people who are really into Star Wars are the ones who were born before 90s.

I was born in 90 and 80% of the people around my age are into Marvel and don’t give a shit about SW. They aren’t interested in the prequels as well. They’re more familiar with DC instead as well

>he isn't front and center

MY SIDES

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I was born in 1993 and everyone I know my age fucking loves Star Wars, no idea what you're talking about. My brother was born in 98 though and he doesn't give a shit

No one cares about Pee or wants him to have more screentime, fuck off.

You could write quite a whole essay on the subtext behind that quote.

"Let the past die."
>Disney is the future, Lucas is the past
>Women are the future, Men are the past
>Progressives are future, Conservatives are the past
>soulless corporatism is the future. soul is the past
"kill it if you have to" clearly underlies the desire of woke activism to forcefully remove opposition by any means necessary.

This, holy shit. I didn’t think this type of delusion was possible outside of a grade 1 classroom, much less coming from one of the most powerful corporations on the planet. Does no one there realize how badly they’ve fucked up this golden goose and how emergency action is needed ASAP? Why aren’t the shareholders screaming about this?

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>It’s hard to say this, as someone who grew up pretending to be Han Solo battling Darth Vader and his stormtroopers to rescue Princess Leia. But it must be said: Kids might not be into Star Wars anymore.
Probably because kids would rather pretend to be "Han Solo battling Darth Vader and his stormtroopers to rescue Princess Leia" than "Ambiguously Brown Obese Hero Woman #38 launching a socially-conscious rap battle against Emperor Drumbf and his white power brigade to rescue no one, because women don't need to be rescued" or whatever nu-Wars has become.

You're talking to a braindead fanboy, user. He doesn't actually care about character development and story, he' just likes to pretend he does so he can shitpost.

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>Darth Vader was cool since the subplot about two middle managers bickering over which of them built a space station being resolved by a magic cyborg who lives in a lava castle chocking one of them out is fucking rad.

Thank you for this. It's fucking perfect. In a weird way, it's like a metaphor for Disney Star Wars: bean-counting middle managers being completely upstaged by the wonder and magic of what came before them.
VIII: No

Well not now. We're talking about a hypothetical universe where they didn't waste the character for two movies. You're a bit special, aren't you, m8?

They never did and that's a boring shitty idea anyway. They didn't "waste" anything, his character was meant to die in the opening sequence of TFA. Cope harder, cuck.

I said this to a friend the other day. She just started with SW, watched ST and the OT. She likes the OT, didn't say much about the ST but she said she is not going to watch it in the cinema.

So I said her - if they really wanted to make Rey powerful from day 1, so be it. So you don't have Luke's arc 2.0. Fine.
But in that case, make her VERY powerful. So powerful that she cannot control it. So powerful that the source of her conflict is the inability of controlling such immense power, the fact that she can hurt her friends, that people she loves start to be afraid of her.
You can also insert romance then, but such flaw would make her relatable and give her conflict.

Well that was a silly idea, considering he's the closest thing to a likable new hero. Why are you so angry about this?

>th-they only liked him because of the helmet, he is coasting on the first few scenes popularity

Keep fucking coping, that's why he was trending during Celebration and his fans had a shitfit when they realized the helmet was coming back.

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He's closer to literal dogshit than Rey or Finn put together, at lest the idea of their characters was somewhat new and interesting. No one cares about some boring generic pilot filler character.

Plinkett hated TLJ

>trending
he thinks twitter trends are legit

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>b-but the helmet!
>VF cover with him front and center on the cover sans helmet
>spread inside with no helmet
>trends on twitter anyway

lmao haters are so funny

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>he shows up onscreen in a BTS shot for 2 seconds sans helmet at Celebration
>*cue screaming and audible orgasms*
>only ST char trending

LOL MUH HELMET

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How many 8 - 14 year old boys use twitter anyway?
Seriously after typing that I actually am kind of curious how popular twitter is with kids

>the Empire and Rebellion again because nostalgia
>death star again because nostalgia but bigger
>Emperor again because nostaliga
>but no explanationfor him. Explanation bad, worldbuilding bad.
>OP as shit protagonist but with no explanation. Explanation bad, worldbuilding bad.
>What the fuck even is the FO. Where did it come from? Has the NR been ignoring it or whoops I forgot. Explanation bad, wordlbuilding bad.
>Hoth again because nostaligia
>Millennium Falcon again because nostaliga, nevermind this cunt shouldn't even be able to fly the fucking thing
>Luke doesn't actually fight Kylo because jedi masters are supposed to be above that shit and Yoda/Dooku fight bad so don't repeat it
>practical effects as often as possible, even when it looks like shit (I agree the prequels went overboard, but that Yoda puppet in TLJ looked like shit. You niggers went to the other extreme)
>FO takes galaxy in a day because rebels and empire again because nostalgia, why? Who cares worldbuilding bad
>Where is the rest of the NR? Who knows? Worldbuilding bad
>Prequels created too many rules for the force? Got it. Fuck the rules just make shit up as you go.
>no more aliens. just human characters
>waits how the fuck are there kids growing up in slavery if the NR was still around a day ago? Worldbuilding bad.

See this? George would have had a long and boring mountain of explanations for this scene, it would have been awkwardly worded and like 50% of it wouldn't even be necessary to hear but he still would have had a fucking answer. Disney doesn't even bother.

>entire argument is reduced to tinfoil hat /pol/-tier conspiracy theories

It's over. Go home.

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The fact that he's a recognisable character archetype is why he works. Look at the OT Characters.
>orphan boy hero
>wizard
>cowboy
>princess
We haven't had a main character who was a fighter pilot before, but he would fit right into that theme of riffing on genre fiction, moreso than some fat Chinese mechanic, or a PMSing admiral.

>helmet removal was actually good character development
No, it wasn't, because it was a change without a preceding real establishment of the character. You had to take the plot's word for it that he was frustrated from being in Vader's shadow somehow, or failing that then assume he just turned on a dime in response to a single remark from Snoke rather than take it as a final straw. Given how consistently erratic he is, maybe his only core trait, there's no solid reason for the audience to to invest any prior state at all. And his erratic nature isn't even explored, it's just there to be used as a vehicle to get the plot where it has to be. All you have is shitty Abrams style empty "revelations" tricking you into thinking there's depth where there is none. The development is all fake, and that's why nobody has more than a passing interest in the characters. Not unless they're relying on a headcannon to get them there.

This. Or you make her an acolyte of some Order we've never encountered before, not a desert rat scavenger with no experience with the Force. They could have given her real mystique. She could have represented some "Ancient Order" that was native to Jakku, a pre-Industrial planet on the edge of the Uncharted Region. Imagine a world with its own monastic order completely divorced from the Jedi/Sith dichotomy, guys whose approach to the Force is completely different, who've never even seen a light saber, let alone felt a need for one.

>he works

Except he doesn't because he's not popular, never has been, the only people who "recognize" him are tumblr fangirls who are convinced he is in love with the fat ugly Finn.

You are actually more pathetic than Finncuks at this point. At least he was supposed to have screentime and didn't have a generic idea.

Do you need them to speak every bit of subtext to you, very slowly and clearly, as if you were an autistic child?

fuck disney

Who in the fuck actually is on twitter?
Besides a bunch of 20 year old thots who think 'influencer' is an actual career option?

I do not know a single person with a Twitter account.

People are invested in him and understand his story perfectly. Keep crying.

>i get it, i just don't like it

Isn't an argument and never will be, nerd.

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He might have been popular, if they'd given him space to be a real character. Do you have the tardism, m8?