The Great Debate: Which did more damage?

TLJ is worse than that. The paid shills gave it a high score but for the actual viewers it bombed.

Game of Thrones since there was actually potential.

Idiots will continue to buy Star Wars merch. Even the people on here that bitch about the sequels will go see the last movie still so they can come back and talk about hoe shitty it is.

GoT, on the other hand, is as good as dead as a visual media franchise. Interest in HBO's prequel series is gone. Only the last two books are actually going to recapture the previous level of interest, and those may never come out.

>treatment of women is the worst part of GoT S8 according to RT
KEK

I found the reaction to the final season mad. People were defending the absolutely ghastly state of the writing that had beem going on since season 5 right up until the 3rd episode of the final season, then after the finale those same people suddenly joined the bandwagon hating D&D despite defending their trash for years.

To be fair, a similar thing happened with Last Jedi in that many that defended Force Awakens suddenly retroactively hated that too.

Star Wars. fuked up their disney land amusement park at Disney Land

Thats the only good part

Toys R Us went out of business because people don't want nu Star Wars merch, and look at Solo's box office numbers.

Why haven't trolls "mmoxxed" dumb and dumber and rj???

They deserve desu.

**replace "mm" with "d".

I don't care.

why waste those dubs on that reddit spacing

GOT has done the biggest damage but faggots are still in denial and think the books are going to be different. The finale will be the same in the books and it will be bad because King Bran is bad, regardless of the writing.

It's actually fucking insane this is what determines whether something is good or not. If they went for the most hokey girl power ending possible, it will get 94% on RT and there will be articles written about angry misogynistic youtubers who are making video essays on why the show is pandering to feminists. But because the female power fantasy queen ending up being a stuck up bitch, suddenly everything is considered shit. The joke is not even funny anymore. Fucking kill me.

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The original Star Wars story finished before I was born. There is so much Star Wars stuff that I can always filter away the bad shit and pretend like it never happened. I spent 8 years of my life being invested in the books/show and the conclusion was a giant slap in my face and the books will never be finished.

TLJ obviously, GoT was something that blew up just three or four years ago and merchandising still sells like hotcakes. Meanwhile TLJ was so bad that a Han Solo origin story is the biggest flop of the last 10 years and a Star Wars theme park is literally empty in august. Disney is losing billions on Star Wars while GoT is still profitable

Star Wars.

TLJ completely killed Star Wars

>Even the people on here that bitch about the sequels will go see the last movie
You are stupid. I want to see it, yes, but I'm not paying shit to Disney.

>GoT
>new franchise that came and went
>Star Wars
>western culture landmark brand that now can't get people in fucking disneyland in the middle of the summer
Gee this one's a toughie!

speak human please

Got was never good. Star Wars was.

Not only that, the “good” guys have proven that they’re so fucking incompetent the one time they created a government it was so full of corruption that they funded their enemies to the point where they could build a solar system blasting weapon, fleets of ships and a 60km wide capital ship whilst their own military was left completely undeveloped because women don’t like militaries.
The first order are objectively the more moral choice at this point because the priority for a government of trillions should be competence and efficiency, even if they are cruel.

The only "damage" The Last Jedi did was to autistic fanboys' butts. It's not the movie's fault they couldn't handle something other than what they expected.

Game of Thrones actually fucked up the final season.

The only "damage" Game of Thrones did was to autistic fanboys' butts. It's not the show's fault they couldn't handle something other than what they expected.

The Last Jedi. TLJ was so bad it made TFA become shit for re atching because the highlight of VII is the direction things can take, and the movie goes from "alright" to incredibly sour once you know everything in there leads to nowhere.

GOT from mid season 5 onwards was absolute shit, but at least the prior seasons are still watchable. And if anything, GOT turning to shit only makes me want to read the next books more, and pray for the health of that fat lazy fuck son of a bitch obese bastard that can't write for shit, so he doesn't die before he finishes it.

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>Solo was a massive bomb
>Galaxy's Edge is a massive bomb
Yeah the autistic fanboys are the ones losing billions, whatever you say Rian

GOT because even normalfags hate it.

Game of Thrones is just an adaptation, it was always low risk, and unless you are an illiterate retard who thinks reading books for fun is for faggots, them you can always rely on the original material.

Star Wars is an original thing, is all or nothing. The movies being bad makes the entire spectrum of Star Wars stink. TLJ was so bad it makes TFA being pointless and therefore also bad. Think straight, if you are one of the uncultured nerds who think the prequels sucks, now Star Wars have 3 good mainline movies against 5 bad ones. It is officially a terrible series.

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Nobody wanted a Solo movie and it was only a few months after the last Star Wars movie. It was gonna bomb either way.

TLJ of course.
GOT was just another show that turned to shit in the last couple of seasons, like so many others.

*Nobody wanted another Star Wars movie after TLJ

I fixed that shit for (you), buddy

Everything Disney touches lately dies. They just got the entirety of Fox too, which includes X-Men. Now they have the entire Lucasarts, all of Marvel, all of Fox.

They are so obsessed with ruining old shows that they started doing it to their own children. Lion King 2019 is a disgrace.

Even Marvel, which was purchased early, it became stale. For the last ~10 years, exactly when they bought them, it feels like you watch the same movie with slight variations.

They are officially too big to not be evil.

Fuck em up the arse.

If you want to support true originality, you won't find it at disney. Support new and indie (if possible) franchises.

Even their old iconic movies are usually rehashes of old stories. When they try originality like TLJ, they fuck it up the ass.

The only thing they always consistently did well was comfy soft-reboots of old stories. It's uninspired and banal but at least it doesn't suck cock.

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I would rather have a bad movie that at least tried to be different, than a fucking rehash. Worst yet, a 1:1 adaptation of a children cartoon with no changes, from story structure to clothing design and musics, everything unoriginal. Literally the only things changed being character races, and exclusion of moments that might offend politically obsessed ""people"".

Do I hate disney? Absolutely. But it's mostly because they will never fund anything that isn't safe shit.

>would rather have a bad movie that at least tried to be different, than a fucking rehash.
Problem here is that it's not a standalone movie, it's part of a gigantic saga.
Rian Johnson was practically a moronic little shit that thought he can rewrite everything and nothing will happen because he is brainlet enough to believe people have no memory of the rest of the story.

The main sacrilege is that he took Luke and Leia and turned them into practically "semi evil/neutral". That doesn't make any sense because of their history, but even if it could be stretched to make sense, it makes the entire saga fucking pointless. What is the point to even have a "Resistance" if everyone is almost the same at aspirations and ethics. It doesn't make it interesting, it makes banal and uninspired.

TLJ, and nu-Star Wars in general is just the definition of poor management and a lack of artistic vision. You can't play that game where each person tells part of a story when trying to write a saga, there will always be a faggot who will ruin it.

Star Wars obviously need originality, but it should have come from the person who is deciding the whole overarc or the saga, and not just a single director. Kathleen tried to please the directors guild who were butthurt at the lack of freedom in the MCU, and just shat the bed over it. Even now she committed the same mistake by giving full control to JJ again, is committing again with the Mandalorian, and will to it once more with the GOT hack writers. The woman don't realize that a cinematic universe requires a vision behind it.

JJ would probably be the "best" for the job, to plan the whole trilogy and execute it.

I say "best" reluctantly because he is JJ, good at directing but shit at story depth.

But Disney is generally incapable to be original. They've never been great at originality, their best works, historically, were comfy retellings of old stories.

If people want true originality they should look for original stories and franchises from preferably indie productions. Lucas gave up on Star Wars in the early 2000s (the prequels were juvenile and probably unnecessary but at least they were canon, made sense, and they would probably be great with a more mature retelling of the story and without too much of the details making it silly (e.g. 4-year-old student jedis)).

This gets me. People rant and rave about season 8 when GoT had been an embarrasing mess since season 5 when it became mostly OC. Evil Danaerys is the most interesting thing the show had presented in a long time, even if it was executed poorly. You could tell it was a GRRM idea. People fell for the stronk womyn power fantasy and got pissed when the end point was that her desire to turn the world good using force made her evil.

TLJ since that movie split the fanbase and it still gets talked about today.

So many incels crying over how disney ruined their life... You retards need something like AA meetings, so you can talk about your traumas and help each other

You are stupid, and also a hypocrite, since you are not only here, you are here only to hate like a screeching little shit.

For me shitting on Rian Johnson and the bitch is also a matter of principle: They tried to make billions by ruining a story with brainless "subversion of expectations" and militant feminism.

It's not even conservatism; being shit at rewrites doesn't make you good at originality, and being a sperglord at militant feminism doesn't make you good for society either.

Actually i think Mad Dany should have a whole season for her, what i got really pissed off was the Others resolution, with the fucking goblina materializing out of thin air to nothing personnel NK.
Also, Emilia is a cute!

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Going by the money they spent on Galaxy Edge and the attendance it got, I think disney ruines themselves LMFAO

Does DB & DB have any chance of saving the Star Wars movie franchise? Will the Mandalorian's success help push Disney to focus on some more TV series with unfamiliar SW stories?

That Mandalorian shit is flopping hard buddy

I would love to see more stories from the Imperial side including officers, agents, and TIE fighter pilots.

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>flopping hard buddy

second season is already in the works

Yup, with GoT people already knew it was shit by season 6 and it was pretty much expected to be terrible. TLJ was also expected to be terrible but it blew those expectations out when it turned out to be utter horseshit

So?

I like WW2 movies/shows when they have a German or Japan perspective.

Die nazi shill, no one cares about your stale propaganda.

Even if mandalorian is great it'll end up getting the netflix/prime treatment and getting cancelled.

Everyone's just gonna pirate it rather than jump platforms for it.

That's why I liked Rogue One so much. Also, because there wasn't any fag Jedi.

They did A Wrinkle in Time, Nutcracker and the Four Realms, and soon Artemis Fowl so I don’t think it’s fair to say they won’t fund unsafe shit.

TLJ, by far. Star Wars was one of the most recognizable and popular franchises in pop culture history for the better part of a half century, and then in the span of one film, scared off the majority of the fanbase, indirectly killed Toys R Us, and is in the process of killing the multi-billion dollar theme park.

By comparison, GoT was a TV show that lasted less than a decade, and was ending anyway.

Dude just get over it already.

You are stupid. Disney launches it at Disney+ and has exclusive rights over Lucasfilm which is Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

Are you living under a rock? Disney now controls the entirety of Marvel, Lucasfilm, Pixar, and recently Fox.

They are too big to not be evil.

Star Wars.
GoT has been trash since s5, getting ever worse.
TFA was bad, but passable. It was essentially just capeshit with star wars nostalgia plastered over the top. TLJ irrevocably ruined the franchise.

>with the fucking goblina materializing out of thin air
Arya became practically an outsider element inside of the story. The only limits of what she could do is the hack writers imagination, and she couldn't remain stable not even for one episode. In the same episode she is trying to sneak past three zombies, she just teleports beyond a fucking crowd.

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>Notice that even Leia gave up on her own son.

Didn't she ask Han to bring their son home in TFA? I might be misremembering.

>”Star Wars toy sales indirectly killed Toys R Us.”
Anyone who honestly believes this is a complete fucking retard. Toys R Us died because their shitty business practices and bad expansion attempts.

Post-Red Wedding bandwagoners="Muh Dany"
Watchers from the beginning="Muh Night King"
Book Readers="It was all shit anyway"

Aren't they putting the wagon in front of the horses with this? Shit is not out, it will be available only in the end of the year, but still they are betting hard on this. For all they know, it could fail, the idea of "space bounty hunters" can become stale pretty quickly.

TLJ retroactively ruined any sort of potentially interesting plot points laid out by TFA.

They literally have nothing else for their Disney+ dead on arrival streaming services, they might as well go all in

Odd numbers

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>TLJ was so bad it makes TFA being pointless and therefore also bad.

More than that, it makes everything from the PT and OT pointless too. Anakin's fall and redemption arc as the "chosen one" means absolutely nothing when you realize that he's going to have a shithead grandson who basically repeats the cycle.

It doesn't help that Marvel is going full WOKE now too.

Rotten Tomatoes is owned by Fandango whose president Paul Yanover created the entire Disney shill machine we have to suffer in this board. Both RT and Fandango are just shill platforms for the mouse

Cope Kathleen, nuwars is trash. Got S1-S4 was kino, S5-S7 was schlok and only S8 is pure fucking trash

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You can't do damage to something that was already shit by making it more shit

I've never heard of anyone irl that's been mad because of The Last Jedi, but I had coworkers fuming at work the day after some of the last GoT-episodes

At the conclusion of TLJ she's like "yeah, I also gave up on Ben, he's hopeless" like some dark-side bitch that can't forgive her own son.

Han was on the 1st movie IIRC.

Because people don't care about Star Wars anymore

+they got Pixar when it run out of steam to milk
its old franchises to death.

I'll just torrent the camrip for the banter but I'm not paying Disney a dime

>le TLJ was bad meme
Didn't know normies still browsed Yea Forums

People who still gave a fuck about Star Wars were up in arms when TLJ came out. Precisely GoT's final season reaction was bigger because GoT was more popular than fucking Star Wars at that point

Well, by that point, he had murdered his own father, and was basically the new emperor. I don't exactly blame her there.

Only brainlets think the rewrites of that movie weren't a disgrace.
Watch the original trilogy without falling asleep and then see.

GOT, it's a dead franchise now, GRRM will never publish TWOW and no matter how many prequel shit they try to come up with nobody will care about them. That shitheap of a final season destroyed it's legacy. (Which I am glad about, it was a disgusting show promoting incest, nihilism, feminism and all other sorts of degenerate practices)

TLJ ruined mainline Star Wars but it's such a massive franchise it can still exist fine in spin-offs which seems to be what Disney is looking towards.

You shills should just give up, everybody hates TLJ and considers it the worst SW movie ever. It's over, you lost

>GoT was more popular than fucking Star Wars at that point

That's so weird to think about. Disney has fucked that brand up so hard. It can be argued that Star Wars took a stumble during the prequel era, but the toys and games still sold, and people still liked the franchise overall. People don't even care enough to actively dislike it anymore.

Indeed, but not only Rotten user. All the media and critic reviews LOVED TLJ.

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I know, such is the power of the mouse. Good thing people hated it and now Solo and Galaxy's Edge corpses are laying on the ground as proof of how fucking awful TLJ was

Hasn't it come out said that Disney basically made them do that otherwise they would restrict their access to Star Wars content?

They also LOVED Ghostbusters '16. That whole experience was a huge eye-opener for me as to how full of shit those people are.

>(((critics)))

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Disney made a fool of themselves when they banned LA Times from their movies when they exposed some real estate corruption they had going on

nytimes.com/2017/11/07/business/disney-la-times.html

How hard do you have to lie to yourself to publish your opinion that Last Jedi is a good film? It's not even a competently constructed one. It's legitimately awful.

>they're set to ruin Artemis Fowl next
I forgot about this trainwreck in the making. Who the fuck asked for this? I remember reading Artemis fowl books when I was in middle achool/early school 15 fucking years ago, you're telling me that kids today still read or know about Artemis Fowl?

Better than that, seeing Solo bomb was funny af

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It's too bad that Solo's the one that had to take a fat shit at the box office. I actually kind of liked that one. It reminded me of one of those Roger Corman SW ripoffs from the early 80s, but with a budget.

youtube.com/watch?v=ksJTPdNNQB4

Solo and Rogue One were actually kinda good

>shortchanges the women of westeros
Were we watching the same show? The one that ends with Sansa as queen of the north and the only one who refuses to bend the knee to her own fucking brother? The one where Beric gets a cheap death so that Arya can kill the knight's king? The one where Jon loses literally everything for daring to kill Dany after she becomes an evil dictator? Where Cersei, the evil big bad for the last 4 seasons, gets a sad emotional but painless death in the arms of her lover?
What more did they want?
Did they want to see Tyrion give a monologue about how dictators are actually fine if they're female before chopping his own dick off so that he might never be tempted to be sexist again? Did they want Jon to serve as Dany's cock-on-demand who apologises for ever doubting her? Did they want Sansa to co-rule with Dany as her lesbian lover?
I genuinely don't see what more they could want other than for Dany's entire story for the ENTIRE show to be rewritten since her acts of violence were foreshadowed nonstop

Anything with Star Wars in the title would have bombed after TLJ, it was just a sacrifical lamb

The prevailing rumour is that TWOW was finished a while ago and they're just waiting for the right time to announce/publish it

This is why i love the Star Wars Tie Fighter game from 97. You are just a random nobody in the imperial war machine and most scenarios are actually about solving civil wars, maintaining order and normal stuff like that. It actually uses the setting not just an other rehashed jedi vs sith story.

>(though its still the ninth highest-grossing movie domestically this year)
What a nice cope. As if there was any doubt to the level of shilling. Remember when BvS and Suicide Squad both broke box-office records and the media did everything they could to pretend like no one was watching them?

this

>5 bad ones
you forgot about rogue one and solo.
it's 3 good movies against SEVEN bad ones

TLJ by a rather large margin. For starters, GoT wasn’t part of pop culture for nearly fifty years.

I truly hope this stops the wave of post-modernist trash that we keep getting. I'm so sick of bullshit like "BUT WHAT IF HERO IS BAD". Just tell interesting stories without trying to subvert everything, goddamn.

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Subverting expectations is a fucking disgrace. It's literally killing story telling

fuck you rogue one was decent

Rogue One is the only one I like, and even *it* did plenty of dumb shit.

Subverting expectations is fun when the writer isn't a mouthbreather and actually uses the unexpected elements to craft something original.

Nah GoT was good for a time ST wAs never good.

This. I mean obviously it doesnt need to be done all the time. But its not bad like those other anons are trying to imply. Its also got to be done the correct way. There has to be at least some subtle hints along the way. You cant pull shit like the Stranger Things Robin is a lesbian reveal.

Star Wars insulted its fans for not liking it and kept most the same ppl in charge.

AT&T at least is clearing house on HBO.

All three of these are spot-on.

GoT is an adaptation of a work - Star Wars IS the work. You can always have another, better adaptation later down the road. You can't undo something baked-in like Episode 8. So even though season 8 of GoT is worse than TLJ, TLJ did more damage to its respective series.

TLJ
We are still feeling shockwaves from how it nuked its franchise. A lot of shitty media seems to trace back to it somehow, and it certainly seems to have been the epicenter for a lot of franchise vs fan interactions. Specifically directors or writers vs a fanbase. It is also something that Disney has come to consider a burden, as TLJ killed whatever hype people had for the ST. Personally, it killed my interest in movies in general. I just don't want to see movies that much after seeing TLJ.

>hurr you say you think it's shit but you'll go see it anyway nerd

This argument gets trotted out every single time and it's not true. Star Wars merch sales plummeted after TLJ and Solo bombed. I'm just going to watch a camrip of 9 when it comes out

Yeah, a cultural landmark that created a whole generation of soiboys, faggots and "nerd"-parroting thots

They were both nihilistic works that ended in the same way. With nothing.

T-T-This?

In terms of quality, they were both dead since season 5 and episode I respectively.

In terms of popularity, season 8 was probably worse. TLJ was divisive but still praised by many critics; season 8 on the other hand was almost universally hated.

Releasing one movie every year is what really hurt SW's marketability, not the quality of the movies themselves. The prequels were almost as bad as the current trilogy, but releasing them 3 years apart probably kept them from becoming flops.

>People were defending the absolutely ghastly state of the writing that had beem going on since season 5 right up until the 3rd episode of the final season, then after the finale those same people suddenly joined the bandwagon hating D&D despite defending their trash for years.

Oh Christ, so much this. I can't even begin to enumerate how much shit I got from people for having less-than-enthusiastic opinions on GoT post-S5 - not even "I hate the show" or anything too drastic mind, just stuff like "I don't think it's as good as it was" or "they could've done better with [x] plot/character" type stuff. People got actively angry at me for not being super-positive about it.

Then those exact same people turned right around and suddenly decided it was the worst show ever, and started loathing it to a degree that massively eclipsed my own. It's all bandwagoners mang. I hate to borderline sound like one of those people trotting out NPC memes, but holy shit so many people literally just have opinions on media based on what the arbitrary consensus says. Same fucking thing happened to me after Episode 7 when I said "it was decent but nothing special" - got so much crap, then the people who gave me crap turned right around and talked shit on it like 6 months later.

Why does stuff like that happen? Obviously they're capable of thinking for themselves eventually, in the long run - so why can't they think critically right as it comes out? is hype culture that pervasive?

To be fair, while everything about season 8 is dogshit, it became abundantly clear this season that D&D couldn't write women this season. Every time Dany and Sansa talk they act like catty bitches to eachother and Arya is just reduced to "YAS QUEEN SLAY" fanservice. And Sansa is supposed to be the smartest character ever but we're never shown it, just always told. Although I will concede that out of all the charatcers they butchered, Jon got it the worst

Obviously TLJ because GoT is over.

user, the discrepancy is explained right there in your own pic:

>shortchanges the women of Westeros

If GoT S8 was equally as garbage as it ended up being but ended with Dany winning instead, all the same people giving it low scores would be giving it 9/10s and saying anyone who doesn't like it is a toxic incel manbaby gamer nerd etc., etc.

I think a lot of it was people cutting D&D some slack because we all figured that at the end the rushed plotlines and weaker writing would at least lead to an entertaining conclusion. Oh, how wrong they were. It's like a badly made piece of pottery, if you slack off halfway through making it and try to set it down cracks will shoot up from the end to the middle

Shazam! does a great job of subversion properly. What Billy’s been chasing his whole life is a fantasy, but it earns him the actual wisdom to recognize that fact. What Sivana has been chasing is a reality, but his horrid, dysfunctional family left him a broken sociopath incapable of ever really enjoying it.

That's anecdotal evidence though. For example, I know a bunch of people who thought TLJ was shit, of several races, genders, age ranges etc. (so not just le white male boogeyman that keeps getting trotted out to explain the dislike of the film). But that's equally as worthless as your metric, since we're just random anons who know other random people.

This.

The problem with GoT and TLJ wasn't that they were subversive - it's that D&D and Rian (respectively) used "subversion" as a blanket excuse to downplay any criticism of the show/film.

i.e. "Oh, you thought [x] plot point was poorly written, or [character]'s motivation was confusing? Well joke's on you, it was bad on purpose, because I was subverting your expectation that [thing] would make sense! Get it? I was just PRETENDING to be retarded! Boy do you look foolish now :^)"

The fact that D&D and Rian are working together on the next Star Wars film after IX has me deeply, genuinely, morbidly curious.

Is that park actually empty? I feel like idiots are always at Disney year round

Star Wars was dead and raped far, far before TLJ. By almost twenty fucking years.

Season 8 effectively turned the most profitable adult drama into the least liked television show by almost all people.

>is hype culture that pervasive?

Yes. There are a vast number of people who, while perfectly capable of forming their own opinions, are too lazy/complacent to do so. When it comes right down to it, what they get mad about when someone disagrees is born of a combination of cognitive dissonance and exasperation over actually having to think.

>You're no good to me dead
>We need you

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Star Wars, not even a contest. GoT season 8 wasn't even a huge drop in quality, it was just the straw that broke the camel's back and made normalfags finally wake up to how shitty the show had been for the last several seasons. But episode 8 basically destroyed Star Wars as a profitable movie franchise.

The anger is what confuses me, I guess. I don't think I've ever been angry at some one else's opinion about a piece of art - the only thing that's made me exasperated is when I have an opinion, someone gets angry about said opinion, and then they proceed to parrot my opinion some time later. But the actual act of having an opinion on a piece of media doesn't make me angry even if it's completely the opposite of my own.

So why is there this large population of people who get out-and-out mad whenever someone doesn't like a thing they like? And why are they so prone to proceed to dislike it themselves later on? It's such an oddly specific trend, but it keeps happening.

D&D were using buzzwords to cover up their lack of ideas. But Rian genuinely thought he was being brilliant and subversive, as in that was something he set out to do when making the movie and his choices were deliberately done with that in mind. D&D just lazily did whatever and then called it whatever in order to excuse their hackery.

D&D's kind of laziness made the show turn to garbage a long time ago, but Rian's wannabe autuerism ruined a film that was set up to succeed in every way.

what was so bad about got season 8 anyways

Season 8, because Star Wars has been shit for ages, but GoT had been shit for not quite ages.

Idk. On one hand you have GoT. Where the early seasons were truly great. You had people putting it up there with The Sopranos as some of the greatest shows ever. But D&D are so fucking incompetent that by the end they managed to ruin the show for basically everyone and, taken as a whole, the show cant be considered as anything more than mediocre.

Then you have SW. One of the most recognizable brands on the planet. Now backed by one of the biggest entertainment companies on the planet. Sure the prequels were considered a misstep by many, but there was still tons of hype before the sequel movies came out. Well TFA came out with a whimper. There was the complete debacle over TLJ. Now a brand that has always made tons of money is hardly profitable. Even with as many people who hated the prequels, merchandise from those films always made a killing. Hype for the franchise is at an all time low. All this being said i do think the last film will still be a success financially. Most people will probably see it as if its some sort of obligation

If you put it on a continuum with the rest of the show, there isn't much to distinguish its badness from the last few seasons. Pretty much every complaint you can make about it was present in season 7, and most of them were still there in season 6 and season 5. Season 5 is where quality took a noticeable, sharp dive, but even then it's just an increase in decline, not a sudden veer into it after years of stability or improved quality. GoT is one of those shows that began degrading in quality immediately after the first season. It started very slight, so season 2 was mostly still good with only a few flaws, but those flaws snowballed so that season 3 was a little harder to enjoy, and by season 4 they were having to pull things out of their ass to explain stuff, and by season 5 it was unrecoverable and they'd fucked it up beyond the point of recovery. After season 5 the show becomes mostly fan fiction.

Look up “TED talks: on being wrong.”

It does a fantastic job of laying out the underlying psychology of the anger that arises over opposing viewpoints. It’s ultimately born out of an assessment of the opposing party’s morality/honesty.

Not really true. GoT was still pretty fucking great up until about season 5. Season 6 took another step in the wrong direction but there was still moments. Season 7 was a fucking nose dive into shit. And season 8 was just the smoldering wreckage.

The prequels were designed to be good enough to break even, the important thing was the merchandise. That's how Lucas made his fortune after the original movies and he realized that was the real pot of gold his Star Wars franchise was sitting on. All he had to do was make movies that allowed the franchise to sell toys. They didn't have to be great movies, they just had to be good enough to not ruin the brand. Disney fucked up by hiring Rian Johnson, who basically set out to disrupt the Star Wars brand intentionally. Only problem is he was too incompetent to turn his disruption into anything good.

>Leia gives up on her son
>Luke gives up on his twin sisters only child and tries to murder him in his sleep because he sensed some dark thoughts

>that’s how we win. Not by fighting what we hate. But saving what we love

Bravo rian.

Season 5 was fucking terrible. It was at that point I stopped making excuses for the show. What they did to the Dornish characters was unforgivable. 100% fan fiction and it was the worst garbage I'd ever seen on modern TV in terms of writing. Dialogue also started to suffer noticeably in season 5, but it took until season 7 for them to completely run out of book lines to quote and then we were at the mercy of D&D.

I think the big thing with the prequels was that they were shit mostly due to the writing. Beyond that the prequels really did have some interesting ideas and settings. Which I think is the reason merchandise for them sold so well.

honestly in my opinion if George was a better writer the story the prequels were trying to tell could have been better than the OT

Yeah Rian Johnson is a fucking hack. Comes off as the kind of guy who thinks he is smarter than he really is. I gave disney a little bit of slack with TFA since it was their first SW film and it made sense for them to play it safe. But damn they just keep dropping the ball. Its amazing really.

>it was the worst garbage I'd ever seen on modern TV in terms of writing
Seems like youre being a bit fucking dramatic here. But sure ill conceed a little bit here. Ill say maybe season 5 was the first sign that things might go to shit. They did some dumb shit, like killing Barristan or having Stannis burn Shireen (both of which are worse than "what they did to dornish characters"). But even still outside of some of the dumb shit the season was still following along with the books. Again season 6 is when they took a major step in the wrong direction and gave their first real hint that they couldn't handle the series without the books guidance.

certified fresh

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GoT did zero damage.

I mean honestly the movie was pretty kino

t. Paul Feig

If that happened, it wouldn't be garbage at all

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based Emilia

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It's also about the overarching symbolism, because it would be salvageable if it was only her or at least a minor character giving up, but her stance and her brother's at the same time, basically nullify the point of the entire saga at having a Resistance. What is the point to even pretend to be against the "Dark Side" when "your side" is right now either soft-evil or neutral at best when you can't even forgive anymore?

Not only it doesn't make sense compared to the histories of those characters (especially Luke), but if it can be stretched to make sense it turns the story banal and uninteresting:

Rian was one of those brainlets that thought "everyone is a little evil inside" is cool but that's both overdone and uninspired. Fucking take a walk on the street, nobody is evil or a saint, congratulations, you turned an amazing saga into banal mediocrity .

The very fact the saga was about redemption of even the most dangerous person in the galaxy is what made it spectacular. Luke wouldn't give up even when Vader himself was telling him to leave him alone.

I'm sure Abrams may try to rewrite back that nonsense but that won't make TLJ great, and Abrams is only good at making comfy reboots, he's not going to bring originality, Disney never does it well anyway.

No. They just give more access to people who treat their movies to good reviews.

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Bros if the superfans, who collect and consume literally anything related to Star Wars, hated The Last Jedi then you know it was a shitty movie.

>Ned’s execution
>the red wedding
>Sansas rape
>Rickons murder
>Bolton cruelty

And the North did nothing. They didn’t even betray Ramsay. The North fought to the bitter end for the Boltons. It took Wildings and Valemen to liberate Winterfell. “The North Remembers” is a joke.