Where did it all go wrong?

you take that back
>t. 18 year old who grew up watching the series and had a NAJOR childhood crush on billie piper
that one episode where she gets possesed by Cassandra and has her shirt sightly unbuttoned the whole time fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

billie piper is hot. My 10yo self would beat your ass for this comment

>Moffats writing made me feel like I had missed episodes
I've been waiting for years for someone to concisely put into words my thoughts on the Moffatt era and here it is. Series 6 is unwatchable because of this.

>Steven Moffat, and his awful writing skills.
He's a good writer, but a terrible show runner.

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Fucking WATCH THIS and don't come back to this thread until you realise how braindead your post was.

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>that one episode where she gets possesed by Cassandra and has her shirt sightly unbuttoned the whole time
mfw discovering secret diary of a call girl

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Did billie piper ever get her tits out?

not a ten, but a very attractive 8

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That's a really, really bad photo of her. She's cute AF in motion. As others have suggested, watch Diary of a Call Girl to see.

>He's a good writer
No he isn't. He has an obsession with making all his character's smug smartarses, everything has to be a joke, and (like RTD) everything has to be the most important thing in the history of the universe. Although unlike RTD, he never utilised the budget to make it feel like these things were most important things in the universe.

I enjoyed RTD's stories more because he was aware that he's doing 6/10 show. Moffat tried to make everything epic and 9/10 and failed.

nice

Moffat

You have TEN SECONDS to explain in depth why you don't like Moffat, without using the words "the writing"
you can't

The writing
>record scratch
The writing
>record scratch
The writing

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redpilled

>explain in depth why you don't like this shows writer without talking about his writing
What else is there to talk about retard?

Clara my clara isn't clara great clara clara clara.

>mfw I have no idea who those fucks are

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Clara was good with 12 but not 11

muh rose
rose would know what to do
ROSE WOULD CARE
YOU'RE NOT ROSE

Are you able to elaborate on what specifically about the writing you didn't like?

lmao martha getting mogged by a girl who wasn't even there

he's a fucking retard who ruined the weeping angels, his only good monster, and then ruined the rest of nu-Doctor Who with his gay characters and shit stories.

worth it for Heaven Sent

not an argument
try again

based boomer

>that episode where the daleks are breaking out of canary wharf while trying to protect the arc thing from cybermen and soldiers
that was fucking based
went shit not soon after though

How about the fact that Moffat continually retconned the Doctor's personal past to force his own retarded headcanon in?
>The reason the Doctor left Galiffrey in the first place was the hybrid prophecy about Clara, that apparently everyone in the universe knew about but hasn't mentioned until now
>The reason the Doctor picked his specific Tardis was because Clara told him to
>The Doctor's biggest fear is the dark - caused by Clara
>The two most important people the Doctor has ever met (River Song and Clara) were met within a year of each other - both were also retconned in to have met his previous incarnations too for no reason
He took every possible opportunity to turn a 50 year old show into his own pet project with no shits given for all the other countless writers who have worked on the show in the past. Digging up the Brigadier for no reason and the 1st Doctor just to make him a huge asshole was also bullshit

Or his retarded multi-season 'plotline' that makes all of Smith's run borederline unwatchable. That ultimately ended up going nowhere and had no actual conclusion.
But that retarded bait and switch is the foundation for ALL of his writing since he took over as showrunner. Every finale relies on some retarded twist where you think a character dies but then they come back, because fuck consequencecs for things. RTD finales get a lot of shit for doing the 'MORE DALEKS THAN EVER BEFORE' shit but they always had some emotional stake underlying them.
RTD:
>S1 finale: 9th Doctor dies
>S2 finale: Rose leaves
>S3 finale: Martha leaves
>S4 finale: Donna leaves
>S4 specials finale: 10th Doctor dies
Moffat:
>S5 finale: The Doctor dies! (but actually doesn't)
>S6 finale: The Doctor dies! (but actually doesn't)
>S7a finale: Amy and Rory die! (but they actually don't)
>S7b finale: The Doctor dies! (but actually doesn't)
>S8 finale: Nothing happens at all
>S9 finale: Clara dies! (but actually doesn't)
>S10 finale: Bill dies! (but actually doesn't)

Moffat, thats where it went wrong

Moffat killed it. Now Chibnall is raping its corpse.

>The reason the Doctor left Galiffrey in the first place was the hybrid prophecy about Clara, that apparently everyone in the universe knew about but hasn't mentioned until now
literally untrue, in Hell Bent he clearly states he was lying about that

>The reason the Doctor picked his specific Tardis was because Clara told him to
who gives a shit

>The Doctor's biggest fear is the dark - caused by Clara
that wasn't what happened in that episode at all

>The two most important people the Doctor has ever met (River Song and Clara) were met within a year of each other - both were also retconned in to have met his previous incarnations too for no reason
River song was met by 10 when he was 904
Clara was met by 11 when he was over 1100 years old

do you even watch the show?

miss me yet?

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This. Also to add that while Davies turned it into a teenage soap opera with romance and sexuality becoming a big part of the characterizations of the guest characters, as well as the female companions overt obsession with the Doctor, it was Moffat who took it even further and kept the focus even more on the companions while turning the overall show into a fantasy fairy tale. Not that it was ever hard scifi, but if Davies had gotten the show out of the ditch and driving on flat road, Moffat steered the car off the road into a picturesque looking river. Chibnall is just driving it further into the middle of the river.

"We've kind of got to tell a lie. We'll go back into history and there will be black people where, historically, there wouldn't have been, and we won't dwell on that.

"We'll say, 'To hell with it, this is the imaginary, better version of the world. By believing in it, we'll summon it forth'."

>uh no actually
At least make an effort

I provided references to the episodes, which is more than could be said about your argument

they weren't out of place, unless you believe the Romans were an all white aryan empire

and if out of everything that's the thing take you out of an entire episode, you've got problems

His regeneration scene was total anti-climactic bullshit

>there are people in this thread right now who prefer the TV series to Big Finish

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imagine actually defending big finish
which extra is going to get a box set announced this week?

Even with all of Moffats writings bullshit, you have to admit the first four Nu Who seasons look like trash. Worse cinematography than a marvel flick and the camera always has a piss/grey filter.

You are fucking braindead. It wasn't just episodes with Romans in that he did this you fucking idiot. It's not what I take out of an entire episode, I take it out of his entire run, because that is what he is referring to, his decisions over his entire run. And he did it for political reasons because he hates white people. You are so fucking stupid.

God I hate Br*ts

>defending fucking big finish
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>"Oh my god, I'm a Chav!"

>I don't agree with your reason
>Moves goal posts

Go and fuck yourself, I literally lmao at people who don't wake up every morning British.

Boring stories

>he hates white people
proofs

Are you still insisting that clara and river song were introduced one year apart even though that is objectively, quantifiably untrue?

If you ignore the spin off shit, which is easy to do since they're clearly recognizable as spin offs, the main line and the 4th and 8th doctor adventures are solid Doctor Who.

Jago & Litefoot, et al were more than just extras (also if should be Duggan from City of Death)
stay mad RTD fiend

That's not even my post. But I was talking irl time not in-universe. Assumed that much should be obvious.
Technically it WAS 2 years though since they were two seasons apart. So you can have your petty victory and continue ignoring 90% of the content of the post.

I'm not the user you originally replied to, but I definitely agree with his statement on the weeping angels. It's like turning Jason Vorhees from a single killer into a race of hockey masked killers.

Moffatt fags are the stupidest bunch of retards of any group of fans in all of popular culture. They will discount any reason why you dislike his run. You have to understand they genuinely love all his crap he crowbarred into the programme. They love Clara and Missy and Capaldi. And they make it harder to argue with them for two reasons: 1. They will ignore everything you say as just mentioned and 2. they have watched his shit more than once or twice so they know the minutia you've long since forgotten and can bare watching his series again to find the details.

say what you want about the quality of the Moff's writing and his inane story arcs. But Peter was without a doubt meant to play the Doctor, and delivered a masterful performance despite the constraints placed on him (Ecc is good too)

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River song was introduced in 2008
Clara was 2012
You're still wrong

>Technically it WAS 2 years though since they were two seasons apart
River: Season 4
None: Specials, Season 5, Season 6
Clara: Season 7

>it's hard to argue with moffat fans because they actually know the details of what they're arguing about
hmmmmmm

>that episode where she plays along with the guys foodplay kink
kino

If you're counting the one-off mystery box in S4 then sure. But River's ''''''''''''''plotline'''''''''''''''' didn't start until S5 and didn't become important until S6. The Doctor didn't even know her until A Good Man Goes To War except for knowing that he WOULD know get to know her eventually.

>FINGERS ON BUZZERS
Capaldi managed to polish the turds but when he was given a genuinely good scene he was a one man kino factory

I disagree. I believe he was seriously miscast. He lacked the athleticism and the way the Doctor had moved since Troughton to physically be the Doctor. Hartnell seemed more mobile than him half the time.

the man's a brilliant actor and a lifelong fan, winning combo right there

What was that about moving the goalposts?

Are you me?

>moffatt was a better writer
He is a great writer but he relies too much on the grandoise of the character he’s writing for and it gave the doctor this annoying sense of self imporance.

>who gives a shit
I give a shit retard. It's insulting to retcon a 50 year old show just so you can make your OC even more special.

Britbong here, who the fuck says this? She looks like a chimp

It's like arguing with a furry about the best kind of costume to wear. You can't really win because the thing as a whole is too awful to bear going into and seriously finding out.

>He lacked the athleticism
Yes, because Doctor Who is a better running through space corridors now

The doctor's tardis has never been special. It doesn't matter why he picked a specific one.

thoughts on pting?

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haven't seen season 11, looks like a classic precoversion Cybermat fucked an Adipose

It does if the reason is because some awful fanfic woman is officially the reason why the Doctor picks the TARDIS, a relationship with man and machine that his female companions have long since found funny and incomprehensible

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This is a complete lie, though. His tardis is one of the defining things about the series. It constantly had new forms which would become sets that they used for large amounts of episodes, and it was basically the defining image of Doctor Who, because of how it always appeared as a police box. You basically don’t see any other Tardis

The tardis has external meta value as an iconic object. In-universe, it's a piece of scrap he stole to run away. There's no mystical importance to the tardis - if you put it on a pedestal like that, it's your fault for being retarded

>aktually theres a discrepency in your dates
Literally the lowest form of arguments.
You don't see anything wrong with both of Moffat's characters being the two most important people in the Doctor's entire history? Now no other writer can top that, there will never be another important companion and every previous companion is worthless by virtue of not being Clara/River.

THAT's the problem people have with Moffat. Everything he does has to be bigger and better than everyone else to cement that it's HIS show and nobody else's. He had to be the guy to bring back Galiffrey in the most non-sensical way possible. He had to be the guy to break the 12 regenerations rule - even going as far as to retcon in 2 new regenerations just to inflate the count, can't let some future writer steal HIS big moment.

It's literally the most iconic part of Doctor Who and one of the most iconic things in sci-fi and British culture as a whole. Which is exactly why Moffat knew he had to make it belong to him.

>You basically don’t see any other Tardis
don't do the Master and the Rani dirty like that senpai

NO NO NO HOW CAN YOU LIKE MOFFAT??? I DON'T CARE IF THE RTD ERA TURNED THE SHOW INTO A SOAP OPERA AND I DON'T CARE IT AGED LIKE COWSHIT, I JUST WANT THE SHOW TO BE LIKE A MARVEL MOVIE!!!

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he has a fetish for guys marching in formation. seriously, how many episodes had that?

- Jidoon (hot rhinos in tight leather pants)
- Daleks in Manhattan with construction workers taken over
- any number of Cybermen episodes

implying someone who would make such an autistic argument would have seen classic who

The Master's tardis appeared in a number of episodes. Off the top of my head, it was an organ in a storage lot I think. Another time it was a stone column.

>Moffat seasons featured a literal capeshit episode

>Moffat knew he had to make it belong to him
You are severely overvaluing a literal 5 second scene that has never been referenced or acknowledged once since

I'm not gonna lie, the reason I like Clara is that she's the modern companion I most want to put my dick inside

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And it was nothing like a marvel movie

in his first appearance it was a giant ass fucking van, and I still love that

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>Cracks appearing in time and space
>Caused by the Tardis exploding
>Doctor reboots the entire universe so the cracks go away forever
>The Tardis exploded because of the Silence (times the Silence accidentally ended the universe by trying to prevent the Doctor from ending the universe:1)
>Silence are trying to kill The Doctor because of a prophecy he's gonna go to Trenzalore and say his name which ends the universe
>Kidnap Melody Pond and raise her as an assassin to kill the Doctor
>Melody/River Song kills the Doctor at that lake and it's a fixed point in time
>She then falls in love with the Doctor and doesn't kill him despite it being a fixed point in time
>This creates an alt-timeline where the universe will end if she doesn't kill him (times the Silence accidentally ended the universe by trying to prevent the Doctor from ending the universe:2)
>She then kills him and saves the universe
>But SURPRISE, it was just a robot that looked like the Doctor the entire time, so it wasn't even a fixed point so really nothing should have happened because nothing DID happen
>Entire universe forgets that The Doctor exists because they think he's dead.
>The Daleks also forget the Doctor exists at around the same time because Clara wiped their memories somehow
>Both of these 'plot points' are forgotten about within a couple of episodes
>Impossible Girl shit happens, confirming the Doctor does actually die on Trenzalore
>Rest of it makes no sense either but I can't even be arsed to get into it
>Then the Doctor goes back to Trenzalore to die with no more regenerations but Clara asks the timelords nicely for some more regenerations and they give it to him
>Which means the Doctor never died on Trenzalore, meaning everything that happened was pointless and the Impossible Girl shit can't have happened at all
>Gallifrey then comes back through the cracks in time. The same cracks that don't exist anymore because the Doctor stopped them from existing because the Tardis never exploded

He means you argue exclusively on technicalities and semantics. You don't give a shit about the overall narrative, character arcs or anything important. Because if you did you wouldn't be Moffat fans.

I am the Master, and you shall _____ me

Oh my dear Doctor, you have been _____

If your argument is just a broad generalization and you can't back it up with direct references and proof, you are an idiot without an argument

This is what perfect casting looks like

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Oh yeah I forgot
>Galiffrey comes back without the Doctor even having to say his name, so the prophecy wasn't true either

I don't think there's ever been a serious miscasting of the Master, everyone has been great. Pratt would have been great if not for the mask limiting his performance, and Roberts has done much better on Audio, benefiting from better direction

I'm arguing about things that happen throughout the entire run constantly. We all know what we're talking about when I say Clara is awful and made every episode she was in worse purely through her presence. We all know because we all watched it and remembered it. Direct references require rewatching something we already know we dislike from 5+ years ago, but it's pointless because as I say, we all know what we're talking about because we've all seen it. It's like trying to prove the sky is blue. Without precise knowledge of wavelengths and refraction and colour and vision, it would be difficult. But it's pointless because we can see that the SKY IS BLUE.

The Doctor’s TARDIS has a personality that Moffatt and Gaiman made explicit. There are more than enough stories to suggest that she is a very special machine, most especially to the Doctor.

>she's bad because she's bad and we all know it!
Literally, objectively not an argument.

Please ______ carefully

Explaining why Clara's character is awful has been done to death. You love Moffatt and will choose to ignore it anyway. The thing about her choosing the TARDIS for the Doctor, and the Impossible Girl bollocks has already been brought up in this thread and explained and you ignored it all, either literally or moved the goalposts to suit anything you want. She's too perfect, never disagrees with or counterbalances her Doctor (apart from the horrendously over the top and melodramatic series 9), and she's also the most important person in the universe because Moffatt deems her to be without proving it.

Clara fans like her because of the capaldi era, and you're obsessing over her first 7 episodes before her real story began.

I absolutely fucking hate rose . She looks disgusting and talks with that annoying goddamn accent where th is ph or v fuck off fucking fucker.

>you're obsessing over her first 7 episodes before her real story began
I'm not, it was one example from this thread symbolising your willful ignorance and why people dislike Clara. I also brought up series 9. Series 8 is not even worth mentioning because the Danny Pink tiredness came and went without a single fuck given.

Kek, I don't remember that one. That's great.

You act like I am the one with willful ignorance, when you have not once shown any interest in discussing clara properly at all. Every point you make is as quick and broad as you can possibly make it. You are not open to having your opinion changed, you are only seeking validation.

And you're only seeking to whiteknight a fictional character.

Who ended with the final Eighth Doctor Adventure, The Gallifrey Chronicles, in 2005.
>And he leaps...

>cities made of smoke, and people made of song
Survival was such a good ending.

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>when you have not once shown any interest in discussing Clara properly at all
Because I don't like her character, nor what Moffatt did with her character to the DW canon so flagrantly and self-satisfyingly. I would rather talk about any number of other things in Doctor Who that are far more interesting and better but Moffatt fans like you come into everyone of these threads and shit them up exactly how you've done it. I think it's necessary to shut down your bollocks as quickly as possible so some other discussion can be had, but you persist.

What's to discuss about her?

>no! other opinions bad! mine only!

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She's a character study on the consequences of a human acting like the doctor

She just lies about everything and is totally empty inside. She's BPD.

>mfw trying to comprehend the leaps required to come to that conclusion

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>I am trying to shut down an opinion as quickly as possible so the thread can be about things I like instead

You're intentionally misconstruing my argument to suit your meme picture. Your unfounded love for Moffatt and Clara (which you've never explained) always ruins threads like this because people feel a compulsion to tell you you're wrong because you are, and I've explained why you are. Then the threads descend into exactly what they have.

You haven't explained anything, you have only given broad generalizations with no substance, and you have no interest in explaining anything because you have no interest in changing your mind.

>the camera always has a piss/grey filter
I found it comfy for some reason but i guess it is because first season of nu who came out when i was 17. Also i like the soundtrack
youtube.com/watch?v=FRrOI7By5fc

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You're the one who's sum total of responses to what others have said is "who cares", "that doesn't matter" and "well you're technically wrong if..."

It's been so long ago but you joined the thread by saying that people should quickly explain why people don't like Moffatt and already erected goalposts.

And you completely ignored a number of posts that perfectly counter your points concisely and effectively and argued with others down with minutia, goalpost moving and "lol who cares"

If you're going to dismiss being proven wrong by deflecting and saying "yeah well that's just a technicality so it doesn't matter", you aren't actually interested in discussion

You're welcome to quote these posts so I can address it

He never knew when enough was enough. If he liked something, he'd milk it dry. The Angels didn't need to come back. The Victorian gang didn't need to come back. River didn't need to derail Amy and Rory's arc.

Watch the original River Song two parter and "The Husbands of River Song" after and tell me there needed to be any more to that story.

>all things about the start of moff's era, not the second half

Rag on Moffatt all you want but season 5 was the best written the reboot's been

Congratulations on agreeing with me

Creatively bankrupt, wrote too many episodes himself.

Maisie Williams was also there for some reason. What was the point of any of that?

See"Rose" is the best written episode of nuWho

S1 > S3 > S5

S9 > S8 > S5 > S1 > S10 > S4 > S3 > S2 > S7 > S6 > S11

Chibnall has put a dead body in the car and set ablaze with gasoline.

Nice rear bumper

I just went through 1-5 again since I last saw them 10 years ago. Despite its faults, I loved it, and it was nice to relive it all over again. With that being said, I want the show to be cancelled, the current climate surrounding sci-fi will result in its utter tarnished reputation and downfall if it’s allowed to continue. I don’t care for Star Trek or Star Wars, but Doctor Who is an almost 60 year British icon that I don’t wish for current entertainment people to vandalise.

She looks like my 17 year old sister.

Too fairy tale like. Removed the mystery of the Doctor and also turned him into a grand legend. Series long arcs with odd structure resulting in entire seasons drawing upon a blank.

why is it that Moffat's episodes during RDT doctor who were kino but when Moffat took over fully everything turned a bit shitty?

I hate what they’ve done to this show. A show that I have huge affection for. A show that I fully intend for my children to inherit. I work at the BBC and will make it my life’s mission to enact a scorched-earth policy in regards to what they’ve done to this show. See you in 10 years, lads.

he's an egomaniac who doesn't know how to keep himself in check

holy fuck... this brings back so many memories

He was dealt a shit hand with the writing.
The only good episode in his entire run is Heaven sent. However that episode is fucking amazing and its shocking that it comes amidst the season 6-10 fuckfest

He’s full of his own shit. RDJ and Moffat grew up loving the show, but when Moffat came to run the show he interjected his own retarded head canon (as illuminated by old forum posts) which was combined with his huge ego.

Simply put, he desperately wanted to put his own stamp on the series and couldn’t stop.

You guys think the show will be cancelled? Or maybe should be cancelled.

Is there a good torrent to classic series? I saw one on piratebay, is that fine?

what's your favourite episode from nuwho, lads? mine would have to be either waters of mars or midnight

Best doctor right there in OPs pic.

Torchwood was superior

It became increasingly political and left leaning after it took off in America during series 5.

For some reason they've been courting the tumblr and twitter fanbase for a while now.

>what is The Empty Child

>For some reason they've been courting the tumblr and twitter fanbase for a while now.

youtube.com/watch?v=YCF12_Qukz0
The writers prob just watch shit liek that and enjoy it

The sound design
Lime jesus christ the effects are bad and the levels are all over the place

Bad Wolf

Davies was a great show runner while Moffat was a good writer. But when Moffat took over he hired a gimpy looking cunt (Matt Smith) and tried to make DW into Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy .

After season 4 of NuWho they should have taken it to the big screen and made a series of movies with a new companion.

!!!FACT!!!

>same guy who wrote Adrift is responsible for the current Dr Who season
How in the fuck

>He's a good writer, but a terrible show runner.

100% correct.

>No he isn't.

Blink and Girl in The Fireplace are masterpieces and what got me into Doctor Who. Before that I HATED the show!!!FACT!!!

also the library two-parter was kino

How can one user be so right?

Moffat's need for epic twists ruined the series
Same thing happened to Sherlock

RTD is a better writer than Moffat AND a better businessman. Moffat couldn't write characters, or even stories, for that matter, because he's fixated on proving his own cleverness and wanking the Doctor off as his own self-insert. All of his female characters have the same voice - snarky sassy flirty - all of his dialogue is sub-Whedonesque "witty" banter, and his grandiose speeches are either so pompous and self-important, or schmaltzy and sentimental, as to become parody.

Even his alleged greatest work - Heaven Sent - falls apart and into nothingness on a second viewing, because the machinery of the plot is even more obvious than the mechanics of the castle, and the entire narrative hinges on a plot hole which completely undermines the world-building - something which is typical of Moffat. The Doctor is trapped in a castle whose layout is constantly changing and resetting - he can never make any progress in the maze because every room resets upon exiting. Oh, wait - except for when it doesn't, and Moffat needs it to stop doing that for anything to actually happen in the plot. There's no rhyme or reason for the castle suddenly not doing exactly what we were told it did - it's completely random and arbitrary, dictated only by the needs of the author to get his character from A to B.

Oh, and, finally - Moffat kept sticking his dick in the Doctor's past for absolutely no fucking reason, trying to inseminate the character's history with his own shitty characters and details. For some reason, all of Moffat's companions are 1000x more important than any other companion the Doctor travelled with. For some fucking reason, we're told that the Doctor's greatest fear is a corpse shroud from Gallifrey - despite having confronted creatures of literal nightmare, and dealt with a thousand mutilated corpses across hundreds of episodes. This is not profound - this is stupid.

Not on the rewatch.

Moff's best (and only good) episodes are Empty Child/ Doctor Dances, Blink, and Listen. Maybe Pandorica Opens if you're feeling generous.

>What is Midnight
>What is Human Nature/ The Family of Blood
>What is The Empty Child/ The Doctor Dances

Nah, two many shit episodes. Remember S5 had:

The Beast Below (shit)
Victory of the Daleks (double shit)
The Angels 2-parter (ruined the angels)
The Silurian 2-parter (Chibnalls' boring bollocks)
The Vampires of Venice (literally Doctor Who: paint by numbers, the most generic episode of all time)

The only good episodes were Eleventh Hour, Amy's Choice, and Pandorica Opens.

Lodger was average.

Good point desu

>Me
>Nardole
>The Paternoster Gang
>Missy Missy Missy Missy Missy

>and Capaldi
Fuck you, the only thing wrong with his seasons were the scripts.

Series 2 was pretty shit in hindsight. 1 was excellent and 3 and 4 were decent

Lodger has James Corden making it dogshit by default.

I'm surprised it wasn't after the ratings series 11 got. 12 is going to kill it for real unless the writing quality improves a lot and Whittaker stops being such a flat actor.

It's funny that RTD had so many memorable characters that he could do a 20-minute fanwank sequence and you could name every minor character.
Moffat's era had no memorable characters so he couldn't do one of those. The only memorable ones are either shit (River Song, at least Alex Kingston is hot I guess) or dead (Amy, Rory).

Clara wasn't good with anyone or anything, she had a new personality every week. We're supposed to believe she's a control freak in Deep Breath despite her never acting like one.
Her only saving grace is that Jenna Coleman could tear my foreskin off with her teeth and I'd still want to fuck her brains out.

make the same monster over and over again but slightly different
>oh this one moves when you blink
>oh this one moves when your back is turned
>oh this one teleports back in time behind you
>oh this one wipes your memory when you see it so you never know if it's there
>oh this one dabs on you if you stare at it too long

You made one reference to Hell Bent. Wow.
The shit the guy said is easily connected to a specific episode, you say "did you even watch the show", but if you don't understand what episode he's talking about for each point you're actually retarded.

they should have given him more comedy episodes
>the doctor goes to not!hogwarts and everyone makes fun of his wand and his "science"

He turned the doctor into a superhero fighting evil instead of a traveller solving problems

he cute

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The organ was actually the 6th Doctor's TARDIS

>Which means the Doctor never died on Trenzalore, meaning everything that happened was pointless and the Impossible Girl shit can't have happened at all
That's the bit that annoys me at all. The blatant disregard for paradoxes is annoying.

Ha ha ha ha ha
HA HA HA HA HA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>Not watching Sesskasays for her tits
She's one of the few who's watching Classic Who as well

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Moffat can be a good idea man but his character writing can be obnoxious and he's generally not great at wrapping things up, he bites off more than he can chew. That said I liked Series 5, maybe because it was closest in structure to RTDs, but after that he started to experiment more and it I don't think it recovered after that. Capaldi had some kino here and there though, so Moffat didn't lose his spark entirely, but Chibnall who is just trash, so boring. It might as well go on hiatus.

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>only 16,189 days to go until the Doctor Who 100th anniversary special
Time flies when you're having fun

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The 50th was one of the worst episodes of television I've ever seen

>tfw Eccleston, Tennant, Smith, Capaldi, etc. will all either be dead or way too old to make an appearance
>they bring them back with badly-done cgi and voice impressionists

Moffat wrote the best episodes of RTD's run though. Blink, Empty Child, Midnight, the Library (though that also introduced River Song, who to people that dislike Moffat's run can be a bit shite in retrospect)
I think you mean RTD writes better overarching plots, while Moffat is better at stand alone episodes or two parters,

All that said I loved Matt Smith's doc and Amy and Rory.
Dislike Clara once we get up to Capaldi, but she was moderately okay during Smith's parts, which doesn't say much because that was what, half a season?

>The Beast Below (shit)
Why do people hate that one, I really liked it.

>Midnight
Was rtd lad

>who gives a shit

It is pretty major, especially considering it came after the Doctor's Wife which was probably the best episode of NuWho all around.

>The Vampires of Venice
That one was so dumb. Some vampire fish aliens wanted to live on Earth so they decided to flood Venice to live in. But why not just live in the massive ocean we already have?
And just once I'd like to see the aliens take up the Doctor's offer to find a planet for them to live on. They had no reason to say no except for plot.

Midnight was RTD, Girl in the Fireplace was Moffats other episode, also god-tier though.

it's a pleb filter

I'd say she's better with the 11th
I honestly don't think the stuff with the Impossible Girl is that bad. Narrative wise it only had any real impact on Asylum and the Christmas special.
So what if she was supposedly there for the other Doctors, that's literally a non issue because they can't actually go back and change the early works, and you'd have to be literally autistic to be watching say, a 4th Doctor episode and be fuming that Clara might be in there somewhere you can't see

Oh shit, so it was. Apologies mates.
Yeah, Girl in the Fireplace as well. I forget that one was Moffat
Point is Moffat's really amazing when he's not doing the overaching plot. Because he always writes extremely grandiose. Even during the RTD ones, there was a grandeur to his episodes. For example the Empty Child showing the Doctor coping with the PTSD by finally getting to save everyone in an episode after the Time War. But because that was contained to that one episode, it didn't get a chance to become shit.

>So what if she was supposedly there for the other Doctors, that's literally a non issue because they can't actually go back and change the early works
So why write an episode that does just that? Nobody else feels the need to constantly insert their characters into the past to make them more important. Moffat just does it because he can't write characters that develop in real time so he needs to inflate our feelings towards them artificially.

>write an episode that does just that

Again, nothing they do in the present can actually change the early works. The most they've done is bring the 1st played by another actor during that special with Capaldi.
Clara was pretty bad in Capaldi's run because she was insufferable, stuck up, constantly validated by the universe around her when she shouldn't have been.
During Smith's run she wasn't nearly as grating.

>constantly validated by the universe around her
That was the point of s9, that the doctor kept doing too much to help her that it was damaging reality itself and they had to cut off their relationship before it got worse

It doesn't make it any less shit.
She's a stuck up cunt and doesn't ever get better. Amy started out as a cunt but became the best companion because she actually evolved as a character far more than the others.

I just watched it for the cuties.

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Ace isn't in any of the nu-who episodes though

Not in Dw, but...

The writing was probably at it's best during the Moffat era, 9 and 10 are the best series imo

Most people prefer the RTD era due to nostalgia if we're being honest

Based sheperdsboyposter

Series 2 was mostly shite but Army of Ghosts was absolute kino

You can do the "x dies but not really" thing for s2/3 as well

Seasons 1-4 are comfy kino, but 5 is great apart from one or two episodes, 6 has a few decent ones and Day of the Doctor (plus misc. stuff like The 5-Ish Doctors and Adventures in Space and Time) are amazing in Season 7. Capaldi kills it in season 8 which only has a couple weak episodes and obviously we all know about Heaven Sent in S9. Season 10 has a lot of "I'm a lesbian" but most episodes were at least entertaining and it has a great two-parter finale. S11 is...just bland. I can't really say anything good or bad about it.

Go on then.

And RTD didn't do this?

No, he didn't.

Kel from Fear Her is getting a 12 part series in which he reports every major Doctor Who villain to the CAAAAAAAAAAANSUL

They never pretend anybody's dead though?

Missy's S10 arc is one of the best parts of the entire show

Thicc boi

this twat happened to it

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Me too desu

Yeah, excluding some of the Bill stuff, series 10 is pretty solid. I think it would have been better if the Heather stuff was gone and she died as a Cyber-Man though. That's the worst part of the finale.

>immediate deflection to another era
The standard Moffag response

It honestly amazes me how few people understand this

>Clara dies but gets resurrected to travel through time and space with her immortal lesbian waifu
>Bill dies but gets resurrected to travel through time and space with her immortal lesbian waifu
Defend this Moffcucks

There did. The whole point of River in that episode was to set up future appearances for her

I'd hardly call Maisie Williams a waifu. Quasimodo, perhaps.

>series 10 is pretty solid

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he would base the storytelling on a mystery that was never resolved, the season would end with a cliffhanger and the original mystery would become absorbed by a bigger mystery (crack in space and time - tardis blowing up - the silence - the question...)
moffats modus operandi is a carrot/mule method of teasing the audience that the interesting stuff is just around the corner

>acting like the Moffatt fanfic superhero whole-universe-revovles-around-him bastardisation of the doctor
FTFY

Everyone seems to love it, but it's never clicked with me. It just seems like corny, CW-tier schlock

The Vincent van Gogh episode is pure kino tho

Take off the nostalgia goggles.

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Series 10 has no good episodes, some astoundingly boring ones at that

For the most part it is. Obviously the Monk episodes were fumbled to hell and back, but the stuff with Missy and the Master, and most of the finale was pretty good. As I said, anything with Bill was naff.

"What was the point of an actor playing a character?"
>(You)

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>S8 2nd

I'll defend the Moffat era too user but even I think that's a bit much, rest of the list is good though

I'll say it a thousand times if need be:
Stop watching nuWho
Start watching Classic Who
It's so much better than the new stuff you'll never go back

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Girl in the Fireplace was shit, and the Library two-parter is shit when you realise how retarded it is that all of these hyper advanced operating systems are retardedly metaphorical and obtuse purely for the reasons of forcing another contrived twist.

The Girl in the Fireplace is shit for a different reason though, which is that the Doctor is a sociopath who wants to fuck a smelly French whore so badly he's willing to abandon his friends to starve to death in space.

obvious bait, here's your (you)

Blink, FofB, VatD or Heaven Sent

Yes I'm a basic bitch

What's the problem? Are you a fag or something?

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You seriously rate Listen over TGitF?

Moffat's male feminist pandering reached Everest levels at that point. There is only so much of a once-beloved franchise one could stomach

Why is it that if I were to describe a character as sassy, suggestive, sarcastic, gay etc. that'd fit all of Moffat's companions?

>(You)

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She was pointless though. She was simultaneously the most important person in the Doctor's life because we're just told she is. But she never actually does anything beyond being a normal companion.
She really had no chemsitry with Smith, mostly because she looked old enough to be his mother. It wasn't until Capaldi that they even felt like they had a relationship.

Made even worse by the fact that she was immediately followed up by Clara. Who saved the Doctor an infinite number of times in a single afternoon then became so important to him he had to wipe his own memory to stop himself destroying the universe for her because SHE'S JUST SO AMAZING.

What does the Doctor actually love about River?
I don't remember any point where their relationship grew. It was just her forcing herself onto him because she's from his future where he already loves her (again, just something we're told and have to accept). But at no point do we SEE his feelings grow for her on screen. It's constantly one-sided.

These guys sure had a satisfying resolution that was totally planned from the beginning and not improvised after the writers wrote themselves into a corner.

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*Once believed franchises destruction

Tom Baker made an appearance despite being old (as the oldest surviving doctor) so Smith could definitely show up in a 100th anniversary special.

Series 2: Rose dies! (but not really)
Series 3: The Master dies! (but not really)

Aside from those reminders Bill was a breath of fresh air after Clara. I actually liked Clara during Capaldi's run too.

he would set up like a grand mystery/plot thingy then fail to resolve it in a satisfying way. the buildup would be so good though so i forgive him a bit.

youtube.com/watch?v=0e71KWwE5Fk
Explain any of this scene. I dare you

Really thinking about it Aliens of London/World War Three
>Doctor and companion get themselves caught up in events through natural curiosity
>Events effects are obvious and far-reaching
>Real stakes
>Monster is unique and its reasoning makes sense
>Defeated through practical means and knowhow
>Lots of humour and lots of tension
>Doctor and team are smart and the Doctor takes command through action and charisma not because he's the most important person in the universe
Unpretentious, entertaining, as clever as it should be, not tryhard. As close to classic Who as nuWho gets. And the Slitheen kill Tony Blair.

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Go watch Shakespeare Code again.

Yeah but I'm not saying that was good was I.

S4>S8>S1>S2>S5>S10>S3>S6>S9>S7>S11

Where were the black people in Shakespeare Code?

I'm not mad that they're priests, that's actually a really good idea and an episode with confessional priests who you forget you've confessed to is a great idea for a solo episode but then why did they invade earth millions of years ago and direct humans to do certain things? Fuck this show.

Rose is never killed or thought to be killed though. Yeah they try and bait you with the opening, but it's not the same as the pandorica or teselecta shit.
The Master I'll give you though. At least they waited a series to bring him back instead of immediately doing it.

Wrong

>he liked Day of the Doctor

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Rose never "died" though

I liked Eccleston, the other new doctors were too s o y for me.

>Implying Love & Monsters wasn't kino

Love and Monsters is pure pleb filter. I don't think Americans are capable of understanding this show at it's top-level campiness desu

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And most importantly, why are they obsessed with the Doctor outside of the usual "most important man in the universe" thing?

I kind of get your point, but a lot of development between them is scattered across S6. If you've wiped that series from your memory though I don't blame you

What's not to understand?

Maybe 10+11 were, but Capaldi had that Scottish fire going on.

Peter Kay was 24 carat gold in Love and Monsters bu the cunt who played Elton (and all his lines) were cringiest pile of wank in the series up to that point

Where's the issue?

>this is the wrath of the doctor
instagram.com/p/Bz-v9fBB-Ii/

Because they were worried about what would happen when he arrived to the planet and said his name so they wanted to stop him from doing that by preventing him from ever getting there, which would've caused a paradox because they only knew he was there to prevent it by him being there in the first place. This show is so bad. They fought alongside him too in the end IIRC

Go and watch it again, listen to what 10 says to Martha in the first five minutes

But they remove her from the universe, claim they can never see each other again, and have the perfect goodbye. Then S4 just says "only joking!"

This is too perfect

Did he do the lesbian lizard woman? Because when she and her crew first appeared I was really confused and certain I’d missed them from SOMETHING.

>christmas special based entirely on the fact that the doctor can't regenerate anymore
>announce capaldi as the next doctor weeks before
>resolve the issue with a time lord deus ex space crack

I love this vid lol

the real 10/10 is amy pond

he was bad at drawing squiggly lines on paper

She worries about someone thinking she's a slave, the Doctor says don't worry about it and walk around like you own the place. It's a much better alternative than pretending it didn't happen.

What's wrong with it?

the writing

Yeah, for a couple of episodes, then she's back to the parallel universe and we never see her again.
Plus they had a 2 season gap. Most of the "x is dead but not really" shit in Moffat's era happens in the space of an episode.

I think Moffat forgot where he was going several times during S6

>A 2 season long fake out for the end of RTD's normal run is the same as a fake out between two episodes to keep you watching next week every week

Thanks for the (you) kind stranger!

He also says there were a lot more black people in this time than you'd think, which is the same thing as Capaldi says in Thin Ice

I agree Moffat's was much cringier though

Well for a start the whole thing is based on this scene (about 2:20)
youtube.com/watch?v=xMyVe9_MRKk

which was meant to set-up the idea of using the time-difference between the Doctor's as a tool. It was pretty clever in that scene using the screwdrivers.
But why would any of the Doctors BEFORE the War-Doctor be there?

There's also no reason for multiple Doctors to be there at all. The premise is that they used the Doctor's lifespan to complete the necessary calculations. But that means they presumably finished in 12's lifetime. So what is the point of everyone else being there with the unfinished calculations?
There's no reason for them to be there except fan-service.

Also these are slightly minor but why are the Time-Lords (a race of TIME TRAVELLERS) concerned with the centuries it would take to finish calculations, to the point that they reject the plan based on it? And why are they surprised the Doctor has 13 incarnations when that's exactly the regular amount for a Time Lord?

And that's not even getting into how it completely destroys the Doctor's sacrifice he made to end the Time War in the first place.
All along it was just so simple as moving the planet out of the way so the Daleks would kill themselves? The Daleks had the power to teleport planets back in S4, surprising the Time Lords never thought of that.
When the Doctor talked about killing the Time-Lords it was always because they'd become just as twisted and evil and the conflict needed to be totally buried with the loss of both. But thanks to Moffat we now know the Time-Lords only had to go because the planet was in the way of the Daleks shooting each other to death.

1. Retroactively taints the best thing about nuWho - the Doctor's torment over the Time War
2. Crowbar's in the worst excuse for a new character in the War Doctor - more Moffatt nonsense to fill in his own plotholes
3. More of that Fem-Unit crap
4. Almost nothing referencing the classic series bar a few cosmetic things
5. Clara is the first thing we see for 3 minutes
There's a few

>MARTHA: Oh, but hold on. Am I all right? I'm not going to get carted off as a slave, am I?
>DOCTOR: Why would they do that?
>MARTHA: Not exactly white, in case you haven't noticed.
>DOCTOR: I'm not even human. Just walk about like you own the place. Works for me. Besides, you'd be surprised. Elizabethan England, not so different from your time. Look over there. They've got recycling.
>(A man shovels horse manure into a bucket.)
>DOCTOR: Water cooler moment.
>(Two men talking at a water barrel.)
>PREACHER: And the world will be consumed by flame.
>DOCTOR: Global warming.
He doesn't say anything about her race.

>There's no reason for them to be there other than fan service
Well yeah it is the 50th anniversary

Also you can justify it using the TUAT appearance from the First Doctor

Steven Moffat is much better at small contained stories. Extend it into long arcs and Moffat puts too much of his narcissism and DESTINY!!!IMPOSSIBLE GIRL shit

But there aren't any black people where they shouldn't be except the time travelling one.
Easy to handwave away really, something about a Tardis perception filter makes her not stand out to most people or some shit. There's nothing history-breaking about it.

>retroactively taints
I swear I don't understand that.

You go rewatch the old stuff and nothing's tainted unless you're a literal autist that can't appreciate things as they are and has to obsess over overarching plots
It's the same stupidity that makes Moffat's run worse than RTD

The Doctor's torment over the Time War had been dragged out for way too long. It didn't even impact his personality in any meaningful way towards the end, it was just a way of saying "ZOMG look how sad he is". I think it's a good thing that they gave him a whole new arc in the 50th.

I'm not suggesting they should have dragged it on longer, I just think saying "oh, it was never actually destroyed and the reason he's sad wasn't actually valid" is a bad way to stop him whining about it.

He says "Besides, you'd be surprised. Elizabethan England, not so different from your time" and then it cuts to a black girl and a white girl walking and talking like normal. He doesn't say it out loud but it's made obvious

The reason he was sad was still valid, he still thought he did it through 9 and 10. The guilt still remained

But a non-retarded writer would have written a plot that allows the Doctor the get over his trauma.
A retarded writer (Moffat) makes a plot that undoes the whole thing with a big reset button making it pointless.

Imagine if the episode was exactly the same, but instead of saving Galiffrey, 10 and 11 simply go back to help the War doctor through it (like they were about to do before 11 changes his mind, I actually really liked that scene so it sucks that it was immediately made invalid) which allows 11 to move past the whole thing.

See

The Doctor thought himself an aloof demigod after wielding that much power to kill that many at once, and became cold-hearted unlike anything in the classic series. We were led to believe that the Doctor caused the deaths of all the Time Lords, but not only did he not, HE WAS THERE WHEN HE DIDN'T DO IT!

>ITT: Hbomberguy fans
We get it, you watched one video on Moffat and suddenly you're an expert on writing

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Except he doesn't remember. Neither the 9th or the 10th (which were the ones that most suffered over the Time War) remember what happened, not properly.

He's spent 7 seasons trying and failing to justify it to himself, he's not just going to succeed in one episode

And if given the chance to go back in his own timestream, he would never do it again

Plus without Gallifrey's return we would never have got Heaven Sent/Hell Bent, or new stories that will hopefully come if Chibnall stops pretending none of the show's lore never existed

>Neither the 9th or the 10th (which were the ones that most suffered over the Time War) remember what happened, not properly
When is this ever mentioned?

I watched these seasons live when they aired and the problems were just as apparent then fucktard. Stop projecting your inability to make your own conclusions

>cold-hearted unlike anything in Classic Who

Ten and Eleven were nowhere near as cold hearted as Seven

*ever

Fuck I'm retarded

Maybe you should pay more attention to the episodes if you're going to spend so much time whining about them.

Seven was devious but was really only a bastard in Curse of Fenric

Oh fuck off. 9 was actively repressing the memories of what had just happened so how had he forgotten for a start?

The only Moffkino that matters is Press Gang.

>Plus without Gallifrey's return we would never have got Heaven Sent/Hell Bent
Hell Bent was shit anyway.
And a time-loop story can be done in circumstances not involving Galiffrey. The Hybrid shitfest was the worst part of that episode anyway

see the replies

Season 8, Capaldi got the worst season of writing that season 8 should just be left to rot and forgotten. Should have ended after Season 9. All of the starting elements of the show back from season 1, ran their course and were completed. He even got Gallifrey back. Season 10+ should have been cancelled or a reboot or something different. I think they should have just stopped.

I thought Hell Bent was pretty good desu

It was kind of a soft reboot, and one of the best series of the show