Bad guy is evil...because he's evil

>he is the devil........but..... he's not evil.... AND....god is the bad guy.....
Dude, this is so nuanced

>implying christian god isn't a dick
maybe less so, but still a dick

YHWH is a dick. Jesus did one or two petty things but was otherwise chill.

Atheist here. I thought lucifer and Satan were the same thing?

>t. never read past book one

Uncultured fucks. U didnt even come close to hitting the mark.

No, only dumb uneducated protestant niggers think that.

Yep, this

Hell god isn't a sympathetic character at all. Jesus is. But not the big man. It all comes down to 'he's mysterious bro you wouldn't understand just trust him' with that guy. Fuckin dickhead desu

>t. had some commie university English teacher brainwash them into sympathizing with Satan

>IN MY INFINITE WISDOM I HAVE DECIDED THAT ALL HUMANS SHOULD BE STUPID ASSHOLES FOREVER AND STAY RIGHT HERE IN THIS GAY ASS GARDEN LIKE LITTLE KIDS
>ALSO THEY HAVE TO BE NAKED AND NOT REALIZE THAT THEY ARE NAKED SO I CAN WATCH

>You're fucking weird, dude.
>I'm going to go give them independent thought because you're too much of a twat
>Now they'll build rocket ships and create board games and electric guitars and write star trek and stuff
>Isn't this better?

>REEEEEE I'M SO SUPER PISSED OFF, EVERYONE GET OUT OF MY GARDEN YOU'RE FIRED SATAN GO BE KING OF HELL NOW

What was God's fucking problem?

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A common misconception. They were muddled together for Christianity's black and white view. Satan pretty much does God's dirty work. Testing humanity at it's worst. Lucifer was God's most beautiful seraph. But Lucifer chose to rebel rather than be subservient to Man.

It's not a misconception so much as that there are different versions of the story and characters.

T.Demiurge

reddit

>That's it Satan, I am the big cheese here and your behavior is unacceptable. I know more things than you and I'm gonna ask you to leave.
>REEEEEE NOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT IT WAS A PRANK BRO I JUST WANTED TO INTRODUCE DEATH AND DECAY INTO THEIR CAREFREE LOVES U MAD BRO IM GONNA WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THIS

Lucifer was actually the good guy who wanted to free humanity and rebelled against a tyrannical madman.

The serpent wasn't Satan. The serpent was simply a serpent, a symbol of spiraling time and change in the occult world. It was inevitability that mankind would evolve morality and lose their innocence. Learn2occult nigger

>god isn't real...because he isn't

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Not canon

Satan was the serpent as serpents in ancient texts represented knowledge. Satan wanted to free God's creations from the shackles of ignorance from once he was chained.

>manchild things designed to distract you from your suffering are better than spending eternity in loving harmony with God.

I don't blame you for falling for Satan's deception, but c'mon.

He's not evil though, he's the unsung hero of Christianity

With some versions of Satan he's a very sympathetic character, because he acts like we do.

>undertakes a war against god, even though he must know that it will fail, because it's what he believes in.
this is often considered virtuous by human morality, to ignore futility and stand by your convictions.

>rejects the idea of his own inferiority and a hierarchical society
Not wanting anyone else to be above you and to be subservient to no one is also a deeply human cause

>by his very existance and through his actions introduces the idea of relativity
human conceptions of life are all relative, nothing would make sense to us at all without it. the idea of good without bad (a utopia) is generally depicted in our stories as being deeply sinister. And we cherish negative emotions as giving colour to our lives and making us truely appreciate positive ones. None of that happens without Satan.

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Basneed

Is Satan = Lucifer canon in the books (bible)? I'm so confused and I've never read the bible and there's so many versions of this. My only knowledge of religion comes from tv shows like Lucifer, Supernatural etc..

>You're a loose cannon, Lucifer. I've got the Elohim up my ass and this department can't keep covering for you. I need your wings and your harp.
>And your other harp

Ironic shitposters are still shitposters with nothing to say. No, ‘veiling’ your opinions in irony does not make them intelligent.

Prior to milton’s rendition, the devil had never been humanized to the extent that he was to be sympathized with; essentially, Milton is making the point that the devil is essentially human, someone who has succumbed to pride. While this may not seem like a revolutionary thought now, it was then. I really doubt that either of you have read the work, or really any work outside of hentai.

>Is Satan = Lucifer canon in the books (bible)?
No

lol

to be fair you have to be pretty intelligent to read milton

i'm not saying he's a good guy. he's the devil and milton was a staunch christian. but to say there isn't nuance and depth to this character beyond "i'm so ebil" means you're an idiot who didn't understand the poem or you didn't read it.

>be Adam
>chill in the garden G-d made for me
>spend all my days eating delicious fruit, boning Eve and frolicking with cuddly animals
>some weirdo in a snake suit tells me this is actually bad and I need to open my mind and that I need to get educated
>that whore Eve agrees and the snake man tells her all about white male privilege and minority rights
>get evicted from the garden because I got pozzed
>some millenia later a neckbearded guy on the internet tells me that Satan is the good guy while calling me incel

T. Jaldaboath

>...and your OTHER wing.

all references to Satan or the Devil in the actual bible are just oblique references to an unspecified adversary who aims to disrupt God's plan, not necessarily a "big bad" like he is portrayed as in popular culture. That was sort of lifted from Zoroastrianism and everything else about Satan/Lucifer/The Devil was basically fanfiction written in the middle ages.

What is there to say, moron? Satan being le misunderstood guy is one of the most reactionary beliefs in the world and I enjoy making fedoras seethe by making fun of this.

No he wanted man to destroy himself

>he thinks you read hentai
Go back to Harvard, Einstein

god killed tens of millions and allowed for the creation of all evil in the world
you're right, it's not black and white, the Abrahamic God is literally the fount of all evil

sounds based

The serpent of Eden represents both knowledge and inevitability. He's a Prometheus figure, Prometheus's fire also representing knowledge. Mankind is a curious being, and it was only a matter of time before they learned more about the world around them and lost their innocence by becoming more than simple animals. Dogs don't murder, people do. Because people have the understanding of morality to turn killing into murder. It's a burden we took upon ourselves in exchange for our endless potential.

I bet you also think Hitler did nothing wrong

I want you to destroy yourself.

retard

Hitler was right, but he did plenty wrong
nuance, nuance, nuance
learn nuance

>giving people the freedom to be evil is the same thing as forcing them to be evil

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Who tempts jesus?

underrated and based

Was he wrong? Why did Moses hate him?

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>r-r-retarded shitstian.....you don't understand the tragedy of Satan and the cruelty of god as depicted in my fantasy book as opposed to your fantasy book....am I enlightened now?

an unnamed being of unspecified origin

>Hitler was right

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Crowley. Now we’re Yea Forums!

>Do good thing go to Heaven
Nice!
>Do Bad thing go to Hell
Woah wtf

That makes it sound a lot spookier

>le "God is Evil & Satan is cool" fedora tippers

gross. go to church

Was he left?

learn to commit suicide, retard
make your parents proud

>good guy is good...because he's good

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to a point, it literally is
especially so when you program them to be inclined to do such things
this world does not work on an equilibrium, the pain of the devoured creature will always be greater than the pleasure of the devourer
wholly unironicaly

>he doesn't believe in objective evil

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Was Hitler evil?

die for israel

I see the temptation of the serpent is strong in this thread

Actually it's more like
>doomed to go to hell no matter how good you are
>but God sacrificed himself to himself to pay the debt for us
>so do good things to honor the nigga for lookin out

you are a tedious emotional thing
you are not special

Israel is a complex nation state with many social issues, among them the orthodox Jews who do not support themselves but have become a welfare class.

do you have a source for this that isn't your ass?

I'm a Lutheran. It's required for us to hate Jews.

you are literally insane

That's kinda mean and maybe you should think before you post. We all have a responsibility to improve the quality of this site.

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Hell doesn't exist as a place but a state of being. "Hell" is the state of being farthest from the light of god.

Human brains are hardwired for religion.
The irreligious literally have malfunctioning brains.

>Satan being le misunderstood guy
So can you really only express yourself ironically or what? There’s nothing reactionary about Milton’s depiction; he was a theist who wanted to express that, as humans, we are closer to those that sin (the devil) than we are to God. In giving the devil human characteristics, he made this point clear in that the reader finds themselves empathizing with the devil. It’s genius, really.

So, no, your actually-retarded analysis of devil-as-misunderstood is wrong. The devil is perfectly understood; rather, Milton is saying that humans misunderstand themselves in their belief that they are greatly superior to him, ethically.

>this is what amerimutt protestant niggers who are too lazy to go to church actually tell themselves

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I'm like 99% sure all this anti-Israel stuff is propaganda at this point. In almost every instance, it turns out Israel isn't the aggressor or are justified otherwise.

>Milton wanted to flesh out Lucifer and make him a relatable character while making God a seemingly cruel but ultimately unknowable being
>Fedorator suck Milton's rotten dick because they can quote something else other than Neil deGrasse or Dawkins

>t.

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Hell is a lake of fire into which the condemned fall.

>faith
>2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
>rather than proof
the irreligious are literally fine in this aspect, and meanwhile you at the very least are literally reckless and delusional

Both killed millions because he wanted more space for the people he considered good.

What's the diff?

What is objectively evil?

If humans stopped existing, who would find anything evil?

Who decides what's evil without man?

We as men could change what is and isn't evil tomorrow if we collectively decided to. We make these changes as time changes, why do so many people now think abortion is okay when it was such an unspeakable thing even 2 decades ago?

cringe

what the fuck is this.

Hell isn't real you idiot. You've been fooled by temples of lies within the church.

That God is always right

to add to this, i'm fairly sure Pope Francis has gotten rid of Limbo and Hell
so even if you believe, they still don't exist

Metaphorical

So what you say is that the losers that read Paradise Lost find themselves connected to the loser that is Lucifer in the book? Makes sense, no wonder incels defend Milton with their lives

Yes, yes, moral objectivity is metaphysical knowledge so we can literally never know etc.

As Kant would say, we should assume that it’s real because the world is better for it. As for the actual existence of morality outside of human existence, we can never know. Personally, I think ‘morality’ is just something that develops biologically so that we work better as a society.

Original sin is not the disobedience of performing a forbidden act, it's trying to redefine good/evil in our own terms and defining being faithful in terms to make being faithful seem wrong is just that.

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No, it clearly isn't. *spits*

wrongo
In Matthew and Luke he is referred as the devil

>while making God a seemingly cruel but ultimately unknowable being

How is he not? Children getting cancer is seemingly cruel and the only explanation is that god works in mysterious ways and to trust him

How about giving more money to the church for dem forgiveness programs?

>gets btfo because he genuinely doesn’t understand the basic premise of the text
>calls everyone else losers
Epic, user. Stay illiterate, being willfully ignorant is cool.

satan is just a jewish term for enemy, so lucifer can be referred to as satan

They're the same God.

Are you by chance an American protestant?

to hell with your sin, a man is his own island and must make his way in the path he chooses
your god even as a fictitious entity is evil

Woah, that's really cool.
I'm sure you're super smart and some day people will see you for the genius you are, BUT for now...
KING, I got this dick.

>ur ignorand!
Oof, is that all miltoncucks can muster?
Sorry for making fun of your subverting fanfiction I'll be sure not to trigger you next time.

Good and Evil dont exist to God you fucking pleb. Only Gods will does.

No, I'm an atheist.

lol I bet you tell people "Jesus wouldn't want that!" when things don't go your way

Are you literally braindead, where did I say anything about free speech?

You are trapped in a wall of flesh.

validation is worthless beyond constructive criticism
learn your place, lose the Ego
your god doesn't exist, and his desires are faulty and usually contradictory at best
you people are literally insane

>more ironic shitposting
I hope you learned something at least. Goodbye user, until next time you say something retarded about something you’ve never read/played/watched/experienced

>As Kant would say, we should assume that it’s real because the world is better for it.
damn nigga. You ever read a book, or just the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy?

What a sad creature. I hope you grow up someday.

He's wrong, but you worship Astarte under the guise of Mary.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_(antiquity)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Heaven

Jeremiah 7:18:
The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger.

Goodbye. Put that Satan dick out of your mouth, your mom is crying in the bathroom about the state of her son.

I'm sorry you're afflicted with such a disease.

*tips mitre*

Many smart people are atheists, bromo.

I’ve read every critique, given it was a while ago. I’m fairly certain Kant said we should posit morality’s existence because it’s pointless to debate its actual existence, hence Practical Reason. Feel free to tell me where I’m wrong

It's not a disease to be an atheist, it's a point of view.

>religions are similar so they're the same

cringe
my god most definitely does exist. contradiction is a human invention... you realize that right?

God's desires are straightforward and simple. All he wants of us is to follow the Law and it is only people who are lost to sinful desires who wish to find fault in the Law.

that's even worse
How could you read almost 1000 pages of text and come away with a stanford encyclopedia level understanding?

*tips leftism*

Many wise people are theists, homo.

>learn your place, lose the Ego
KING, once you're on the throne I'll follow your every command, but I still GOT this dick that needs sucking

Remember to take your SSRIs, atheist-bros.
You need something to keep your neural pathways numb so you don't feel the pain of separation from your Lord.

Okay, yeah, if you could just correct me, if I am actually wrong, instead of throwing out vague insults. Or do you have anything to say? I’ll wait

>Many wise people are theists.
I've never refuted that nor does it follow from my atheistic stance that I would.

>Many wise people are theists, homo.
Name one, without resorting to historical exceptions like Issac Newton

At least the Greeks gods were dicks for the bantz, capital G is more serious

Me.

Jeremiah was condemning them, you retard.

St. Thomas Aquinas

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you god wants mindless slaves, your god is a petulant man-child who by your own damnable book killed tens of millions, you god allowed for all evil to be created out of spite
you do not get to hand wave it
fuck your book, fuck your evil god, and fuck you
>contradiction is a human invention
no, it's literally not
your god created the fruit Lucifer got Eve to eat

UUUUH NO HISTORICAL EXCEPTIONS?? I WIN?

>argument from authority
>argument from popularity
>argument from incredulity
Which side does this again? I forget...

the side I am against
my side is pure and reasonable

Your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ suffered and died for you.

If God is so good, how come he kills 99.99 % of the people on earth with a giant flood?

Here, have some reddit gold my good sir! What a gentleman and a scholar!

I never said abrahamic god is my god retard. I told you good and evil dont exist to god, which is correct. And contradiction is a human invention also.
>no its literally not
fucking substantiate this you retard

If God is good, how come I am still a virgin? I am the nicest motherfucker around and still girls won't notice me...therefore God is evil.

God created evil.

I'm not sure I follow what constitutes a "historical exception". I assumed you meant no famous scientists/philosophers who just happened to not be atheists by coincidence, so I gave you a respected philosopher/theologian whose faith was central to everything he ever wrote.

Evil is the absence of God. Do you blame candles for casting shadows?

they were being cringe and bluepilled

Let me not be vague. I think you're lying or a pathetic pseudointellectual.

I'm no Kant scholar, but it's more like: freedom of the will is equivalent to obedience to the moral law as expressed by the categorical imperative. It is impossible (this is the part that I still don't really get) to conceive of a finite dependent rational being without freedom of the will, so we must obey the moral law qua finite dependent rational being.

As usual with Kant (and this is the part I'm shocked you missed) it has to do with what is thinkable. The classic Kantian move is that the world of things is inaccessible and irrelevant besides, so we examine philosophical concepts in the world of ideas. For Kant, the starting point (groundwork excepted, since he kind of works backward in that one) is always "what can be thought?"

i remember reading somewhere that the latin word for apple in the bible can also be translated as sex. can any of you christcuck aficionados confirm?

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they were being queer with each other, animals, and angels.

God did not create good or evil. Its an empty distinction to god. And please substantiate your bullshit claim

UUUH NO IT DOESN'T COUNT? FACE IT,NO THEIST PHILOSOPHERS OR SCIENTISTS EXIST

Many atheists have shit luck with girls cause it's a huge turn off to listen to an asshat go on and on about being smart.

i am so glad the schizophrenic deity who'd curse humanity to literally infinite torture forever change their mind but actually didn't even but at least gave us room to remove or proposed transgressions we all inherently supposedly have from BIRTH
i will tip my fedora so hard it throws all in the sun because at least i can then stop more people from being born that might go to hell
i don't fucking care what your god is, you jumped in on the conversation and then act all high and mighty when you're the one who changes the topic without informing anyone
go fall on your sword, you indignant fuck
>fucking substantiate this you retard
the fruit, you fucking retard

God gives little girls cancer.

All sides.
Informal logical fallacies are gay nerd shit and bringing them up in friendly banter on a basket weaving forum marks you as a social reject among social rejects.

he created everything

Face it, atheists. For all your big talk about free will and evidence, you'd be in church TOMORROW if a religious girl showed interest in you.

Nah, we atheists are blessed and cursed with intellect (figuratively, that is. blessings and curses don't exist). God hates us and I hate him back (even though he doesn't exist)

God could stop old people from pissing themselves, but he doesn't. He chooses to watch as their diapers are filled and need changing.

I never changed the sword. My statement applies to the abrahamic god as well.
>the fruit
how does this make contradiction not a human invention...
we create abstracts

Nice argument.

this is the guy Jesus was talking about when he told all those parables about salt.

we're made in the image of god. Any abstracts we understand he understands as well. He would've known from the very start and he did it anyways.

if god exist y pepul dye :(

No, their defective parents do. Sorry if this hurts you, but it's the truth.

Well, that's true for all stances. I'd fuck a jewish girl today if she showed interest.

Nice try Satan

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>the fruit
>how does this make contradiction not a human invention...
you literally do not know what you're talking about, holy shit

Tomorrow's Friday

Reddit was a mistake, a place filled with fartsniffers who think they know shit

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kék

>NOOOOO YOU CANT USE KNOWLEDGE TO IMPROVE THE HUMAN CONDITION YOU HAVE TO DO THINGS MY WAY!!!

what an autistic godchild

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>LOL IF GOD IS GOOD AND EXISTS WHY DO PEOPLE SUFFER? CHACK AND MATE!
To teach people responsibility and that God is not some wish dispenser to make the bad-bad go away.
>O-O-OH YEAH? THEN WHY DO DISEASES AND OLD AGE EXIST?
Because they do. Why is water wet and not dry? Why is the sun bright and not dark?

You have no idea what cancer is, don't you? It has almost nothing to do with DNA, but literally a bad luck.

>b-but all my confirmation bias books say that he is
that's all you have
you're not funny, you're not clever

incredulity is not an argument.
so god invented the toaster?

See, that's the gay nerd shit I'm talking about.
Acting like a brain king who gets to make the rules about what is or isn't an argument just makes you sound like a sperg.
You aren't Socrates. You're an amateur. Act like it.

So Lucifer is Prometheus?

>Because they do. Why is water wet and not dry? Why is the sun bright and not dark?
Complete non-answer, retard

>things were literally perfect before
>"NOOOO YOU CAN'T BE HAPPY AND IN HARMONY WITH THE WORLD YOU THINK YOU ARE HAPPY BUT YOU'RE NOT TRUST ME I KNOW'

>Eternal bliss is a bad thing
What was user’s problem?

It was simple and to the point. The simplest things are always the hardest.

Good thing every scientist ever has been a fedora tipping, Dawkins reading atheist.

>just stay ignorant bro

So? What does this have to do with God?

I don't cite books as a source for my faith, I've spoken to god directly.

Yes. That's the idea behind causality. If you have infinite comprehension, you understand everything about the material world at every moment in time as easily as an adult nowadays understands addition. Every aspect of existence was planned.

Christian L OMEGALUL R E

>Why is water wet
water by definition is not wet, Christ-cuck, but given that you're so stuck in your book of religion and not one of science i guess you wouldn't know that, huh
you are literally insane

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>
We are talking around eachother, and we haven’t disagreed in any place. My initial statement “Kant says we may as well assume morality exists” is in no way contradictory with what you’ve posted. In fact, as you’ve already said, the freedom of will is equivalent to our obedience to moral law. Sure. But Kant ALSO says, in his antinomies, that we cannot know if the will is predetermined or not. In other words, Kant concedes that we can never know if the will is actually free. Following this, he suggests we accept that the will is free as an axiom, for, if we assume human beings as devoid of free will, we cannot be held responsible for anything.

So, in accordance with what you’ve said, free will = obedience to the moral law. However, free will is posited, something we accept without proof. Following, moral law, and our adherence to it, is dependent upon an axiom and, as such, is something we accept because “the world would be better for it.” I don’t see where we’ve disagreed.

No. Prometheus was punished by a bird eating his liver while Satan was thrown away from heaven to become lord of imps in Hell.

Yeah dude, I need to know how minorities suffer under the yoke of the white man and how I need to be more accepting of pozzers spreading aids because it's their culture.
Thanks Satan now I'm not ignorant anymore!

they literally knew all there was to know
what they were tempted with was the ability to define good and evil on their own terms.

I wish I had a life so easy I could care about children's movies remakes and old jewish fairy tales.
There are thousands of gods and cool stories about them, and yours is one of the lamest, with a story that has more holes in it than fucking Game of Thrones. Fucking christfags.

I don't concern myself with what others think.

>space exploration
>manchild things

Yeah I need to grow up and go donate 10% of my income to some asshole who makes me sit there and listen to him make shit up every sunday morning for 4 hours

christfags are the absolute biggest manchildren there are

save your god

total nonsense. It's described in Genesis that they didn't understand the concept of nakedness prior to eating the fruit.

Yikes, man. Where are your arguments?
Also that quote is supposed to be anti-theistic or something?

Everything is in God's will. God made the world where cute innocent girls and boys can get horrible desease without any reason si they will die suffering and lifes, hopes, dreams and souls of their parents will be ruined forever.

>science is only space exploration and medicine
Science is also optimizing ways to kill people more efficiently and how to dilate the vagina of your nine-year old son, but atheists are always gracefully ignoring these facts lol

Itt : autistic sperging

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>bad guy is evil...because he's evil.

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>ad hominem
surprise level: 0

>Also that quote is supposed to be anti-theistic or something?
the point is you say that and even religious people will think your crazy
>Where are your arguments?
let me have my faith! oh how my faith is enough and even if he makes an argument i won't listen because i have FAITH
kys

For one, in the groundwork, it seems like Kant wants to go further than treating free will as an axiom. He wants to deduce it from the kind of thing we are. But I haven't read nearly as much Kant as you have.

Just couldn't believe Kant would say something as simplistic as "we might as well be moral."

he is evil due to pride and overambition

God tests their parents lol. Don't worry, the kids are lucky, they are going to be in heaven soon.

If God is so good, how come he gives people micropeens?

OT God is actually pretty interesting as a character.

And cancer don't give a fuck if they are christians or now, do they pray or not, are their parents good people or sinners. They will pray to God, ask for salvation, but the answer is always "lol no".
Not sure if we have to thank Satan for giving us medicine.
On the other hand, life of Adam and Eve in heaven before Serpent must have been nice time.

fucking kek

How many of these thousands have you actually read about?
Be honest.

Most people on the left are religious.

yikes, someone's mad af

It's not that they didn't know what nakedness was, it's that they decided for themselves that being naked was shameful.

God is real TO ME because I know it IN MY HEART.

have sex

he's punishing your mum for being a whore

what's the difference?

Why does almighty being create things he needs to test? Why the test is so cruel? What if they fail? Are people even have brain if they belive this bullshit?

Those kids who die of horrible diseases must have done some shit to really piss God off.

>living like a dumb animal and never doing or discovering anything of worth is perfection.

Yeah nah i'll take the apple thanks

have sex incel

Was it Eve's fault?

>Just couldn't believe Kant would say something as simplistic as "we might as well be moral."
He absolutely doesn’t, it was a complete paraphrase, one deduced transitively from the logic that we assume free will because the world would be better for it. As such, we assume morality for these same reasons by extension. I would find the passage for you but I’m away from home and I can’t find it online, I’m fairly certain it’s in the Antinomies. Regardless, I read all these works about five years ago and, admittedly, some of it has fallen by the wayside, but I don’t think that makes me a pathetic pseud.

Ok. Did you read "Karamazov bros"? There was an atheist guy in the book who believed in God, but had no will to take all the horrors of the world the God created.
Don't you think about it? You have a literal Cthulhu in your heart.

I'm not surprised that atheists are depressed incels.

Probably. Those small titsucking motherfuckers. What horrible sins live in their brains? You never know.

This argument might sound heartless, but try to take it seriously.
A human life is way better than the "life" of a rock. Even a suffering human life is better. If you wonder why god made humans who suffer, even inordinately, you may as well wonder why god made rocks when each rock could have just been a human instead.

You can push this argument further. If God is perfect, anything he makes will be less than him, so why should he make anything at all? And yet he clearly has made things. The best that can be said is that all of our experience with the good tells us that it is effusive -- it reproduces itself, even if incompletely.

Christian theology considers the world to be in a "broken" state due to our sinful natures and that Jesus will come back to fix it. The "brokenness" of the world is the explanation for why suffering exists, not that God is individually testing everyone all the time.

>God tests you by giving you hemophilia.

Don't kids today study the world's mythologies at school? We did for two years, along with national fairy tales and some drops of christian/muslim bullshit.

>argumentum ad "I decide what is and isn't an argument"

Eve had bad motivations, but in the end it was a good thing that it was shared with Adam.
>"Oh. My. God. You just HAVE to try this"
>"Wow, I truly understand the nature of understanding. I must create the Kingdom of Man and usurp this evil creator."

So God isn't all powerful and can't stop all suffering at will?

I would say it's the only worthwhile thing women has ever done

God's not an evil dick, he's just autistic.
\.

Well, I'm not depressed and I'm not incel. I'm a proud commie humanist.

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He can and will, but it's not time yet.

I take it you're trolling but fuck it. No, "You're wrong about God because I don't like your shoes." is not an argument.

>humanist
CRINGE

P (feed) and Q (sneed)
If one feeds therefore he sneed. Evidence is that if one P then he Q. Simple logic

>proud commie

you deserve to be sent to a camp

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Does that line ever work

Cool, can't wait for kids to stop suffering. Whenever you're ready, God.

Boogie

Film is the medium of the visual memento amassing the whole of the Truth, inspired by the ultra-subjectivity of the lungs. You guys will never understand the mirth-irony synthesis, even the mystics won’t get it. Mysticism and occultism needs a synthesis, it’s deflated, it’s not breathing. Mysticism and occultism is as much an artistic narrative construction of the brain as science or pragmatism. Synthesized together you get mirth-irony. And the capture of this truth won’t be found in your dusty rotten tomes, but only in the living and breathing wetness of film.

Why doesn't God stop pedophilia? Is it a test of those kids' mental resilience?

because evil exists

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resentful atheism is worse than delusional faith.

But only one will get you laid.

Sorry
I suppose I got a little bit of the fear of death put into me by your original post. The thought of spending a lot of time reading something, only to condense the biggest ideas down stoner musings a few years later caused me to fly off the handle a bit. You could say I was projecting my own insecurities onto you.

Guess that's life though. Even the thoughts we treasure up have a shelf life.

is mirth-irony just the awareness of post-modern man or something else? I don't think I understand your post but it's intriguing.

>But Lucifer chose to rebel rather than be subservient to Man.
Based. Humanity is shit

Will my pet join me in heaven?

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>two years
we got a scholar over here

it's subjectively more cringe which holds greater weight than any material desire.

The world will remain in it's current broken state until the time of judgment. Until then, all we can do is try to keep Jesus' seat warm.

>A human life is way better than the life of a rock
Are you stupid? Rocks are dead and pretty ok with it as all dead things are. And that's a real bless - if you are suffering, once you will die and will become ash and proud of that.
But wait, God has prepared an eternal punishment in Hell for you if you wasn't lucky enough to please his will!
Probably I would pick being a stone to a possibility of eternal suffering.
> If you wonder why god made humans who suffer, even inordinately, you may as well wonder why god made rocks when each rock could have just been a human instead
What? Do you even hear yourself? Where in a Bible God thinks about creating world of "just humanz, no rocks, shit and stuff". By the way, that would be angels? Not sure.
>You can push this argument further. If God is perfect, anything he makes will be less than him, so why should he make anything at all? And yet he clearly has made things. The best that can be said is that all of our experience with the good tells us that it is effusive -- it reproduces itself, even if incompletely.
No logic here. Just random statements

No worries, it gave me an excuse to brush up on my Kant. You don’t use it, you lose it. Alas.

>We christcucks have superior morality and you atheistfags can't have a set moral rules and reason to follow them
>God loves everyone even sinners
>Everyone sins but if you believe in and follow Jesus you will go to heaven
>Fags/atheists are sinner and will burn in hell even though they sin but so do I and every sin is the same
>Everyone struggles on their road, therefore everyone sins
Christians are less moral BECAUSE of their faith and that is a FACT

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>NO, NO, NO, NO! ALL THE BAD STUFF IS ALLEGORY AND POETIC LANGUAGE HA HA HA

>But wait, God has prepared an eternal punishment in Hell for you if you wasn't lucky enough to please his will!

Nobody is good enough to please Him. That's why he gave us Jesus.

On course, it was never meant to be taken literally...

I'm trying to help YOU, not win an argument.
When normal people "argue" they don't quote informal fallacies at each other. If one person makes an ad hom argument, the other person doesn't scream "AD HOM" like they just saw a shiny pokemon. He gives a little razzmatazz back and tries to get the discussion back on track.

>now you just need to believe in him and you will be fine
>blind faith is the peak morality you can act however you want as jesus died for your sins

he was an incomprehensible murder machine, at least greek gods had relatable motives like turning into a giant bull and impregnating women

>Atheists trolling each other by pretending to be Christians
another great day on 4channel

Glorious

Thanks, I've noticed.

lost

The motivation to do good is not to get into "heaven" or stay out of "hell". It's to "pay forward" the love Jesus showed us by dying for us. Christianity is less about where you go when you die and more about what you do before you die.

EVERY CHRISTIAN BELIEVES IN GOD BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED INTO THAT CONCEPT SINCE YOUNG AGE
that is a fact and only reason braindead religion still is so prevalent in this day and age

Who tempts you and me every day?

Does God have to be a man?

>Nobody is good enough to please Him. That's why he gave us Jesus.
Well, the idea of Jesus, being sort of comparably nice character, became the only reason for success of abrahamic religion in Europe. Suffering people in roman empire and its colonies realy needed idea of a guy who will fix everything after you death if you will be good person. What an awesome idea to make such religion your oficial state religion! Fuck this bloody Zeus, Tor and shit, we have a fairytale to fix our crimerate!

>born-agains don't exist

In some denominations, you don't count as a Christian unless you have a rebirth and baptism as an adult.

How many kids has the catholic church_______?

In Genesis, it's stated that Adam, unlike the rest of the universe, was made in the image of God, and that Eve was made from his rib as a companion. Interpret that however you want.

literally 100% of atheists claim to be such because they don't like to wake up early on the weekend and they feel guilt about being a chronic masturbator/consumer of pornography. Once you get over those two hurdles, living a Christian life is simple and rewarding.

Not exactly. Life is hard and full of terrors, once you can find out that idea of the better life after death is the only way to stay calm and carry on.

but what sets your moral compass hwen you are a christian? You are suppossed to love each other but hate muslims and fags. Love sinners but tell them they will burn in hell yet you yourself can sin and do bad shit because you will be forgiven. Your highest virtue is your belief. You can drink, swear even kill a man yet because your faith is there and youre ""trying"" to be on the irght path and believe in JEsus you are form there better than an atheist.
Im just saying there is nothin moral about htat and christian moral compass is cherrypicked from bible as you can't really accept everything.
Atheists arent less moral because they can't excuse themselves that they are good ismply because they have faith

This sight is worse than reddit

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saved through the redemptive and transformative power of baptism?

>Agnostics trolling each other by pretending to be Atheists

nothing more based in this world

Great arguments on both sides
for agnosticism

They do I'm saying the concept of god is brainwashed into your brain that is why no sane person who hasn't gone through some trauma simply can't grasp the concept of god and believe in it as it just doesn't work.

Religion is just a play thing. Secularized metaphysics. Contemporary Buddhism is just as retarded for that matter. Everyone who has come after is an intellectual inferior and has muddied the waters. Like buddhist denial of the soul, nowhere in the oldest texts is there a denial of the soul. There is objective negation (i.e. my brain is not my
Soul, my feelins are not my soul, etc) but NOT denial! Very sad state of affairs!

You're so close.
Everyone believes in god because he has been brainwashed into that concept since young age.
The difference between atheists and Christians is that Christians know the name of their God.

I hope religion never dies. It's just too much fun!

It’s the acknowledgement that God is real, almost at everytime and every hour, like a clock ticking, it never stops constantly waiting, it’s right there in your chest. But it’s not delusion or fanatical mysticism, it’s the acknowledgement of a truth restrained and concentrated by the facts of our physical world, to a certain degree. It doesn’t come from self aggrandizing or combing through information trying to construct or make something up. It comes from the passive experience of watching a film mixed with the active explosions of sort of certain spontaneous organic development that feels almost ultra-real and ultra-subjectively true. A classic example I always go to is the miniature house scene in The Sacrifice. I’m not certain of everything yet myself, I am only on the cusp of completing the synthesis

2 deed 4 me

shades of grey morals is the biggest lie there is. Made up so that wankers wouldn't feel bad about being bad

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make a new thread

Our neurochemistry is designed for religion. In the absence of an established religion, it will naturally develop out of nothing.

the power of math, people!

but christians believe someone "watches" them and judges them. they do/don't do stuff out of fear of afterlife punishmen or punishment in general that is supernatural. Atheists base their actions on how it will affect their life. Beign an asshole will make your life miserable no need to believe in supernatural force that will step in and give your wife cancer as a means of not doing bad stuff

this again

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The original passage people always claim is talking about Lucifer's fall is actually talking about a Babylonian king who became wicked, not an angel who went to become the devil. People just always ignore the context.

Christians don't believe in instant karmic justice.

>excessive drinking bad
>premarial sex bad
b-but i believe injesus and he will forgive me
>fags being fags
bad and beyond salvation will burn in hell

How is that black and white for christfags?

God tests you by making you an incel.

When I grew up I became an agnostic atheist instead of a christian. The way you larping newfags pretend that everyone automatically becomes a christfag when they grow up is honestly just weird, because more often than not the exact opposite happens. Is this an American thing? It has to be.

My country is like 90% atheist and if you ask people they will tell you "yeah i belive there can be something that influences the world" and "dunno if there is life after death whatever"
No religion establishes naturally, if you call just believing there might some force influencing the world the same thing as going to church, thanking god before eating, being hard set on peoples choices only because you read it in a book. Being afraid of redemption and believing in prayer someone will hear you and grant you wahtever you wish because you go to church and try to be good than you are retarded. It isn't the same. 90% of waht religion is is stupid, useless and retareded and will not naturally occur in atheist people

I like Zizek's bit on this.

God didn't die in the holocaust. The only way to understand the holocaust is with God -- nothing else is adequate. The alternative to God is refusing to ask the question "why did the holocaust happen," i.e. autism.

it is brainlet opinion but it is what every christian I ever met thinks so. My mom send me on christian camp and the people are genuiely good people yete whenever I asked about shit like this my op was what they told me.
IF they dont believe in instant karmic justice and their only reason not to sin is afterlife than that is even worse and less moral to be honestt

>to be honestt
lay off the coffee

>he doesn't know "atheism" is just the 21st century word for idolatry

Atheism is the worship of human work (society, culture, science) over God.

if I want to into based buddhism when should I stop reading?

nice troll

this sounds like what Batailles would describe as a limit-experience. If you haven't heard of it, maybe that could lead you futher.

the motivation to live according to God's will and following the Law is the fact that, despite us not deserving it, Jesus sacrificed his life for us and it's what he wanted.

Your singing heart, the ancient sounds of your footsteps, its older than the written word. God is real and Jesus Christ is his son and cinema proves it through its manifesting of worlds that subscribe to the laws of mirth-irony, if God wasn’t real this wouldn’t be possible.

Is there a bigger kino than the bible?