What killed the action genre?

This. Bugmen literally can't comprehend action movies because their testosterone is nonexistent.

>Fast cut
this

the fact that fast cuts and shaky cam can make action "heroes" of pudgy guys like Matt Damon and old men like Liam Neeson

Also action isn't really dead, I mean capeshit is just old action movies with guys in spandex, not to mention the john wick and fast and furious movies

Jews.

CGI

So the Rock is low test? He's the biggest star in the world right now according to Box Office and China. You guys complain about China liking mindless action flicks starring the Rock but then complain about them not being manly like you to appreciate mindless action flicks.

Make up your minds.

women

feminism

I blame comedies/parodies, all became a bit of a joke.

The Rock is barely an action movie star. He has potential, but he doesn't fully commit. He could be the next Arnold or Bruce Willis, but he keeps taking roles that are like quirky pseudo-action movies with comic relief. And the next Jumanji is only going to typecast him even more.

This scene in The Other Guys

It was a farewell to action movies because cape shit was taking over and the writing was on the wall

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Capeshit and excess in general. Today, all action is overblown. It's either superheroes surviving getting thrown across the room without a single scratch or overchoreographed bullshit like John Wick.

Based Tom Cruise saying fuck the insurance

I also blame parodies

How can a movie have such an awesome first 10 minutes and then the rest of it be so unbelievably forgettable?

R rating since studios became concerned about what they could do to keep their movies appealing to as many demographics as possible.

Pixar movies are a good example of this, where they change the text on books in the movies into the local languages or do things like in Inside Out where they changed the "punishment food" from broccoli (for Americans) to bell peppers for the Japanese (if I remember right). Tailoring movies to be appropriate for every audience in the world has really fucked up the ability to do action movies where you kill terrorists and shit.

Parodies is one reason for sure, but I think the genre just got oversaturated and people lost interest. Then it was replaced with capeshit and whatever.

Nothing? John Wick 3 got 300M+, Hobbs and Show will get 600M-1B.

I wonder why they never made a Call Of Duty film. Sure it’s vidyashit but the Modern Warfare storyline is worth to be a fucking movie.

This movie is better than all the capeshit made by Disney in the last ten years.

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Single moms and their limpwrited offspring.

This. One of my favourites Renny Harlin's films.

this is the most correct answer ITT
guys used to be over the top and silly but still need to tank some damage and do somewhat conceivable shit
now it's just retarded turbo competence, inverse ninja law and punching walls into dust

THE ICE AGE

Maybe check korean cinema? There's plenty of it

>muh asians
We don't want to see flat-faces.

I wonder how well would Spec Ops the Line be received. The settings and premise was cool as fuck and the Hollywood commies can pat themselves on the back for the subversion of the genre.

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then eat shit and watch good action movie every 10 years

based Renny Harlin liker

I'll do it. Thanks for the advice.

damn we just had Fallout, that means next one is far away

>He's the biggest star in the world right
>Downey takes 60 000 000 dollars for a cameo of a character that he clearly hates

Toxic masculinity.

starring in capeshit is kind of cheating

its not like downey has other things that are successful unlike the rock who has multiple films which are successful worldwide (though fast and the furious is cheating too)

retards inviting their girlfriends to the movies to force them to watch an action film. they should have just given in to the romantic comedy bullshit and went back for the action film alone with the boys.

Does Downey hate Tony Stark?

It was supposed to start production around now, with Stefano Sollima of Sicario 2 and Gomorra directing it

Damon looked pretty muscular or at least reasonably fit in the Bourne movies from what I remember.

He killed him, so imagine...

According to Sylvester Stallone, Batman ‘89 did.
>"It was the first 'Batman' movie," Stallone told the Times, in reference to the 1989 movie adaptation starring Michael Keaton as the Caped Crusader. He went on to say, "The action movies changed radically when it became possible to Velcro your muscles on," a clear dig at how the trim Keaton was encased in a sculpted Batsuit for the film. Stallone joked, "I wish I had thought of Velcro muscles myself... "I didn't have to go to the gym for all those years."
>Stallone adds that the director Tim Burton's stylish take on the superhero story changed what audiences expected from an action flick: "It was the beginning of a new era. The visual took over. The special effects became more important than the single person. That was the beginning of the end."

The rock is a metrosexual safe non violent product. Surely you jest.

He looks the part but he's a neutered version of the real thing churning out meteocrity and selling protein shakes and we all know it.
Does he even shoot people in his films?

>What killed the action genre?

cuts so fast that nothing looks impressive. if two people fight, I do not care about their fucking faces, or hands, or feet, or how fast you can switch between 12 cameras. you need 1 camera and not a single cut for a good scene. every time you cut, you make it worse.

LOL

Downey will be back, as soon as he understand that there is no place in Hollywood for him right now outside of capeshit. Same with Chris the faggot Evans.

The effort he put into the character in the last four movies is nonexistent, it killed any chance he ever had to be taken seriously in other roles and the lines he throws around are cringe as hell.

The action genre never died, it just jumped from theaters to streaming and DVD. Just watched “The Night Comes For Us” the other day and it was based as fuck.

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Superhero movies

>no place in Hollywood
Irrelevant. RDJ has money enough to not have to work again.

9/11

Gooks don't make action movies. They're shitty thrillers with one fight scene.

>Fast cut and shaky cam (except bourne identity, which was done right)

fpbp

Recently saw this a few years back, and it was a lot better than I remembered it as a kid.

More movies need to be like die hard where he actually gets shot but it’s a flesh wound or he has to step on glass to get through an area.

It destroys your ability to believe a scene when someone gets shot at with a machine gun and literally never even gets hurt

This isn't how the ego of these people works. He probably has enough money to live like a rich man for the rest of his life, but fame is ephemeral (more than money) and he needs to feed constantly to continue existing.

youtu.be/gCKhktcbfQM
True patrician kino. It's so action packed

Ok, but you wrong tho. This movie is 80% dudes getting kicked in the face and 20% dudes getting knife-murdered.

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That's a common feeling. I'm old enough to remember how movie critics and even normies negatively criticized these kind of action films. But if you watch many of them today, are pretty good and funny, more than the capeshit which unironically is being clapping for these same movie critics and normies.

Yeah dude no one will ever take him seriously now after playing Iron Man. Not like back in the day when he was embarrassingly strung out on drugs for a decade—that's when he was a serious actor!
Is that what you curdled sòy queers actually believe?

Capeshit

because they arent the same critics, before the films were criticized by boomers, now by millennials.

What are the new projects?

Not gonna claim it was a masterpiece but this whole closed-off fishing town, 1 man vs group of mercenaries, in the middle of a huge storm, building up to a duel on top a big tower, between two old comrades, personal revenge for murdering a mentor, set piece was really neatly, iconically conceived and elegantly done, in an otherwise very dull and generic movie and in a period where old-fashioned, human-focused action movies simply don't exist anymore except for very rare exceptions like Jack Reacher. I wish the whole movie could have been as efficient as that particular section. Fuqua is a very mediocre director but he's also not a complete hack who can let quieter moments unfold with still shots and that alone is refreshing by modern standards.

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get high and fuck kids

Especially when the competition that summer was... whatever this is.

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Fucking A. Great game and story.

This cannot be real. I refuse to believe that it's real.

I didn't remember this movie that bad.

millennials were a mistake

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>How many Americans have you killed today?
>Do you even remember why you came here?
>Remember, you are still a good person.

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THE SLY CAN’T LIE
CAPESHIT RUINS EVERYTHING

>oy vey, strong white men who kick ass and fuck stacey? Not so fast, goy.
Jews.
Also, jackie chan does not belong in this picture

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My guess is political correctness. Back when nobody really gave a shit about race, a movie where Schwarzenegger slaughtered 3000 spics, rescued his daughter, then took a mulatto bitch he'd kidnapped (and who fell in love with him) home to fuck in the ass? That was just considered a good flick. Now blue haired transvestites would suicide bomb theaters over Commando.

masterful suspense

Whoever edited this needs to have their union membership permanently revoked. Jesus Christ.

Fuck off dude. That movie is completely underrated but underrated as a great COMEDY. Not an action movie

Based

Hobbs and Show is literal capeshit

It’s a comedy until the last thirty minutes where it becomes a preachy “DA BANKS R EBIL U GUISE” mess of shit everybody already knows. Then to cap it all off, there’s a bunch of infographics over the closing credits.

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Fuck me I thought this was just some cliff guff like the one hes trapped in the tunnel.

Whats up with the guy keking when the bird falls

holy shit the editing in this movie was the worst one ever
the opening car chase in the cinema looked like a fucking smear, couldn't fucking tell what the fuck is going on AT ALL
then the opening credits rolled, than rooftop chase and AGAIN you can't see shit and tell what's what
I was hungry for more Caskino Royale and got this turd instead

>>>/Pol/

Equalizer 2 is underappreciated kino.

Only that last 15 minutes or so. Everything before is really bland and tedious.

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Patriarchy... you're fired

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the finale was passable but everything leading up to it was hot garbage. Any time an actor uses a movie to preach to the audience about the good ol days I want to kill myself. Every scene with denzel talking to the black kid was intolerably bad.

/pol/ has nothing to do with it in this case. Adam McKay was literally cramming his personal politics into a boneheaded Will Ferrell comedy.

Complete garbage. Here's garbage of a different kind. No cuts, yet still look as retarded as fast cut shaky cam bullshit. Completely missing the point of why long takes are cool.

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that actor is a fucking blowjob

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>/pol/ loves bankers now
You're an asshole who doesn't even know what you're hating.

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>Bourne Identity
>Fast cut
>Shaky cam
Pick neither.

Look how brilliantly directed this is. Looks so simple and obvious, yet nobody else does it like this. It's completely logical/mathematical directing but at the same time has this playful/rhythmic vibe to it. Masterful.

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I wonder if T1 was the first movie ever to show part of a scene through a security camera. It was Biehn's idea, apparently.

wait i dont get this? just different povs? how is this any revolutionary as you say?

wasnt this directed by a marvel/mcu director? russo bros? def the explanation why MCU action scenes look so garbage

Stallone is an insightful person. Some people might think he is stupid because of the way he talks but he is not.

thank you, thank you. this specific scene is pure orgasm

jan de bont is one hell of a talented cinematographer to capture the flow and the combination of him with John McTiernan resulted in this masterpiece.

another perfect scene is how the germans exit the elevator combined with the music, it's like they're dancing. same with Willis whenever he moves, he dances

Don't tell me those were females.....

Just got fucking replaced. Action had its time. Just like Westerns before it and Super hero movies now.

Is it just me or is this making anyone else dizzy? Holy shit.

Onions

a few lesser discussed action films from post matrix:

youtube.com/watch?v=Ivb2hziBrIk
Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
>A turkish action film with a few american b-stars (Billy Zane, Gary Busey). Plot-heavy, anti-american, pretty interesting even though the quality isn't on hollywood-level.

youtube.com/watch?v=Wxk2PPOdw8o
Time and Tide
>A fast paced hong kong-action starring two boyband musicians, very choreographic and has a few cool scenes

youtube.com/watch?v=SycBJwX4ulA
La Sirene Rouge
>Same director who made Taken, it only has one good scene but it's a pretty comfy 10-minute shootout

youtube.com/watch?v=wPlAHYIO7nQ
The Way of the Gun
>it's known but not as much discussed here on Yea Forums

it is the flow, it's a fluid cinematography where the movements on screen follows the same wave even through the cuts, compare it to the other webms in this thread and you'll see that everything in this webm is carefully thought out to have an organic natural flow, going with the wind so to say.

What movie

This movie is actually good outside this scene

>Remember, you are still a good person.
Yeah, that was awesome quote at that time in the story, where it was becoming obvious that something went horribly wrong.
Loved the abandoned Lamborghinis and shacks made out of expensive silks and golden chains, and the teddy bear with diamond eyes.

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women

Too much reliance on ugly CG effects.

>jackie chan does not belong in this picture
You win the prize for Yea Forums's Biggest Pleb of the day. The competition is hard, but you certainly earned it.

Nothing, it's still great but you just live in the past.

Rock is pg13 action

When something works, the market will hammer it into the ground. We only look back on these films fondly because we have so much variety today, at the time it was extremely over saturated with guys who were "the best" nowadays emotional relatability > cool shit

One of the reasons as well is probably there was a superhero fatigue going on. In retrospect, you can appreciate these movies more, because a lot of them tried to differentiate a little by doing new things here and there. But from the outside, it was just the same movie over and over again. Not unlike capeshit, or ACDC. You have to be into it, to appreciate the differences.

Dwayne's films have no gravitas. He just wants to make mild mannered litty flicks.

>i wonder what would happen if they made a film out of Heart of Darkness, but set with contemporary US military engaged in guerrilla warfare

What an incredible game, people can nitpick it but the way every little detail is just there to make you uncomfortable is an experience ive never had in a game. Even horror games because they TEND not to actually be psycological.

>Fast cut and shaky cam (except John Wick, which was done right)
FTFY

Seriously?

Walking tall was pretty good, but then he went straight to 'The tooth Fairy. Same with Vin Diesel who did that movie where he had to play a babysitter. They made the same choices in their career like Arnold and Sly, to movie to comedy, only they went through this cycle a lot faster. They weren't even established as full blown action stars with the general audience yet, and already they went straight to comedy. And know they are in this weird limbo, Where they star in action movies that are just a bit too much tongue in cheek. It's very different from old skool action stars, where you had to see the ridilousness yourself, and not have it pointed out to you every other minute.

The Night Comes for Us was great. What a fucking fantastic scene this was.

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Listen to the man himself, very thoughtful. Very conscious of classical rules from old Hollywood but also innovations and rule-breaking from European arthouse, obsessed with ways of framing physical space/geography, composing movements and cuts in very logical and highly technical ways but also "like notes in a piece of music." Like the other user said it's why his movies "flow" so well, very precise yet pleasantly and elegantly rather than just being autistic structure. Every cut/frame/movement has to have both a purpose/logic and a rhythm/melody. Most other action filmmakers can't even do one or the other.
youtu.be/hgW4vcwZTww?t=193

The best action films of the 00s and 10s stand up with the best of the 80s and 90s

most likely over saturation, too many action movies in a short timespan so viewers lost interest

What are those films?

Don't put me on the spot like that. Just take my word.

Compare
McT's masterclass in kinomaking
youtube.com/watch?v=_dPHjsyQL54
to
youtube.com/watch?v=rUpvwMLHdUE

Notice
- how much more cinematic and engaging it is, the set design makes it feel like it's obviously a real building, instead of a studio elevator with a green screen in a fake generic building
- how much more menacing the situation feels, with the restricted space of the elevator used in a way that feels immersive and dangerous, how the characters strategically use their body weights to block others against tight walls instead of mindlessly punching each other without any sense of physics
- the use of mirror reflection to creatively inform the viewer, the use of framing and lighting to focus on the potential threat, the depth in focus and use of angle and blocking to highlight McLane's weaker position and slow realization's something's off
- how tense it feels, how viscerally brutal the action actually feels with each gunshot and punch having real impact due to great sound design and editing, etc.
- how the sense of humor/"quips" is actually amusing AND reflects/develops the character's personality in face of danger, using the joke to surprise the enemies, directly contrasts with the actual hard-R violence performed right after, John being covered in injuries, dirt, grease, and now blood and guts, he's actually vulnerable and tired during the fight, etc.
- how he only cuts when needed and lets the scene unfold naturally otherwise with no cuts, how each angle chosen has an actual narrative purpose, how the camera movement has some musical rhythm to it, slowly circling around the elevator to mimic John's perspective as he looks around him to identify threats, following his point of view then slowly zooming in to reveal information when he sees the reflection, always with matching cuts that enhance the geometrical understanding of the space and where John is compared to others
- how the music builds up then stops WHEN the action begins

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Tagged. What's your opinion on Michael Mann and Michael Bay?

Even Bourne didn't do it right. The Moscow car chase in Supremacy is still one of the most incomprehensible chases I've ever seen. The fight scene is also terrible and difficult to follow.

Okay I'll just take your word for it.

based

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its not kill, its waiting.
trends come and go

.......yikes

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>The Expandables made tons of money
>John Wick made tons of money
>Even shit like The Equalizer made tons of money
Action is still there, it's just overshadowed by capeshit where the mediocre ones got $1 billion in box office.

He had an ample window around The Rundown. Instead he took on babby roles. He is shit and his action roles are CGI-infested shit.

1. Increasing reliance on older actors to helm action movies since younger stars lack masculinity.
2. Increasing reliance on fast cutting and shaky cam to pass off those older actors as action stars.
3. Chinese influence leading to more outlandish and cartoonish stunts that require lots of CGI.
4. Political correctness rendering it impossible to have realistic villains such as Muslim terrorists, Chicoms, Mexican cartels, etc.
5. Furthering point 4, most villains today tend to be supernatural/supervillains or some bland, interchangeable mercenary company of uinformed, helmeted goons.
6. Action movies also need to be written like any other movie, and like all other genres, there's been a steep decline in the quality of screenwriting in the past decade or so.
7. Irony negating traditional values of heroism and courage as uncool.
8. Fractured moviegoing audience prefers either cartoonishly over-the-top CGIfests like Dawyne Jonhson movies or gritty, hyperreal shakycam stuff like the Bourne or Taken movies; little in the way of balance.
9. Filmmakers don't know how to create likable characters like John McLane or sympathetic characters like John Rambo anymore, it's all Marvel-style snark or bloordthirsty Equalizer-like rage right now.
10. Filmmakers are too obsessed with visual style and forget that action movies need plots to work.

this is also true, Die Hard made such a big impact on the action scene that practically every big action film until the Matrix was a clone of it (with the exception of a few James Cameron and Paul Verhoeven films, Demolition Man, ). In just a few years we had:
Die Hard 2
Passenger 57
Speed
Con Air
Cliffhanger
Under Siege
Broken Arrow
Die Hard 3
Sudden Death
The Rock

they all followed the same concept of reluctant hero forced into a situation where he was alone fighting against bad guys.

A seething glownigger made this post, go back to harassing incels on /r9k/ to shoot up their achools

The fuck how can shit like this be considered good

Giving women any importance in action movies whatsoever. And that is how our civilisation dies.
>80s-90s peak human civilisation with all races and countries liking and even loving each other without it being forces on you.
What changed. THE PROMINENCE OF WOMEN and their insatiable appetites. I JUST WISH THEY ALL GREW FAT AND DIED FROM OBESITY.

user, the funny thing is, you don't understand the movie. Try rewatching it, maybe you have grown. It happens to me too.

I have to say that Fast Five is probably the most masculine action movie in the modern era, next to Expandables

Will peak Arnold ever be surpassed?

>interchangeable mercenary company
I'm so sick of the dubious private security firm. I guess it could be good but nobody does it well.

I'm a Mann fanboy. I don't enjoy Bay's usual excesses, pandering and trashy sensibilities or the materials he usually works with. Tonal messes, hollow characters, shit stories so I never care about what's at stake. His action scenes may be impressive on a technical level but are only thought out and engineered for immediate gratification, have no moral weight to them, no cohesiveness, no wit or grit, cool shots rollercosters and nothing more. I thought 13 Hours was terrific and a strong exception, the best of his style without the worse, very high impact high energy, without his usual tasteless bullshit and kindergarten sense of humor, tonally cohesive, well paced/structured and a decent script. I thought he'd be free to do more interesting and """mature""" stuff after Transformers but his next project is netflix capeshit so I have zero interest.

>Killed
Think again OP

youtu.be/4vWg5yJuWfs
youtu.be/4vWg5yJuWfs
youtu.be/4vWg5yJuWfs

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I forgot about the entire movie

action movies became like westerns.

Did anyone see Braven? I liked it way more than I thought I would. It was refreshing seeing a regular guy fighting off the bad guys and not some top secret ex commando.

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Oh cool. Rambo fighting evil mexicans now

man that's a good post

russos are tv pleb and mctier is toptier

Thx. I'll be sure to check out 13 Hours. I did enjoy the Turtles though. Transformers was a non stop bombardment, but for some reason it didn't bother me as much as it did with Transformers. Ultimately forgettable movies too, but I didn't feel like putting my fist through the screen the whole time. The action was Bay level though, as always. But it's impressive that he has a fingerprint. You can spot a Bay movie a mile off.

+1 for 13 hours.

>3. Chinese influence leading to more outlandish and cartoonish stunts that require lots of CGI.
Is this really what the Chinese enjoy, or is it just zoomers who grew up playing video games? or both?

The nice thing about Kurt Russel is, he can fit in anywhere in any cast. Without compromising himself. Dude was a proper A-lister, but I think Backdraft is probably the closest thing to a big budget movie he has done. And Stargate.

When is he going to fight liberals?

Why would he do that?

Taslim will make a great sub-zero. I'm cautiously optimistic that casting signals an intent to make a true martial arts film. Iko Uwais as Liu Kang,Scott Adkins as Johnny Cage, Hiroyuki Sanada as Shang. A man can dream.

Way of the gun was great

>can't you people see there are guns here!

>MOVE!
>MOVING!

>muh chuck norris
>no jet li
r*ddit thread

The Matrix.

By that logic, you could say the Matrix was the beginning of the end too. A computer geek and wageslave could become the superhero that saved the world. On a surface level, but you know what I mean.

What was up with all of those Jet Li/DMX movies in the early 2000's? I liked them but it just seemed like a weird match. And of course Tom Arnold played the part he plays in all of those movies.

captain ron is top tier comedy on billion dollar budget
and that air force one movie that wasn't air force one was high budget too for its time
poseidon maybe the effects were kinda nice

there's just two of them right?
romeo must die and exit wounds
oh no it was cradle 2 the grave
exit wounds was seagal and dmx

Anyone see Upgrade? I never heard of it before the other day and it was pretty good.

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For me it's Romeo Must Die

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it's pretty meh so better than john wick

I guess you're right. I'm not sure why I thought there were more. Jet Li had a pretty good run there for a while.

I liked what's her names ass in cradle 2 the grave.

Sherlock Holmes

Capeshit

Gabby

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I thought it was fun. I wasn't sure what kind of movie it was going to be so when he started kicking that guys ass it totally caught me off guard. That might be why I liked it because I didn't have the right expectations.

The last Rambo was fucking kino.

I'll check out Captain Ron. Poseidon I've only seen the one with Ernest Borgnine. The 'Airforce One' one is probably 'Critical Decision'. It has Halle Berry and Steven Seagal, sounds interesting.

Any comment on The Raid or it's sequel?

Stuber was guilty of this. Not a machine gun, though.

Tarkovskij fags btfo

That's it. Booty was poppin.

don't think too much

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women & betas

There's probably not a soul on here who doesn't think they could've done a better job. Even with zero job experience and no education it takes a special kind of talent to fuck up this bad. It boggles the mind that these people would get funding.

>What killed the action genre?
HOLLYWOOD LAZINESS.
>1999.
Star Wars episode one was released along with the Matrix.
The combination of these two films proved to hollywood that Actors didn't need to be martial artists in order to do good martial arts, you can take any good actor and given sufficient training they should be able to pull off any martial arts. These two films revolutionised the C.G.I. industry and invented pre-visual design, allowing hollywood to make large strides towards non-practical effects.
>2000
Gladiator and X-men are released. Again, more successful use of C.G.I. and non-action star actors. X-men ushers forth an age where intellectual property becomes more valuable than star actors. This means that funding eventually goes toward adapting popular stories, rather than stars becoming attached to well-written scripts or stories catering to their abilities or natural charisma. This a good thing for actors, not action stars.
>2002
Bourne identity is released and successful. Utilising all the above with Fight choreography devolves to short, on set lessons. Hollywood will eventually be able to use actors with big names, but not with strikingly large paychecks attached to fufill action roles. (Later, we'll see the reversal, where 80's action stars like Dolph Lundgren work in tv shows like Arrow, and The Expendables is able to piece together multiple action stars for one film without being ultra expensive.)
Spiderman is also released, further cementing the move to the superhero genre.
>2003
Actually a great year for action films. A strong mix of CGI enhancing live-action without devolving it. Strong Practical effects all around.
The important thing to note in this year is the success of actor led action films. T3 was critically awful (although successful). The Rock and Vin Diesel's careers take off here, and they're arguably the only A-list action stars still around.

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>this is a fucking retard
I was playing through the start of Spec Ops and immediately assumed "this is just Apocalypse Now with kebabs instead of Vietnamese, and is also worse"

>given sufficient training they should be able to pull off any martial arts.
Doing the movements isn't that hard, the hard part is timing it right against an opponent who is trying to kick your ass.

Overly choreographed
I'm not a fan of that but if you're into John Wick and whatnot you'll probably like it

The only recent action movie with balls is Dragged Across Concrete. Low test is what killed the action genre.

Zoomers. Movies like Predator would be "too problematic" for them.

1 was amazing, 2 wasn't so tight

The Rock makes PG-13 kid flicks. He has never made anything on the level of Predator, Conan, Rambo, the Terminator, Robocop, Die Hard etc.

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Buncha slack jawed faggots

Do people on Yea Forums unironically think they're not low test and beta?

The rise of spectacle blockbusters post Independance Day that largely replace combat action with large scale destruction set pieces didn't help. But the true culprit is always gonna be the PG13. Pandering to that rating so that you can get more asses in seats has killed more films than anything else in hollywood in the last 2 decades and it goes beyond just action movies.

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Good thing Hobbes and Shaw will change that!

Right now only John Wick keeps the genre alive.

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there is no such thing as shaky cam and quick cuts done right, never

I agree but I turned the second one off so maybe it got better at the end. The stairwell shootout in the first one was awful but I was able to get past it. In the second one they totally lost me in that shootout where both sides are just standing there spraying into each other.

They weren't profitable enough.

I think you mean Mission Impossible.

They feel like a neutered version of an action movie

Everyone always forgets about 'The Specialist' but I liked it better than 'Cliffhanger'. + it had a nice shower sex scene with Sharon Stone in it. Which was the ultimate back then. Anyone Remember 'The Hard Way' With Michael J. Fox and James Woods? Loved it as a kid. The bad guy from Avatar played some insane bad guy in it.

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How so?

No tits

No dicks

No clits

Liberals are the saviours of peoplekind. He would never fight against the good guys.

kys and take that garbage away

>and Steven Seagal,

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Let's skip a few years.
>2006
By the time we get here. A vast majority of action films are lead by actors. Bruce Willis's success with sixth sense and unbreakable allows him to be an actor again. He starts flexing his acting muscles rather than his physical ones, even in films like Sin City, he's not taking on such a physical action role.
More importantly,
>300
You've got a cabal of actors who do nothing but hit the gym for six months prior to shooting, then you oil them up, spray tan them and highlight their ab muscles with makeup. Thanks to modern fitness and nutritional science, most actors being at a baseline of healthy anyway, hollywood can now make any actor physically impressive.
AND it's another case of heavy CGI, intellectual property lead success. What's wierd with 300, is that like Die Hard before it, made the starring actor into an action star.

By now all those action stars known for martial arts, are relegated to doing actual foreign martial art films rather than being imported into hollywood (We won't see the likes of Tony Jaa or Kanji Klub in hollywood until recently... for reasons) Actors can get ripped. Hollywood can make it's own stars and drive the production of movies with intellectual property. This is highlighted in....

>capeshit isn't action
Explain to me when both follow the same structure

Isn't capeshit action, in of itself? I don't get why you have to be such annoying contrarian at every given moment, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Superhero films...

It's Executive Decision. I haven't seen that since I was a little kid so I don't remember much.

The depiction of violence in capeshit seems so toned down. Wolverine, as a character had some violent moments. But there's no gravitas. You don't feel the impact and the fact that there are no more practical blood effects is probably a big thing too. Just look at the blood, or lack there of in The Expandables and John Wick. The blood effects from gun shots have been looking like shit for years now.

Thanks for this.

Can you have gravitas with that level of CGI? It removes you from being engaged with the film. The Black Panther fight scenes were by far the worst part of the films. Just completely meaningless video game action.

it's Executive Decision, must have bruised certain ego

The Matrix.

>You've got a cabal of actors who do nothing but hit the gym for six months prior to shooting, then you oil them up, spray tan them and highlight their ab muscles with makeup. Thanks to modern fitness and nutritional science, most actors being at a baseline of healthy anyway, hollywood can now make any actor physically impressive.
AND it's another case of heavy CGI, intellectual property lead success. What's wierd with 300, is that like Die Hard before it, made the starring actor into an action star.
also is not a movie but a loosely tied bunch of poorly stitched together cgi shots
it's a disaster of visual storytelling and narrative flow
the shots look nice individually but you can't edit them together into a movie

>2008
Iron man and The Dark Knight are both wildly successful and kick start the CAPESHIT PRODUCTION MACHINE. TDK is absolutely dogshit in comparison to Batman Begins in it's quality of fight choregraphy and filming. It actually picks up alot of hollywood lessons on shaky-cam. Ironman on the other hand is a light hearted CGI fest. There's one other film of note this year.
>TAKEN.
Now Taken is interesting, because despite it's excellent plotting, it's an exemplar case of the evolution of the action film. Liam Neeson is getting on in years, and all that low-training, shakey cam and high tension makes for quite an entertaining action film. Thanks to the cheapening of CGI, actors can safely wave guns around without practical effects or shooting blanks. If you know what to look for, this is a double edged sword that leads to the production of multiple cheap, crap action films, but allows for films like john wick to safely engage with Point-blank gun fu without blasting stunt men's faces in with blanks.
Furthermore, "Jaded Old Man lays down justice" is practically a sub-genre of action itself, and hollywood execs actively look for this kind of script. It's one of the reason's John wick got made (in the spec screenplay of John Wick - SCORN, John is a 60 year old). There's also the Equalizer, and almost every other Liam Neeson film since.

...

It was just a phase that lasted like 20 years. People act like it was some kind of a long lasting standard that's been around forever. Action movies obviously still exist, but that specific vibe you're talking about was a trend like any other that eventually passes.

Super hero movies aren't gonna be at the peak they are at now forever either.

Dude: US Marshals, Chaplin, Family Guy (Patrick), Air America, Tropic Thunder, Ally McBeal.

He's making a Dr. Doolittle movie now, and has been in movies since the 70's. Come on.

Antifa and SJ movements. Pauline Kael wisely wrote in her review of Dirty Harry, that a certain kind of the action genre has always had a fascist potential.

Have you ever seen anything produced by China? All the action is anime tier exaggerated.

I can forgive Wicks sometimes shitty cgi squibs because the intricate nature of the fight scenes would make timing all that shit with real squibs almost impossible without cuts and inserts that would definitely break the flow of the edit.
Expendables though doesn't have that excuse cos its much more traditional action and insert shots of bad guys getting squibbed Verhoeven style would have definitely worked. But they were cheap and lazy about it the first time round and of course people don't even bleed in the sequels which bowed down to the PG13 rating even after they said they wouldn't.

>ave you ever seen anything produced by China?
Nope.

Ang Bok, The Black Mask, The One...

Why? Why would you post this?

I made the mistake of watching some Chinese action movie some years back. All the costumes, special effects and choreography were like they were straight from a bad low budget tokusatsu show. Terrible. Just terrible.

The Man From Nowhere too.

Only one who does something different right now with bullet wounds is Tarantino. Not saying it's the best, but at least he has his own identity even when it comes to that. Verhoeven had great blood effects and so did Saving Private Ryan. I get your point about John Wick, but bulletshot gun wounds from a mediocre TV-show look the same as in a big budget movie. There's nothing there. Remember Bieber getting shot on CSI? Didn't look it up, but I bet even that one had better effects than what we have today.

But that's pretty much "1 action scene per movie"
Granted it was very impressive and cathartic
And that shot of jumping out the window with the tracking cam was insane

checked and also this

Nigga do you even watch movies
S. Craig Zahler

>But that's pretty much "1 action scene per movie"
That's fair, it's been a while since I have seen it and I'm usually pretty drunk.

I'm a big Kurt Russell fan. He is in my top 5 action guys for sure. He is pretty underrated too. Consistantly great in pretty much anything he appears in, even if the material he is working with is shit.

that's the point though, there is no "opponent" in a movie production just another actor who knows the choreography, so the hardest part becomes learning to make it look passable which can be done on set in a few days.

I kind of wanted to talk about Dredd but it's such a damn anomalie to lend any creedence to arguments.

So anyway, we're hitting the 2010's now and Vin Diesel, The Rock, Jason Statham, and (as soon as he divorces his wife) Tom Cruise are churning out the only action films of note around.
Alot of aging stars like Arnold, Stallone and Willis return to make smaller budget action pictures that are less noteworthy.

Newer breakout action stars like Gina Carano, Chris Hemsworth, Rhonda Rhousey, fail to gain any kind of marketable success. Reboots fail. Ryan Reynolds fails outside of capeshit. Channing Tatum for some reason decides to cash out and just do cameo's in every single movie for $$$$. Jai Courtney is still being pushed for some reason and no one cares. But there's probably no better actor to point to than the shilling of Sam Worthington as an actor literally no one fucking cares about driving action films that are endemic of everything wrong with them today.

There's a ton of other minor things I didn't mention, like Hong Kong, Robert Rodriguez falling in love with after effects, the independant film market (which is a whole essay of how it works and has changed)

There's one final point of note that leads to the death of action films, and it's also kind of the wierd thing reviving them against the success of Capeshit.

>CHINA.

>THE ICE AGE

kek

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>Craig Zahler
I'm talking about trends. Mainstream. Not hipster shit like 'Bone Tomahawk' and 'Drive'. They get credit just for trying something different, that's how barren the landscape has become. It's good that they're trying though.

No. An actual demigod.

If I ever need a test boost before going to the gym, I literally just watch clips of Predator or Conan the Barbarian on YouTube before going.

Works every time.

He already fought commies in Vietnam.

Seagal's movies are often terrible, cheesy, self-aggrandizing garbage, but because of that they are also extremely entertaining.

post-reagan conservatism

It would have been nice if they did more with the Clive Cussler books. I think they fucked up by starting with Sahara in stead of one of the other ones.

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> Arnold
Jingle all the way
Twins
Kindergarten cop
Jr.
Batman......

>Bruce
Moonlighting
Whole 9 yards
The Kid
Look who's talking

Yeah fuck off, The Rock is fine to branch out and do comedies and movies out of the "Action star" genre. He is absolutely an equal to them.

a interessting point but most hero in marv are buff , chris evans , hemswrth and pratt have shirtless scene .

Yeah that's what I like about them.

Speaking of which, did any of you see China Salesman? Fucking hell, I don't know what I expected.

Want to know kino?

youtube.com/watch?v=LKc4TalCA3k

I don't think I get the point then, please be patient I have autism. If an actor can do a passable scene then why is that a bad thing? Or are you saying it's not passable, it's just hollywood passable?

but they make the best (current) action movies with good choreography, no shakycam BS and no fucks given about *clap* ToXiC *clap* mAsCuLiNiTy *clap*

I dont know why but I dont hate this nor do I hate this movie. In the heat of the moment it kinda makes sense. QoS is kinda underrated in the sense that its a little like the bourne movies (albeit not as well done) where the cuts and the action kinda compliment each other. idk I like it.

>2019
>I am forgotten

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ahit

I liked the fight scenes in Man of Steel.

youtube.com/watch?v=xqlaXylsMwQ

whats his name again?

80s action movies weren't flagrant neoliberal police state propaganda, and depicted conflict at smaller scale and with less spectacle. It really isn't the same shit no matter how you try to spin it.

Clint Boomerwood

*disney completely removes the netflix shows out of existence*

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dredd user.

Anybody know why Richie did Bobby Lupo???

seconded

Now china is a real clusterfuck to discuss. You've got an autocratic government afraid of making movies about ghosts with a dichotomy of mistresses and everyone cheating on each other in reality and almost unspoken hay's code of doing nothing naughty in films. They own Hong Kong now too and they're best described as the hollywood of martialshit, which is how we end up with team ups with things like triple threat, killzone 2.

Most importantly, you've got an inflated economy, a market of over a billion people and you're slowly spreading cinema's across the country. Because they fucking love CGI fests (except star wars because the sequel trilogy is shit), you've got a growing market saving hollywood failures but also more of china getting into film. Which is why you're starting the see the tencent and H.Brothers logo around because they want closer ties to hollywood.

Slap on some "let's be best friends" money and you've got co-operative productions like The Meg (and it's real sad when an acceptable action film recently is just 'Jason Statham Kill Shark Yay!'), and good will hunting in Great Wall. It's why Donnie Yen turns up Rogue One, his first hollywood film of note since Blade 2. There's even a co-operative china-american screenwriting competition (that's china and america friendly, not another minority diversity campaign).

Now I can't speak for the future, but this will probably only continue with more dumb action films until the chinese economy implodes at some unknown point in the next millenia. When that happens it's either gonna die out or hollywood will descend like vultures for the cheap skilled labor and currency devaluation.

It's worth noting that with this in mind, The Matrix is looking for a sequel/reboot, a film with the symptoms of all the defining modern action characteristics long before they were a thing.

Zoomer here, but I'm freaking hyped for Last Blood

Its not a bad thing that they can do a passable scene, the point is they realized instead of needing Jet Li or Tony Ja to make action movies, all you needed was quick edits and a few brief moments of choreography, then anyone looks like Jet Li for .5 sec.

It's because of shit like this I'm waiting on the inevitable pull of hollywood towards bollywood, since India is just china 2; electric poointheloo. (Not that rural china is any better with public defecation)

>other things I forgot to talk about, Tax subsidies.

Now what's really interesting is the growth of action television. We've got Spartacus (r.i.p.), Into the badlands and Daredevil being the ones of critical acclaim, and then a shit ton of successful but average action tv shows, (Your CW action shows like Arrow, aimed at a YA audience). Who knows what'll ha

Ah, I see. Tony Jaa is the man, I really like Tiger Chen too.

YOS

Let's not forget that they were also a lot more violent than anything that come out at that time. Seagal's trademark has always been violence. Knocking a guy's teeth out with a billiard ball in a sock, Thrusting a knife into Tommy Lee Jones his skull from above, blowing a guy's leg of with a shotgun,...
I'm still a fan btw, but Seagal's trademarks have always been
>more graphic violence than his competitors
>Respect for nature and locals
>has ties with government people
>Runs like a girl
>Never gets hurt, there's not even a struggle, you know he's going to win from the get go
His big and a physically imposing figure always worked for him on screen. The straight face worked for him, not a speck of Irony. Other heroes always had to go to a struggle, but never Seagal. He'd make you eat your nuts and then ask you about the nature of life. He's from Brooklyn too. Worst accent ever. But did anyone ever mock him for that? No.

This still doesn’t look as bad as Taken 3 lmao

Action used to be the peak of spectacle you could achieve in movies and still maintain suspension of belief.
Thanks to CGI, action has been defeated by capeshit, which provides greater spectacles while still maintaining disbelief (for the average normie of course, not the super-patrician discerning non-autist that you are, Yea Forums reader).
Basically computers are good enough now to where they can make a guy shoot lasers out of his fist at the giant purple man without literally drawing onto filmstock in crayon or whatever they had to resort to in 1975.
Compared to that, Bruce Willis shooting a regular old gun at a regular old bad guy isn't as cool.

>Bruce Willis shooting a regular old gun at a regular old bad guy isn't as cool
I disagree. With the right build up (the whole arch), sound and deciding on how you want to film it you can still get as much emotional response. Capeshit is literally just whistles and bells without a story on any level of the process. On the whole, there's exceptions.

based retard

The Matrix

Look at what actually happens on the screen - bunch of betas lazily wave hands towards each other, with lasers added in post production - Cumberbatch is the best example of this.
No strength behind it, no tangible impacts, nothing

White men aren't allowed to have muscles.

Seagal is knocked out in this one.

This has been a nice thread. I enjoyed talking and listening. At the very least I got two movie recommendations out of it, so overall, not a bad haul.

>his first hollywood film of note since Blade 2
Oh Jesus, he was so young in that.

Same. What two movies are you thinking about?

13 Hours and Captain Ron.

You both HAVE to watch Dredd 2012 if you haven't by some miracle.

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Captain Ron is kino.

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>Bruce Willis's success with sixth sense and unbreakable allows him to be an actor again. He starts flexing his acting muscles rather than his physical ones, even in films like Sin City, he's not taking on such a physical action role
I feel like this was the case for Arnie as well. He was known as "that buff guy with a funny accent" so I think he felt like he had to prove he's a capable actor as well so he starred in films like Jingle All The Way and Junior. Succeeded too, for some reason his acting is stiff as wood and hilarious at the same time.

Alright, alright. Don't get your hopes up though.
And yours?

This picture looks terrible. If it's going to be tongue in cheek assinine shit I will end you.

The PG-13 and 150mil dollar production budgets with an additional 300mil for marketing.

Die Hard, unironically.
Action movies went from turbo alpha males killing shit to the reluctant "everyman" put in an action situation.

Ok champ. I'll live in fear until the day you strike.

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This scene, with music and the context of the build up and the opera unfolding, works very well.

But the whole film missed the mark apart from the ending with Bond in the snow.

Still better than Skyfall and Spectre.

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it's meh

Nice. I like both of those movies.

It's been so long since I've seen that it will feel like the first time again.

Oh I just meant it's a fun thread, I didn't get two movies to watch. But tonight I'm going to watch Miami Connection and Rogue Male, MC looks bad enough to be good and I'm hoping RM might have some cool guns in it.

Why be ashamed, as an actor, if you're a one trick poney? It's one trick more than most people have. Don't milk it, but don't be ashamed of it either. All these people riding Shwarzeneggers' dick now because he's become a more serious actor. Bullshit. He's old and they write the roles around him more fittingly. He's more interesting as a person, and he can work that into his role. But this guy was never an actor in the way that he could portray a large number of differnet people. And I'm not prejudice. I'm open to him trying new things. But he was never an actor. An Icon and a legend. Sure! But not an actor in the sense that he is able to portray a character with a psychology different from his own.

kino as fuck, but way too much bad movies by the mid 90s, they saturated the genre and stealth type of action became trendy

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>triple threat
That movie has no excuse for not being great.

The thing what gets us all...Age

>repeating meme opinions
yikes

For context

youtu.be/OFx7hEt940c

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Alright, so Dredd is just, fucking wierd, because it's a critical success and box office failure.

Most box office films fail or just about break even when they're average, with exploded budgets and marketing campaigns and they heavily market something people don't care about which is sometimes due to heavy IP milking. That's your John Carters, your latest Pirates of the carribeans, transformers, terminators and star wars: solo. None of those films are really 'bad' per se, although you can argue against Michael Bay's film-making with a degree of success.

You've got Karl Urban, who's a niche nerd-action star. He's in trek, Lord of the rings, Doom, the Hercules tv show, riddick, pathfinder. Everyone loves this guy. He's like Chris Evan's if Chris never broke out into household name-hood with Captain America (i'm sure there's an argument here about cult success's following up with TV shows. Snowpiercer now has one, and if the Dredd tv show ever turns up, it might cement Rebellion's new studio as production company/location in the UK).

So he goes and does Dredd, a film with a relatively notable intellectual property behind it to critical success on a $40 million budget. And as we all know, it just fucking bombs financially.

All the elements are there for action film success, the only possible thing it has against it is it's R-rating, and a few special effects seem dated. It's CGI is of quality, it's got gunplay, martial arts, chase sequences, a tight plot, dark humour, one-liners that aren't relegated to quips or bathos AND it's written by Alex Garland.

it's pg-13

Dredd is also independantly financed. I have no clue how Adi Shankar afforded the rights.

But we hit an age of shitty action films and capeshit. 2012 is filled with crap action films, and then Avengers rakes in the cash at the head of it all.

So there's this absolute failure in the marketing department for Dredd, and they're pushing the 3D aspect hard. Not only that, but lots of films around now are pushing 3D as a marketing technique, yet somehow, people find Dredd as the scape-goat of 'we can't be bothered with 3D' anymore. And there's also this die-hard following of the Stallone film from people's childhood. Thirdly, it comes out near to The Raid, and audiences criticise it for being a rip-off. (Because you know, good guy trapped in a building filled with badguys is such a unique concept, who cares about Die Hard.)

So somehow, Dredd has just about every ingredient of breakout action success for it's time, and the criticism of modern action films just falls upon it hard enough to sway audiences from going to see it. Dredd is almost a warning for anyone trying to make good action films up until John Wick was a major success. Dredd did have a remarkable home-market success, but unfortunately streaming services are picking up and the west is still recovering from the financial crisis, so home release isn't the same profit it once was.

I never see this movie talked about. I liked it a lot.

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I really want to know what movie they put on there

>David Ayer
no wonder the dialogue was cringy and the gun parts shitty
arnie kino as always
oh and btw
>female undercover skank
sure thing

nothing

I wouldn't really say Arnie is a "one trick pony" because he absolutely can play a range of characters. In Terminator he comes off as a completely emotionless killing machine, in Conan a fierce warrior with intense passion, and in his comedy roles he's goofy and whimsical. He tried his hand at a bunch of different roles and managed to pull off all of them pretty much perfectly. In fact that's pretty much his life story - started bodybuilding, became a world renowned one, tried acting, now he's an iconic Hollywood star, tried politics, big surprise, he became governor of the 7th biggest economy in the world. No way to get around it, the guy is just a natural winner.

I thought the gunplay was fine. I liked getting to see a SCAR 17 in a movie. I also liked how they used murder holes and shot through walls and stuff. The dialogue was pretty cringy though, I'll give you that.
>female undercover skank
idk I could see some undercover agents turning shady as fuck after a while on the job.

Dredd didn't make money because it had fuck all marketing. Even Urban shat on the distributors for this.

it's shit
this one is good

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>I disagree. With the right build up (the whole arch), sound and deciding on how you want to film it you can still get as much emotional response. Capeshit is literally just whistles and bells without a story on any level of the process. On the whole, there's exceptions.
I agree. Ever seen "Calvary"? It's a drama where the end twist of the movie is literally spoiled in the first scene yet the build-up to it still makes that final scene emotionally moving.

If Dredd was a success, we probably would have ended up with an earlier Deadpool and Logan with higher budgets. Karl Urban would probably have dropped out of trek to do Dredd sequels. Studio's would have probably fought for better scripts for action films. Ones tightly plotted and with style, without being written by comittee or 4+ screenwriters. (I'd point to Dredd's failure as to one of the reasons why the only film i'm excited for this year is Fast and Furious 17: the rock is a big american hero on steroids & Jason Statham martial arts while squinting sarcastically vs Idris Ebla. As laughable as the FF franchise is, i'm in literal 'just turn your brain off bro' mode and watching it drunk). Who knows, maybe we might have ended up with a punisher adaptation that wasn't just 'okay'.

I honestly don't know what happened there. It's like if Fury Road failed at the box office. I'm sure Dredd is gonna have a ton of influence on future film-makers and scare the shit out studios for no good reason. Dredd came out at this weird period where audience clout did nothing because studio execs are... well they're studio execs, so if you're not Disney you're either working for the mentally retarded or you are mentally retarded. So Dredd doesn't get a sequel. Firefly never came back as a tv show. And then it's not for another three years that we're able to get Deadpool and then Logan.

So that's why Dredd stands out. It's almost a perfect synthesis of genre and because it failed we get the same comittee written action/capeshit that we have for a while, unless you're the Rock or Tom Cruise.

youtube.com/watch?v=6ZrsJsvL30g

Love your passion. Just bought it. So, not all is lost like tears in rain. I take opinions from people on here. You'll have to forgive me the crappy screenshot, I'm getting old.

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Dredd had next to no marketing IIRC, played on few screens at an inopportune time. Sold tremendously on Blu-ray/webdl. Urban is a huge Dredd fan btw.