Kylo Ren is supposedly the biggest, baddest dude

The conflict is as it should have been in Force Awake: A race against time and each other.

They have to go somewhere/get something/find someone and they have to be the first to do it. Once they have that McMuffin, then they'll win the day. Whoever gets it.

Probably accomplished in spite of Lucas. He's an idiot pelican, don't forget that just because the new movies are assembled by an algorithm that runs on soi.

It's just a movie for kids. Who cares.

Why is nu-wars so shit? Who is responsible?

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Remember that joke in Family Guy Star Wars?

>Obi Wan: But there are alternatives to fighting.
Han: Like what?
Obi Wan: Like getting the hell out of here! No, just kidding. Can you imagine if I was like that? All right, just follow my lead and act real cool.

Who knew that Luke Skywalker would actually turn out like that

Rey joining him would have been cool but this a children's movie do it can't happen.

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There's nothing magic about it:
>young, flawed, growing protag
>badass bad guy
The protag keeps getting his ass beat until he grows enough to beat the bad guy at the end.
It's called "character/story arc".
In the new Star Wars they were too busy propagating girrrrrrrl power from the very start to bother with basic storytelling.

But then who would've been the protag?

Finn and Cameron Poe?

Rey and Kylo, against the first order.

Nah. Lucas is a weird case. He's not that good of a director. He's shit with actors. He can't write dialogue to save his life. But his name's attached to some of the most beloved movies ever: American Graffit, Star Wars, the Indiana Jones films.

I didn't get it either until I discovered the Raiders' transcripts. Basically it's a transcript of a story meeting between Lawrence Kasdan, Spielberg and Lucas wherein they brainstorm out the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I would highly recommend reading it because it's clear Lucas had literally all the ideas for all 3 Indiana Jones films, he basically spews out the plot of Raiders, half the plot of Temple of Doom and a shit-ton of elements that ended up making their way into the Last Crusade. Spielberg does have one good idea, the boulder chase scene which is probably the most iconic moment in the film but the rest of his ideas are just kinda shit. That's not to say all Lucas's ideas are good or that they didn't need editing down but that's the thing, in the meeting he's giving all his good ideas to a better director and a better writer in order to make the film better than he could by himself.

Of course the prequels still suck but Lucas just needs talented people around him and not to be surrounded by yes-men and sycophants in order to make his skills shine. Shit if you look up old interviews about the original Star Wars all the actors were making fun of the script back then.

They would be the weakest protagonists ever.

The "first order" would be the weakest antagonist ever.

Lucas was the one who came up with the whole Indiana Jones concept in the first place too.
He saw it as a James Bond-type franchise.

He's brilliant at coming up with a general concept, some story outlines and set pieces, but shit at literally everything else.

>They would be the weakest protagonists ever.
Yes, as written. But I think we're already assuming there will be better writing and better directing if we're playing the game of "how could this have been better."

SPBP

Pretty much the only way to salvage this mess is to make Rey switch sides and completely obliterate the opposition at the end of this trilogy.
This would make a great set-up for the next trilogy too.

>Kylo Ren is supposedly the biggest, baddest dude

Literally when is this ever implied? From the beginning he's been the definition of "kylo wanted to be hardcore but his mom wouldn't let him". He's unironically the only decent character in the entire trilogy. He's also the only character with any sort of character arc.

>Literally when is this ever implied?
He's literally the main bad guy.

why are they so afraid of making badass villains these days? Imagine if Luke had btfo'd Vader in the original film, would anyone have taken him seriously in the next one?

In what film? He's not in the first, he wasn't in the second. The second set him up to be in the third but it turns out he's not going to be in that either.

He's always portrayed as being conflicted.

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Kylo being a pathetic retarded loser is more enjoyable to watch than just having another soulless Vader clone.

Maybe but someone has to be the actual threat to the heroes or there's not going to be any real tension or stakes, I guess that's why they are going to bring Sheev back.

>In what film? He's not in the first, he wasn't in the second

haha what?

Snoke is the biggest bad in both of those films.

I agree, don't get me wrong.

>W-we were always going to bring back the emperor from the start

Has there ever been a bigger lie in the history of film? It's legitimately pathetic that they've reached this level of damage control with their butchered trilogy.

That's like saying the Emperor was the main villain of the OT, instead of Vader.

I would give him a little more credit than that, there is definitely a magic to his stuff that's solely his own, it's even there in the prequels it's just happening in the worst way possible, and that's something that isn't just in the new films but is lacking from everything that's tried to copy the Lucas magic.

You're being wrong.

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Women shouldn't face conflict, not even in fictional stories. That's sexism and sexism is illegal.

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The Emperor was "The biggest, baddest dude" in the original trilogy. Vader wasn't even respected by some other high ranking officials. I know, it's sometimes hard to remember that Vader wasn't actually supposed to be space Jesus. It doesn't help with all the retards parrotting George's retarded claims of "Star Wars was always intended to be the story of Anakin Skywalker from the beginning".

>The Emperor was "The biggest, baddest dude" in the original trilogy.
He was the leader behind the scenes, but Vader was the "biggest, baddest dude" in the OT.

I don't get it.

The conflict is how the Force is willing to kill trillions in its pursuit of balance.

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What the fuck was the point of this guy and why did he transition from an ominous ghost to a flimsy old man cartoon between the two movies? Was it a cryptic jab at Orange Man?

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Find Snoke.

This
also figuring out what fan service they haven't milked yet. I mean introducing Lando now, or the medals from the end of episode 4 is really just scraping the bottom of the barrel

Why?

>What the fuck was the point of this guy
TFA was just a carbon copy of the OT and Snoke was the new version of the Emperor.

>He's brilliant at coming up with a general concept, some story outlines and set pieces, but shit at literally everything else.
Why did people lie to me about Lucas being a bad editor and all that "ANH was saved in editing by Marcia" stuff?

I'm reading this book, and not only do people like John Milius say things like pic related, but it talks about how Lucas was the one who decided that the original guy he had hired to edit was shit, and brought in Marcia and two other people and gave them direction on how he wanted the edit, and was very hands on.

He was apparently a respected editor.

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How did the first order manage to take over the galaxy after their super weapon got blown up?

If the next film was more kylo focused dealing with a very strong apprentice seriously threatening to overthrough him I'd be mildly interested
>emporor fucking palpatene
Into the trash it goes

That poster contains all the main characters.
Snoke isn't one of them.
Just like the Emperor isn't in the original posters, but Vader is.

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For me its THX1138

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>He was apparently a respected editor.
The original film was saved from Lucas' increasingly stupid bullshit by independent editors.

Not that guy but the emperor was only mentioned in anh, he never appeared unlike snoke in tfa.

Exactly. It would've actually been subversive and interesting
Eh, there was enough. Kylo has been raving on about the pull of the light side and his inner conflict for the entirety of episode 7, and Rey has been shown to be greedy, emotional and angry.

>The original film was saved from Lucas' increasingly stupid bullshit by independent editors.
Ones he supervised?

Your point? The Emperor was still the ultimate evil that needed to be defeated. He was the most evil "biggest bad" there was. Vader was his lackey.

>Who is responsible?
youtube.com/watch?v=NRIr9MNmCwU

That just makes no logical sense.
George Lucas had no co- director on the set of ANH.
Marcia and whoever the fuck else you think really made the movie weren't even on set.

Same thing with ESB and ROTJ.
Pic related.

>The Emperor was still the ultimate evil that needed to be defeated.
But Vader was the biggest, baddest dude.
The Emperor's main muscle.

Same as Kylo Ren in the new trilogy.

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Luke, Finn and Poe

Go watch early cinema from before serious film editing became a widespread thing. Every single movie released following the 1910s was "saved in the edit" first cuts of movies are universally bad. How is this any different than any other film of the time?

Mark Hamill and Steven Spielberg contend that Lucas was solely responsible for the overall vision and aesthetic of the films (a Space opera B-Movie done on the scale of an Epic Movie with mixes of Japanese Jidai Geki and The Western) and that he had to constantly fight naysayers, producers, and cast and crew who didn't take the film seriously because the subject matter seemed childish to them, as it did to most audiences of Science Fiction B-Movie before Star Wars. In the case of The Empire Strikes Back, Lucas served as producer and writer; while the film was directed by Irving Kershner, Lucas was entirely and solely responsible for the film's central Plot Twist (Luke, I Am Your Father), as well as deciding on the Han/Leia romance, creating the characters of Yoda and Lando Calrissian, without which it's unlikely that The Empire Strikes Back would be as respected as it is. Lucas was also more hands-on in Return of the Jedi owing to the contentious direction of Richard Marquand.

youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk

Also, reminder that Lucas had full control over the prequels.

Do you have any idea how movie editing works? This is based on misconceptions about film-production.The truth of the matter as anyone with familiarity with film production will tell you is that rough cuts of most good to great films are always pretty lousy (and so they are called "rough" for that very reason). So while others did play a major part in making A New Hope great, it would be an exaggeration, and likewise unfair to other collaborators (including George himself), to claim that it single-handedly saved the theatrical film or was alone responsible for the theatrical film turning out right simply because an editor did what many great editors have done on countless film productions.

Luke being the protag again is shit writing.
And Finn and Poe have no business being protags. Obviously.

>The PT are his own creation through and through
Did you see the production documentaries? Guys like Carrie Fisher & Spielburg reviewed his stuff.

Stop writing all that stupid shit like anyone cares.
Remember where you are. Be concise, and end your post with "faggot", faggot.

Video's shit

>Guys like Carrie Fisher & Spielburg reviewed his stuff.
As friends. Not as actual counterweights.

>mfw there are actual paid Star Wars and George Lucas shills itt

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Lando is the most forgettable "popular" aspect of the original trilogy.

>As friends. Not as actual counterweights.
>he doesn't know about Fisher doctoring scripts

The Emperor needed to be defeated, but that could only be done through Vader. Vader was the main antagonist, the main focus of Luke, and his redemption is literally Vader throwing away the evil within him at the expense of his own life. Vader and Kylo are plot-wise the same kind of character, neither Snoke nor Empy are that important.

>I would give him a little more credit than that
Fucking why?
Coming up with the basic concepts and storylines is the absolute greatest gift of all.
The whole point of having editors, foleys, key fucking grips, ... is so the main idea guy doesn't get overloaded and can keep a good overview of things.

Lucas shills have to paint Lucas as an absolute master at everything.

>Also, reminder that Lucas had full control over the prequels.
Not that guy but can we stop this meme?
Some of the best editing in the Star Wars movies isn't even from the OT.
example-
Obi-Wan's "who could have done this" -cuts to- Anakin slaughtering the Seperatist leaders -cuts to- Palpatine addressing the senate about the Empire.
Or the intercutting of Padme and Anakin both on operating tables (the scenes originally played one after the other in the script).
Or the ending montage that has no dialogue. The wipe from the Jappor snippet in Padme's dead fingers into the now grey Star Destroyers is sublime.

The editing is great in the OT as well, but Marcia was one of THREE editors on ANH who were all collaborating with George who was a noted editor in his own right.

I don't disagree that Vader was the main antagonist of the original trilogy. He wasn't, however, the biggest baddest evil guy.

This is the type of shit you write when you are literally paid to shill George Lucas.

>Lucas shills have to paint Lucas as an absolute master at everything.
Not that guy but there's a concerted "George is was and will always be shit" narrative that's been pushed for twenty years now.

People like to downplay his contributions and push others to the forefront, despite the fact that he nearly broke himself from the stress of getting ANH right and has been hands-on on ways not a lot of directors are willing to do, and it's his directions that largely pushed special effects to greater bounds.

>He wasn't, however, the biggest baddest evil guy.
Vader was definitely the biggest, baddest evil guy in the OT.
He was the Golem and the Emperor the Rabbi.

Top fucking kek

but who was phone?

It works when you realise that Kylo is the true protagonist of the sequel trilogy and episode 9 will see him finally overcome Rey, only to refuse to kill her.

Rey, you brainlet

The very early drafts of Star Wars and I think the first novelization are fascinating to read. Really interesting stuff like the empire had been rather benevolent and around for thousands of years and had hundreds of emperors with the one during the movies being a puppet controlled by military industrialist and Vader was just some dude in a space suit that wasn’t supposed to have any real importance. A lot of it is pretty obvious what would latter be reworked in the prequels

>Not that guy but there's a concerted "George is was and will always be shit" narrative that's been pushed for twenty years now.
George Lucas was an amazing ideas guy.
But he absolutely NEEDS people to reign him in, because the prequels were shit, and he keeps shitting on the OT.

Yeah and one of those editors was Lucas himself fuckwad. Sure Marcia Lucas has been sadly largely written out of history since the divorce but Lucas was one of the editors. He's just not given that title in the credits.

Yeah, I missed the "both" part.

This would do:

This

After TLJ I have no idea where the fuck they can go. I don't think I care what Disney create anymore.

>Yeah and one of those editors was Lucas himself fuckwad.
Doesn't change what I said.
Lucas didn't undo all the great corrections made by Marcia et al.

I've seen that link before and it really cites some minor as fuck things. It also understands nothing about film making in that time and overhypes Marcia.

Compared to whom? Kasdan with his meme-teir TFA dialogue? Fisher having sex with the cast and crew?

see Nobody likes Lucas anymore, get over it.
He can't help himself from ruining what we did like from him.

>But he absolutely NEEDS people to reign him in
>in a thread of disney star wars which is easily worse than any of lucas
>all the great corrections made by Marcia
>great

>Compared to whom?
what?

Reminder that even ESB, which Lucas only has a story by credit for, is, according to Joe Johnston- "More of a George Lucas picture than an Irvin Kershner picture".
If that's true for even ESB, then the movie that he has writer AND director credit for is DEFINITELY good *because* of him.

Go sniff your own farts some/v/here else, Avellone.

One thing I never got was Marcia. Why her being mentioned? She's not the only editor. Why don't others mention those other editors more?

Who the fuck writes these things?
Actual boomer Disney board members?

lol u tk him 2da bar|?

No worries lol.
>Rey oblirates everyone.
Yup. Unfortunately resurrecting Sheev to have a big bad pretty much confirms us they won't.
And well, there's no way they were making their brand new female face into the heel. You can trash talk GoT all you want, but at least they had the balls to take their feminist poster girl into what made sense. Which is, IMO, the most feminist thing to do. Females should be able to be evil as well.

>As friends. Not as actual counterweights.
Spielburg ghost directed some of rots

Not this shit again.
1.Marcia was one of THREE editors on the movie, not including George, who edited as well after he fired the guy that made the first edit.
2. You can't make a good movie out of bad footage.
3. Marcia didn't help with the directing, yet the directing isn't criticized as much as the PT.
4. Marcia didn't like THX 1138, but Stanley Kubrick did.

See and Stop trying to turn this thread into a Lucas dick-sucking shitfest.

The topic is this: Now stay on it.

Everything about your post is wrong but this in particular, just isn't true.
>increasingly stupid bullshit by independent editors
GEORGE is the one who saw that the edit by the original guy wasn't working. It's BECAUSE of George that the movie is edited with a faster style.

And if you knew anything about George, you'd know that he was considered an excellent editor in his own right by everyone he knew.

see

The editor is always at the mercy of the director.

Watch this video at 45:40, then kill yourself.
youtube.com/watch?v=da8s9m4zEpo

Oh my fucking god, stop sucking Lucas' dick and stay on fucking topic.

see

>Kasdan
Kasdan praise is a side-effect of Lucas hate.

People often tried to discredit Lucas by putting all of his success onto others.

Like one video that claimed TCW was only good because Filoni and the team ignored/hated the Prequels, which as everyone here knows is utter bullshit.

The other big ones are Lucas's first wife, and Lawrence Kasdan, who are often cited as "saving" ANH and ESB, despite not actually contributing nearly as much as everyone thinks.

People often cite Han's dialogue as being one of Kasdan's shining talents, but its common knowledge that Han's best lines were improvised when Harrison actually gave a shit. Including the legendary "I know."

Just look at Han's dialogue in TFA, it was practically meme-tier, and phoned in by Harrison who was just happy to be getting killed off in this one.

How about replying to some earlier posts or learning about some film making

Because she's been written out of the story. The divorce pretty much destroyed Lucas so he just about never mentions her, including in the Empire of Dreams documentary that came with the original trilogy dvd set. The other two editors are interviewed, Marcia gets one sentence mentioning she also edited the movie.

Why? Well, George started building Skywalker ranch while also doing movie after movie (Empire then Raiders then Jedi) and the marriage became quite strained. Then Marcia cheated on George with the guy who made the stained glass ceiling of the Skywalker Ranch's library. Divorce soon followed but imagine building a giant mansion for your family off the back of almost a continual decade of non-stop work only to find yourself alone in said mansion, sitting under a giant mosaic skylight made by the guy who dicked your wife.

this

I too am of the daring yet controversial opinion that Lucas is a doggy doodoo stupid head fuckstick who ruined everything.
Please read the following copypasta about how he's never directed anything good, Marcia is the only reason anybody gives a shit about the franchise, and probably some misinterpreted dialogue about jar jar or darth icky interspersed within.

>at least they had the balls to take their feminist poster girl into what made sense.
What the fuck are you talking about? If will "make sense" in the books. They handeled it horribly in the show.

Stop sucking Lucas' dick.
Lucas is an old fart who lost all sense of perspective decades ago.

Stay on topic.

Cry a river. I'm getting good answers.
So it's not her contributions but for the controversy post-film? Dang. That would explain the focus, she's an easier target for some, but I find it sad the others aren't given as much attention.

>Lucas is a doggy doodoo stupid head fuckstick who ruined everything.
This.

The prequels were dogshit, and his edits of the OT are sacrilegious.

shitters

Lucas is the sole mastermind behind star wars and there is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING you can do to rewrote this universally known fact. Disney is poison. Marcia lucas is a worthless shitter and so is gary kurtz and kasdan.

Who else was there but Lucas?
>Kasdan
Has proven with TFA that his only talent is snappy dialogue, has no storytelling/storymaking skill.
>Kershner
Robocop 2 is pretty "eh".
>Marcia Lucas
Stanley Kubrick liked THX 1138 while she thought it lacked emotion.

Conclusion: Lucas was the reason ESB was good.

>Lucas is the sole mastermind behind star wars
Sure.
He's also the mastermind behind Indiana Jones, one of the most iconic and beloved franchises in the public mind.

BUT he's also the 'mastermind' behind the dogshit prequels and the edits that all but ruined the OT.

It’s a bunch of butthurt fans that try to change history. The guy who was solely responsible for your “beloved” franchise now did CRAP (the prequels).
HOW CAN THIS BE
It must be that there were other people there, hidden, responsible for all the goodness that you remember from when you were twelve.
Meanwhile twelve year olds loved the prequels. It’s really not fucking strange.

Is this a troll post?
Marcia was not a writer, she was only one of three editors on ANH, and George was a noted editor in his own right.

Stop getting paid to shill Lucas.

The conflict is will they fuck or not

ANH had no Kasdan. ANH and RotJ had no Kershner.
The biggest constant in the SW saga has been George.
And Ben Burtt actually had MORE involvement with the PT than with the OT, graduating to Editor as well as sound designer.
Burtt and Lucas combined are better editors than Marcia.

Disney shill on damage control

Found the brainlet that doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

Lemme guess, Marcia "saved" the movie in the editing, and everything in ESB came from Kasdan and Kershner?

Turn your monitor on

What are you doing?
Are you paid to carpet-bomb all Star Wars-related threads until they fall off page 10?

Stay on topic:

>it was le saved in editing meme
You're fucking retarded dude. All they did in editing was cut out scenes and re arrange some seems for pacing purposes because it's more effective at manipulating people's emotions that way (example: not going from a sad part to a happy part back to a sad part)
And they thought Lucas made it too complex with too many things going on that people would be over whelmed. If anything it was dumbed down and the deleted scenes were kino.

Stay on topic:

Lucas revised the script himself, he just had feedback and help with the dialogue you (((mouse)))posting cretin
It was Lucas himself who disliked his original drafts.

>Lucas had consulted his co-writers from American Graffiti (Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz) to sharpen the dialogue, which he felt lacked humour and bounce, and although he rejected most of what they came up with, their new ideas gave Lucas renewed confidence in his work.

Stay on topic:

Disney shills projecting

>BUT he's also the 'mastermind' behind the dogshit prequels and the edits that all but ruined the OT.
>he thinks the special editions did anything but minor shit
>mindlessly repeating muh prequels shit when he had numerous people give input and demand shit like Leeson on prequel sets

Stay on topic:

No, it's not even controversy. Both Lucas's have remained incredibly quiet about it ever since it happened. It's just that her contributions are fairly significant (re-editing the entire death star battle into what it is now, keeping certain moments like the "Good luck" kiss moment in New Hope, adding the epilogue scene with Marion in Raiders plus a ton of other stuff) and she's almost been completely written out of the history of Star Wars. Watch the Empire of Dreams documentary carefully, esp. the ending wherein Lucas briefly touches on the divorce and it's clear that it really fucked his head and is probably a big reason why Lucas has seemed a bit 'off' since the mid 80s.

Weren’t there numerous people giving inputs and edits? I remember Dooku’s death for example was changed because Christopher Lee didn’t want Dooku to beg

Stay on topic:

Sweaty are ok?

I will be if you stay on topic:

>prequels
Lucas had better help (Tom Stoppard) with the Episode 3 script than he did in the OT. Kasdan is a talentless hack

>It's just that her contributions are fairly significant

Stay on topic:

Autismal

Lucas did nothing wrong , the prequels are fine movies

Can you please not be so obviously biased?
1. Lucas was not around to oversee the first edit and fired the guy who made it
2. Lucas is a noted editor in his own right and worked with the THREE editors he hired, as he was the director of the project
3. As much as Marciaheads try to attack them from every angle, the Anchorhead scenes are comfy as hell and also expand on how the Empire operates.

Stay on topic:

Why? The new movies suck but most people know that by now. Plus there is no conflict, OP's pretty much right which makes it harder to reply to (obvious bait and being an intentional arse are almost always the more popular threads). I'm just way more interested in what happened to Lucas's pyche to go from releasing American Graffiti, Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark to watching the final cut of The Phantom Menace and thinking, 'Yeah, this is fine.'

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>Why?
Because it's the topic of this thread:

Kek.

>'m just way more interested in what happened to Lucas's pyche to go from releasing American Graffiti, Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark to watching the final cut of The Phantom Menace and thinking, 'Yeah, this is fine.'
It's what happens to anyone when genuine pushback disappears.

Lucas is an excellent editor though, an he's noted for it.
read I trust you know who John Milius is.

The cross cutting of Padme's death and Vader's birth in ROTS was his idea.

Stay on topic:

RotS had more help SOLELY because another director directed large chunks of it (Spielberg), unlike ANH where Lucas objectively directed the whole thing.

>Literally when is this ever implied?

When he burned down motherfucking Luke Skywalker's jedi temple and converted or killed all his apprentices?

>whiny brainlet, who gets BTFO by an untrained girl
Yeah, what a great protagonist.

Are you seriously autistic? Probably a deranged Reylo too. Just let people have a discussion.

>Just let people have a discussion.
Writing entire paragraphs of mindless Lucas shilling is not "a discussion".

>Christopher Lee
>Liam Leeson

I'm not even participating.

I think it wasn't that Lucas was surrounded by yes-men .He and Dave Filoni would critique eachother despite the whole master-protege relationship, and Liam Neeson butted heads with Lucas a lot during the production of TPM. And I'm pretty sure there was some back-and-forth between him, Portman, and Christiansen. I'll need to find it, but originally, when Windu and co originally confronted Palpatine in III, Anakin was already going to be there. Something changed Lucas' minds to show more inner conflict within Anakin before he threw his lot in with Palpatine. But yeah, the Prequel trilogy had a lot of rough edges to them, but they did have soul that comes from someone's unfiltered creativity. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but even when it doesn't, he still tried.

It’s more indicative of Luke being a pedo psycho cult leader that got what he was due

On topic. That guy started talking about muh editing and got so btfo he has to BEG people to go “on topic” haha
pathetic

>He's also the only character with any sort of character arc.
And what is the the character arc?
>Cosplays as Vader in TFA
>Smashes his Vader mask in TLJ because fuck the past and fuck the Sith
>rebuilds his Vader mask in TRoS

I will always blame the EU for this. In Lucas' movies there was no such thing as a Light side. There was only the Force. The dark side was an unnatural tumor that had to be cut out.

In fairness Star Wars was saved in the editing room. On the other hand every fucking movie ever made was saved in the editing room.

>when Windu and co originally confronted Palpatine in III, Anakin was already going to be there. Something changed Lucas' minds to show more inner conflict within Anakin before he threw his lot in with Palpatine.
You mean this?

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>On topic. That guy started talking about muh editing and got so btfo he has to BEG people to go “on topic” haha
I don't think you realize what "started" means.
And slight off-topic discussions are fine, entire diatribes of derailment are not.

Point is people put too much weight in the movies being “different”, that something changed. Lucas didn’t change, people watching the movies did.
All you guys dissing Lucas don’t give a shit about editing, politics or “purity”. It’s just a massive cope.

How do you quantify editing? How do you know what the movie looked like? It’s all hearsay, cherry picked interviews and shaky shit in general. Even if it was true, I wouldn’t trust any info, it’s all tainted.

While true that the EU made up the light side stuff which was never mentioned in PT or OT, they did speak even in ANH about how the Force can guide your movements & prequels added prophecies to it. There does appear to be some sort of will or goal-seeking in the Force.

>Lucas didn’t change, people watching the movies did.
Literally picrel.

Now get back on topic:

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They're legit panicking
Force awakens
>$2 billion
Last Jedi
>1.3 billion and pissed of the fanbase.
This could legit fail to break a billion.

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Well Star Wars's editing was at the time really slick and new. It's really fast-paced for the time and is working more off of story beats rather than the actor's rhythms. It's well praised for a reason and Lucas is, when it comes down to it, not the greatest director (though nowhere near as bad as a lot of people claim). But there's tons of directors like that. Fucking George Romero was a bit of a shit director and way better editor and his horror films are masterpieces.

Okay. On topic : the movies are fundamentally broken, by the EDIT (haha)
The plot, focal characters and agency all changed, making some pretty fucking shit and incomprehensible movies.
They reshot every single sequel extensively and they are sort of frankenstein monsters of editing , dubbing and new scenes.
Examples: finn no longer being the mc in tfa. The whole chase scene and ending sequence being incoherent in tlj, kylo being reminded who his father is by snoke, all the fucking exposition, all the telling-not showing (they have a hyperspace tracker!) (((how does it even look like))) (we have stealth shuttles) (they don’t even have stealth, we are told this fact)

It’s garbage and stillbirth movies.
Can we now talk about some actual interesting things like Lucas and editing?

See, as soon as we went on topic the fucking thread died

The prequels are incredibly popular, and provide endless avenues for discussion.

Force Awakens/TLJ on the other hand, has already caught a bad case of Avatar Syndrome.

Remember when the dark side whole appeal of the sith was power?
LOL nvm, Rey is stronger without any training

This, , I think the switchting was pretty ovbious even through the 8th movie but then nothing happend in the end

>Can we now talk about some actual interesting things like Lucas and editing?
Just make your own thread. I'm not sharing.

I'm pretty confident it'll still break a billion even if the movie itself sucks ass (which it probably will), Revenge of the Sith did better than Attack of the Clones despite the previous 2 movies being fucking awful. I think people who are only mildly interested in the series are more likely to go see the conclusion to a trilogy of numbered movies. I could be wrong and TLJ really was bad enough to turn everyone off Star Wars forever but I don't think so.

Nearly everything about Han's backstory is conveyed through expository dialogue alone.

For example: instead of people standing around talking about how Han has been working as a conman, it would have been about as easy to just show Han conning someone.

Before the big patricide scene, there is almost no visualization of the fact that Kylo is Han's son - just the one quick shot where Han has a pained expression. Their entire relationship is exposition.

As a contrast, Luke's relation to his missing father in A New Hope is clearly-visualized via the Obiwan character, while dialogue about Anakin is employed only for subtext. Note that when you get to Empire, Luke's relation to Obiwan is still clearly-visualized via the blue ghost effect. Whenever Luke talks about Anakin, he's thinking of Obiwan - because he imagines that Anakin was like Obiwan. TFA doesn't have this.

have sex

umm sweetie it's normal for Star Wars to lost almost a billion between two movies

The new trilogy's editing is top-notch.
If you turned off your brain enough, you can actually kind of enjoy the new trilogy because it's so well made with cutting-edge modern tech and know-how, meaning it's really flashy and fast.

It's the actual story and characters that are shit.

the sheer number of things that are never visualized:

-The fact that everyone's searching for Luke.
-That Luke is not only planning to unleash New Jedi, but has the power to do so.
-What is a 'New Jedi'?
-That Snoke is drastically changed his goal from chasing BB8 to just destroying everything.
-The Republic was protecting BB8?
-Etc.

The basic point is that the dialogue is directly at odds with the visual presentation. Not counting the opening crawl, the reveal of Luke at the end is also presented as a major twist. Like "there's this mystery map and everyone wants it - but where does it lead?" So, at the end of the film: "oh shit it's Luke!" But instead, the characters are constantly talking about Luke and the Jedi, in a film where Jedis never appear onscreen.

Again, contrast this with A New Hope, where we are constantly shown what a Jedi is via the Obi Wan character, and his laser sword training scene.

>The basic point is that the dialogue is directly at odds with the visual presentation.
That's all way too deep, the average moviegoer doesn't care at all about any of that.
They want a hot, dumb bimbo for a quick pump and dump, not a wholesame tradwife to build a life with and bear you strong children.

rey is going to become evil (game of thrones ripoff) and the kylo guy will save her from the dark side as he realises his love for her is stronger than his lust for power.

The intense focus on the characters' relationship to you (as, effectively, simulated friends) does a lot to obscure the fact that they don't have actual personalities. Rey's entire character is fundamentally passive - lots of staring incredulously at things, punctuated by weird bursts of automatic violence - while all emphasis is on her deep inner life, her dreams and fantasies and so-on:

Expository Dialogue: A scavenger. You know I can take whatever I want. You're so lonely, so afraid to leave. At night, desperate to sleep, you imagine an ocean. I see it. I see the island. And Han Solo: you feel like he's the father you never had.

Yawn. Actual personality is what remains when you subtract this stuff and focus on what a given character does - and that's where you get Rey just spontaneously beating FN with a metal rod, wallowing in self-pity, beating Kylo with a laser rod and, uh, treating BB paternalistically...?

As a contrast, the OT characters are constantly doing things. Note the scene in A New Hope where Luke deploys a grappling hook out of nowhere and uses it to navigate the Death Star. In Empire, he'll use a similar device to climb up and stab the machine in the gut. That's character development.

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Why are you asking me what his arc is while also including a movie that hasn't even come out in the conversation?

this guy right here. I facepalmed as soon as I heard the mention of the "light" side. The force is like Buddhism, and the darkside was when you became overcome with selfish, angry inclinations. In other words the darkside was the psychic equivlanet of developing a god complex. If anything the series should devote time to who was Palpetine's master, and why was the darkside of the force focused on courting Anakin. I'd devote a whole movie to exploring a Sith Temple, even make it the first Star Wars horror film.

Everything makes sense when you realize the entire Jedi council was under the influence of the dark side during the prequels. Not from without, like they think, but rather within

Yeah, same with the people that pretend that Kasdan was the reason for ESB's success when Lucas was the one who came up with every single relevant plot point.

Seeing a bunch of people bringing up THX 1138, just realised that I haven't seen Yea Forums speak about it much. What do anons think of Lucas' first feature? Misunderstood classic, or style over substance art student film?

JJ and Rian for writing terrible scripts, and KK for approving the scripts.

When they'll fuck. Because obviously can't be about her beating him when that has happened in the last two movies.

Yes although when Kasdan read Lucas's draft he reportedly thought it was a joke because the dialogue was so shit. It's always been Lucas's Achilles heel. Still Lucas is the guy responsible for every single plot point and set-piece in Empire.

Based

And the prequels were great

Even Disney realized their flaws and are bringing back the big bad of Star Wars to kill him off again

The Emperor only worked in the OT because of his attack dog (Vader).
Bringing him back on his own is like making the original Star Trek, but with Spock as the captain and no Kirk-alike.

How is it possible for these people to miss the fucking point by this much?

His dialogue is old fashioned and not the most flashy. Anakin in particular reminds me of James dean movies.
I think it has worth anyway. It’s its own thing

I went to Ryan Johnsons' new restaurant. Ordered a steak and received a Thai Curry instead. 5/5. Subverted my expectations.

Haha, touche.

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>why are they so afraid of making badass villains these days?
Takes too much writing effort to defeat them. Much easier to write a lame villain that's easily defeated with no buildup.

My friend, you can't just go around making female leads look weak, especially to a white man. There are laws against that type of thing.

>Has proven with TFA that his only talent is snappy dialogue, has no storytelling/storymaking skill
TFa had a radically different plot at first and buttnose Abrahams altered the script. Jakku was a junk yard planet skykiller base was a late addition hence why it comes out of no where with no build up.

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I want Kreia to lecture me while we fuck

>So where's the conflict?
you clearly don't watch the movies, zoomer. you wouldn't need to ask

Use arguments to prove your point, or have you forgotten how to?

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Just because people are fighting doesn't mean there's "conflict" in any real narrative sense.

what panic, retard? as long as you gross double the budget, there's no problem. breaking a billion doesn't determine failure in any way. ir's more like a superficial pat on the back for a studio.

>"Just because people are fighting doesn't mean there's "conflict" in any real narrative sense."
>resistance lost, still on the run
>rey still hasn't found her parents
>kylo still alive and pissed
>palpatine being brought back
>rey has no more crutches to help her get stronger besides muh girl power
"no conflict." maybe, if you're a child who only pays attention when pretty colors and flashy flashy is on screen. that's the only real excuse i can think of as to why you wouldn't be able to pick up on this shit, aside from just not watching thew movies at all

the movies*

????????????
what do you mean by this?

Some questions:
Why are kylo and rey enemies?
Why is the first order/resistance fight important, since the last movie ended with the galaxy shrugging when they heard leia’s pleading?
Why does the Jedi order matter?

The OT had all of that, PLUS a strong central conflict.
Shoo shoo, shill.

Link?

>rey has no more crutches to help her get stronger besides muh girl power

Literally when was this ever not the case? What are you even talking about?

the struggle of a strong, brave, powerful, independent woman having to proof herself in this sexist, patriarchal galaxy is all the conflict one needs you incel!

Everyone already loves her and she has
Unlimited Power.
SHe is also immune to the dark side and so on and so forth.

hehe

>maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf
I think it's pretty undeniable proof that Lucas was the man, at least in the late 70s/early 80s.

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I have no idea what any of these characters want at this point. Like, what is the greater conflict that they are all part of?

>mfw JJ uses time travel to double tap Star Wars and then has Rey stay in the past and becomes Anakins mother

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Finn's THICC

>I have no idea what any of these characters want at this point.
They're trying to come up with that for the next film.

yayayaya

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>So where's the fucking conflict?

the point is getting them to work together, not against each other. you'll see. that's basically the conflict, their figuring out that they should work together.

>their figuring out that they should work together
Work together for what? Against whom?
To defeat the "first order"? Weakest motivation ever.

no to defeat palaptine.

Palpatine only worked as a puppetmaster in the OT, making him the focal point is retarded.

Adam Driver's character is as poorly written as Rey. He wants to subjugate the Galaxy for...reasons...and the only real reason he has is "Luke was mean to me once." Once broken from Snoke's control he should've gone from reluctant villain to hero pretty fast, but instead he just turned more evil for no reason.

but he is the puppet master in the whole trilogy. and working together doesn't mean only against whom. it's really about integration and changing the face of force users, going back to basics before the jedi/sith split.

the only reason is that they had one more movie so they had to stretch things.

>but he is the puppet master in the whole trilogy.
The OT, yes.
Not this new trilogy.

>and working together doesn't mean only against whom.
>it's really about integration and changing the face of force users
Without a purpose, a goal, an effective antagonist, ... "working together" is meaningless.

he is in this trilogy too. it's just that they will explain it retroactively. not saying that isn't clumsy as fuck but that's how they are doing it. they began in media res and then moved towards explaining what we haven't seen as opposed to linear narrative where you see events. think prequels. they show anakin's fall while sequels keep ben's fall a mystery. we only know he fell but not all the how's and why's. tlj revealed a little bit with rashomon flashback but there's more to that.

>he is in this trilogy too. it's just that they will explain it retroactively.
Exactly. He wasn't in this new trilogy AT ALL.
They're just shoehorning him into the third film.

And again, not only is it retarded to rehash an old nemesis from the OT, but using the Emperor without Vader is just retarded.
And if they do end up using Vader again, it's just plain lazy using the original antagonists from the OT.

exactly, all is retroactive.