>She said that, in this film, the lightsaber fights were easier to film, and that they were lighter and faster. The reason for this, she explains, is that the props they were using were themselves lighter.
>“It was more like broadsword fighting, which isn’t technically what it’s supposed to be, because lightsabers are supposed to be light by nature,” she explains. “So they actually made them lighter for us. We in this film actually have perhaps one of the most epic fights in Star Wars.”
can't wait for kylo w/ jetpack vs rey on bb-8 w/ rockets
Connor Sullivan
Does this movie have a single good thing going for it?
Zachary Hall
In their final fight they break time and space and shit and it ends with a new timeline where Kylo didn't kill his dad and Rey and Kylo are together.
Justin Murphy
>JJ btfos his own self Okay
Alexander Scott
>We in this film actually have perhaps one of the most epic fights in Star Wars I was always disappointed that Luke and Darth Vader never fought on the surface of the Death Star, but it looks like Episode 9 is going to come bretty close!!!
Why do people pretend the geriatric old man fight between ben and vader is any good at all? Why wouldnt you want interesting choreography? Cant wait for the inevitable reply about how jedis are supposed to be methodical samurai or something (yet you praise games like jedi academy and kotor which embrace the spinning, wide poses, and frequent attacks)
New thing bad i guess
Caleb Young
Hopefully they fuck each other and hopefully they are related
Henry Richardson
>actually well choreographed light-saber fight >actual sex scene >actual good writing
>It was more like broadsword fighting, which isn’t technically what it’s supposed to be holy fucking shit when Lucas was directing the actors in the original movies he told them to pretend that the lightsabers are heavy and to wield them in both hands as much as possible he literally wanted them to be just like medieval broadswords daisy ridley should khs
Xavier Nelson
these two characters have had like 20 minutes of interaction over the course of 2 films, how is anyone going to care about this fight.
Elijah Collins
JJ has already shown he knows how to make a good lightsaber fight, so I wouldn't be worried about that.
Jason Russell
good exciting choreography as if the fighters are actually able to use the force to enhance their fighting is BAD, as we all know. Ben Kenobi vs Vader will never be topped.
William Green
You're retarded. Ben Kenobi vs Vader was topped by both Luke vs Vader duels and Kylo vs Finn/Rey. It's just the prequels that are god awful and have literally no weight behind any of the swings.
Bentley Hughes
Clearly he changed his mind, since he directed the prequels
Kevin Richardson
How can a LIGHTsaber be heavy? This is the dumbest thing of OT ever. Its fucking LIGHT. It can't be HEAVY.
Isaac Kelly
You absolute fucking moron, do you think the saber blades are made from light? Do you know what light is? Kys and never reply to me again.
Landon Price
The lightsaber fight between Rey and Kylo at the end of TFA was one of the best in the entire film franchise. Change my mind.
Colton Lopez
Some might say that they were LIGHT sabers.
John Reed
It was on par with the best (Luke vs Vader), but not better.
you could literally see rey's lightsaber bounce off the ground because of it being a prop sword, instead of them fixing it with cg to slightly cut into the ground as it had been doing earlier in the film.
Luke Garcia
>You will not stop me, Mary Sue will become more powerful than either of us >Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced, may be, as is your faith in the feminist side of the Hollywood
but it does 'look' heavy throughout the OT, as intended
Easton Baker
I don't know much about Star Wars since I live in a balkan shithole but >red sword black robed dude vs blue sword white dude Isn't this the same in every single movie? How do people not get tired of this?
Carson Thompson
>because lightsabers are supposed to be light by nature no...no just no, never. They're supposed to create gyroscopic forces that make them heavy as fuck....WHAT THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING?!
Ryan Ward
>Cant wait for the inevitable reply about how jedis are supposed to be methodical samurai The OT fights are absolutely not that. They're cases of inexperienced people with sometimes fragile props hitting each other's props and not the person. The problem with people saying this is that real kendo or HEMA is nothing alike OT fighting. It's the kind of thing the west wouldn't get wrong if kendo or fencing was as popular as soccer or baseball.
Isaac Parker
did it really? I just rewatched it and didn't notice that
James Brooks
it happens right near the end when she poses after striking kylo down
>They're suppsed to create gryscopic forces that make them heavy as fuck
[pseud noises intensify]
i'm sorry, who owns star wars again? wasn't it disney and not... you? AHAHAHHAA they can make up whatever they want for it. calm down and have sex
Michael Williams
What? Force Awakens has some of the worst fighting in the series, it's laughably bad. Finn is entirely and utterly outclassed by Kylo, who should have just killed him when he bested him in the first few hits, but lets the kid get up and score a hit. He promptly swings and leaves him on the ground, and then.. Then what plays out is some of the worst shit I've ever seen. Kylo CLEARLY bests Rey, worse then Finn, since the actress couldn't portray a fighting retreat at all and her saber gets dangled around by his even as he's instructed to uselessly swing several times for no reason.
He gets her to a cliffside, randomly shouts "I can teach you!" For no reason [totally wanted a girlfriend, poor guy] and then suddenly she gets 'good'. But not really, she bats him back and gets a hit on his robes, which I assume the screenwriters meant legs but that isn't represented, and gives him a poke on his shoulder as he takes another terrible swing that would never land and was too slow to recover back from. She goes for an overhead, and then instantly kicks him after he deflects, which.. Sends him on the floor? A grown man? This doesn't matter apparently as she stares him down with a crude face and he goes for his final arching swing, which she blocks in a really strange way, it's such a fast movement and the camera blocks the action, but Rey goes over and uses her free left hand to grab his pommel after he swung and she blocked, allowing her lightsaber for another thrust. Kylo catches her own hand, but.. She.. She juts his sword into the snow? And frees her hand from his grip as he's retardedly focused on freeing his lightsaber, and then downs him?
Why the fuck didn't he just, I don't know, tackle the bitch while they were like that? Or wrestle her hand free from his saber with the pommel-sabers as leverage? He must have a stronger grip with his dominant right hand then with her freaking left. All around a shit fight for a shit movie. The Last Jedi was even worse.
Gabriel Taylor
>d-d-do I fit in now, misters? I voted Trump too (not really but I would have hehehe)! Sneed Sneed! How much I hate you and your kind.
Jordan Ross
I'm literally only watching it to see a sweaty and dirty Daisy tbqh
just watching it, the tip was out of frame and they did shoot up some steam...unless you can post a screenshot, you're getting worked up over nothing.
Levi Green
I don't think thats the sword bouncing back from the ground, that's just her hand flexing and bringing the saber back to cool pose after slashing motion. There also is an effect of evaporating snow.
Adam Campbell
What?
Ryder Butler
That makes no sense. In ANH, Luke's untrained farmboy hands manage to swing Anakin's lightsaber easily.
It looked good though. It looked like the swings had weight, they both were pissed and trying hard to fuck the other one up. It didn't look like overly choreographed Matrix Revolutions fight, but also wasn't as slow and awkward as some of the OT fights.
Andrew Wright
Makes me pine for a new KOTOR.
Ayden Hernandez
the gold standard is luke vs. vader in ESB. try to find a flaw in that.
Luis Morales
Personally, I found it to be one of the worst by the number of things that make no sense. Kylo's supposed to be injured yet he spends so much of the fight never clutching his chest but doing all these spins and wide movements. If he was injured, wouldn't these movements be hindered or hard to pull off? I also don't get the absence of force powers in the fight, besides Rey getting pushed into a tree and suffering no concussion besides being out for a few minutes. In OT, most lightsaber duels had some degree of force usage. In ESB, Vader used the force to activate the carbonite chamber, which Luke force jumped out of. Then in another part, Vader chucked lots of nearby items at Luke with the force. In RotJ, Luke did a force jump backflip and Vader did a spinning lightsaber throw. Even in the prequels, they did. Maul uses the force a few times, including force pushing Obi-wan. Dooku uses lightning. There was a point in Yoda vs Palpatine where Palpatine gave up on lightsaber usage and did nothing but force powers. So why's nobody using any here when even ESB Luke can?
Samuel Diaz
>It looked like the swings had weight Not that guy but there was no weight in the blind way they swung their baseball bats. It looked exaggerated, pointless and you might as well had Michael Bay explosions every time.
28 sec more epic than every star wars film combined
Robert Nguyen
(X) Doubt
Adam Cook
A moment of clarity on Yea Forums? wtf is going on!?
Ryan Lopez
I could almost finish TLJ but 2,5 hours is a bit much when the writers can't into pacing or characters.
Kayden Wright
It looked like pointlessly choreographed schlock that doesn't know what style it wants to be. Just about all movie fights have lots of choreography for the sake of looking good and actor safety but here it looks terrible. Is it trying a "realistic" style? Is it trying fantasy? It hits the uncanny valley when you have Rey driving Kylo Ren's lightsaber into the snow which looks alright as a cinematic shot but not only does it imply her weak hand is stronger than Kylo Ren's dominant hand, but why not kick the guy or some other move? If they went fully fantastical. not performing pragmatic moves fits but this uncanny valley makes scenes stuff that makes sense in one style don't make sense in another.
John Parker
old bags can't fights so don't show it on tv.
Ryder Walker
maybe they’ll have the emo guy finally beat the Mary Sue
Zachary Reed
You're reading too much into it.
Jaxon Clark
I'll never understand why they chose to film on ice.
Levi Morris
There's fuck all choreography in the sequels. They flat out barely bothered practicing fights.
Ask the stuntmen from the fight in the throne room. The legit reason why they dance around and look retarded as fuck is because Adam and Daisy are so incredibly slow and uncoordinated that they have to wait for them to essentially give them a cue before they can do anything.
Jayden Ross
>2 billion dollar budget >2 dimensional universe >comically incompetent empire >6 main characters >no focus >no climax >poorly timed comic relief right after serious scenes Am I missing something?
It's what happens when fight scenes don't know what style they want. The Matrix had a style in their virtual reality world and a different one outside. When Neo and Trinity fought Smith-Bane in the last film, the fight had none of the stunts or typical Matrix style and it made perfect sense because they're not in the Matrix during that fight. They know their usual style and knew to change styles when it made perfect sense. I don't think TFA knows what style it wants at any point.
Hudson Ward
he's talking about TFA, not Rian's huge steaming dump
Fine, fine! Jesus, there's no need to hammer it home.
Alexander Watson
The OT fights were good because they actually swung at each other. You know, like you would do if you were actually trying to hurt / maim / kill the other guy.
The other two trilogies they swing at each other's swords, which you may not realize will cause no damage to your opponent. So it's faster and more flashy, but ultimately dumb because it's a dance routine with light up batons instead of a fight.
>reshoots are happening, apparently >as is with ALL FUCKING MOVIES
Ryan Cooper
Satele and Malgus were both jobbers so quick
Julian Allen
The light saber is the least likely weapon ever to be adopted by anyone. It's simply too impractical.
Ryder Anderson
Has the girl had her blood?
Noah Walker
Yeah but this is how the Asians did it. And we all know that Asian swords and sword-fighting were far superior to that clumsy western warfare shit. That's why a bunch of drunk Portuguese sailors were able to kick the shit out of "elite" Japanese warriors.
Yeah but fuck the weebs who try and act like Asians are the masters of warfare.
Adrian Phillips
They had lots of unrealistic choreography and were mainly carried by emotions and plot. There’s no weight to any of it without the plot surrounding it. Without the plot making most of the impact, they have about as much punch as EPVI’s force kick.
Hudson Rogers
taken out of jedi context
Nathan Evans
they lost ww2
Isaac Cooper
Found the zoomer.
Also it wasn't just because they actually swung *at* each other instead of at each others swords, it was because the fights actually had some passion and feeling behind them.
>they have about as much punch as EPVI’s force kick. I get that this is clever but who'S EPVI?
Ian Davis
I legitimately do not recall a single thing about TFA lightsaber fighting. It was so completely unmemorable.
Dominic Wood
>provides gif that proves him wrong >"z-zoomer" Pathetic.
Blake Myers
Y’know how military dudes will criticize the terrible ‘unrealistic’ gunfights of Star Wars? Well the sword fights are just as bad. Look back at that iconic Vader vs Obi Wan fight and consider >Alec Guinness is an aging stage actor with no fight choreography experience >The Vader actor also has no experience in fight scenes, he was chosen simply because he was a 6 5 bodybuilder who also broke the prop because of his lack of coordination >The shots are short, followed by quick cuts to try and hide the inexperience of everyone involved >Obi Wan is twirling in place in a very shoddy, failed emulation of the kind of action one might see in a 70’s wuxia film with trained actors who have years and decades of fight scene experience. I’m pretty sure that twirling scene is the main reason Guinness was so vocal on hating on the Star Wars series and purposefully making children who think he’s Obi Wan cry… >Bob Anderson was brought on to choreograph the next two films and even do Vader’s stunts, but everyone else was still inexperienced. Compared to his works with Errol Flynn and Princess Bride…
Compare with a movie made a decade earlier on a comparitively modest budget without flashy effects but plain steel swords like Zatoichi: youtube.com/watch?v=_Hvc1Ae-YCU
There are actually shots that stay on the actors for more than a few seconds, the actors are actually moving around and reacting to each other’s attacks and parries in a sensible manner. When the titular Zatoichi does a full body turn it logically fits in the flow of the fight as a way to go from a parry right into an attack of his own, all in one extended shot without any quick cuts to hide actor mistakes. Yes it is a fantastic portrayal of a blind swordsmen and no it is not 100% realistic, but this fantasy has a very firm base in reality. It also helps that Zatoichi was made for a Japanese audience where sword (and polearm) sports are very common and accessible.
Brody Perez
>Just replace plot and character depth with more CGI bots and spaceships the size of montana
Justin Russell
>it was because the fights actually had some passion and feeling behind them. The OT is like how a toddler would think sword fighting works. At least in the prequels they made an attempt to emulate normal human reflex and motor function. They had no passion in its choreography.
Brandon Wilson
Rey picked up a lightsaber for the first time and took down a fully trained Kylo while the whole audience screamed "yass queen slayyy."
Judging the fight itself, it was actually way better than anything in the prequals. The sabers had way more weight to them and when they swung at each other it actually seemed like they wanted to hurt each other. Disney also got way too excited about the color bleed to the surrounding environment off the blade; they acted like it was just the most clever shit that had ever been done.
Charles Wright
They're both unrealistic. In the OT there's still plenty of the "aiming for each other's sword instead of for each other's bodies" type of thing that's typical of Flynning going on. People just mistake the less sophisticated fights in the OT for more realistic because of them looking less sophisticated.
I'm not claiming they weren't over the top, but I don't think they were just choreographed by some fanciful neckbeard who didn't know anything about sword fighting and just wanted them to look "cool". I can't remember where I saw it, but I've seen an interview with a fight choreographer from the PT and he came from some kind of weapons based martial arts background. He would probably have know just as well as Anderson how unrealistic the fights he was designing were. They're just more over the top, not really less realistic.
Camden Perry
>that artificial lightning to clearly show the actors That Kurosawa influence.
Julian Ortiz
Isn't he swinging at his head though? If he didn't bring up his sword for the block he would have lost a chunk of helmet.
Kayden Campbell
where exactly has he shown that?
Nolan Rivera
You can also argue this for the OT. The duels look slow, clunky and very unrealistic. Real sword fights are incredibly fast and over in seconds. Hollywood movies never get this right. That Totally Phantom menace video points this out but retards think it's about the prequels not movies in general.
I swear these people are children thinking OT fights were good because "realism". No one ever thought that. People liked duels because they were glowing laser swords in 70s Sci fi. As big as Star Wars is in Japan, do you think they, who do Kendo like the US does Baseball, were praising it for passion?
Ryan Collins
Just change the weight and feel of key props in the third movie lmao.
The Falcon is double the size now, why not? Force lightning is suddenly yellow. Everything moves like on the moon.
I mean why not? Fuck consistency.
Elijah Diaz
it was trash. fuck off
Luke Butler
Light sabers just look redic and no one would ever use a weapon like that.
Juan Scott
>Isn't he swinging at his head though? He swung at the other guy's lightsaber & the other guy was mostly offscreen anyway so no danger to him
Benjamin Hall
>The OT is like how a toddler would think sword fighting works. The prequels is like how weebs think sword fighting works. In reality look at a movie like The Duelists to see what a real sword fight looks like. In reality both sides are much more concerned with not getting killed then trying to pirouette while back-flipping into a somersault thrust.
>Everything moves like on the moon. the race cattle on the casino planet are a prime example of this.
Wyatt Rogers
>The sabers had way more weight to them and when they swung at each other it actually seemed like they wanted to hurt each other. What planet are you on? Do you have any idea what hitting the other person looks like? All those scenes have moments where any half-trained fighter could make a kill-strike but doesn't. It looks like a movie.
Noah Russell
>The style may have looked to Lucas like a hyperspace rendition of the original trilogy’s fights, but Gillard says he didn’t actually base the prequels’ lightsaber style on them. Indeed, he ignored them almost entirely. Those old fights had been largely based on fencing, and though Gillard had enjoyed them as a younger man, he felt that they were somewhat stale as of the late 1990s. “The world had moved on since then, and that wasn’t going to work,” he says. “I just abandoned it and went my own way with it.”
>Gillard and his staff created a synthesized method of swordplay that was entirely their own. It was “an amalgamation of all sword fighting,” as he puts it, that drew heavily from kendo, but also dipped into an array of other styles of movement, including rapier, samurai, and even tennis and tree-chopping. He wanted it all to be extremely fast, so it could be realistic — or as realistic as a lightsaber fight can be. “I thought, Okay, if they’re going to use swords against laser guns, they’re going to have to be very, very fast with them. This thing’s going to have to move all around, otherwise it’s going to start to look really stupid and unbelievable,” he says.
James Roberts
Not this week, that was last week. Stay tuned for next weeks change of heart
Jeremiah Anderson
>sword fighting Neither of them particularly resembled real combat, and neither of them particularly resembled what seems reasonable for lightsaber combat, either. PT lightsaber combat would probably resemble modern sport fencing (very light sword, kills at slightest touch). OT lightsaber combat would probably resemble old movies about king Arthur where their sword props weighed 15 pounds with huge thick edges to prevent damaged props from their unrealistic choreography.
Aaron Davis
But you watched it and you'll watch the next installment of the franchise as well.
Kevin Rogers
>Strawman Nobody was talking about realism. We were talking about what looked better for a movie. The OT fights at least look like two people fighting and have well established motives behind the fights. The prequels are a fucking ballet dance.
Sword fights in every movie that's ever been made are choreographed dances, not an actual fight between two guys who want to incapacitate or kill each other. I just think it's silly to say the PT lightsaber fights are unrealistic, when the OT's are equally as bad in this regard.
John Brown
tl;dr?
Ryder Rodriguez
it would be the only possible way to redeem the trilogy but they wont do it
Are you confusing TLJ with TFA? I remember TLJ having a lot of autism like that. I never really examined TFA because I've only ever watched that turd once so you may be right. It felt more visceral upon initial viewing than the prequel fights regardless.
James Myers
In reality, swordfights would be too dirty for a movie. Dirty tricks everywhere, kicks, even spitting if it gives an advantage. Nothing like a ring with rules.
Camden White
For what it was, the fight in TFA was satisfactory. An untrained girl discovering her potential in a rage versus an injured savant, following a fight where the villain toys with an untrained soldier lacking in skill. My problem with the fight comes down to story shit, but the fight itself was fine.
Having said that, it wouldn't rank top 5 of the franchise for me. And I find it weird that they're now copying the prequel approach. I guess throw enough shit at the wall and hope that some of it sticks.
Isaac Walker
As I responded in , he was the one who wanted to call the prequel fights ""realistic." I said no such thing about the OT and was just judging them on how good they were for the movies themselves.
Luis Wood
>The OT fights at least look like two people fighting Real fights tend to be over in under half the time any ot fight took place. It don't look anything like a real fight
Luis Mitchell
What matters is that it looks good, you autistic nerds.
Benjamin Cooper
Yes, it would look horrible and most of the movie going audience would get bored.
Cooper Brown
>The OT fights at least look like two people fighting and have well established motives behind the fights. The only OT fight that isn't hot garbage is the one in TLJ. And even then, they're not realistic. Neither of them is realistic, you don't know what realistic sword-fighting is, shut up.
Landon Mitchell
Just saying, places like Japan who practice swordfighting as a national sport weren't exactly having an orgasm over the OT's fight scenes.
David Watson
I can't take the opinions of anyone who dislikes Anakin v Obi-Wan seriously
Cooper Morgan
That's really subjective. I can say I prefer wuxia for one. >The only OT fight that isn't hot garbage is the one in TLJ. >OT >TLJ Not that guy but did you mean ESB?
Logan Moore
What I mean is that it looks like two people trying to hurt each other rather than two people going through a choreographed group of moves.
Let me link the video to a more realistic looking fight for anyone who might not fucking know. youtube.com/watch?v=JOBTFfHJjV8
Elijah Gutierrez
pirate it then, if you don't you're no better then one of those retards who pays money for e-thot bath water
Elijah Brooks
I'm bored just reading his posts. He's so full of himself. Not like you, I find you informative and witty.
Woah dude. Are you talking about the only lightsaber fight in the movie where the red dudes are taking breaks on the side of the screen waiting to attack? Yeah, but who gives a shit about them?
>uses movie to show "real" sword fight it's a sport today, dude
Kayden Morales
>I can't take the opinions of anyone who dislikes Anakin v Obi-Wan seriously Based and kinopilled youtube.com/watch?v=UOhZ5wD6u7A
Juan Sullivan
Just saying, Japan's a huge influence for Star Wars, and they're a culture who practice swordfighting often. I think their opinions have some degree of weight.
You faggots need to rap your mind around the fact that no movie sword fight is realistic and when I'm saying it is "better" that doesn't mean I'm saying its "more realistic."
Evan Lewis
Truly Shakesperean.
Elijah Williams
>being quick and only a few seconds long I prefer them taking longer, allowing the combatants to show off their skills and enable a certain feeling
they're too puny and dyel to fight hand to hand with euros or burgers
Robert Bennett
>Malgus jobs to a trooper with a simple plasma detonator
Nathaniel Richardson
Same here. I don't want IRL swordfights the same reason I don't want IRL gunfights. I don't think it looks as good.
Carter Wright
Japan has a huge influence on shit wars, namely the prequels and the EU. One of the things that made everything after the OT shit was that George had gotten into Buddhism and started jamming that shit into the movies. Its a fucking movie board. Besides, are you going to show a "sport" where both sides are just playing around and compare it to a fight where someone is going to get seriously hurt/die at the end? People don't act the same in sport fighting, their lives are not on the line.
James Taylor
It had lots of influence on OT. Kurosawa especially.
Angel Harris
don't care what anyone says, light saber fighters need to be drawn out and over the top so long as they have proper drama and stakes underlining them. wish we had anakin choking out more people before he was put in the suit though.
The new placement makes more sense. You'd never hold the saber that low in order to activate it.
Ethan James
will general hux be in the rise of skywlker?
Isaac Sullivan
Yeah, but after the first fight they moved away from it. They only used it because it was a style of sword fighting that didn't involved a shield and that they could get an old fuck and a man in a stupidly complicated suit to pull off. It wasn't because Japanese culture was a major influence in the film at that point.
Then how can Grievous (or any other character wielding a light saber that's not their own) activate it?
Aaron Hill
ugh
Thomas Bailey
All that shit didn't come in until the prequels. In the OT the force was 100% a vague new-agey spiritual power that was intended to appeal to everyone.
Reminder that in the OT George insisted that the actors keep two hands on the lightsabers at all times because they were supposed to be "heavy." That is why the props for the new movies were heavy: they were returning to the OT's philosophy of lightsaber fighting. Making the sabers lighter means they are moving back to prequel shit. That was OP's point and everyone seems to be missing int.
Isaiah Long
I still like the final battle in TPM the best.
Jaxon Anderson
It did. The Jedi were based on Ronin and all their lessons even in OT were all about letting go of the physical world and all that. It was very based in Buddhism even before PT.
Jaxson Torres
>for a more civilised age >sears your flesh and mutilates you, at best >kills you horribly otherwise Yeah.
One of the main reasons that I enjoy the OT so much more is because it isn't infected by all that weeb crap that infected the prequals and everything that came after it. The SW nerds are the ones who get all caught up in it and the different shit styles of saber fighting >oh did u kno dat mace windu was a form seben user and invented his own form an dat was y he was a powurful Jedai. Its peak cringe and I just wanna enjoy the OT because it is comfy.
Josiah Hughes
First, with regard to Buddhism: the obvious Taoist equivalent to a Force Ghost would be Xian, enlightened practitioners of Taoism who are either spiritually or physically immortal, and who often exhibit superhuman traits like flying. But I would argue that the Force Ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan act more like Boddhisatvas, and that their actions incorporate an aspect of Buddhism into the series to complement the Taoism. Boddhisatvas are Buddhists who, rather than achieving full Buddha-hood, dedicate themselves to the enlightenment of all beings—for example, the Boddhisatva Kṣitigarbha was said to have vowed to help less-enlightened human until all of them could achieve Nirvana, saying, “If I do not go to the hell to help the suffering beings there, who else will go? … if the hells are not empty I will not become a Buddha. Only when all living beings have been saved, will I attain Bodhi.” Yoda and Obi-Wan both seem to keep coming back from their Force One-ness to guide Luke on his journey, presumably so he can help all the beings suffering under the Empire. (They both learned this trick from Qui-Gon Jin, which, nice name, George.) When we do see Anakin’s Force Ghost in ROTJ, he’s appearing to give Luke peace of mind, so the young Jedi can move on with his life and pass on his teachings as Yoda instructed. While this isn’t an exact analogue, Yoda and Obi-Wan only seem to come back for the greater good of the universe, and their actions after physical death are purely spiritual, with none of the superhuman tricks that Xian sometimes perform.
Samuel Lopez
Why don't force-users create air bubbles inside the veins of their enemies?
Nicholas King
>The Jedi were based on Ronin.. Let me know where the fuck you heard that shit in the movies nigga.
Idk, maybe the force ghost was just like...a ghost? We have those too in our puny western myths.
Nicholas Williams
this. and it's got the best line of the series, to boot. >the force is with you, young Skywalker. but you are not a jedi yet.
Carson Carter
Peak cringe. Also let me stop you right there. Who the fuck is the Qui-Gon Jin guy you are talkign about? I didn't hear about him in any of the Star Wars movies.
>All that shit didn't come in until the prequels. In the OT the force was 100% a vague new-agey spiritual power that was intended to appeal to everyone. I hear that all the time being mentioned as if it was a good thing. In the end this only made the Emperor look like a complete and utter senile push-over. I mean tell me. What does make the Emperor so powerful and scary when his only feats have been "he is totally strong enough to make even Vader fear him" (told instead of shown), lightning fingers, and "It's a trap!"? Aside from these three things he seems like a senile old man who just fires his lightning upwards like a retard when being picked up. Honestly, just based on the OT you can't help but be confused how such a jobber even got an Empire together that runs mostly based on fear. The PT at least showed that the Emperor is qualified to call himself an "Emperor of an intergalactical Empire".
Lucas Lopez
ROTJ is the worst of the OT to begin with. However, I see no problem with what you are saying. It is clear that the Emperor is powerful. Vader fears him. He is able to manipulate a father and his child to try and kill one another. He doesn't need a weapon like Luke and Vader. And when it is time and he sees Luke isn't going to join him he is able to start torturing Luke with his bare hands to the point where Luke is screaming for it to be over. The only reason they even stop the Emperor is because Vader betrays him at a time when the Emperor was not expecting it.
I know you like this Japanese shit, but jamming it into Star Wars where it doesn't belong doesn't make it a better movie. It just makes you like it more because you happen to like the Japanese shit to begin with (just like George did when he came back to the series for the prequels).
Noah Davis
>so much more is because it isn't infected by all that weeb crap
They're a disconnected bunch of wandering has-beens who used to be large authorities but the new government has kicked them out. Just like the samurai after the meiji restoration.
Connor Watson
>Both of these films have two people standing in a desert so they must be related. There must be something I'm missing.
This. A major point of the PT is to show the Jedi are massive hypocrites. They'll claim neutrality while functioning as a chancellor's bodyguards and advisors, and claim peaceful intent when they flick lightsabers on anyone for the smallest reason. See again the main inspirations for Jedi: samurai, and later, ronin. Samurai in Japanese culture aren't heroicized or remembered as great men in their time, they were seen as corrupt assholes who did what they wanted while adhering to 100% malleable and changeable moral codes. When Palpatine tells Anakin the Jedi and Sith are alike in almost every way, he isn't lying in the slightest. The Jedi do what they want, when they want, and if you complain, you can either sit your ass down young Skywalker or get a lightsaber up the ass. But they claim they do it because of their code, a code you'll never know about and never agreed to follow, but you better comply, because they've got laser swords and the unshaking belief that a cosmic entity is on their side and no one else's.
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" wasn't meant to be taken at face value, it was meant to be a contradictive fallacy when you watch the Jedi go through all those emotions themselves, Yoda included, while admonishing it.
They were hypocrites and that was the whole point. OT Jedi (and Sith) were Ronin, fallen samurai wandering a world that no longer wanted them. PT Jedi were Samurai in their prime; lording over their realm, detached from the average commoner, mistrusted by many, with a reputation carried on through stories and proverbs, while they themselves teach self-conflicting mantras and morals, questionable codes of honor, and a pervading sense of self-righteousness because that's what tradition says.
It's pottery, as the Prequel Jedi match beat for beat Japan's Samurai caste prior to the civil war in the late 1800s, and match exactly what Samurai became afterward.
Isaac Bell
>*thump* >*squeak* Is there a more orgasmic sound than this?
The two characters from below have a very similar role in the movie they're in (the hidden fortress) as C3PO and R2D2.
Michael Bell
If you had actually watched the Hidden Fortress, you'd know the similiarty with ANh are absolutely ridiculous. There's is a bossy princess, 2 hapless farmers similar to R2D2 and a warrior confronts his former master at the end of the film.
Tyler Young
TPM had a lot of good stuff in it, people like to shit on it because of the kid Anakin and the Goongas, but apart from that it's not a terrible movie. I mean, it's not great, but not as bad as people like to say it is.
See Japanese history. Jedi are basically samurai, even the name Jedi is inspired by irl influences. His comparison to OT Jedi as post Meiji Samurai is pretty apt.
Jace Bell
I don't honestly care if George pulled from a Japanese movie for the script. The Magnificent Seven did the same thing but it is still basically an American Western because in the end it is drawing off of a story instead of spiritual ideas or belief. Stories of heroes are not unique to a culture and that is why you can transplant them so easily. What is a problem is when you start taking Buddhist spiritualism and jamming it into the lore of a franchise where it doesn't belong. That is when you get stuff like "Jedi take babies from parents to be warrior monks" that make people cringe at the prequels.
Jose Jones
>ESB With the sole exception Kenobi vs Vader in ANH, there is no "fight" in the entirety of SW canon which bears even the remotest resemblance to historical swordplay of any kind.
It is very clear from what Lucas and Ralph Mcquarrie have said that Vader's design was intended to be reminiscent of the Samurai. There is also that the fact that ANH is borderline plagiaristic of The Hidden Fortress by Kurosawa. And anyway Knights and Samurai are the exact same fucking thing, Landed gentry trained at arms.
Thomas Martin
>What is a problem is when you start taking Buddhist spiritualism and jamming it into the lore of a franchise where it doesn't belong. >he doesn't like esb I don't blame you. The first star wars is the best one. It's the only one that stands on its own.
Henry Watson
We've always wanted to see Kylo and Rey take out their little lightsabers and go to town (death star surface). They truly will become the Star Wars™
This. People don't understand the way of the samurai or how to properly wield a katana or other bladed weapon. They're too busy obsessing over sports and other dishonorable activities.
Logan Howard
>those bombs Okay, you got me.
Jaxson Gonzalez
>pocket reactor emanating plasma and space hellfire >durr is just a flashlight
Juan Gutierrez
You can explain the Jedi name stuff to me in more detail. The idea of a group of warriors or knights working independently from the government after being dismissed is a common event in history around the world, so saying that is specifically a reference to the Meiji Samurai is without grounds.
This is all off point however. As I said I could give a shit about historical connections or inspirations from things that are Japanese. The major problem I have is the way the prequels started jamming Eastern Spiritualism into the Star Wars franchise. While Star Wars may have taken some inspiration from Japanese movies or history it did not use Buddhism for the force and was very careful not to do so.
Michael Brown
Specifically, Yoda's little platitudes are reminiscent of Zen kōans, which are short sayings used in Zen Buddhism to illustrate hard-to-grasp spiritual truths. >All right, I'll give it a try. >No. Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. >I don't believe it. >That is why you fail. In both instances, Yoda twists Luke's logic around on him to highlight his lack of faith. While this can be frustrating for Luke, it reminds him (and, by extension, us) that the Force can't be comprehended through logical means.
Also, Yoda defines the light side of the Force as being passive and emotionally detached. Although similar concepts can be found in countless religions, we again find the most similarities with Buddhism, as the religion states that all pain is caused by our attachment to people and things—because everything is impermanent, all attachment inevitably leads to pain. Sounds like the whole path to the dark side thing, huh?
While our understanding of the nature of the Force changes over the course of the Star Wars series, its depiction in The Empire Strikes Back is perhaps the most significant, as it set the standard that launched this sci-fi religion into real-life fame.
Dylan Gonzalez
I kind of agree. I can see how some of the Yoda babble may sound eastern to people (although I argue it still stays away from drawing any type of theological ideas into its concept of the force). But the first one is far better than esb imo.
Jordan Rivera
I just posted this is another thread, but may as well post it here too...
Here's what the unaffected 'fans' (lol) and Disney don't understand about how TLJ (and the st in general) ruined Star Wars. It wasn't just that it was a bad film (if all it took to kill Star Wars was a bad film, than Caravan of Courage would have killed it decades ago). It wasn't just that the lore was irrevocably damaged (midichlorians anyone?). It's that this is 'it'. Any Star Wars fans who grew up with the franchise have been waiting literally decades for the sequel to RotJ. That's what kept it so amazing; this great space saga that was still on-going. So to see it continue by having all of our heroes killed off so pathetically so that a literally-who (purposefully written that way by design) could latch onto the story and be the main character is like a kick in the nuts. You can ignore the sequel trilogy all you want. But you can't ignore that you will NEVER get the comfy adventures of Luke, Han and Leia after defeating the empire. We will NEVER see Luke's academy, or see him as the wise old Jedi master (Yea Forums can fuck off right now with their early 00s pixelated shit and knock-off voice actors). And with that, it's hard to even have any excitement, pride or joy in the old films anymore.
Jackson Nguyen
>Why do people pretend the geriatric old man fight between ben and vader is any good at all?
In the OT the context matters more than the actual fight, at least in the first two, ROTJ introduced the pointless choreos.
Dominic Johnson
>What a twist! >IT BROKE NEW GROUND
Ian Williams
According to Yoda in "Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back," the Force is used for good, knowledge, and defense. Jedi do not use it for violence. This sounds a lot like Buddhism, which is a philosophy, not a religion. Buddhists believe in non-violence.
Jedi also meditate to clear their minds of emotions so they do not lean toward the Dark Side. Buddhists meditate to clear their minds, too. Many things happen when meditating, including gaining knowledge, insight, and even physical powers. When Jedi die, those who are worthy become Force ghosts. One of the rebirths in Buddhism is Devas, which are sometimes spirits or even lower gods.
There are many other connections between the Force and Buddhism. This made the Force a philosophy that required training the body and mind by using the mind. It gave the Force a metaphysical feel to it, making it more interesting.
Zachary Thomas
the fact that this escaped the feeble minds of the design team or prop department is incredible. i swear they werent even interested in making star wars, it was just $$$
Benjamin Scott
I'll give it to you. This is part of the reason I don't care for esb as much as other people (although I still think it is great). I think the original movie in its purest form is the best. While I will give some ground I will still argue that in the OT they drew on eastern stuff particularly for Yoda, they still were careful to keep the force vague enough so that it would not be foreign to the west. This is a barrier that was broken down by the prequels and even more so by the shit EU.
Caleb Brown
No. I am saying that we are just "told" how "awesome" the Emeperor is supposed to be. What happend to "show, don't tell"? Why does the OT not have to adhere to this principle? For Vader, regardless of the lackluster presentation of their battle, we at least have seen him fightning equally with Obiwan after Obiwan has shown all his cool tricks on Tatooine. The emperor? "Guys! The Emperor is this totally menacing guy! Trust me!" it felt like we were just supposed to take the "rumors" about the Emperor at face value, but that's rather lackluster for someone supposed to be the "true big bad". All of that could have been fixed simply by having the Emperor perform one single feat that makes the audience witness why he is THE EMPEROR, who makes even Vader look insignificant. It doesn't even have to be battle-related. Some utility feat would have been fine. Show something that really represents the "fear" that's being talked about. "It's a trap!" and lightning fingers only represent cunningness and violence respectively. Merely being told "this guy is stronger" and slapping an ugly face on him with (absolutely excellent) OST alongside just isn't enough to view the Emperor as fear personified. RotJ failed to portray the Emperor as being menacing enough.
To be fair though, while the PT, unlike the OT, showed the Emperor as being powerful and menacing, it didn't succeed at representing him as a personification of fear, or rather didn't even attempt to do so.
Jason Diaz
Star Wars is literally inspired by the works and tales of Kurosawa. You fucking retard
William Bell
It's either from Jidaigeki or from Burrough's Barsoom, where lords bear the title of Jed or Jeddak.
Ian Brooks
It's supposed to be a dramatic moment between two characters who are ending an implied friendship that has spanned decades, not an epic video game cutscene
Jace Fisher
>who are ending >not an encounter years after it ended
Cooper Foster
That still looks pretty similar to the Nihilius vs Atris artwork. But I guess that's probably coincidence.
>that one spic who won't stop posting this anime schlock like it's good how long have you been posting this and when do you plan to stop having shit taste LMAO
Quite frankly I hope SW never returns to this wireful and frantic fury crap. It was magnificent they returned to the slower pace of the first movies and got away from the video game crap.
The fight in Force Awakens remains my favorite, tied with the Vader/Luke fights. You can whine about Mary Sue all you like, but as far as storytelling myth fulfillment, it was flawless. When he goes to pull the lightsaber to him, and it flies by in her hand, my goodness.
Daniel Rogers
>that terrible composite shot >rey not even looking at kylo
Dominic Jones
>We in this film actually have perhaps one of the most epic fights in Star Wars.”
grevious never wielded Lukes/Anakin's Saber. Each jedi builds their own but i really doubt they're fingerprint scanning like fucking ipods. more likely the placement is weird because Anakin would have been a teenager when he built it
Asher Campbell
>the strong female character ends her arc by fucking their universes version of Hitler
What did Disney mean by this?
Ian Fisher
That's a good thing though You incels really want to get outraged by everything right?
Ayden Phillips
OT cocksuckers really are fucking embarrassing. You have to be seriously mentally ill to believe that the fights there are better choreographed. There isn't any fucking choreography, they're waving sticks around like retards. And obviously they're not realistic, a 5 minute search on YouTube could prove this At least the prequel fights were a visual spectacle.
Jordan Morgan
Star Wars is dead in the hearts and minds of modern men - killed by an indifference that was itself directly related to a pronounced cultural shift towards faith in social causes such as feminism.
Nicholas Mitchell
You're talking about the Avengers right?
Leo Edwards
>Lightsabers had weight to them Lightsabers are fucking weightless you imbecile
Wyatt Russell
Anything past the original trilogy is nu-Wars, zoomer.
John Sanders
nu-wars is post-disney shit baka
Christopher Price
kylo's lightsaber is the best thing in all of nu-wars
Blake Bennett
The man has a penis for a nose and I can never unsee it.
>You'd never hold the saber that low in order to activate it. If you love your thumbs, you would.
Evan Moore
Shit man, you only got 10 INT!
Austin Sanders
Yikes. I bet you were the same guy who tried to equate the Trade Federation with Ancient Carthage. PTfags continue to embarrass themselves.
Asher Jackson
>No. I am saying that we are just "told" how "awesome" the Emeperor is supposed to be. What happend to "show, don't tell"? Why does the OT not have to adhere to this principle? The Emperor has a masterplan, can afford to laugh Luke in the face when he springs the trap, can afford to not raise a finger and still emanate menace, has exterminated the Jedi and turned a good man into a murderer, but most importantly: >HE CAN CAST LIGHTNING FROM HIS BARE HANDS! Force Lightning was introduced to illustrate the raw power this hunchbacked, ancient, frail cackling old geezer was literally hiding up his sleeve.
Isaiah Cox
This is why star wars was ALWAYS fucking stupid. Why don't they just use their force powers from the fucking beginning. As if fancy ballet with glowsticks is more efficient than shooting a fucker with lighting and killing him instantly. Or using the force to explode their heart.
Luis Hughes
Nearly all of Kurosawa’s big samurai films took place in the Sengoku period, not the Meiji period. How is using Kurosawa as an influence supposed to mean that Jedi are actually supposed to be the samurai after the Meiji period?
Carson Jenkins
>Or using the force to explode their heart. Because its hard to do that. The implication in the movies is that using the force requires some level of focus and breaking that concentration is bad. It's hard to concentrate when someone is running at you with a fucking lightsaber.
Did he ever used "guard" for anything in those movies?
Lincoln Perry
Unironically, it makes more sense for jedi to be super powered like this than how they are portrayed in the OT and Nu-wars. Why are jedi so important unless they're actually powerful?
Grayson Ramirez
>we're going to make these fight scenes ugly, close up, shaky, and with too many cuts just like they do in films! It's as if they forgot that this wasn't live action
I agree that things like Star Wars are dead, but it seems to me that the problem is, holding people to standards is dead. Feminism is part of this, but a much bigger version is so-called grade inflation (which is equivalent to lowering standards), and grade inflation predates screechy feminism by years. I don't really know where this came from, maybe it's just what happens when you reorient the world around "fuck you I got mine." That is, because narcissists don't want there to be standards, because they might themselves be held to those standards.
Luke Robinson
To be honest TPM is pretty much terrible, and i love the Plinket reviews because they are funny and on Point most of the time. But nobody will ever convince me that the fight with Darth Maul was not awsome. Also Darth Maul in general is not terrible he is basically a silent sith killer.
Carter Harris
>Fully-grown adults arguing about a dying franchise made to sell toys on an anonymous east asian image board for pedophiles
I don't know what's worse: >you want actors to do choreography on the level of literal animation or >you're impressed by flashy ebin video game fight with 0 weight and with characters still doing stupid shit when they have chance to kill their opponent.
Asher Lewis
Never noticed this move, looks super retarded, thanks, I hate it
Levi Gonzalez
hehe I get it
In the prequel they were fighting in lava, but now they are fighting in water
>you're impressed by flashy ebin video game fight with 0 weight and with characters still doing stupid shit when they have chance to kill their opponent.
Most of these traits would be more fitting for a general/tactician of the empire though, not the RULER of the "Empire of Fear". The Empire appears evil, repulsive, intelligent and dangerous. However he doesn't appear scary at all. At most bizzare (escpacially his original TESB look) but he never gave any presence of "fear inducement". The only thing that even remotely succeeded at that was John William's music. None of the other aspects of those scenes gave that impression, unfortunately. Also the lightning's impact was reduced by the fact that Luke disarmed himself. It gives the audience the doubt: "could Luke have blocked the lightning with his lightsaber?" this though alone makes the Emperor's "raw power" a huge damper in terms of impression and might seem more like a cunning trick. Overall the Emperor just felt so damn half-assed in the OT. To be fair, it's probably to a great extent due to only having a 1 minute or so long cameo in TESB and not appearing in ANH at all. I still think the "control by fear" personification of the Empire should have been either strongly expressed within the Emperor, OR replaced by a different idea/concept entirely.
Eli Hall
That one. His spergs are so delicious.
Austin Kelly
Yes. In the rain, too.
Charles James
>Rey is wearing white, so Kylo can see her tiny wet tits >she *accidentally* slips because it's all wet >Kylo catches her and they fall to the ground in a heap >then they start fucking
Their relationship is one of the only things fans are invested in, though.
Austin Young
Star Wars are screenplays, not movies you retards. Nothing you see is really "canon". The swordfights are meant to entertain and tell a story, not be 100% accurate and realistic.
Owen Jones
It was until Rey won. Kylo knows how to move, it's so sexy. Even though he's big, he's fucking fast and graceful at times.
Rey winning will never be a good thing. It was completely unnecessary and did nothing for the story.
Jordan Hall
>reshoots >for nu-wars
why bother? its going to be shit anyway.
Benjamin Collins
It was his side, not his chest. And he's going up against a 100lb girl after shitting on the fat guy, so yeah it's pretty accurate.
Kayden Clark
Every Hollywood film needs to be made at least twice these days, it's the law
Nathan Davis
>It was his side, not his chest.
Elijah Sanders
I'll actually pay to see that. Anything less is unacceptable.
Adam Brown
It was.
Charles Williams
Honestly though, why would they be fighting alone in the rain unless they are going to make out and fuck? It's just cinema 101.
Ayden Morgan
You fucked the frame rate
Zachary Gonzalez
True i suggest nustarwars fags watch a kendo competition to see how it looks when you are actually trying to hit your opponent. Vader vs luke is going for that.
Dominic Smith
Are you retarded? Because this is retarded.
Jason Taylor
what is bad about this move besides the association with anakin's bad line
Easton King
The people who worked on the OT had a really good idea of what "worked" in a film setting. Film is not sword fighting real and arguing over realism and influence is pointless. What matters at the end of the day is making the audience believe and invest in what's happening on screen. Take the trench run scene, it's obviously not realistic, but it's "believable" in the way their radio chatter, organization etc. You as an audience member buy what's happening as a plausible depiction of how a space dog fight would play out.
The reason why movies are increasingly pandering to basedboys, chinsects etc is that these people are so disconnected from reality and the historical roots of media they connect with laughable trash like marvel movies.
John Thomas
I would bet every dollar I had this was changed by the harpy crew because their new feminist girl power fantasy isnt allowed to lose.
Andrew Parker
>what is bad about this move giving up your solid footing to balance on one leg taking your eyes off your enemy moving your weapon away from your enemy turning your back to your enemy
it's fucking disgusting
Carter Smith
So more gay flying around shit? Great.
Carter Moore
Reminds me of Kill Bill
Jackson Murphy
Lightsabers are light by nature. She is 100% right on that. What is the issue? They should be light and quick.
Its not that this isnt good, its that after 2 insufferable hours its just ehh.
Thomas Green
>with characters still doing stupid shit when they have chance to kill their opponent Several fist fights I have been in growing up I have allowed my opponent to get in a hit or two to make it look better. It's called showmanship. Do you not give a shit about the audience at all?
Daniel Young
This looks terrible. This is over choreographed as all hell. I wish Star Wars fanboys would stop doing this and try to make it look believable instead of ridiculous.
This prequels esque bullshit needs to stop.
Also to that doesn't automatically mean it's going to be over choreographed like the prequels. They probably just wanted to make the weapons lighter to show some form of muscle change after the timeskip.
Adam Green
wow, watching laundry tumble in the washing machine is so riveting
Jace Morales
Anyone who says "change my mind" will never change thier mind
Jordan Sanders
user speaks the truth, change my mind.
Asher Nguyen
These guys spend way too much time swatting at each other's swords instead of actually trying to poke each other. Those big sweeping parries will get you killed in a real sword fight.
