Dark S02

>it has time travel so that makes it smart

name one paradox that the writers didnt account for

>dude predestination lmao
>dude nobody can change anything lmao
Fuck this show, I got it the first time there was no need to say it over and over ten times as if it was something special, it's fucking crap.

what is there to understand?

The problem the show is dealing with is that the past can't change without altering the future. Because the future exists the way it is, the past has to have occurred exactly the same way as those from the future experienced it, or else there'd be a paradox. So the show has to come up with ways to justify why the past can't change, why the choices the characters make ultimately lead them to where we know they're headed. The problem is that, in order to do this, it relies on characters not sharing important information for no apparent reason.
For example, Future Jonas (late 40s/50) knows that Mikkel/Michael kills himself because 2020 Jonas travels back to 2019 and tells him that he's going to kill himself. All he has to do to prevent that is tell his younger self not to tell his father anything. If he doesn't want Martha to get shot, he just has to tell her what will happen if she leaves the bunker. Claudia goes from wanting to save her father to murdering him, all because "future me said it's ok".
The point is, once you know the steps that lead to a version of the future, it is easy to change it while you're in the present.

How hilarious was it when Noah forgot safeties on guns exist

lol you didn't get it

That would basically be the pie fight at the End of Dr Strangelove.
>Make it so.

ok then explain it fuckhead

>The point is, once you know the steps that lead to a version of the future, it is easy to change it while you're in the present.
No. The whole series exists in a causal loop. They can't change the future any more than you can change the past. None of the things you propose they could do are possible for them. That's what determinism means. Everything is preordained, "struggling" against the future only causes it to happen.

You average German wouldn't know which side the gun fires from mate. It's not a Burgerland show where everyone gets issued a .38 when they are born.

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Isn't Noah originally from 1921 though? He'd know how guns work.

I did not even realize that was the problem kek. I'm not American so.

I know it's supposed to be a loop, but shouldn't it be possible to change it? If adult Jonas were to tell teen Jonas "Don't confront your father about his identity and suicide, doing it is what causes him to kill himself" would teen Jonas still tell Michael about the letter and the suicide? It's not very plausible.
I guess one has to accept that adult Jonas can't tell teen Jonas that, because if he did it would alter time and change adult Jonas' path, perhaps making it so adult Jonas never tells teen Jonas anything (which would be a paradox). But causing a paradox seems to be desirable from the perspective of adult Jonas who ostensibly is trying to alter the course of events.

kino song 3bh

>he didn't realize there actually were moments when things changed

Based brainlet getting mislead by the show.

Did guns already have safeties back then?

except that didn't happen, retard

It did. Adam constructing a better time machine is the product of a string of events, not a loop.

Look it up. NOW

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this.
Also there are some plots just for the sake of the whole loop-thing which are lacking any kind of depth and logic.

What plots for example?

Are you really this stupid?

Amazing rebuttal. But this is Yea Forums after all. Sneeeeeeed! Amirite, guys?

the police officer who investigates against the chief of the power plant is just ridiculous. He has no reasonable suspicion against him (him taken over the surname of his wife, his wrong height in his passport, once had the name of the officers brother), but still is able to go to the power plant and drill into old radioactive material.

kettle calling pot black

He got a letter from Claudia telling him to investigate the town and Aleksander Tiedemann.

still no reasonable suspicion and far away from a good reason to dig out radioactive material. Besides that, no police officer could ever do that without a good warrant.
one of the worst parts of this is the dialogue between the police officer and aleksander "your 5' 6" I'd bet, maximum. But the document says 5' 8"" *creepy music in background* holy shit as if no ones ever had the wrong height in his passport.

Very insightful. I wonder too what would happen if teenage jonas just went back to 2019 and pretended nothing ever happened, like he got loat in the woods or something, and just went on living his life like normal. Would the apocalypse still happen? Would it matter? Maybe he could convince his mom (or leave her behind because shes a turbo cunt) to go in vacation that weekend out of town. Just small things like that but not really try to alter anything big

Nothing is preordained you christfag they have a fucking time machine

its almost like clausen was sent to the power plant just to create the higgs field in 2020...

What would happen if someone just time travelled and shot Jonas in his face (pre time travel).
Or would it just not happen, kind of how Ulrich couldn't murder a kid and just "left him for dead"?

Imagine getting a letter saying YO DIS FINNA WEIRD TOWN IS WHY YOUR BROTHER IS DEAD AND INVESTIGATE THIS GUY

You're gonna look for anything, dumbo.

We're probably going to find that out Next season with the world without Jonas which is apparently worse.

Here's my take on that.

I like the "time forms a knot" premise, but I think it would be better described as a chain. The three interlocking rings like we see in the symbol on the cave door have to be the same size and shape or the thing would fall apart as they spin past each other. My thought is introducing too much change in one universe would cause an apocalypse large enough to a whole galaxy.

CHOOSE

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this. people underestimate the will power and intellectual sharpness you can get when someone you love did die or is in danger. Talking about mothers who can lift cars out of nowhere. I get that some people are not enough educated to understand that. But guess what? Maybe high intellectual series like Dark aren't made for you...

Yeah except they specifically explain why that is in the 2nd season
Can Americans actually not read?

should we start having Dark generals? how do we call them?
>/DARK/
>/Sic Mundus/
>/Sic Mundus Creatus Est/
>/SMCE/

WHO THE FUCK WAS THAT GUY COVERED IN TAR (DARK MATTER) IN THE WOODS?
THE GUY WHO WHISPERED JONAS.
It's definitely not Mikkel.
also he was at the pass, when Jonas tried to destroy it

I think the problem ultimately is sloppy writing.
They've set up the time travel mechanics as a causal loop; we know the end (post-apocalypse future, many dead) and the beginning (everyone is living peacefully with their own families in Winden). Why is a character acting a certain way? Because the future needs to happen the way we described it. While this is logically consistent from a time travelling perspective, it does not exempt the show from criticism. There should be an attempt to do all that, but the process itself has to be believable.
I guess there still is some wiggle room because it is not exactly clear what Jonas, Claudia and Adam's aims are. We know they all want to "fix" things but the show doesn't explain what their plan is precisely. Either way, both Jonas and Claudia have interacted with future versions of themselves. They know what the future versions told them, and they know how they acted as a result. Once they themselves become old and get to interact with their younger selves they should know that if they want to change what will happen they need to change their behaviour towards their younger self (relative to what they remember it being).

K I N O

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Is Mikkel autistic?
>You're cool
>No, I am Mikkel

>It's definitely not Mikkel.
It is Mikkel though
He's just hallucinating him

>Dark
>Sloppy writing
Literally everything is planned out ahead of time
Every action a character takes makes sense from the characters perspective and the development they go through and every major character has some kind of arc or multiple ones
There is no step that we've seen that isn't believable, doesn't make sense or is a plot hole.

The only thing coming anywhere near close is Noah being unable to shoot Adam, which would be stupid, unless Adam had the gun sabotaged, or knew it was going to malfunction thanks through the information of a previous loop.
You'd have to be retarded to think this show suffers from bad writing at any part

Based.

youtube.com/watch?v=yXcRpsp_ltA

I'm doubtful we could sustain it. A Netflix European Detective general would be better.
>Babylon Berlin
>Perfume (Parfum)
>Dark
>Frozen Dead (Glace)
>Money Heist (Casa de Papel)
>The Mantis (La Mante)
>High Seas (Alta Mers)
>Various Scandi-noir shows
There's a lot of material we could cover, and it would keep the threads on the board long enough for meaningful discussion to develop despite the small but devoted audiences.

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Just put "Dark" somewhere in the OP

My point is that everything Adult Jonas and Old Claudia have done so far has done nothing but ensure things stayed the same. If that is their plan and maybe they want to change things elsewhere, fine, but I was under the impression Adult Jonas at least wanted to change things.

>For example, Future Jonas (late 40s/50) knows that Mikkel/Michael kills himself because 2020 Jonas travels back to 2019 and tells him that he's going to kill himself.

lmao imagine thinking jonas is jonas elmao

>They've set up the time travel mechanics as a causal loop

They made it so we're believed it is. The characters doubt it and want to change things but don't seem to succeed. It's still open whether it really IS a loop.

there was a bit at the end of s1 where HG Tannhaus can only complete work on the time machine after Jonas showed him how the finished thing works
to me that ruined the entire time travel aspect because it breaks the loop, or rather, the loop couldnt happen in the first instance
like doc brown only coming up with the delorean after marty has gone back in time and shown him

S1 was bad too but you were hypnotized by germanspeak and slow pace

I think the only real problem with S1 was Ulrich not being able to kill Helge
That was a bit dumb

>not being able

Except that didn't happen. He just didn't make sure enough Helge was dead.

>it breaks the loop, or rather, the loop couldnt happen in the first instance
???

Watch the Dark shill throw a misfit again...

>b-but that was the sloppy err--- I mean planning from this shit show

That's what I meant. It's a bit stupid that he wouldn't check to see if he was dead.

>If that is their plan and maybe they want to change things elsewhere, fine, but I was under the impression Adult Jonas at least wanted to change things.
It is literally explained in the show itself that they want to change things from the point where they are right now in the story, adult Jonas literally says he has to become the person he is right now. He is choosing, in that moment, to keep the past because he believes he can change everything as adult Jonas now and fix things.
The show literally explains this you brainlet, Jonas flat out explains this to his younger self.

>blah blah blah im a shill, im a shill
just fuck off, retard

like the grandfoather paradox
either you disappear like marty mcfly
or nothing happens
turns out nothing happens in darks interpretation

this is a plothole

I still don't understand why mikkel had to die

>Adult Helge has a disfigured/scarred side of his face from the start
>Ulrich beats the everloving shit out of young Helge with a rock until he's lying there covered in blood and Helge stopped moving, apparently causing a brain injury too since Helge is said to be even dumber from that point on
>Its bad writing because Ulrich, who is barely keeping his sanity and is horrified at what he is and has to do doesn't realize he caused the scars on adult Helge, nor is he calm enough like a professional hitman to check wherever Helge has a pulse/really is dead
It really is true, this show exposes brainlets

Calm down.
The fact that Jonas uses that excuse doesn't make it good. He just seems to say "we can't change the past" and leaves it at that. When it is clear that if he had told his younger self not to confront Mikkel about his identity that the course of events would have been altered. Maybe Mikkel would've killed himself anyway, but it would've had to have happened a different way.
By being able to interact with past versions of themselves, characters have the possibility to describe exactly the path they have taken and the consequences of their choices, giving their younger selves a chance to diverge from that path.
The fact this is just dismissed without any explanation leaves some unanswered questions.
What changed between Teen Jonas trying to prevent Mikkel's suicide and Adult Jonas letting him cause it? Maybe it will be explained, but it's not so obvious that it will.

i like the ulrich / tiedemann feud
like they're fated to hate each other across all points in time

If you don't think leaving someone for dead when they aren't isn't one of the most overused tropes in film history I don't know what to tell you.

That doesn't answer his point, you retarded shill.

He literally beat the shit out of a KID with a fucking rock. Kid Helge not dying from that crap is just stupid and unbelievable.

>What changed between Teen Jonas trying to prevent Mikkel's suicide and Adult Jonas letting him cause it?
from what i understand it's claudia telling him that following that route will lead to him destroying the loop

What the hell is Claudia's plan anyway? What's her endgame?

That isn't a plothole, it at worst stretches your disbelief that an officer would go so far. But he literally is searching for his own long-lost brother and became the equivalent of the German FBI because of his brother, and he got a very strange mail saying his brother is there and the whole town seems to be hiding some serious shit, with kids going missing.
From the perspective of his character, it makes absolute sense, but you can say he goes too far. But the guy just flat out says 'I am going to find out what the fuck is going on here' after he figures out his brother isn't there.
For all he knows this is some weird fucking cult and there are corpses buried in that powerplant

Tbf the plant manager should have just said "It's highly radioactive, it would be dangerous to drill through, I won't allow it". What the fuck was non-nuclear physicist Clausen gonna do about it?

I wasn't a huge fan of the actor cast for old Ulrich. I get that they got different actors to play the older versions of themselves, but he seemed a bit too young for the part.

Hannah being even more of a complete psycho bitch than before was great

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what the fuck are you even talking about?

She must be wild in bed.

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>Claudia goes from wanting to murder her dad to wanting him dead in seconds
>Noah not knowing how a gun works
>nobody's cellphones are on for whatever reason
>Jonas telling Martha "don't leave this bunker" and being as vague as possible rather than explaining exactly what is about to happen
>The detective being determined to not listen to anyone and just fucking with a nuclear power plant

That more or less happens when he went "what is in this room" - "its highly radiocative" - "I am going on" - "You can't, its radioactive" - "Are you going to stop me?" - "No."

>I don't find it realistic that somebody could survive head trauma like that
cool, you are still a brainlet

Stranger Things is much better

finna mating press hannah

>what a goddamn mess

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otp

Kek is she fucking cross eyed? Ugly slut

It's called a bootstrap paradox.
Like the letter Mikkel writes, he only knows of its existence after Jonas brings it back in time, but for him having to see it it has to already have been written. The letter has no origin or beginning, but still exists the same.

She used the miraculous powers of time travel to spite Ulrich and make a point.

If thats not commitment i dont know what is.

>tfw no hannah mommy gf

it's not fair

>S3 big reveal is everyone in the multiverse is Adam or his progeny
>He's actually God

it was good, but the ending was absolute trash.
the forced use of "the question is not blah blah blah" was absolutely cringe inducing.
plus you know they're just going to keep doing that when they write themselves into corner.
>"The question is not which world, the question is which MULTIUNIVERSE OMEGALUL"
pretty bad. loved it up until that, but now that they've gone multiverse pretty much nothing matters because they can do anything they want. it's the biggest desu ex machina in existence

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I bet Agnes and Noah are actually his children through Martha or something

I honestly don't even care about the big mystery anymore. I just wan't to see characters from different timelines/dimensions interact with each-other.

>people going through extreme measures for their loved ones
4channel incels: iTs A pLoThOlE!!

There are only three parallel universes. Sic mundus creatus est.