Why do people pretend this movie is bad?

>permavirgin who was on late 90s/early 00s boards discussing star wars

Doesn’t disprove what I said.

i fucking love politics in my kids movies

I watched it last night for the first time in a decade and really enjoyed it.

>Bad characters except Obi
Qui-Gon is one of the best SW characters. Cope. The villain is still remembered and loved unlike literally every other villain except for Darth Vader. Even my zoom zoom 11 year old self didn't think it was too long way back in the day, so work on your ADHD.

You are attacking him, not the arguments or facts cited.

You DO know that it's not against the law for people to have differing viewpoints, right? Some people have different preferences in movies.

Attached: 984.jpg (409x618, 58K)

It's alright. Not great or anything but certainly not shit. Attack of the Clones was a fucking disaster tho.

cuz they’re visually illiterate

>Qui-Gon is one of the best SW characters. Cope.
Is not even a character.
>The villain is still remembered and loved unlike literally every other villain except for Darth Vader.
No. You could have a point with Sheev tho.
The DESIGN is amazing and iconic. That is a great thing prequel have.

Politics take up about 2% of that movie. I watched it many times as a kid and it never bothered me. It's always the boomers saying that kids are supposed to hate this film. Kids fucking loved this. I watched NGE when I was 12 and I loved that too. Kids aren't as dumb as you think they are. They just don't have attention spans for slow ass films.

>Naboo is one of the coolest locations in SW.
It's called Italy user.

>Is not even a character.
Obi Wan in OT isn't a character either than. Qui-Gon serves the same role in I as Obi Wan does in IV. Did you not notice that while you were seething? Qui-Gon is the personification of the Jedi Order in this film, he serves an important role in establishing the values of Jedi of this era.

There's no main character.

People who take SW too seriously should kill themselves. They were fun.

Attached: Green_milk.png (1339x803, 1.28M)

Is this what you think Italy looks like? I don't even know how to argue here, I don't see any resemblance other than it being pretty sunny. Naboo is more of a "what if Byzantine empire existed for 1000 more years" kind of place.

Attached: Theed.png (1916x810, 3.6M)

I fucking love Qui-Gon but his character in the movie just isn’t present. In novels he’s fleshed out a lot more. His importance to Anakin’s story is really all there is to him in TPM. Just to set up that Anakin needed a teacher like him and his absence was why Anakin eventually turned.

>Qui-Gon is the personification of the Jedi Order in this film
You are particularly retarded because he is clearly shown as someone that is not really in the mainstream, modus operandi or philosophy-wise.
lmao retard

It’s the finest of the Star Wars movies by a wide margin - in fact I hesitate to call it a movie, since a film is what it is.

It’s a rollicking adventure with big, bold imaginative worlds inhabited by fascinating peoples - much more interesting than the barren tyrannical hellscape of the OT. The core adventure plot with the sublime Liam Neeson and a great young Ewan McGregor - who pulls off a delicate balance of subordinated humility and the seething impatience of long ignored experience - is supplemented wonderfully by neo-Machiavellian rumination on the threat of conspiracy undermining the foundations of a republican polis and neo-Humean political economy. Jealousy of trade is key here, but too few understand it.

But these are the deep treasures. At heart it is a pure fantasy for the young - in age and in heart - and nothing beats the exhalation of the podracing (perhaps the greatest race in cinema history) or Darth Maul’s final showdown in Theed Palace’s generator room, accompanied by an orgasmic John Williams cue that rivals anything he’s ever done and intercut brilliantly with the outer seige, the Gungan war on the battle droids, and Anakin’s miraculous run through the Trade Federation blockade station. Stunning carefree blockbuster filmmaking.

Well at least you agree that he's a an interesting character, so let's just agree on that.

Because it is bad.

It's literally the only interesting thing. And the actual action is carried out by another character.
Stop baiting.

>permavirgin who was on late 90s/early 00s boards discussing star wars

Reporting

People hated it because they had absurdly high expectations based on their love/memories of the OT, but didn't actually know what they wanted, because what they'd sold themselves as to what Star Wars should be was a lie.

Lucas went and made a movie 100% thematically consistent with his universe and people freaked out because they couldn't view Star Wars objectively anymore.

Attached: phantom_13.jpg (1920x1080, 596K)

i like this copypasta

Attached: 1539381922920.jpg (800x450, 61K)

What? No he doesn’t. He’s not on the Council BECAUSE he’s different from the rest of the Jedi. It’s why Anakin turned to the dark side. He needed a teacher like Qui-Gon that wasn’t a traditional dogmatic mentor.

My point is they don't develop many interiors. Beyond a handful of CGI layouts we don't see that much of Naboo.

I was 15 when it came out and I enjoyed it. Then when AOTC came out and was the worst one yet, it was like when Dale rips a ketchupfart in Stepbrothers. I realized in hindsight how terrible TPM was. I thought maybe ROTS would save it, but even that was awful, and it really surprised me to see so many of you fucking youngling faggots praising it. Literally every plot point we wanted to see out of it failed spectacularly. At least we just wanted TPM to look cool and it did at the time.

No, all the prequels were panned from the start. Its only after the new round of failures did people start to look back with rose colored glasses, and wish for simpler times when at least the man responsible for the IP was the one ruining it.

>actual action is carried out by another character
So just like I said, he's the Obi Wan of OT. He's the old guy who represent old established Jedi mindset who dies in the end. Please tell me how Obi Wan in IV is more interesting than Qui-Gon in 1. He isn't, you're a brainlet who're repeating the talking points of e-celebs.

Almost nobody defended these movies, then suddenly everyone started pretending they loved them just because of their hate boner for the new ones.

>>Qui-Gon is the personification of the Jedi Order in this film
in contrast with the Council, which is suggested to have atrophied in terms of doctrine. Qui-Gon just has this feeling of being someone that might've read the Jedi Books in TLJ.

Attached: Qui-Gon-Jinn-qui-gon-jinn-4211476-384-600.jpg (383x576, 37K)

>they don't develop many interiors
Hah? Have you watched the film? Like 20 minutes of it are set in the palace on Naboo. Naboo is certainly more established than Tatooine or Cloud City. We only see a bar on Tatooine and a bunch of corridors on Cloud City. Naboo takes worldbuilding to a new level

This.

>neo-Machiavellian rumination on the threat of conspiracy undermining the foundations of a republican polis and neo-Humean political economy. Jealousy of trade is key here, but too few understand it.
interesting, maybe I'll wait for the film analysis vid

This, but I think a lot of children starting finding an internet voice and discovering Yea Forums and to them, the prequels were the shit because they grew up with probably the worst childhood movie series ever and their bar is so low. We got an adventuring archaeologist battling Nazis and they got a bunch of movies about some British nerd who waves a stick at the bad men.

>then suddenly
Kids loved PT. Guess what, those kids are adults now and they can tell you to fuck off. And I'm pretty sure that most people who hate PT are zoomers who grew up hating it by default because that's what the internet told them to do.

No, you are just a contrarian, kid.

The Renaissance Venetian trappings are an essential element of the mise en scene. For any educated viewer - and even the less educated who have at least had the decency to be moderately socialised - early modern Venice is an important exemplar. The republican polity par excellence. There is no better basis for Naboo styling than that given the importance of the planet in Lucas’ cosmic (and yes, metaphysical) narrative of corruption, decay, and worldly imperfectability.

People wanted adult Anakin.
Wanted EmpireStrikeBack tone.

As a film it has its flaws. The characters are not introduced properly, like the Jedi at the beginning of the film are shown without any directorial emphasis. Jar Jar is indeed an irritating character and a lot of ideas did not work, but it remains a great film and as a child I loved it. Visually the film is remarkable

>lot of children starting finding an internet voice and discovering Yea Forums
user PT came out in 1999. I'm one of those PT kids and I've been here since 2006. I'm 30.

>still on Yea Forums at 30
horrifying

I just assume most people defending the prequels are the 25 and under crowd. I'm 35 and I think they suck.

No, I just grew up with PT and I always thought PT is in many way better than OT. Better in art direction and better in world building certainly. If you were a 50 year old who grew up with OT and that why you hate PT, I'd respect your opinion. But chances are you're 20 and you hate PT because RLM told you to.

Caring about this shit at 35 is nothing to brag about

Attached: IMG_20190702_122843.jpg (1060x1341, 367K)

>35
Too old, you were 16 when Episode 1 came out, you didn't fit the target demographic. I was 11, that was perfect. I rewatched Episode 1 probably 5-7 times. Same with Toy Story. Those are kids movies for kids. We loved them.

Nope, older than you.
And no, you are the one blind for nostalgia, as you admit by yourself.

i was 9 when i saw it and really enjoyed the podracing and seeing all the weird ass aliens so lucas was somewhat right. every alien except jarjar and his shit species.

The opposite. One can be older and shitpost here, no problem.
I worry for you kids being here when I was doing better.

oh okay

Attached: Othello.jpg (287x429, 58K)

>blind for nostalgia
What SW fan doesn't love those films because of nostalgia? That's not even a criticism.

Not that guy but Quigonn is a maverick who frequently goes against the rules and does things unorthodox to do what he thinks is right. He is at odds with his peers because of this.

I was 15, and I also loved TPM. Literally half the people in my grade waited in line to watch this movie, and handfuls of sophomores and juniors as well. It wasn't nerdy back then, it was accepted and a shared cultural thing.

>pretend
There are 3 good Star Wars movies. Two of them only count for half.

I saw part of Revenge of the Sith on TV the other night and all the CGI like e.g. the dinosaur that Obi Wan rides while chasing Grievous is so hideously dated it was just distracting. Also in the SW universe, a lot of stuff is old, and a lot of stuff is grimy. Practical effects really bring this to life, you see the dirt and mud, the rust, the character, which is partly why I liked TFA.

Is 24. I love TPM but can acknowledge it’s flaws. I’ve hated AOTC since day 1. ROTS came out at the right time for me to think it was the greatest thing ever, but over time it’s lost that appeal of being dark and edgy. Anakin’s turn just feels so forced that it ruins the whole movie for me.

Wrong. Only ANH was good.

name the protagonist
describe the characters in a way other than their profession or costume
pretty much any of the RLM critiques since they were thoughtful back then instead of hack sellouts

See, I'm 30 and I'm dead inside, I feel nothing. That's why I shitpost here, it's as good a waste of time as any. Wasting your time here when you're young thought? That's straight up tragic.

But they're right. It genuinely feels like a first draft that wasn't edited or even looked at by anyone but George. Which is why it's filled with so much backwards nonsense and characters acting against their own interests to serve the plot.

>Why do people pretend this movie is bad?
It's not fantastic, however it is superior to all of the Disneywars films by a huge margin.

Attached: nute.png (519x607, 391K)

Nah, it’s people with nostalgia and contrarians on top of that. And idiots who let memes sway their views, I guess

>A New Hope
>A New Hope
>A New Hope
I agree. It’s an actual complete film for one. Doesn’t waste time on romance filler too,

toy story stands up to any age group. the phantom menace does not. same goes for the rest of the prequels. they are children's movies. The issue being, children will watch literally anything.

I literally was seeing my friends off with "may the force be with you" for years after release of episode 1. And it was pretty normal, kids loved star wars back then.

It's an age thing.

Those of us who were fans of Star Wars before episode one generally hate it.

Kids who grew up with the prequels have nostalgia for it.

That entire segment is retarded. It's perfectly easy to describe prequel characters by character traits rather than biographical information, which anyone who's seen the prequels and has the capacity to think for themselves can figure out by thinking about it for two seconds longer than Plinkett wants you to. It's just one expression of a pretty common flaw with Plinkett's reviews - using comedy and delivery to cover for the relatively weaker points.

If the argument is that it's not that the character lacks traits like personality and behavior and mindset, but that the audience doesn't remember it as well, that's just a long-winded up one's own ass way of saying the movie as a whole isn't as good or memorable - which is true, but a pretty shallow point to take like ten fucking minutes to make for a review purporting itself to be in-depth and thorough. Which brings me, again, to why I don't like those reviews - they use comedy and delivery to pad out what are often pretty shallow points or nothing more than restating the premise.

I was never invested as heavily in Star Wars as most fans, but they did take up a nice share of my childhood. They were movies my father enjoyed, but I could still enjoy them as well growing up.

When episode 1 came around, there was an enormous amount of hype. The John Williams soundtrack was on heavy rotation on MTV as well, which was unique considering the other music that was played at that time. I was 14 when it released. I thought it was an amazing movie and I still do to this day. Can't say I remember much about the second one and the third one I haven't seen to this day.

>Release Date: May 19, 1999
>The Matrix: March 31, 1999

Pretty good year for movies.

The OT seems more influenced by the Bible or John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress than Machiavelli. I wish Lucas went full A&E on it though because we ditch a lot of the Republic narrative after TPM and it doesn't set up the New Republic well at all

Attached: Doge.jpg (369x273, 24K)

The protag of TPM is Qui-Gonn. Qui-Gonn’s the protagonist because he makes decisions, it’s because he’s the one with the motivation and the one going forward on his arc. He’s the one insisting that Anakin is the chosen one, he’s the one who insists that Anakin will be trained, etc. He’s the one pushing the Anakin storyline forward. Anakin is more or less a plot device next to him in TPM. Qui-Gonn is the one pushing for Anakin to become a Jedi

>children will watch literally anything.
And I did see literally anything. But I only loved a few things. Star Wars, Lion King, Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Lain for some reason, that pretty much was my childhood. I can't tell you why kids like the things they like, but don't dismiss things just because kids like them.

as a kid Attack of the Clones was my favorite because the concept was legitimately the best
watching them as an adult, that one is easily the worst with the horrific storytelling and effects
I still like the weird bug planet battle though

Maybe I’m an outlier, but I’m 27 and thought they were dumb even as a kid. My grandparents got TPM on VHS and I can distinctly recall finding vast swathes of it awful. Duel of the Fates is eternal kino, though

>I’ve hated AOTC since day 1.

Me too. it's the most boring of the new trilogy and it is also where Lucas went Full retard with bad CG, while in TP a lot of scenarios were half real, with some elements in cg and visually everything worked better, but of course, TP is also the chapter that cost the most among those made by Lucas.

Qui-gonn Jin, Obi-wan and Padme were the three protags of TPM. Just as Obi-wan, Anakin and Padme were the protags of AoTC and RoTS. And Han, Leia and Luke with ANH, TESB and RoTJ. AND with Finn, Rey and Poe in TFA.

The Star Wars films have never had a singular protagonist. It's always centered around trios.

Everyone agrees Episode one sucks, but how would you personally fix them? You get offered 10 million to film it, you can't turn it down, and you can't make it "An hour and a half of me fucking Natalie Portman." So what do you do, seriously?

Attached: Two Dicks Star Wars.jpg (1080x838, 91K)

>review purporting itself to be in-depth and thorough
>has entire segments dedicated to a rape subplot and hot pockets
???

The Plinkett test completely misses out on how we characterise REAL ACTUAL PEOPLE we interact with day to day. Despite the tirade of "It's what's inside that counts", the fact is that the shorthand provided by people's professions, their appearance and affectations, and the statistically verifiable way this effects their behaviour is far too useless to ever leave human vocabulary in these matters.

Furthermore, I would go as far as to say that the Plinkett test is incredible at making any character sound fucking boring. Even incredibly well nuanced characters sound fucking boring when you parse them through the Plinkett test, and not a whole lot less boring than someone who is actually the most straight laced whitebread motherfucker imaginable.

Kira Yoshikage from JoJo Part 4 is from what I can tell, a character literally designed from the ground up around the idea of passing the Plinkett test with flying colours, and yet a description of him following Plinkett test rules still manages to miss the context that makes anything cool about him as a character.

The protagonist is obviously Qui-Gon, and the crux of the plot (Anakin becoming a Jedi) is entirely the focus of his arc.

Anakin is the C-plot of TPM, though. Sure, Jinn is the driving force in carting little Ani around, but there’s two other very important plots that are the focus of the movie and Jinn’s purpose/motivation in those doesn’t seem to be anything greater than “am Jedi”

Qui-Gon is an independent minded risk taker, who is also wise and measured.

I passed Plinkett's test.
What do I win?

Obiwan's little investigation was pretty cool at the time.

>The Star Wars films have never had a singular protagonist
that's a load of bullshit
>ANH: Luke
>ESB: Luke
>RoTJ: Luke
>TPM: ?????
>AoTC: Anakin
>RoTS: Anakin
>TFA: Rey
>TLJ: Rey
Absolutely laughable you think someone like Poe who has a total screen time of what - 5 minutes across 2 movies? - is a protagonist

You say “the Plinkett test” like it’s an actual thing and not just a short, joke segment to highlight how fucking bland the prequel characters are

>am jedi
What. If you watched the movie or even read a wiki article, you see that every other jedi in the movie takes about how he defies the council and all that. He’s one of the most unusual jedi in the entire order.

>ROS: Kylo

>read a wiki
Are you serious?

all that cope
are you forgetting the Plinkett test also tested original series characters for comparison?
>Furthermore, I would go as far as to say that the Plinkett test is incredible at making any character sound fucking boring
example?
oh you gave an example... from a fucking anime...

I remember sitting in the theater and trying to convince myself I was having a good time. It dragged on forever and the love story just felt completely out of place. Later on I came to appreciate the Kamino stuff (even though there’s dumb shit like Obi-Wan getting blasted in the feet with rockets and being perfectly fine). But it’s such a hard movie to watch even now. The pacing is terrible. ROTS has way better pacing.

It’s a meme test with extremely arbitrary criteria.

Qui-Gon: Defiant, willing to go against his superiors to do what he thinks is right.
Padme Amidala: Naive, but well-meaning and wants to do right by her people and democracy.

Plinkett's shitty test doesn't even work on his intended targets.

because people expected another Wagnerian epic and instead were given a Shakespearean tragedy

I don’t think he even watched the film. So Plinkett says that Valorum didn't need to send a commision to see if Amadila's claim was true, but wasn't the whole point that Valorum sent the Jedi behind the senates back?

Qui-Gon says thaf the negotiations will be short because people like the Trade Fed are cowards, so presumably Valorum had the same idea.
But the Jedi failed because of the Sith.

Valorum could have had the Jedi testify etc if they were successful, but they weren't, and he's already on shaky political ground. That would do him in.
And unlike many others we see in the senate, he's clearly a friend to the Jedi, going behind bureaucracy to use them.

Then Plinkett is saying that Qui-Gon should just steal the part from Watto, but that would mean Watto calling the hutts, which they can't have happen. Not to mention Jedi not being professional thieves, so they’d likely get caught stealing unless they succeed in mind tricking, which they didn’t.

Then Plinkett is saying that Windu should have sent more Jedi back to Naboo, even though the whole point is to draw Maul out, which he won't do if there are a whole gaggle of knights and masters there. Maul isn’t going to think he can solo an army of Jedi or even a large squad.
Not that guy but if what he’s saying is right, then it fails to even do that.

Adding to these guys. I am restricting myself to Episodes I to III for their descriptions.

>Describe Ep I to III characters without saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role is

>Anakin Skywalker
A prodigy with a lot of anxiety problems and a deep fear of losing people close to him, coupled with a Messiah complex that was forced upon him by others and an unrealistic desire to be perfect. It eventually drives him to commit horrible acts in the ultimately vain hope of saving the love of his life. In the end, he becomes the Galaxy's greatest monster.

>Obi-wan Kenobi
Noble, content, kind, caring, but not without a sense of humor and levity, Obi-wan Kenobi's biggest flaw is a blind spot where the growing problems of best friend Anakin are concerned. Otherwise he glides through the three movies as a person with a strong moral center and is arguably the biggest "good guy" in the trilogy, always willing to do the right thing. He is similar to his master Qui-gon but without the latters contempt for authority. Everyone could stand to be a little more like Obi-wan.

>Padmé Amidala
Dedicated to goodness and preserving freedom and democracy, first for her home planet in particular against an invading force and then later in the Galaxy at large. Rarely thinks of herself before others, though she finds herself falling head over heels for Anakin; even still, her love for Anakin never leads her to selfish acts. She tries to help Anakin's anxieties, but doesn't seem to realize that by loving and marrying him she actually makes them worse. One of the few people who sees Chancellor Palpatine's increasing control over the Senate and understands him to be a threat democracy, though unfortunately few listen to her. Ultimately she dies as part of Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.

literally none of the film is shown from his perspective, and we gain zero insight into him as a character
is he? how can someone be a wise and measured risk taker?
that's what I mean - I liked the concepts at the time, and as a kid I definitely overlooked flaws films had if I liked their concepts
had that shitty Valerian movie come out when I was 12, I would have eaten that up too

Because talking about trade deals and embargoes and casting votes in congress doesn't make my tits hard

You’re treating an overblown meme review like facts to be debated, you autist. It’s like a decade old and you’re still booty blasted because it called a shit movie shit. Which literally everyone over the age of 5 already knew

Not that guy but did you read the rest of his post? He’s staying those films are ensemble ones with numerous guys being important characters.

You are making criticisms of plinkett's points based off of stuff that isn't established in the film or is complete conjecture on your part.

>Qui-Gon: Defiant

That's literally one scene in the movie that lasts about a minute, user. That's what you define Qui-Gon by?

Attached: 47 Smile.png (808x853, 729K)

Star Wars autists aren’t capable of discussing the movies without a bunch of comics, books, and wiki articles by their side

>RLM
The more you watch their other content, the more their behaviour will make sense. They are actually consistenly aweful movie critics. They like to get high and mighty about how much better they are than others and do these endlessly long fake podcasts, but at the core of it all they are just the exact same. They are grade A hypocrites . And pretty lackluster movie reviewers in addition.

You can pretty much predict exactly how they are going to react. The only thing they are good at is detecting a bandwagon starting to roll, so they always jump on it the first chance they get, and if they can't get on fast enough but sense potential for an anti-bandwagon, they will try and start that. That is exactly what they did with TFA. When the wind started turning after TLJ and fans suddenly hated Disney again, they turned right around and "admitted to their mistake" to get onto the bandwagon nice and early while people didn't realize whether the "love it" or "hate it" faction was going to win out yet.

They are good social manipulators, I will give you that, but they pretty much just say what ever will get their audience nodding, and they know how to make a tear-down entertaining whether substantiated or not. In that regard, they are just the edgy """high brow""" mirror image to all those shill-casts they like to mock.

And they do that with every movie, not just Star Wars, I got sick and tired of them real fast. The more I watched of them, the more they reminded me of the higher tier corporate bullshitters I have encountered in large companies, you know, the type that don't just rise through hot air and convincing other bullshitters, but that can hide their unsophisticated behind sophisticated wording. In the end, you develop a nose for that nonsense anyways. RLM are the same, beating dead horses and unsophisticated "criticism" hidden behind nice wording.

>noooo don't debate our shit review, i-i-i-i-it's actually just a comedy bit
Ah, the famous comedy defense. I though only Daily Show qualified for that

It’s a comedy channel, what is this crazy projection shit

>protagonists
It’s not Qui-Gonn’s the protagonist because he makes decisions, it’s because he’s the one with the motivation and the one going forward on his arc. He’s the one insisting that Anakin is the chosen one, he’s the one who insists that Anakin will be trained, etc. He’s the one pushing the Anakin storyline forward. Anakin is more or less a plot device next to him in TPM. Qui-Gonn is the one pushing for Anakin to become a Jedi.

Anakin is vital to that victory and their lack of support does serve as motivation. People rejected Anakin and co which makes Qui-Gonn push harder.

>because he makes decisions
So no one else makes decisions?

no, he said they have multiple protagonists and then proceeded to claim supporting characters were main ones like a fucking retard

>Ctrl F Midi-chlorians
>Zero results

Gee...

Attached: Robert laugh.gif (245x245, 726K)

It’s not up for debate, the prequels are shit and you’re here sperging out about a bad comedy review that’s probably close to how old you are

it's not a story about qui gonn
it's not a story about anakin
it's not a story about obi wan
it's just.... blah

>stuff that isn't established in the film
Valorum is established in the open title crawl. The stuff about Tatooine being Hutt space is in the film itself. Everything he said was from tpm

>all the information is presented in the movie in an easy to understand way
>redditlettermedia apoligists: I don't understand this easy to follow movie meant for children

Qui-Gon is an experienced guy who teaches younger guys in the story. He's highly moral and does what's right
Obi Wan wants to be like Qui-Gon but is too naive and impulsive for now
Anakin is a smart kid who just wants to have some fun, but has many responsibilities because his life is tough

why does this place suddenly hate plinkett's criticisms? is it to virtue-signal about how much you hate reddit by proxy?

I find amazing how since Disney produces garbage, all of sudden these movies are good.
They are bad but enjoyable.

It pretends to be grander and more epic than what it is
They talk about trade disputes and put things to a vote in congress, and so much diplomacy; when all we wanted was a movie about space cowboys and space samurai duking it out with a giant war in the background.
This is what the Clone Wars animated series got right.
George forgot what made his original trilogy great.

Attached: mce.jpg (780x603, 139K)

>it's not up for debate what I say is RIGHT
Ummm well go fuck yourself then. If it's not up for debate then go fuck yourself and I hope your mom dies in her sleep tonight. There's your lack of debate

Not that guy but I can name scenes at the top of my head.

One scene was obiwan saying quigonn would be in the council if it weren’t for his countless opposition. After his death,yoda said that obiwan’s choice to train annakin has quigon’s defiance in him, that’s just two I remember at the top of my head an it’s been ten years since I watched it

because they are poor criticisms that crumble under the weight of arguments that could be thought up by 5 year olds

>criticisms
But user it's just a comedy bit, it's not a criticism. Those are just jokes

>RLM
The guys who shill capeshit and made space cop? Why should anyone take any advice on movies from them? And even their reviews include loads of wrong shit like everything about practical effects and cgi

That’s about all the value your opinion has, prequel babby

>One scene was obiwan saying quigonn would be in the council if it weren’t for his countless opposition.

Don't remember this. Can you find the scene? The Yoda bit is a direct reference to the scene I mentioned.

The Plinkett test is really a character content test, and because George Lucas is a Formalist director, like Bresson or Ozu (not Kurosawa), there is really no need to invoke it.

Attached: download (1).jpg (920x612, 33K)

They got more popular so they suck now

>why does this place suddenly hate plinkett's criticisms
>suddenly
How long have you been away from this site? I’ve heard similar criticisms like these ones for years. Even before TFA.

>boo hooo this film for kids is too hard for me to follow
Well you might be retarded, consider that

my true opinion - it's bad.

it's about 1:29 into the movie

Attached: cap_Star.Wars.Episode.I.1999.1080p.BluRay.X264-AMIABLE_01_29_49_01.jpg (1920x824, 236K)

Oh so you want to have a debate now? I thought it wasn't up to debate. I thought we just tell each other to go fuck ourselves and that's it. That's what not having a debate looks like, do you not like that?

>Valorum is established in the open title crawl
All it states is that he sent the Jedi to resolve the dispute. Not that he's some special friend to the jedi or whatever the fuck.
>The stuff about Tatooine being Hutt space is in the film itself
So what does that have to do with Watto?

I don’t know where his endless came from but I think he meant this one.

Source: imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Phantom-Menace.html

Attached: C1A9E2E7-6159-46E1-86BC-345DC906E850.jpg (1796x524, 329K)

I always thought it was an attempt to make SW laic, where the Force was seen too much as a magical spiritual thing. but certainly the space worms were not a good idea.

>film for kids
>"These trade disputes are going to choke our economy! We should put it to an emergency vote in the galactic congress"
Another big problem with the movie, george is all over the fucking place with his target audience.

I was 11 when the first movie came out and even I understood what was going on, are you actually retarded?

Are you just replying to random people crying?

I honestly think people growing up with the OT then hating the prequels has more to do with nostalgia. I grew up watching the OT, still preferred the OT when the prequels came out, and still loved ep 1 and 3. But I was a teenager when the prequels dropped, I didn't watch the original release of the OT I watched them in the 90s, so I hadn't formed any nostalgic bond or preset expectations for what I expected the prequels to be. I'd say this gives me a relatively objective view on them, and there seems to be a lot of people in a similar position.

Honestly don't remember it, so I'll have to take your word for it. Show don't tell still applies, having Obi-Wan offhandedly mention it doesn't really strike me as good fodder for a character's defining trait.

Doesn't make sense, reddit love the prequels. Must be underage b& that "grew up with it so we love to hate it".
I was fucking twelve and thought it was shit.

Kids aren't actually retarded user. All of this worked to establish a bigger universe that's beyond your understanding. That's exactly what you want in sci-fi. You don't just want pew-pew shit for 2 hours, you want a glimpse at a bigger picture, even if you don't quite get what picture is.

>All it states is that he sent the Jedi to resolve the dispute
Exactly. He’s their ally and treats them as allies. Of course he’d back them up.
>So what does that have to do with Watto?
I think this segment is addressing that criticism of why didn’t the Jedi steal from Watto. Personaly, I always thought it’s dumb to steal from gangsters while your ship is in need of repairs but that’s his defence.

way to miss the point idiot.
Yes I got it I understood but is that really what you want in your "movie for children"?
Fucking diplomacy and trade disputes and votes in congress?
You clearly miss my point.
I'd draw you a fucking picture but I don't have the crayons, or the fucking time, to get down to your level.

What's ironic about the whole Midichlorian thing is that it exposes so many memesters for what they are.
Anakin in TPM has more Midichlorians than Yoda, yet Yoda could still kick his ass, meaning that training and discipline is far more important.
Also the force was always biological, practically speaking. "The force is strong in my family."

No I'm consistent in my chain of replies, you're free to browse through it. Why are you confused?

So the Jedi can't do anything right?

Again you miss my points.
It's not about kids getting it, it's that this isn't fucking Vice it's fucking star wars no child wants to see fucking politics in their star wars

the prequels were bad-okayish, the new movies are an abomination.

He still kinda does it telling the order he’s training anakin even when they say no.

the greatest cartoon ever made in america is about war, genocide, fascism, and a bunch of other adult concepts presented in a way for children to understand
I'm not sure you really understand the world outside your mom's basement

how long have you been here?
people loved them until they became popular
Yea Forums is literally where I found out about them

Attached: C-3PO_in_Phantom_Menace.jpg (1334x1000, 429K)

>no child wants to see fucking politics in their star wars
And yet children loved it and only fat 30 year old nerds complained. Kids are used to not understanding things. That's a big part of being a kid. Not everything has to be retarded to cater to kids.

>it's fucking star wars no child wants to see fucking politics in their star wars
Not that guy but one of my favourite A New Hope scenes was where they established the purpose of the Death Star as a fear monger tool, the political situation & more in EP4’s Death Star conference scene. That scene did politics well.

>The guys who shill capeshit and made space cop?
>since they were thoughtful back then instead of hack sellouts
how is it people here fail to read even 2 full lines of text before shoving their feet into their mouths?

Attached: df76b9244893098.jpg (500x336, 31K)

He then tells Anakin he can't train him, but Anakin can watch his movements and be 'mindful'. Dude's all over the place to be honest.

>people loved them until they became popular
Are you sure? Even when they came out, I heard criticisms of them. I even remembered reading about how one guy wrote a 100 page essay on why their review sucks. I think there wa always the anti-RLM crowd, just never that loud.

>WHY ISN'T THIS FILM DUMBED DOWN ENOUGH FOR CHILDREN
Is this really your best defense, RLM shitters?

>Space Oskar Schindler best SW character
probably right, Qui-Gon is chill as fuck, make look Yoda and the Jedi Council like a bunch of autist assholes.

Attached: wfIe3kc.jpg (1920x818, 221K)

>since they were thoughtful back then instead of hack sellouts
Not that guy but they were never thoughtful. They were always the same people who said JJ Abrams should do Star Wars and look now, they’re still those guys. They don’t improve or go down. They’re just as awful as they are before.

Looked like someone pretending to be retarded, some Yea Forums tier stuff

So much soul

You prove my point:
Did they show the part where the emperor held several conferences to approve its design?
Did they show the various stages of building the death star?
No!
We picked up when it was finished and the action started happening.
The phantom menace wastes way too much time showing background shit that had no business being on screen.

the film is quite literally dumb enough for children, and people who love RLM can't understand it and missed important glaringly obvious plot points in the movies

The midichlorians were just George trying to explain how the force is connected to all living things, but it didn't help that it was never expanded on, since they're essentially the bridge between living beings and the Whills.

People didn't like it because it was framed in a scientific way and it was accused of removing the mysticism from the force, but the whole point was that the Jedi had become cold and scientific. And on top of that people thought Midichlorians were the force, they're not, they're the bridge between the living beings and the force, so the force is still a mysterious thing.

>George Lucas is a Formalist director
why didn't Abrams or Johnson understand that?

The thing with trade agreement is, it plays basically no role in the general story. You don't need to understand it, no characters are involved in it. It's just some background shit for nerds to get into

It’s a rather sad day when even Alex Jones can casual explain the prequels in under 10 minutes.

>I think there wa always the anti-RLM crowd, just never that loud.
we're splitting hairs here
RLM is largely hated on Yea Forums today because they're sellout hacks who recommend literally every marvel movie that comes out
but even still there are some people who legitimately enjoy them
back then the vast majority of Yea Forums liked and recommended their stuff. partially because there was so little of it, and partially because it was actually thoughtful commentary
sure there was some hate for them even back then, but that was minor compared to those who liked or were neutral about them
they said jj should do star wars after jj made star trek into a star wars movie
are you mad at them for not being able to predict the role of KK?

no that's just my response to any idiot like this who claims the movie was made for kids

lmao

>He’s their ally
Again, you are inferring things from the film that aren't there.
>I think this segment is addressing that criticism of why didn’t the Jedi steal from Watto
But it doesn't, because it relies on his inference that Watto has a connection to Jabba and would stop the Jedi from stealing from his store. Something that isn't established in the film.

Cause it's not very concise, it's story isn't really there. The whole thing is almost a shaggy dog story. It doesn't have good beats and Anakin and Jar-jar are distracting. It's not a bad movie, but these bad points do bring it down.

Midichlorians represented the Jedi's desire to seek the truth and scientific explanation behind their powers.
They were only mentioned once in the first movie because as the Clone Wars dragged on, the Jedi fell more and more into religious fervor and treated their powers as mysticism rather than an explanable phenomenon. This cult-like behaviour is what led to their fall.

It's pretty bad, and the story is just a bunch of nonsense.
It looks fucking amazing though, it was the last star wars movie shot primarily on film, and it had some really great locations. Pod Racing and the monsters in de planeet coreeeeblblblblblblb are the only thing in the prequels that feel like star wars.
Clones and Sith were both shot all on (early) digital cameras, and this is why a lot of the composite shots and minature sets look like PS2 cutscenes, ESPECIALLY in attack of the clones.
By sith they had slightly better cameras, and had figured out how to light for digital better, so it's quite not as glaring, but it painfully shows its age.

Attached: boss ass.png (370x500, 79K)

Just about every time I see someone bring these up, they demonstrate that they don’t actually know what they do. What’s so demystifying about identifying which part or parts of your body handle a sense? Do having eyes see instead of sight without eyes somehow demystify sight? There’s these things in their body which connects them with the Force. They’re called midichlorians. Instead of using force powers anyway, it’s having these things which allow you to use them. It’s the difference between biting an apple and biting an apple with your teeth. One’s just more specific on how it works.

Oh, so you're going with
>WELL YOU SAY IT'S FOR KIDS BUT UMMM LOOK AT THIS STORY THIS IS COMPLEX KIDS DON'T GET IT
angle huh. Well you're retarded. I watched this as a kid and at no point was I confused. Stop being offended on my behalf, this is some SJW shit you're pulling. Kids loved this, cope

>"The Force gives you the power to have extrasensory perception and to be able to see things and hear things, read minds and levitate things. It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells."
This was from 1977 so I don’t see the problem.

>story isn't really there
Keep repeating that RLM talking point. It's a story about a teacher and his student. The teacher dies and the student learns to take place of his master. Story as old as civilization itself. Maybe it's just not the story you wanted to see

>There’s these things in their body which connects them with the Force.
But rocks are connected to the force too.
It was bad writing, even george knew this which is why it's never mentioned ever again.

>Again, you are inferring things from the film that aren't there.
He literally sent them. He’s employing their services. That’s enough for him to be their ally.
>But it doesn't, because it relies on his inference that Watto has a connection to Jabba and would stop the Jedi from stealing from his store. Something that isn't established in the film.
Okay, you’re just being retarded now. He’s a resident of a planet practically owned by organized crime. And now you have these outsiders siring trouble. Not only is he placing bets on Jabba’s races, so he knows at least one person, but many organized criminal gangs dislike other people in their turf. He doesn’t need direct connections to whisper in a gangster’s ear about some troublemakers from another planet,

>RLM is largely hated on Yea Forums today because they're sellout hacks
They got a backlash because they like TFA, and people found them incoherent after they bashed R1 (many would have found understandable bashing both or even like both).
The rest is people like E;R thinking that they can become popular anti-shilling competitors here.

>he still doesn't understand what I'm saying
For the third time, fuckwit, it's not about kids UNDERSTANDING it.
I'm saying that shit has no place in this movie.
Did A New Hope show the meetings to design the Death Star?
Did A New Hope show the emperor and Vader discussing how to deal with the rebels?
Did A New Hope show the Death Star being built??
NO. We picked up right when it was all done and the action starts.
Just because pointless background shit is simple enough to be understood doesn't mean it belongs on the fucking screen.
Gimme some more I can explain it again if you're still too stupid to get what I'm saying.

Attached: picard-facepalm.jpg (895x503, 33K)

>But it doesn't, because it relies on his inference that Watto has a connection to Jabba and would stop the Jedi from stealing from his store.
He’s a dealer living in Hutt space. A slave owner too who at least knows and does business deals or bets with the hutts according to pic related.

Attached: 2EF38DD3-20ED-4829-A580-7486B6C8E6B6.jpg (1799x259, 205K)

George had lots of stupid ideas in 1977. Luckily he didn't have the clout to stop people from removing them, yet.

The Force, or at least the ability to use it, is clearly hereditary in the original trilogy, which means yes, it is passed on by something in your blood. Whether that's DNA or midichlorians, it really doesn't fucking matter. It's a non-issue. All they did was name it.

In a way, it actually makes the force non-biological. It says that the body has a communicator to this mystical force & the strength of communicators are passed down, instead of the mystical force being passed through family.

turns out that extra information sold more toys meant for kids
the new movies removed every possible minor detail and is failing to movie merchandise
so you're wrong

>Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells.
why did you alter the quote?
>The Force is really a way of seeing; it’s a way of being with life. It really has nothing to do with weapons. The Force gives you the power to have extra-sensory perception and to be able to see things and hear things, read minds and levitate things. It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different. The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us. You have to come to learn it. It’s not something you just get. It takes many, many years…Anyone who studied and worked hard could learn it. But you would have to do it on your own.

People really stop being /ourguys/ just like that huh? Pretty soon the narrative will be we always hated them, really. Just like Eurasia.

The Force is an energy field created by all living beings. Some living beings have communicators in their cells to communicate with it. Those are midichlorians. That's it. Call it "spiritual connection" or whatever and it's the same.
The Force is an energy field that binds this galaxy together. Midichlorians are not the Force and vice versa. Midichlorians exist in all life but the Force exists between all things.

that was pretty much the last straw for me: when they shit all over R1 after praising TFA
a lot of red flags leading up to it, though, including their lauding over Ant Man

>that shit has no place in this movie
Why? That's exactly what I want in sci-fi, some fucking politics that establish the world. That is exactly what nu-SW is missing.
>NO. We picked up right when it was all done and the action starts.
Is this bait? OT is like 60% talking about in-universe shit that is otherwise never explained. Since when is OT a braindead action flick? Remember Obi Wan talking about clone wars? Han talking about the fucking Kessel run? Remember the opening scenes of the entire thing? This shit has no place in the movie does it. Objective proof that OT is 4/10.

The Force was always intended to have a material component, because Star Wars is all about hybridizing fantasy and scifi, and in scifi, "psychic powers" are material. It's also an implicit rejection of strict dualism, as part of the eastern aesthetics of the series: the material and the spiritual aren't the same but they echo each other. This is why Jedi meditate and practice complex techniques, why Sith inevitably ends up physically fucked up, and why he felt the need to include Midichlorians.

Reminder that Yoda straight up tells you in ESB that life created the Force, like some kind of galactic gestalt. It's not an external God. It’s always something IN the universe, not out.

That's a pretty big reach to try and excuse George's dumb idea being handwaved away. Sounds like something straight out of a wookiepedia discussion desu. The Jedi maintain a huge library of information, and are noticeably distressed when a part of the archive is erased.

I personally disliked them for making reviews with worse understanding of kids films, not just Star Wars, before and I know people who do too.

>Not realising that midichlorians were narratively neccessary as a means to demonstrate Anakin's role as the Chosen One and that the biological basis of the force had already been established in dialogue in the OT.

†ypical plinkett cucks

>the biological basis of the force had already been established in dialogue in the OT.
That's not what "Luminous beings, are we.. not this crude matter!" means.
Seriously, have you been diagnosed with any mental illnesses?

>Alex Jones
Make that under two and a half
youtube.com/watch?v=oKm4ueVuxpY

>That's not what "Luminous beings, are we.. not this crude matter!" means.
That’s what
>The Force is strong in my family, my father had it, I have it, my sister has it. You have that power too.
Means

>Anakin is the chosen one!
>Why?
>Because he has over 20,000 Midichlorians and even Yoda doesn't have that many!

Jesus Christ. You really can't find a better way to demonstrate how Anakin could be the chosen one?

Attached: Yoda I sleep.png (351x379, 239K)

ITT: Reasonable people posting well-thought arguments about the prequels and Lucas' merit in the originals, only to be dismissed by some plebeians who took RLM reviews seriously and can't even build an argument of their own.

Example of a typical argument that brainlets take from RLM reviews:
>muh midichlorians break my Star Wars headcanon because the force is supposed to be this spiritual thing that anyone can master

First, midichlorians are only mentioned like two times in the entire prequel trilogy, and the interpretation of how they interact with the force is left quite open-ended. Which leads me to believe anyone complaining about them didn't even think they were an issue before watching RLM's videos.

Second, it is established in the originals that the force is strong in the Skywalker family. It is also implied that not anyone can be trained in the Force, given how few force users there are, and how Vader and the Emperor think about training Luke or Leia. If they want to train more Sith, and anyone can be trained in the Force, why don't they just train stormtroopers to be force users? All of this implies that force sensitivity can be inherited, which leads to genes, which leads to biology.

In other words, midichlorians make perfect sense.

This is just one of the countless stupid arguments made by RLM that can be easily debunked.

Quigonn already had a feeling. All it did was confirm a suspicion he already had.

Attached: 35935605.jpg (500x370, 60K)

It was implicit before because Obi-wan training Anakin’s son instead of anyone else but it was explicit when Luke told Leia that she has the force too because they’re siblings.

>not the video where he larps as sheev and talks about how woke revenge of the sith was
He was great before he started drinking the koolaid.

it goes even further than that, it's well established canon that the Sith species were very powerful in the force and were able to breed that power into slaves

That doesn't answer my question. That's how they establish Anakin as important, not because of a 'feeling', but because Qui-Gon sticks him with a needle and a computer tells him so.

>it's well established canon
You know they never once use the word sith in the original trilogy.
Vader is called a lord of the sith in the script, but that's literally it.

So, your argument is "Midicholorians are only mentioned like twice, therefore they're not a problem."

This is like saying that it is only mentioned once in Empire Strikes Back that Vader is Luke's father, and therefore this plot point can be ignored as well if you have a problem with it.

I'm sorry, but this is just the stupidest thing I have read all day, and I have been on Yea Forums since 9am.

Attack of clones hurts to watch, it’s so fucking ugly

you have to stop with that black and white think. it's "bad" in terms of a sequel to the star wars trilogy, like mike says in the ghostbusters plinkett, you can't remake thunder in a bottle easily. and that goes only in story or kino terms, but in technical the prequels achieved something never done before on this scale with CGI and big movies after that and today have similar and more amount of cgi in them, so you can say george changed the industry, which is more amazing actually than one of the best space adventure trilogy (in corporation with others)

and like the others said, in comparison to the soulless sequel trilogy so far, the prequels are more interesting now

They established him as important before due to Quigonn’s hunch and the virgin birth then they took a test to double check.

It can also be suggested that midichlorians are a scientistic concept that doesn’t really capture the deep spiritual essence of the force - only measuring some kind of shallow genetic capacity - and the idea is spoken by these Old Republic characters to demonstrate the soulless rot at the heart of the polity before Palpatine even begins his quest. Another masterstroke.

>So, your argument is "Midicholorians are only mentioned like twice, therefore they're not a problem."
>didn’t read the other parts
>addressing this it’s as Yea Forums
Not even the guy who wrote that but how long have you been on Yea Forums?

Heck, Anakin had more midichlorians than Yoda yet was prequels Anakin, especially as a kid, anywhere near Yoda’s level? Clearly there are numerous other factors.

>223 posts 46 unique IP's
He's literally arguing with himself. He does this.
Schizophrenia is a hell of a drug.

Why do you pretend it's good?

You know the funny thing about Anakin and Rey to me? Training. Qui-gonn was all about trying to get Anakin trained in EP1. Not once did they say Anakin was good to go without training. He’s more or less Jedi Jesus and they never deny for a millisecond that Anakin needs training. Does that make Rey Super Jedi Jesus or even more special snowflake than the Chosen One?

you know how else they could have done that?
>Obi Wan, I have a strong feeling about this child. I think he may be very important.
>Master, I don't feel anything
>anakin seemingly without knowing or thinking about it moves a tool across the room to his hand while reaching for it and working on his pod racer
>Okay master you may be onto something

training is too boring. no one wants to see meditation or listen to dialogue about eastern philsophy shit when you can whirl a camera around and shooting lasers

Not really because Rey only won against a guy who'd just been severely wounded.

you do realize that indicates there's probably 3-4 people arguing, right?

Whatever retarded shit george did Duel of the fucking Fates made this shit kino

Yoda's level of what? When you introduce a nebulous power-level suddenly you have to start asking that question. Throwing big rocks? Hopping around using force-jumps?

>anakin seemingly without knowing or thinking about it moves a tool across the room to his hand while reaching for it and working on his pod racer
Not that guy but I think that's too much. Even ESB Luke struggled to do that & he's force Jesus' son.

That wasn't even him, that was John Williams.

That's a million times worse. People would be complaining that Anakin can force move things without any training.

He's just here to stir shit and argue in bad-faith. This is a good discussion.

are we still pretending this shit wasnt amazing?

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 94K)

Not that guy but everything anakin is inferior. He got his ass wooped by dooku who had to run from yoda and I doubt even ep3 anakin can 1vs1 the emperor like yoda did.

Please, one of the first posts in this thread deflected negatively towards RLM as a scapegoat for why people dislike the prequels. You can see in this very thread, contrarians attacking the plinkett reviews as if that somehow makes the prequels good, as if some shit tier ancient video is the sole reason the phantom menace is widely regarded as garbage.

The force isn't about physical confrontation though. It's supposed to be above that. If Anakin is really only the chosen one because he can jump higher and beat up an 80 year old, don't you think that spoils the message?

It looks and sounds cool, so if that’s your bar for an amazing movie Disney has a whole MCU just for you

Attached: Kao Cen Darach and Satele Shan vs Lord Vindican and Malgus.webm (1000x562, 2.96M)

>People would be complaining that Anakin can force move things without any training

Didnt even bother me in TLJ with the broom faggot. A naturally strong force user would have the force and use it as a plaything without knowing what it was.

What bothers me is when some no name cunt goes from 0 to yoda in under a week without ever knowing or having used the force before

Luke gets trained over a road trip, and a long weekend in a swamp, so in and of itself a lack of training doesn't qualify you from becoming a jedi master.
The big difference is that the OT wasn't about back flips and light saber battles. Luke finally becomes a jedi, not by fighting Vader and the Emperor, but by throwing down his weapon and realizing that sometimes being a jedi isn't about being a badass with super powers.
In the prequels, the jedi weren't really about anything, phantom menace isn't so bad because Qui Gon and Obi Wan were still doing the knight errant thing, but as the movies go on and focus more on the apparatus of the jedi order it just becomes a big bag of fuck off.
You could argue that it's about the corruption of the jedi, but just like sheev clouding everyones mind with the dark side, it's a really lazy clunky fucking way to do it.

Attached: can't paddle the yaddle.jpg (674x505, 92K)

It would be fine too if she was treated with at least some incredulity or mystery. But literally everyone loves and trusts her on sight with no questions

The force was always some form of physical discipline, needing meditation and stuff. The jedi are all about peace and pacifism but the force itself does whatever it does. Even in wisdom and non-violent stuff the jedi like, yoda is lightyears ahead of anakin in everything.

>The big difference is that the OT wasn't about back flips and light saber battles.
This. It's about the wisdom of little Annie.

Attached: its a good trick.webm (1280x548, 1.8M)

this is something 12 yo me woud've thought was good

>and nothing beats the exhalation of the podracing (perhaps the greatest race in cinema history)

>when you try to be contrarian so hard that you forcefully erase Ben Hur from your memory

>Luke gets trained over a road trip, and a long weekend in a swamp
He had more than that. Not only was that swamp trip far more than a week, lasting as long as the travel time between the Falcon getting chased by Star Destroyers and moving with a broken hyperdrive to Cloud City, the time for Han and guys to change clothes and freshen up. We even see Luke go through many changes of clothes. His training lasted way longer. And then there's personal training between ESB & ROTJ.

Im still pissed off that my entire childhood I thought the clone wars were AGAINST some evil clone army.

Would have made more sense for Palpatine to be secretly pulling the strings on an undefeatable clone army which pushes the republic to give him full emergency powers and becomes authoritarian and then the empire.

Her having natural force powers would literally be the thing explaining the movie. It explains how shes able to beat off a group of guys because she uses the force not a fucking fighting stick, it explains why shes a loner because people fear her maybe not knowing what the force is and it fucknig explains how maybe she finds her way to luke because someone recognizes her potential and takes her to him (han).

Also a good plot device to have ben lose it cause how can the skywalker heir be outdone by some random no life causing a conflict in him.

Its so fucking easy to write this shit

>a long weekend in a swamp
We can see several levels of costume change on Luke, as well. The day he arrives, it's nightfall, and he eats with Yoda. We see portions of the next day. We see a change in costume indicating time passing. We then see Luke in the Tree. We see even more distress on the garments. We see Luke talking with Yoda about Han and Leia suffering. We see a change in outfit to a flight suit, and departure. Lots of time must have passed.

Yeah, that’s also what baffles me. All the pieces of a good, interesting plot are there. They’ve just done fuck all with it, in one movie going for the most boring route possible and in the next going for the stupidest route possible.

I hate you zoomer faggots so fucking much. You've got to try and distinguish yourself from everyone else to the extent that you are willing to delude yourselves that the prequels aren't pieces of shit. And sure, you can argue that they're better than nu-wards but being the tastiest turd in the batch doesn't mean you're suddenly not a turd.

You will never feel the goddamn disappointment I felt leaving that movie theater after a midnight showing of TPM as a 12 year old kid that grew up loving the OT.

Attached: 1558400210661.png (128x128, 9K)

>The force was always some form of physical discipline
>Judge me by my size, do you?
The entire point of yoda being a 3 ft tall green muppet that's 900 years old is that its NOT about the physical side. It's a spiritual connection to the universe.
The dark side is trying to use the force to bend it to your own will.
The fact that jedi use swords in a universe where everyone has high energy ranged weapons in their pocket enforces this even more.

And thats why star wars is officially ruined unless they admit their mistake and declare at the very least the sequels films non canon

Never gonna happen though so lets cast more niggers, faggots and womyn

The only example of non-violent stuff in the prequels is meditation. It's hard to gauge who is "better" at that. Yoda is certainly more knowledgeable, but that's age, not aptitude. So again the only way you can really say Yoda is above Anakin is because he fights better.

I'm being hyperbolic about the long weekend, but it still wasn't a shitload of training under anyone.
But they were also smart enough to space the timeline of the movies across years.
The last jedi starts immediately after TFA and revolves around a retarded ticking clock plot, which means you can't even handwave away spielbergian time compression.

They don’t have to, because there are fanboys out there who will pay hundreds of dollars just for the “privilege” of having a Star Wars experience

>Judge me by my size, do you?
>The entire point of yoda being a 3 ft tall green muppet that's 900 years old is that its NOT about the physical side. It's a spiritual connection to the universe.
The force is the physical side. Don't you remember them always describing it as an energy field or energy? Yoda demonstrates his ability by lifting luke's ship out when luke himself couldn't. The demonstrations were physical too.

i dont share the prequel hate because of the extended media (vidya/books/comics) i consumed as a kid and later on the animated show filling the holes in the blanks however i wont the deny the problems with the movies

in contrast to the sequels everything is shit and its obvious no one wrote a outline making shit up as they go along and shit is so bad it retroactively ruins the OT

They got their philosophy where yoda tells anakin to let go, we see yoda's abilities in all sorts of places. Yoda's wise and collected when anakin is rash and dashes into trouble. Yoda can deflect lighting easy when anakin gets shocked. Everything about yoda says he's wiser and more powerful than anakin as a force user.

That’s pretty much exactly why so many people defend the prequels. They aren’t necessarily attached to the movies. They’re defending an entire era of media

>So again the only way you can really say Yoda is above Anakin is because is a better Force User.
Fixed

This is now a KotOR thread.

Attached: KOTOR 1 & 2.jpg (752x423, 127K)

it's the most beautiful film every made

If you go by the logic that it's a video game.

Obi-Wan deflects lightning too. Anakin being rash is because he's manipulated by Sidious, something which also happens to Yoda. Albeit in a different way, because Sidious' designs for them are different.

Attached: Obi-wan_kenobi_36.jpg (800x571, 39K)

>If you go by the logic that it's a video game.
>entire reply chain was about how Yoda has less midis but is a better Force User than Anakin, implying there's more to force usage than midis
>also comparing deflecting with a lightsaber to bare hands

So Yoda's aptitude is supplanted by a tool, and yeah, the chain doesn't disprove what I'm saying. When you introduce a nebulous power-level system that is the excuse for why someone is a "Chosen one", it's bad writing. Maybe the point got lost in the clusterfuck of this thread.

>Yoda demonstrates his ability by lifting luke's ship out when luke himself couldn't.
>I don't believe it...
>That is why you fail...
It's a spiritual energy, and that luke's limits are mental, not physical.
Buddhist monks, especially in their early training, are worn the fuck out, and beat up, specifically to train the mind to ignore the physical body.
Yoda making luke go through boot camp wasn't about making him stronger so he could level up to the next tier of jedi perks.

Attached: yoda.gif (480x197, 1001K)

taking certain stills and shots maybe but it aged the worst out of all the movies including new ones

>So Yoda's aptitude is supplanted by a tool
>does what others do with a tool but bare handed
>When you introduce a nebulous power-level system
>user didn't read a single thing about what others said about Yoda with less midis being superior at using the Force
>mfw this lack of reading comprehension is exactly why user replied to with in the first place

>It's a spiritual energy, and that luke's limits are mental, not physical.
Completely wrong.
>The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
>Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.

See The Force itself is a material energy field and the material and spiritual echo each other. They have physical effects like dark siders having yellow eyes and Luke's weakness includes physical because he has to allow the Force to flow through him for Force Jumps and movements.

>Buddhist monks, especially in their early training, are worn the fuck out, and beat up, specifically to train the mind to ignore the physical body.
If you want to talk about Buddhism, meditation & such include physical disciplines too. Stuff like Tai-Chi include various physical motions for a reason. The physical world isn't completely divorced from non-physical in Buddhism. They teach to abandon earthly desires & attachments but that's a different matter.
>Yoda making luke go through boot camp wasn't about making him stronger so he could level up to the next tier of jedi perks.
For Obi-wan it was exactly that so Luke can kill Vader & the Emperor.

>turns out that extra information sold more toys meant for kids
WRONG
Phantom menace toys notoriously sat on the shelves
Do your research
Next question, please.

It's fucking awful

>wanted empire strikes back tone
and this is funny because empire strikes back is the least Star-warsy movie of them all.
It's this weird work with strange tonal shifts, a lot of it is filled with this faux-new age force bullshit, we get a shroom trip on dagobah and lots of inexplicable focus on machines talking to each other.
R2 is talking to the millenium falcon, R2 is talking to cloud city etc. Very odd. Ends with a bleak tone as well.
What im saying is: if you think empire strikes back is the greatest star wars movie then you don't like star wars.

At least explain WHY you like empire strikes back.

Attached: 7810.jpg (1000x541, 93K)

>Phantom menace toys notoriously sat on the shelves

>so Luke can kill Vader & the Emperor.
But he doesn't. That was literally the whole overarching arch of two entire trilogies.

What can Yoda do better than Anakin? Is your only metric that he can catch lightning? Because it's never expanded upon in the prequels. The whole argument is baseless.

lmao this shit is retarded but ok.
The MC of phantom menace is JAR JAR.
He has the arc, he grows as a character and gets his recognition at the end. Sorry to burst your bubble retard.

Anyway, the argument in the plinket video is stupid since it's badmouthing the Writing of the characters when its REDLETTERMEDIA who are the retards who can't even use their heads to describe Qui Gon Jinn for example.

Let me try, as brief as possible: Maverick, Focused, Religious, Orthodox, Abrasive, Arrogant, Stubborn.

That wasn't that hard, didn't have to think for more than 10 seconds.

Probably because you’re a fanboy defending a garbage movie and not a random person who isn’t weirdly invested in the franchise

why is the sun so big

based panaka vs the virigin gorillyega

>maverick
>orthodox

Attached: posting on 4chan.jpg (223x200, 13K)

that's because The Phantom Menace didn't have clones. Darth Maul and Naboo starfighters sold pretty well. Prequel toy collecting kicked off around 2002-2003 after Attack of the Clones and the Clone Wars micro series. Hasbro had a giant republic gunship toy by then. By 2005, we finally had a super-articulated clone trooper and the rest is history. The actual star wars collecting peak was 2006-2011 with mega popular lines like 30th anniversary and the legacy collection and even the animated-style clone wars line. The prequel figures themselves as well as all movie figures, peaked during the late 2000s/early 2010s vintage collection.

Attached: swi084-27.jpg (1339x1800, 346K)

>What can Yoda do better than Anakin?
>ENTIRE reply chain is about how midis aren't everything because of demonstrated cases of people with lesser midis being better Force Users tjan those with more

I lived through it.
I saw the toys getting discounted at Walmart with big yellow stickers in the clearance isle
You're gonna tell me how it was you little 13 year old twat?

>What can Yoda do better than Anakin?
He can fight better? He can lift heavier stuff with the Force? He's a better teacher with centuries of experience?
The other guy wasn't discussing that. He said that Kenobi wanted to train Luke to kill Sith, which seems accurate because Kenobi thought the Emperor already won when Luke said he can't commit patricide.

And I lived through that time too. I remember getting a toy lightsaber and having lightsaber duels with a friend who also did. Star Wars was practically THE brand. I saw friends with Lego Star Wars too. The game and actual Legos.

I've still got a b-1 battle droid on the STAP stored in my parent's attic.
Unfortunately the badass design of the battle droids was ruined with the first rogerroger.
Babyfigs will never understand what the hype was like for the phantom menace, and the subsequent stages of grief as you coped with the final outcome.

Qui gon sucked

You can also analyse the whole midichlorian situation in the way that shows the Jedi complacency. They've lost their touch, they rely on Equipment.
They rely on the Midichlorian Count instead of looking with their EYES, feeling with their heart.

People wanted Yoda to be the same character he was in the OT. But Lucas showed us how he became so spiritual: the entire order he was part of failed totally, miserably, and he was cast out and left to rot.
That Changes a man, and it changed Yoda.
Lucas showing us this transformation made nerds fucking seethe.
"why can't yoda be the same, why is he fighting, why is he so dumb, why midichlorians whyyy"
It all has a Point, you see.

>He can fight better and lift heavier stuff

Anakin literally kills Dooku a day later and lifts a platform off Obi-Wan. Yoda's aptitude for teaching is up in the air since everyone died.

>spiritual
midichlorians basically ruined the mysticism of the Force and introduced a fuck huge plothole. Several, in fact

>read an interview with Liam Neeson about his role in the new star wars movie before phantom menace was released
>he goes on talking about how his character is really complicated, and by the end of the movie has turned to the dark side
>have this in the back of my head the entire time I'm watching the movie in the theater
>W-when is this guy going to turn to the dark side... the movie's almost over
>gets killed
That was the day I learned to never trust the words of an irishman.

Well good then you know what I'm talking about.
I remember the fandom being ecstatic.
Huge fucking lines outside of theaters weeks in advance, full of people dressed up, some as Chewbacca (joke's one them, no wookies in the movie)
I remember the huge disappointment, the way people would say "it was... good" like they were trying to convince themselves that it was good and not a huge borefest.
Admittedly it had 2 good parts, the pod race and the Darth Maul fight, but other than that the pacing was all off and there was a lot of background shit that had no business being in the movie.

>midichlorians basically ruined the mysticism of the Force
See every post here

it's one of those things that the more you explain it the less interesting it becomes

yep. Orthodox in the sense that he Believes the OLD religion. He Believes in the TEXT. Jedi council have very wordly opposition to his plans with anakin.
>he's too old, he doesn't have the qualities
he goes against them at every step.
So yes, he's a maverick AND orthodox.

I lived through it too

ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=magnaguard vintage collection&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=3

the prequels were the most toyetic movies in the franchise. TPM definitely sold the least merch but once the articulation got a massive boost later on in the mid 2000s everything changed.

>Anakin literally kills Dooku a day later
>a day

Attached: What the fuck am I reading.gif (446x469, 808K)

>Anakin literally kills Dooku a day later and lifts a platform off Obi-Wan.
More like 3 years
>Yoda's aptitude for teaching is up in the air since everyone died.
He taught for centuries and taught Luke to

>it's one of those things that the more you explain it the less interesting it becomes
>an energy field between all living beings

use your eyes and READ.
The midichlorian situation is based entirely on you believing every single word of jedi dogma, when they, in the prequels, go against what we then hear in the OT.
You take this whole situation as George retconning what we know.
I see it as him expanding what jedi once believed. And contrasting this with what THEN came during the OT.
Can you get these two, conflicting ideas through your head?

Luke abandoned his training and we never see Anakin training anyone outside of non-canon EU stuff. So how can you compare it?

That's the problem of RLM. It's possible to do that. They just don't want you to think.

It was more vague in A New Hope, they just explain it further as the series goes along.
In the first movie it was considered a fucking religion by Imperial commanders

Attached: 1562814930650.png (498x633, 484K)

>Luke abandoned his training
What training he had saved his life

>Luke
His training managed to let him hold his own in ESB & ROTJ
>Anakin
More like the rest of the Order, including Count Dooku who left.

i can use my head, and do analysis of themes and plot
Even alex jones can do that. He sees the prequels as this giant conspiracy and fall of the republic into a dictatorship, and he's not wrong. He sees quality. People like you want to be entertained by flashing lights.

What’s funny is that midichlorians is no different an explaination than the magic in Harry Potter. It’s genetic and there are power levels to it but no one gives a fuck. 40k has psyker genes just fine too. Put it in Star Wars and everyone freaks out. Jedi/Sith and wizards are the same concept.

He got played around with in ESB, Vader never took him seriously for an instant and could have killed him whenever, but it wasn't what he wanted. In ROTJ he quite blatantly gets saved by Anakin through appealing to him.

>hold his own in ESB
Vader is playing with Luke, trying to draw out his anger to draw him over to the dark side.
He's saved when he remembers his training, that anger and aggression is the path to the dark side, and he gives up control and takes a leap of faith. He loses his hand as an object lesson about flirting with the dark side.

The Force a shit

Attached: Kreiareturnstomalacho.jpg (747x529, 31K)

Lol what fucking year were you born?

Luke could have been frozen in carbonite in the first few minutes of the fight but force-jumped out of the chamber. That's just one case.

She’s unironically my favorite SW character

because it is an ironically bad film that had some...... SOME interesting philosophical points made in the movie ,and the prequels generally, but are either not explored thoroughly enough to be satisfying.

Attached: Satele vs Malgus.webm (854x480, 2.38M)

He barely escapes out of reflex and tries to run away.
Seriously, watch the entire scene again. It's just vader goading him and slapping him around.
He lands ONE hit and vader starts throwing chunks of the building at luke just to demonstrate how far he is away from being able to beat him in a fight, but if he goes with vader he can train him to be even more powerful.
youtu.be/rgyitSlMtMY

10/10

True kino movie.

The only reason he managed to do those were because he was trained. He managed to evade getting frozen right at the start because he force-jumped. He then force-pulled his lightsaber to him with nowhere the difficulty as he had at the start of the film. His movements are improved because Yoda taught him to run through Dagobah and feel the Force flow through him. He's a farcry from what he'd be with 0 training.

Are you moving the goalposts again? You said he was holding his own.
Objectively false. Stop fucking arguing, its an anonymous image board, no one knows who the fuck you are. You've back pedaled over this stupid shit after getting btfo for 300 posts. You're objectively retarded.