>Frank Herbert’s Dune was written in the 1960s when certain types of coding were common for villainous characters. In the case of the Baron, there are two primary issues at hand, two characteristics that further argue his odiousness on the story’s behalf that are rightly seen as contentious today: the Baron is obese, and he is also queer.
>As always, the issue with the Baron Harkonnen being the only openly queer character in Dune can be solved the way this problem can always be solved when creating an adaptation: by making it clear that there are other queer people in this universe. (And I don’t just mean the other Harkonnens, who are often queer-coded as well.) In effect, none of the characters in Dune have to be straight, so this is an easy problem to tackle.
How to handle the baron harkonnen in a modern DUNE adaptation
What illiterate stupidity. The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer." As a result of his immorality he contracted horrifying diseases which both scarred him (he was attactive when younger) and forced him to "keep up appearances" and be even more sick (in both senses). That's a great villain storyline and it also happens to describe Cesare Borgia, who took to wearing elaborate masks after VD scarified his face.
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer."
Oh you naive fool.
Decadence is still a sin whether or not you think homosexuality itself is or not. He should still be a villain.
sounds like a faggot to me
lovely feyd
he's not queer he's a pedophile.
>What illiterate stupidity. The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer."
Have you seen pride parades?
My point is that there is no issue here, but these Stalinist idiots need every single story to either be censored or rewritten to conform to the moral panics of the moment.
He wasn't straight therefore he was LGBTQ and a precious cinnamon bun uwu
Drag and trans kids have started to erase the line.
>Bring me that young fellow we bought on Gamont, the one with the lovely eyes. Drug him well. I don't feel like wrestling.
when you make a character’s sexual orientation a component of that character’s inherent flaws you’re communicating to the reader that being gay is evil. The article is saying it’s a pretty easy fix if you have gay characters (not even major characters) that are not evil.
The person who wrote that article didn't read the book.
sounds like sodomite filth
AIDS
kills fags dead
>implying all inherent flaws are necessarily evil
Having a villain being born a cripple does not communicate to the reader that being a cripple is evil
>implying being gay is a flaw
It was for the baron as it fucked his body and mind.
>the baron is gay
>literally raped a woman and fathered a daughter
This
These people think getting STDs, including fucking HIV, are no big deal and liberating.
Herbert was one of those rational folks that sees it for what it is.
I’m fully aware of it. And it sucks because this guy sounds like an interesting character.
>none of the people have parents so everyone can be a buttfag
>implying it's not
When the hell will we get an all-queer, race-swapped progressive Dune adaptation? Is that so much to ask? Fuck this CIS bullshit I'm fucking sick and tired of these shitlords writing non-queer stories.
tldr. are they saying he should be fit and not a pedo?
>queer
he was a pedo wasn't he??? also why can't gay people be villains
>In effect, none of the characters in Dune have to be straight
>bloodlines and who breeds with whom is a big part of the story
my almonds are tired
>Cesare Borgia, who took to wearing elaborate masks after VD scarified his face.
dang he was my fav on the Borgias
No, they are saying the good guys should also be fat pedophiles
don't bring comrade staline into this, he was never pro gay. hell despite being sexually active himself he was prudish and did not like sexy girls on cigaret covers
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory,
So, queer then
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory
>not queer
same thing tho
homosexuals have a skewed worldview. to them everyone is secretly homosexual. they don't care about statistics and facts.
Well Skarsgard is playing him so he might not be obese. What they're saying is that they'd like to see another "queer" character or two who isn't an evil fuck so that the implicit message isn't that being queer is an essential component to his vile character. Which I think is fair but their missing the fact that it's his gluttony and decadence that make him an odious figure. Not simply that he's queer.
What do you want to bet she only saw the movie if not just a clip of Harkonnen caressing Thades face?
or you know, you assume that is not his sexual orientation that makes him evil but all those evil things he does. should gurney be gay so it can all balance out? everyone in dune is an asshole (as far as I recall) that terraforming doctor who got eaten was ok but he had a daughter that paul banged (if I recall correctly) so he is out. there are no not evil characters, paul himself causes more evil than the baron ever did, the philosophy of the story is the end justifies the means. meaning if ultimately it leads to a big positive move for humanity it does not matter how high the bodies are piled
It is, obviously, a genetic flaw
Man's nature is to continue his lineage and a woman's nature is to bear children
Dance around that all you want, but that's reality
No one else is homo because Herbert saw them as degenerates.
That's the whole point of Barron. He's late stage homo, which we're seeing now.
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer".
You're in for a rude awakening, if you don't see these terms as synonyms.
Did not baron also became a woman eventually, using possession?
more amusing than interesting
very nice
Btw, Frank hated his son for being homo.
Which is why it came across in his works.
it's a socially acceptable disease, just like being born without legs or arms
will we get fat characters to balance fatphobia of him being fat and evil?
This book was written by a literal boomer that thought that fags were, as a matter of fact, kid diddlers and evil
It's also about how a white saviour helps mudslimes rise up against their masters but also makes a huge point that by freeing them, the white savior is unable to imbue in them the morality to NOT murder billions of people, women and children included obviously
then why masturbate? why anal, or blowjobs etc. obviously sex for humans is more than just procreation
It would make absolutely NO sense if anyone on Arrakis or any member of the Atreides family and/or staff were fat
depends on if you view humans are as solo beings. people constantly say humans are social creatures so it would not be suppressing if like with ants some people have roles that are not connected to breeding. also I don't know much about genetics but would not there eventually be no gay people (by that logic)? yet regular people keep having gay kids
You do all that now, after having set up a society and ensured the continuation of your lineage
Also society especially today is in large part hedonistic, but make no mistake, in your primal senses your absolute #1 goals are survival and procreation
Liking good young boypussy does not make your queer. These so-called journalists should do their homework.
What do you have to say for yourself?
That's because people are degenerate fucks and we're now seeing Globohomo in action.
Many behaviors can be influenced via propaganda and peer pressure; so, if you can't turn people gay, you can get them to fuck assholes of women. Same shit in the end.
>born in 1920
>boomer
pre attack Atreides house could have a nice fat person who gets killed in the attack. They would just need to push back the attack and give them extra screen time in the beginning so we can see their goodness.
He definitely had issues with homosexuality but I think you can keep that characterization of the Baron while emphasizing it's not his orientation that makes him vile it's the dimensions and extremes he takes his base instincts to which render him evil. You need to make the story palatable for modern audiences and it doesn't actually change anything essential to the main themes of the story.
>he's not queer he's a pedophile.
But those are the same thing.
>also I don't know much about genetics but would not there eventually be no gay people (by that logic)? yet regular people keep having gay kids
Well, it's the same with the manufactoring error. There's just a percentage that's shitty, even if you do your best. The problem is, considering a defective product the same as a mint product.
Well maybe it's that humanity has kept evolving and now it's that after human society has no imminent danger to its collective existence, the genetic roles of many individuals is changing
Or it could be that there have passed not nearly enough years for gay people to just stop existing, especially if it's a random genetic flaw in the DNA, in which case they never would stop existing
Or of course it could be not only genetic, but also (or purely, why not) a societal thing
There is little evidence on any front so I'm open to anything and everything
Also obviously I have no issues whatsoever with gay people, but I do think they're going against what is (or at least was) the ultimate goal of the human species, therefore in some part incapacitated
It's not?
What does it say about the white savior when he is fine with his subjects running around with drums made of human skin?
>set up fat character for like 10 mins
>dies
>other fat character is a kiddy diddler and also a peak disformed 600lb life absolute unit
Yeah that'll play well
>it's not his orientation that makes him vile it's the dimensions and extremes he takes his base instincts to which render him evil
Dude, gays and trannies bitch about fucking BUFFALO BILL making them look bad. They cannot be satisfied.
point out to them that baron being gay means there are not girls constantly being raped on screen
look the checking is for them, not for me
it deserves to be acknowledged
That he was a pussy for not becoming a worm, obviously
Basically false-messiah, not willing for self-sacrifice
You can see that in book 1's end too, he just accepted he had to take the war path and didn't even try to do anything about it
>human society has no imminent danger to its collective existence
Oh user.
Well yeah, you can display him as an utter hedonistic homo predator, because that's what he is, and he suffers the consequences of it.
But, unless you add a "good" homo, you'll get everyone up in arms about it.
I dislike changing the intention of the author, so it should be kept as it is, art. If people today can't handle that art, then they're just faggots.
He's not wrong.
>Dude why are decadence and excess always portrayed in a BAD way???/
You can MAYBE spin this about western society but dear god you'd have to be absolutely foolish to think we're headed to total extinction
Especially when we're starting to populate other planets in 20-30 years (and the moon in 10 :)
>ultimate goal of the human species
I think you mean all life. some beings die after sex (or during it) or even before being born.
>Especially when we're starting to populate other planets in 20-30 years (and the moon in 10 :)
Citation needed.
k. pic says dubs and those are trips, plus dubs came right after your post so I assumed you were aiming for dubs and missed.
No, that user definitely made a point about how ie some ants never have a plan to procreate just so they can work serving the Queen and its chads all day, so on an individual level that wouldn't be true for them
Sure you could say about the ant species as a whole and you'd be 100% right, but I prefer to think in individual terms
>20-30 years (and the moon in 10
it won't even happen in our lifetime.
en.wikipedia.org
>TheUnited Statesspace administrationNASAhas requested an increase in the 2020 budget of $1.6 billion, in order to make another crewed mission to the Moon by 2024, followed by a sustained presence on the Moon by 2028.[12]
These Hollywood and MSM fuckers don't understand because they live that life, and they think they're good people, when they're not.
The people saying "that and queer are the same thing" are basically right, but not just cause "homos are predatory". The whole point of the LGBTQ movement is just to normalize that type of behaviour.
>Especially when we're starting to populate other planets in 20-30 years (and the moon in 10 :)
I know there is 0 fucking way to ever get back on this, but make a mental bet with me about this
Space colonies are a meme. I mean some research bases with telescopes and science shit sure
Man I can't wait for Villeneuve to both trigger and BTFO all these brainfried twitter keyboard warriors yet again.
it’s not gonna happen you have to be retarded to think were gonna have permanent population on the moon in ten years let alone mars in 20
Research bases where the personnel aren't allowed to procreate?
Surely you can't send a missile every sl often just to get them back to earth to give birth
>want citation
>get wikipedia
As a college professor, I'm actually offended.
humans also like to torture and kill each other
are we talking full colony or just 5 guys on the moon doing research? side not I care more about affordable stuff that will make me live longer and work less, whats your estimate on that?
>learns that his nephews are plotting against him
>"i know, they need to practice while they're young"
what a great fucking villain
the lynch baron was too fucking hammy, mcneice was perfect
Wikipedia has sources embedded
>aren't allowed to procreate?
I see you have not studied pregnancy in space.
>In effect, none of the characters in Dune have to be straight,
>affordable stuff that will make me live longer and work less
They sell condoms on every pharmacy
and? that was never viewed as a flaw
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer."
Have you ever actually seen a pride parade?
Indeed i lack that field of knowledge, but fail to see how a baby couldnt be born
Granted if raised in space it's gonna be fucked but the plumbing should still be good
>both the clickbait bait e-"journalists" and the self-righteous LARPing crusaders ITT haven't read the series
>DUNE thread, aka how ants procreate and why space is, as a matter of fact, the final frontier
Never change Yea Forums
2 things:
1. Not completely retarded students give me those links, and make it thus harder for me to spot how little they actually tried. But after a while you recognize even those links.
2. Wikipedia has ZERO value in academia. AS you know every imbecile can modify and change things there. If you're including wikipedia citations in your bibliography, you're just asking to fail and getting shit on during your review.
But bros I thought pedos were based like Michael Jackson and Kevin Spacey?! You guys were cheering about them before
Is procreation in space even desirable or healthy? Regardless having a kid or two at some lunar research station where the inhabitants are doing tours and will be coming back to earth isn't the same thing as populating the moon.
Of course, but do you actually expect a scientific paper on something NASA or Bezos said?
>In the case of the Baron, there are two primary issues at hand, two characteristics that further argue his odiousness on the story’s behalf that are rightly seen as contentious today: the Baron is obese, and he is also queer.
I'm not sure I understand the problem. The Baron is fat, disfigured, and gay because those are characteristics of evil people.
The Baron being a lecherous gay pedophile is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to #problematic things in the original six Dune books.
>Can't reproduce
>when you make a character’s sexual orientation a component of that character’s inherent flaws you’re communicating to the reader that being gay is evil.
yeah, well?
He is also white
Some gay dudes just hold hands and stuff, Harkonnon is turbo degenerate
just google it, 2 seconds should give you the answer you seek
>Of course, but do you actually expect a scientific paper on something NASA or Bezos said?
>on something NASA said
I actually expect a scientific paper from them. I know what you meant, but if you say stuff like that you need to back it up. And seeing wiki as a source, is just a big red flag to me.
fun fact, working ants are female.
businessinsider.com
What if the man has the hardware built and is saying that's what he's going to do with it?
Proper enough?
I had faith in wiki but it failed after I noticed the stuff they linked to was often just pop megs or internet "journalism"
Paul isn't supposed to be a good guy, Herbert wrote in the foreword to one edition that he meant for Paul to be related by readers to Muhammad because he wanted to make a clear point that Muhammad did bad things.
There's nothing to do. Just make him a fat faggot. It's not like fat faggots can't also be evil. Fuck this gay earth.
Depends what you search for and what field of expertise its in
If you search social sciences you might even get a paper but even that's not really a solid thing these days
I really can't remember where i found it and i swear i'll try to before this thread dies but i remember a paper that discredited at least 10 (and hundreds of others that took those 10 for granted) papers on a subject because of a small/biased sample
But I'm in CompEng and just get links to RFCs or math papers so I'm fine
*space Russian
The Baron wasn't so much queer as he was just the ultimate hedonist who was jaded by everything. His grossness of body was something he used to his advantage.
Not just Muhammad. Frank was critical of all messianic figures and the movements that crop up around them.
I skimmed the article, but I'm still not convinced. Rich people usually reach for immortality, and this seems like one of those attempts.
The thing is, these things are expensive, and there's not an immediate reward, only constant costs. In the case of space colonies, the costs are so extreme, that even big governments like the US would have trouble to greenlight a budget every year without fast rewards. The opposing party would use it constantly to debilitate you.
Also, Bezos had a big divorce. You lose the hunger for eternity and life after that.
Not only that, but academia prefers to cite "in-house". Which means, they want you to read articles and papers from fellow professors and Ph.D. students. Nothing wrong with that btw. You get better knowledge out of it, instead of reading a barebone summary, filled with bias or bullshit.
>harps about his obesity as well
This is so stupid. I recently red Children of Dune, and it’s explicitly explained why he’s an obese fuck (not a retcon like the article claims): he’s an evil hedonist who really only cares about worldly pleasures. Why is this a problem? Why the fuck can’t fatties admit that their gluttony and sloth are moral failings?
>that their gluttony and sloth are moral failings?
Post-modernism moral relativism.
All that was bad can now be good.
Base personnel is one thing. I doubt there will be any Metropolis on mars
Frank Herbert was a pretty much a homophobe but he at least tries to explore it in his writings honestly. The Baron is an archetypal "degenerate homosexual" but it's not played straight over the series the homosexuality is just evil. Sexuality is used as weapon and method of control by everyone over the course of the series and one of the main themes i how sexuality is a prime drive in humanity. In God-Emperor we perhaps see a vision of how Herbert felt himself in a changing world (was published in 1981) where the Duncan Idaho ghola is offended and confused by Leto II's assertion that all male armies are too predatory to be kept around with no external enemy and that armies tend towards homosexuality to form bonds during battle, hence the Fish Speakers. Interesting to note that although Duncan himself is horrified Leto II makes no value judgments and we don't exactly see a mass proliferation of sociopaths like the Baron.
Of course in other books we see further examples of Herbert's distaste like with the suicidal soldiers in the Dosadi Experiment, not to mention the estrangement of his gay son Bruce IRL. So while Herbert's views on the subject could considered "problematic" by today's over-sensitive PC culture it should absolutely be left in so that people can see that people are complex and just trying to understand the world, even when they have biases.
Baron Harkonnen in the 80s dune was unironically the most accurate portrayal of a homosexual in film.
There are so many "Yea Forums is one person" faggots on this board. Don't even care if this is bait.
fukin kino this better be in the movie
Mental illness is most definitely a flaw, no matter how much you fags try to normalize it.
>Dune
Dune is just a glib facsimile of Warhammer 40k. I mean, 'God Emperor of Mankind', what the fuck? GW should sue Frank HACKbert.
how about when adapting a story we respect the creator's ideas?
make your own fucking politically correct story, you talentless libtards.
>how about when adapting a story we respect the creator's ideas?
How about no.
If the guy's son doesn't even give a shit why should we?
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer."
These are the people that wave erect dicks in front of 5 year olds, they have no idea that there is a difference.
>you’re communicating to the reader that being gay is evil
You mean it's not?
Is that the same son who co-wrote all of the Dune prequels?
No.
This is why identity politics kills art. As if there aren't any queer villains. Uh, the guy from Apple? Hello? The guy from twitter?
I don't remember him being gay in the movie.
No, it was his second son, Bruce Herbert who was gay. Both were generally estranged from him though he got along better with Brian. Herbert's troubled interpersonal relationships make his writing more nuanced.
The Reverend Mother he raped is the one who used her Bene Gesserit abilities to make him fat and diseased - before that the Baron was a preening Adonis.
>Bruce
Maybe if you don't want your son to be gay don't name him one of the most stereotypical gay names
Imagine tongue kissing a child. Hot.
is brian’s fanfiction really considered canon though
>is brian’s fanfiction really considered canon though
Not by anyone who doesn't have organic brain damage.
Imagine trying to fit an entire fire hydrant in your ass and asking to be called normal.
Oh please nigger its 2019, everyone is doing the fire hydrant challenge.
Imagine adopting orphans just so you could fuck them.
>Cesare Borgia, who took to wearing elaborate masks after VD scarified his face.
Yeah, don't trust early renaissance gossip
Calling the Baron Harkonnen "queer" is a bit odd. He's explicitly depicted as a pedophile in the books and in Lynch's Dune. Like Walt Whitman, the more salient facet of his sexuality is the pedophilia, not his queerness. Why would you emphasize the latter and diminish the former? It just makes your cause look bad.
based and redpilled
Complexity and subtlety have been thrown away.
>The Baron was sexually degenerate and immorally predatory, not "queer."
youtube.com
I'm willing to bet the bitch who wrote this article has never read the source material and only understands Dune second-hand. Like she read it as a citation in an essay that was required reading for her Feminism In Modern Popular Fiction Literature class or something.
just some honest blokes havin a laugh
>He's explicitly depicted as a pedophile
You say that like it's a bad thing. Don't be pedophobic!
You're giving themzelf way too much credit.
fuck off Brian
Are the prequels worth reading? I finished God Emperor the other week, but I’m kind of burned out on them and taking a break. One thing I always hate is how you can really tell that Herbert didn’t really intend to do all this, and the last two were so different from the first two. I’ll finish Frank’s books, but I’m not so sure about his kid’s.
only frank, never touch Brians abominations, I know once you finish chapter house you'll be dying to know what was suppose to happen next, let your imagination do the work, do not let Brian
Queer is pedo now, bigot.