Who the fuck talks like this

Do you think this line could get me laid with women?

>its a writer thinks humans are special in anyway episode
>its a writer believes human consciousness is some kind of miracle, that is completely unrepeatable.

I do unironically, but mostly to my brother. Not really pessimist because I don't want him to go that way, but some cynical stuff.

Do you see yourself in him and Dr. House? And the Joker? Don't lie to us, user.

It's basic antinatalism that everybody mistakes for pessimism. who gives a fuck?

Absolutely based

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I want to see an intelligent and sensible refute to this. The only thing people against it do is get angry.

What's a nonreddit quote, seems to me anytime a character uses words with more than three syllables, people here get antsy

Attached: schop.png (500x190, 48K)

Very intelligent people who are also prone to pseudo-intellectual nihilism and being an ass to others

the iq of the average Yea Forums poster is abysmally low

he was trying to find a reason for him to join his daughter

I can refute it with a single picture (this one)

Bonus refutation: John 3:16

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shorter version: "i was born unattractive." these supposedly powerful insights don't come from a guy that has succeeded with women.

>white people all kill themselves off from oversocialization and nihilism like op's pic
>the world is inherited by east asians and turns into a fascist dystopia
i think this is the future in 200 years

It's a really nice thought but I don't have faith in it.

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what doesn't kill you either makes you stronger or it breaks you. he's the latter. he only formed that opinion about humans because he lost his kid and couldn't move on.

>people are terrible, yes even me
This is quintessential reddit and OPs pic.
>pseudo intellectual nonsense that the person saying doesn't even believe but thinks it makes them look smart
Also OP's pic
>life is a video game
>10 puns in a row
>that's xism

>antinatalism
I honestly believe that this is correct but I'm so paranoid that it's all a ploy to get people to not reproduce and turn away from god. I don't even know if I believe in god or not but he could be out there and some real sinister people might be pushing this as a way to hurt so many people if they fall for it. At the same time though it sounds so right that I can't break out of the mindset it gives you.

>Everything is evil. I mean, everything that is, is wicked; every existing thing is an evil; everything exists for a wicked end. Existence is a wickedness and is ordained for wickedness. Evil is the end, the final purpose, of the universe...The only good is nonbeing; the only really good thing is the thing that is not, things that are not things; all things are bad.
>- Giacomo
What's the deal with white guys?

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Do you wanna know how he got these scars?

Someone who practices speeches in their head like that.

How can you refute it?
>give a meaning to life
Which you would say is also meaningless.
It's a pointless thing to argue especially since it's not a real belief, just some shit people say for edge value.
If you truly believed it you would have roped already.

It doesn't matter if you don't even believe or care. God sacrificed his only son for you. You don't have to believe that honesty. I think God would have made actual proof if he wanted you to believe in him. Either way he still loves you, so I love you. You'll die either way, no stopping that. Just be happy and live your life full of positivity until then

Cowards exist user

in the end I think it's not so much about belief or what sounds good it's men not wanting to get fucked over. back when marriage and children meant marriage and children not divorce, alimony rape and child support rape, very few men would have doubted for a second about having kids.

*watches Neon Genesis Evangelion once*

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>we shouldn’t exist by Natural law
>natural law created us
imagine being this much of a brainlet that you can’t even be a proper nihilist.

why should we pay attention to their philosophy though? people that don't apply their beliefs to their lives can't be trusted to think rigorously.

If women didn't become self aware, society would be fine.

David Benatar doesn't have kids.

They can believe it, but they’re still cowards and have self preservation instincts regardless. Their own bodies disagree with their conclusion.

I'm not even against Christianity btw I don't know if my post made it seem like that. I think a lot of it is important and I've been considering actually joining a church for the sake of the structure and community but I don't actually believe any of it literally so I feel like an enormous fraud.

Oh they apply their beliefs, they are just not brave enough to take the final step that it leads too. Perhaps it's a naive belief that things will change.

That your own physical existence fights your will to not-exist seems to prove their point that existence is suffering.

Actually that's 100% what I did. Now I kinda sorta believe. Doesn't matter. They're solid people. You're better off joining something like Kiwanis or Rotary for job networking but church is great for wholesome fun

>who the fuck talks like this
Humanity is doomed as anything that becomes popular Is ruined because the average human being is a worthless illiterate fuck, remember to gatekeep your interests and never share with anyone the things your truly enjoy as humans will aways find a way to ruin It for you with their incompetence

I read a recent interview with Stephen Dorff, and I think Roland gave him a midlife crisis. He talked about how deeply the character resonated with him and it made him go out and buy a little cabin like Roland's just to enjoy the quiet. Also I guess his next role is gonna stay in a similar vein, so he's still in that headspace.

>good cannot exist without evil. You are not inherently good if you are incapable of being anything but. You are only as good as you choose to be, that’s why we’re free to choose at all. It is proof of virtue, and it is proof of evil. The answer is choice. You can never have any moral conviction without choice.

>headspace

>>pseudo intellectual nonsense that the person saying doesn't even believe but thinks it makes them look smart
I think you're just projecting there

Pondering the worth of life isn't an immediate walk into the guillotine.

I don't see what you're trying to refute, end of life is definite as far as we know, why not wait things out too see if they get better? Cowards assess situations, and try to see if it will affect them badly, they will mostly always come to the decision that it will. That's why they continue to live, because they are afraid that the risky decision will come out the worse.

That’s a pretty impressive non-sequitur.

>your body has evolved to not end itself in the face of death

>thus simply existing is suffering.

I agree with the idea that life is suffering, I just don’t agree with the logic or solution.

The problem is that the definition of "suffering" in this context is so vague that it basically boils down to "being conscious of not getting a thing you want"

It's a profoundly childish thing to proclaim that it is better to not exist than to ever not get what you want.

>americans try to talk philosophy
OH NO NO NO
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

That sounds like me. Once I hit my 30s I started yearning for the structure and community feel of joining a church. But I am frightened of making the wrong choice or feeling like a complete fraud. I want faith so badly, but I can't find it. I'm someone who actually sits and talks with evangelicals who come to my door...though I don't let them in my house. They have in no way inspired faith in me, and frankly, a lot of them are younger then me, yet insist on the ridiculous title of Elder so and so. A child labelling himself an elder at 25ish just turns me right off their religion. Plus, the whole Latter Day Saints thing is so retardedly unbelievable. Maybe I should follow my grandfather and be Anglican.

I feel like this has gradually become more of a problem as people have ironically become more "social" on the internet and more aware in general

it's only become more of a "problem" in the sense that the internet allows crazy people to find eachother, while they were isolated in past generations.

There has ALWAYS been those people who refuse to have kids because "why would you ever want to bring somebody into *THIS* world?????" but they were few and far between.

You'll begin to feel better about humanity when you realize that the vocal mobs of the internet are just the town idiots of the world who all found eachother.

>the vocal mobs of the internet are just the town idiots of the world who all found eachother.
i don't want to believe this but i think it's true

Why do these people hold such a large presence then? Why do these crazy people affect general opinion so much? Denying people have gained more sentience and independent views is idiotic. In reality the town idiots of the world were most people.

It also happens to be true. Basically, you're committing the "the adults are right" fallacy. This is not to say that children are smart or wise (of course they aren't), but as adults learn "the way that the world really works", they confuse an Is for an Ought.

They also believe that since they are disgusted by the impotent weakness of children, that the children are /wrong/. Well, no. A specific form of petulance is in fact good, inasmuch as it is /true/, regardless of the child's ability to effectuate his own will. In a sense, the child is /right/ to want the candy. The child at least knows what he wants. Adults are socialized to half-delude themselves on this head.

if you rightly define "idiot" as someone that lacks the social capacity to handle the ridiculously complicated modern world then most people are idiots. idiots pursuing online escapism that will inevitably make them more miserable.

>In a sense, the child is /right/ to want the candy. The child at least knows what he wants. Adults are socialized to half-delude themselves on this head.

How exactly does one rationalize that it is better to die than to not get a piece of candy?

I am happy for you that your intelligence and education prevent you from succumbing to formal participation in a religion, though as social animals, you are naturally inclined for socialization, and this lack is what pains you. Let me suggest to you that you can scratch this socialization-itch with other means.

It is better to be right than it is to belong.

>I want faith so badly, but I can't find it
iktf

Whoa... Really makes you think!

>It is better to be right than it is to belong.
what is better about it? people that belong are all happy, even if they're wrong.

-t. Satan

Most people are idiots, despite what media consume, they will take that for fact, without a second thought. Critical thought is severely lacking with the general population.

>want to have faith but don't know how
I'm here to help you.
I was atheist for 30 years before I came to believe.
Here is step 1 on your spiritual journey.
>1. Come to the realization and acknowledgement of an objective truth.

It's not about intelligence or education I don't know if this is a bait post or not. I just wouldn't feel right being around people who 100% believe in something when I don't, but I still get all the benefits anyway. You'd never be able to reveal your true self. Would be painful, especially if you get close to them because they wouldn't know the real you.

i disagree with your conflation of idiocy and capacity for critical thinkers. lots of happy, successful people can't critically think. probably most of them. and people that can't achieve the obvious virtues of success and happiness are idiots. ergo critical thought correlates with idiocy. this thought brought to you by tito's.

osamu dasai wanted to die all the time tho

He's not wrong, no matter how loudly the autistic children of Yea Forums want to scream "reddit"

then don't pretend to be something your're not
be yourself by yourself

>tell people that life is meaningless
>the person saying that doesn't kill themselves
>therefore they don't actually believe life is meaningless

Ok I defeated the argument what do I win?

Not the user you were talking to but I know what you mean. I grew up in church I was a bible thumper through and through until I went off to military school and saw the world for the first time. It almost literally blew my mind. I never really recovered my faith, I have tried to come back to church a few times but I just feel like a complete fraud. Like there was a moment when I first came back and I knew there was just something different about me. Everyone felt like aliens, I couldn't connect with them at all anymore. I don't know what I lost but now that it's gone I just can't be that person anymore.
It's a shitty feeling, thankfully I've kept a few school friends but I wish I had a greater community connection, that I think is the most tragic thing about modern society. The disconnect from your neighbors and locals.

>you want community? Have you tried being alone?

You should have stayed an atheist. Christians cannot produce empirical evidence for God, and for good reason. Religion is a socially accepted cult, there is no God.

Also, all these people would be happier if they had sex with attractive women and reproduced. The sole meaning of life is to continue your genetic line. “A chicken is just an egg’s way of making another egg.”

Life isnt complicated, people overthink it and overcomplicate it out of arrogance. They are too arrogant to realize that life is simple and think there must be some deeper meaning. It is all to overcome their obvious flaw, the lack of an ability to find a wife and produce children.

>have sex

>Christians cannot produce empirical evidence for God
What would you accept as evidence?

I would like to say to mr. Ligotti that he should

have sex

No, but might get you laid with a gaytheist

Rick Sanchez

consider the possibility that the thing you currently call your "true self" is in fact a social construct. Why would being true to yourself make you unhappy?

The most rational explanation is because the actions you would do as your ""true self"" are socially unacceptable, whether because taboo or illegal.

Therefore, the thought of being true to one's "self" causes discomfort either in the realization that the things we truly want are evil, or in the despair that we cannot achieve them without consequences.

We are products of a fallen world that has been corrupted before we were born, and thus your "true self" is not who God really created us to be.

If you havent yet, see also

You know what else's only objective is to reproduce itself as fast as possible? A virus.
If we can't use our unique ability of having found sentience to do something greater than just fuck endlessly until every corner of the planet is just us than what is the point? There are already way too many of us, humans only get dumber the more of us there are. We are at the end stages of the mouse utopia right now. If we don't take drastic steps there won't be anyone left to rebuild when it all collapses.

I actually have 2 children, and did not come to the realization of God until AFTER they were born.

The problem with trying to psychoanalyze people is that you end up making yourself look very stupid, very quickly.

Lucky for you that you're anonymous right now.

Anything accepted by the scientific community at large. Weird how an all powerful God hasnt made that happen yet. Also weird how miracles stopped showing up as soon as videocameras were invented. How come they could heal the sick thousands of years ago, but they can’t now in front of modern medicine and videocameras?

how strange

Denying someone's life also ensures they will not experience any of the joys of living.

wrong on multiple levels

>thinking consciousness is special

You think because our brain operates at a higher level, we are special beings?
A chimpanzee is self aware. A dog is self aware. Consciousness is not special or unique. Just because we are more intelligent, does not mean the final goal has changed.

>mouse utopia study

This is one of /pol/s favorite studies. Why do you think it is relevant to human civilization? I often see homosexuality cited as evidence that humanity is on the decline. Why then, does homosexuality present itself in numerous species, even ones that are still progressing/growing?

Bottom line, humans arent special. Thats my main point. “The meaning of life” debate arrises through shear arrogance and a denial of our simple, biological programming

The Yea Forums chemo quote

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what's wrong with not experiencing joy
do happy couple experiences joy 24/7? no?

no thats not my point. For reference, my parents are religious as well. They are still religious after having children. I understand you might be religious and have kids.

My point being, the meaning of life is to reproduce. Humans search for something deeper, but there is nothing there. At our core we are just biological beings after all.

Congrats on having kids though user it is an accomplishment.

Is there anything more cucked than desiring the extinction of your own species and decrying its existence? I mean, Christ these faggots are annoying
>existence leads to suffering
And also happiness, which all of these pseudos keep forgetting

being a /pol/tard wanting the extinction of only part of it

Im not that guy but what if my true self refuses to believe in anything without being presented with evidence?

I was raised catholic. I left the church because I was tired of pretending. Hordes of old people that claim they can “feel” God, and yet nothing came to me. I asked for evidence and recieved none, so I left. I haven’t gone back since

The entire series peaked at this moment and never again came close

Although it did introduce normies to pedi signs

>My point being, the meaning of life is to reproduce. Humans search for something deeper, but there is nothing there.
Absolutely false.
If the meaning of life is to reproduce, then there is no purpose to people who cannot reproduce.
Do you suggest we start killing people who are sterile?

/pol/tards make the most sense from a darwinist standpoint. they want to advance their genetic stock no matter how arbitrary it is. anti-/pol/ rationalists are a temporary anomaly that will get outbred in a few generations.

That's hatred of others, which is easy to understand. The men being quoted in this thread seem to despise themselves and all of humanity to an extent that I cant understand if they ever experienced just one instance of happiness and human goodness in their lives

Why is it always fucking retards who think they have everything figured out

Life is kind of cool IMO. I think that I'm going to ride this thing out and even maybe have some kids at some point.

Yea Forums in 45secs
youtube.com/watch?v=6EDBuSwb5WE

>fleeting moments justify lifetimes full of suffering and bad things
>implying that experiencing happiness and goodness doesn't bring smart people to realize how they are rare for the majority of humans

Huh, I was raised in a secular house, and am now seeking to be baptized into the catholic church. We're kind of like mirror opposites in that regard.

I guess the first thing I would ask is WHO are you seeking for evidence, and WHAT evidence did you ask to see?

God didn't ever speak to me until I started seeking the truth of the universe in other places, and began to realize that most people who claim the truth are full of shit.

Try asking GOD to show you the truth.
But be careful what you wish for, because the truth may not be pretty.

No not really. Im not a eugenist by any means. They can still contribute to human society. Imagine a sterile person who becomes a scientist, develops a vaccine, and saves millions of babies.

They can still contribute to the human race.

Who in their right minds would rather never exist at all than experience some joy along with some suffering? Even if 364 of your days were shit, why choose oblivion instead of enduring towards that one good day?

All things considered my life is fantastic but there are some real horrors out there. I haven't experienced any of it but I don't think the people that went through them are better off because they maybe had a day or two that were fun.

>have consciousness
>have to spend rest of your life realizing you will lose it and everything you are will just be no more
>every moment of joy or anything you like is just a reminder that you will one day be no more
sure I am glad I am on this ride which has nothingness as a destination

Very interesting user. I just havent stumbled upon anything that would lead me to God. I remember my mom was worried when I told her I was leaving the church, she told a priest and the priest told me to pray more.

>God didn't ever speak to me until I started seeking the truth of the universe in other places, and began to realize that most people who claim the truth are full of shit.

This might be true, but what makes you think religion is any different?

>who the fuck talks like this
And why do they only say this to white people

>Im not a eugenist by any means.
You said the meaning of life is to reproduce.
If a person is sterile, then they CANNOT reproduce (physically).
Even if you WERE a eugenicist, it wouldn't make sense to kill a sterile person, because their flawed genes could not be passed on.

Also, I'm glad you agree that people who do not reproduce still contribute to the benefit of society, but that supports the point that reproduction is not the only meaning of life

>why do they only say this to white people
literally no other race would even be able to comprehend this sort of thought. asians are the only ones smart enough but their insect programming blocks any introspection.

Is he still going to answer my prayers if I'm not baptized?

no, get fucked

People claim to hear the word of God all the time, some preach peace others war.

The only benefit for Jesus was that he was born amongst the poor under the thumb of Rome. He sold the most profitable merchandise anyone could find: "redemption"

"Believe in me and you will walk into paradise" - no suffering, no damnation, no cost other than your obedience.

"The ontological fallacy of expecting a light at the end of the tunnel, well, that's what the preacher sells, same as a shrink. See, the preacher, he encourages your capacity for illusion. Then he tells you it's a fucking virtue."

The result of being pampered and having every single thing handed to you, is it any wonder wh*toids only thrived under arranged marriages and now that women actually have the choice they’re flocking to masculine men who don’t cry about existence all day or shoot up their schools/work place when someone calls them a faggot?

Be no more? Everything humanity has done has contributed to successive generations. And on a personal level, your children and your influences on those around you will have direct impacts on the future. It is very easy to find meaning and persistency to your actions even in an atheist framework
Most of the population throughout human history have had awful lives overall, but they didn't committ mass suicide for a reason

For me, it definitely has something to do with education. I got a degree in history with a minor in philosophy (and I focused on existentialism), neither made me see religion as a positive solution, in a lot of cases anyway. Now I'm back in school studying biochem, just finished my first year. The fundamentals of life and how it works are pretty extreme, and I can understand why pure scientists can believe in a god. Its all so intricate. Quite spectacular coming from a formal liberal arts perspective. But humans themselves, they still disappoint and I can't get over that. And biochem doesn't explain everything. Maybe I should have gone whole hog into physics. But I doubt that would have provided the answers.

Call it selfish but what's the point if you can't experience it? It may be comforting for others to know that the world will go on without you and others will continue it but to me it just means that there will be new things and experiences I will never see or know.

>This might be true, but what makes you think religion is any different?
Well, God has revealed things to me that I would not think about for myself. So the only possibilities I see are that
1. this is the path toward spiritual enlightenment of truth
or
2. i'm losing my shit

Yeah, I'm not baptized and he answered mine.
People who are baptized at birth and are raised in the church kind of take it for granted, that baptism for adults is a rite of conversion.
The act of covering somebody with water is symbolic of death.
You have died as a child of sin but have awoken as a child of God.
You have died to lies but have awoken to truth.

Anything specific I should look at that will blow my mind? Or did you just mean in general for the entire subject?

People that are chafing under the oppression of living in hyper-reality

The plebeians of the past never thought like this because their lives were real, they were constantly under threat of dying from starvation, disease and sabre tooth tigers, we need more danger in our lives

interesting user. Well I guess I will keep my mind open then.

Most dialogue when you look at it in text makes you go "Who talks like this?". But this might be deceiving. I don't remember thinking this while I was watching TD. It requires a competent actor to pull it off and Matthew McConaughey did it.

Yeah I dont want to get too into semantics. I believe we can still act freely outside the meaning of life (I could cut off my dick, which is clearly not the meaning of life), but the “true” meaning is still reproduction.

But again I dont want to get too deep into semantics. Just becomes a pointless debate at that point.

>literally no other race would even be able to comprehend this sort of thought.
I'm a non-white and I perfectly understand it.

If you haven't already, take a class in introductory ethics.
You'll become familiar with a statement
>You cannot derive "ought" from "is"
Science will never satisfy your search for moral truth, because science CANNOT define moral truth.
The fields of science seek to discover the way that the universe *is*
The fields of philosophy, ethics, and religion seek to discover the way that the universe *ought* to be

I would call that quite selfish, yes. If more of humanity had held that same attitude, then your present life would be substantially worse than it is today. You may not even exist, considering the burdens of childbirth and rearing. Most people didn't share this view, though, which means that they did find meaning by investing in a better future and better opportunities for happiness for their descendants.

Not him but sterile people or people who cannot reproduce can still work and help provide for those who can. Bit like a drone.

me
youtube.com/watch?v=MyjDZhLTxk4

post 23andme

Reggie
Motherfucking
LeDeux

Which is kinda the point, you are just giving the same burden it was given to you to others.

Your entire worldview is incorrect.
Is that too semantic for you?

It's a bearable burden.

why should it be? nobody respects a donkey for carrying a burden absent any reward.

youtube.com/watch?v=JgBq7_LB4aM

But is it necessary? No one asked to be born and to be given it.

What kind of respect do you want?

>But is it necessary?
is what necessary?

You mean to say that there is another meaning of life, other than reproduction?

Do you have any evidence to back that up? Humans evolved for the sole purpose of passing along sperm. The beings that didnt, simply didnt survive. My worldview is based on this.

Rust is literally written to be, in-universe, a pretentious asshole. He gets called out for saying tryhardy up-his-own-ass stuff like this by Marty pretty often.

The reasonable explanation is that he masks his inner pain (alcoholism, losing his family, traumas like that) by putting on the mask of being an edgelord nihilist, when deep inside he doesn't actually feel that way, as is shown in the S1 finale.

Not him but this may be interesting. mainly the part about deploying the instruments of awareness in an effort for the observer/consciousness that lights up all things to discover evidence for itself outside of its self, if that makes sense. youtube.com/watch?v=P14cRV-m6ZY

It's not even his quote it's from some Antinatalist guy

Anything that's about improving yourself in order to become successful instead of blaming others for your dissatisfaction with life, and encouraging traditional values is non-reddit.

Intelligent people who realize it's wrong to inflict existence (and death) on another person for selfish needs (loneliness, vanity) and have opted out of reproduction.

Humanity requires a certain amount of stupidity to keep running. That's why dumb people breed more and animals don't get smarter beyond their little niche. The smart ones weed themselves out by choice.

Reproduction is not an end, it is a means to an end

Yeah, you get the same general burdens in life, and you also get the same general joys. And each generation's work contributes to making the next generation's life less burdensome and more joyous. There are obvious exceptions to this, but it is the trend of human history. So, if we establish that human life holds good and meaning, then who would choose oblivion just to avoid pain? The answer is obvious: those who's pain is extreme to the point of overshadowing all good and being unbearable. Those people are the suicides, and they are rare for a reason. Even for them, all you have to do is listen to those like the Golden Gate jumper survivors to know many of them regret choosing death to life, and that such extreme pain is often temporary.

Is that what this place is all about? Self improvement? Nuclear family and a white picket fence?

what are you about?
what exactly do you do?

Unironically read the Quran bros. Disassociate it from Arabs and all that shit and read it as a standalone.
The Gospel of Jesus has been stitched and cut up beyond recognition by ""religious"" politicians, but it's still there in the Quran.

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>Intelligent people who realize it's wrong to inflict existence (and death) on another person for selfish needs (loneliness, vanity) and have opted out of reproduction.
If your parents held the same view, then you wouldn't exist right now. Would you prefer not existing? And if the answer is yes, then why haven't you killed yourself and accomplished that goal already? You recognize the benefits of being alive by virtue of continuing to live, and yet you simultaneously argue that allowing another life to be created would be immoral?

Abraham had two sons.
One son, Isaac, was given him as a miracle from God, because he was born when he and his wife were 90 years old.

The other son, Ishmael, was born from a whore.

I wonder which son God wants us to follow....

Attached: Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.jpg (225x225, 10K)

Killing yourself is really scary man

why stop? we are serving the ultimate goal, contributing to entropy and even accelerating it even by an infinitesimal amount.

>And if the answer is yes, then why haven't you killed yourself and accomplished that goal already?
Because life is addicting. If I never existed I wouldn't know it but since I do I know it and know what I would lose. It's not a virtue it's just weakness.

>since I do I know it and know what I would lose
but you're the one saying the thing you're losing is more suffering.

>Christians cannot produce empirical evidence for God
Zoomer who doesn't know shit about theology spotted.
How can there be evidence of something that is detached from everything in existence? How can you observe something that is outside of your 'bubble' or 'set'?
The smallest undeniable proof of existence of God would completely render free will to be pointless, that is why there is no and there will never be a direct evidence of God.
This is babbys theology by the way but somehow Christianity fails to communicate it.

Islam is not ethnic-centric like Judaism retard. That's why it doesn't have a single culture, ethnicity, geography etc. It doesn't even have a symbol.
The fact that Muhammad was an Arab has zero religious significance.

>and know what I would lose
And that's the key phrase. You know that there are good things in the world. You there that there are good experiences to be had, and you know that there is a positive and worthwhile side to humanity. You don't want to lose that, so you live on in spite of hardship and sadness. Those are the things that make life worthwhile. The harsher aspects of living do not invalidate them. Your continued existence is proof enough of that
>The smallest undeniable proof of existence of God would completely render free will to be pointless, that is why there is no and there will never be a direct evidence of God.
This is a major point of The Brothers Karamazov, which is very mainstream, so it's interesting that Christians don't argue that point more often in religious debates

Dude looks like an incel

> 1Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”
>8 Now to the unmarried a and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.
There's nothing unbiblical about not having children; Paul even recommends it in 1 Cor.
Antinatalism cannot be refuted without restoring to social stigma.

God bless you user

Well lets get into evidence for Jesus.
Besides Tacitus' emotional comments on Nero, he is thought to source all of his comments based on Roman annals. That such a movement existed within his life (58-120AD) that made a harsh claim to a Roman governor and is treated as fact is best explained by historicity of the man.

Beyond this we do have Josephus' writings. The only alteration in regards to Jesus is assuming he believed the divinity of Christ. Origen quotes Josephus before alterations happened and the whole "james brother of jesus" and his baptism segments are irrevocably true and have been reviewed and confirmed by non-christian academics time and time again.

Else, we have:
- Pre-Pauline hymns of Jesus resurrection (1 Corinthians 15) that date from weeks to months after the death of Jesus within the same year
- Pre-Pauline hymns of Jesus as God (Philippians 2)
- Peter's speech in Acts 2
- Paul's conversation with James the brother of Jesus and Peter in Galatians
- Pre-Markan Narrative of the resurrection
- Mark's preservation of Jesus Aramaism
- Mark's preservation of Peter's embarrassments presupposes Jesus existence
- Multiple attestation of the sermon on the mount and of John the Baptist
- Suetonius mentions Christ having instigated the Jews against the Roman

You're not going to find hardly any professional historians who dispute the existence of Jesus. Bart Ehrman, who is known for being extremely critical of Christianity, only notes two people in relevant fields becoming notable for such a position. It's not a tenable position in modern historian circles. It's like trying to argue that Hannibal or Boudicca or Alexander didn't exist.

Historicity is probability based and there is no better understanding of the coming of Christianity than the historicity of Jesus.

When did I say anything about ethnicity?
I said that Isaac was born of God and Ishmael was born of a whore.

He isn’t wrong but I hold out for hope. Just dying makes less sense than living for a bit, maybe there’s something else.

I'm convinced antinatalists are just incels who think they're more intelligent than they really are.

>I'm convinced antinatalists are just incels who think they're more intelligent than they really are.

They're invariably pseudo-intellectuals, but maybe not all incels.
Some are communists.
Some are anprims or environmentalists who see us as a blight on nature.

>having empathy makes you an incel now

It's not empathy, it's full blown fox and grapes. They're ugly incels who can't have sex, and rather than address that they think "hey, if there were no more people there wouldn't be any more fucking losers".

They literally push for the destruction of the only known sentient beings in the universe because they're unable to get any pussy. If they weren't such cowards they would be the kind of incels shooting up sorority houses.

>Beyond this we do have Josephus' writings.
Josephus is a highly suspect character who authored several other massive and otherwise uncorroborated historical dramas which manage to weave the existence of judaism into relevant historical moments of other great principalities besides rome, namely egypt and the alexandrian dynasties.

An edgy person who uses misanthropy and cynicism to cope with the unjust death of his daughter.

never made anyone happy either

gonna say it

a lazy-minded edgelord

you can't guarantee kids will have a good life
too many variables, I honestly don't know how people with a moral code can have kids without worries

Diseases, accidents, who the fucks knows what, no way to guarantee the kid is going to be right in the head and doesn't hate life. You can be the best parent in the world and still end up with a son who wishes he was never born. People should seriously think a lot before having kids.

Stolen from peter zapffes last messiah
It’s a must read

>literal neo con ben shapiro tier bullshit
Figures.

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>you can't guarantee kids will have a good life

You absolutely can. You can instill them with the attitude to always look on the bright side and make the most of a shitty situation. This will make them not only a good person but be able to find happiness no matter what going on.

The best way to ensure you child never finds happiness is to not have children.

Incels don't understand this though, as they're not only coward, they're bad people.

>Some are anprims or environmentalists who see us as a blight on nature.
yeah, who could ever come to that conclusion?

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I'm going to die anyway so I might as well make the best of what I have until it happens. And it could happen tomorrow. That's the thing about death.

Just because I've enjoyed pleasure it doesn't mean I can't think it's wrong to be the kind of thing that is a slave to pleasure and to not perpetuate it.

Also, it's not right to compound a wrong and it would be wrong to inflict suffering of those who depend on me or who will have to clean up the mess of a suicide.

Does this actually get said in the show? I might have to reconsider watching this.

There is no way to guarantee that any aspect of existence will be good. Should we all just kill ourselves? Should you specifically kill yourself because that level of control over reality is simply not possible to possess? People who use nihilism as an argument against living who have not also already killed themselves have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.

Nature is literally ours to do what we will with. It's the benefit of being the most intelligent species.

Will to power, you hippy faggot.

then why did Jesus come down and perform miracles? Your own religious text contradicts every single thing you just said.

Based and breadpilled

I am not against living once you are born, I am just dubious about making kids.

Wanting to destroy your own environment in exchange for imperfectly constructed artificially 'safe' luxuries is actually an unwitting surrender of your power to the industrial systems which you are feeding to provide you with that wealth.

It doesn't mean much when Marty calls him out on shit since he's portrayed as a blatant hypocrite.

Well shit, Rust. That just sounds terrible.

The argument against living before you are born is exactly the same as after. If you think the argument is insufficient to justify an immediate suicide then you should acknowledge that any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion about their own lives, assuming you trust your own reasoning to begin with. If you do, then your kids will want to live once they are born as much as you do.

>let's destroy the thing on which our existence is dependent
people like you should honestly be shot and ground into fertiliser

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you're starting to remind of those girls on Twitter who tell people with opinions they don't like to kill themselves.

Then you've never really thought about it properly. Think about this, because the claim tends to slip past us unnoticed because we have heard it so often that we no longer see what it amounts to. I mean the claim to forgive sins: any sins. Now unless the speaker is God, this is really so preposterous as to be comic. We can all understand how a man forgives offences against himself. You tread on my toe and I forgive you, you steal my money and I forgive you. But what should we make of a man, himself unrobbed and untrodden on, who announced that he forgave you for treading on other men's toes and stealing other men's money? Asinine fatuity is the kindest description we should give of his conduct. Yet this is what Jesus did. He told people that their sins were forgiven, and never waited to consult all the other people whom their sins had undoubtedly injured. He unhesitatingly behaved as if Hewas the party chiefly concerned, the person chiefly offended in all offences.

This makes sense only if He really was the God whose laws are broken andwhose love is wounded in every sin. In the mouth of any speaker who is notGod, these words would imply what I can only regard as a silliness and conceitunrivalled by any other character in history.

Yet (and this is the strange, significant thing) even His enemies, when they read the Gospels, do not usually get the impression of silliness and conceit. Still less do unprejudiced readers. Christ says that He is "humble and meek" and we believe Him; not noticing that, if He were merely a man, humility and meekness are the very last characteristics we could attribute to some of His sayings.

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would notbe a great moral teacher. He would be a lunatic.

Reshaping it to suit our needs better is the literal right of the apex species. Cry more hippy faggots.

Nice ad hominem, thank you for your concession.

>I'm going to die anyway so I might as well make the best of what I have until it happens.
If living was such a suffering hellhole of an existence that bringing another life into it is immoral, then this doesn't make sense. If the bad outweighs the good, then you should logically choose death at the earliest opportunity. Again, you haven't done so because you recognize and appreciate what makes life worth living, even though you're stubbornly denying it
>Just because I've enjoyed pleasure it doesn't mean I can't think it's wrong to be the kind of thing that is a slave to pleasure and to not perpetuate it.
The way you're using "pleasure" makes it the wrong term for this unless are living a purely hedonistic and selfish life, which few people do. You have family, don't you? Friends? At the bare minimum, expressions of good human qualities that you observe or experience? Fuck, just browsing Yea Forums will give you that every once in a while. These are not things that you are "a slave to" out of physical addiction or selfishness.

Ackshully he said that we should forgive each other's sins in order to be forgiven for our own. You should read closer.

Prophets and miracles were used as definitive proof when there wasn't any. The miracles were only revealed to groups of people and we're not global. People who witnessed the miracles consistently became devout worshippers of God.
Additionally, due to lack of technology the miracles were impossible to document for future generations.
According to Islam, there wasn't and won't be any major miracles after the death of Muhammad, and until day of judgment.
Instead of miracles and prophets, God left us with the Quran, a robustly documented word of God that is accessible to everyone who seeks it. (For people who can't access it for some reason, they will be judged accordingly).

Ok let me clarify a bit. You are claiming that irrefutable evidence of God would ruin the point of free will.

If that is true, why did Jesus perform miracles such as the 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread? Isn’t this, at least for the people in the crowd that day, irrefutable evidence of God?

>Reshaping it to suit our needs
aka destroying it. die

>literal right
I'm not sure even you fully understand the words that you're typing.

Good thing edgy lost its sting

meaning is also a human illusion, right up there with pleasure and pain.

A poisoned environment which requires increasingly complex and cost prohibitive methodologies in order to derive the same exact value as before is not suiting anybody needs better. There once were pristine water sources on this planet, no longer. There once were vast and unspoiled natural reservoirs of healthy game, no longer.

And I'm saying that Ishmael didn't inherit Islam because Muhammad was his descendant. The heritage of Muhammad is irrelevant.

Illusion is something that is not real. The pain and pleasure have clear causes.

based

There are people like that in real life who talk like this, it's not actual off the cuff talking, it's rehearsed speech that they wrote out before but play it as off the cuff

I am literally going to go into the public library on my way to work tomorrow, go to the bathroom, and turn every fucking tap on to full and then walk out and waste a shit ton of water and electricity. It won't be noticed for hours. Just because it will annoy hippy enviro-faggots like you.

This

>There once were pristine water sources on this planet, no longer. There once were vast and unspoiled natural reservoirs of healthy game, no longer.
I prefer roads and fibre broadband to water (which I can buy from any shop in a nice, convenient, and non-bio degradable bottle for a few cents) and fucking deer running around. Faggot.

I'm the original guy who you asked the question, heres my answer:

>people try to tell you that you are retarded
>oh yeah well how about I go out and act like a retard? That will really show you, won't it?

Sure will m8.

It does matter though. There would have been no religious wars or anything if it didn't. The so called god only exists as long as the religion is kept alive.

>I prefer roads and fibre broadband to water

After no more than 72 hours that would be factually incorrect.
>which I can buy from any shop in a nice, convenient, and non-bio degradable bottle for a few cents
Enjoy your xenoestrogens.

>ITT: christcucks, mudslimes, and /pol/tards all screeching, not a single decent response because there is no response

Antinatalism is the final redpill.

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I'm too an unironic centrist with a wicked sense of humor.

Antinatalists are just incels with delusions of grandeur

It's not an adhom, its asking you to live up to your philosophy.

Nobody takes nihilism seriously, because it's literally nothing. Every response is just rampant reductionism. They don't have to think, because their belief is in nothing and nothingness. It's just pseudo-intellectualism for someone that is too lazy to actually think.

I'm an antinatalist and I've had sex though.

>Bro the world is overpopulated we shouldn't have any more children!
>Sent via my iPad while eating a double McRoyal in my air conditioned room

You are thinking in black and white terms. For you, it's either love life or kill yourself. For some reason, you can't grasp other possible choices.

The word for that is FALSE DICHOTOMY.

OP BTFO and will hopefully see the light

Exception, not the rule.

What are the other possible choices? Being a living contradiction?

The Reddit Virgin
>Feels guilt for being alive
>We should just stop reproducing lol
>Let me overcomplicate a simple thought for extra karma

4chad quote:
>Understands the burden of being alive, but sees it as a challenge
>Doesn't advocate for some pussy self-extinction philosophy
>Realizes that human consciousness is PART of nature, not separate from it, having necessarily evolved from it

But its true, niggers should stop reproducing.

No, that's what I was asking YOU to do, because you are the one who is premising their argument on the claim that life is not worth living, yet apparently refusing to elect for death over their own life. I guess we can ad tu quoque to your list of intellectual misdeeds.

If you were really committed to antinatalism you would kill as many people as possible and then yourself. Antinatalism is just an edgelord philosophy for maladjusted 20something white males.

fbi plz go

Except I wouldn't because the amount of people I could kill in the best circimstances would be instantly replace by new babies born in a matter of seconds. Same with killing myself.

Thomas Ligotti

Why don't people that say such things stop thinking/breathing/breeding? They're not interested in hurting themselves, they're miserable people that want to drag others down into their pit of despondency. If they were to convince all 7 billion people to drink their proverbial cool-aid, they would be the last to drink.

Rust saw an aspect of humanity (devil worshipping child rapists who murder their victims) he could have done something to stymie or correct. He had both the skills and equipment and information to kill a high ranking member of this cult and make the rest of the world aware of it. He did not because he values his existance far more than he claims. He is going through an existential crisis, which could be treated with proper medications or spiritual healing.

so its okay for God to take away the free will of the people in the crowd that day? Why the selectivity?

lmao what a copout

So you view the extinction of the human race as the only satisfactory end to your philosophy? What value would you derive from humanity's extinction?

>same with killing myself
Doesn't mean you shouldnt though lmao

I'm not introducing a false dichotomy in the slightest. I'm posing the question that your "reproduction is immoral" stance begs: how can someone believe that and still choose to continue living? If the bad outweighs the good to the extent that bringing another person into this world is wrong, then how come you're still finding enough good to persist?

no more niggers

quick aside here lads but this entire thread is guality go ahead and call me a fag

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What is the other conclusion for an anti-natalist philosophy? Honestly, anti-natalists are about as dumb as flat-earthers. Their very existence is proof of how wrong they are.

I don't know but it sounds like some Reddit-tier Anti-Christian garbage.

Fallacy, the extinction of human beings would not effect niggers in the slightest.

heh, see what you did there user

Love how angry antinatalism makes the vast majority of people, even so called hardened Yea Forums edgelords. Communism and nazism both are babby-tier in terms of making people SEETH

>no no no YOU CAN'T BE SERIES PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE CHILDREN!!!! THE SPECIES HAS TO CONTINUE!!!!! IT'S LIKE NATURE BRO GOD SAID SO!!!

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Have you ever considered having sex and children? If not, nobody will care when you're gone.

Feel free to think you're above Existence. Once you die, nobody will agree with you, they'll just forget you ever were

you're a fag

It is amazing. I've never been told to kill myself as much as tonight.

This may surprise you but after a few generations, nobody cares about most people after they are gone, and anything they've accomplished has been effaced by other people's choices.

If you don't want to live and find no value in life, then why not? By your own admission, you should kill yourself. Save the resources you'll be draining for someone who values their life.

>"Just stop having kids bro, mankind is the worst animal and stuff. The universe is like a cycle or something and we should all go extinct because it's like not worth it man."

This is what that quote sounds like to me: Whiny jewspeak.

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The only people who preach antinatalism are either genetic dead ends or sociopathic liars. Both types are contemptible.

You can think of it this way. Bringing another person into the world is like taking a second turn on a fair-ground ride.

You can be half-way through the ride and realize you don't want to do it again, but not enough that you will jump off. There's a range in there.

FALSE DICHOTOMY

see

No shit, but you care. If you had kids, you'd care about them and their offspring. Sure, they won't care just like you didn't, but that doesn't matter. Your genes live on, the human race expands and learns and grows and you were a part of it.

Dying without kids is the ultimate cuckold. You lived and died at others expense. You were just a footnote in some other gene pools life. How fucking pathetic

It's another episode of
>reddit claims their personal experiences are everyone's experiences

Fuck off back to >>>/reddit/ where you came from. Even Yea Forums doesn't put up with your pseudointellectual garbage.

I wish all these self proclaimed chads would leave Yea Forums and give it back to us.

Nihilism is great, occultism is even better

>punished foe eternity for at best 90 years of life on Earth
OH NO NO NO NO
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
Christcucks think this is fair and makes sense.
>b-b-ut is God's Will! How dare you question it?!
Cuck mentality, cuck religion.

It's an interesting question. I can't say for sure that the free will of those people was taken away, but it probably was. It's not like it was a sacrifice either, those people are ensured a place in heaven for their devotion. But why did God do it in such a way? I do not know.
What matters really is the collective free will of the human race, it is after all the only reason we exist. In the Quran, the archangels themselves ask God why he created us and gave us free will, but God doesn't really give an answer
"when your Lord said to the angels, 'Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.' They said, 'Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?' Allah said, 'Indeed, I know that which you do not know.'"

nice

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Family creates a direct impact on the future that can only be erased by the destruction of the entire bloodline. Even if your name only ever comes up in old family scrapbooks within a few generations, your presence will still be felt on the world. And do you have to be remembered forever to find meaning? Do you think anyone who isn't a household name is worth shit? You wouldn't have a computer to shitpost on without the countless nameless engineers who created that technology, or the millions who helped give those engineers the living conditions, knowledge, and tools to make their breakthroughs through thousands of years of effort
No, there is no range. Either life is worth living or it isn't. Either the good outweighs the bad or it doesn't. You can call this a false dichotomy if you'd like, but it is the reality of choosing life or death. If life's suffering overrules its happiness to the point that making another person experience life is cruel, then why are you still here? This is not a fairground ride. You can get off whenever you'd like. You can end this cruel existence at any point.

I hope you remember this while you are burning friend, it will surely show God and those pesky christians

This is why we need to bring back the inquisition.

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>Either the good outweighs the bad or it doesn't. You can call this a false dichotomy if you'd like, but it is the reality of choosing life or death. If life's suffering overrules its happiness to the point that making another person experience life is cruel, then why are you still here? This is not a fairground ride. You can get off whenever you'd like. You can end this cruel existence at any point.

This is the dumbest shit ever. It's pure sophistry in that it forces the person into an absolute this or that position without considering the fact that:
a) life is different for different people
b) life is an ever changing value depending on when you sample it
c) the value of life itself is also subjective

If you were to only sample lives within the gulags of Soviet Russia, sure, then life isn't worth living. But if you were to sample the life of a young girl who was just cured of cancer, then you'd have a completely different result. Not everyone is a unhappy degenerate like you.

>He judges God through human morals to deduce that his actions are 'unfair'
ishygddt

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>All Loving GOd
>FUCK YOU MORTAL! I AM GOING TO MAKE YOU SUFFER FOR ETERNITY! ETERNITY! MWHAHWHWAWHWAHWAH!
*tips fedora*

>Elder
Jehovah's Witnesses?

>Actions shouldn't have consequences
Hello plebbit

>Creates you from nothing (objectively the biggest favour that can be possibly made)
>Asks for relatively little (don't be degenerate and praise me/ pray for me through your life)
>Gives chance for forgiveness for literally almost any sin as long as you repent
>Gives you eternal happiness if you don't fuck up (second biggest favour that can be made)

>B-BUT God is cruel jealous megalomaniac R*ddit told me so!!

>a) life is different for different people
Obviously, and I brought up the extreme cases of suicides earlier. Everyone outside of suicides still find happiness through whatever suffering their current life gives them
>b) life is an ever changing value depending on when you sample it
Obviously, and I noted how the stories of suicide survivors like those that jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge reveal how the extreme suffering of suicides is often temporary
>c) the value of life itself is also subjective
And we've been arguing about the value of life the whole thread, so what's your point? And the rest of your post makes me think that you completely misinterpreted my post. I'm not the one arguing for nihilism

Yeah I just jumped in and didn't read the rest of the thread, my bad. These threads on Yea Forums annoy me and I hate how that cancer is spreading here.

>creates you because he can for no reason
>forces you to follow rules he decided
>makes you flawed so you have chances to fuck up
>he already knows if you will fuck up or not since he knows everything
>will make you suffer for eternity if you don't follow his rules (lol what a nice guy)
>thousands of sects which contradict each other
>you could literally suffer for eternity on technicality
>billions of people don't believe in him because they have a different religion and will suffer for eternity because of this
Whoa, what a great plan! Truly the work of an all knowing all powerful God

you have a very interesting take user, its one I havent heard before. I think we disagree but I appreciate the information. My pastors never brought up anything about irrefutable evidence vs free will

>>creates you because he can for no reason
Beneficial for you
>>forces you to follow rules he decided
Beneficial for you
>>makes you flawed so you have chances to fuck up
Thats the point of your existence
>>he already knows if you will fuck up or not since he knows everything
Irrelevant
>>will make you suffer for eternity if you don't follow his rules (lol what a nice guy)
If you fucked up that bad it's entirely your fault
>>thousands of sects which contradict each other
He gave you every chance to discern which ones are bullshit (through prophets, holy books, and logic)
>>you could literally suffer for eternity on technicality
False (per Islam)
>>billions of people don't believe in him because they have a different religion and will suffer for eternity because of this
False (per Islam). As long as you have faith in a single God and you're not a degenerate then you will eventually be rewarded. If you believe in polytheistic religion then you're not using your logic God gave you and thus will be rightfully punished.
>Whoa, what a great plan! Truly the work of an all knowing all powerful God
God's plan can't be judged as good or bad, as we don't even know what it is. God could've literally created us in hell and made us stay there for eternity, and still it wouldn't have made sense to call it a 'bad plan'.

Thing that make Yea Forums seeth
>vegans
>cyclists
>antinatalists

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>this time I'm sure they are just like me

Yep. Sense of having no cobtrol over self is a sign of mental illness.

>I think we should all stop having children and kill ourselves
>that's retarded
>LOL! Why do these incels get triggered so EASILY :^)