/got/

>Jon gets dany to agree on everything he wants
>She asks him for his input in everything and goes with what he says every time
>SHE'S TOO STRONG FOR HIM

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Looking back at the show it's weird seeing all the lines that seem to be written for the purpose of being stamped on merchandise and sold
>Break the wheel
>I drink and I know things
>If you want a queen, earn her

>strikes a deal with Tycho to refinance the watch
>fixes and refills the abandoned castles
>creates House Thenn
>installs a fucking greenhouse
>advises Stannis to get support from the mountain clans
D&D cut all of this so they had room for their Dorne story

Thanks user

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obligatory

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>their Dorne story

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Her smile and optimism, gone.

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The show, to the very end, turned Daenerys into a doormat for Jon, but also asked the audience to believe that she is too strong-willed for him. D&D didn't even bother to show the audience how this relationship wouldn't work. They didn't even care.

She's the mad kween bro

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The book versions of Tyrion and Varys are actively trying to cause chaos. The show versions of Tyrion and Varys side with the woman with fire-breathing dragons, and then act surprised and offended that said woman wants to use her fire-breathing dragons.

Book Tyrion especially literally wants nothing more than to cause Cersei pain, and if possible he wants to rape and kill her himself. Hearing him beg for Cersei's life over and over in the show was ridiculous.

>TFW you always thought young griff was pointless and introduced too late but not including him destroyed the show’s storyline

>have to create a forced conflict between Jon and Daenerys. They even named him fucking Aegon
>make Cersei appear as a serious threat to Daenerys when no one should be accepting her as queen
>Varys is now useless and his plans make no sense

Is there any way for this ending to work at all in the books?

They can't swim or freeze water.

Both characters got whitewashed *and* stupidwashed.

>She's too strong for him
>Cocks are important

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>Break the wheel
What did this even mean?

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>GRRM: What was his tax policy? How did he rule?
>D&D: SuBveRted ExspEcTatiONS, BIG BATTLES and CoOL TrAILER LiNeS

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>Arya got what she wanted, adventure to west of westeros
Oh yes, I remember how big a part of her story sailing west of Westeros was. Every night, she would whisper her list of names for the new lands she would discover. Exploration and an interest in geography are critical parts of her character.

The goblin didn't even use her face powers in last season

>I’m not a stark
This line ever make sense? This mopey prick’s mother was literally Ned’s sister

I remember defending fAegon right in these very threads from critics and pointing out in an old 2000s SSM that Martin hinted he always planned to include fAegon, something about how the babe had his head crushed so you can't really tell who it was. and now I'm vindicated. Feels good man

Fuck George for his ending though

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>D&D thought their "girl who couldn't count to 20" line was so good they used it twice in the same scene

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This always bothered me, too. He's literally half Stark, half Targaryen.

Maybe Jon Snow is too dumb to understand family lineage.

>This line ever make sense?
No, but D&D thought it sounded cool

Literally no. Characters too young, the world shouldn't accept a warg as king or some southern butch as Queen and all from one family, and too little time for believability

Hail Queen Sansa.

>23%

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>Dany dies
>Jon goes north of the wall
>Sansa rules the north
I could see all of that. But
>King Bran
Not a chance in hell, unless Preston's autistic theory about everything being a grand Children of the Forest mind control conspiracy is true.

Remember when he told Theon he's a stark and a Greyjoy just by virtue of being raised by Ned even though he has no Stark blood? Jon kind of forgot Ned raised him since he was a newborn and that he's the legitimate son of Ned's sister

And how is Drogon gonna become a city leveler in a few years when he'd have to be like 50 years old to get that big

>gets raped
>becomes smartest woman alive
What did they mean by this?

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>Danyfag
lol all of your opinions are discarded/irrelevant.

>t. Sansafag

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I am samefagging, but I just want to point out how absurd D&D's interpretation of Jon and Daenerys's relationship is.

Jon went to Dragonstone offering Daenerys nothing. He had no proof that White Walkers existed. He made no effort to make common ground by mentioning Maester Aemon. He didn't even ask Daenerys for dragonglass until after the fact, and that was through Tyrion. Jon went to Dragonstone, told Daenerys, "Fuck you, help me," and got everything he wanted. Daenerys not only helped him, but she turned him into one of her advisors. He got everything he wanted from her and then some. She gave him a dragon because she liked him so much. She didn't burn down the Red Keep because Jon said not to. She kept Jaime alive because Jon said to, and Jon wasn't even paying attention at the time.

How is the audience supposed to believe that Dany is wearing the pants in this relationship? D&D knew from at least 2013 how this relationship will end, but they did almost nothing to make it believable. Why does Jon act like a completely different person in season 8? Why is he disgusted with incest? Does he not realize that Starks practiced incest numerous times before and that his grandparents on his mother's side are cousins? Why doesn't Varys realize this? Because the plot can't happen if he does? If the plot can't happen if common sense is used, why not rewrite the plot? Why did D&D destroy their legacy to get to Star Wars? Hubris? Greed?

>show-only event
>also disingenuously fails to recognise sansa’s increasing political savviness, charm, and intellect even before the rape
What did Sansa-haters mean by this?

Bran will become hand(like Brynden), Rickon will be properly raised to be lord of winterfell in the future, and Jon will die or fuck off beyond the wall. This is the best way it could end.

Absolute monarchy where Dany brings the noble lords to heel via dragons

>when he'd have to be like 50 years old to get that big
Do we know how long it takes dragons to grow? Drogon won't have to be Balerion-sized to take down a city. In the books most of King's Landing is wooden buildings, all he really has to do is fly around starting fires, they'll spread, and the whole city will burn that way.

>Jon got what he wanted

Guy had to kill the woman he loved then basically got his ass ignored then exiled, to the place he has suffered countless traumas, for zero reason by his so called friends and family.

Jon got a raw deal.

>Why does Jon act like a completely different person in season 8? Why is he disgusted with incest?
Not only that, but nobody should actually be even bringing up this as incest, as westeros religions and customs only consider incest if it's between close related people.

George will ignore logic and have a horse sized dragon be a city leveler. He's going purely for results and the endgame here since he can't do a five year timeskip and even then the youngest dragons were at least a decade old for them to be any kind of threat. wasn't one of Rhaenyra's kids and their dragon shot down by guys on ships cause of how young his scales were?

>puts on a black dress once
>intrigue savviness
Sansafags are a joke

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>increasing political savviness, charm, and intellect
What? When does she show any of this?

Dany is a dumb “le gurl power!” dyke bitch with no emotions, skill, wit, intelligence, craftiness, charm, benevolence, literally anything which would make her even remotely redeeming, she utterly lacks. She’s an irrelevant ugly whore and was always doomed to become “mad” and randomly blow up things because le mad targ genes. Kill all Danyfags.

>invent facts about the Others
>complain that these lead to plotholes

Balerion was 94 and in the show Drogon is only like a few years old yet almost as big as him somehow. In the books drogon has a 20 foot wingspan which is tiny and he's 1 year old, and he can be killed by scorpions and even arrows. Doesn't make sense she can go around torching the entire city with him unless she sets off wildfire

triggered

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>Sansa is a dumb “le gurl power!” dyke bitch with no emotions, skill, wit, intelligence, craftiness, charm, benevolence, literally anything which would make her even remotely redeeming, she utterly lacks. She’s an irrelevant ugly whore

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There is nothing to prove Jon loves Dany in season 8. Anything he does or says can be explained by him trying to honor his oath to her as Queen or faking his feelings to have her army and dragons

I doubt George would ignore that, at worst drogon would set fire to some part of the city and that would ignite the caches of wildfire, which would actually level the city. The news would spread as Dany burning the city down.

TODAY I WILL REMEMBER THEM

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GRRM said that they could do things with ice that we couldn’t even believe

>tfw house targaryen is extinct, dead, irrelevant, and will forever have a reputation of being complete impulsive psychotic retards who ultimately failed and got defeated in the end
>meanwhile, House Stark is alive and well and was always destined to succeed and win and get their vengeance on traitors and murderers
>Sansa was always going to become queen
Feels pretty good.

>and he can be killed by scorpions and even arrows
Actually Drogon can't be killed by scorpions, he has plot armor that protects him even when hundreds of them are shooting at him all at once. Tragically Dany forgot to buy a matching set for Rhaegal.

>Sansa was always going to become queen
Wrong, it's D&D fanfiction

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He deserves better than dying for the north

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>all this Dany vs Sansa posting
Shut up already. Post Stannis

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The funny thing is that people praise season 6. Objectively, there are numerous moments that are people pleasers. But when one goes back and re-examines it, one realizes that shit either doesn't make sense or has no payoff.

Where is the payoff of Bran having the power to affect the past and cause a causal loop?

Where is the payoff of Cersei blowing up The Great Sept? Why doesn't she face consequences for her actions? fAegon could have been introduced in season 5, but Cersei was made queen because of actress favoritism. And then the show didn't even know what to do with her afterwards.

Why did Sansa lie about the Knights of the Vale? So the audience can clap when a deus ex machina happens? Why dumb down everybody to make Sansa look smart, and then still not make her actions or behavior make sense? D&D have no idea how to write an intelligent character.

Season 6 also overpowered Daenerys by giving her Dorne and (part of) the Iron Islands. With no fAegon, the plot in the South had to be extended through contrivance.

He's going to die for the north in the books too. It just wont be after Ser Twenty of House Goodmen solos half his army.

And he deserves better

Sansa's direwolf Lady dying so early was symbolism for Sansa never getting to rule the north. Fuck D&D.

You do realise the entire central point of the story is Stark vengeance and ultimate success, right? Martin wrote a fantasy story about the Starks, their allies, and their battle against various evils. Sansa will most likely be upgraded to some high position or extremely relevant role in Winds, if not becoming THE Queen in the North.

>This line ever make sense? This mopey prick’s mother was literally Ned’s sister

He was raised a bastard in a culture that considers bastards lesser

What are the odds gurm completely changes his ending because of season 8's reception?
On one hand, I can't see him being that proactive and non-lazy for once. On the other, I can see him being that petty and concerned with public reception.

Being a queen without a king is show fanfiction

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Extremely low, but there will be a lot of differences and changes and a lot more detail and things explained or concluded in a better way, including various plot-lines and characters. He literally said it on his blog when someone asked him if his ending will be different:
“Yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no.”

>What are the odds gurm completely changes his ending because of season 8's reception?
50%. He definitely will consider it

Of all the iconic lines they could have called back to for Daenerys's final scene they went with the one they'd come up with 10 seconds ago

the fat man is retired bro, he hasn't written any of TWOW, it's a meme

The writing is so bad that coming to this conclusion is perfectly understandable. Jon treats Dany like shit in season 8. Almost none of their relationship carried over from season 7. It's like Jon was replaced by a completely different person in-between seasons.

I think it's a pretty good ending for him though, especially with the Iron Bank still supporting Stannis' cause and sending those 20,000 sellswords. If he manages to take Winterfell before dying, then Shireen (well Davos I guess) will control the North and probably the biggest army left in Westeros. Then he can just marry her off to Faegon and take the Iron Throne.

George will 100% ignore that, he famously said after he couldn't do the timeskip that "if a twelve-year-old has to conquer the world, so be it", which is obviously Bran. He doesn't care about logic or progression, he just wants to grt to the ending he wanted. Dany needs dragons dangerous and large enough for Fire and Blood in Essos to get the Dothraki, free Slaver's Bay and possibly attack the Free Cities and still threaten Westeros, if she loses one or two to others those dragons have to remain as threats for others too so not every city has wildfire so they'll need to be a decent size or somehow breathing tons of napalm everywhere

The true "bittersweet" ending we're getting is the lack of one

>It's like Jon was replaced by a completely different person in-between seasons.
All the Starks get replaced by emotionless psychopaths in between seasons 7 and 8.

>THE Queen in the North

Fuckign Targaryens couldn't manage to get people to accept a Queen as a ruler and they had unkillable dragons on their side. You think the book North is going to let itself be ruled by a woman?

>things explained or concluded in a better way, including various plot-lines and characters
I honestly don't see how he could make king bran make even marginally more sense than dabid did.

Why didn't he just make everyone a few years older from the very beginning?

>What are the odds gurm completely changes his ending because of season 8's reception?
I think George knew his ending was shit long before season 8 aired. He already scrapped The Winds of Winter once (allegedly). I think George has no idea how to make an 11-year-old tree wizard king and make it believable. He has no idea how to make the North secede either, unless that is D&D fanfiction. It's completely unbelievable unless Bran is an evil Professor X-like character who mind controls everybody.

>House Stark alive and well
Bran is impotent, Sansa is a Bolton/Lannister, Goblina never marries

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Sansa and Arya were moments away from killing each other in season 7. Arya psycopathically chopped up two guys and fed them to their father for a mediocre reaction. The Starks were turned into lunatics and they suffered no repercussions.

>What are the odds gurm completely changes his ending because of season 8's reception?

Lets pretend that he'll even finish at all.

There's probably already a decent amount of differences between the book ending and show on account of all the changes they made. But on top of that he'll change things. He almost has too, the ending turned the show into a joke.

Biggest show in the world and now people just make fun of it for fucking the ending up so bad. It's kinda sad.

E M I L I A-C L A R K E IS A CIA PSYOP UNDER PROJECT MK ULTRA TO KEEP YOU IN YOUR CONDITIONING DO NOT TRUST THE WOMAN IN THE RED DRESS HAVE ANY OF YOU SEEN E M I L I A IRL? THAT'S BECAUSE SHE'S CGI IT WAS ALWAYS A CIA PROJECT
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DO NOT TRUST THE WOMAN IN THE RED DRESS
DO NOT TRUST THE WOMAN IN THE RED DRESS
DO NOT TRUST THE WOMAN IN THE RED DRESS

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>there's never been a Queen in the North in their own right
>lol so here's a mind trick Queen
>there's never been a Queen of the Seven Kingdoms in their own right
>lol that's cause all the women are crazy, are Maegor tier and need to be skipped
What did George mean by this?

Dany was an emotionless impulsive/violent psychopath from the beginning. It has always, ALWAYS been foreshadowed. It’s emphasised constantly with her always saying “I WILL take what is mine with fire and blood!!111!!!1” and when she broke up with Daario in a completely cold way in s6 and literally even admitted to Tyrion that she “felt nothing” telling a guy who loved her and a guy she “thought she cared for” to fuck off. She was only impatient to get it done.
Dany’s always been an unfeeling psychotic whore. At least Sansa had a fucking soul and a personality and millions of layered elements and traits to her which made her loveable and well-liked. She was capable of being ruthless, vengeful and cold to her enemies and wise overall, while also being a great friend, a wonderful sister, extremely caring and apologetic when need be, kind, and a true patriot to the North. Fuck Danyfags. Long may Sansa reign.

The only realistic conclusion for Westeros would be a fractured seven kingdoms. It's just natural. The unification of Westeros was unnatural, I.E had completely balance-breaking super-weapons involved. So unless Bran gets complete control of Dany's dragons I don't see how he could ever rule the continent from the Iron Throne bar some mind control bullshit.

Based.

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Apparently he was really upset about the ending to Battlestar Galactica* and wrote some blog post ranting about it. Maybe seeing what D&D have done to the show will motivate him to finish the books so people don't remember his story the same way.

*Which is actually a real tv show, I thought it was just a joke from The Office

>There is nothing to prove Jon loves Dany in season 8. Anything he does or says can be explained by him trying to honor his oath to her as Queen or faking his feelings to have her army and dragons

The writing is terrible but come on. He constantly tells her he loves her. Tries to fuck her as soon as he's a little drunk. Blushes like a schoolgirl when someone calls her pretty. Basically follows her across the world.

He just learned his entire life was a lie and when he turned to the person he cared about the most she only cared about herself. Then he loses his ability to speak and turns into an extra.

>At least Sansa had a fucking soul and a personality and millions of layered elements and traits to her which made her loveable and well-liked. She was capable of being ruthless, vengeful and cold to her enemies and wise overall, while also being a great friend, a wonderful sister, extremely caring and apologetic when need be, kind, and a true patriot to the North.
Yeah 2/10 for making me replying to it

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it was Lost, he hated the ending of Lost

>Dany was an emotionless impulsive/violent psychopath from the beginning.

No, she was not

>Tries to fuck her as soon as he's a little drunk
He doesn't though, that's the whole reason she burns KL down

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He planned to age them after but events took place on a smaller timetable than planned and so with the books already published by then it was too late to do anything, that's when he wanted to find somewhere in AFFC or ADWD to do a timeskip for everyone but he couldn't do it since people progress differently, flashbacks would be annoying and it wouldn't work for everyone

>At least Sansa had a fucking soul and a personality and millions of layered elements and traits to her which made her loveable and well-liked. She was capable of being ruthless, vengeful and cold to her enemies and wise overall, while also being a great friend, a wonderful sister, extremely caring and apologetic when need be, kind, and a true patriot to the North.
fuck that other user, 10/10, beautifully written bait

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I could Rickon being her puppet or something but honestly with Bran being king of everything else it just makes no sense regardless.

Nigga she tried to kill her sister, and didn't give a shit when Rickon was shot dead.
Sansafags are truly brainless

>Sansa-haters have zero arguments
Like pottery. lol

Yes, she was. She was drunk on her newfound power since season 2 or so, and she literally never, ever did anything herself. She just liked to frighten people with her dragons and shout “dracarys!” and then walk away unharmed while everyone else suffered and burned to death. She’s a weak, cowardly piece of shit whore who relied on other people (that she treated like fucking garbage) to do everything for her.
I wish Dany had a more gruesome, horrific death.

Hey lads remember that time Sansa told a guy who had been making armour his whole life to start putting leather on his breastplates? That was great. She's literally the smartest person in existence.

Hon doesn't try to do shit. He kisses Dany back after she went to his room. He returns her affections because he is drunk. Then he is disgusted by incest for no reason and pulls away. D&D then put him on Dragonstone so he can treat her like shit one last time before she burns down King's Landing. Jon in season 7 would have consoled Dany after her dragon and her best friend died. Jon in season 8 doesn't really care about Dany--or much of anything, to be honest. "You are my queen, I don't like incest, Sansa can be trusted, and I only ever wanted to be with the Wildlings." That's the only insight we get into Jon as a character in season 8.

There's not even reason to break into seven kingdoms, each kingdom should be so weak by the end that individual Houses should be able to break away to crown themselves kings or Queens of their own lands, there's no one to stop them

Sansa also pointed out that Cersei, a mass-murdering terrorist, is not to be trusted. She also pointed out that people need food to eat. This is how D&D write smart characters.

She actually is pretty smart. Especially if you look at how everyone around her is extremely fucking dumb. She has to parent and guide everyone, even her own ‘brother’ Jon. She makes extremely wise and tactful decisions. She’s cunning, an expert at judging people’s character, she’s charismatic and utterly beautiful and knows how to use this to her advantage. She also cares about her home (the North) and its people. She makes sure everyone is well fed and organises defences. She always manages to win because she is a Queen at heart. You cannot disprove this.

That shit started around Season 4 or 5. The funny thing about OPs post is that DnD later wrote a scene in which Tyrions complains about Theon a dick to him. When Tyrion was a giant ass in that scene and Theon tried to be a bro.

>Dany

Freed slaves
Stayed in Meereen to help the people there instead of invading Westeros
Locked up her dragons for accidentally killing one innocent.
Dropped her plans again to help stop the White Walkers.

>Sansa

Cares nothing for Rickon, her little brother and rightful heir to Winterfell.
Lie to Jon about the Vale Knights.
More than willing to turn on her sister
Wants to kick children out of their homes.
Betrays an oath made infront of the Winterfell hearttree
Exiles Jon for no reason so she can be Queen.

Sansa is a biiiiiiiiiitch

He hated the ending of both, he considered Battlestar Galactica shit cause god did it or something like that

There's no reason to stop every kingdom from seceding and there is no incentive to. Why would anybody want to follow king Bran? An 11-year-old with no claim to the throne?

>the entire central point of the story is Stark vengeance and ultimate succes
level 1 opinion. Every Stark, except Sansa, is a monster at this point in the book. You obviously never read any of Gurms endings.

Nope, I can't disprove that D&D have to make everyone else retarded to make someone seem smart, because that is absolutely spot-on. Good analysis.

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>She actually is pretty smart.
How is lying about the Knights of the Vale smart? What has Sansa done that is actually smart? How has the show made her smart without dumbing down everybody else?

Dude, he has the best story.

STANNIS

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Literally nothing. They told us she is smart but they have never shown us anything.

stories bring people together

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It's like they mistook all the praise for their adaptation of the books as praise for their own writing and let it go to their heads.

>guy in the back looking at the camera
yikes

The idea that Sansa is cunning and has been manipulating things to arrange for Dany’s death, Jon’s exile and for herself to be Queen of the North is reading way too much into things to like a fan theory degree.
It’s like taking the 4 second “please sit” comic relief line and writing about how it’s an empowering dig against mediocre white male patriarchy.

Because Bran is a protagonist Gary Stu of the beloved honorable competent ruler for 8,000 years family of House Stark and is wise thanks to the hivemind, yay for "democracy" and people peacefully coming together. That's pretty much how George expects us to take it thanks to his pacifistic beliefs and love of House Stark

George said he based a lot of this on the Wars of the Roses, my favorite part of that period in history is when everyone voted for Henry to be king of England because he had a really cool story.

>and is wise thanks to the hivemind
Is the hivemind (Children/Weirwood Net/Bloodraven) really meant to be portrayed positively? I know George is a hippie but people being ruled by a near-omniscient hive mind that has no reason to trust or like humans sounds kind of horrifying.

>Anti-Sansa fags have no arguments, just the same mind-numbing repeated rhetoric over and over
It’s like a circlejerk in a festive of clowns. It’s just comical and sad at this point.
It’s like Tyrion said: many have underestimated Sansa. All of those people are dead now. I take great joy in this fact. Thanks for brightening up my day lol

I was agreeing with you and the other user asked you a legitimate question.

>many have underestimated Sansa. All of those people are dead now
and Sansa herself had nothing to do with those deaths lmfao. Sansa is rightly underestimated as she is not shit and still is not shit even at the end of the show, she still never DID ANYTHING. She just became queen in the north because there was no one else obviously lol and she isn't a little kid.

It should be horrifying, but it'll be a happy goood moment as far as George is concerned. It'll be like the spirit of nature itself is guiding humanity towards a better future. Lords are voting in Mother Earth and humanity has a role to play

Nah. Attempted condescension isn’t agreement. It’s just pathetic.
Sansa was smarter and braver than everyone else from the beginning. You can see extremely early on from how she pretends to be stupid and goes along with what the Lannisters say to protect herself and her family. She almost even got Joff killed in either the first or second season when she told him Robb tends to go where the ‘fight is the strongest.’ She’s pretended to be stupid while manipulating and outsmarting everyone else. She even does this with LF, who’s supposed to be some master manipulator.
You’re just a disingenuous idiot who hates Sansa for no reason at all except that you can’t and won’t ever have her. Fucking sucks to be you, I guess.

>Especially if you look at how everyone around her is extremely fucking dumb.
Your own words.
And you still haven't answered the other guy's question.

With his logic, you could say that everybody who went against Ned Stark is dead now therefore Ned must have been playing a very clever game all along.

>lmfao
>is not shit
Go back to Twitter you fucking underage disgrace.

>Hon doesn't try to do shit. He kisses Dany back after she went to his room. He returns her affections because he is drunk. Then he is disgusted by incest for no reason and pulls away. D&D then put him on Dragonstone so he can treat her like shit one last time before she burns down King's Landing. Jon in season 7 would have consoled Dany after her dragon and her best friend died. Jon in season 8 doesn't really care about Dany--or much of anything, to be honest. "You are my queen, I don't like incest, Sansa can be trusted, and I only ever wanted to be with the Wildlings." That's the only insight we get into Jon as a character in season 8.

Jon loves Dany. Killing her at the end doens't work if he doesn't.

The problem is that the writing is fucking terrible and completely driven by a nonsensical plot. They can't have characters react in believable ways because it wouldn't let the plot develop in the way they want, so they just have the characters act like retards. The characters have problems that are easily solved by simply talking to each other, so the writers solution to this is to have none of the characters talk to each other. So yeah Jon loves Dany, but they only way they could make season 8's plot work is if Jon basically wasn't a character anymore. So that's what they did.

Characters outright lie to the audience and we are expected to believe it. Varys telling us Jon is to weak for Dany? We just watched season 7 where Dany basically bends to Jon's every demand. We just watched 7 seasons of Jon doing whatever the fuck he wants without caring about the consequences.

Basically the writing is so bad you no longer see the characters as characters. Their actions aren't really associated with them. They're just pawns to be moved around on the writers chessboard, you can see the strings being pulled from offstage.

>ywn see sam be killed by the night king
>ywn see jon go crazy after the death of his cowardly friend
>ywn see jon accepting his targeryan heritage
>ywn see jon fighting the night king for 20 episodes
>ywn see jon repopulating westeros with dragon children

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>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>Anyway, this is why I decided to have everyone spontaneously elect an autistic 11 year old as their ruler.

Bravo.

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You still haven’t effectively disproven any of my points or made a strong case as to why Sansa is supposedly dumb or useless. Sad to see, really. I make point after point and bring up all of the times Sansa has shown her cleverness even from the very beginning and you just deflect and deflect and deflect. Get the fuck out of here, r/freefolk seems more your alley.

>STILL hasn't answered the question
Btw I never claimed she was dumb or useless. If I have to claim something it would be that D&D have no idea how to write smart characters and everything Sansa related from the moment LF sold her to the Boltons for no reason is dumb and poorly written. So are many other things.

>Killing her at the end doens't work if he doesn't.
Not that user but it does. He chose love of his family (Sansa and Arya) over duty (to Daenerys as she's his Queen). Jon being an oathbreaking kinslayer who kills someone in such a coward way luring them into a false sense of security is enough to get to to cry, commiserate and think about if he did the right thing

This is just bait at this point. Sansa being a dumb preteen who bought into the honor meme is the entire point of her character.
She runs to tell Cersei that Ned is taking her and Arya away from Kings Landing and fucks up Ned’s plan. This isn’t three layer deep machiavelli manipulation, it’s an 11 year old girl not realizing honor and her well being don’t mean shit to these people.

When the fuck did I ever say that Sansa (along with all other show characters) weren’t victims to D&D’s bad writing after s6? She still was the best part of the show along with a few others who were connected/allied to her. Even Tyrion and Cersei were dumbed down dramatically after s5. Season 6 Sansa had countless moments of bravery and strength. Fuck yourself.

>When his hand fell from her neck to her chest, grabbing her breast that was covered by the material, it still made her lean into him, wanting more.
>Give me everything.
>So there was no confusion, she yanked at his clothes, and Jon stripped his upper half faster than she thought would be possible, metal clanking to the ground and echoing in the hall that was empty except for the two of them. Dany’s hands attacked the laces to his breeches until he took over so she could hike up the dress she wore.
>She caught a brief glimpse of how his eyes had gone dark with lust. Jon sharply inhaled when he picked her up with ease. He pushed her against the door for stability, and settled between her legs, wiggling into place, fingers pressed firmly into her thighs. She felt his hot breath on her neck as he grunted, cock finding her slick entrance, pushing into her with once smooth thrust.
>“Hmmm,” she hummed as she adjusted around him.
>She found it a bit funny how his resolve had cracked to easily. The once stone-faced King in the North was just a man after all.
>A man who wanted her, the so called foreign invader.

IS THAT WHAT FAN-FICTION MEANS? SO GET MOAR

Sansa thinks Daenerys is evil tyrant so her first plan of action is to act catty and openly hostile to her. It's like oh I hate this person because she might kill us all and who has dragons and army 10 times larger than my own, the best plan of attack is to act like a total bitch to her.

Then her plan to 'protect' her brother is to make him the number 1 threat to that evil tryant.

>many have underestimated Sansa. All of those people are dead now.
Many have underestimated Hot Pie. All of those people are dead now.

Maybe Sansa is meant to be Cersei 2.0, the bitch who thinks she's way more clever than she actually is and mistakes the scheming of others for her own success.

based

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>Many have underestimated Drogon, all those people are dead now

Well I guess Drogon is a manipulative genius then

Because the whole thing is build on shoddy foundations. I don't see any point in gushing over how brave and smart a character supposedly is just because the writers contrived the plot and made everyone surrounding them retarded to make it happen.
Why should I care about the 'powerful moments' of a character when they only happen off the back of a slew of terribly written plot and character developments?

The real master plan

Continuing something written by someone else always turns out shit, and they happen to be continuing something written by a fat hack who’s only talent is “subverting” the expectations of drooling mindless consumers who are use to a happy ending, causing him to go hard in the opposite direction and make everyone unrealistically awful and retarded. His work has less artistic value than linking to goatse

>Many people underestimated Hodor. All of those people are dead now.
Whoah...

> why didn’t the eagles just fly into Mordor?
Because Sauron and the nazgul would have instantly sniped them into ashes you retard.

Many have underestimated the Night King. All of those people are alive now.

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Sansa is a pretty terrible character too. Nobody was saved from D&D garbage writing.

Sansa is either an idiot who falls into power through pure bad writing. (She spends the entire season openly antagonizing her enemy and tries to protect her loved ones by forcing them into incredibly dangerous situations)

Or she's an evil master mind that falls into power through pure bad writing (she thinks Dany is mad so she manipulates her into going mad. But at the same time knows Dany loves Jon so much she won't immediately kill him as soon as he becomes a threat.)

Basically Sansa is like a crazy parent who is worried their kid might get hit by a car because their playing to close to the street. So her solution is to shove them into on coming traffic. Then after they miraculously survive she disowns them.

There’s also the fact that later on after Renly’s death, Robb laments that if he’d traded the Kingslayer for Sansa, he might’ve been able to marry her to Highgarden or even somewhere else to forge an alliance and win the war.
If Sansa hadn’t ruined her and Arya’s chance to escape KL, Robb might have won the war and all the Starks might be alive.

It’s funny that Sophie Turner is the one tweeting about how people need to stop attacking D&Ds shit writing. That shit writing did wonders for her character.

>made a strong case as to why Sansa is supposedly dumb
leather on armor

My king. Now and always.

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>he might’ve been able to marry her to Highgarden
Would the Tyrells have gone for it though? The Lannisters have the king and the heirs to the throne, incest rumors notwithstanding. Marrying Margaery to Joffrey is a much better deal than anything Robb can offer.

WHERE IS MY ARMOR
WHERE IS MY DRAGON?
WHERE IS MY UNCLE?
WHERE IS MY MAD WAIFU?

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Sansa:
>effectively leads the north despite Jon’s absence and his incompetence
>learned from all her past childish season one mistakes and very very quickly became the player/genius who had the Lannisters fooled
>learned from everyone she met (Cersei, LF, Margaery), and has the amazing ability to gain tremendous amounts of insight easily and use it in a way to benefit herself, her family and her cause
>doesn’t fall for LF’s scheme to pit herself and Arya against each other, executes him
>escapes from Ramsay, kills him
>during the BotB Sansa knows that Jon doesn’t have enough men to win the battle and she sends a raven to LF so the knights of the vale can show up and lead to the Starks victory. if it wasn’t for Sansa, Jon would most likely be dead along with all of his men
>respected by pretty much everyone and is smarter than Cersei and Dany
>has tons of experience from living in King’s Landing

Dany:
>exists
>le female conquerer
>ultra-feminist dyke stuff
>every single thing she does (including getting rid of slavery) was purely out of self-interest and wanting to get the respect/trust of others so she can become queen
>”dracarys!”

Hard choice, am I right?

*Unless, of course, Robb decides that he wants the Iron Throne for himself. That would change a lot.
>Robb marries Margaery
>Sansa marries Garlan/Loras

>a little girl kill night king
>it doesnt make sense right
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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>>during the BotB Sansa knows that Jon doesn’t have enough men to win the battle and she sends a raven to LF so the knights of the vale can show up and lead to the Starks victory. if it wasn’t for Sansa, Jon would most likely be dead along with all of his men
If it wasn't for Sansa, Jon wouldn't have gotten all his men killed in a battle he couldn't possibly have won.
>Hey Jon, the Lord Protector the Vale *really* wants to fuck me so he's sending troops north to reinforce us
>Great, I'll just wait an extra hour for them to show up and we can take the Boltons then

>stops responding to replies because he got BTFO
>starts making fresh bait instead
admirable

>>>/reddit/

I mean, they did poison Joffrey to avoid the marriage. Besides there were other houses he could have married her to besides Highgarden.
After Renly dies, most of his bannermen chose Stannis rather than Joffrey although they had no love for Stannis.
They might have gone over to Robb and his allies if there were more of them.
Plus if both had gotten out of Kings Landing he would have had two Northern Princesses to bargain with.
Even a formal bethrothal to SweetRobin might’ve made crazy lady Arryn pledge the power of the vale to their cause.

HIDE SANSAFAG THREADS
IGNORE SANSAFAG POSTS
DO NOT REPLY TO SANSA POSTERS

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based Stannis bro

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>zero arguments from yet another anti-Sansa fag
Adorable.
The Starks will forever and ever always be the core foundation of the story in either medium. It’s canon and objective. George’s last fucking book was literally going to be titled “A Time for Wolves.” Like it or not, the Starks are here to stay and they will win, succeed, and get their vengeance in the last two books as well. They already did in the show. If you don’t like it, then remove yourself from any GoT discussion and go sulk and cry into a corner. No one gives a shit.

>zero arguments
that's you though, ignoring the replies to your previous posts

>I mean, they did poison Joffrey to avoid the marriage.
In order to get to Tommen. You're right that having the girls would be a big deal, I just don't think the Tyrells would necessarily go for it. They want the Iron Throne, unless Robb can give that to them they're not going to join him.
>Even a formal bethrothal to SweetRobin might’ve made crazy lady Arryn pledge the power of the vale to their cause.
Lysa wouldn't have done shit. Her family's home was literally being attacked by Lannisters while her father was dying and she didn't lift a finger. She's a cunt of the highest order.

Balerion was a lot older than 94. He was born before the Doom and was huge as shit during the Conquest and still growing until he died around 90AC.

my gf got me a "i drink and i know things" pint glass for christmas

>jon will never roll out in a targ armor

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The last dragon, gone forever

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>Jon loves Dany. Killing her at the end doens't work if he doesn't
I agree, it doesn't work. Jon is supposed to love Daenerys, but the ending is only possible because Jon treats Daenerys like shit.

Stop replying to sansafag and his bait. He's hungry for those (you)s

>Besides there were other houses he could have married her to besides Highgarden.
Lots of fun possibilities, especially since the other Reach lords didn't like the Tyrells much. Maybe the Tarlys or Hightowers?

>effectively leads the north despite Jon’s absence and his incompetence
yeah she told some armourer he was doing it wrong, fucking brilliant
>learned from all her past childish season one mistakes and very very quickly became the player/genius who had the Lannisters fooled
went from completely naive and retarded to slightly less naive and retarded, genius
>the amazing ability to gain tremendous amounts of insight easily and use it in a way to benefit herself
ambiguous bullshit
>doesn’t fall for LF’s scheme to pit herself and Arya against each other, executes him
has an omniscient brother
>escapes from Ramsay, kills him
that was 100% theon
>BotB
see >respected by pretty much everyone and is smarter than Cersei and Dany
respected for no reason and smarter than two insane retards, wow
>has tons of experience from living in King’s Landing
ambiguous bullshit

Book Jon will pump some babies in her so she won't be the last

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The Sansafag admits that the show's writing is terrible, but then uses the show's terrible writing as proof that Sansa is smart. When the Sansafag is asked to provide proof that Sansa is smart, the Sansafag lashes out and accuses the one asking the question of being a Danyfag, a redditfag, or an anti-Starkfag. The Sansafag has no argument and is personally offended that people don't like the show version of Sansa, who is shit.

take your pills schizo

>half his force gets nuked
"Prepare to land."
Is he the most based man ever?

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>yeah she told some armourer he was doing it wrong, fucking brilliant

Yeah but if you look at that scene, she’s walking through the courtyard really fast and having a conversation at the same time

She must be really high-powered and competent

>lands anyway
>loses the battle
yeah, very based. good thing they had to repeatedly remind us that he's some military genius

yes

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Why couldn't they just share Jon's dick

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Sunk cost fallacy innit

danyfag detected

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>she’s walking through the courtyard really fast and having a conversation at the same time
D&D watched one episode of West Wing and decided that walking and talking fast was how you show someone is politically savvy.

Stannis Baratheon is the rightful king of Westeros.

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Plus he still would have won if Tywin and the Tyrells hadn't shown up

STANNIS

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Or they watched an episode of The Gilmore Girls and decided that’s how you write a total bitch that the audience still likes

Sansa didn't want Jon's dick. She has deliberately undermined him and tried to get him killed. She only appears to be jealous about Daenerys in season 8 because the writing is terrible and there is no reason for her antagonism.

Sansa conspires behind Jon's back to make him king, but once Daenerys dies, she is perfectly fine with having Jon be banished to the Wall. Sansa suffers no consequences for her bizarre actions. Sansa is rewarded by becoming Queen for no reason.

Sansa S09e01

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She seems to be the only one who really liked how season 8 went.

Davos was significantly more based than Stannis

For all their terrible decisions from season 5 onwards, it was pretty cool that D&D had the balls to show this on screen. IIRC in the books you only get vague whispers about Grey Wind's head being sown on Robb's body.

...

Was "Lancel Lannister" really that stupid of a name?

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Dany's heel turn is even more forced and dumb in the books
>Gets stranded a week, shitting herself from bad water and berries and has visions
>lol I'm all fire and blood now fuck peace

I replied somewhat confrontationally to you, but I reread your post and agree 100%. Sorry.

so stupid that the actor complained to production that Emilia Clarke kept harassing him about it and calling him stupid off set.

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Tbf if I went from ruling a massive city and having 3 magical superweapons at my disposal to getting diarrhea alone in a field somewhere I'd be pretty mad too

Dany was an entitled evil cunt from the start. Stannis' only failure was that he didn't kill the remaining Targshitters.

D&D took the series because of the Red Wedding. They didn't shy away from any of the violence because they loved it. I thought it was melodramatic, but what do I know?

KEK

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...

Based ecgchad

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This, George is rushing. Aerys took years of miscarriages, stillborns, and crib death to crack on top of being a prisoner for half a year but after sometime in the dessert Dany is making life changing decisions and going nuts

My two main criticisms
>turning the white walkers into no big deal
One of my favourite messages of the show was that people were fighting over petty shit when there was something way more important going on.
>butchering Jon snow
Enough said. He was the coolest character, the Luke Skywalker of the show and turned into an insufferable NPC

If it wasn't for this I would have looked past the awkward and bad rushed writing

Dead, random, dragonspawn dudes

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fucking THIS, they butchered my boys so much
Jon should have killed Dany to forge Lightbringer and have a 1x1 against NK in the Throne room

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It's kind of mind boggling how professionals managed to make the season so bad. Even rushing it seems like they made all the worst fucking decisions that the average 12 year old could have written better following GRRMs notes

People looked passed the bad writing of the second half of the series because they thought it was going somewhere. But no, it wasn't going anywhere. George's ending straight up sucks and nobody knows how to get to it. George made Jon and Dany basically soulmates (gayass term, but it applies when their relationship is viewed objectively), and then he has Jon kill his own aunt and love. To what? Subvert expectations? To make a some kind of commentary about The Lord of The Rings? To reinforce that love is the death of duty? Didn't Jon learn that lesson already?

George's fat self-insert gets a happy ending and all the Starks, Jon not included, get a happy ending.

That was such a random asspull. Especially sailing west of Westeros is something, not even the Ironborn managed to achieve

>believing that the books will be finished

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Don't think it will be Drogon. The Wildfire underneath the city will ignite and explode

If somebody, one year ago, created a thread on Yea Forums that detailed the spoilers of season 8 and the reasons behind them, nobody would believe it. Not even after the fucking Wight Hunt. The reasoning behind what takes place on screen is so flimsy that it's almost impossible to not view season 8's execution as malice (or indifference, at the very least).

The problem is whatever George is writing is basically a completely different story from the show.

What makes me mad is that they build up something completely different from what they delivered.

They should have make straight up a different ending for the series anyway. Fuck D&D

>rickon
user...

Bran becomes King and Jon kills Daenerys. Sounds like a shit ending to me.
They were deliberately misleading. In season 7, Dany is heavily foreshadowed to have a baby with Jon. Season 8 didn't even address that. It didn't even have Jon and/or Dany talk about marriage? I wouldn't even say that it was done to subvert expectations. D&D simply avoided it--their go-to strategy in many situations.

Yea, because so many things are different or missing. Like Aegon missing from the show is the reason Varys and Dorne made no sense.

Then there is the fact the Three-Eyed Raven in the show is not Bloodraven.

Rickon is still alive in the books. Not sure what his character’s purpose or future is though

>In season 7, Dany is heavily foreshadowed to have a baby with Jon
Hahahahaha, oh god Jonerysfags are hilarious.

It was though

Lord of Winterfell for Stannis.

It’s great foreshadowing when you realize that Dany was pregnant and in Season 2 Jon mentions how he swears never to father a bastard

>knew bran was gonna be king
>Cut him out a whole season
>Had him do nothing except be exposition dump in s6
>like over 2 hours of screentime post s5 spent on Sam dicking around that went nowhere

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purpose is either:
>no purpose, he'll die just like in the show
or
>easy cop-out to have whoever ruling winterfell with rickon as the puppet

Non-meme answer: I guess the great Houses always shift power in a cyclical manner, like spokes on a wheel turning round and round. She wanted to break this wheel, this system, to let any retard come in and take power over everything and everyone including the Great Houses.
Shit is retarded and she died for it.

So you didn't even watch the season.

There are so many unanswered questions about Jon and Daenerys in the books. I don't even think Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son in the books, I think it's Dany. While Jon is Ashara Dayne's son

>I don't even think Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son in the books, I think it's Dany

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So in this theory, Ned’s famous “promise” to Lyanna is to protect Dany?
I think in that case, Ned would have done more than just protest Roberts decision to have her killed.
Plus there would’ve been no reason to pair her with Viserys if she could have remained anonymous somewhere.
I also think that if Ned knew where Lyannas daughter was, they wouldn’t have been poor

Bran
>gets Hodor, Summer, the last Three-Eyed Raven, and the Children of the Forest killed.
>drops Meera Reed the moment she stops being useful.
>creepily talks to his sister about a rape scene he watched.
>gives his other sister a knife because he knows she will kill The Night King with it.
>fucks with Petyr Baelish for purely shits and giggles.
>lets Littlefinger's nonsensical plot to turn the Stark sisters against each other go on for far too long.
>tells Jon, through Sam, he is a Targaryen solely to stir up shit.
>does absolutely nothing but exist during The Long Night.
>doesn't tell anyone what Cersei or Euron are doing (and is never asked, for some reason).
>implies that he knew all along that Daenerys would kill a million people and that he would be elected King for no reason.
>also undermines his authority by letting the North secede for no reason.
The ending will be shit in the books, too.

Not possible, Viserys was already too old to not know whether his mom is pregnant and gave birth. Dany is also 9 months younger than Jon so Ashara would've had to live a very long while after Lyanna died and after Willem fled with Viserys

>I don't even think Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son in the books, I think it's Dany.

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>I don't even think Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son in the books
Some times, a spade is a spade, user. Why go against the mountain of evidence? You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Preston makes a good point that Ned seems all too concerned about Dany in the first book

But what else he could have done? Draw his sword and kill Robert and the small council?

And we do know precious little about Dany's childhood. Even Viserys probably isn't a good source of information on that since he was also a little kid

Based. Also.
Young Stannis coming through.

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Well, I'm not. The books are never gonna be finished by Gurm

No way. Jude Law is like 50, no?

Rate my good guy Targaryen dynasty. So far I've
>removed incest
>set my capital at Oldtown
>increased powers of the Faith and Maesters
>refused to invade non-Andal kingdoms
Should I set up a new bank to cuck the (((Iron Bank))) and also abolish First Night next?

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Stannis niggaz unite

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what do 16 pictures of boy george have to do with GoT?

>Preston makes a good point that Ned seems all too concerned about Dany in the first book
Ned also hated that Rhaegar's kids were brutally murdered. Are Rhaegar's kids Ned's, too? Do you not realize that Ned was secretly housing a Targaryen and probably didn't want said Targaryen's 13-year-old aunt killed?

D&D got the series because they knew who Jon's parents are. Stop being delusional. You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

>George dies
>Preston finishes the series for him
>It's actually good

what game is this? I keep seeing it posted in these threads.

Dunno why but I just feel like the entirety of GoT/ASOIAF is ultimately meaningless. In the first three books (and first four seasons) you get a ton of unexpected twists, lots of intrigue and mystery and thrill and action, entertaining dialogue and fascinating/well written characters, and you genuinely don’t know what’s going to happen or who’s going to win. Then as the story progresses you see the Starks go through a ton of hardship but somehow manage to escape it all and end up winning every battle and defeating every foe.
Slowly, every other house and plot-line just fades into non-existence and/or death/defeat because D&D “kind of forgot” about them or wrote them horribly. The Others/White Walkers are never expanded on in any satisfying way. We don’t get any motive, backstory or reason for why they just attempt to relentlessly kill everyone. Dany was written to go mad from the beginning and it’ll play out differently in the books but the ending just seems less interesting now. The Starks are George’s fav house and the Lannisters got pretty tiresome with all of the interesting ones dying and Cersei being reduced to some one-facial-expression generic villain who sips wine on a roof and stares out into the sky. Jaime is just “I WANNA GET BACK IN MY SISTERS TWAT”
Like, what is the fundamental point to this saga at all? It seems like such a failure. Lots of buildup and potential for absolutely nothing.

Books are a completely unrelated story to the show.
All you wrote is show stuff and most of it can't even happen in the books anymore

I agree. Beyond "war bad" I'm not sure what the thematic purpose is to the various sub-arcs/characters of the story.

That'd actually be 10/10. I'd bet GRRM watches Preston to make sense of his own story

An 11-year-old tree wizard is elected King despite having no claim. George's ending sucks.

A feast for Crows is kino

Most of the sub-arcs and characters of the story are just for Martin to demonstrate his worldbuilding skills. He wants his world to feel “real”, that’s why he has countless sequels and prequels dedicated to ASOIAF. I will say that I found the Iron Islands actually pretty interesting though, and it was done better in the books.

You mean, a 150-year old telepathic Mastermind Bloodraven becomes a king.

i like affc, and adwd has a lot to appreciate too despite its shortcomings - definitely both a lot better than dabid's fanfiction
but ultimately, assuming the same endings for the main characters as per the show, it just makes you ask: what was the point?

Every villain is a hero in somebody else's story, except for House Stark. They are special and deserve to rule Westeros because George says so. The last Targaryen gets to enjoy the Wall after traumatically killing his aunt.

Why haven't you started Korean /got/ yet?

It's actually pretty good, just finished the first episode. It's not really medieval though, it's some combination of neolithic and iron age as the tribes are not all on the same level. The series starts with genocide of the neanderthals and there's some interesting shit going on that is LITERALLY Preston Jacobs tier. I mean at the end of the first episode, the woman who has a dream warning her not to do something finds out that the dream was 100% manipulation and not actually meant to protect her.

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The Lannister chapters are the only good parts about AFFC

>"war bad"
That doesn't even work because the good guys wage war too and so did their ancestors and it's portrayed as a good and righteous thing

What's the Mormont's castle called?

You forgot the Greyjoy chapters too

Well, I think the charm of ASoIaF is not the story, but ultimately the way the world feels alive thanks to all the minor characters and sideplots and all the little details and histories

Brienne is awesome and so are the Ironborn and the Dorne is pretty nice too, but not as good as Jaime, Cersei, Brienne and Ironborn

This is pretty much why I’m not crazy about the books. Too much supposed suspense. Tyrion starts ADWD beginning his journey to see Danaerys.
1,000 pages later, he never meets her.
Wouldn’t be so bad if you had the whole series available to you, but it’s not.
Movies, tv, books, theres no artistic value in spacing out releases for years on end. It’s just not satisfying.

I get that there are a lot of seemingly “complex” or grey characters in the series, and sometimes the bad guys are in positions of power for longer than you’d usually expect (as a way to develop intrigue and spark people’s interest) but Martin wrote the Starks as the good guys who, ultimately, will win somehow and anyone who’s against them will either die or is already dead. Once you know this, the entire story of ASOIAF just seems like an anticlimactic failure. I suppose it depends on how you look at it but it’s just disappointing in general, along with the “ancient evil” force (White Walkers) that Martin wrote never being given any backstory or explanation of their motivations and end-goals. It seems like the super generic good vs evil theme *is* actually present in Martin’s story, he just makes you forget about it every now and then with all of the other characters and plotlines he introduces which ultimately leads up to fuckall.

He is first supposed to go to Aegon

At the end of the day, does anybody know what the point of A Song of Ice And Fire is? People latched onto it because the characters were interesting. People latched onto it because the plot was "realistic." People latched onto it because they thought the entire point of the series was nihilism, and that more likable characters dying equals a good thing.

I do not know what George's ending is meant to signify.

>septon dragon rider
This is based, should I give them maximum authority now?

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Reminder that Ned and Cat get bad endings because GRRM is bitter about the happy nuclear family he never got to have with Lisa Tuttle.

It's the journey, not the destination that counts.

And Martin is not really the Good vs. Evil kind of writer.

yeah, so many of the problems people have with the books wouldn't exist if they'd have just come out in their entirety in quick succession back in the 90s
you think anyone would be complaining about r+l=j if they'd had just read the whole series start to finish in a month? nah, their minds would be fucking blown

>my favorite part of that period in history is when everyone voted for Henry to be king of England because he had a really cool story.
Same.

>Jon clearly smiling as he reunites with Ghost and Tormund
>they travel past the Wall implying Jon will be living free like a wildling rather than freezing his dick on a shattered Wall.

Also fuck off, Jon never loved Dany if he was willing to kill her over something his wildling friends are all guilty of to a lesser degree.

He had a chance to save Dany by showing he still loved her and was willing to try Targ incest. Instead he gives her the cold shoulder when she literally just shared that no one in Westeros loves her and all are conspiring.

It's not even paranoia, all of them were disloyal fuckers.

>People latched onto it because they thought the entire point of the series was nihilism, and that more likable characters dying equals a good thing.

That's the show thing. The show is a nihilistic spectacle about violence and sex. The books never felt nihilistic to me, or that nihilistic. The world is rough and cruel, but that's pretty much what medieval was.

How to lose fans and alienate critics

Hi Preston!

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Let's dispel with this fiction that Daenerys was ever not insane
youtube.com/watch?v=d_X2GGH_A_0

youtube.com/watch?v=Zah6Tvb1fr8
Jon was clearly insane too

>but Martin wrote the Starks as the good guys who, ultimately, will win somehow and anyone who’s against them will either die or is already dead.
Which is funny, because in the show at least, the Starks decide that they do not like Daenerys Targaryen, and Daenerys has to fall from grace as a result. House Stark, through Jon Snow, is Dany's biggest connection to Westeros and most ardent supporter, but the other members of it do no like her so she has to die--despite the benefits of having a woman with two fire-breathing dragons and several armies at their side.

>no one in Westeros loves her and all are conspiring.
That was also stupid. A season before that. She had Yara, Dorne and The Reach supporting her.

Suddenly it's all gone

I don’t know either. People like to praise Martin for “surpassing Tolkien and other fantasy writers” because of how nuanced and different his writing apparently is, but I just don’t see it. Certainly he enjoys killing off likeable, fun and intriguing characters, he likes to write powerful villains and make them seem like they pose some big ominous threat, but for the characters Martin intends to keep alive till the end of his series (e.g the remaining Starks, some of their allies, Jon, Sam because that’s Martin’s self insert, and forgot who else) will never face any genuinely detrimental obstacles and it just seems like a complete meaningless story. All of the remotely interesting characters died, all of the other cool plot-lines were forgotten about and made irrelevant, now what? Just the Starks? Why did he even write ASOIAF in the first place?

Targshitters are insane, yeah.

>killing a slaver to find out which ones are conspiring and helping the sons of the harpy is the same as burning a million innocent people and their homes for literally no reason
Lol wot?

Yeah, he fucking had a kid hanged.

I understand hanging Alliser, but the rest was just cruelty

Daenerys still had Yara and Dorne supporting her. She was butthurt about Westeros not liking her because the North (i.e., Sansa) hated her for no reason. Daenerys didn't marry Jon for no reason. There is just no reason to what we see on the screen.

>keeping your murderer alive who plunged the final blow in your heart

Cringe and cuckpilled

yeah, that pure child who stabbed him in the heart didn't deserve to hang

>keeping some random slave masters that conspired against you alive
Cringe and cuckpilled

If Abe Lincoln did this with Southern slavers then the USA would be a better place.

It was a traumatised kid manipulated by Alliser

Do I convert House Targaryen to Reachman? We rule from Oldtown.

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if Abe Lincoln sent the niggers back to Africa like he wanted to the USA would be a better place

Olly did what he thought was right after the lord commander made them break vows, invite savages past the Wall and spare a man who slaughtered everyone in Olly's village and Mole town

>I understand hanging Alliser, but the rest was just cruelty
Jon should've had all the major personalities in that group strung up and hung long before they stabbed him, that or sent them on long scouting missions across the Wall.

He's not really savvy enough to lead men.

You're literally using nigger logic.

>Ain Tyshon fault that he burned that cracka veteran alive! He trumuhtize bi duh hood en shit

You could argue that he did, but that's not consistent with only hanging those four guys and letting everyone else who was also involved get away with it. If you're going to let grown men who chose to conspire against you off the hook on the basis of them being coerced, you'd think that would apply to a literal child

She couldn't prove who was guilty or not, big difference from Jon knowing who fucking killed him. Goddamn brainlet.

I died, too cute.

That literal child literally stabbed Jon. I agree that the show could have handled the situation better, but Olly earned his position on the chopping block. Of course, I hate how people like Tormund were turned didn't suffer consequences for their actions, but Olly killed Jon and was punished for it. He had good reasons to do it, but he still committed the act.

Did you forget the ice elves and how Jon needs cannon fodder and can't afford to kill half his men?

Olly was like what? 12? Wildlings murdered his family and burned his home, he found a new home with the NW and suddenly this Commander is a buddy of those guys who murdered your family, those he was supposed to be protecting you from

Olly could see for himself that the Wildling were under Jon's control and weren't raping and pillaging. He still decided to feed his grudge and kill Jon anyways, he deserves to suffer the consequences of being hung.

I'd love to hear your beta limp wrist solution to punishing the boy who literally drove the last blade in your heart. Keep in mind anything other than killing Olly proves to your men that you're a spineless bitch who'll literally give your murderers a slap on the wrist.

playing as Iron King

currently conquering and converting all islands

GoT legitimately surprised people, and the series was still small enough that Ned’s death in season one unironically subverted expectations.
I’m sure a dozen other writers did the exact same thing before him, but GoT was a popular book that took Ned, presented him as the fantasy archetype and showed how his rigid honor got him killed and made him fail at being Roberts Hand.
That was what made the series so popular; and since the hardest part of being a fantasy writer is convincing people to bother to learn about and invest in your world, the next books just coasted on GoT success

>I'd love to hear your beta limp wrist solution to punishing the boy who literally drove the last blade in your heart. Keep in mind anything other than killing Olly proves to your men that you're a spineless bitch who'll literally give your murderers a slap on the wrist.
The other dozen guys who also stabbed him literally got off scot free

I'm 400 years into playing as reformed Old Gods Targaryens of New Valyria descended from a true born Jon after winning Robert's Rebellion as Rhaegar.

Dragons were returned to the world when the Starks found a dragon egg in the Winterfell crypts and I stole it from a Stark LP who tried to break off as Kang of de Norf.

Currently playing as a Skinchanger Targaryen who can warg into a wolf, boar, eagle and is a dragon rider. We own all of the Free Cities as Kingdoms with cadet Targaryen families on their thrones.

>could see for himself that the Wildling were under Jon's control and weren't raping and pillaging
not him but based on what? Wildlings were there for like a day before Jon got stabbed. Jon made them all oathbreakers and let Tormund escape justice after slaughtering innocents and brothers of the Watch

...

The whole realm denies it. From Dorne to the Wall. No one wants you for their King, Bran.

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