When did you realize the Trade federation blockade command ship was designed to mirror the circular trade harbour of...

wasnt palpatin basically hitler?

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What about the Gallic attack on the Spanish?

So who is Caesar?

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Close the tab mongoloid

that's a bit of a stretch, but ok, I give you that one.

>dude, this war about a galactic republic fighting a rival super power galactic trade network has no similarities to the Roman Republic fighting the Carthaginian mercantile trade empire

The story is the Punic Wars leading into a more general take on the concept of the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire in Rome, more a reflection on it broadly than any parallel to Julius Caesar or Octavian.

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Have I ever told you the story of Darth Hasdrubal the wise?

You're out of your element, you don't even read Latin or Greek

Wow that dude lives in a metal dick how is this even possible

It would be a reference if the Carthaginian empire would've part of the Roman Republic but they weren't. They were their own superpower.

The Trade Federation is an economic union inside the Republic itself, that's the central issue in late Republican politics and eventually wants to secede because of regulation (?). The American Civil War would be a better parallel in any way.

NANI

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The Homeworld credits openly thank George Lucas, the Bentusi are no doubt TF ships.
I don't remember them hating on the art design. The visuals are the only thing going for these movies.

Semantics, many faction of the growing Trade Federation were semi or fully independent entities outside of real influence of the galactic Republic, who seemingly had almost no military presence before Palpatines secret rearmament plot. Carthage was just a colony city of the Phoenician empire anyway, it was essentially built by a merchant guild

Lmao no you're retarded

Trading empire =/= trading federation. They're not even similar. The first Punic war was over Sicilian colonies not 'the taxation of trade routes'. The Galactic Republic at the time of the trade wars was the sole superpower in the galaxy, to the point they didn't even maintain an Army. The Romans had a large army at the start of the first punic wars but were just another small land power in comparison to the Carthaginians.

The Second Punic war was over Hispanic colonies and a violation of peace treaties so no analogies there. Nor are there any figure analogous to the Scipii or Barcas.

Furthermore Rome didn't become an Empire as a result of the punic wars. That was the Triumvirate Wars you fucking retard and that happened centuries later after multiple civil wars that had nothing to do with Carthage.

Where is this prequel retardation coming from? They're dumb fuck movies made by a negligent retard. Any association their laughable stories have to real world events is surface level at best. Disney Wars being bad changes none of that.

>Carthage was just a colony city of the Phoenician empire anyway

Lmao wtf why are you talking out your ass about shit you do not understand? The Phoenicians were an ethnic and religious group not a contiguous empire. Carthage being the most prominent Phoenician empire. Literally the opposite of what you're saying.

Fucking hell you're stupid.

>The Homeworld credits openly thank George Lucas, the Bentusi are no doubt TF ships.
I wouldn't go that far, Homeworld 1 came out mere months after Phantom Menace was released, and the Bentusi concepts date back to over a year beforehand.

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The phoenicians colonized a great deal of the Mediterraneans coastal regions and built colony cities which all housed a temple to Melqart, each colony would send a 10th of its wealth to the Phoenicians in Tyre. Carthage was one of those colony cities

>Semantics, many faction of the growing Trade Federation were semi or fully independent entities outside of real influence of the galactic Republic
That's at most hinted at in the movies. (I've never read the books) Apparently for example Geonosis was never in the Republic (according to wookieepedia), but is that ever said?
And even if, my analogy is still better, the Outer Rim and independent states also involved are just the American frontier + other states + the Indian tribes involved in the war.

>who seemingly had almost no military presence before Palpatines secret rearmament plot.
The Roman Republic was always highly militarized. The pre-civil war USA's military was severely lacking on both sides, because there was no real threat on the American continent, exactly like the Galactic Republic.

>Carthage was just a colony city of the Phoenician empire anyway, it was essentially built by a merchant guild
see this guy: Your whole sentence doesn't really make sense. Carthage at the time of the first Punic War had no political connection to Phoenicia anymore.

Yes but this was centuries before the Punic wars. By then the Carthaginians were the preeminent power in the Mediterranean and were operating as an independent empire.

They were not some small trading post in a larger Phoenician empire. This isn't a game of Civilization we're talking about here. That's a religious affiliation not a political one.

There are zero similarities between the punic wars and the prequels.

The fact that the prequels could spark conversation like this shows the plebeian that the prequels are a lot deeper than "muh cgi" or "muh bad acting"

You can ape as much imagery as you like and have the grandest story imagined, but if your storytelling is terrible then it's still a bad story.

>Grievous' Trade Federation ship
>is called The Invisible Hand
>like the famous concept named by Adam Smith in The Wealth of the Nations
kino

The fact some retard can over-analyze the prequels and then get shot down for thinking they're deep proves they're deep?

Fuck you prequel fags reach further every thread.

Carthage was culturally and religiously Phoenician, and their religion was inherently tied to politics, trade, and empire expansion. Melqart is the God Hannibal swore his oath to be the eternal enemy of Rome to

>The god was very important at Carthage, where a stele indicates that a temple was dedicated to him. The Carthaginians were also obliged to send annual tribute – one tenth of their annual profits - to the temple of Melqart at Tyre for the next few centuries. In the 3rd century BCE the influential Barcid clan of Carthage were particularly keen worshippers of Melqart. Hannibal too, famously swore an oath to the god in 237 BCE when, aged 9, he stated that he would forever be the enemy of Rome. Hannibal, too, was not the only Carthaginian general that deified himself and took on the appearance of the god.

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I always enjoyed that aspect of the prequels, tbqh. You follow 2 guys in Episode I who obviously know the politics, the dynamics and the background but you don't.

You always see the consequences of political conflict (invasion of Naboo, clone wars etc) but the real conflict is always only hinted at or just spoken about very briefly, like you read the diary of a war general but you don't know the context of the war at all. That leads to fun conversations.

I know it's most likely just lazy and/or bad story-telling (or Lucas wanted to make 4 hour realpolitik drama in the SW universe and they wouldn't let him)

I would argue that Romes conquest of Carthage is what gave the Republic its inertia towards becoming the Empire and it's taste for colonization of a grander scale

>B-BUT MUH HERO'S JOURNEY!

The prequels definitely have depth and underlying themes that people refuse to acknowledge or are just straight up ignorant to the fact they exist. The flaws the prequels have are legitimate points of criticism, but people just think George Lucas is a retard who ruined the "perfect" Star Wars. Not to mention that the prequels expanded the universe massively and kept it alive until Disney shat all over it.

>As Tyre insisted every new colony build a temple to Melqart, the god was exported across the Mediterranean and so helped to create a lasting religious and political bond with the homeland. He was especially worshipped at Tharos and Kition of Cyprus, the latter also minted coins showing an image of Tyre’s patron.

>Melqart was considered by the Phoenicians to represent the monarchy, perhaps the king even represented the god, or vice-versa, so that the two became one and the same. The ruler was known by the similar term mlk-qrt, and the Hebrew prophet Ezekiel criticises the kings of Tyre for considering themselves god on earth. Melqart was also the patron of the sea, fertility, hunting, and colonization. Further, he was responsible for the cities commercial success as the discoverer (with the help of his consort Tyros) of the dye the Phoenicians extracted from the murex shellfish, which they used to create their famous purple cloth.

The fact some retard can dismiss all analysis of the prequels in favor of blind hatred proves they're not deep?

It's actually you that's low IQ, a fag, and retarded.

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George is a business man and always had ideas of how to get more out of his franchise, I like to think he would make the prequels longer and explain more but the Clone Wars series confirms he wanted to make more EU material and succeeded in that. The CW explains everything you need about the politics of SW while being very good SW material at the same time

None of this sounds like the Trade Federation or indicates Punice era Carthage was taking its orders from Tyre.

>they're both circular
>"it must be a reference!!!"
wew

When did you realize that these guys and the droid army was how george Lucas's weird imagination processed making deals with Chinese businessmen and there cheap toy factories?

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you think that is some revelation to us? Of course Carthage was culturally Phoenician, nobody ever questioned that, but they weren't part of some Phoenician empire.

They were their own independent political entity at the time of the first Punic war. They had their own senate, some kind of aristocratic ruling class and some kind of popular voting system (most of Phoenicia was still monarchic), their own economy, their own treasury, their own army and their own colonies at this point. They may even stopped called themselves Phoenician at this point, but the evidence of that is unclear.

Just now, holy shit

I never said anything about Carthage being commanded by Tyre, I said Carthage was a colony city that survived the fall of the Phoenician sea empire

Every example of depth given requires such rigorous mental backflips to believe. What makes you think George has a working knowledge of pre-Christian Mediterranean politics? Why believe that every problem with the prequels was actually a subtle, nuanced reference that shows how truly brilliant George was all along.

What is more likely: that the movies with bad acting, bad dialogue, shallow character development and an over reliance on special effects driven action are dumb OR they're actually deep and intelligent films made by a secret genius that can only be properly understood by hours and hours of extensive analysis. Why should anyone believe the latter? Ise your fucking brain.

Disney being bad does not make prequels good.

Colonisation was not the same thing back then as it has been recently. They were private and sometimes public-private enterprises from that city. You also had military colonies. Carthage did not take orders from Tyre.

I always thought it looked like a half-eaten donut with the donut hole still in it

You missed a few elements.

Top kek

>designs are good so movies are good

Complete retard. Nobody argues that PT designs are shit. They are probably the only good thing about those movies.

Yes and...?

Does that mean they were not an empire in their own right? Does that make them any more relevant to the prequels than they were before?

t. Republic bootlicker

it would be a fun experiment if you could make such conversations/threads about the sequel-trilogy:

>the plot of Ep VII is actually a subtle retelling of the Meiji restoration
>VIII is surely a interpretation of the Kronstadt Rebellion
something like that

You are a fucking idiot.

Both sides of the war are controlled by one guy and it's a war between mass produced droids and mass produced robots. It's the most fucking boring conflict in the history of fiction.

Lucas apologists should be executed.

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Carthago delenda EST

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Lol

>dude, it's just a massive system of colonial cities all replicating the same cultural ideal based around the model ruling city with the same temple to the same god, that all extract tribute from their ruled people and deliver it to the master city, BUT IT'S NOT AN EMPIRE

I also never said anything about Carthage still being under the dominion of Tyre in the Punic wars, I said they were a surviving colony city of the old Phoenicians

Seems pointless and a bit patronizing.

That's why most of the movies don't actually follow the droids and clones. We get one battle at the end of Ep 2 (which is just a backdrop to the Jedi fight) and a bunch of battles in Ep 3, which are sprinkled in amongst the actual story.

I never once said or suggested they did.

You definitely could. Over-analysis is possible with any work of fiction. It literally impossible to graduate from film school without it.

What doesn't? He has confirmed in interviews that his vision of the prequels was much like a Shakespearean play, the story isn't told very well but it still feels like Star Wars, despite how different it is. None of your criticisms, which do have some relevance, dispute that these films have a depth people refuse to believe exists. I'm not saying the prequels are perfect masterpieces, but they aren't complete shit either. You are just going on a hatred that you feel for Lucas "ruining" your childhood.

>It's deep and amazing
>Actually, it' not that deep and amazing but the intent is what counts, right?

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The make up of the Carthaginian army was a collection of mercenary armies, slave armies, strange foreign people from the east and Africa who were enemies of Rome all centered around a professional core ruled by a powerful merchant guild commanding a trade empire. I see a lot of symbolic parallel with Dooku and the Separatist Council in that

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The prequels are in fact complete shit.
They hold no artistic value as films.

Whats boring on that you fucking autist

you heavily implied it in your initial post.

We talked about Carthage during the first punic war and after THE ENTIRE TIME, suddenly you throw in: "the were a colony of a Phoenician empire" like in "they are just a trading post of a Phoenician empire, when the war broke out". Either you think we don't know that Carthage started as a colony OR you wanted to claim that Carthage wasn't an independent entity to further your claim about the TF-Republic conflict.

I think the latter and now you try to bullshit us, like that was never your claim because you looked it up.
It's like when discussing American involvement in WWI someone suddenly says out of nowhere: "America was just one of many British colonies btw."

Never did I say they are amazing stop trying to make out I did, they are flawed films that get more shit than they deserve.

You don't know your history at all.
The Carthaginians didn't use slaves in their armies. In fact, no one really did because it's a stupid idea to arm the people who probably hate your guts and want to escape at any given moment.

The mercenaries that made up their armies came from neighboring Mediterranean nations. This includes Berbers, Greeks, Celtic Gauls, Iberians, non-Roman Italians, Sicilians, etc.
Many of these people would not have been considered "foreign" or "exotic" to the Romans or Carthaginians because they were neighbors that they regularly traded with in times of peace.

Fuck off JJ we all know you're not smart enough to copy any fiction made before 1975.

Can someone give me a rundown of the whole Trade federation deal?
I haven's seen the prequels in years

never claimed that he is that smart, would just be fun to bullshit your way through an argument.

And never call me JewJew again.

When I said "Carthage was just a colony city of the Phoenician empire anyway" I meant was just in the context of the past starting from the time of the Punic wars looking back. I was also suggesting at their origin being that of colonial merchants, similar to the trade federation. That's how I was suggesting they were similar, they were trade merchants who would ship armies of mercenaries and slaves on their fleets to their enemies lands

it was a phony conflict anyway

You don't know what's motivating me nigger. For all you know I'm a 12 year old Hatian boy who has never seen a Star Wars movie.

In point of fact I'm like everyone else here. I grew up with the prequels and loved them as a kid but as I grew older I stsrted watching films for adults. When I came back to them I saw just how shallow, pathetic and impersonal they were. They are shit movies my dude. It doesn't matter what George tried to make. What matters is what he did make: hot garbage.

These people most certainly used slave soldiers, you're just being an apologist. I'm embellishing somewhat with a sense of exotica, but that is most certainly an idea that is imbued in Roman history and played a part in shaping Western thought and identity and our view of the orient

>you're just being an apologist.
Apologist for what, retard?

repeat after me
>INDEPENDENT
>CITY
>STATE
YOU FUCKS YOU STUPID FUCKS

that's another thing, Carthage wasn't ruled by a merchant guild. Ever. They were ruled by one or two elected suffets (some kind of consul) and some aristocratic families (which included merchants, but not exclusively) + there apparently was some limited voting on matters. There was also the "104" a council seemingly parallel to the senate made up of mainly military officials.

ancient.eu/Carthaginian_Government/

Carthaginian use of slavery and child sacrifice

The Carthaginians seemed to be heavily influenced by Greek philosophy and statecraft.
This is probably why they were more successful and influential compared to the other Phoenician cities like Tyre, Sidon, and Byblos.

They didn't use slaves in their armies. If you could read, you'd understand that from my post.
Have a (you) again, dumbdumb.

The goalpost shifting and straw-grasping by prequel fags ITT amazing.

Some of the worst I've ever seen.

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The original goal post was that the trade federation blockade command ship was intentional homage to the port of Carthage, which is completely undeniable

There is literally no writing that suggests that they did not other than your baseless theory that they didn't know how to motivate and utilize slaves

Lol seemed to be? It was a post hellenized world, literally every single culture from spain to northern india was

>tfw george's allegory for cato the elder effortlessly morphs into an allegory for cesar
too highbrow for most, but my god, the man surmises 200 years of roman history in a few scenes, i wonder what else is unexplored in these films

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>which is completely undeniable

How so? There are no other references to Carthage or the Punic wars in the films. The Trade Federation is not styled aftrr Carthage in any significant way beyond the word 'trade'. George Lucas has made no projects set in pre-imperial Rome nor has he ever publicly demonstrated an interest in that subject.

Find the artist who designed the ship and show me evidence that was their intention. Then it will be """undeniable""" you fucking retard.

there is no writing that they did use slaves as part of their active fighting force either.

Quite the opposite.

according to this ancient.eu/Carthaginian_Army/ soldiers were recruited by the "vasalls" and allies of Carthage and were paid.

the story's actually great but the execution is just horrific, it's so depressing

Coming from the perspective of a Star Wars fan, the prequels were effective Star Wars films and decent films in general. They expanded the universe massively and created a new perspective for how force users used to interact before most of them were killed, so most of the religion was effectively dead. The fact that is different made most OT fans enraged. I agree the films have their flaws, I'm not disputing that, but they are unfairly judged because of the assblasted OT purists.

This user gets it. George was taking the wider, broader themes of the Republic and Empire and expressing them archetypally, with fantasy

>Carthage is the Republic
>Romans are the Trade Federation
damn.

Lol this is an extremely naive to interpret these sources. These vassals commanded slave armies, and when they were "paid" it was their owners getting paid. All armies used slaves, if not in combat in logistics

this so fucking much.

Based and Baalpilled

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Salty?

>It's a /pol/lack that's obsessed with Rome and hates "sjw feminazi Kathleen Kennedy ruining muh toy merchandising franchise" combines his contrarian defense of the prequel trilogy with his autistic Roman shit.

I am not an OT purist and I am a huge Star Wars fan. I've read the novels and comics. I've played the games and tabletops. All of it.

The prequels are bad movies. I don't have to list the reasons. There are to many to list. That makes them worse than flawed. That makes them bad.

Who gives a shit if they 'expanded the universe'? What kimd of bullshit, half assed praise is that? Expanded it how? With midiclorians and gungans? By putting all the jedi in robes and coming up with some prophecy that was never even explained? By basing whole thing on a war that Obi Wan mentioned offhandedly at the beginning of Episode 4?

Who cares that the universe was expanded. The fucking Thrawn books did that too. But those were actually good.

>The prequels are bad movies
sure, and so are pliny's histories or rembrandt's portraits, just because something is a 'bad movie' does not disqualify it as art

you have no proof for this claims, none.

You claim shit. I show a quick source that disproves it and you still deny it.

Soldiering was a good living and most of the time the only means of economic advancement, so there were ample volunteers.
Slave armies were shit and there was no reason to use them when you can pay real professional mercenary armies.

Did they maybe have a few slaves chugging spears or stones on the battlefield? Maybe possible, I would believe it, but there is no source for it.

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No one claimed it wasn't art.

Stop shifting the goalpost. Just admit you were wrong. There are only 3 good starwars movies. 10 or so good books. 5 good games and 3 good comics.

Everything else is shit.

Alright, but you would have a better experience buying one of those kids books that has all the designs of the ships with cross sections than you would watching the actual films.

Dude the podracing is basically chariot race which must be a reference to the war chariots used in the mithridatic wars.

about a series of military conflicts which started 2250 years before i was born?

Yeah totally. Too soon, bro. Too soon.

not they weren't
>You might not have noticed it... But your brain did.

>beginning of the movie
>dozens of blockade ships
>end of the movie
>1 ship

Was Lucas really just THAT lazy?

wow, I have never realized this. You are right.

I mean, it was just in general a homage to chariot racing in the Empire

Or at literally any point of time after the invention of chariots.

Any surface level reference from small-brained George.

Nothing, because the comparison was superficial at best.

not me
but there is someone who claimed it had no artistic value at all
If you don't know how they expanded the universe then you aren't a huge Star Wars fan, you are an OT fan, the prequels gave so many good games, lore and shows. The Clone Wars was a huge conflict that provided more character development than any trilogy could. The films have more merit than people who nitpick every little thing can ever appreciate, but this isn't even the point. The films have deep themes and are better than they get credit for.

Yep. Really went downhill for the Cathaginians when the Roman’s brought out their clone army.

>It's in your head, this nod to history is just a coincidence from the idiot, billionaire, George Lucas

What did the Prequels add that the books and comics did not?

Literally everything of value in the EU Jedi civil war era, new jedi order or Thrawn related. Those childrens cartoons about the clone wars added nothing but wank material for sexually frustrated, emotionally stunted incels.

>Buzzword
Yeah, I could excuse the reddit spacing but that makes sense.
You clearly haven't consumed any of the prequel material, let alone the Clone Wars series, I would understand if you preferred Tartakovskywars, but you obviously have no idea. Fuck off.

>accuses me of using buzzwords
>uses his own buzzword

Struck a nerve did I? Please tell me what the prequels added to the universe that was worthwhile? Your Twi'lek waifu doesn't count.

Pro-tip: Anything Tartakovsky will be good. His expertise would gave been better spent on literally any other era in the SW universe.

lmao brainlet