Wait, you're undermining the themes of the story for the sake of cheap subv-

Wait, you're undermining the themes of the story for the sake of cheap subv-

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NO WAIT IT JUST WANT TO TALK TO HI-

Where did this subversion thing started?It's not a twist, it's not satisfying, this is just straight up stupid idea.

Its what non-clever writers think is clever.

D&D liked the Red Wedding so much that they kinda forgot plot twists must be grounded in character motivations, flaws, preestablished rules, and common sense (so that after the reveal you could, looking at whole picture, say it's a reasonable turn of event).

Watch the d&d interviews, its clear its bullshit, they are not even proud or something, they can't even keep eye contact while trying to explain why "uh, we now we pointed in this direction for 7 seasons, but we changed last minute to have a twist, you know, we NEED to have a twist" was a good idea

Absolutely this

Baelor and the Red Wedding are the two most popular episodes and arguably the ones that generated the most "hype". D&D decided to just imitate that by "subverting expectations" for cheap shock value.

Arya trained at a religious temple (the house of black and white) which worships the same god of death that gave rise to the white walkers.

Her killing the night king was paralleled by Jon (a Targaryen) killing Dany. There are a ton of other parallels between episodes 3 and 6. For example, Drogon emerging from the snow parallels the Night King emerging from the fire. The point of these parallels is to raise an important question, which is roughly stated as follows:

>The Night King controls his army through the magic granted to him by his god. The direct parallel is between Dany and her dragons. But does Dany control her dragons, or do her dragons control her?

This is the question which explains why she burned down King’s Landing, and why Drogon soared Jon and melted the iron throne down instead. Try thinking about it real hard, I know it’s tough to be a brainlet but it’s not the writers’ fault you can’t follow the themes of their story.

*spared, not soared

>the same god of death that gave rise to the white walkers.
Nice headcanon. Didn't bother to read further.

>forgot
They never knew, they are obviously where they are bc of nepotism and are not talented story tellers or writers

It’s the writers fault they aren’t talented enough to write a story that communicates on the screen clearly.

D&D thought because Ned's execution and the Red Wedding were huge ratings hits and subversive, they just had to do it again and again. Problem is they don't understand how to properly subvert and only know how to shock. There is no smart twist on themes or a natural progression of consequence, but just the equivalent of a deus ex machina or "out of nowhere a giant dragon came out and ate the hero!". There's nothing intelligent about a twist for the sake of a twist.

>Baelor
She trained for like 3 months max. After she was a blind hobo, and then an oyster seller.
And we must forget the fact that she survived being guts-opened and throw in a dirty sewer.

It's like the kung fu training montage where the protag has to stay on one leg for hours or bring buckets of waters back and forth before learning how to break a wooden plank by bare hand except there Arya never learnt how to break a plank.

In 3 months she went from skillful for a child to legendary fighter and master of sneaky murder

This. Also subversion means subverting the trope. In the Red Wedding case it means that the character did the honorable thing but got punished for it, which we don't expect because we expect characters we like that we consider good to end up making things work. If you look at it, it makes sense.

Making Arya kill the NK out of nowhere is just random as shit.

The Red Wedding is still a stupid scene narratively.

right before i brought the dagger down he shouted
>WAIT! WAIT!
they don't write that part in the scripts, about how they all shit themselves. he could've lingered on the edge of the battle with all the other smart white walkers. and today, his ice queen would be making him miserable, his wights would be ingrates, and he'd be waking up three times in the middle of winter to steal a baby

I wish I could be such a cool contrarian as you.

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WAIT I JUST WANTED TO FIND OUT WHERE DORAN I-

It doesn't serve anything except for Arya's arc, which doesn't go anywhere anyway.

Ned's death accomplishes what the Red Wedding does beforehand, you don't need it.

They should have just left 4 seasons ago and let Vince Gilligan finish it

I don't think you even understand that you're trying to say yourself.

youtube.com/watch?v=QXtGN7ejviw

Aryas story is about revenge and her identity not about the others. Jons story is about the others. Fuck off

Epic.

Go on. Explain the thematic significance of the wedding scene.

>In the Red Wedding case it means that the character did the honorable thing but got punished for it
In the books, yes. In the show he just broke his vow for no reason.

Bait

But it goes nowhere. What did she learn about revenge?

>It doesn't serve anything except for Arya's arc
holy shit brainlet

>Doesn't want to fall into tropes
>Literally falls into tropes when they get ahead of the source material
What did Dabid mean by this?

In the show he did it for love not honor which makes it sad cause you know he loved her but a little bit dumber on the narrative side

She just decides to give up on it after traveling all the way to king's landing

They didnt know what to do with her because the book isnt written. But they rushed it with one line in the show from the hound

>thematic significance of the wedding scene.
What did he mean by this?

Ok cool. Great writing.

>In the show he did it for love
Breaking a vow for love is not honorable.

It's a story. Stupid post-modern writing would go along the lines of, "And the hound died of cancer", and the argument for it would be subversion of traditional thematic tropes. "Well, real life is like that too".

That's why things like Arya offing the Night King don't work, and it's why the Red Wedding, while shocking, is empty in the same way.

Th..thats what i said

Robby Stark got killed because he made a series of mistakes that got him killed so no you're wrong

But what did those mistakes mean?
With Ned, it sets the story. It's a grim show of how pride and shortsightedness can be someone's downfall in this setting. And it launches all the other characters.

No no no fuck you. The red wedding was set up, arya was just random

It means that the characters you expect to win dont. You believe its neds story and then you believe its the heir to winterfells story, but it turns into a story about bastards dwarves and broken things

>cont
But the important thing is that from the beginning it is a story about bastards dwarves and broken things. Its not actually about subverting expectations because those story threads are set up from the very beginning. You just dont notice them because you are distracted by your preconcieved notions (in a way that makes logical sense)

Sure, and that's a good reason for it, and I agree with you.
But what did the wedding add to Jon or Tyrion's characters?