Why does everybody act like Don was super alpha in this scene...

It wasnt about putting him in his place though

Most people here don't actually understand the show.

It was to show the kind of man that Don became.

Sometimes a man just says fuck it. Maybe you lads will learn that some day. Nothing to aspire to or get upset about. Just happens.

From which perspective are you talking?

Don was never alpha, he was never meant to be. He was a cowardly faggot in the war, stole a mans identity, went on to spend the rest of his life selling lies and loathing himself for everything he did.

Did you even watch the show?

How is it not confident? He wanted to sell one of his ideas and get back on the creative horse, and he was confident enough that he could sell his own idea without bringing in Ginsberg's as a backup.

zoomer faggot

He put his personal need for validation ahead of the company's ability to deliver a quality product.

He was afraid his would be rejected because everyone in the office liked Ginsbergs more so he didn't include Ginsbergs like a beta bitch.

It's the perfect encapsulation of his character. It isn't about who you are, but what you say.

This. Dick was LARPing as Don the entire time.

He knew that his idea was a quality product, and the fact that someone might find Ginsberg's better was irrelevant. That is the definition of confidence.

Don is a narcissist who requires external validation. If anything is going to shake his confidence its his peers giving greater approval to someone else's work.

Don's the boss, he gets to decide what gets presented. He is not in competition with Ginsberg. The person Ginsberg needed to convince that his idea was the winner was Don, not the client. The fact that Ginsberg didn't understand this is why this power move was necessary.

>The fact that Ginsberg didn't understand this is why this power move was necessary.
It was a narcissistic fear of failure disguised as a power move.

Because no ones actually seen this show

>Hey Don, you drink, right? You alcoholic motherfucker. Want a drink? I'll buy you a fucking drink. Hey Don, your liver is so shrivelled and black and dead that if you put your ear up to it you can hear it saying, "whatchu talkin' bout, Willis?"

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If he feared failure, he would have brought Ginsberg's idea as a backup. He didn't, because he knew his idea would win the business.

Not everything in the world is a free marketplace of ideas where the best idea always wins. Ginsberg had already fucked up by trying to slip ideas past Don to the client, which is why he doesn't even get to go to client presentations anymore. He needed to be reminded that he works for Don and the firm, not for the client. That's what happened.

man, the incel cope in this thread is sad
>d-don was really a beta faggot
>actually losers like me are the real chads
mhmm, every time

its a quote from atlas shrugged, which burt recommends to don in s1

He was afraid Ginsbergs would be picked over his.

Don was a traumacase who pushed away every good thing in his life.

>If he feared failure, he would have brought Ginsberg's idea as a backup.
No, you're misunderstanding the situation completely. If anything, bringing Ginsberg's idea would increase Don's likelihood of failure for two reasons:

1. It shows they aren't confident about which idea to pick. This is a business failure.

2. It opens up the possibility of the client picking Ginsburg's idea instead of Don's. This is a personal failure.

By bringing one idea (which happened to be his own idea) Don is creating a situation where, at the very least, he doesn't have to suffer the humiliation of Ginsburg's idea being picked over his.

Based and chadpilled. When will incels ever learn

Why the fuck did this kike cut his nipple off

He knew Ginsberg's idea would be picked over his, but that's irrelevant because his idea was also good enough to win the business. So his choices were:

A) Bring in Ginsberg's idea along with his own and continue to inflate the ego of your subordinate who already is punching above your head and not being a team player OR

B) Bring in your own idea, still win the business, and teach your subordinate to sit the fuck down and obey the chain of command.

B solves two problems at the same time. It's the obvious choice to a person with confidence in their own idea. I don't know how to make this any clearer without a flowchart.

Schizophrenia.

This

This. It's similar to when he BTFO out of Peggy over the Cleo award. Letting your subordinates run around like they're hot shit is bad for business overall.

From the man that cut off his own nipple

A sacrifice for the greatest of all nipples

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Psychosis is a hell of a drug.

The fact you have people calling Don "Alpha" should make that extremely clear.

>t. boomer

>He knew Ginsberg's idea would be picked over his, but that's irrelevant
It's not irrelevant. It's the entire point of the elevator scene. He plays it off as a power move when he says he doesn't think about Ginsburg at all, but really he feels threatened by someone coming up with better ideas than him.

Roark to Tooley?

You're projecting your own insecurity onto a character that has shown nothing of the sort. Don is insecure about a lot of shit in his life, but he's never shown anything but confidence in his own ideas.

Don is running a department, and part of that is making sure everyone does their job. Part of Don's job is giving the presentation and selling the idea that the team settles on, which is something Ginsberg could never do because he has no interpersonal skills. Ginsberg is an incredible idea guy, but ultimately he needs to understand that everyone needs to be on the same page for the team to function. Ginsberg sells ideas to Don and Don sells them to the client.

Because Don put him in his place and reminded him where his bread was buttered, Ginsberg gets his shit together and ultimately brings Don the idea that wins their first car.

Don't bother arguing with neets about how a business or part of one is run.

>ultimately he needs to understand that everyone needs to be on the same page for the team to function
Which is why everyone was so enthusiastic about Don's idea compared to Ginsburg's, right?

You're still hung up on this because you're missing the big picture. I think this is hard to understand for people who've never been in management.

>I think this is hard to understand for people who've never been in management.
OK Mr. Manager, I bet you don't think about your subordinates at all either.

Having the best idea is completely meaningless if you can't present it and sell it as such, or if your boss can't stand you because you're such an intolerable sperg.

They don't seem to realize that the dark triad (the core aspects of many chads) includes narcissism. It's not the noble motivations and actions that make Chad. It's the results. A sufficiently ruthless chad will lie and cheat if that's what it takes to win.

He is an ALPHABUCK GENTLESIR with a WARRIOR SKULL

Do you work with any intolerable spergs?

idk what a chad is supposed to be exactly, but dark triad traits can accompany a variety of types of people who I dont think most would call chads. I was under the impression a chad was just a tall, goodlooking, outgoing guy

Every once in a while, but not for long.

Damn, you must be ruthless.

Never saw that show but in context of how it was presented in the thread, A real man doesn’t show weakness and insecurity in the face of an adversary. You take the alpha route and hold the face of confidence.

>tfw there will never be a show as good as mad men/the sopranos

Have you worked with any intolerable spergs?

>Have you worked
You could have cut off that question there user

Yeah and we bully them until they become tolerable or they quit

It's always so odd that people seem to idolize Don

Don is basically a woman. He is given every opportunity simple because he is attractive and people want to like him. But he has no personality, that's literally the struggle he deals with the entire show. He screws over everyone close to him because he's narcissistic. His daughter despises him. His divorces twice over the course of the series. Any co-worker that gets close to him learns that he's a snake.

It misses the entire point of the show, that the old American ideal of keeping up appearances and faking it til you make it are sorely flawed.

This user gets it.

>Don literally handled it like a fucking woman lmao. Instead of being confident in his ideas he passive aggressively screws Ginsberg over out of fear.
That's how alphas do it bitchmade fagcel doodoohead.

This.

why is ginsberg such a good looking chad in silicon valley?

Part of being in management is making sure your clients get the best possible product. Did Don do that?

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The best according to who?

>muh subjectivism

BASED Ron

youtu.be/M1Wl91bnAMI?t=54

>dude he is an alpha chad like me! if you actually see the entire point of the show in him you are just projecting!

It's a serious question, there's no objective measure of what idea is better when you're talking about something like advertising.

>an advertisement isn't subjective
Wew

If you watch the scene where they come up with the ideas, people react way more enthusiastically to Ginsburg's idea. Like you said, ads are subjective, but it seems like the writers were trying to make the viewer understand that Ginsburg's idea was the best.

Wrong. Don won't think of him because he won. Ginsberg will be thinking of him because he was bested. The situations would probably be reversed if Don's was rejected and Ginsberg was chosen. The point? Even if Don's ego isn't that strong, since he's the one in power, he gets what he wants.

It doesn't matter if the team is more enthusiastic about Ginsberg's idea. Don is ultimately the one who has to decide, and he's the one who has to sell it to the client.

Do you think Ginsberg's idea for Jaguar, as good as it was, would have won without Don giving the pitch for it? What good is having the best idea if you can't convince other people it's the best idea?

>Don won't think of him because he won
See

>Part of Don's job is giving the presentation and selling the idea that the team settles on
>It doesn't matter if the team is more enthusiastic about Ginsberg's idea
You're doublethinking

Yeah, and he chose wrong because of his ego.

Dilate

See
He made the correct choice of the two options he had.

this is the right answer and the entirety of Mad Men is encapsulated by the pic of seething wojak wearing the smart wojak mask

And? I implied he doesn't have a strong ego. The point is he doesn't think about Ginsberg.

Imagine if a tyrant had some out-spoken critic killed just he what the critic was saying of him, (and let's assume he got away with it scot-free). The tyrant, (especially if his power wasn't actually threatened, reveals a real insecurity, weak ego, and a meanness that puts him below the least of his subjects. However, he may never think of that critic again, and that is what power brings.

>I don't think about you at all

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Okay, makes sense. But if he would have lost the business it would have made him look extremely weak. It already made him look insecure by choosing his.

But Ginsberg wasn't just a critic of Don, his ideas were better.

But he didn't, because his idea was good enough and he knew it.

Really, the "Don is the alpha because he unfairly screwed over somebody who had a better idea to put him in his place," and the "Don does think of Ginsberg and it actually quite pathetic" positions are both wrong, but the former more so.

Don is an insecure man when his station is threatened, but as long as he's on the top, he really almost has bigger problems than thinking about being overtaken. He's not as great or "alpha" as you might think, (though he's pretty great at bedding women and he's still the best in the business), but at that point, he really didn't care about Ginsberg.

>his ideas were better
Eh, not really. Otherwise, he would have done much farther. Really, do you think Don gave a shit about him after the writers ineptly wrote Ginsberg out of the sh- I mean, Ginsberg went nuts? Yeah, I'm sure Don stayed up at night thinking Ginsberg would leave the loony bin and overtake Don.

Fair enough, but you're also admitting that he does in fact think about Ginsberg if the whole thing was to put him in his place.

See
Don made the incorrect choice by going with his idea, which his team saw as inferior to Ginsberg's. He didn't care what the team wanted, he went with his idea because it was his idea not because it was the best idea. The only rebuttal is a weak boomerism along the line of "well sometimes you have to choose the wrong choice in order to put people in their place" which admits that he was wrong lmao.

Roark to Thooey in the Fountainhead, yes. It’s not in Atlus Shrugged.

Ginsberg had better ideas, but he couldn't sell them like Don could.

fpbp

What good is having good ideas if you can't actually convince anyone they're good ideas? Or if you're not in a position to get those ideas to the right person?

Why should Don respect Ginsberg's good ideas if Ginsberg doesn't respect Don's ability to pick the best ideas and sell them to clients?

This shit is an overglorified soap opera

Well, I have to admit, it's been a while since I watched the show, so that might be the case. Still, the issue of Draper being threatened by Ginsberg I know wasn't a central theme of the show. Maybe that's something the writers failed to cultivate, (like Campbell pursing Don's job being, sensibly, dropped after the first season), but again, I really doubt Don actually felt inferior to Ginsberg. Sure, from a rational perspective, Don's actions were quite petty, and Ginsberg was right on some level to feel sorry for him, (which is what most audiences don't get, unfairly interpreting what he said as sour grapes). However, this insecure man could have honestly acquiesced in his power and authority and, when his power and status wasn't actually threatened, didn't actually think of Ginsberg.

It's really not either, "Don is an alpha," or "Don is a omega," but both, and neither.

No that's The Sopranos

Take this box.

It honestly it. However, I'm not convinced drama narrative drama is ever done well on television.
>Sopranos
lol, nope. Can't really pick between those shows. I at least watched all of Mad Men, and I really like the visuals. Writing, as usual, leaves much to be desired.

Haven't see BB or The Wire

The truth:
Drama: TVTV

Imagine being this much of a pleb

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Fuck:

Comedy: Movies

Different user, but I dont think wrong or right has too much to do with it.

It may be a boomerism, thats hard to argue- but in the position of a leader there are intuitive decision-making processes that do not make sense to someone who is not in the position of power, and it is for that reason that the power dynamic is what it is.

It is a calculated risk, but ultimately the right decision contrary to what you say. If Dons idea is not the best, but still good enough to adequately meet his goals for the business, then it will be the right course of action- allowing ideas from potential adversaries can in the long run be detrimental because at that point you as the leader may invite self-doubt, the doubt of others etc. which cedes some of your control, and in your control is the inherent knowledge that you will consistently find solutions to problems and steer your team/ tribe to prosperity.

From a utilitarian standpoint it can sound unfair or counterintuitive, but it certainly makes sense. This also goes to show that Don may not be as organically alpha as he wishes, nonetheless he at least knows how to maintain his position of leadership without making disastrously wrong choices for the company in this example.

>I dont think wrong or right has too much to do with it
>It is a calculated risk, but ultimately the right decision
Again, you're doublethinking.

>splitting hairs in word usage instead of actually arguing points
get a load of this guy

Come on man. I’m talking about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ the way you are using it, redefined the situation from a different perspective, and then showed you how in this context it was ‘right’.

Complexity is not the same as double-think

>I’m talking about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ the way you are using it
No, you clearly said "I dont think wrong or right has too much to do with it." You never specifically mentioned anything about the way I was using it. Don't try to say it was obviously implied to be the way I was using 'right' and 'wrong' either, because, as I'm sure anyone reading this will agree, there was no obvious implication.

I read the whole back-and-forth between mr manager and the sperglord and I gotta say I'm seething, I dont want to give mr sperg a (((you))), someone please tell him to have sex ASAP. most annoying posts I've ever read

Don is being an alpha, it's his company, he pays Ginsburg to come up with ideas and he gets to pick the final product, end of story.
Of course the scene is meant to illustrate Don acting like a bully to push down more talented competition but he's definitely still being an alpha

You're either baiting or out of your depth, and it doesn't really matter which.

>this is the right answer and the entirety of Mad Men is encapsulated by the pic of seething wojak wearing the smart wojak mask

This. Except for Pete who is seething wojak wearing the seething wojak mask.

it's like breaking bad. the scenes where walt panics because someone's making him feel like a loser and so he spergs out with some angry-teacher monologue, and every youtube comment is "da most baddass scene ever"

Now begs the question: Do you feel sorry for me, or do you not think about me at all?

have you ever felt like a cockroach

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Right

youtu.be/dwwHmAF2iR8

Was he really an alien?

what upsets me the most is that they gave ginsberg a really shitty ending. he had arch.

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i ment, he had no arch