Is this one of the greatest films ever made?

I never really thought about it but now that you mention it.. Good point user.

Hopefully we get a resurgence of movies like that again one day.

Probably not though.

I agree but in the right hands it might be able to be done.

Also depends which country it would be made in, considering most of the scenes would include black slaves being treated as slaves.

Nah, obese brando ruined it

>downward spiral to insanity
you understood absolutely nothing about this movie

He elevated it

I'm conflicted about it, as was Walter Murch who edited the redux (and also did sound design on The Godfather 1 & 2, and The Conversation).

The scene breaks up the film, gives it a period of calm, and I don't know if that's necessary. It's also like a point where they enter a dream world. It's like passing through a gate marked with statues of deities.
So it sort of strengthens the rest of the film, which are almost like fantasy.
But I don't think passing through that gate is necessary. I think there is enough dreamlike madness and fantasy already, that they pass through that gate simply by coming to Vietnam. Because life in the city there, and in the military bases, is already insane, and at the camp with the idols who come to sing, that is also already mad enough. The film gives this break to pass into a kind of spirit world, but we're already there.

Historically, it makes the film more honest, because the ghosts of the french are of course very important to the real story. And the scene itself, is very good, and holds up well on its own.

But thematically, and in terms of pacing the story, I think it's unnecessary.

Yes, yes it is. I've seen it drunk, high, tripping, sleep deprived, and sober and it was a masterpiece every time. I also agree that the pacing is absolutely perfect. The redux was completely unnecessary.

The only thing brando could elevate at that time was burgers and soda

I think the Redux is the version to rewatch but it's not the version to watch.
It's like how I feel about the LOTR extended editions. They aren't better films, but they do give you more of the world.

Some extended editions of films (ridley scott films for example) are just the definitive versions, but even as much as i respect walter murch, I don't think that's the case for Apocalypse Now

Care to elaborate?

>The scene breaks up the film, gives it a period of calm, and I don't know if that's necessary. It's also like a point where they enter a dream world.
It's like when you move through the dirty and crowded streets of paris and then enter a luxury hotel in an old building. Everyone has experieced that feeling in some ways and it shows the thin line between our orderly life and chaos

the story is about men creating something out of nothing and the men who hunt such men

it explores the different kinds of people and how they perceive the will imposed on them by authority - the lengths they go to escape it, how they negotiate with it, and how they sustain themselves without the material benefits of serving an authority.

It's a gradient as the movie goes on.
-the heart of authority, in Saigon, where there is peace. Everyone believes the bullshit and pretends its okay.
-the fringes of civilization, Killgore's camp. They understand the prescribed way to do things is bullshit, but they have the resources and connections to make things easy enough for them, so they work for authority and take a few liberties as they can
-french plantation, they embraced chaos and survive independently, living better further away from authority
-bridge base, they live far away from authority like the french, but are so terrorized between their enemies and their masters, they utterly fall to pieces and are forced to make serious sacrifices and deep personal changes to survive
-kurtz's town, this is the point of the whole movie, total removal from authority and the dynamics of human behavior as they struggle to understand their nature and the moral bias they entered with, but had to erase and reprogram in order to survive.

Kurtz is not insane.

He converted to the jungle and it was his only move.

How could he be insane when the jungle offered him true humanity and judgement and his masters offered him nothing but slavery and unconditional damnation?

This is the starting point for real discussion.

>Kurtz is not insane.
>Everyone has a good side and a bad side - a conscious and an unconscious. America was the same way in Vietnam, and in Apocalypse Now, Colonel Kurtz represents the unconscious, which we all have inside of us. He represents the dark side of the United States, which is why black is such an important color in the film.
from a Storaro interview

Moral bias is a product of servitude. The only purpose of morality is to have quick answers to common questions when working in a particular system toward a particular goal.
You see how the people who tried to defend their bias end up. They go insane, vacillating perpetually between their usual behavior and what they have to do to survive in the jungle.
They keep telling themselves that they aren't being led astray, and then when the proof comes that they are, they double down on their delusions and break mentally, ceasing to be able to interact with either the jungle or their home.

But you see how the French adapted and you see how Kurtz adapted - they sorted their values and kept the ones they reckoned most important and dispensed with the ones that were disadvantageous, and so they thrive.

>It's a masterpiece, right?
if you're talking about the theatrical cut, then yes

> avoid Aguirre
plen.
> French arc is pleb filter
You mean if you like it you are pleb? yes

what is your point supposed to be?
I know this story better than them.
They just stole the guts from the Heart of Darkness.

that quote makes him sound like a fucking retard

what makes 'dark' dark? what a retard.

The capeshit of acclaimed films

Kurtz is insane by western standards.
He's an abomination created by the US military and the rude conditions of the war and that the americans want to hide and suppress. The fact that you feel sympathetic toward this character is intentional as the same charm and charisma that led the natives to follow Kurtz affects Williard and the viewer. Kurtz is a representation of small-time dictators that have absolute power and freedom over their subjects.
If you want to discuss the definition of insanity and argue that he's not insane that's a different matter and I don't agree with that characterization.

>If you want to discuss the definition of insanity
the entire point of the movie is that western standards didn't exist ANYWHERE IN THE MOVIE AT ANY TIME so you argument is totally meaningless.

again, you do not get the point of this at all, you are constantly trying to extract something out of the movie that will get you called a "GOOD BOY".
You simply don't have the courage to even begin questioning this story, or yourself.

>avoid Aguirre.
Whoa there buddy hold on

the fact that standards disappear in war zones is a key point of the movie, but doesn't mean that we can't judge Kurtz actions (which is what ultimately Willard did).
>ANYWHERE IN THE MOVIE AT ANY TIME
there is in the redux

The ending is rushed and yes I know it's like that in the book I've read it