Can anyone who read the books elaborate on the issue between King Thranduil and King Thrór?

Where was this detailed? HOTM a Silmaril? Lol

Too jewy

He wasn't powerful enough.

Damn, why is he so handsome? I'd suck on his ears

Ah, I will see if I can read up on it. Thanks user!

How is it that Elrond was more worthy of a seat than Thranduil even though he's a legit King of a realm?

It isn't, but he thinks it might be which is why he takes the risk of mobilising his army while the Necromancer still lingers in Mirkwood.

We're discussing his motivations, not whether or not HoTM is a silmaril.

Sindarin Elves aren't from Valinor, they've never been granted the wisdom of the Arda or walked beneath the light of the Two Trees.

They're wild savages compared to High Elves.

Elrond is quite literally one-quarter angelic. Everyone else on the council came from Valinor.

Elrond's mom was Luthien. That opens every door.

OUT OF MY WAY TELERI FUCKING SHITS

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Fucking nepotism

Thranduil descends from the elves that never went to Valinor. He neither understands the big picture in the same way as the Noldor nor is he taking orders from the Valar like the Wizards. He's a nobody in comparison.

>Tfw you realize Tolkien's work isn't about good deeds of everyday folk winning over corrupt evil, but about characters being predestined to defeat evil because it is within their blood to do so
What a hack. How can anyone say he's better than GRRM?

Its bullshit created for the movie.

>command an army of elves within the greenwood
>on dol goldor's doorstep, faced darkness repeatedly sacrificing the life of his own men in doing so
>in harmony with nature, especially middle earth, therefore more entitled to a seat on the council of MIDDLE FUCKING EARTH since their not in valinor
>still gets scorned and cucked by fucking bearded dirty wizards, (((elrond and galadriel)))

Legolas should've stabbed galadriel and celeborn in Lorien

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Does that bar him from ever being made to understand? Have his fellow elves never took him aside and explained it to him? Again, leader of a fucking realm. They would have come in handy in the fight against Sauron if Legolas is any indication.

alright, what is exactly are the Silmarils? i know that they are jewls that contain the last vestiges of light from the Twin Trees, but do they actually DO anything? or are they just really fucking shiny jewels

Yes, because Ungoliant devoured the light of the Two Trees. There will never be any more High Elves, when they die they have to go wait in the Hall of The Undying until another Elf has a child so they can be reincarnated. Arwen is the Reincarnation of Luthien, which is a bit weird as she is her own Grandma.

They warp reality around themselves. People become gentler and more wise in their presence.

>Arwen is the Reincarnation of Luthien, which is a bit weird as she is her own Grandma.
This is literally not true. She became mortal when she died and joined Beren into the afterlife for humanity.

Only the power of a Silmaril can make him a High Elf.

Elves can't give up their humanity, Elendil did because Beren was Human and Arwen could because she was also Half Elven, so how did she manage that?

Arwen is definitely the reincarnation of someone, though, if nit Luthien someone else.

They burn dark lords and get backstabbing elfshits and their children killed. Pretty nifty desu.

This. Legolas is even the token elf that goes with the fellowship throughout their quest. Really unfair how they treated the silvan elves in Middle Earth

Mandos took pity on her and allowed her to join Beren in the afterlife. Literally the only elf to ever be granted this.

In the First Age, and my memory is very hazy here, but some of Feanor's sons and some Dwarves of Nargothrond got into a pretty bad beef and slaughtered each other a few times. I think the dwarves were being cunty, but all of Feanor's sons were gigantic bitches. The fight had something to do with some jewelry.

False. His mom was not Luthien, that was his grand mother. Beren and Luthien had Earendil, who married someone and those two had Elrond and his brother.

Silvan Elves are brainlets conoared to the Noldor though, they only get taken seriously for their links to the Sindarin TELERI FUCKING SHITS.

>backstabbing elfshits
Based. Fuck the (((Noldor))).

Pretty cool, gonna read that book.

These movies are so fucking stupid, what an astounding waste of time and resources

Not entirely true. Sindar elves were led by one of the original elves that went to Valinor and came back to lead the rest over the sea. But Thingol got pussy whipped and stayed in Doriath and started his own kingdom. Sindarin elves have seen the light of the two trees in the eyes of Thingol and Melian, so they are far and away "higher" than Silvan elves. Silvan elves are the savages, who heard the call to Valinor but didn't give two shits about it. Most of Lorien and Mirkwood are populated by Silvan elves, but lead by Sindar or Noldor.

Reincarnation is absolutely not a real thing in the Lotr books. There is resurrection, but they always come back as themselves. No one in the stories have ever died and their spirit has come back as someone else.

It's been a long time since I've read any of the books, does it ever explain why humans went from gigachads to such weak fucks?

>Sindarin elves have seen the light of the two trees in the eyes of Thingol and Melian, so they are far and away "higher" than Silvan elves.
Can someone explain what makes the the light of the two trees so special that anyone that sees or basks in it literally is elevated to a higher status regardless of their deeds or background?

That is literally what the Hall of the Undying is for, Sauron. You can't trick me again!

The guys who save the world are some random Hobbits though

Closer, but you're also slightly off. Beren and Luthien had Dior, who married Nimloth and had Elwing. Tuor and Idril had Earendil, who married Elwing and had Elrond and Elros before shoving a flying boat into a dragons face. pic related

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People tend to forget that Frodo and Bilbo come from a long line of gentle-hobbits. The hobbits who were close to the elves if I remember correctly. (Could have bloodlines of all three prominent hobbit lines.)

Also the relationship between Sam and Frodo, which ironically is often viewed as homosexual through modern eyes, is a favorable commentary on the English caste system. Sam called Frodo "Mr. Frodo" for a reason.

Boromir had a trace of Elf blood?

That light is direct link to Eru, having passed beneath it grants certain passive buffs to STR, MAG, INT and CHA as well as an OP ability to literally stop fucking time.

They fell from Grace, Aragorn was the first man since Isiludur to have Eru's blessing, which is why he was so long lived.

lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Two_Trees_of_Valinor

"The Silmarillion repeatedly states that those Elves who saw the Two Trees were mighty, with the light of Aman in their faces. As vassals of the Valar, the trees somehow bestowed otherworldy power and understanding on those exposed to them. Galadriel in particular had an affinity to Laurelin, as her hair was said to have captured the golden light of that tree. In turn this inspired Feanor to make the jewels that could hold that same light; the Silmarils."

I believe, like anything else from LOTR, the closer something is to Eru the more powerful it is. I am assuming being close to something of sheer cosmic power would affect you in some way.

Think of it like beneficial magic radiation.

>often viewed as homosexual
Faggots think everything is about their sickass fetish.

They were lovers. This will be expanded upon in great detail, with copious scenes of them having sex (complete with after-sex flaccid elven cock shots), in the upcoming LOTR TV series.

Silvan Elves are literal dipshit morons who are both terrible at fighting and too stupid to realize how much they suck:

>The Silvan Elves were hardy and valiant, but ill-equipped with armour or weapons in comparison with the Eldar of the West; also they were independent, and not disposed to place themselves under the supreme command of Gil-galad. Their losses were thus more grievous than they need have been, even in that terrible war. Malgalad and more than half his following perished in the great battle of the Dagorlad, being cut off from the main host and driven into the Dead Marshes. Oropher was slain in the first assault upon Mordor, rushing forward at the head of his most doughty warriors before Gil-galad had given the signal for the advance.

No. The blessing was to the bloodline, not individuals. The Ranger Kings of the North all had those blessings, they just remained isolated from the rest of the human realms to guard the North to protect Bree and the Shire.

Not faggots. Women, and the weak men who have lost touch with fraternity.

>Think of it like beneficial magic radiation.
Huh, what an oddly poetic way of putting it.

>gimli and Legolas are actually related
sounds kino

It's a pretty straight-forward Catholic allegory for Grace of God.

Fuck me, you're right. Nice pic, too. Thanks.

I was always under the impression that the Dol Amroth men were only rumored to be part elf, but if that tree is correct, then yes, there is a small bit of elf there.

not quite. the dwarves (and other elves) hold grudges against the noldor- Elrond's folk (well, gil-galads)- for all their autism teamkilling when people took their stuff, but in the book they're mad because thranduil (unnamed in book) is entitled to a lot of the jewels, as is bard/men for all the stuff they did, but thorin and crew won't give it back. he just detains them for trespassing because if there's one thing Tolkien's elves aren't, it's willing to forgive violations of the NAP.

more than this, thranduil was butthurt cause his dad was a retard during the war of the last alliance and rushed head-first into the orcs with a small, lightly-armored contingent before gil-galad gave the word, because they refused to listen to the descendants of "friendly fire" feanor, and resultantly got slaughtered.
he comes around though, he's not hateful, just a little bitter

Fuck off Elrond I can smell your post from here

Not all humans were gigachads. There were about 3 lines of "decent men" that helped the elves and were chads, but they didn't fully level up until Elros switched his traits to be a man and respawned with a 600 year lifespan. Thousands of years of breeding with lesser men is what caused the decline in lifespan.

>Elrond is quite literally one-quarter angelic.
1/16th, 6.25%

Okay so imagine you're in a world where there's three tiers of holy beings, Angels small g gods(who are really just the chief angels), and Capital G God, Eru Illuvitar.
The gods have invited as many of the Elves as they can find to travel west and come live with them. Some of the ones that start quit halfway, but still a lot make it to their island.
And remember that the world is still always in the dark of the night, only light is the starlight.
And when they get to this island, they have two these HUGE as FUCK trees that shine with the literal brilliance of God, one with a great bright light and one with a softer pale light. How intense they shine waxes and wanes opposite of the other. And the best time of day is when they're both about even.

Baggins's were a mix of Fallohide and Harfoot, Brandybucks were had a splash of Stoor, so Frodo had literally all 3 types of hobbit in his blood.

So, basically, all/most of the blessed bloodlines died leaving a majority of humans severely weakened?

Where my BLACK elves BE AT?!!

higher res

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Apparently. A quick google search indicates that this information is given in Unfinished Tales, which I admittedly haven't read yet.

It also has to do with the light of the Two Trees, as with the other things in Valinor, being uncorrupted by Morgoth, unlike Middle Earth, where the very ground itself had been corrupted by Him, which is why elves "fade" if they don't travel the Undying Lands eventually. But you're pretty much right about the Trees yeah.

It also has to do with the Numenorean bloodlines being preserved in the royal lines much like how royal blood was preserved and intermingled in Europe through the last several hundred years. Royalty tends to marry other royalty, and not just because they disdain commoner scum. It was popular belief in medieval Europe that nobility were better than commoners by blood, and so they preserved those lineages, which Tolkien reflected in his works.

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Because that's more honest than anything Martin has ever written down

I'm not sure that's the reason. Sometimes the blood of someone runs true in one direction. It's said in the books that the blood of Westernesse ran almost 100% in Denethor. He would not have been able to use the palantir had he not been damn near a full Dunadan. He still got fucked over by it, but the movies' portrayal of Denethor was fucked.

Why were the elves under his command such brutes? They were nothing like the elves of Galadriel.

could feanor have solod mordor?

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All the special humans lived on a island off the coast of Middle Earth. But then they turned evil so God sank the island. Some good ones left and came to Middle Earth and founded two kingdoms in the north and south, Arnor and Gondor. Arnor got fucked up by the Witch King (the Rangers are the descendants of the survivors) while Gondor basically slowly declined for 3000 years.

Easy to shit talk Silvan elves when all the others use hacks to fight wars

>when killstreak is high enough, call in a flying ship that shoots dragon killing lazers
>when Men show up with a huge army, enter World Editor mode and make the world round and drown them
>simply respawn when a balrog kills you

The elves under Galadriel were just done with all this shit, they'd been dealing with Melkor and Sauron for thousands of years and they were losing.
They just wanted to say fuck it and go back to Valinor.

>B-BUT MUH SILMARILS
Get fucked

>beneficial magic radiation

Only 3.6 roentgens, Fëanor Kinslayer. Nothing to worry about. These Silvan shits are delusional. Perhaps someone should get them to Rivendell for healing?

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Thank you! I had a feeling they had a touch of all three.

My point still remains, they weren't "random hobbits." Predestination is a running theme in LOTR and in Catholicism.

Most of the supermen died in LOTR's Atlantis called Numenor. These men, especially the Kings, were gifted with blessings for taking a stand in the great war which destroyed their homes. They built great steam wonders, created colonies, lived in a damn near Utopia. All ended when the last king Ar-Pharazon (SP? Note the Egyptian sounding name,) was obsessed with living forever and mobilized against Valinor after Sauron manipulated him.

Eru sunk the mobilized Numenorean fleet and the island of Numenor save for the "Faithful" who sailed east and established the kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor which were unified by a High King. These kingdoms were largely populated by "middle men", men who were nor rewarded in centuries prior. The nobility and royalty of these kingdoms were Numenorean however.

Aragon descends from these kings.

All of the older elves were growing weary as the magic of the world faded. Legolas and his kin were fairly young in comparison and hung around.

yeah, it's one of the many reasons the Nazgul are so fucking terrified of glorfindel. on his own, he could take on balrogs, but add in reincarnation almost instantly for his self-sacrifice, the light of the two trees, and blessing of the valar he's basically an angel himself

he's sent on the same mission as the maiar and literally is denied from the fellowship because he's so fuckshit powerful he literally can't go on a stealth mission

goddamn why was earendil so based

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Then why the fuck wouldn't the elves want them in the hands of melkor and sauron? Maybe they'd renounce their edgelord ways and become kawaii ugu too

>Yo dawg imma borrow this boat? We cool?

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Was Earendil the one who sailed Valinor despite being a man, and the let him in anyway? That's some fucking balls on that guy.

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>Aragon descends from these kings.
To specify Aragorn was descended from the 4th king of numenor, Tar Elendil through his daughter.
He's not descended from the following kingsof Numenor like Ar Pharazon, the 25th king of Numenor.

but I don't like Elrond that much, glorf and gilly is where it's at
Elrond is just some faggot that wants to sit back and let everyone else do the heavy lifting

Yep

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Guess I gotta reread the Silmarillion since I can't remember any of that.

If I didn't specify that, then my mistake. You are correct.

Read the simarillion doofus

No, he was Half-Elven and later decided to become full Man. The boat in question is named Vingilot and he sailed it into battle (it could literally fly) to kill....well you know...

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It just runs in the family I guess. Between Hurin, Turin, and fucking Fingolfin, his being based was basically preordained Actually, it quite literally was, by Ulmo. Elrond is a little bitch compared to basically all his forefathers, though admittedly that's a trend in Tolkien just in general.

I mean, he was half-elven, albeit that half being Noldor which arguably just made it worse, but yeah that's him.

Unironically yes.

I thought he went elf because of his wife.

He chose Elf, because that's what his wife did. Earendil wanted to be a man, though.

>Legolas should've stabbed galadriel
probably wouldn't work

Pleb opinion. Movies had some dumb stuff but top tier performances, costumes, design...

Why the fuck not

what if she sang

Stab her with his immortal cock, you mean.

I just have to say: LOTR threads are some of the most civil, comfy, and frenliest threads TV produces. It's always a pleasure to participate.

Cheers boys.

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You're right. My mistake.

I forgot Manwë let it slide and he was the only mortal at the time before or since to set foot on the Undying Lands.

Because Kin-slaying happens to be a big fucking deal amoungst honorable races in LOTR.

Take off your post-modernist goggles.

>advice feanor

t. seething teleri

sersh?

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First mortal, yes, but I think all surviving members of the fellowship would've been allowed access. Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo definitely went over, and apparently Gimli. Aragorn could not, but he had a chad way of dying by simply laying down and dying whenever the fuck he wanted.

had a horrible one a few days ago, but yeah usually lotr threads are good on tv, tg and v

t. bastard spawn of Feanor that doesn't know when or how to quit

His family came from the kingdom of doriath, their king wanted a silmaril crafted into jewellry, the dwarves did that, he refused to pay, they killed him sacked doriath and thats how the feud between dwarves and elves started

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but legolas is a teleri, and that's why he wouldn't kinslay

>or since
I mean, technically Ar-Pharazon did as well, although he's sure as hell regretting it in the Caves of the Forgotten with whoever else of his host stepped foot on Aman. Some members of the Fellowship got that privilege as well, specifically the ring bearers, Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo, as has pointed out. And yeah, Gimli also went, in part because he got a pass from Galadriel, and also in part because his bromance with Legolas was so strong that not even the Valar would break them up, and Legoland wanted to go so Gimli came with, only dwarf to ever do so.

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One of their fruits become the moon and the other becomes the sun. You're not talking about common trees user.

Silmarils were special because apparently they contained something similar to the creator's fire which Morgoth was looking after.

so this dude didnt even get off of valinor before he started kinslaying right? lmao

just imagine someone taking something very important from you

silmarils weren't just "something important". When an elf woman births a child, sometimes part of their fire/spirit/soul (fea) is put in them, as happened with Feanor's mom. Silmarils and Feanor had the same relationship, Morgoth literally violated his soul by trying to claim them.

i dont remember that anywhere, proofs?

Elrond also has the greatest of the 3, Vilya, can't believe no-one mentioned that

give us back our boats you kinslaying cunt

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The Silmarils contained the light of the Trees, something not even Aule himself could capture in his works, and which Feanor couldn't replicate, even if the Two Trees were still around. They were special because they possessed that light, which after the rape of the Two Trees was the only real source of it in Arda save the sun and moon which even then was just a last effort at salvaging the trees, as well as their being the single greatest crafted work in all of creation, on par with some of the works of the Valar. And Maedhros and Maglor just casually chuck them away / jump into a volcano or some shit with them because they were salty about being unable to touch them because of their own evil deeds.

To be fair, he didn't originally have any of the Three, he just inherited Gil-Galad's after Sauron burned his face off, because there really wasn't anybody else who really deserved to possess it on ME at the time, barring Cirdan and Galadriel who already had the other two.

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regardless he still had it

>based Gimli gets three hairs of Valinor light from Galadriel
>cucks Legolas out of a benefit which has only been available to the highest of elves

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>Cirdan
Gandalf had Narya, cirdain gave it to him

go to bed elrond

True, but that wasn't until the Third Age, after the War of the Last Alliance when Gil-Galad was killed. At the time of Gil-Galad's death Cirdan still had Narya, they wouldn't have given him Vilya as well when Elrond was also there, I don't think.

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and its the thrid age we are talking about since the question is why was Elrond on the council and not thranduil, try and keep up

>implying
I was just pointing out that Elrond wasn't Vilya's original owner, and had inherited it in part because Cirdan already had Narya at the time. Thranduil fought in the Last Alliance as well, if he deserved a spot on the White Council over Elrond he might have inherited Vilya over him as well though probably not, since Elrond was Gil-Galad's herald and as such likely topped the list either way. Besides, IIRC Cirdan was also on the Council himself anyway, ring or no.

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Do we even know that based thrannie even wanted on the white council?

Did Thranduil even want a seat on the council? He seemed hellbent on isolating himself

what the fuck

yea thats cirdain of course he's on the council, until he leaves, anywaymy point was literally everything is stacked in Elronds favor as being hugely influential, he's got the blood he's got the age he's got a kingdom and he's got the fucking ring

as far as I know your right, that other user was asking why he didn't get a seat and elrond did, but yea as far as I know he probably wouldn't have shown up even if he did have one

>It sounds to me like Tolkien was referring to the Sack of Doriath all the way back in the Second Age. The Silmarillion outlines what happened.

This. Also in the early versions of The Hobbit, Thranduil basically was Thingol and the whole story was loosely set in the First Age; Gandalf tells Thorin that it’s futile to seek vengeance on the Necromancer because he’s been in hiding since Beren and Luthien kicked his ass.

Honestly we don't. His father Oropher lived in Doriath during the first age though, and both of them fought in the Last Alliance which is when Oropher died, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume Thranduil might have some interest in those affairs. The thing is though, as points out, is that he was essentially isolationist, likely owing to his position as Teleri leader of a kingdom of lesser elves that probably don't care about these things, and probably don't have as much knowledge of them either. He does have to think of the concerns of the people he represents, who probably wanted nothing to do with anything until Sauron showed up in their back yard.

Well you'll get no argument from me on that front, Elrond having a seat shouldn't even be a question imo

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I love lotr threads, thanks guys you made me remember a lot of stuff I had already forgotten

>Bregolas

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if the two trees give super blessings to people and galadriels hair captured their essence why didnt they just have the fellowship all sniff her hair and go beat up sauron
yet another plothole tolkien you fucking hack

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If you must read the books to appreciate the movies then the movies are rubbish.

she looks like a granny tranny doing cosplay

Gay

idk why but i keked hard