/got/
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>no irri handmaiden gf
it hurts bros
STANNIS
Danyfags are mentally ill
she does have a problem with slavery, but she decides to buy the unsullied anyway because she needs them for her conquest. that’s the main thing with dany - she’s a good-hearted girl who cares about other people, but her first priority is the throne, and she’s willing to do unconscionable things in her efforts to claim it.
unironically no worse than stannisfags
I wish she was my mom
>no scene where irri nibbles dany’s nips and gets her off
>instead gets choked to death by a lysene slattern
Quick. Post your top five non-Ice and Fire GRRM short stories. Mine are: Bitterblooms, Sandkings, The Pear Shaped Man, The Ice Dragon, and A Song for Lya.
What is he thinking of right now?
>Drogon will remember that
1st for the thighs that were promised
They have about the same levels of cope
>not paying for slaves is evil
>paying for slaves is evil
>freeing slaves is evil because muh regional stability
>sailing away without slaves is evil because then they're still enslaved
wow GRRM sure did a good job of making Dany look unreasonable freeing them slaves, if that was ever his intention.
the description of the Unsullied's training was specifically written as so horrible SPECIFICALLY TO MOTIVATE Dany to become a slave-freeing incineratrix.
I was quoting the mindset of madDanyfags. see
Do you think Reek can still be cute? Despite the major physical and emotional abuse, the white hair, the missing teeth and fingers, the emaciated look, his lack of penis?
You are looking at what she did and not why she did it. She was just larping as a liberator because it advanced her goals. The fact that you fell for GRRM's ruse does not make him a shitty writer.
>dragon fire blows up buildings and ships on contact in KL
>doesn't gib infantry
fuck these inconsistent retards
reek died in book 2. his name is THEON GREYJOY
Danyfags can’t be reasoned with. They have no understanding of nuance, don’t reply to them
yes, this is what's going to happen. and it's not going to work for most readers.
GRRM thinks he's written a tragic bittersweet ending, but what he's really written is going to come off as an autistic farce.
well, Tyrion has a qt dwarf gf in teh books. I'm sure there's still time for Dany to set her on fire or something.
but you get the to point quite readily: this is going to be a story where everyone is a fucking asshole and the reader gets alienated from absolutely everyone, because GRRM has gotten caught up in being an edgelord and thinks it will work as satisfying drama.
keep pretending you think I haven't read the books if you want, it doesn't matter.
It's not how we got to the ending that's the problem, it's the ending itself
>Can a manstill be cute if he's broken?
>That is the only time a man canbecute
It's both
Been a while since I read the books but didn't fAgeon buy the Golden Company? Other than striking first at the Stormlands, the optics aren't much different from Dany's. He is still a foreign fuck, aided by exiles, to usurp the throne.
mourning for the downfall of a character you used to love isn’t the same as alienation. besides, there’s still plenty of characters pursuing admirable goals, even if no one in the series is 100% innocent (except shireen i guess)
You picked the wrong series to get into friend. ASoIaF has always been maximum edge.
When the Lannister army approached KL and Aerys II 'Mad King' Targaryen listened to Grandmaester Pycelle to open up the gates, Vyserion & Daenerys were taken by their grandmother/aunt(?) to Dragonstone. Vyserion was 7-9 years old, while she was 4 or 5. I might be wrong with their age but I'm too lazy to check right now while writing this.
Aaaaaaanyway, while she and her brother were prepared to embark a boat, they both heard how the Lannister army were starting to pillage & kill through KL. During the carnage, the bells were ringing. Dany never understood the grand picture what was truly happening but she knew instinctively that it was really bad (as she heard noies, especially screams). Vyserion understood a bit better than her that it was over for the Targaryens in Westeros and that people were being slaughtered. Nevertheless, Daenerys innocence & subconcious memories remembered only the bells and the faint noises and screams.
Fast forward when she's on top of Drogon waiting on the wall, the Lannister army occupying the city surrendered, she destroyed any chance for Cersei to win and... the bells... the bells... she suddenly remembered the bells. Now, a grown-up woman, suddenly had a flashback during that fateful day when she last saw KL... the bells. It snapped her. She remembered that all the Targaryen loyalists were long dead in KL and everything belonged to Baratheon-Lannister faction. Everything that her family created was spiritually (and in some cases physically, like the Sept of Baelor) destroyed when she was a kid.
The Red Keep was soiled of stag & lion shit, the city was a decayed mess than the order she probably knew during Aerys' reign, and everyone associated with her family were long, long dead or lost interest once Vyserion died. She didn't had nothing to prove, to show herself with, to leave her mark, other than to destroy what your family built because it was already not yours anymore and soiled.
tl;dr
Pavlov sends his regards.
Cutest psycho!
Exiles. Not rapists, robots and three gigantic monsters.
>she does have a problem with slavery, but she decides to buy the unsullied anyway because she needs them for her conquest.
I mean she does offer them freedom or rather says they are free to leave if they want to. Yeah it's a calculated move because where the fuck are they gonna go, what are they gonna do and counting on them to be loyal and grateful that she freed them. But unless you had one of her freed slave followers try to leave and she stops them or tries to, you can't say she wouldn't keep her word. She also does waste a lot of time trying to wipe out slavery.
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY
he got us again
can we all take a minute to thank based janny
>she’s a good-hearted girl who cares about other people, but her first priority is the throne,
Yeah. She parallels Bobby B a lot in this respect: she’s a good conquerer but she can’t hold a kingdom and things go to shit when she’s not there with her dragons breathing down everyone’s necks.
She has very good intentions with freeing the slaves but then the cities utterly collapse because she doesn’t know how to reestablish order. Young Griff and to a lesser extent Jon have an edge over her in this respect, Dany was never educated for it.
a “targaryen” fuck, the “rightful” heir to a lineage that ruled the kingdoms for centuries, aided by exiled westerosi who were originally from noble houses. he’s not a usurper, and in a country that respects names, even his soldiers from defunct houses like toyne etc will get more respect that dothraki or unsullied
Dragonspawn need to fuck off. Stags are Chads and liberated Westeros for the Andals. Ours is the Fury.
cringe.
Who do you think Coldhands will be? I reckon it'll be the Lord Commander who fucked The Other waifu.
Borderline suicidal
>keep pretending you think I haven't read the books if you want, it doesn't matter.
Nigga every time you go to describe a character you give the show version instead of the book version. So if you have read but still keep misinterpreting everything them I guess all we can say it that you’re dumber than Lollys.
>Eddard was just larping as a headsman because his dad told him it was his duty
>Tyrion was just larping as defender of King's Landing to impress his dad
>Jon was just larping as an alienated teen when he joined the Night's Watch
one of the issues of a POV-based story is that character's justifications for their own actions is the only frame of reference the reader gets. that's what makes them interesting. but it doesn't absolve the author of needing to set up characters accurately.
at this point in the story (ADWD) Dany hasn't ever really done anything that wasn't presented as justifiable in context, and she's 16 years old.
there's definitely a version of the story with madDany which might have worked. it just isn't the one that GRRM has written: he was too busy writing about her bathing, getting fingerbanged, and pining for the innocence of her childhood.
I fully buy & agree that he wanted to make us go "holy shit Sauron looks like THAT??" but it's going to fucking fail. you're all fools for thinking it could possibly work: guilty of the same failure to recognize the limitations of story setup that GRRM is.
you'll not triumph this day, bizarro-catelyn
Coldhands is Bran the Builder
He's on high alert probably.
Coldhands is Stannis but from the future. Screencap this.
and conquest, which was already her main goal, is moving even further up the hierarchy of what she values. “dragons plant no trees,” “rhaegar fought valiantly, rhaegor fought nobly, rhaegar fought honorably. and rhaegar died,” both foreshadow dany fighting dirty to get what she wants, even more than in the past. it’s a foregone conclusion at this point, and tbth its a more interesting end to the character than just “she gets the throne and everything is fine”
Our only salvation is /hr/.
*This post is not advocating brigading*
And fuck George, I knew he was a hack. American Tolkien my ass
Checked
It is up to the reader to understand that first person perspectives are biased and untrustworthy.
>GRRM has gotten caught up in being an edgelord
The books are entertaining in their dumb way but I can admit that ASoIaF has a lot of Coldsteel-tier pure cringe. The gritty grimdark genre waves of the 1980s-1990s helps explain it but it's pretty painful to reread to be honest. He tries way too damn hard at being as edgy as possible even when it's just fucking stupid.
GRRM is a hack and he don't know how to finish book, he never was good at finishing things. TV Show wanted to stole ending from Lord of the Ring and failed miserably on all accounts. GRRM and D&D have no idea what bittersweet is.
he a cute
it might not have worked for you, but that doesn’t mean it’s a failed arc. not everyone focused more on the fingerbanging than on the razing of cities while they were reading the dany chapters.
I only watch this shit past season 5 because of hoping it would sub for the books. it's succeeded beyond my wildest nightmares: GRRM and D&D turn out to have been perfectly matched, cognitive dissonance and all.
you know why D&D looked super-confident during the script reading? because they'd stayed true to GRRM's mangled contradictory ideas.
>Eddard was just larping as a headsman because his dad told him it was his duty
Don’t be silly, Ned larps as a headsman because BLOOD FOR THE TREE GODS. Though he probably doesn’t know it.
Is that why she attacks Yunkai after Astapor? Because the slaves of Yunkai are worthless as a fighting force and pretty much just bagage.
Why not make her Caesar though where she scares the shit out of nobles, which includes most of the characters we follow, because she actually cares about the poor and empowering them so they conspire to kill her. She's absolutely right, but xshe's a villain in their eyes and to the feudal system
the bastard son of kit harrington and cillian murphy
see He even rides a Stag.
>she doesn’t know how to reestablish order
you're underestimating GRRM's nihilism.
his point was that Slaver's Bay was awful before Dany arrived, and it's going to stay awful no matter what she does, and that heroism doesn't exist.
remember: he's going to end up writing a heroic fantasy that ends with a computer in charge of what was previously a monarchy, and he's 100% expecting us to go "yes, that was worth 7000 pages".
She only did that after the slaves called her mommy. She is a being of pure emotion who does things on a whim. That is a characteristic of historical tyrants such as Caligula, Nero and Commodus.
Temporary nuclear bunker
what's painful is that I honestly thought there was something more to it.
I actually do think he fell in love with Dany as he wrote her but he's going to stick to his Subversive Literary Masterwork plan no matter what even if it's no longer suited for a story requiring this level of investment.
>Everyone except you managed to read Dany as GRRM intentioned: a well-intentioned but flawed character who could easily and logically become a violent fire and blood conquerer
>N-No I can’t possibly be wrong! Everyone else is misreading and GRRM is a bad writer
Kek
GRRM is not sane anymore. The best is to forget about ASOIAF and thrown into the trash all books. We wont get the ending anyway, he has not talent anymore to end them.
Is that why Ned's kids have magic powers?
>autistic waifufag doesn't understand how links work
why am I not surprised
...
There a console command to get an item from another house into my possession? Basically I want Red Rain back in the hands of the Reynes and not those shitty Ironborn
dany wants her people to be happy, but she also wants the throne and the power that comes with it. if dany comes up against serious opposition, she’s going to have to choose between letting go of her dream or burning a bunch of decent people. she won’t have time to implement political reforms and become a caesar figure, because this is a choice she’s going to face before she ever ascends to the throne.
I dunno but that’s what powers the Weirwoodnet.
>/trash/
exactly where she belongs
then stop whining and get out of the general
Aside from Bronn, Reynes were all wiped out.
>Starks have ice magic
>Targs have fire magic
>Jon is half stark half targ
Woah... this really is a song of ice and fire
couldn't someone from the Golden Company just take the name of Reyne anyway
>add_artifact [name] [character #]
I think. I don't usually use it for anything other than fiddling with traits and checking bastardry.
>>Everyone except you managed to read Dany as GRRM intentioned: a well-intentioned but flawed character who could easily and logically become a violent fire and blood conquerer
>>N-No I can’t possibly be wrong! Everyone else is misreading and GRRM is a bad writer
I'm not that guy but I haven't yet seen anybody complain that Dany couldn't be Darth Dany, just the the writing was terrible because of how rushed the last few seasons or season of the show was in general. Everything happened too fast and was also swept under the rug too fast like it didn't matter to begin. Doing three different Big Bads (NK, Cersei, Dany) rise and defeat in just four episodes is fucking retarded.
The book could do all of this much better. But I doubt it. GRRM actually isn't a very good writer or maybe just not good writing these particular books a lot of the time. A lot of the prose is godawful. That's fine though.
if "the Others" just wind up being a metaphor for how humans demonize other groups of people they don't understand, and if the remaining untarnished characters like Brienne and Sam don't have something more significant to do than saving the realm from the horrifying 16yo dragongirl Sauron (that a lot of people don't realize is meant to be unsympathetic because GRRM was too busy fapping over her to make it clear) the series isn't really going to have any means of concluding in a satisfying way.
perhaps I'm missing something. I'd love if someone could point out the options for narrative closure given what we know.
Who do you think Bronn is? kek.
please bro don't bring it here
I love Emilia but I refuse to post in /trash/. Emilia is too good for that board
It’s just this one user who is somehow convinced book Dany has less setup for FIRE AND BLOOD mode than show Dany. And they keep insisting that it’s because GRRM screwed up the book structure but it seems more like that user did a bad job of separating out the unreliable narration to see all the red flags in the book.
>thinking the books will ever be finished
Imagine living in an actual castle with Ygritte and becoming a drunk loser. What an asshole.
aaaggghhh...
>jannies sent the waifufags to the trash
TYBJ
>being depressed when you could spend all day getting drunk and cuddling with your 7/10 ginger gf in a fucking castle
>his life is literally a game of thrones
jesus
It just shows the level of intelligence on this board desu
Say, why didn't D&D just have Margaery survive and have her take the role that fAegon will 99% become in the books (usurp Cersei, ruler that everyone likes, etc)? It would have made many of the arcs and story progression much more sensible and in accordance to what GRRM intends.
>everybody laughs at him for being a loser for eight years
>he ends up with the perfect life
I am that guy and my whole point is that people are overestimating how much adding more material will contribute to making Mein Dragonfuhrer into an acceptable plot point.
the people who are 100% on board with it probably never liked her character at any point: they're not the one's GRRM has to worry about impressing if he wants his series to be remembered as any more than a niche curiosity with a limp ending.
And yet he still went to rehab. Some people are never satisfied.
Real talk, why is the Drowned God the only one that seems to have water magic and everyone else is fire, blood, or fire and blood. Aeron even mentions that drowning doesn’t spill blood.
Not counting the 7 because those faggots don’t even do magic.
No Dany isn't going to literally go insane in the books like she did in the show. But she is going to turn villainous, or be perceived as such.
>Dany hasn't ever really done anything that wasn't presented as justifiable in context
This is exactly the point of characters like her and Tyrion, and Jaime for that matter
Neither Margaery nor Cersei taking the throne makes any lick of sense. They have no claim. Wives of dead kings have no right to inheritance.
Because Lena would stop putting out if they killed her character off.
Then I hope George makes it a lot greyer than the show did.
Aegon V wanted dragons so he could implement good changes, Dany has a shot but I guess because the nobles we've followed even if they are the ones benefiting from a corrupt system like the masters, are too sympathetic and grey to instantly justify killing them.
Kind of sucks though, I had hope George would put someone like Dany on the throne because irl someone like her would get there, plus her grey actions and changes would make for an interesting ruler to shake up Westeros from it's 8,000 year stagnation and feudal system
>She only did that after the slaves called her mommy.
That happened on yunkai tard
So between Margaery, Visenya and Lyn Corbray, who does the most little boys per year?
>he unironically wanted the YAAS SLAY QUEEN ending
The actress asked to be let go
Rhoynar had water magic too
>Margaery
Baratheon rule is the only chance Westeros had of change. Targaryens kept Westeros in stagnation.
>literally go insane
Unless all those Quaithe visions are actually just hallucinations and not magic. But yeah not too many Targs were literally insane, just assholes with super weapons.
>water magic
They don't do "water magic". They do resurrections, same as fire/ice/the rest. Even the Faceless Men do a form of resurrection
all the characters use unreliable narration. but Dany is the only one who gets referred to as having a "fire and blood MODE", even when multiple other characters use fire and blood, and Doran literally says "fire and blood" as if it meant saving the kingdom.
that's the crux of my point: GRRM needed to be far more obvious to make Dany stick out from the Tyrions, Stannises, Dorans and Aryas.
But it was Tywin who dismantled Aegons reforms
At least she's not a Mary or Gary Sue. Westeros needs change even if you have to go fire and blood to do it. Feudalism gives way to absolute monarchy, no one else has the will, vision or power except her
>the people who are 100% on board with it probably never liked her character at any point
i’m 100% on board with it and i’ve always liked her, which is why i think it would be retarded for her to get the kingdom on a silver platter without making some difficult choices. war bringing good people into conflict with each other and making both sides do horrible things is a CONSTANT theme. bobby and ned were always talking about it, and there’s even in-universe songs and legends, like the thing with erryk and arryk, that focus on it. if you don’t like the idea of dany razing a city, killing some smallfolk, attacking other POV characters etc. then whatever, but i don’t understand how it could be surprising considering it drives home the moral that grrm has been bludgeoning us over the head with for five massive books
Emilia and Daenerys has the strongest general on Yea Forums and she obviously belongs there as the QUEEN OF Yea Forums , and u can keep seething.
he obviously meant that Tommen would survive as Marg's puppet.
They haven’t had actual resurrections happen yet, have they? As far as I’ve noticed Patchface is the only evidence of working squidgod magic.
Dany is one of George's favorite characters, no matter what happens in the books it'll probably be well done. I wouldn't take anything in the show for granted considering how much they've already changed things
i agree with you user, good point
Dany on throne ending still would be a lot better than this piece of shit we got. GRRM thinks he is clever, but he is not, and if this is his end plot points then he is oficially exposed as a biggest hack in the world, even bigger than D&D
Robert let others do everything for him and they changed nothing. Westeros was stuck for thousands of years before the Targaryens. At least the Targaryens made roads, universal taxes, laws, economy, trade, etc., took power from the church
Septon Utt holds the current record
>Unless all those Quaithe visions are actually just hallucinations and not magic
GRRM could very well make the Quaithe stuff "foreshadowing" of Dany going mad. but it would be ass because then the same character is supposed to have a mixture of hallucinations and high-fantasy Undying prophecies that actually come true as legit foreshadowing.
it's exactly this kind of non-sequiteur that makes me think the series is doomed.
why's Kit getting justed bros
I said Baratheon, not Lannister. Lannisters were as entrenched into the ancien regime as the Targaryens. Baratheons are, technically, the youngest house and most likely for reform.
Stannis preached reform, Bobby B likely could've had some things done but he was too depressed. This is showfaggotry but, no doubt Joffrey picked on the idea of a standing army from Bobby, considering his talks with Cersei about Five vs One.
Now that I think about it, Gendry could work for all of this. He knows the plight of the smallfolk, he's got the birthright and recognition. Give him Davos as an advisor, and I think he'd do well.
Wars would've eventually led Westeros to reform, just like Europe. Targaryens enforced stagnation. Roads were made, taxes were levied and trade was had long before those inbred Valyrians decided to enslave the Andals, Rhoynar and First Men.
Well there's plenty of setup for ruthless and cruel Daenerys for sure (and to be honest a lot of his characters could realistically turn into psycho killers because nihilism, consider Arya's mindset). But the way the TV show chose to have the KL burning scene play out really needs a Dany who's just off her rocker nuts because despite attempts to rationalize it as a tactical move it doesn't actually make any sense to do besides being pure batshit.
The last book has some scene where Dany starts hallucinating that she's hearing Jorah telling her to kill everyone and stop trying to be a good ruler towards the end. I think that path where's she's schizophrenic and hears voices tell her to do crazy shit works well as buildup to her brain tumor in a clock tower spree killing moment. Not really any of the stuff that's come before, which makes her going through a meatshield to get to a pre-surrender Cersei make sense, or her being ruthless and sadistic if the citizens resist her rule after she's taken over. If GRRM goes the ruthless but not "lol childmurder for no reason" path the groundwork is well laid, if he wants Joker Schizophrenic Dany having more hallucinations like in that scene where she's talking to the grass is a good buildup. I do wonder why and how Joker Dany could get any sane allies, though. Euron and Ramsay as allies maybe.
I want to say it will be well done in the books but I see looking back the books have a lot of big flaws too, so I don't know.
except stannis was liked by most since the beggining of this shit series, dany only gained appeal on Yea Forums after she went full mad cunt
>fire and blood MODE
Because it’s linked to her house and she herself uses the phrase.
Also we were just telling you that Tyrion and Arya are also on potential “downward” trends like Dany (Catelyn too). No one is singling Dany out as the only sympathetic character that looks to be turning unsympathetic.
She might be one of his favorites for all the wrong reasons though. Not because he likes the character or duality but just how he can play with tropes and making a sympathetic villain that he's gonna kill for a lesson on villains and what they can appear as
Correction, literally no one ever likes nor will like Dany. We have an influx of r/freefolk migrants, just like with the Jonerys bullshit.
>tfw Dany will never grab your sword hilt
gendry’s my boy but he is unironically too stupid to ever be an effective ruler. edric storm has the best elements of his father and renly in one charismatic package - he would be a better choice. plus he can read
>people changed their opinion of a character as a story progressed how dare they
>ignoring the tide wan't already turning in episode 4 or as far as S7
so in short
fuck leddit niggers?
based
agh...
I made my dick bigger by switching to the metric system.
Book wise yeah, I agree on Edric Storm. Show Gendry is a weird hybrid of Edric Storm and Book Gendry, that's why I said him.
stanniscringers have always stunk this place up
I think the “Quaithe as a hallucination” thing would be along the lines of “Her prophecy is real but Dany is going insane dwelling on it.” You could even tie it into Rhaegar’s obsession with the AA prophecy and Cersei with her Valonquar.
i see danyfags are fastracking the /got/ generals to getting banned for good
great work reddit
>Yea Forums only starts to like Dany after she went crazy
>now the Danyfags are mad that she went crazy
I do not understand these people
spoken like a true migrant from you know where
really, Yea Forums has hated dany for 8 fucking years
EGGGGHHHH
There was no Kingsroad before theTargaryens, the kingdoms fought for hundreds or thousands of years and were still the same and divided. Taxes and laws WERE different everywhere, they were separate kingdoms m8. And trade was more difficult when you have bloodfeuds like Stormlands vs Dorne or Dorne vs Reach. Everyone fucking praises Nymeria for uniting people, praisesHouse Stark, but Targaryens still couldn't convince everyone to see themselves as ONE Kingdom and one people, but that needs to change
You have betrayed your people user. Traitors will be sent to the lowest level of hell.
I don't think the Nazi Danyfags who just want an animu girl Hitler waifu (so Azula basically) are the same as people complaining that the arc was badly done in the show. Or even fans of the character at all. Just think the writing sucked.
it's a question of degree. he's been hiding behind the POV system more than perhaps you (and even GRRM himself) realized: all the conflicts in the story so far have had a pretty clear delineation of who is the bigger fuckhead.
Stannis vs. Tyrion is a non-POV vs a POV (Davos is just a camera)
Renly vs Stannis clearly sides with Stannis by making Renly more of a cock and the "knights of summer" line from Catelyn, who is our only POV then.
Theon isn't sympathetic at all while he's raiding winterfell.
Stark vs Lannister is 100% Stark biased. there aren't even scenes with Lannister soldiers getting eaten by wolves like in the show.
Wildlings vs Watch is the closest to a white vs white conflict, but there are no POV wildlings.
a lot of characters are straight villains like Ramsay, Gregor, Roose, Joff. Tywin is ambiguous for a while but ultimately isn't.
the point is GRRM has been delaying a truly balanced "nice" vs "nice" conflict: it's ALWAYS been clear whose side we were supposed to be on in context. Dany only razes cities in between chapters so she never feels like a villain.
this is the problem. GRRM is probably discovering he can't have his cake and eat it.
>the r*ddit fags love redemption arcs
>as soon as a previously sympathetic character does something unethical they pitch a fit
do they just want a story full of generic good guys and 1-d villains? what would be the fucking point?
Cope
>a story full of generic good guys and 1-d villains?
You mean like the series finale where Jon is a generic good guy Daenerys is a 1-d villain there's that cliche as fuck "tragic lovers" kiss and stab scene followed by a Disney happy ending?
>47 posters
>roughly half the thread is onesided shitslinging about muh reddit
Don't you have anything better to do? Resurrect /alita/, maybe?
Redditors know they are not welcome here and hide their true loyalties. But you already know that, don't you redditor?
To these anons, have you read the Meereenese Knot? That plus the Blood Oranges essays go a long way to explaining how Dany shifts toward Fire and Blood-mode towards the end of ADWD explicitly as an strong reaction to her history of trying to be diplomatic. She'll be cutting the Gordian knot, and blazing a trail through Essos conquering left and right will feel like a cathartic liberation from all that politicking. This'll stretch all the way to Westeros, where it'll take a turn for the worse as suddenly the complex political landscape will shift from the frustrating Meereen cast to the familiar Westerosi nobility.
The idea is that the reader and Dany both feel frustrated having to sit through two and a half books of Skandoz mo Dozmaq and Hizboz bo Hazmat, and we both just want her to get to Westeros and start her conquest (whether or not we're rooting for her), but then the feeling carries over to having to deal with fake Targaryens, multiple queens, Dornish plots etc., causing a disconnect between her and the reader. The change will be abrupt, but that doesn't mean it isn't properly set up: what comes before is driving her off the cliff.
What did little finger mean when he said that chaos is a ladder ?
That sounded neat but i didn't get it
It makes no difference. It is still measured by how long time it would take for light to travel the length of your cock in vacuum.
>disappointed in a actor for living the life
Jesus Christ you sound like a fun guy
The drowning ritual is no joke. What is dead may never die = Ironborn are reborn from death (they paid the Iron price)
>Renly vs Stannis clearly sides with Stannis
fucking wrong. stannis’ VERY FIRST APPEARANCE is his betrayal of cressen, something that i still hold against him to this day. even afterward, his prioritization of melisandre over davos makes him look like a dick. if you like stannis, it’s got nothing to do with POV, it’s just that you, as an individual, like the character more than renly.
>Theon isn't sympathetic at all while he's raiding winterfell.
again, this totally depends on who’s reading. i was pissed at theon but his line to rodrick about the noose around his neck chafing him his whole childhood made me feel bad for him.
>Stark vs Lannister is 100% Stark biased
did you skip all the arya chapters? we see the bloody mummers fighting for both sides, indiscriminate murder and rape in the river lands, roose and other stark allies being dicks, etc. the smallfolk themselves see wolves and lions on the same tier. besides, both jaime and tyrion have POVs and are easy to sympathize with.
presentation matters, but the story is way less simplistic than you make it seem, and whose “side” you’re on is entirely dependent on the reader. i’m sure he’ll present dany lighting people on fire as arguably good, even if it brings her into conflict with other main characters.
It's dumb cause D&D wrote it
what's fucking stupid is that George has written the whole history of the Seven Kingdoms as if Aegon the Conqueror was a cool dude with two bangin' sisterwives, who only killed retards like Harren the Black and ended a situation where the kingdoms were all fighting each other.
yet from that setup (which I get was meant to be written by the victors) we're supposed to go "oh noes, fire = bad" and be upset when another character basically behaves like Aegon but with fewer resources and a shittier childhood.
like, does GRRM think human history was ever going to consist of a hippy grouphug and that anything else is Evil automatically?
This. Jon doesn't even seem that haunted by being a traitor, oathbreaker, kinslayer, queenslayer. Fucker is right where he told Tormund he wanted to be and he's smiling. Everyone got what they wanted and what they were promised, except Dany, and everything is rebuilt and people are joking
>underestimating the power of waifus on Yea Forums of all places
Hhahahaha cope harder
Normally the great houses controll everything and there are barely any chances to rise above the position you are born into. By causing chaos and having the great houses butcher each other Littlefinger can make powerplays that normally wouldn't be possible.
>all this in two books
George will die of fat first
Baelish sees chaos as an opportunity to rise above his current station. He doesn't scruple to incite chaos and take advantage of the power vacuum.
Crazy nazi pyromaniac animu waifus are best waifus.
there are more than two options.
Dany and Jon could both die saving Westeros from the Others and it would literally be 1000x better.
at least then sacrifice and heroism (even flawed, idealistic, partly misguided heroism) would actually fucking mean something.
>like, does GRRM think human history was ever going to consist of a hippy grouphug and that anything else is Evil automatically?
You're not gonna know until you get the last books which will probably never happen anyway because they probably won't ever be finished. The debate is pointless unless you see what he was going to do exactly. The show botched the endings of the major plotlines but the same events could be handled competently they just weren't because D&D were sick of this shit and wanted to get to SW.
You are obviously new here. /got/ had more cersei supporters than Danyfags until she killed the women and children. Go back.
>Jon’s parentage and Aegon’s fakeness will be revealed when Dany’s Targaryen incest o meter goes off on Jon but does nothing with fAegon
If you didn't think these threads could get any worse you were wrong. The quality of this general is tanking by the day with no content. It's time to think about purging it for good.
I see that makes sense
thanks
fuck all targshits
>I came into the world holding onto her. But she didn't hold onto me, did she?
How about fuck you.
there was a brief lull where everyone was discussing theories and bringing up details from the books. that was pretty nice, i miss that
Dany is unironically a cringe evil character from the very start, only tumblreddit likes her.
Go back to shitposting about reddit, it's far more convincing than shit like this.
I agree and it makes me think that GRRM may have been trying to do both because he unconsciously doubts his own decisions. he could have written the the Houses of the Undying in a moment of inspiration, and put it in despite it totally contradicting his larger plan for the character.
>had
>had
>people can actually change their minds on a character wow
Have you even watched a series together with a board on this site before GoT to never have seen the waifu effect?
nice delusion and cope my friend. Bruh, even Dany general on this board has more unique IPs and was fater than /got/ general, so stay humble u tumblr retard fag.
Everyone here talking about the Iron Throne plot while here I am still disappointed that the Others plot didn't matter and will ultimately take a backseat in the books as well.
Watching Chernobyl made me realize how haunting having nature as a primal enemy can be.
Two books is enough. A lot of shit happens in each book (except AFFC)
Dany is uronically based character from the very start, only tumblr trannies doesnt like her.
>the Others plot didn't matter and will ultimately take a backseat in the books as well.
I'm not convinced it'll play out anything like this. I think there are plenty of ways to hit most of the plot points D&D shat out without completely ruining the Others plot.
Not convincingly it won't. No way can she hit up the rest of Essos AND get to Westeros for whatever in just two books from where she is
To be fair, it takes a VERY high IQ to appreciate AFFC.
You’ve got to be the weirdest poster I’ve met today because everything you say is couched in “I really understand the books” but then you display a depth of understanding on par with D&D’s.
>Theon isn't sympathetic at all while he's raiding winterfell.
On the contrary, he’s still a douche but those are the chapters where we find out how much his real family rejects him, how out of place he is between two cultures/religions, and how he viewed himself as a Stark hostage all along.
>Stark vs Lannister is 100% Stark biased. there aren't even scenes with Lannister soldiers getting eaten by wolves like in the show.
The saltpans scenes regularly make a strong point of how the smallfolk are getting fucked over by the wolves as much as the lions. And asides from Jaime himself you get to meet some more Lannister relations who turn out to be decent people.
>Wildlings vs Watch is the closest to a white vs white conflict, but there are no POV wildlings.
Characters like Mance and Val give us plenty of perspective for the wildlings, and by paying attention you get a pretty good grasp of how Jon’s behavior makes Bowen et.al. somewhat justified.
tumblr threw a collective shitfit about her ending. i think you might be happier there
Nice to know you're admitting to your reddit status at least.
>his betrayal of cressen, something that i still hold against him to this day.
My man. JUSTICE FOR CRESSEN
Only Danycuckolds hate AFFC because it focuses on actually good characters like Jaime, Stannis, etc.
neutering euron and removing faegon made the whole show impossible to resolve the way it will be in the books. i’m not too worried.
The Meereen plot is fucking horrible and book Daario is one of the worst characters in the seriesunless he turns out to be Euron
Dany was only good in the show when she started salivating over her nephew’s cock
Lmao, she was already heavily posted there during season 7 u delusional fuck. Not my fault that D&D are so incompetent that made a lot of people who disliked Dany before, love her after season 8, some because they liked the yandere aspect, some because they dont like character assassinations, etc...
Cressen literally can't get off Stannis' dick the whole scene. he is fanatically loyal and his sacrifice speaks to how highly he regards Stannis IN SPITE of his actions.
Renly is presented as being a shallow partyboy in a fake marriage who is feasting his way up the Kingsroad, and gets internally called out as much by Catelyn from the outset. sure GRRM could have MEANT it to be balanced, but if so he fucked it up.
Starks and Lions isn't done strongly enough. Roose (with his "i'm a bad guy" banner") turns out to betray the characters we like, omg! the bloody mummers aren't hired by Robb in a scene where he tells them to rape and pillage, unlike Tywin who specifically tasks Gregor to do that.
Theon isn't pure evil but he's literally fucking the main family we like in the ass.
What matters is that one side is always MORE sympathetic. GRRM has always dodged situations where, e.g. Arya stabs Davos, or Dany burns Tyrion.
I assumed that was because he knew it would fuck up the story instantly at a fundamental level. but I realize now he may just have not had to confront the issue yet.
I think that Rickon will be king in the North and will embrace the North's wilder pre-Ned days and Sansa will pretty much take over the Vale by being sweetrobin's controlling waifu.
Yeah, by redditors who spammed Jonerys and are also behind Reylo. Get the fuck off my board.
tumblr and trannies love Sansa, she is the YAAAS... Daenerys is loved everywhere right now, old fanbase still likes her even after character assassination, and D&D made her liked by new people who didnt care, or disliked her before. I dont know why you are SEETHING that much about other people liking different characters, deal with it.
I would bet real money that the Others will be the endgame and the Throne plotline will be resolved before the Others plotline.
>implying the books will ever end
Why is she so tiny?
Both Dany and Sansa are fucking shit. All the interesting characters died by Season 5, and the half-decent ones were finished off in 6 when the Sept was blown up.
i think you are redditor or tumblrer, so gtfo from there u retarded faggot.
>shes the same height as me
>i'll never look like her
just fuck my shit up lads
Somebody explain to me how middle class leddit users raising money for emilia clarke's (a millionaire) charity isn't backwards fucking cucked
the reason I'm reeeing so hard is because the ending of the show has made me suspect GRRM's writer's block is exactly because he came up against this problem and hasn't ever accepted that he needed to write a more conservative ending.
it's a double-whammy: the show's ending is bad for the same reason the books will never be finished.
>having people be conflicted would fuck up the story
That is the point of the story you idiot. That's what this whole thing is building up to. You just don't like the series, it's okay. Not everybody has to be a fan of every book.
for me its shtanish
Daenerys is literally the only interesting character in season 8, definitely the only one with character arcs, butchered character arcs but at least some ARC. Others character have literally no storyline during season 8, and are boring as fuck.
>Throne, then Others
This way around feels so much more natural. I'll never understand why they didn't choose it for the show, it could have fixed so many problems.
The only book that actually gave us a grey portrayal of morality was AFFC.
Dany wasn't even born yet.
>shes the same height as me
Dany has no arc other than muh dragons.
Why you care u socialist and communist fuck about other people supporting charites with their own private money? i always knew that Dany haters are these fucking degenerate socialist/communist/homo faggots
Anyone have the pic of grey worm sticking his head way forward?
unless the Others, Euron and the Faceless Men at Hightower plot all end up being tied together in a big bow, the ending of the story is going to feel like a chaos of subplots no matter what.
tumblr only likes Sansa. I go there to try to find nice fan art sometimes but only notice Sansa worship and saying non-Sansa characters are all shit there. It's very weird.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I meant that he isn't happy with his life and went into rehab, despite living in a fucking castle.
You haven't read the books in a while or you weren't giving much attention for how much people of Westeros support a Targeryan name on the throne. Dorne does and the Martells are sending Arianne to contact with Aegon. The Tyrells, Redwyne and Darry nobles support and the brother without banners come across as Targ fans as well. In fact, you could say that most lords and smallfolk support them outside of teh norf and stormlands. TV show glosses over this because it's too complicated and probably part of the reason they dropped the whole young griff/Aegon story for YASS SLAY QUEEN Cersei being the villian
she's confirmed to arrive in Westeros near the end of TWOW.
you need to remember that Dany's city razing is normally narrated after the event. she has a lot of opportunity for fast-travel.
>reading AGOT
>reading Ned's, Arya's, Tyrion's, Cat's POV
>completely invested in the conflict, intrigue, politics of the Westerosi story line
>digesting each chapter with haste, anxiously viewing the character's movements and thoughts
>I am with Cat in the Eyrie, with Bran in Winterfell, Ned in KL
>I drip with sweat as I sense a Cat chapter is coming to an end
>can't wait to see what Tyri-
>D A E N E R Y S
I can't believe you people are still posting about this trash.
how do you reationalize being a millionaire and asking people 10000x worse off than you financially to support your charitable cause
it's like asking a homeless person to fundraise starbucks for you and your friends
We should be thankful for this show lads, look at the witcher show
It's not cucked because... she doesn't get any money out of it? It's a show of support for her cause. The fact that she could easily donate far more than the plebs doesn't really diminish their contributions, desu.
I'm not claiming it won't be messy, just that it will be a far more satisfying conclusion to most of those subplots. Not that that's an especially high bar to set or anything.
Mostly cuck houses like Targshitters. Chads like Baratheons and Lannisters openly oppose them.
user why do you keep taking the shallowest reading of these bits and not doing any of the normal work to separate the narrator’s perspective from the objective events happening? Do you understand that just because Cressen likes Stannis that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to like how he estranged the old man and continues to side with the blood sacrifice lady? To assume Cressen likes him = the audience is supposed to like him is the exact opposite of how you should approach unreliable narrators.
Why is Sansa to go to self-insert character for tumblrites anyways?
>That tiny elk
It's quite clear that Coldands is riding something like an Irish Elk which in real life was huge
One book of speedrunning Essos+arrival on Dragonstone. Who knows how ADOS will play out, it all depends on how extensive the war with the Others is. But dealing with Aegon and Euron could take up the first half of the book, the Others and Jon the second.
I didn't say I don't like it. But not a lot happens in it (on a larger scale) compared to the other books.
Because deep down they know they are useless
That would take suspension of disbelief to a whole other level and be rushed as fuck. Any other moments in between where she would be changing or doing something would be skipped and only addressed retroactively, which is bad writing
Dany and Sam chapters are so bad
>only xyz characters are meant to be sympathetic
>i disagree, i sympathized with the other characters instead
>no you didn't
are you for real.
cressen loves stannis and is loyal to him because he raised him like his own son. everything that stannis does in that scene, and in subsequent scenes, means that he can very easily be read as a brutal, ruthless, unyielding hardass, which also serves to make renly seem kinder and more charismatic in comparison, and that's not taking into account how he murders renly using blood magic. again, if you like stannis more than renly, it's not that grrm wrote it in an unbalanced way, it's that you interpreted it based on your specific biases and seem unable to conceive of the idea that other people have their own distinct opinions.
>Theon isn't pure evil but he's literally fucking the main family we like in the ass.
what, like jaime? the guy who's maybe the most popular character in this general? don't oversimplify it.
>What matters is that one side is always MORE sympathetic. GRRM has always dodged situations where, e.g. Arya stabs Davos, or Dany burns Tyrion.
the blackwater is tyrion vs. davos and co. the purple wedding is good for sansa, but nearly gets tyrion killed. all of the bullshit going on in the riverlands during arya's asos plotline pits good people against each other, and has evil people on both sides. one side is more sympathetic - TO YOU. that's a function of the way you read the story, not the way it's written or meant to be read.
>I'll never understand why they didn't choose it for the show,
As far as I can tell D&D are the type of retards who can neither grasp or write magical elements in a story.
>mfw when people complain about the armor in GoT
you have...NO right
Wow you are retarded, she probably supporting charites with her own private money also, and its personal for her because she had two aunerysms so she want to bring awareness to brain iniures, but other people also can support, its not like they are forced, its their money and decision.
how does GRRM know that ruling is indeed hard? did he had any expirience? why should we trust him on this topic?
>from 15th century Holy Roman Empire Chads to ballsack warriors
>Sam
Oh no don't tell me I have to follow that fat useless fuck around. What book do we start seeing Sam POV?
That would be WAY too rushed. George might as well go for a 5 year timeskip at that point. Dany can't possibly tear through Essos and sail and no other moments of development for her in that time or changes in anything or losses that aren't important
The Cat chapters make Renly seem like a huge dumbass on his way to death anyways though
Betraying Stannis was both morally wrong and dumb as fuck in terms of strategy
>how does GRRM know that being a theoretical physicist is indeed hard? did he had any expirience? why should we trust him on this topic?
>got went to shit
>wot will be shit
>witcher will be shit
>lotr will probably be shit too
I just wanted some fucking good fantasy why
>on his way to death
renly's victory is basically assured before stannis decides to attack storm's end. stannis has no allies, no military strength, and no hope of actual victory. his argument about usurpation and right as might also isn't that stupid considering how his own brother ascended to the throne. the real dumbass move is stannis attacking renly instead of teaming up with him to fight the lannisters, and the only reason it didn't fuck him over is because he used magic to assassinate all his enemies.
>Lannisters openly oppose them.
When it was convenient for Tywin to cuckhand of the king and they weren't fucking his waifu cousin
/ecg/ fuck all others
you're still ignoring my point, which seems weird to you because we're talking at cross purposes.
we are always cued whose side we are meant to be on given the available options. who we are most invested in at any point determines whether we see any individual scene as a "up" or a "down" twist.
the Wildlings failing to conquer the Wall means Jon survives: Jon is a POV so we prefer this.
Theon is fucking up Robb & the other Starks. we'd prefer it if he'd done something else. it's clear whose side we're supposed to be on.
now compare this with Jon stabs Dany: we have to be squarely on Jon's side for the scene to work, but it doesn't, because GRRM has set her up as a sympathetic slave-wife from the outset.
human beings want to pick a side. you can't write a story where none of the characters can be related to. GRRM has behaved like a writer who understands this, but apparently he was just lucky until now.
Actually haven’t seen that one in ages
GRRM should be honored he gets to be compared to a megachad like Tolkien
ASOS. He’s one of those characters where I don’t like reading his perspective but he goes interesting places and is about to be involved in some good shit so I don’t mind too much.
This. Might makes right. Aegon had no right to rule the Seven Kingdoms, but he had dragons so long live the king I guess.
>tfw no Tywin or Euron POV
>bend the knee to dragons
>dragons gone now
>robb and balon "dipshit" greyjoy are the only ones who unbend knees
i want seven independent kingdoms again. i want king sweetrobin of mountain and vale
>Theon isn't pure evil but he's literally fucking the main family we like in the ass.
Yes and his chapters go to great lengths to make the reader understand and perhaps even sympathize with him while he's doing it.
>What matters is that one side is always MORE sympathetic.
So both can be sympathetic but if one is MORE sympathetic, that means GRRM is a retard who can't into ambiguous morality? What if one side is Tywin and the other Tyrion? Or one side Roose and the other Ramsay? Joffrey and Cersei? Bowen Marsh and Jon?
>you can't write a story where none of the characters can be related to
We can relate to them, we just won't like what we see. It has always been clear that there was not going to be a happy ending, you were just too focused on traditional fantasy stories to accept it.
I hope that's just for some extra you barely see in the distance because that's some Power Rangers shit right there
Reminder that the books will be rushed as fuck too. George wanted a five year time skip for a reason, since he dropped it, it means any developments and character arcs will have to happen more abruptly and on a faster time table.
As he said, if a 12 year old has to conquer the world, so be it.There's no chance of proper build up and pacing anymore, it'll be nothing but asspulls especially with two books left
we were never going to get them for the same reason we'll never get a varys or lf POV - it would give too much of their plans away. it's more fun to see the scheming unfold from an outside perspective
you can't build up to it, it needed to be present in the story from the first page to work.
POVs are always used to make characters more sympathetic, even Cersei.
so the story structure ends up being POV characters vs Zombies: which is what people were expecting in the show too. but GRRM thought the zombies were just a le epic twist he could take away.
Oh he'd demolish Stannis alright but then what? He would have been wiped out at Kings Landing even worse than Stannis while not even having a rightful claim.
Just because Robert successfully rebelled does not make betraying your own older brother a good thing in Westros.
There's no way in hell Stannis would join under his brother, that would be like Bran taking control over Robb
bowen marsh was kind of understandable, too
>happy ending
Not him but literally all the characters after that get a Disney happy ending, even Bronn, even Sam, Sansa is even made queen
>He would have been wiped out at Kings Landing even worse than Stannis
holy fucking shit dude, don't argue about books that you haven't bothered to read.
stannis lost the battle of the blackwater because the tyrells, renly's allies, caught them in the rear as part of tywin's larger host. if renly had assaulted king's landing instead of stannis, he would have had the power of an entire kingdom on his side instead of the lannister's. even with tywin's last-minute intervention (which was by no means a guarantee if edmure or robb had done things differently), he would have taken the city.
You don't know how it would be, you haven't read it yet. If the entire point is that she's fed up with waiting, dealing with obstacles, worrying about leaving a mess, then yes, it makes perfect sense for her to tear through Essos. That IS development, her brutally stamping out enemies without a care, or while suppressing her doubt, that IS a story, and a multifaceted one. Whatever you're imagining has to be interspersed, that's your fanfiction
Tyrells are faggots who only have what they have because of Targshits
Lannisters have a majority stake in the Kingdom so why declare independence
Martells are too cucked on Targ propaganda to ever consider independence
Baratheons want the Iron Throne back, not independence
Only the Vale could go independent again and would've joined the Norf in their war had it not been from that retard Tully
Davos likes Stannis too, and doesn't get alienated by what happens to Cressen. Davos is presented as morally pretty impeccable, so he ends up validating Cressen's view.
GRRM also has quotes comparing Stannis to Henry VI.
remember: I'm saying GRRM doesn't necessarily know what he's doing. I'm not saying I think that Stannis is right or Dany is right or anyone is right.
I'm saying he's written a mess of grey characters which he is now attempting to apply an artificial series of plot points he conceived when the story was not planned to require this level of investment.
D&D only knew the broad stroked of the ending. None of that is canon.
you have absolutely no understanding of nuance. a story about the subjective nature of good and evil was not a good idea for you.
Why would Renly magically get the entire realm after slaying his own brother? His attack would have gone exactly like Stannis, maybe even worse since he's no military commander
Tywin would crush him in the rear exactly like he did to Stannis
The Lannisters managed to luck their ways through the War of the 5 Kings. It's absurd.
What part of "he had the Reach" don't you understand.
this discussion gets to the main problem with the series as GRRM appears to want to conclude it.
drama requires actual stakes, which means we have to care about someone. but if everyone's motives are depicted as selfish (which is where this is going) who gives a fuck? it's not heroic fantasy any more: yet that is what GRRM has been presenting the story as the entire time.
after 1000s of pages it should have been possible to commit to someone.
but Jon is dead and reliant on a deus ex machina to bring him back; Dany is going to get put down like a dog; Arya is an edgy assassin, and a boy in a wheelchair is set to become king of the seven kingdoms because he has internet access. shit is retarded whichever way you slice it.
I don't need to see George crap to know what's coming out of his ass user. Waging a war across all of Essos like that would take way too long and be gard as fuck even if there are more slaves than free people and acting like she can just decide fire and blood and as each city falls, resists, people and slaves burn and civilization collapses will be something she can retroactively look back on and still be in fire and blood mode is retarded. George would be a hack if I didn't think he was one already. Each and every one of those moments and the choices and consequences are things you can't not explore user
the seven are real and they love tywin lannister
you have overrated GRRM's mastery of nuance, and misinterpreted what was ultimately good instinctual storytelling as denoting some kind of coherent larger plan which might have added up to more than the sum of its parts.
With the reach he would have veteran commander randall tarly on his side, biggest army and allot of grain.
>we are always cued whose side we are meant to be on given the available options.
No we’re not, you’re just stuck on the idea that we’re supposed to root for specific characters when in fact the story has been designed to frequently make us root for both sides, or disagree with those characters. Some user already mentioned battle of the Blackwater and Joff’s wedding. You could also consider how Quentyn is pretty sympathetic in wanting to fulfill a marriage pact but Dany is also sympathetic in not marrying him.
>because GRRM has set her up as a sympathetic slave-wife from the outset.
You and the showfags are the only people who think she’s been set up like this.
user, yes it is. Ending will be the same. Not Bronn leading the Reach sure, not Gendry either but the rest, yeah cause you can see where and whuch characters and storylines they condensed into our main characters. Bronn will be some Tyrell, Sam is Sam thiugh, Gendry is edric, etc.
He hasn't written the book yet you dolt, even George doesn't know all of those details. All we know is that Jon kills Dany and Bran becomes king.
no one is saying that all the characters are shit, and obviously not everyone has selfish motives. all anyone is saying is that many characters you claim are villainous can be very heroic to some people, and that who you side with is entirely based on your personal predilections. we're all rooting for people, we're just rooting for different people, and you seem extremely assmad at both other readers and grrm because not everyone thinks dany should be the unblemished hero in the center of it all.
the show is clearly retarded. it's also not book canon, which is what you're currently bitching about.
GRRM uses the word "bittersweet".
apparently he has a different definition of that word from most people: I was thinking something along the lines of characters we like sacrificing themselves to save other people from an Ancient Evil after transcending petty political bickering.
He does know where each character ends up. He and d&d went through each character when they met up between seasons 3 and 4
Didn't all of the incels here say GOT threads would never exist after the finale?
Did you even read the shit you typed before you hit send.
Ends up. Not how they'll get there or if they'll be particularly happy when it's all over.
>I'm saying GRRM doesn't necessarily know what he's doing.
And I’m saying you’re misunderstanding how the characters are meant to be evaluated by the reader, which leads to you thinking GRRM has made a mistake. But the issue lies with your reading ability, not his writing ability. Multiple anons are pointing this out to you so we know several people have managed to read these stories without arriving at your weak interpretation of them.
>What if one side is Tywin and the other Tyrion?
Tyrion, obviously.
>one side Roose and the other Ramsay?
Roose. easy. you can negotiate with him.
>Joffrey and Cersei?
this wouldn't happen, but obviously Cersei because she is a POV.
>Bown Marsh and Jon
Jon.
you're actually making a mistake not recognizing how basic it is, just like GRRM is making a mistake if he thinks he can ignore it.
Scroll up, they've been furiously shitposting in an effort to kill the general for hours now.
no, they went through a few of the major characters without outlining the whole plot, only the ultimate resolution. all of the secondary and tertiary characters will probably have different stories, and the omission of faegon, neutering of euron, cersei as queen etc all point to some major differences between the book and the show in the future.
It should be killed, there is nothing to discuss, season 8 was trash, as you can see people are discussing books not season 8, there is nothing to discuss about season 8, it was creatively bankrupt, poorly written turd.
>Tyrion, obviously
Tyrion is a vindictive little shit. Siding with him is a complete incel move.
>Waging a war across all of Essos like that would take way too long
You underestimate how much GRRM can get done in one book. Look at Dany's ASOS chapters:
1. Switches course from Pentos to Slaver's Bay
2. Reaches Astapor, considers buying the Unsullied
3. Kills the Masters of Astapor, takes the Unsullied, conquers the city
4. Reaches Yunkai, meets mercenary captains, enlists Daario and the Stormcrows, has them attack Yunkai, frees the city and the slaves
5. Reaches Meereen, they plan attack, Barristan reveals himself and outs Jorah for spying, Dany dismisses them
6. Conquers Meereen, exiles Jorah, decides to stay in the city
That's three cities conquered in 6 chapters, and the actual takeovers are a chapter each. All while being the only POV character in her area, and in TWOW Tyrion is present (and will join her eventually according to GRRM), so that's double the chapters to cover her journey. In ADWD she had 10 chapters and TWOW is likely to be as long. There's no rush.
>Each and every one of those moments and the choices and consequences are things you can't not explore user
Get this through your head: her blazing through those areas, brutally and callously, is exploring them. The whole point of her stay in Meereen is to deal with the consequences of her conquest in ASOS (Astapor being taken over by a tyrant, the Yunkai plotting to attack). ADWD explores ONE side of her attempt to rule, the diplomatic side. TWOW will explore THE OTHER side, the warmongering.
GRRM is a hack, this is known, fanboys will defend everything he does, except his last two books are mediocre at best, senile hack.
the impetus to want Dany to reach Westeros comes from expecting some kind of meaningful payoff for her getting there. more stuff about how politics is hard/ruthless is NOT what made people feel such anticipation.
like I said: setup/payoff. GRRM set up a different kind of story than the one he actually wants to write, so it's going to be disappointing.
come on now
>TWOW will explore THE OTHER side, the warmongering
her last dance chapter all but confirms this, and it was set up as her central internal conflict at the beginning of storm.
>but obviously Cersei because she is a POV.
Goddamn you have a 10 year olds understanding of POV. Or maybe that’s an insult to 10 year olds.
Being POV does not mean you’re supposed to automatically side with them. That’s not how any of this works! What the fuck are you smoking?
>apparently he has a different definition of that word from most people: I was thinking something along the lines of characters we like sacrificing themselves to save other people from an Ancient Evil after transcending petty political bickering.
speak for yourself, that's the most basic, boring fucking ending imaginable. might as well go watch Armageddon and cry over Bruce Willis
Journey might be and is different but destination is the same. Disney as fuck, everyone got what they wanted and they're alive
Secondary and tertiary characters who in the end don't really matter and who's endings matter only to themselves. I mean if you care about where Jeyne Westerling or Poole end up ending will be quite different, for the main characters though, not really
We know they condensed Aegon by merging part of his story and impact with Cersei and Jon but impact was indeed felt, Dany has no love and has no claim so she'll have to burn shit. Euron won't matter in the grand scheme of the main character endings
>Bown Marsh and Jon
>Jon.
Bowen Marsh didn’t mutiny until Jon said he would break his vows by going to Winterfell. Jon is right about protecting the wildlings but wrong about abandoning his duties to save (fake) Arya. Bowen actually stepped in the moment Jon left the best path.
>everyone gets what they wanted
Pyrrhic victory. Look it up.
brainlet
>people want her to get there... but not like this!!
sounds bittersweet
secondary and tertiary characters mean theon, cersei, jaime, brienne littlefinger, varys, lady stoneheart, jorah, the hound. they aren't tyrion, jon, or dany, but they're still important and a far cry from the minor characters you're mentioning. if you don't care what happens to any of them, there's no reason to read the story.
>Euron won't matter
i refuse to believe this
Someone post the pic of grey worm sticking his head way far forward before I piss myself
>expectations: subverted
Except if her only plan is to burn shit to the ground that's boring. What's just slaughtering people and burning cities supposed to do or accomplish when we've seen she's trying to rule and do well for her people. She might be in warmongering mode but focusing entirely on the war and forgetting about the regular people on the ground, soldiers, Missandei, grey worm, barristan, leaving someone to rule, trade, , etc. makes it dull and lifeless when George had been getting into those things. And getting the Dothraki and fighting the current war and dealing with the ironborn
good thread
Castles are dark.
proper writing can't just ignore audience expectations completely. if GRRM wanted people to accept a totally different kind of ending he should have written the story in a very different way: most obviously without putting the Others first as if they are the primary looming threat.
A pyrrhic victory isn't worth it. Those endings will be I guarantee it. Just like how Frodo suffered the most but the others got out pretty okay except Arwen who later died alone
Do I enjoy them? Yes. Will their endings matter much in the end to console me regarding the rest, no. And believe it user
He didn't ignore audience expectations, he purposefully fucked with you. That doesn't make him a bad writer. The clues were all there. You got BTFO.
he's not a bad writer: he's a flawed writer. he put clues in a story that was structured incorrectly given where he wanted to take the story.
>I was in denial! It’s so unfair that things panned out logically when I spent so much time burying my head in the sand!
Fuck off fag
>structured incorrectly
A U T I S M
Mate, the point is that your idea ("if one side is more sympathetic, that means GRRM doesn't write ambiguously or varyingly sympathetic characters") is clearly fucked when you can put two morally reprehensible characters next to each other and decide which is less reprehensible. And your choices are absurd, Roose is literally a monster, and Jon's murder is meant to be tragic because it's justified. The POV structure does the exact opposite of what you're saying in his last ADWD chapters, because it lays bare the irrationality in his actions and makes us able to judge him while we understand him, same as we do Theon in ACOK.
I don't know, your view of this seems to be completely warped by a decision to dislike it.
>What's just slaughtering people and burning cities supposed to do or accomplish
Gathering a massive army (khalasar, followers from Volantis/Red Priests, rebelling slaves, mercenary companies), destroying her enemies, putting a decisive end to the obstacles keeping her from sailing to Westeros
>She might be in warmongering mode but focusing entirely on the war and forgetting about the regular people on the ground
Why would she forget this, obviously this could be a major source of internal and external conflict
>makes it dull and lifeless when George had been getting into those things.
Why would it "make it dull and lifeless" just because you say so
>And getting the Dothraki and fighting the current war and dealing with the ironborn
Getting the Dothraki is the FIRST thing that's going to happen, she meets a Dothraki horde at the end of ADWD. Why would she not be dealing with the Ironborn when she returns to Meereen
I wonder how bad the series finale would have to be before you'd recognize that the flaws were a result of the basic choices not the adaptation.
What basic choices?
"Screenwriting is structure"
-- double oscar winning screenwriter William Goldman.