Daenerys Targaryen and Luke Skywalker are the biggest victims of hack writers in both television and cinematic history...

TLJ luke was the only time he was an interesting character. Before that point he was a basic bitch audience self insert.

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Don't worry user everyone knows it even her haters

except Skywalker was established as the jedi who performed the most powerful force feat of the entire saga, and also in a time where everyone was saying it was time for "the new guys", at the end of the movie the force sensitive and future rebel children were being inspired by the story of Luke, not the new guys. This board is too fucking stupid.

period

while i'm here, both SW and GoT are nothing more than dumb fun
feeling bad, sorry or "orphaned" for their end is a serious symptom of mental or social emptiness.
also if a character can be victim of a plot, then the plot is the base and the character is a tool.
a character that lets itself be changed by the plot is a weak character from the start.

>then the plot is the base and the character is a tool
even actors and actresses seem to forget this and become marks for their characters, they forget they are tools too. fucking faggots.

I don’t think it was bad but I do think it was poorly elaborated on as to why he had become this bitter and wrecked man. The exposition to the Star Wars universe is so vague and generic, most of the details still being unsaid. We know almost nothing about what Luke was doing in his time post Return of the Jedi aside from building a temple. We also know next to nothing about Kylo Ren’s time with Luke. It is frustrating having to wait for novelists to “fill in the gaps” at this extremely slow rate. It is a hard sell with how thin the reasoning is within the movie. It could have been a lot better.

Luke wasn’t ruined though. Daenerys was actually ruined. D&D knew that she would eventually go mad and destroy King’s Landing but instead of actually building up to that, they decided to pander to her fans and give her uplifting and sympathetic scenes, rarely showing her flaws. She deserved a lot better.

One can still ignore The Last Jedi because Luke isn’t the main character of this trilogy - his arc was completed with the three George Lucas films. He did his life’s work. You can’t really ignore how much they ruined Dany. Sad state of affairs.

>TFA was okay
It's as bad as TLJ.. Also Solo got the Luke treatment.

>Luke wasn’t ruined though. Daenerys was actually ruined. D&D knew that she would eventually go mad and destroy King’s Landing but instead of actually building up to that, they decided to pander to her fans and give her uplifting and sympathetic scenes, rarely showing her flaws. She deserved a lot better.
She wasn't ruined as she was always destined to burn cities to the ground since season one. They had one mistep in "The Bells" because they didn't include why she made that choice in the actual script. Other than that her character works completely, the average room temp IQ "YASS QUEEN" showpleb thought it was a "heel turn" because everything she was did in the series went over their heads.

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>Literally only 3 good movies.
Only ANH was good

>TFA was okay
It sucked when it first came out.

what the fuck does that even mean
did the movie change? did YOU suck when it first came out? or maybe you suck now

Empire is the best one though.

Luke would otherwise be so vanilla with just ANH.

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Yeah it was a total heel turn completely out of character with contrived shit writing

>Yeah it was a total heel turn completely out of character
No it wasn't

It makes sense if you’ve read the books and you can hear her thoughts and the struggles she goes through. The showrunners did not emphasize the worst aspects of Daenerys enough to make what she did make sense. There was foreshadowing that she would eventually burn them all, but in the context of just the show, it is piss poor and a sudden change in just one episode.

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>It makes sense if you’ve read the books and you can hear her thoughts and the struggles she goes through. The showrunners did not emphasize the worst aspects of Daenerys enough to make what she did make sense. There was foreshadowing that she would eventually burn them all, but in the context of just the show, it is piss poor and a sudden change in just one episode.
No, even in the context of the show she did fucked up things on the regular, but while she did them they played uplifting music and made her seem like the good guy. Then in seasons 7 and 8 they bring her low, as low as she could go, then she snaps. I grant you that they missed one step, but she wasn't too far away from burning random people alive at that point.

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>one misstep
So the death of her friend and dragon is supposed to be changing her, yet we dont see her cry for her dragon, and she hasnt spoken to her friend since last season.

>So the death of her friend and dragon is supposed to be changing her, yet we dont see her cry for her dragon, and she hasnt spoken to her friend since last season.
Viserion was her least favorite child

You can write an alternate ending to lotr where aragorn goes and kills everyone in the Shireen and rationalize it and it'd make more sense than this story. To be fair she's actually more good in the books

>You can write an alternate ending to lotr where aragorn goes and kills everyone in the Shireen and rationalize it and it'd make more sense than this story
What?
>To be fair she's actually more good in the books
She's essentially the same character, we just get a direct feed into her inner voice. Same thing with Reek, book reek is 10 times more interesting because we get those great inner monologues that are a huge part of the character.

Why does Like want to shoot her?

TFA was shit. It was boring, literally every plot point and setting was a ripoff of OT star wars movies. There was nothing new, interesting, and creative. I guess all of that doesn't make it shit per say, but what does make it shit is the fact that it ruined old star wars movies and characters.

Everything that was accomplished in the OT was undone. The empire was replaced with the first order who destroyed everything the rebels accomplished, and then the rebels were replaced with the resistance for the same tired plot point.

And the worst part is how they destroyed the characters, completely ruining their arcs and reversing all development they had over the OT. Han goes from a cynical, bitter, smuggler to a Hero and marries leia, and then they turn him back into a bitter, cynical smuggler who is estranged from Leia and murdered by his own son.

Leia is still fighting for the same thing she was fighting for in the OT, she's estranged from Han and her son is evil.

And don't get me started on how badly they bastardized Luke. Absolutely horrible what they did to his character.

So they destroy all the old characters to replace and then replace them with terrible new characters. You have Finn who did nothing of significance in the first movie except give comic relief, and then in the second he goes on the worst subplot/b-story in SW history.

Poe does nothing of significance in the first movie, and in the second movie he just serves as a tool for Rian Johnson to subvert our expectations by making Holdo an unexpected hero. Everything Poe did was in the right and justified and Holdo was being unreasonable, all Poe did in the second movie was set up a bad plot point.

Then there is Rey who has no weaknesses, no flaws, no growth, no development. A literal mary sue. There's no tension when watching her, she does everything by herself without anyone's help, because she can just do everything. Such a boring character.

TFA was shit, this trilogy is shit.

"The Empire Strikes Back" has no plot structure, no character studies let alone character development, no emotional or philosophical point to make. It has no original vision of the future, which is depicted as a pastiche of other junk-culture formulae, such as the western, the costume epic and the Would War II movie. Its specialty is "special effects" or visual tricks, some of which are playful, imaginative and impressive, but others of which have become space-movie clichés.

You are a literal brainlet if you think what Dany did was shocking or out of character. Everything about her had been building towards that ending for several seasons.

Empire is an incomplete movie that blew too much screentime on Han and Leia who even as a kid I thought were only given scenes and captured so they'd have something to do, regardless of how filler it is.

TFA is utter shit, it's a goddamn rehash of everything we saw in previous movies.

The prequels are awful in their on way but at least Lucas tried to expand or do some different shit, and you have yo keep in mind he was stuck directing them, he literally couldnt get someone else to do it.

J.J Abrams was so scared of going down the same road, that he made the most unoriginal, insipid but commercialy correct film that he could, which in essence, made him shit the bed even harder.

Both are equally shit.
Pretty much all of the garbage shown in TLJ already got established in TFA

TFA in itself is also a huge mess - Especially if you look at the early Lucas concepts and see WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN and how Disney and Jew Jew Abrams ruined it.

>The map everyone was looking for in TFA was originally not for Luke but a Jedi temple
>They were originally going to have to go to the bottom of an ocean on Endor to get the map from the emperor's throne room in the wreckage of the Death Star II and not from some random old guy
>Rey's is a junkrat like in TFA EXCEPT she servers her purpose well but getting that map out of the Death Star wreckage
>Jakku was going to be a cross between Raxus Prime and a swamp and not just another desert planet
>Han instead of being a half-dead man was instead a badass space cowboy
>Actual new designs all around instead of just OT hommage copycats
>Ben Solo got seduced by Darth Talon and didn't go to the dark side because Luke tried to kill him
>Luke is Luke and is looking for the temple to fight the Jedi Killers not because he is an old pathetic old man running away from everything
>The knights of Ren actually exist
>Snoke was going to be basically Darth Krayt.

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There is absolutely nothing enjoyable about TFA.

There's no sense of story at all.

Rey is just a Mary Sue. Fucking broke poor girl who just so happens to be one of the greatest pilots you've ever seen and is able to use the force with almost no exertion. Like who the fuck can actually stomach this? If she had been a he people would criticise this shitty character development way more.

Black guy is a Brit speaking in an American accent chewing out hammy dialogue. THEY LITERALLY COPIED HIS FUCKING COWARD STORYLINE FROM HAN! DONT ANY OF YOU NOOBS REMEMBER THIS?

Poe Dameron is pilot guy who essentially does nothing the entire movie.

Kylo Ren is Leia and Han's son (oh mur gurd whooda funk it?) and is basically a rip-off whiney Anakin, but that's okay because he's Vader's Grandson and he idolises him or some shit. Once again more excuses for JJ Abrams literally flat out copying the previous movies.

THEY BROUGHT BACK THE FUCKING DEATH STAR. THEY RIPPED OFF R2-D2 WITH BB-8 WHO LITERALLY IGNITES AN INTERNAL LIGHTER AT ONE POINT AS A THUMBS UP TO THE TEAM.

How do you people see anything in this movie other than a focus group at Disney deciding to copy the success of the previous films, add in a shit ton of action, have no plot as to not confuse the masses and make a shit ton of money off merchandising?

The prequels are not perfect, far from it. However, at least Lucas fucking tried with them. At least he actually invented a fucking story. At least those movies have the Lucas magic feel to them.

The new films are just utterly bland and that's why so many of you sing their praises, because you're fucking bland.

TFA was filled to the brim with plot conveniences. Compare ANH where so many things are connected. Leia’s mission was to deliver Obiwan and the Death Star plans to Alderaan. It’s all but explicitly said in ANH that Obiwan wanted to train Luke to become a Jedi all along. Thus Luke being brought along and R2 winding up on Luke’s planet was not a coincidence. Even R2 coming to him was because he was captured and sold by Jawas, Luke’s uncle wanting to purchase more droids. This is far from crashlanding coincidentally to Rey and BB8 who coincidentally found each other anywhere on the face of a planet. They deliberately sought to rescue to rescue Leia too when discovering her location on the Death Star. This is in high contrast to coincidentally meeting Rey anywhere in a planet sized superweapon. The script is inferior in every regard.

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>Empire is the best one though.

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Why do you think GoT S5 is bad? Currently just finished episode 3, the quality is up there with S4.

It has good and bad episodes. The worst is how cheap the Dorne plot was. It was so bad that actors they hired for main parts (Ellaria and Doran) got cut and the entire storyline scrapped. Season 6 was an improvement but 7 and 8 really aren’t defendable.

Why not just have her destroy the Red Keep? You get to keep the same storyline about her sacrificing hundreds of civilians without her becoming a random psychopath. That at least would have made sense.

I would have preferred evil emperor Luke over incel fish fucker any day

- Ruined Stannis
- Littlefinger's masterplan was to give Sansa's booty to Ramsay
- Boltons who are dependent on Lannister support decide to betray them
- Dorne
- Arya begins the worst plotline that becomes unwatchable in season 6

Almost no more book dialogue so we get gems like "you want a good girl but need the bad pussy" instead.

Season 5 was the worst season until Season 8.

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It's not actually the last episode of Daenerys that was written badly, it was the seasons previously. In the books it's pretty clear that she's meant to be a Griffith like 'I did nothing wrong' villain, but the tv writers actually bought into it and portrayed her white burden ignorant despotism as unironically heroic as they could get away with.

>- Ruined Stannis
Stannis is not the man you imagine from the books. He starts as a honor guy but, as soon as he sees the possibilities magic can bring, he gives up on his values. Of course it's not the best development, but he has been that way since the previous seasons.
>- Littlefinger's masterplan was to give Sansa's booty to Ramsay
This was a weak one indeed.
>- Boltons who are dependent on Lannister support decide to betray them
The Lannisters are weak and almost done by S5. Boltons are the rulers of the North, which is big and quite powerful, so why would they still side with the little lions?
>- Dorne
Haven't got there yet.
>- Arya begins the worst plotline that becomes unwatchable in season 6
Arya was always an insufferable cunt.
Basically, S5 seems the natural following to the other seasons.