Was sword based combat really like these shows depict? Could a skilled swordsman cut down several dozen average armed men in a battle or brawl without any real difficulty besides the stamina required? How do you slice people up or crush them with your hammer and then live to do it again if a battle is just one big mosh pit cluster fuck?
Also, were these fierce knights like jamie lannister, barristen selmy, arthur dayne actually based on real people who racked up huge body counts during their careers?
A sword is a duelists weapon or a backup weapon. It's very versatile, but it's far from the best weapon you could have for any situation. People could have racked up pretty good bodycounts with swords but it's probably a duelists count.
More likely knights had high body counts with lances>daggers>swords.
Isaac Walker
an elite swordsman could absolutely merc several dudes, every blow is a potentially fatal/incapacitating strike
wish the show had more shield combat though, they are fucking very important and useful, but swords with no shields does make for more dramatic tension
Jacob Rodriguez
>if a battle is just one big mosh pit cluster fuck? A battle isn’t like that, it’s a series of organised engagements with different units of men in different formations.
Easton Davis
It depends on the situation. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.
The more people involved in the fight... or really, the more factors of any kind involved in the fight.... the less advantageous your personal ability in combat becomes. It is still a big deal though and a highly skilled soldier could definitely rack up a kill count in large scale battles, though it would likely not be a sword being used.
Julian Howard
That's Hollywood, no shields, no helmets. The only one that strayed from that was 300. Based Zack
Jaxson Cooper
>How do you slice people up or crush them with your hammer and then live to do it again if a battle is just one big mosh pit cluster fuck? i suppose you don't, unless you're literally facing peasants while in plate armor. i don't recall ever reading about a famed knight who died of old age, or that had such prowess in fighting that he could outskill people with the same equipment consistently. i'm inclined to believe that someone proficient with guns could rack up a higher kill count than someone adept in melee back in the middle ages, despite the variables for getting killed being much higher in modern day combat.
Easton Watson
Chainmail was already pretty resistant to slashes, hacking, and any thrusts that did not have the full weight of the attacker behind them, and plate armour was all but impenetrable by one-handed swords (longswords, arming swords, etc.) and axes except at the joints and resisted longbows and crossbows quite well except at point-blank range. Between two armoured opponents, a fencing match quickly degraded into a wrestling contest; one-hand sword was only useful for temporarily incapacitating your enemy through blunt damage so that you could stab a dagger into his eyeslit/armpit/groin. Good luck cutting your way down through dozens of mooks like that.
The logical solution to impenetrable plate mail was to switch to weapons with enough leverage to punch through (polearms such as halberd, heavy two-handed swords, morningstars with some seriously heavy business end, 10-metre pikes) or weapons that caused indirect damage through armour (warhammers).
The era when plate armour was available but "rare and priceless" was exceedingly short (unlike in GOT where plate mail was a thing during Aegon's Conquest 300 years earlier but still hasn't taken off fully). When you were actually able to manufacture full plate (the size of the furnace and the size of the steel piece you could heat within was the limiting factor) there is absolutely no reason why you wouldn't equip your entire army with it. So the masses of peasant levies in whatever armour they could scrounge, prevalent in feudal armies, were quickly replaced by professional soldiery who were provided the equipment by their lord (and increasingly by the crown directly, leading to the downfall of the feudal system).
In short, no, GOT swordfights make no sense in historical context for the most part. However, The Hound vs. Brienne in S4 is as close to a realistic fight as you can get, but even then, the lack of helmets is an artistic choice.
Colton Young
Yeah man, a well made sword could cut through armor almost as if it was butter, a well trained swordsman could cut down 2 or 3 people in a few seconds. It reached its zenith in Japan with the invention of the samurai sword, aka the katana in English. In fact it got so bad many knights elected to not even wear any armor at all because it was so heavy and cumbersome and they required a crane to get on a horse.
Landon Morales
Based and historypilled
Adrian Morgan
It's really the worst part about these types of shows.
All of the extras and redshirts are in full armor with helmets and shields and proper protection.
Every single main character never wears a hat, never wears a helmet, never wears a shield, only a sword.
The worst parts are in the scenes in the North in GoT where all the extras are wearing winter clothing including hoods and hats to keep their heads warm while all the main characters wear no cold protection at all. Their entire face would get frostbitten north of the wall.
Easton Peterson
>Could a skilled swordsman cut down several dozen average armed men in a battle or brawl without any real difficulty besides the stamina required? If he was armored, sure. Like, a knight's armor (or at least the good ones) renders him pretty much untouchable to anything except a big hammer. Swords, axes, arrows? Pffft!
If not, then he'd have to be really damn careful even if he's skilled. While his sword is stuck in one guy's body, the next could come in and stab him and then that's the end of it.
>if a battle is just one big mosh pit cluster fuck? Well, if the two armies clashing are worth a damn, then it wouldn't be. I've seen this chaotic stuff a lot in movies, but in reality soldiers had formations, they didn't just run around individually and attack whatever they could find.
>were these fierce knights like jamie lannister, barristen selmy, arthur dayne actually based on real people who racked up huge body counts during their careers? IIRC, the story is based on War of the Roses, but I have no idea about all the individual knights.
>mfw I was a kid I wanted to create a power-armor so that wars could go back to being fought with techno-swords instead of boring guns >mfw I still kinda want to do it[/spoler]
It's nearly impossible for one guy to beat multiple opponents. Hollywood battles where each side charges at each other ending in a mosh pit is unrealistic. Discipline and unit cohesion beats retards. Watch any boxing or MMA, fighters are cagey. A light cut or stab can kill or cripple. The most important thing is not to kill your opponent but to avoid being killed. There were ridiculously skilled knights like William Marshall, who rose from humble origins by winning tournaments.
Charles Thompson
the books actually portray combat quite realistically, when Tyrion doesn't wear a helmet he gets fucked up and loses his nose
Matthew Murphy
I train with my bokken daily in my garage and I'm confident I could walk onto any battlefield and cut down several men with ease.
Parker Foster
Teach me your ways, senpai
Jaxon Flores
>It's nearly impossible for one guy to beat multiple opponents. You have no idea what youre talking about. There are countless historical records throughout the ages, describing how one fighter bests multiple ones in melee combat. From Samurai, to armored knights, to Napoleon-era lancers, to 15th century German mercenaries.
Did you know that you can actually fuck yourself with a bokken pretty sweet? I do it regularly to improve my chi concentration. I'm still not sure about my chakra flow but soon I'll get to the bottom of it.
Gavin Cox
One thing I will say for the show is when killing well armoured lannister men people usually grabbed their capes and aimed for their necks and legs The only exception I can think of is grey worm throwing the spear and Jon using his Valyrian steel sword but armour can't stop it so who cares
Caleb Bennett
>scholagladiatoria>all
Nathaniel Torres
He used a helm but it was only a half helm without a visor iirc
Wyatt Edwards
Didn't Mountain also get impaled through the chest during his duel with Explodeyhead? You know, while wearing plenty of armor.
Carson Jackson
I actually carved a hole in the hilt and I regularly fuck it. I'm exclusively a top.
Brayden Hughes
No? Oberyn went for unarmored parts
Juan Bailey
name one
Brayden Taylor
Lmao what, greyworm stabbed one after the other through their armor in the same episode
>but in reality soldiers had formations, they didn't just run around individually and attack whatever they could find. I always thought this too but in HEMA tournaments they pretty much do just that. Maybe 16 vs 16 is too small for full on formations to make sense but it surprised me they don’t at least close ranks more.
Juan Lee
>unarmored parts Yeah, until Gregor is on the ground. Then Oberyn just jumps him and plants his spear straight into his chest.
Jackson Gomez
I don't know why, because he's not uninteresting or anything, but he literally puts me to sleep. Maybe it's his voice or audio quality or something.
Jayden Hernandez
Maybe read
Alexander Lewis
Based sasuke
Matthew Hill
I would like to mention that "point blank range" is a term brainlet misuse constantly. And it only applies to gunpowder weapons.
Jonathan Evans
There's enough gaps in the lannister armour for that to be possible and you also need to take into account the show is fucking retarded
Aaron Walker
Almost all warfare in all of medieval/ancient/pre-industrial history was done using spears or a variation of a blade on a long stick. Swords were used "in the thick of it" as they are easier to handle and lighter to maneuver with, but if you are a soldier/knight in a battle chances are you are standing side to side with your allies, all of you holding long ass spears and probably shields. There is almost nothing a swordsman, even with extensive training, can do against a spearman who received minimal training.
Noah Moore
After my extensive bokken training I can easily parry a spear. It takes me less than a second to parry your blow, come inside and eviscerate you.
Nathaniel Nguyen
If you are fast enough to parry a strike and completely kill your opponent before they just move their weapon back a few inches towards you then you are either Achilles or a video game character.
Logan Thompson
except they were otherwise just wearing a speedo,when actually spartan knights wore heavy army along with their famous shields, especially a group handpicked by a king.
Ryan Morris
10 meter pikes? What?
Ian Bailey
it's funny as fuck in GoT when you see someone in plate armor getting stabbed right through the chest with a sword where the armor was heaviest and angled for even more protection. you aint getting through that shit with anything less than a warhammer like when Robert smashed that sissy femboy Rhaegar
John Rogers
Real sword fights aren't as exciting or interesting as movies and tv show them. Fencing in particular is extremely boring. This is why people who complain that the sword fights aren't "realistic enough" and are "over choreographed" are retarded.
Lincoln Campbell
No, sword combat was essentially just trying to stove peoples heads in without getting your own stoved in. Infantry generally only used spears in large scale combat anyways.
Chase Miller
Spears are meant to be fucking LONG. Used in formation.
I mean I get that, but 10 meters is like 30 feet, wouldn't that just be all wobbly and shit?
Robert James
Seeing the battle of the trident, assuming they gave Robert his stag helm would be INCREDIBLE
Kevin Jenkins
I don't fear the phalanx. Just give me some good sharp steel and I cut them all down.
Gavin Butler
>cumming inside a man
Justin Scott
Yes he likely meant ten feet. The longest spears would probably be around 3 metres.
Luis Russell
That sounds much more reasonable.
I had an image in my head of a phalanx of dudes trying to use 30 foot spears and they're all wobbly like those novelty pencils.
Nathaniel Cook
They’re just spinning around quickly in place
Aiden Perry
You fucking idiot pseudointellectuals. Nobody ever used shields if you had plate armor. The whole fucking point of plate armor is too negate the need of shields.
If a knight or a noble has trained since he was a child to basically live to fight (I believe most European knights began their combat training at 7 years old), and if he was joocey as fuck, it's not too crazy to consider that he could cut down a good few less trained, less armed opponents in relatively quick succession with nothing but a sword and shield (obviously if they're armoured to shit, there's less options available). However, the numbers they're able to kill in this show is way beyond what I think any reasonable man could soundly take down. Eventually, fatigue will come and some guy is gonna catch you somewhere that'll hurt you too much to focus, and then the rest would finish you off.
Juan Mitchell
I used to be a professional knife fighter, fact of the matter is if someone is running at you with the intent to stab you, there's really not much you can do to stop them. Sure you could parry the first thrust, and the second, but even the best fencers in the world start to run out of options after that point. Let alone if two people come at you with swords at one time, you're fucking dead at that point unless you turn and turbo run away like sonic
Aiden Wright
Jaime barely managed to cut through 10 men to get to Robb and only cause they were trying to capture him.
Nolan Collins
Absolute chad. Dude's got 4 hotties hanging out with him, but he looks totally unphased. bad ass.
Oliver Foster
The first few seasons of GoT have some relatively accurate fights. The key thing to note is that generally a 1v1 did not last very long, probably the best example of this is Jorah's fight at the end of S1, lasts less than a minute. There are records of skilled swordsmen cutting down multiple opponents, but they are very much the exception. Combat is tiring. There's a few who come to mind: William Marshal is probably the best example. He claimed to have defeated over 500 opponents in tournaments over his career.
Parker Jackson
A knight would want a mace against a heavily armored opponent. Blunt weapons work best. You could also half-sword to more accurately stab at the gaps between armor sections.
Brandon Ward
If a knight had plate armor he didn't have a shield idiot.
Josiah Thomas
not that guy but i watched some fencing vids and pretty much every win is done by doing exactly that, parry away the other dude and jab em in the throat, its insanely fast when done by autists who practice alot.
i was in the top few percent of fighters during the third crusade, yes absolutely abnormally strong fighters in full plate with superior reach could cut down men in quick succession of course it rarely happened, actual battles are slow, tense, and gradual, you engage as units and back off regularly to rest, watch football hooligans fight and its basically the same sort of group shape
Dylan Sanchez
>That's Hollywood, no shields, no helmets. The only one that strayed from that was 300. Based Zack
The show Spartacus did a great job at having shields and helmets during the seasons when they were still gladiators. They fought in full historical, closed helms. They even had great inside-the-helmet shots that showed the characters face.
>You fucking idiot pseudointellectuals. Nobody ever used shields if you had plate armor. The whole fucking point of plate armor is too negate the need of shields.
It depends on the period. Shields weren't completely ditched until heat treatment techniques made plate armour good enough. They got smaller but there was still a period when plate armour was still used with shields.
>If a knight had plate armor he didn't have a shield idiot.
At the beginning of the Hundred Years War, small heater type shields were still ubiquitous despite the best equipped knights being in head to toe plate armour. Plate armour wasn't tempered with the techniques and they still wore a hauberk underneath.
David Ward
Cool myth
Dominic Turner
Have sex
Jayden Evans
watch footage of riots/soccer brawls to get an idea of how hand-to-hand combat on a group level looked like.
Jackson Long
If you were an actual knight, it was more likely you were on a horse, with a lance. Footsoldiers were peasants and farmers.
Levi Bell
Mounted lancers used shields. Stop being so angry, and so wrong.
Hunter Cook
you're a medieval knight about to go to the Crusades, what stat do you choose?
STR DEX END INT WIS CHA
Justin Powell
All I need is 20 good men.
Kayden Ross
Someone post Dayne duel wield scene.
Cooper Cruz
Realistic swordfighting is nowhere near as cool as Hollywood swordfighting
>i don't recall ever reading about a famed knight who died of old age
William Marshal?
Brody Barnes
Basically just a huge line trimmer.
Aiden Rogers
>crusade >no FAI
I guess CHA is close enough but come on user, do better
Elijah Sanders
that goes in alignment. crusaders are lawful.
Isaac Garcia
One of the dumbest fucking videos I have ever seen
Jayden Gutierrez
Thank goodness historians like this keep Yea Forums educated
Cooper Ross
Game of Thrones doesn't have realistic swordfighting for the most part. It looks realistic enough for the common viewer but anyone who's done the smallest reading on swordplay would say it's not.
Christian Collins
>if a battle is just one big mosh pit cluster fuck? Because that's not how battles are. That's how hollywood depicts them.
Is there a stat for bowel health? One of my crusading ancestors died of dysentary in Tunisia.
Cameron Gutierrez
Cranes are very powerful, that's why they get to deliver babies.
Luis Perez
Its realistic if you assume one guy seems to know what he's doing and the other guy just got finished marathoning Naruto. I mean except for the loser dying immediately from what looks like a light flesh wound that didn't even pierce his skull.
Jason Perry
>implying knights weren't just slaughtering peasants most of the time
I was told by Mr. Jaegge the history teacher that all the greats had expensive ass armor and most soldiers had cloth. You couldn't really kill Achiles so he would just tear through bums as his gear deflected all their little spears and shit. They were good fighters on top of that doe
Jayden Sanchez
this is really well shown in dragonheart of all things, peasant uprisings getting btfo by knights
Jackson Johnson
Why is this on Natural Geographic? Ice road truckers is better content than this.
Parker Morgan
Finally a fellow user with real historical understanding. It is with good reason that the warrior elite of Japan (known as Samurai, in English) exclusively fought unarmored and scorned the use of polearms and ranged weaponry.
Landon King
We know very little about actual swordfighting or historical warfare. All the sources are massive embellishment at best, and fantasy at worst.
Juan Mitchell
greek cloth armor was better then kevlar tell your teacher he should seek other employment
Dylan Brown
>based zack they were unarmored you dolt, give me armor over just a shield anyday
John Harris
I really hate how every recent sci-fi helmet for major actors is basically a plexiglass sheet with LED underlights just to make sure we can always see their whole face
Fuck, this but seriously Sci-Fi design trends are terrible.
Nathaniel Collins
Site your source
Isaac Watson
looks based to me
Mason Gray
>sissy femboy Rhaegar was a chad, robertcucks will forever be mad since robert WAS A cuck and Lyanna loved his worst enemy silence, angry cuck. This is a Rhaegar thread
>>crusade >>no FAI it's lore accurate, go rape some more byzantine nuns and let the moors occupy spain faggot
James Peterson
Most soldiers were probably untrained twerps so a skilled knight could hack them down in droves. Half of them probably were a hair from fleeing the fight anyway. My theory is that most legendary warriors from history got their reputation from hacking through a horde of peasants
Nathaniel Jones
>let the moors occupy spain faggot
uhh what. the Reconquista took place over centuries and was considered part of "crusading" for most of that time.
>Well, if the two armies clashing are worth a damn, then it wouldn't be. I've seen this chaotic stuff a lot in movies, but in reality soldiers had formations, they didn't just run around individually and attack whatever they could find.
You kids have no clue what the fuck you're talking about. Formations were for starting the battle, they didn't fucking stay in formation the whole time.
James Price
The nameless berserker still fought them one on one.
The sarisa or sarissa (Greek: σάρισα) was a long spear or pike about 4–6 metres (13–20 ft) in length. It was introduced by Philip II of Macedon and was used in his Macedonian phalanxes as a replacement for the earlier dory, which was considerably shorter.
Angel Lee
Pretty sure most knight-on-knight fights ended with a dagger to the armpit.
Grayson Jenkins
Based sarissa-posters.
Adam Mitchell
This. Ever wondered why people stopped building Shiro (Known as Castle, in English)? Master Katana-smiths would fold the steel so many times the trained Samurai could just cut through the stone and enter where they pleased.
Aiden Morales
they did or else they would literally crush the first ranks.
get 5 men to push you up against a wall and see how long it takes before you are crushed to death.
do it
Joseph Flores
This is a bit silly, isn't it? You can't block a proper sword with essentially a fencing sword, right? You'd just bounce off or probably snap your needle dick sword.
Didn't Jon fight and kill a Night's Watchman beyond the wall in front of Wildllings once? I remember the key difference between them was that Jon's sword was Valerian steel which is capable of breaking a traditional sword. He broke the other dude's sword and then killed him.
Brienne has both reach and strength over Arya. And for bits, Arya was doing the right thing by completely avoiding Brienne's sword blows, but any time it seems like Brienne is blocked by the needle...it's just bullshit. Especially because Brienne's sword is fucking Valerian steel itself.
You are already giving them too much credit, im not even a HEMA fag but know Brienne is throwing terrible cuts, she is doing the classic hollywood "one strike at a time" meme without any follow ups or ripostes etc
Isaiah Young
>Lawful Neutral = Islam Literally the only thing that needed to be read to dismiss your entire post.
I'm guessing there's a lot of friendly fire in medieval warfare.
Charles Turner
Not only is it valyrian steel, but it's fucking heavy as shit in the show. Imagine trying to block a double-handed, overhead chop from some literally twice your weight with a rapier in one hand. Absolutely ludicrous.
I owned every single dumb ass comment you made with ONE photo. Shut the fuck up and go polish your cheap Walmart katana, you dumb motherfucker.
Cameron Green
Wasn't the guy Jon killed purposefully throwing the fight? Also, he gets ganked by Ghost mid-duel.
Henry Lewis
god i love spartacus tits and piss
Michael White
One of the funniest/most cringe things I've actually ever seen
Blake Adams
It’s fiction Don’t forget that you have to swing a hulking piece of metal around. People back then didn’t have as much food and didn’t lift, so they didn’t have as much muscle or energy stores. Pretty much, swinging a weapon wildly is too tiring
Oliver Scott
>Three men in elaborate Samurai outfits, helmets, and armor. One man stands while holding a large bow and arrow, while the other two men sit, holding a sword and pole, respectively.
They're fucking korean man look at their eyes. One of them doesn't even have shoes. You think this photo is to be taken seriously? Get out of here, return to reddit.
Adam Lewis
You wont even address because you are too scared of the truth. Yare yare baka gaijin
Parker Flores
Imagine being retarded lol
Caleb Gutierrez
>knights weren't well fed >nor were they in great physical condition Come on, user. Common soldiers and peasant levies, sure, but knights had to be in peak condition to do the shit they did with all that metal on top.
Caleb Miller
the Last Kingdom is nearly all shield walls lol
Ethan Miller
Oh, look, someone who thinks everyone in the middle ages was starving (categorically untrue), and that everyone was dragging zweihanders around.
Dummy, most swords were under 5 pounds.
Brandon Allen
Combat fatalities are down you fucking retarded
Michael Harris
They're Japanese, weeb. You lost. Shut the fuck up already.
Kevin Lee
Umm, no. Wrong. I didn’t think that swords were huge, but try swinging metal around for a while. Your arm will be tired and your rotator cuff will burn. Nights didn’t lift and weren’t as well fed as we are today. I never said they were starving, but most of these people ate nutrient poor food. They drank beer so they were all fat and they didn’t have energy bars like today
Ian Ward
It's like that in the books as well. Every battle they make shield walls, poke each other with shortswords, and take the dead wall holder's places so the wall won't collapse until someone breaches that shit, and then it becomes a massacre. Maybe it was a common thing those days, or Cornwell is a hack.
Brandon Russell
a 2hander swinging from above you cant really parry it full stop, the force is extreme, you grab you're own 2hander with one hand on pommel and the other two thirds up the blade and take the hit between the two points so you're properly braced, then you counter with a pommel strike aimed at their helmet saw plenty of wrists broken trying to parry a sword from above, the force is bone shattering and even if you succeed you're off balance and they're coming for a blow on your now undefended opposing side
Jonathan Martinez
well, it depends on what breed of sparrow.
Carson Richardson
Dummy, they trained constantly, that's literally all they did - fight wars, and train. Nobody was unable to lift a sword because of malnutrition, and the common sword wasn't that heavy. They were lighter than the common farm tools peasants used every fucking day.
>but most of these people ate nutrient poor food. They drank beer so they were all fat and they didn’t have energy bars like today
Back in the day Knights were a martial class that was believed to have something called nobility, what today we would associate with a sort of genetic trait. Nobel men would be physically large and strong, with an almost instinctual attraction to sports, war and martial arts. Kings and princes would be trained from young ages to lead men into battle and master tactics and battlefield skills, to the exclusion of other intellectual pursuits (including reading). Knights would ideally serve their king loyally, but often times did not or could not, and would become highwaymen or form bandit groups, become notorious criminals and wanted men. As an organization they were able to suppress peasants almost completely.
Poor knights, however could be defeated by peasants who had rudimentary training in some martial skills, and martial training was given by some honorable knigts peasants to help them resist above mentioned bandits and highwaymen.
The most skilled knights could be truly formidable and almost undefeatable in single combat, and capable of holding their own against many unskilled men given favorable circumstances.
Matthew Morgan
nah Daemon Blackfyre was a chad, the last official chad targaryen though was Aemon the dragon knight
>they didnt lift amazingly training with a sword works out all the muscles you need to use a sword for extended periods, 'strength training' is complete shit because you need to be 'imbalanced' to fight effectively
Liam Cooper
>t.overweight beer drinker
Nolan Morales
As long as your diet is varied you'll get enough of everything. Sure, modern rations account for extreme nutritional balance, but a diet of meat, fish and vegetables is very substantial. And I suppose training by swinging a sword in full plate doesn't count as "lifting"? Do you assume these people were idle when not on the battlefield?
Owen Bell
Quit watching anime
Camden Bell
They drank beer and whored in their off time
Aiden Diaz
i can tell you've never lifted or practiced martial arts your wrists cant take weight unless they're braced
Christopher Howard
They drank WINE and BOARed off in their time
Gavin Diaz
I like this guy but hate his format. He clearly feels flustered and rushed through most videos, he should really just edit a bit and re-record mistakes. God damn he takes BREAKS during some and doesn't even bother to edit it out.
Henry Russell
2 handed sword is basically a big fucking mace, especially if you pomble them with it
Nathaniel Price
Door were very small in castles for various reasons.
Jonathan James
GODS I was a Dothraki Scream then, Lancel.
Kayden Flores
Götz von Berlichingen. Gerd von Frundsberg. Pierre Terrail. William Marshall. Jean II Le Maingre.
Owen Edwards
>what are Zweihänders
Tyler Thompson
>Nobel Did you mean "noble", spaz?
The rest of the shit you wrote? You got from vidya games. It's shit. "Nobility" was from wealth and political power.
>with an almost instinctual attraction to sports Literally one of the most retarded things I've seen posted on /tv - and that's a high fucking bar to reach.
Tyler Moore
This appears to be based on a book (?) written for peasants training them about basic skill for defeating highwaymen. I believe in this case the sword is only sharp on the end and the middle is gripable. The book basically shows the peasant swinging wildly with the hilt of the sword to land a blunt hit on the knight and then thrust the sharp end into one of the joints on the rouge knight's plate armor. Failure to do this correctly will result in death.
Only a DUMB WHORE WITH A FAT ARSE would meet Bessie and her BIG FAT TITS on an open field.
Alexander Anderson
>The rest of the shit you wrote? You got from vidya games. It's shit. "Nobility" was from wealth and political power.
No this is what people believed back in the day. Noble men had, supposedly, an aura of nobility around them, and were naturally inclined to run around in the woods, hunting animals and jousting with dummies. This was the mindset of the time, has nothing to do with the real causes.
Josiah Cruz
Yep, most deaths in heavy armor were either crush deaths from having your head or ribs stoved in by a hammer, mace or sword and piercing wounds to the throat, under the arm pit or inside the thigh. As far as formations go most people died on the ground. You were pushed or pulled down and somebody above you stabbed you in the neck or gut with a spear or short sword. 'He fell' is literally synonymous with 'he died' in ancient greek, latin and chinese. It's also worth noting that losing formation was when the majority of deaths accured. In ancient china armies numbering in the tens of thousands would square off for hours on end and lose less than a hundred men. Just two full formations of sheild and spear poking at each other for two or three hours before rotating personnel. But when a formation was turned from the flank or broke open by a Calvary charge? Hundreds of guys just getting stabbed trying to run backwards into their own people, sometimes thousands of guys. Real warfare is brutal and efficient and not fair at all.
Kevin Young
Retard.
Hudson Murphy
No, it's not.
Tyler Davis
>accidently cut arya in half
Oh shit lol XD
Asher Morgan
Get in here breastplate stretcher, we're telling shit yourself stories.
Wyatt Price
Yes it is. It's described vividly in Le Morte d'Arthur.
Daniel Martinez
Not that guy but didn't people literally believe god chose nobility?
Adam Perry
Jesus fuck this outfit was the coolest in the show
Austin Rodriguez
SHITPOSTER GET IN HERE, WE'RE TELLING BOAR STORIES
Daniel Flores
Yes, but they also definitely believed in nobility as something noble people had and peasants did not have, and it was something people got from their fathers.
Jason Perez
Power level at the end of season 8.
1. Zombie Mountain 2. Sandor Clegane 3. Arya Stark
Power Gap
4. Jaime Lannister 5. Jon Snow
100. Night King
Angel Nguyen
Interdasting. Makes sense I guess, people were autistic about bloodlines for a long time.
Aiden Peterson
Okay, I'm done with your bait. No more (you)s for you.
Jose Rodriguez
>based Frank Miller ftfy zack is an uneducated dipshit
Tyler Wright
No, they didn't. Not in Europe, anyway. Nobility was just the rank below royalty, most of the titles were awarded or passed down by blood. Most of what people think they know about knights and nobility is from fiction. "Knight" was an honorary title.
Ayden Anderson
Objectively wrong 1. Hot Pie 2. Sam the Slayer 3. Ilyn Payne 4. The Prince of the City of Dorne 5. Gendry "The River" Rivers
Massive power gap
6. The One True King: Salladhor Saan 7. Illyrio "Dissapeario" Mopatis
Even bigger power gap
8. Everyone else
Joshua Anderson
You're saying treatises on fencing written by masters are fantasy? Why?
Wyatt Russell
Shit I meant royalty. My bad. Divine right and all that.
Lucas Walker
No one in this thread has any clue of what they're talking about.
Nicholas Thompson
>The only one that strayed from that was 300. They made up for it by immediately having the Spartans break formation, a formation that was a fucking plot point
John Robinson
>The divine right of kings Basically God made you bigger/stronger/faster/smarter for a purpose, part of his divine plan. And as the inheritor of this gift you had rights and responsibilities above and beyond the common man. You ate better food, wore better clothes and were treated with more respect because God had decided to put you and your ancestors in the position to receive such. Now here's where it gets tricky, you're supposed to use these God given attributes to guide and improve the wellbeing of all mankind. And if you recognize an individual who embodies this superior 'Grace' you're supposed to elevate them in order to nuture and multiply God's bounty on earth. Of course most people just went 'lol fuck the peasants it sucks to be you' but there you go.
Landon Young
NO CLUE, IS IT? IS THAT HOW YOU SPEAK TO YOUR KING?
Gabriel Myers
Sir Tor is brought to Arthur and asked to be made a knight by his father, a farmer of 13 children, because he refuses to work in the field, but spends all day dreaming of being a knight, practicing with a lance and bow in the forest instead. Arthur wisely senses the nobility in the boy, and Merlin declares that he is infact the son of King Pellanor, who raped his mother one day before she and the farmer wed, thus absolving all three of committing adultery.
Anthony Allen
Love when Yea Forumsfags think they’re experts on history.
Ryan Scott
Nice one, thanks. I suppose the monarchy had to be kept far away from most people because even with their superior resources and educations, many of them were just as big shitters as everyone else.
>nobility as something noble people had and peasants did not have, and it was something people got from their fathers. This is true though
Dylan Smith
Endurance is a must in the desert heat against lightly armored Mamluks
Nathaniel Cooper
Absolutely based history bro. Watch ignorant children try to refute this.
Parker Smith
It's the curse of humanity that we're never as smart or as strong or as capable as we think we are and the "lol fuck you I got mine" ideology marries itself this idea of being 'better.'
Juan Bailey
We re talking about a bunch of non armoured people like 3 or 4. Defeating 15 armoured soldiers is a diff thing
Julian Hill
You just described every thread on Yea Forums
Parker Bell
Henry II of France died in a joust when a splinter from his opponent's shattered lance went into the eye slit in his helmet and straight through his eye and into his brain. Even when you are wearing full armor you should still avoid getting hit because shit can happen.
Last tourney I broke 30 lances against my opponent in the finals, I had to shut my eyes every round to prevent damage. You telling me I should have been wearing a helmet the entire time? Where were you then jousting dad?
Landon Nelson
That King Arthur is 100% fiction.
Eli Murphy
Pretty sure you get your info from youtube and should just stop posting
Connor Clark
Y-you did remember to use a horse, right?
Anthony Anderson
Hurr fucking durr, not even him but he's obviously using it to show the attitudes of the time. Why would it being fiction matter at all?
Jason Sanchez
Based
Leo Reyes
Fuuuuuuuck man. I thought the other guy was weirdly fast. From now on you are my combat adviser.
Gabriel Cruz
>I used to be a professional knife fighter
How could that possibly be a career? No matter how could someone is, you'd think the life expectancy would be weeks or maybe months at most
Mason Sullivan
In vacuum, it pays to see the other person's face in case comms short and you need to read lips or just facial expressions
Owen Morales
Yeah, I mean, humans are social animals so fights were really won by Peasant < man at arms < knight in armor < more than one peasant working together < more than one man at arms Also fwiw didn't most medieval combatants try to capture knights to ransom them later?
Anthony Clark
Vikings tho
Nathaniel Flores
Japanese would fight wars as duels. 1v1. Cut down your opponent, scream "next!" And fight the next. Mongolians would zerg. When Mongols popped onto their shores, they wrecked the Japanese.
Jaxson Gomez
Not to be a autist but spears are a 1 handed pole arm and pikes are a two handed pole arm.
Asher Moore
Swords were the standard but what you have to remember in shows swordfighting is choreographed to be entertaining rather than realistic in actual sword fights people try to kill the other one as fast and effeciantly as possible
Lincoln Murphy
"According to Snorri Sturluson, before the battle a single man rode up alone to Harald Hardrada and Tostig. He gave no name, but spoke to Tostig, offering the return of his earldom if he would turn against Hardrada. Tostig asked what his brother Harold would be willing to give Hardrada for his trouble. The rider replied "Seven feet of English ground, as he is taller than other men." Then he rode back to the Saxon host. Hardrada was impressed by the rider's boldness, and asked Tostig who he was. Tostig replied that the rider was Harold Godwinson himself."
Giga-chad
Julian Reed
And by "wrecked" you mean "completely failed two invasions before giving up entirely". The samurai of that era fought as bands of mounted skirmishers supported by light infantry.
You had to publicly identify yourself to the nearby soldiers too or that faggot Hanshiro could claim all of your kills, this set the precedent for massive tally boards being used in battle to count the absurd amount of kills (1000+) every samurai had, and they had to scream their name before and after each one.
Connor Carter
Doesn't help when you exhaust your resources to build the largest armada in history only for "wind, lmao" to nullify most of your army.
Nolan Ward
thats a pike, not a spear
Jose Long
The first invasion was wiped out while retreating back to Korea after only a day or so of fighting while the second one was wrecked after sitting off of the coast of Japan for a month because they couldn't hold any land at all. It's all pretty well recorded by both Chinese and Japanese sources.
if you ever watched the movie the loser begins to fight like an anime character as an insult and for the other guy to get it over. He's sick of being humiliated in front of everyone, he's being toyed with and he absolutely despises it.
Josiah Robinson
That's quite the dishonest telling of the story you've got there.
Connor Turner
2nd invasion was a retarded rush job.
Gavin Evans
Did you even bother to google or look up sword fighting on youtube?
The truth about sword fighting is half of it doesn't involve clashing swords. Half of it is stepping in or out of the way, punching and kicking, or while swords are locked grabbing the opponents arms and their own sword and stabbing and slicing their throat.
>training with a bokken My waster would decimate your poor little bokken
Joshua Gutierrez
tip harder fag
Kevin Martinez
>tfw, you're so peasant you have to shoop in socks
Colton Bennett
I pray to Jesus and he lets me take all 6 as main stats with perfect rolls at first level. 18s across the board.
Anthony Lopez
You were more likely to be knocked out with a head kick than cut down with a sword as a night in full plate.
Nolan Sullivan
why don't you just wear goggles
Eli Morris
Well, yeah. Which is why knights were actually proficient with more than just a sword.
Thomas Allen
non period safety gear is banned
Bentley Ortiz
of course shield walls were common in Viking/Anglo-Saxon combat.
Camden Rogers
More honest than "1v1 duels" and "wind, lmao".
Isaiah Bailey
If we're talking about the average skirmish or the most common of sword fighting techniques in Europe, we only have a vague grasp on how these battles actually carried out, and 99.9999% of information that is collected is in the form of some monk or aristocrat's feathery words. Said feathery words are collected from descriptions from soldiers without ever having had been on the battlefield, "fencing" instructors who themselves have almost never actually entered a battlefield in their lives (spending 99% of their time in isolated duels against others who have never been in battlefields), as well as documents that take the word of a man who swings his sword with an assumption of how it'll work and publishes it as a master grade technique with some research behind it. This is all after we account that we're receiving about 5% or less of the historical documents written on these subjects that have survived long enough to be reproduced and those reproductions having survived long enough to be collected in 20XX, and out of those, we wind up with things like Arthurian Lore bundled right alongside halfswording techniques in terms of their legitimacy.
Anybody who thinks that every ancient tome is a factual account from some grizzled, war-wracked veteran of 1000 warzones is a retard. Worse yet is the fact that since the overwhelming majority of actual soldiers died in combat, and what few survivors went home and never wished to enter battle again, you lack in accounts of the terrors of warfare back then, only presumptions and extrapolation based on available technology and present culture.
do faggots actually joust still, dress up and play pretend?
Matthew Cooper
>the overwhelming majority of actual soldiers died in combat, and what few survivors went home and never wished to enter battle again ??? what the fuck Battles weren't nearly that deadly.
Hudson Perry
Nice way to get your chest caved in.
Hudson Ward
50%+ casualties on both sides was typical
Justin Scott
Casualty doesn't mean dead. Also no unit could suffer even 20% causalities and consider itself effective. Majority of deaths in pre gunpowder battles was from the route, not the actual combat itself.
armors weren't there just for show, they helped nobility not get killed by most peasant weapons like swords
only the halberd or a knife to the throat was able to take most full armored nobles
Jaxson Jones
That's just wrong. That would only serve to deplete your army and open you up to being attacked by a third party. The overwhelming victories were not pyrrhic victories
Henry Phillips
t. leaf villager incel
Jonathan Kelly
Back then a war was basically 2 or 3 battles at most and most of the troops were random ass peasants who were plentiful
Austin Edwards
Shut the fuck up Crusader Kings veteran
Jonathan Kelly
If both sides lost 50% of their men for 2-3 battles there would be no peasants or nobles to run the countries that they fought for.
>tfw no wise burly master to destroy your defenseless little bokken every night
Cooper James
Don't know what that is, some video game? The number still only worked out to a few thousand in total during the war most times, a fraction of the population.
Expanse had full cover face helmets for the martians in season 1 I believe, the producers or some faggy focus group said/thought it was confusing I fucking liked it, shit might have been confusing but you just saw a bunch of marines duking it out against the boarding party and I loved how confusing the engagement was
A skilled swordsman is just as vulnerable in a big clusterfuck battle as the next jackoff. That's not what wins the day in an actual battle. That's coordination and good decision making from the higher ups, and discipline, training, and ferocity from the guys with boots in the mud. There were absolute 1v1 legends in history, like Musashi and that German guy who wandered the holy Roman Empire just learning to fight better one duel at a time. Those guys were good at duels, though. Not battles. Usually, more than one opponent means all your ability is for nothing; you only have one pair of eyes, and controlling that situation is next to impossible.
Also, battles didn't usually devolve into a big mosh pit. That's utter chaos and is bad for both sides. Better to retreat if it comes down to that. They were often long pushing contests, shield-on-shield, and exhausting endurance contests of guys being put into different formations, moved to different positions to try and gain some kind of edge up where the opposing force would no longer be in tidy ranks but your guys still would be.
Luke Clark
A pitched medieval battle would quickly dissolve into a cluster fuck mosh pit of people hacking at each other in the mud. In that environment you would see outstanding fighters cutting swathes in crowds but they were a rare breed, think the guy who plays the mountain born 800 years ago.
Mason Butler
>Yes it is. It's described vividly in Le Morte d'Arthur.
Of course, believe the words of a drunkard poet who wrote about King Arthur whilst in debtor's prison. What an accurate source...
Nathaniel Evans
spearmans walk in formation tho, often with shields you brainlet You have no room to close the distance because they stand close together
Parker Scott
>A battle isn’t like that, it’s a series of organised engagements with different units of men in different formations. Which are all mosh pits of horror.
John Gray
Based history user.
I blame anime for your ignorance and stupidity user. Or at least mostly anime.
Henry Smith
Historians have literally no idea how real sword fights played out. All they have are crude and/or idealized art depicting sword fights. There are no historical writings describing what actual sword combat was like.
Dylan Myers
>A pitched medieval battle would quickly dissolve into a cluster fuck mosh pit of people hacking at each other in the mud
No, nobody wanted that, nobody benefited from that. I'm not saying that it never happened, but if your leadership knew jack shit, that's not what happened. If your ranks break to that point, everyone is going to run the fuck away because there's zero benefit to continuing the fight if the ranks are that intermingled. Even with good coloration on your uniforms it'll be difficult to tell friend from foe if that happens, and if you die in a battle like that, you're just throwing your life away. You don't gain any ground, you can't sort out whether you're winning or losing, it's full retard.
>you would see outstanding fighters cutting swathes in crowds
Absolute fiction. If you get caught in something like that, no amount of skill will help you to do anything but escape. Hacking through a few guys on your way out of the botched engagement? I'll bet it happened, and I'll bet it was experienced guys who were able to keep calm rather than anime-tier fighters. Your martial skill isn't worth anything in a completely disorganized shitfit mob. You could be bashed on the back of the head, literally slip in mud and get stabbed, get dogpiled by any amount of fighters inferior to you that exceeds one. Multiple opponents means death. Take a current UFC champion and put him in an octagon with two state-level amateurs. He's fucked, in all likelihood.
Jackson Collins
Can I guess your age user? Is it... 17?
Jordan James
this, ever seen a wall of death?
Jason Gonzalez
DEX and END, I'm sure my superior speed will prevail against the muslim hordes
Ian Morris
>Was sword based combat really like these shows depict? Could a skilled swordsman cut down several dozen average armed men in a battle or brawl without any real difficulty besides the stamina required?
No. In real life, if multiple people rush you at the same time in anything but a straight line, and especially if they are warriors, you're fucked. You might get one or two, but others will take you down. Even if you're a knight in full armor, they're going to take you down and someone is going to slip a blade in your armpit while the others bludgeon you.
However, if you are in a defensible position, it is possible for one guy to take out a lot of others. One historical example I can recall is an early medieval battle in which a single two handed axeman defended a crossing against dozens of foes. They were only able to approach him one at a time on the narrow bridge and he was skilled enough to slaughter many of them, with the bodies falling into the underpass. Archers tried to hurt him, but arrows couldn't really penetrate his coat and maille. He was so full of arrows that, according to the account, he looked like a pincushion. Anyway, IIRC, he was eventually taken out by men who had gone under the bridge and then stabbed him with polearms.
David Sanchez
I once saw a chad on a beach ko like 4 people and beat 5 others in a brawl
Tyler Rodriguez
Nope. They ended with one guy removing a gauntlet to show himself surrendering and then being held for ransom.
Cameron Perez
>He was so full of arrows that, according to the account, he looked like a pincushion. Anyway, IIRC, he was eventually taken out by men who had gone under the bridge and then stabbed him with polearms.
What a chad death. RIP bridge-nigga.
Alexander Perry
Omae is foolish otoko. Honmono warrior don't hide behind shields and their nakamas. They tatakai face to face. Too zannen omae still behave like a barbarian. One nichi life will teach omae a kitsui lesson, kiddo.
Did not one of them make an attempt to put him on his back? That was standard procedure against armored opponents throughout history. If you can successfully put the other guy on his back, you've beaten him. If the fight stays standing, a superior striker in a brawl can certainly BTFO multiple retards. But once chad is on his back, he's at the mercy of his opponents. That's why greco-roman wrestling is so dominant. It's just a complete system of putting people on their back and keeping them there.
Even if a guy absolutely outweighs you, if he's on his back and you're on top, you have absolute advantage.
Kayden Perez
Have sex
Jose Nelson
I would not be so categoric. Spear is the king of battlefield but in something like a 1 vs 1, it s a very hard weapon to master and harder to use than a sword. So it depends of the context of a fight.
Wyatt Garcia
>not going with plate armour and shield Thank you for making my job easier
youtube.com/watch?v=Cn36Pb8z3yI This choregraphy is based on real swordfight and it s better than anything you actually have in everything. As far as I know, only the japanese and chinese seems to do some competant swordfights. Damn Kenshin's movies' swordfight are certainly entertaining.
Colton Young
>watching Dredd >expect Karl Urban to take his helmet off at some point so he can flaunt his face around >never does God I love this movie.
That's some anime tier shit. It's really poorly done, they're just clashing swords for the sake of clashing, there were so many times when someone could have gone for a strike in one of those dumb overacted reels they were doing.
youtube.com/watch?v=nB8tiSMCwRE This isn't realistic either, because they aren't going for killing blows, but it's legitimate swordsmanship. Both of these men were trained fencers.
Mason Nelson
No, the worst part of the show was that the character had recognisable helmets. The hound did at least and it wouldn't have been hard to make a memorable helmet for the rest. And in many scenarios they could have had characters wear a helmet without a visor (iirc in the books Davos specifically says he wears one because he likes the extra fow)
>only one post ITT mentioned The Duellists cringe thread
Daniel Morgan
Str and End Then proceed to incite a revolt and kill off the crusaders in order to save my Muslim brethren
Ryan Gutierrez
You’re right it should be Lawful good
Jose Perez
A meme film
Benjamin Murphy
cranes are a myth. they used small catapults to get on their horse. sometimes they aimed incorrect, that's why they put armor on the horse too, to prevent killing their horses while they shoot themselfes on their back. learn to history Yea Forums
Grayson Adams
Warrior monk god mode, STR/WIS heavy build
Easton Jones
What the fuck? They are aiming for real target, the temples of the head for exemple and trying to get in position for estoc, just like in historical fencing manuals. It s of course choregraphed to be entertaining but hell, it s a fine display of techniques and actual swordfight.
Austin Howard
Remember went out of it's way to show how effective armor is? And then D&D completely forgot and had the Drothraki effortlessly slaughter fully armored soldiers? youtu.be/IwUALmpmPOw
Don't forget that knights would have been much better fed growing up, meaning you could expect them to be bigger/stronger than underfed peasants. This was especially true in ancient China.
>Blow a ton of money on plate armor to protect yourself from dying >"Would you also like to strap on this shield so that it's taking direct blows, and your armor only receives the deflected hits?" >"Nah fuck that lol" >Die to a morning star to the chest
Jack Moore
Troy with Brad Pitt had some pretty amazing shield action, they can bring some real value to a scene
Ryder Bailey
Ho yeah, forgot about that show. Movie was quite bad but Brad Pitt and his fights were actually awesome.
Andrew Powell
Goddammit the show used to be so good. That may be my favorite scene from the first season.
>no further horselord
Austin Morgan
very underrated line
Ryan Lopez
>people unironically think this is like real combat
Andrew Young
While you were shitposting I studied the blade
While you were not having sex I mastered the dagger
And now you're hear on an Indonesian basket weaving forum and have the audacity to ask me about sword combat?
>"fencing" instructors who themselves have almost never actually entered a battlefield in their lives (spending 99% of their time in isolated duels against others who have never been in battlefields) This is literally irrelevant to how people fought in duels though, and while I'm at it the opinion of the average medieval soldier is what's totally irrelevant, they'd have fuck all idea about how "a battle is fought", they had no hand in strategy, that was the job of the aristocrat generals and their feathery words. >This is all after we account that we're receiving about 5% or less of the historical documents written on these subjects that have survived long enough to be reproduced and those reproductions having survived long enough to be collected in 20XX And what do you think is more likely to get reproduced, the works of some nobody with no credibility or the works of a highly celebrated master that spreads far and wide?
