/got/

didn't it just push the rocks apart, like a powerful water jet stream?

DIE GOBLIN

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>there are """people""" who think Arya could beat Brienne in a fair 1v1 duel, rather than the gimped sparring session where Brienne was holding back for most of it

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>mfw janny tried nuking /got/ a few days but it didnt work
STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS posting lives to fight another day

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So everyone always talks about season 5 being the drop-off, but cracks showing beforehand. What was the first major 'crack' of the show?

>using live steel in the sparring context is the first obvious red flag that Jeoffrey is a sadistic psycho in the books
>nah senpai its so cool bruh let's get the crayons

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STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS
STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS
STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS

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Probably changing Robb's baby momma. The smaller, more well received changes were the things that pumped dabid's ego up to the point they pulled shit like the Dorne arc.

twenty good men

in the books, if dragons burn the city it will be because the city is made of wood because GRRM didn't base it on Dubrovnik.

but then again it's hard to see how the city will survive the Great Sept Wildfire Explosion in the books.

I personally don't believe bookDany is going to burn KL: the vision of falling ash in the throne room isn't in the book's version of the Houses of the Undying but was invented by DnD

Season 1 Episode 1 Daenerys doesn't mention the Red Door & Lemon Tree, which is a critical part of her personality.

I don't see any mod posts in the archive? Regardless it would be completely retarded to ban /got/ only a week after the show ended, given that they allow generals for a single movie (i.e /reylo/ and /alita/ to go on for months and months)

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Characters butchered by D&D:

>Jon
>Dany
>Cersei
>Jaime
>Stannis
>Barristen
>Blackfish
>Doran
>Tyrion
>Varys
>Robb
>Sansa
>Arya
>Euron
>Littlefinger

Am I missing anyone?

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Reminder they book Jon and Arya would never leave each other if they reunited

fucking up the Tyrion marriage story because DUMB IT DOWN FOR THE NORMIES DAN GIVE ME THE HUMAN COLOURED CRAYON

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the last 2-3 seasons it really took off, but there was growth every season since the first.

Kek

>I personally don't believe bookDany is going to burn KL

I don't believe anything from season 8 will happen. Screencap

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The entirety of Dany's storyline post-Viserys was excruciating to watch and I remember not a single thing from her pre-Harpies other than WHERE ARE MUH DRAGGINZ, getting railed by drogo and birth of dragons. Also Jorah shouting KHAAAAAALEEEEESIIIIIIIII up at a tower or something

*that

>I don't "hate"
>except for niggers, fuck niggers

beauty

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youtu.be/8mByDcrNSV0

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>Reminder they book Jon and Arya would never leave each other if they reunited

yes because Jon and Arya love each other in quasi-romanitic way.

Arya was Jon's most beloved sibling growing up.

In the show, he has four scenes with her and it's all basically "wasup?"

Hypothetically speaking. If Balon started his rebellion while Ned was still alive would he have executed Theon? Would Robb have?

Was Theon really in the wrong for siding with the Ironborn?

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Season 2. Tywin meeting Arya, Lady Talisa, and changing everything that happened at Qarth.

shirtless Ramsey vs. Asha

Based STANNIS poster

/alita/ is still up because janny is a fan and actively posts the threads and replies to them

'ate suvnas
'ate Starks
'ate me dad
'ate Theon
'ate being a bastard
'ate Ironborn
'ate Jon Snow
luv me Reek
luv me flaying
luv me Randa
luv me dogs
luv me wife
luv me dad's attention
Simple as

Very true but that’s kinda hard to depict since a lot of ASOIAF depend on inner monologues.

Lack of
Arya and Jon warging stuff
Jeyne Westerling
Tysha

Daily reminder that Arya and Bran never once reacted to Rickon dying and when Arya came back to Winterfell Sansa felt the need to bring up Joffrey's death and Cersei and not mention Rickon in any way whatsoever

and she didn't know either. When she gets to Winterfell she asks the guards for Rodrik Cassel or Maester Luwin.

Why did the show just jump over this?
He was her fucking baby brother.

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Edmure is one of the most egregious imo, despite being a fairly minor character.

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Tywin meeting Arya is one the changes I actually like tbf

>What was the first major 'crack' of the show?

Robb Stark

the reality is that all the seasons have shitty ideas like when LF gives Ros whoring lessons in season 1.

season 5 is where the showrunners decided to do their own version of the remainder of the story. it introduced the idea of a single Big Bad (and the fact that he can be one-shot, which is inherently a shitty idea) and dumped or completely changed a lot of plotlines.

No, Ned has raised and groomed Theon for years. If anything he would just kill Balon and have Theon take the seastone chair.

Yes Ned would. Robb might balk but he would eventually be forced to do it, else he’d look weak to his bannerman.

Balon already gave up on Theon so he was fucked either way. If I was Theon, I would’ve just fucked it off to Essos and try to make a living as a sellsail, smuggler, arms dealer or something.

>Tywin is waiting in the throne room for Amory and Gregor to return with the bodies of Elia and her children, furiously stamping wax readying messages for marriage alliances
>suddenly a swarm of loyal Targaryen guards with Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon behind them come into the throne room
>Tywin grits his teeth, makes an MMHM sound and starts looking around for some more wax to stamp before his attention is drawn to the ground in front of him by a black cat with blood on it's mouth
>it's Rhaenys' cat, Balerion
>Tywin speaks
>"And who are you?"
>Balerion looks up at him and his eyes flash as he leaps up in lightning speed for Tywin's throat
>roll credits
>and who are you
>written for television by D&D

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Rickon just gets shafted. Even in the books the only Stark who ever interacts with him on-page is Bran iirc.

Ned never would have sent Theon to the Greyjoys in the first place, that was so retarded it made my head hurt when I read it.
If capped Theon would be executed by Ned for sure, by Robb probably but not for certain. Theon wasn't wrong to side with his family though, Robb was a moron for putting him in the position. The fuck was Theon supposed to do? Go against his family and take the side of the people who held him hostage for ten years?

Ellaria and the Sneks
Renly and Loras
Rickon and Bran

No it's not just open her first scene with her dreaming of the big house with the Red Door with her and Viserys as children for a few seconds then have Viserys wake her up while she's in the hot tub to molest her and tell he about the future molesting.
Then have her mention the house and lemons to Jorah fucking once.
There, Dany's character is now fixed and she has real motivations not "i want the iron thrones because it is my by right" which was the most unbelieveable shit in the show.

It had its moments with their banter but Book Tywin would’ve kept Arya as a hostage once he found out she was a Northern noble girl.

Plus we lost a crucial insight into the Red Wedding unfolding with Arya’s viewpoint of Roose Bolton and how pissed the Freys were.

King Robert not being cast as a black man

Even thought he doesn't exist in the books, Night King was ruined in season 7 and 8.

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Yeah, that's the problem. In a vacuum, they were cool scenes; well-acted and with nice chemistry.
Logically, they ended up making little sense.

Davos going to Skagos is literally the thing I was most looking forward to back when I believed TWOW would ever be released.

The ruined him the moment he was recast.

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>Balon was preparing his rebellion before he even knew of Theon's arrival

that's some cold-blooded shit

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>Davos going to Skagos is literally the thing I was most looking forward to back when I believed TWOW would ever be released.

I would love to see Skagos

What is it like?

Yeah I would have preferred the book harrenhal story but it wasn't a horrible change tbf

He does exist in the books though, he's just vastly, vastly different. He got to fuck an Other, which makes book NK more of a chad than the show one.

what's the screencap from?

the thing that's convinced me is re-reading the House of the Undying chapter in ACOK since ep6. Dany is presented in direct opposition to the forces of undeath, to the point that GRRM practically comes out and tells the reader that she's the hero: Jon Snow has nothing close to it in the books.

plus I re-read a chapter of AFFC and Aemon literally tells Sam that she's the Prince Who Was Promised on his death bed.

sure it *could* all be red herrings, but it would be even less acceptable than in the show given how her character is set up.

QFT. TWOW is coming out July 2020 so I hope it doesn’t disappoint.

it's a shithole populated by cannibal wildlings that nominally respect the authority of Winterfell but never actually commit to any of their obligations
iirc

Watching season 1 on stream and holy shit costumes were so good back then.
How did they managed to make everything technical so much better with much smaller budget

>he's just vastly, vastly different.

Night's King is not the same person as Night King

Night's
Night

But it has UNICORNS

Balon is a retard. Why raid a cold wasteland when there’s richer pickings in the Reach and Westerlands?

I enjoyed the Arya/tywin scenes but it meant we didn't get important creepy roose scenes so the reveal that he was a High Vampire Shapeshifter/Bodysnatcher would come out of nowhere so they cut it.

>the only reason i """liked""" season seven was because of him
>dies in 8x3
>realize the show sucks

That is the real bummer, that scenes so nice amounted to nothing and were uncharacteristic of Tywin
How come that Maisie could act those scenes out so well? Was Charles carrying the scene that much?
I'm willing to believe that, as seriously every scene the man is in is perfect

>but then again it's hard to see how the city will survive the Great Sept Wildfire Explosion in the books.
Simple, this won't happen. Cersei already destroyed the Hand's Tower with Wildfire to underscore her slippage into madness, the novelty is gone. Also, Loras isn't a flamboyant gay (emphasis on flamboyant, he's an upstanding knight who happens to favour the company of men) in the books and also currently recovering from severe hot oil burns received while storming the walls of Dragonstone, so that part is out of the window as well. Cersei also cannot rule without Tommen on the throne, and he's a toddler.

they cared

Cast her

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Because fuck Starks I guess

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I believe Theon was also butchered. I hated the "You're a Stark" shit and the putting the Stark badge on his corpse. It's not the point of his character and it ignores the turmoil and lack of identity he had his entire life
>Yes, my captors were so very kind to me, you love reminding me of that. Everyone in this frozen pile of shit has always loved reminding me of that. You know what it's like to be told how lucky you are to be someone's prisoner? To be told how much YOU owe THEM?
This being brushed over and just reduced to "lmao you're one of us breh" was absolute shite

>o boy o boy i cant wait to learn more about the WW and what they truly want
>they want to wipe out the memory of humans
>okay...but why?
>.......

flashbacks are much more expensive than people realize, because they often entail new sets and casting actors which will otherwise never have roles. I was honestly impressed as fuck with how well BURN THEM ALL Aerys turned out.

One of the Frey girls

Closest we've ever been to it was when Sam sailed southward on his way to Oldtown (stopping off in Braavos first of course where Maester Aemon dies).

The men there are only de-jure part of the North but are really practically independent.
They're cold heartless cunts who apparently eat eachother and still practice the law of the first night.

Sam saw it on the boat but they never set foot on it.
Rickon and Osha are there though apparently.

Fat Walda Frey

>July 2020
I wonder what apology he'll write in his notablog in july 2020

Areo Hotah, the whitest man in Dorne, married to his axe. Replaced with a black actor with a tiny spear.

5 of the Sandsnakes, hiding across the whole country.

Kindly Man and "Jaqen H'Ghar".

Its one fucking letter and an apostrophe. Obviously show NK was meant to be based on the book one.

it is the Isle of Exposition where we will find out everything about the backstory of the Others, the Children and the north that GRRM can't figure out a way to fit into Bran chapters.

>TWOW is coming out July 2020
based on what?
george saying to those kiwis "If I don't have it released then you can put me in jail" ?

That doesn't mean a thing.
I can respect the complexities and the vastness of it all but when he's focusing on other useless shit than 0.1% of his fanbase give a shit about my patience wears thin.

Ironborn are in desperate need of wood, and the North has shitloads

Kek
>I promise, I'm writing

NORF

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For such a shite actress/character, Arya got some really good interactions
Arya/Tywin
Arya/Hound
Arya/Brotherhood
Arya/Jaqen
weird

If she is Fat Walda can I be cast as Roose Bolton pls

Helaena Targaryen

I think people underestimate how much of a psychological impact costume design can have.
The fact that everyone has dressed in the same featureless dark leather is incredibly detrimental to the world-building. It makes everything feel so closed-off and small. You forget the characters are supposed to be nobility. You forget that peasants even exist. You forget that there are many different houses. It is really just horrible.

Season 2 drifted away too much from the books. In S1 they changed a few things for budgetary reasons, in S2 they made stupid changes just because they could.

Some of these changes had huge ripple effects on the story later.

Also they started dumbing down Littlefinger and Tyrion already in S2.

/asoiaf/ on Yea Forums when?

>The Hound
>evolves from brutal killer to price joffrey to rouge fuck authority figure to pacifist
>doesn't go back to build a community in the riverlands that Septon Ray wanted to set up
>no he turns on a fucking dime in like one episode and goes back to king's landing to have some stupid bullshit meme battle with his brother

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ashara stark
1065 not goblin children

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THIS

I also think Theon’s shame was the fact that he was NINETEEN in AGOT. He’s friends with Robb a guy whose 5 years younger than him and the only guy willing to be friendly to Theon.

Jaime, Theon and even Stannis are my favorite characters that grew on me since AGOT to ADWD. They’re all painfully flawed and you hope for the best.

I get what you're point is, but I feel Theon being accepted by the Starks as one of them does make sense
The scene when he is with Ramsay where he is talking about that Ned was his real father, and that Robb and such were truer siblings than his actual ones. That scene made it clear that despite him really caring for Yara, he does feel more kinship to Stark than Greyjoy
Damn, the scenes where Theon speaks his mind about his torn feelings were always so good

Isn't it a critical part of her arc cause it is what caused her cling to the idea she could have a peaceful, calm life? Hence why she's at war with herself in ADwD and finally concludes dragons don't plant trees in the final chapter of that book? Ironically, for showfags, that's the same chapter that contains the 'sunset found her squatting' thing that has been meme'd hard. It was meant tongue in cheek/to be amusing and the chapter as a whole is a damn good one.

>characters Dabid actually improved
What in the name of actual living fuck was George thinking when he created daario's appearance? He looks absolutely fucking retarded. I bet george thought this will be really badass

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the Great Sept explosion is one of the few things in season 6 that is actually solidly set up in the books, down to Varys having a motivation to do it, and the kind of historical inspiration that would naturally make GRRM really hard (the Gunpowder Plot). the point is for Varys to do it so Cersei is blamed to help Aegon.

sure it may not happen but it's one of the events that is far more likely to be of GRRM's devising, along with Hold The Door.

It's a child actor tho, and they could have reused the temple Dany and Viserys were already staying at, it looked Braavosi enough, specially for season 1.
All they needed was a red door prop and a lemon tree.

I liked the casting for Areo Hotah. The guy seemed cool and commanding enough for Areo. They just ruined everything about Dorne, especially when he and doran got shanked for fuck all reason
I seriously don't understand the reasoning even from a writers perspective

Don't brah, trust me. Yea Forums doesn't want it and I doubt the mods will either. They already have a sci-fi and fantasy general there anyway, only they don't talk about asoiaf much because it hasn't been updated in 8 years.
If Winds ever comes out just make a thread on Yea Forums about it thinly veiled as show discussion. Will probably get a ton more traction and better discussion here anyway. Simple as.

>Books: Edmure misses the shot at his father's funeral. His sympathetic warrior uncle, the Blackfish, assures him shit happens and Hoster even missed the shot when their own father died. Edmure misses because he is grieving for the father he loved
>Show: LOL! Look at this clown miss not one, not twice, but thrice! Ha! And look at le epic Blackfish show that dumbo who's boss! xD xP

one of the opportunities D&D missed was killing off major characters before the final season.

did Cersei, Jaime and Theon actually need to make it to season 8? nothing was accomplished. but D&D seem to have wanted to stick with the main cast, or been forced to by HBO.

Theon was set up for failure, he's a scumbag but his deep insecurities and his shit life situation make him relatable

The only good bit of the stupid Robb plot was seeing Chaplin naked except for a pair of leather boots.

Yes, it gives her a real motivation and an internal struggle.
All Dany wanted was to go "home" and be comfy and chill.
She never wanted to be a "mother of dragons breaker of chains sucker of horse cock".
But she does that shit to be comfy later.

YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE

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>Edmure makes a very compelling speech, a man humbled by the Lannisters, but who prevai-
>LOL SHIT DOWN UNCLE

Jaime should have died charging the dragon

don't forget
>because he couldn't hit a moving target with fire arrows (something incredibly difficult for anyone but an experienced bowman) he's now shit at everything ever, to the point that people understand on sight that he's a bumbling retard

There was a nice moment in AGoT where Robb carries Bran back to his bedroom, sits with him in the dark for a bit, begins sobbing, and Bran holds his hand to comfort him. Robb was 15 at that time when all is said and then.

Honestly, all three Daarios are equally bad. (book, show 1, show 2).
Daario in the show should have been more like that Chad captain that Daario number 1 (aka the Elf) kills in the show, but with a blue beard because that's what George decided and his vision is important.

>*ear-shattering fart noises*

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>Jaime should have died charging the dragon

I would have preferred that. Or Cersei killing him at the end of season 7. I fucking hate season 8 Jaime.

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Fuck off. Removing the coloured hair of the Free city folk was part of the whole "make everything brown grey and drab" philosophy of the show and it SUCKS

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>If I look back I am lost

Theon should have died facing off against Euron and refusing to run when Euron had his sister. Making him die against the Night King was lame because Theon had probably never heard of this nigga in his entire life before this moment and it's supposed to be impactful when he bumrushes him. The fight Theon had with the rando on dragonstone should've been Euron or he should've just been btfo by euron, he didn't need to be at winterfell

They should have just kept Jon Snow dead and let Stannis beat Ramsay desu.

I heard something about them intending to have more of a Dorne plot but cutting it because D&D used market research to make decisions about what character to focus on (which was also the reason for all the extra Bronn fanservice).

This. Reactionfags and late nightfags ruined it as much as dnd

they butchered every single fucking character in that scene
catelyn is supposed to be slowly losing her sanity - just looks a little annoyed that people are laughing
robb is supposed to be acting dignified (like a KING) at his granfather's funeral - giggles like a retard
jeyne (talisa lol) is supposed to be very humble and demure because of all the tension her position has caused - also giggles like a retard
and you summed up blackfish and edmure perfectly
Tower-of-Joy-tier butchery

He made a flamboyant character that enjoys life, colour, flaire, etc. We have flamboyant, excessive styles all throughout real history and Daario's authenticity is why Dany found him attractive, cause in ADwD she was forcing herself to be someone she wasn't with the whole pacifist Mhysa role she was taking on.

>Theon dying against Euron
Nah, Theon getting captured by Euron and getting Reek'd a second time, that would've been kino

Not even a Danyfag but this scene made me rock hard

youtube.com/watch?v=wXkWg7QxoE8

Even though 5 and 6 had its moments it still had it's beauty like this and Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards - which still had holes themselves (like that walker throwing Jon about like a ragdoll instead of killing him at Hardhome) - but the enjoyable moments were still plentiful.

Miss how beautiful this show used to be.
Sad.

There is that scene where she is completely naked on robbs bed. Fine body of work

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as much as I would've hated it, it would definitely have been prime material to get the audience to start turning on Dany because nobody gave a fuck about her burning the Tarlys

PLAY WITH HER ARSE

look at us now tully

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That's one of the stupidest changes in the show.
>introduce Night's King in the S2 lore videos with book backstory
>properly get a glimpse at him in S4, go so far as to identify him as Night's King in bonus material
>quickly redact that last part
>make him both SkyNet, Agent Smith and a Terminator in S6
>realize his backstory doesn't fit if he's the first WW
>start calling him Night King to differentiate him and Night's King
>don't just have Bran say that this isn't how Old Nan told it to him and be told that legends contain grains of truth but seldom are true themselves
It's a stupid move because it's transparently the writers trying to tell the viewers "We didn't make no mistakes, this is still according to GRRM's plan!"

magic, have sex

agree with this user
a book-accurate daario would look out of place, but at this point a book-accurate anything would look out of place in terms of costume design because of how dull and dark everything else is

People shit on flamboyant stuff in Essos in the books but they should take a look at pre revolutionary France or something. We've had flamboyant as fuck shit in real life too. It's the same as them shitting on George for calling a western kingdom the westerlands without realising this is how she is named in our world too.

Danyfags stopped being the enemy as soon as Aryafags became a thing

My dick when they were sucking the show's cock on twitter after Ep3 only for it to burn to ashes in the next 3 episodes.

>Land in the middle of England
>Is called the Midlands
Who wrote this shit?

Just give us an animated adaption or something. It's our only hope for a tip top adaption.

This. Wtf was the whole point of that plot?

Oh yeah, I forgot that scene also had one piece of baffling dialogue.
>She married his brother, an even more impressive specimen.
I guess they forgot the Chad-Virgin dynamic Ned was supposed to have with his brother. Not that it mattered because there's no internal dialogue anyway, but why change this in a throw-away line? Weird.

I love all the character actors this show had. it was fucking fantastic seeing Iain Glen.

the point of Daario in the books is to telegraph the fact that Dany is falling for an uberchad for purely hormonal reasons. GRRM makes the character's appearance ridiculous so we don't mistake him for a proper romantic interest.

also blue symbolizes death and there's the possibility he's a Faceless Man sent to get the dragons which would make his uberchadness even more satirical

>Stannis beats the Bolt-ons
>Roose steals Ramsay's body and flees
>The northern lords reveal Rickon and crown him
>Stannis, who has lost most of his men in the battle, received word that Mellisandre has burned his daughter because they thought he was dead.
>Stannis loses hope and gives up his claim and joined the Nights Watch to fight the others
>He becomes the 1000th lord commander of the nights watch
>Others assault the wall, Stannis valiently dies defending it
>He is raised from the dead and made the new Nights King
and who are you ..

Yep, that's it. Basically pic related when smug autists shit on George.

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No stoneheart to teach arya true hatred

>wait until after the war is over to rebel against a unified westeros
>get fucking curbstomped
>rejects robb's offer because "muh viking culture" only to make a similar proposal to tywin lannister
>said proposal was sent after they had already begun the rebellion so tywin had literally zero reason to accept his terms
>forgetting your hostage son that happens to be your heir

What the FUCK was his problem?

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This. Dnd just read reddit posts and did whatever the dumb redditors wanted to happen
>Cleganebowl get hyped lul
Fucking retarded

the way to write interesting characters is to give them contradictions. Dany wants multiple different incompatible things depending on the situation.

Renly would have made the best king

Brienne. collateral from them fucking up Jaime’s story.

i recently rewatched the first seasons, and i have to say, i was impressed with robb's actor's abilities, he was pretty damn good imo. everyone always shits on him and the rest of the stark kids, but i think he and arya were very good early on (him up till his death, arya till around s5)

>the whole plot culminated in just writing tertiary non-endgame characters like Edd and Beric out who didn't really need to be killed off in the first place, and ending the arcs of Theon and Melly C, whose arcs were already long over but dabid just forgot to kill them already

Diddled by based Euron

I loved Charles Dance's performance as Tywin, but man he made him TOO LIKEABLE. I loved every second of him, that's the thing, he's supposed to be a huge asshole scumbag in the books. Show Tywin I felt like crying when he died.

>who designed this, an alien?
every fucking time

I interpret it this way: . Daario is authentic, Dany is not being true to herself in that book.

>t. Loras

Magic

Remember when Night King was first revealed in S4E4 with his 12 colleagues and we all went crazy with theories? Good times.

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They probably did it cause they liked Dance. They often change characters on a whim if they like the actor, such as Cersei, Marge, Ellaria, and probably Tyrion.

i agree, they should have made tywin drowning wolves in the blackwater as well as fishing during that scene

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don't remind me, fuck D&D

They never quite conveyed how brilliantly insane they were in the books.

>I seriously don't understand the reasoning even from a writers perspective
Read the Behind The Scenes section of this article gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Bastard_letter
It explains why so much of S5 makes no sense. Writing clusterfuck due to last minute restructuring, basically.

They did the same with Bronn and Olenna
As soon as they got a whiff of people liking a character they jammed them into the story harder and drove it into the ground
literally zero artistic integrity

Now that we all agree that the season finale sucked, which episode/season we should consider the real finale before going to wait for the Fatman finishing the rest?
Other recommendation besides anything from S08 is acceptable.

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Robb throwing away his duty for Volantis booty

He does convey being a nasty person to his children well was my experience
Sure, not nearly as bad as the books, but foe example when Tyrion asks him when Tywin did something solely for the family over his own wishes. Tywin replies that he wanted to kill tyrion on the day tyrion was born, but that he couldn't kill kin and thus let tyrion live
Also great acting on Charles behalf again

>Remember when Night King was first revealed in S4E4 with his 12 colleagues and we all went crazy with theories? Good times.

HMMM ARE THESE 12 HIS LIEUTENANTS
IS THE NIGHT KING BRAN
WHAT IF THE NIGHT KING IS JUST THE GREAT OTHER'S CHAMPION

Stannis and Jon need each other. The direwolf and stag were allies since Durran Godsgrief and Bran the Builder.

I do agree that Stannis’ showdown with the Boltons on the lake should’ve happened. Not to mention the build-up like Stannis gathering the mountain clans and liberating Deepwood Motte.

Just leave it at Jon bleeding out and go on hiatus.

Cersei was completely useless the past two season.

>Those seething danyfags in the comments
>"Muh show ended here :("
Haha get fucked. The show ended long before that when they butchered a bunch of other characters and nobody except autists raised hell over them. Now they put the one fan fav through the ringer and every normie behaves like a stannisfag in season 5, except this time the danyfags have the public support and the media coverage. Fuck women, fuck feminists and fuck normies, i hate them the most.

>Tywin starts a war against Naath
>exterminates butterflies in his garden

>which episode/season we should consider the real finale

Season 4, episode 10

After that, just pretend the rest of the show doesn't exist.

Season 4, definitely.

>stands at a window and smirks for 2 and a half seasons
BRAVO EXCELLENT ACTING

Funny thing if Dinklage read the books he'd have probably been annoyed they did make him into what Tyrion became towards the end of ASoS and ADwD. That's the type of stuff an actor that cares about their role would love to have.
Anyone else get India vibes from Volantis? I guess it's cause of the elephants and the caste system with the nobles of Valyrian blood at the top.

Yes, grrm has admitted bronn was kept around because he has a high q rating with the audience.

nah m8. bookDaario is a parody of an alpha. he has lines about how he's been with thousands of women, has a gold tooth, a gold dyed mustache and naked women as the pommels of his swords. he's as over-the-top as GRRM could possibly make him.

he also advises Dany to have a Red Wedding with her Meereenese enemies, but is turned down flat, which points to him being used to showcase Dany's restraint, not her self-deception.

Sansha - 1:0 - Dany

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>Tywin goes to war against Dany
>In the catacombs of the Red Keep, casually shooting dragon skulls with the scorpion

Ha. I kept seeing normies go on about
"It was never the whole point of the show, the show is called Game of Thrones user, not the walking dead teehee" and now they got the "game of thrones" that they wanted...hahahaha fucking dumbfuck normalretards

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>Cersei was completely useless the past two season.

Cersei should have died season 5

if anything they made Tywin more unpleasant in the show. Likability and charisma aren't the same thing.

t h i s

I'm still surprised D&D never adapted Arianne. Beautiful exotic girl that gets naked, uses her body to her advantage, and can be used for the obnoxious feminist stuff they added to quell earlier criticism? I thought they would have jumped at the opportunity.

If Tywin hated Tyrion so much, why would he give him a similar name to himself and his father?

>Tywin goes to war against Dorne
>Next scene he's breaking spears in the sunshine

Which actors managed to brave the storm of Dabid post-Gurm writing the best? For me it's Nikolaj. He made Jaime based up until the end while so many other actors crumbled into shit

the episode in the first season shere cersei mentions a show only stillborn child only once and then never again

Final scenes of each season:
>Dany [Dragons' Birth]
>Sam [Walkers]
>Dany [Mhysa]
>Arya [A FUCKING BOAT]
>Jon [Death]
>Dany [To Westeros]
>Wall's Destruction
>Jon [To become a Wildling]

I rank the endings 6>7>1>3>5>2>8>4 tbqh

He hates his dad

Season 2
>Jaime Lannister killing his cousin to escape
>Talisa #occupywesteros
>Karstark praying to the father
>Robb marrying before the Seven
>Harrenhall
>entire Dany storyline
>no Renly's peach

Also
>Ros

My ankles hurt just from looking at those shoes

>the episode in the first season shere cersei mentions a show only stillborn child only once and then never again

Making Cersei into a "sympathetic" figure in the show turely gets my blood boiling.

she got half a million an episode for that shit.

D&D literally seem to have made decisions based on which characters they and the normie audience were interested in personally, with no longterm plan whatsoever.

Unironically kino

>Which actors managed to brave the storm of Dabid post-Gurm writing the best?

Stannis
Actor did the best he could with the stupid script that he said made no sense. Hates GOT and the fan base. Fucking BASED

Are Tommen and Myrcella 100% doomed in the books too thanks to the prophecy? How will they die if it does happen?
I am mostly curious because someone mentioned in the previous thread about how the plot could make more sense if Tommen end up being a 'champion' of the faith of the seven after executing Cersei for the sept explosion and would make the peasant & Jaime more pro-iron throne in S7 & 8.

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This. It works as an open ending that shows some of the characters setting out while also ending other storylines for good. In this way it's similar to the current ending.

Jon's death was by far the best ending although s2 was pure hype. S7 was a bit "really nigga?" despite the attempt to be shocking

>1v1 Duel with Night King
>this plays
youtube.com/watch?v=xggWJLgN-Es

Jeime should have died KILLING the dragon.
It's a much better way to get rid of it than having Euron no scope it from critical success roll stealth.
And Briene of Taft should have been there to so she can tell him he died keeping his oath and serving the realm.

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>Robb marrying before the Seven

Wonder how that played up North.

Great casting. I liked that actor

>Tywin is plotting against House Velaryon
>goes swimming and regularly comes back with the seahorse corpses

They also do the opposite; when they got the massive backlash towards Dorne, they cut Dorne entirely to the point of not making sense. See: Man 2 - The Prince of Dorne

>Catelyn releasing Jaime after hearing Theon just captured Winterfell instead of being given the news Bran and Rickon are dead and releasing Jaime in a state of terrible grief and losing her mind
The House of the Undying could have been an amazing bit of telly if adapted properly.

you think they're gonna meet in the books?

>Builds a massive scorpion to launch at the sun after declaring war on House Martell

No, Bronn should've died while saving Jaime, but Jaime still had to kill Cercei and finish his arc.
The second Dragon shoud've died while King's Landing surrendered, thus making Dany go crazy.

>Tywin going to war against House Manderly
>Straight-up noscopes Varys

oxygen deprivation via ritual drowning caused minor brain damage

Most of the actors & actresses are fine. The problem is despite their best performance the character choices still don't make sense or ridiculously silly. The Hound/Rory McCann is probably the closest I can say relatively un-ruined. But even then it's rather disappointing to see him rushing back to Kingslanding to die fighting Gregor after we just begin his redemption path in S6-7.

>Jaime still had to kill Cercei and finish his arc.

Reminder Dany being killed by Jon is Jaime killing Cersei in the books.

I think the first thing she'll do when she returns to westeros will be killing a few freys
I'm sure stoneheart will notice that

you gotta look at it from the perspective that DnD weren't going to completely fuck it up (even though in hindsight that is probably the presumption I should have had)

At Hardhome when the NK does his raising arms thing it was amazing cause everyone was like now Jon and the gang are REALLY fucked.
Such a shame they ended it so dreadfully.

>Tywin conspires with the Ironborn to raid House Redwyne
>Seen stepping on grapes

How will the bells scene go in the books? Joncon won't be on a dragon so how will he sperg out?

Quick rundown on last nights episode?
Don't feel like paying for this garbage lmao

Arya is still in Essos as of the last books. Unless she decides to left early like in the show or sent to Westeros for some assasination mission, I doubt it. But who knows, GRRM seems desperate to have Stoneheart in the show so perhaps she is going to play some sort of important role that leading her reuniting with one if not all her kids.

Who is alive in the show and dead in the books? Or, was alive at the start of S8?

LSH is going to orchestrate a Red Wedding of Devan Lannister as revenge.
Arya will defect from the Faceless Men with the Mummers that will be entertainment at the wedding. They will have a target on her back.
>The Freys do not help their allies and only gather food for themselves. Daven does not like the Freys, but he intends to wed one, as he knows what happened to Robb Stark in the Red Wedding.[4]
She will meet LSH and be revolted, and vow to go home.

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The prologue will feature Jeyne, Jaime, Brienne, Stoneheart, BwB, etc. will probably move on the Freys and Arya still needs to wrap up some training in Braavos and leave, and the books do not have fast travel like the show. It would not surprise me if Arya doesn't take care of the Freys.

D&D have a hardon for the actress who played Ellaria, so they probably got their fix through her, plus she’d be too old to play Arienne and the Dorne plot was a total flop.

Jon Snow

>How will the bells scene go in the books?

It won't happen in the books, at least not Dany.

Lord Tywin, I would like to invite you to my plot

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Beric Dondarrion (the fire sword dude with the sexy voice)

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>The prologue will feature Jeyne, Jaime, Brienne, Stoneheart, BwB, etc.
gods I can't fucking wait lads
why is the fat fuck so LAZY

I think they were literally allergic to complexity. if you introduce Arianne you have to introduce Aegon, which means you have a whole new "side" to deal with at the start of season 7, when all they wanted to do was nerf Dany, get the WW through the wall and collect everyone at Winterfell for 2 episodes of nothing then a shitty underlit climax.

>Tywin plots against House Greyjoy
>Casually eating calamari

Dorne stuff is some of the most incompetently adapted stuff I've ever seen.

Even in ACOK the House of the Undying is the only interesting part of Dany's storyline and that's the one thing they cut short, while the shit they came up with themselves was awful. Should have been a warning back then.

Is Dany going to go east in the books or have I just been watching too much Ideas of Ice and Fire?

He did do a heavy rewrite around 2015 to be fair. But it seems likely it's coming soon based on what those westeros.org guys that wrote WoIaF said recently and George joking he should be locked in a cabin if it's not done by 2020.

It's going to be incredible

Why did Jon not reveal his true parentage until after the war ended? Also how the fuck is he even sure Sam or Bran are correct? This septon could just be lying.

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Not the characters but the actors. They wrote their shit actors first, characters second which shows they kinda hate Nik and Kit

It occurs to me that if they adapted Aegon and kept him as The Ghost no one talks about but is hyped up and up and up, Dany going mad enough to kill him when she finally meets him and he tries to force her to marry him, and then madder when she finds out Jon is the true heir would've made more sense.

>Tywin decides he's had enough of the Boltons
>Puts the skin back on corpses

Based Tywin

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>tfw twow is taking so long because dany took you must go east to go west too literally and is now travelling to westeros by heading around the entire other side of the world

She outlived her plot useability after season 5 episode 10. They have no book info as to what happens after the walk of shame so they came up with their own fanfic plot of blowing up the sept. After that she just goes downhill even more and becomes...just boring.

Felt bad Dillane had to deal with idiocy. Even Barristan’s actor was disrespected by D&D when he voiced complaints about his character still being alive.

Season one's finale was brilliant. Seeing Dany rise from the ashes with three dragons gave me hope that Ned Stark's death would be avenged

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Maybe Littlefinger thought Brandon was just a swole pompous retard, and Ned was at least strong and sort of smart.
Brandon was probably too brutish for Catelyn, so maybe that's what he could have been getting at.

Never got the Heady appeal personally. Even before the dumb shit where she became Queen and spends all her time looking smug whilst drinking some wine I thought the 'emotional' moments were quite cringey and came off as insincere and tryhard.

I suspect FAegon will take KL with ease and will be supported by population. That will be Dany's large problem, that she arrives in Westeros and another "Targ", the son of her beloved brother, has already taken the throne. No way Cersei is ever becoming Queen. I have no idea where her story will go, but she will not be crowned queen of the Seven Kingdoms after blowing up the Vatican.

I think "to go west you must go east" means she'll go back to Qarth to ask the masked woman for advice, given that she's blatantly been getting telepathic messages from her for a while now.

>Tywin has to go against House Osgrey
>freezes

Cringe. Yea Forums is unironically the best place for book discussion btw. The ASoIaF forums are too autistic and reddit too fucking wet and obsessed with their fucking karma

Boring, yes that the right word for it. But in their eyes Lena can do no wrong so...

On interviews as well. Fucking unprofessional.

Hardhome was far more terrifying than actual battle against the Wights and Others. It was a horror movie; something that made up for not depicting the Battle at the Fist of the First Men.

so these are the people who laughed at pycelle farting in that small council meeting

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>Felt bad Dillane had to deal with idiocy.
The perfect Stannis

>Pod stays the same
Kek

Who is the better commander/tactician between Tywin, Roose and Stannis?

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For what it was it wasn't too bad, though I'm impressed how George conveyed how scary it was based purely on a letter Pyke wrote to Jon. The whole dead things in the woods, dead things in the water letter.
>Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins
Loved that bit too.

I want her to crush my testicles under her heels while shouting vulgarities at me.

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You guys are dumb, it means she's going to die.
>To go West you must go East
Means Drogon is going to carry her off East after killing her so she has to go East in order to have gone west.

what was the north's export tax on wood?

I personally think Dany in the books is more likely to react to discovering that she has surviving male relatives by spreading her legs instantly, but then I'm not an elite HBO showrunner who thought Emilila Clarke playing hitler was a good twist.

Not sure what the hell Roose ever did of note if we're talking about the books. But Tarly gets hyped up. Bobby B has some feats too.

yeah I never got it either. all she could do was smear elegantly. the only other actor she had actual chemistry with was Tywin

Sexiest thing about Cersei in that entire show was the naked walk of shame, and it was a body double. Wish we had the raw footage of van Cleave doing the walk so I can wank to that with no weird Heady face CGI'd on to it.

tommen 100% dead, Myrcela 80% chance of death

When did it become cool for /got/ to hate the North?

Her crying and death scene were so bad my family was laughing at it

Tywin is the best politician. Stannis the best commander. Roose is average at both but pretty retarded for keeping ramsay around

stannis is a bit shit to be honest and Jon completely styled all over him with his big tactics brain
Tywin is the best out of these

reminder that when Dany wants to fuck her nephew that means she's mad but Cersei and Jaime fucking is forbidden love, so sad etc.

Unfortunately FAegon is going to marry Arianne.

>Tywin, Roose and Stannis
>Tywin got his shit kicked in by Robb and waited for the Mad King to open the door
>Roose betrayed his allies constantly, never had to "win" a battle
>Stannis never won a battle except through magic or against wildlings with a clearly superior force
Robb would beat them all

We don't know a lot of Roose's command ability, apart from losing that battle against Tywin.
Tywin was always a capable general but never really struck me as a genius.
Bookwise, Stannis and Randyll Tarly are the best generals in Westeros, followed by Tywin.

The Faith knows Tommen is a bastard born of incest. The moment Aegon gains enough ground in Westeros they are going to declare for him.

>Jon, you must give me your Targaryen essence
>The seed is strong, Jon

>Jorah and Quaithe keep mentioning Asshai
>hurrr we won't see Asshai in the books
fuck you Gurm

>Tywin comes back to life and starts fighting against King Bran
>Casually raping Sansa (who gets captured as a Prisoner) while talking to lords

Connington says Aegon needs to wait until Dany marries him
>Marrying Arianne
She's his cousin, Doran can wait a generation

I shabbose it started to show when the actors clearly stopped giving a fuck in S2 or S3

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According to the shitty Telltale game they didn't export Ironwood to anyone but the crown

warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/a-complete-analysis-of-stannis-baratheon-as-a-military-commander/

Bronze Yohn Royce is up there too.

I wonder how Barristan leads the defense of Meereen?

imagine if Euron and WW attacked the good guys simultaneously

OMG! U judon't get it! The accent is meant to show he's getting more evil and isn't bad acting! Le epic symbolism xD

>we won't see Asshai in the books
Who is supposed to be our PoV there?
Going there would just stall their progress even more

>Tywin is the best politician.
"Hey Twyin"
>yeah
"You know that literally everyone in the Seven Kingdoms hates your house because of your actions and only you personally still being alive is what keeps vengeance at bay, right?"
>muh lions we dont care about opinions sheep durr
"Well you should since you're getting old and this will be a pressing issue for your family's future when you're gone"
"Especially since Casterly Rock is secretly bankrupt"
>hmhmhm yes family legacy hurr yup
"So who will be around to steer House Lannister through the extremely difficult waters you've churned up for it. Who is your heir?"
>uuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh jaime not wait
>ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

10/10 statesman

I know Yea Forums loves him because he's a meme but this dude is unironically the worst cast character in the show

Book Aegon should sit on the throne desu.

I still feel it's going to happen, nevermind what Connington's plans are. Especially once word reaches Dorne how Quentyn was rejected by Dany and killed by her dragons. Dorne is going to be fully on Aegon's site.

Tywin having hobbies is still the weirdest thing. You always see him plotting and working and then the nigga is just off fishing for the day. Should have done it more, maybe if he took Jamie fishing he wouldnt have had all that time to fuck his sister.

Why did Cersei not take Moat Cailin when the North was busy with the white walkers?

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youtube.com/watch?v=x56wFsJTb78

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Based on the sample chapters, pretty competently. He's stirring up shit on the front lines not to win but to cause as much chaos as possible so the Unsullied can form a shield wall, march, and sweep over the camp.

It's Baelor now. Sean Bean is a godly actor desu

>completely rekt the greyjoys at their own game when Balon had his temper tantrum
Stannis was a damn good naval commander.

Expectation stats: Subdingdonged

But does the Night King have a Finger in his Bum?

Funny little thing in the books too where Tyrions mentioned how he had his barber shave his head bald after his hairline receding. Fucking Tywin looking in a mirror one day going 'OH NO NO NO NO NO' at his Chadness fading.

>1
Best one by far. Dany's fire resurrection is still one of the most spectacular scene in the entire story. Literally reborn from fire like a phoenix (well dragon...)
>2
Easily the most horrifying. The slow pan as you see thousands upon thousands of living corpse marching towards the fist of the first men. It's when you realize these white walkers are not messing around and a serious fucking business.
>3
It's pretty so-so, tbqh. But I do like the music and Dany's rise to be savior is all nice but at the same time it's kind of fall flat after we still haven't got over from the Red Wedding.
>4
I like the soundtrack. Same problem with S3, it's just overshadowed by a more superior scene (Tyrion & Tywin final conflict). I'd rather put the final scene of episode 4 (the one with the Night King) over here.
>5
Our hero is fucking dead. I mean it's GoT, but the season is way too bleak IMO. Stannis burns his own child, Myrcella dies, Arya lost her vision, and now Jon died? I understand why a lot of my friends dropped the show here (even though I know no way they will left Jon dying for good)
>6
We finally get to the exciting part of Dany's story. No more boring Meerenese scene, she is going to fuck up Cersei and possibly even the white walkers.
>7
Cool but ultimately feels empty. Night King finally breaking the wall is amazing, the soundtrack is amazing, but how he gets to do it definitely is pretty questionable if we remember the previous episodes. Still not that bad.
>8
Haven't watch. Never will probably. But I did watch that 'Jon Hughes' edit, which is pretty good tbqh.

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Dany, she has to pass beneath the shadow anyway
past Melly
past Euron
completely new character

Cersei kinda forgot

The Dorne arc was for his sex fetishism and also possibly for feminism

wait i thought only the raven could warg

Speaking of that, I think that will be the end of the Tyrells.

I suspect most of the Arianne/Aegon stuff is going to end up being more about making other twists surprising when something no one has foreseen happens. GRRM is actually running low on cameras around KL and needs to have people to kill off.

for one thing, if any of Dany's dragons get stolen she's likely to be the last person riding a dragon to arrive in Westeros at all, and there need to be POV characters to witness what ends up happening as a result.

House Lannister hasn't even opened up their actual gold vaults in the books.

>tommen 100% dead, Myrcela 80% chance of death
Wait? Why do you think Myrcella still stood a chance?

Why was the stormlands effectively some kind of anarchist land with nobody running it till season 8?

Why was nobody left alive in the Reach according to Davos in season 8?

Why did Dorne not contribute any soldiers to fight?

What happened to Castly Rock after the unsullied took it?

What was going on in the Westerlands or Riverlands?

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>how Quentyn was rejected by Dany and killed by her dragons. Dorne is going to be fully on Aegon's site.
That makes Aegon Dorans only choice, rendering a marriage match unlikely.

Jon and Arya don't do it voluntarily (yet anyway), they have dreams as the wolves

>Who is your heir?
Kevan and Lancel you fools

Asshai being a flashback in a Melly chapter would be kino.

I think barry is going to get eaten by a dragon. it would be a kino ending for his character.

He will. Until Dany comes in and melts him and it alike

>I suspect most of the Arianne/Aegon stuff is going to end up being more about making other twists surprising when something no one has foreseen happens.

I don't know. A second Dance of Dragons has been a planned plot point since forever as far as we know.

Kevan is too old and Lancel isn't fit to be heir of anything.

The books have a branch family in Lannisport and the show for a while have those guys too. But as of S7, apparently the writers forgot about them or they all die off screen to Robb/Euron/Daenerys. Or maybe they are still there, but just being completely irrelevant.

Its been a long time since I've read the books, but weren't there talks of her body double? Then again Darkstar could've poisoned his blade b4 he sliced her ear off

that doesn't mean Targaryens are going to be riding all the dragons.

>Lancel
GODS WHAT A STUPID NAME

>Lancel
GODS

>Why did Cersei not take Moat Cailin when the North was busy with the white walkers?

>Why was the stormlands effectively some kind of anarchist land with nobody running it till season 8?

>Why was nobody left alive in the Reach according to Davos in season 8?

>Why did Dorne not contribute any soldiers to fight?

>What happened to Castly Rock after the unsullied took it?

>What was going on in the Westerlands or Riverlands?

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I imagine Arianne is going to seduce Aegon. He's not going to wait for Dany, especially since she might be stuck in Essos for quite some time.

The Vale didn't do shit either

I do not recognize your authority to dictate what is and is not a stupid name.

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Oh, yeah, I don't think Aegon is ever going to ride a dragon.

>Why was the stormlands effectively some kind of anarchist land with nobody running it till season 8?
We never even see the Stormlands again since Season 2 (the scene with Renly)
>Why was nobody left alive in the Reach according to Davos in season 8?
Looks like Jaime, Bronn and Lord Tarly decide that genocide is the best solution to protect Cersei's regime. That or Dany burns them all after she is done nuking KL.
>Why did Dorne not contribute any soldiers to fight?
They are still salty with Doran's death and how the sand snakes (the killers) are joining Dany. So they probably just want to wait it out and see who is going to win.
>What happened to Castly Rock after the unsullied took it?
Euron retook it for Cersei. Most likely guarded by some Lannister cousin/Men at arms right now.
>What was going on in the Westerlands or Riverlands?
Riverlands are fucked as usual. Westerlands probably rejoice with the death of Cersei but realize they are fucked now that a worse queen taking over and they rejoice again after she too die.

Why did Robert hate Stannis? Even as children he hated him.

They are very different

>I imagine Arianne is going to seduce Aegon.
He deserves better.
His best match would be Sansa as a ploy to get the Knights of the Vale

How did he feel knowing his son turn into a bloody fanatic?

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I don't think they hated each other, but they're very incompatible

He shit talked about his beloved hawk pet (in the books) at least. In the show he barely talked about Robert.

But that doesnt excuse extremely petty shit like crediting Ned for winning the siege of Storm's End and ignoring his brother.

Robert was a very polarizing guy

It's a damn shame we never got any scenes between the Baratheon bros, they'd naturally butt heads, kinda like their house symbol

not happy I'm sure, I think he isn't a bitter autist like Tywin and probably loves his family

Reminder that the Faith Militant was there to clean up the corruption and indecency of King's Landing, all the way up to the highest highborn circles, and for that they should be thanked.

Punished Lancel is best Lancel

We got that scene with Renly in S2. But since the show has a no flashback policy except for S5, that's the only one we ever get.

holy shit that hairline

I don't entirely bought the High Sparrow's motivation even until the end of season 6. It seems like the guy is actually aiming to made himself king and install a theocracy rather than genuinely helping the small folks. Probably he is different in the books, but in the show he just feel like another tyrant but slightly more polite.

I still prefer the funny useless Lancel from S1-2. Religious fanatic Lancel is just an asshole.

High Sparrow barely even makes sense in the show because the war has no tangible visible impact up to that point except for that one time Robb first meets the Volantene slut

The high sparrow's motivation for installing the faith militant was his experience walking around the wartorn riverlands and westerlands as a humble septon, and realizing how bullshit it all is. He's in maximum Punished mode.

He sort of coming out of nowhere, which does make sense since we mostly just follow the lords and nobles and never see the perspective of the plebs. I think it would be good if they actually touch a bit more of that aftermath of war and the unrest among the peasants and show how the Sparrows actually help these peoples despite their fanaticism.

FETCH THE THREAD STRETCHER

NEW THREAD PISS

I-It's reached the bump limit, your grace

SEVEN HELLS user, THE THREAD MUST DIE

IS THAT WHAT BUMP LIMIT MEANS?

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Stannis is a great commander in the books and Tywin is stated to be a mediocre one. Roose is never really given a clear level of skill, but considering what we see in TWoW I think it's safe to say he's not great. Stannis' hour of glory will come in the books.

when the story shifted focus from mostly westeros to essos

According to George Robert giving Stannis Dragonstone instead of Storm's End wasn't meant to be a slight, so Robert dind't exactly hate him.