Have video games surpassed cinema as an artform? Modern games give you an experience (visuals, spectacle, narrative, sound, etc.) on par with or superior to modern films, and they're longer and interactive.
Have video games surpassed cinema as an artform? Modern games give you an experience (visuals, spectacle, narrative...
Liam Thomas
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Kayden Gonzalez
no
Lincoln King
yes
Justin Cox
you can’t boss me around
Leo Lee
maybe
Lincoln Stewart
They're different artforms and this isn't a zero sum game.
Asher Gutierrez
maybe
Oliver Fisher
I dunno know
Juan Evans
no because games havn't reached the balance of art house and commercial like films reached decades ago.
Early games where often mostly made for the artistic and experimental desire and the money came second because of the budgetary and financial requirements. Now we see a burst of commercial requirements due to the fact that up to date and boundary breaking games require huge teams of well paid staff and companies, meaning they have to play it moderately safe, ensuring a return, hence the past 10 years being a surge of safe games following formulas and trends that sell well.
Now we are entering an age of gaming where you get the big standard releases of high quality but un-innovative games made to keep the various companies and publishers financially stable while artistic and experiential people try to get something different into the products, while independent and small companies/teams produce something good and sometimes bad products.
Games have not surpassed cinema because Cinema has had its cycle of artistic vs commercial multiple times through multiple decades. Games are just reaching this tipping point as a relatively new form of media/art. Films have been around for over 200 years and as a form, Games are only (generously) 47~ years.
Samuel Reyes
Video games will never be truly art on the same level because of the interactive part specifically.
Interaction diminishes the artistic value immensely because with film, or a book, or a painting you get an exact fixed unchangeable artistic expression delivered to you just like it is intended, while with games whatever other interactive element is introduced only diminishes the original artistic intention and focuses on the viewer/player. Like said, the more a game is considered "art" it has less interactivity in it.
Video games will forever remain merely an entertainment gimmick and nothing more
Mason Adams
yes
Grayson Adams
Art and commerce aren't mutually exclusive, and art isn't just about some artsy fartsy arthouse thinkpieces.
Deus Ex is very interactive.
Eli Young
Game industry surpassed movie industry long ago.
Liam James
What is art, really?
William Parker
And Deus Ex can't be compared to any legitimately great film in any way at all.
Michael Nguyen
Not capeshit.
Brayden Ortiz
Deus Ex isn't a film. Video games aren't films.
Levi Baker
Actually a good post on this board
Landon Hall
>it's longer so it's better!
Only absolute plot point mental midgets think this is an argument.
>b-but it's interactive too!
You are not a better writer than an actual writer. You are not a better camera operator than an actual camera operator. You are not a better editor than an actual editor.
Owen Gutierrez
wtf is the logic here, just because one has gone through commercialism longer it's better? that means cave paintings are the superior artform right, because they were never commercialized
Xavier Gonzalez
Only if you think cinema refers only to Hollywood.
Aaron Morris
>Art and commerce aren't mutually exclusive, and art isn't just about some artsy fartsy arthouse thinkpieces.
of course but what I am trying to say is the balance that those two things strike.
The teams of talented and well meaning people are trying to make the next Call of Duty and they are trying to artistically make another great game, but the weight of commercial and financial requirements of such a game weigh down on the management and working members, causing them to have to deal with deadlines and design requirements.
Meanwhile. some tiny indie dev working them asses off at a low quality but heart felt game could produce the next great game. Apocalypse Now wasn't financially viable on paper and especially not in practice but its still regarded as a great piece of cinema and art. Regardless of what you personally think of Apocalypse NoApocalyspe Noww, I think
(and I think you would agree) it would be better that people attempt to make something alone those lines than transformers 8. then again you have the fact that the transformers 8 might help keep the studio/company afloat to produce the next Apocalypse Now. It is a weird business, film & games where the big generic dumb dumb media funds the next great piece of art.
Jackson Morgan
>Well... Done... Sekiro...
SeKINO
Wyatt Cook
Visual/painting art is one of the oldest, it has refined over the thousands of years into this mythical and deep artform.
Cinema has been around for over 200 years and has had many great pieces.
Video Games/interactive media have been around for less than 50 years. We are in the literal infancy of the form.
Michael Sanders
This
Henry Jenkins
>fortnite is art
zoomers pls
Zachary Rogers
Anything man-made is art.
Nathaniel Hughes
Your post is garbage, not art.
Bentley Lopez
Who said gargabe cant be art?
Brody Moore
Art snobs, especially the ones who browse this board.
Transformers is just as artistic as Blade Runner
Jeremiah Price
>Kentucky saddler because it's black
That's pitiful
Mason Hughes
WHERE IS THE PC VERSION ALREADY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Dominic Gomez
It's already politically correct.
Christopher Kelly
videogames are virtual toys, not art
Cameron Moore
Two different art forms, but video games fails quit hard trying to imitate movies, they are there weakest point.
Playing RDR 2 right now, it is good, but the balance between the game and cinematic is shit, the gameplay is pulled down trying to be more cinematic.
Same thing for God of War, the story is shit and you are forced to watch it in "one take".
I am not saying video games is only about gameplay, but when the story is in your face I want it to be fucking good, most stories are from book or movies and simply retold, but instead of being 2-3h long it's 20+ fucking hours long. Video games should simply be their own things and stop copying movies, go be a movie director instead (oh wait, God of War would have been total shit as a movie)
Tyler Carter
nope
and im literally making my own game and im finna move into film soon because its WAY EASIER
Lucas Thomas
They aren't toys, and they are art.
Isaac Cook
>typing all this shit out just to admit you don't know what a good story is and refuse to have one in a videogame because you want to beep boop shoot some bad guiz
Nathan Cox
>but instead of being 2-3h long it's 20+ fucking hours long
what about tv shows?
Mason Gonzalez
Is there a single game with a narrative on par with even the most mundane of normie flicks though?
Oliver Ross
how are video games trying to imitate movies? they're still interactive experiences, something films are only very recently starting to explore.
>more cutscenes = just like a moobie lol XD
Mason Mitchell
Nice cope, manchild.
Alexander Wilson
Garbage plots, terrible dialogue, endless cliches, hammy voice acting, characters that mean nothing. Only area they compete is in soundtracks because the composers have way more freedom in video games.
Adrian Bailey
i dont know how many times i forgot to set a weapon loadout when i got off my horse. that shit is so fucking annoying i hate them for making that a game mechanic
Matthew Bell
Deus Ex was already mentioned.
There was no cope, and manchildren don't exist.
Jackson King
not until animations improve tenfold. Even cutting edge AAA games have completely atrocious animations, characters gliding on rough surfaces, lips out of sync, having no weight, no momentum, etc.
It's hard to get immersed in a story when some dude in the background is sperging out
John Sanders
Yes? Look at the fucking lore in something like Halo or Starcraft. You can't establish that kind of universe in a single two hour film.
Carter Bell
games are for children
Nathaniel Carter
Jose Cooper
>Garbage plots, terrible dialogue, endless cliches, hammy voice acting, characters that mean nothing.
You could say the same about movies.
Video games aren't for children.
Daniel Hill
most high quality, story driven games are on par with normie flicks, the only difference is the normie flicks are constrained by time and episode length. the quality of art and writing quality is basically the same as anything seen on TV. we are just yet to see the actual top brow, artist quality writing seen in film and a few TV being translated into a game.
Chase Jones
Deus Ex
Planescape: Torment
KotOR2
Joseph Russell
stale memes are not arguments
Chase Lopez
No. There are some games that are better than some movies to be sure but gaming at it's best isn't yet as good as film is at its best.
David Perry
Why is it only one poster making this these threads?
Sebastian Lopez
Sort of, but not really. In order of experience based on entertainment and value for money it goes
>Books
>Film
>VG
Books you pay for once, get no ads, and everything is tied up at the end.
Films you pay for once, get plenty of product placement depending on what it is, everything is generally tied up at the end, but let's not pretend more than one film hasn't been released where, to see what happens "really" in the end, you need to watch the next installment.
VG you pay for once (generally several times the cost of a book or film), you get most of the story, but if you want the whole thing then you have to pay for the (((DLC))) which is generally more than the VG was. And that's assuming the game has a storyline and isn't just "dude play online, buy our (((packs))) and make your OWN storyline up with your online buddies!" because then there is no storyline. Even when they're is it's more of an interactive movie, but I'm being very loose with "interactive". Pressing F to pay respects and then sitting through a 45 minute long cutscene is more or less the same thing as "are you still watching this show?" prompts that pop up when you've been watching something for a while, except it's happening every 20-40 minutes instead, which is actually more of an annoyance.
So in one way you're completely right, except where it's the worst of the three and video games are not fucking "art". Other than that, you're absolutely spot on.
Christian Rivera
good animations have nothing to do with telling kino
some of the BEST kino stories of all times were just monologues with no camera movement
Julian Thomas
what's funny is that this is true but
in order to MAKE THOSE video games is the hardest on the skill list
Luis King
Zoomer, pls keep your fuckwit (((definitions))) to yourself. Next you'll be telling me that there are as many genders as you want there to be because "gender is manmade, but sex isn't".
Joseph Davis
OP said modern games give you an experience comparable to movies, including visuals. This is not even close to being true. FF7 might have been a great story, but it's not a visual one
Luis Hernandez
Video games are art.
Daniel Gonzalez
fuck ff7
parasite eve is extreme kino and has some really good camera shots
Brayden Evans
>PS4 version
You just ruined whatever chance you had at making a point.
Xavier Torres
>fuck ff7
Watch your damn mouth.
Jacob Richardson
what is your definition of art, smooth-brain?
Thomas Robinson
not even the best RPG on playstation
Xavier Brown
So is capeshit. Capeshit is literally made for children.
Tyler White
Based. Very Based
Noah Sullivan
>Story needlessly stretched to last like 80 hours
Wow, so deep. So powerful. Truly we have peaked as a species
Adrian Turner
>t. Underage newfags
Very unbased and cringepilled
Christopher Bennett
The only good singleplayer vidya are the ones who arent pretentious enough to think they can craft a good story.
Nolan Turner
a long time ago
Bentley Long
Also NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer
Luis Brown
>Cinema has been around for over 200
American Education everyone
Nolan Fisher
Almost.
Ryan Bell
If games were really art, what would you put in the video game Criterion Collection?
Asher Walker
>muh deus ex
Its good and all, but its X-files tier. If that's the videogame equivalent of the Godfather, that's pretty pathetic.
Jordan Bailey
>tfw PE 1 and 2 were the best games Squeenix-Goya have ever written, and even managed to subvert your expectations
>tfw The Third Birthday
William Anderson
Third birthday was fire as fuck famalam
Landon Russell
>Deus Ex isn't a paragon of writing and story because it's a sci-fi spy thriller
Daily reminder that genre doesn't automatically correlate to writing quality.
Andrew Long
>quality writing
They literally took a list of all the hip conspiracies of the time and put them in a blender, even Spector admits that the fact it all works is pure serendipity.