Star Wars

She manages to beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber battle, despite never wielding a lightsaber before. Luke had to train extensively with a lightsaber (e.g. when he's fighting the training droid on the Millennium Falcon). And when he finally faces Vader in a lightsaber battle in Empire, he loses, because he is still not ready yet.

Also, with Luke using the force to make that shot on the Death Star, he has been advised and mentored by Obi-Wan on the ways of the force, and how he can harness it if he really tries. Does Rey have that? Not that I remember. She just seems to be able to do anything with no explanation whatsoever.

She did a better job acting in Rian's film, both Rey and Kylo were interesting. Luke if we are being honest is a standard hero and doesn't have too much personality, sure he has some more than Rey. But for Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back Luke is like Rey in that she is discovering things as her adventure goes on.
ROTJ will have Rey being more assertive and Luke like in ROTJ
But if I'm being honest I liked TLJ and despite thinking her character was a boring blank slate in TFA I thought TLJ made it better. With Kylo as well.

Kylo is basically going into Episode III Anakin territory now. I wonder if anyone will lose their arms in a fight. That's why all of this is out of place nobody has lost a hand or arm yet. I wish Rey or Kylo would, but I doubt the former.

Kylo was wounded and already fought the nigger who he BTFO, Rey force pulled the lightsaber out of snow. She was clearly a hidden high level jedi apprentice at that point.

Rey basically loses when kylo and her mop up the throne room. She saw a vision of her turning him and thought that was it, but she got played and Kylo instead tries to turn her, and ends up breaking her lightsaber.

>N-no, but O-obi Wan says "use the force Luke" right before he does it s-so it's not the same as
Lmfao. Luke doesn't do any extensive training at all before he performs that immense feat. If it's somehow not ridiculous for someone to blow up the Empire's most valuable asset in a suicide mission which claims the life of trained military pilots, it's not ridiculous for Rey to do any of the (much less impressive and difficult) things she does.

Why does everyone misuse the term Mary Sue? Mary Sues have to be self-insert characters by the writer, which really makes no sense in the context of a film like this. Like, use the term Neo for ridiculously OP characters of something.

Also Rey was trained in fighting with melee weapons against muggers so she wasn't a total babe in the woods there. She basically used survival instincts to fend him off and then channeled the force to beat Kylo after he tells her that she needs a teacher and someone to teach her the ways of the force.
Eventually she kind of uses a little dark side energy to finish beating Kylo

You will never convince these little incels, they probably don't understand film and that everything is about emotion and not plot

Laziness

The character is undeveloped and boring man

I don’t think “ridiculous” is the relevant condition. All of this shit is ridiculous. What matters is how underwhelming the build up or lack there of has been. No anticipation, no anxiety, and thus no payoff when the feat is accomplished. Boring

>The character is undeveloped and boring man
Less underdeveloped and boring than literally every character in those worthless shitty marvel movies that males love and praise if I'm being honest senpai
More than that john wick tier shit and all the garbage movies zoomers like

>everyone is about emotion
Yeah I agree, but the character is still poorly written see Idgaf about reconciling it within the plot I just want a good ride but they couldn’t even do that bc these writers are so lazy

Rian's dialogue is on point just like Lucas' in the PT

Either you didn't read the chain, or you're arguing that mary sue characters are characters that you don't personally like who do things which are impressive
Doesn't really matter which - you're wrong

>Luke if we are being honest is a standard hero and doesn't have too much personality
I would argue he has more personality than Rey. He certainly has a much more believable and developed character arc than Rey.

Rey's this very attractive girl, who is an orphan, and who is somehow good at all this techie shit... yeah that's not believable. In the reality of the Star Wars universe, she probably would have been captured and turned into a sex slave or something.

Yeah I guess the Rey / Kylo connection was interesting in TLJ, but it doesn't explain why Rey is inexplicably talented in everything for no discernible reason.

ime women got more invested in marvel movie leads, esp cap and stark, than men did lol. and why not shit is like porn for them

Rey is just unbelievable cringy, I couldn't take her seriously in the first movie and thank God I skipped the second one.

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Read the following sentence after the one you quoted, I said Luke has more than her but he isn't any great shakes.
She's talented because she was created by the force likely by Palpatine in an Anakin 2.0 way
or she's actually an older Skywalker

>Luke was an interesting character
Yeah, I really connected with the participant of the hero's journey #883257983. He had soul. What a unique character development arc. And such a brilliant performance by now acclaimed actor Mark Hamilton. Hamburg really proved himself as a likeable and proficient actor by playing Luke. I love Mark Hamoll.

>more than men did lol
Not true lol, because men are the only ones who hype those trash movies and continually want more and more when none have been good

Idgaf about usage of the term, which is why I didn’t mention it at all, I just don’t see why you feel the need to defend a character that provides such an unrewarding experience

>Why did Disney make a Mary Sue
Because women can't write

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>Idgaf about the context of the argument being made I just want to butt in with irrelevant asides and tangential comments
Lmao ok dude power to you

The viewership is more evenly split than most franchises. Like 44% of men watched them vs 40% of women. It’s as normie as normie gets. It has to appeal to both men and women. The online fandom for the movies alone skews F, but that’s not really an indication of anything but the pre-existing userbase of Twitter and Tumblr.

>She was clearly a hidden high level jedi apprentice at that point.
Who is her Jedi master then? The only Jedi she has to teach her is Luke in TLJ, which is after she beats Kylo, isn't it?

Obi-Wan has introduced him to the force and he did the lightsaber training on the Millennium Falcon, where Obi-Wan taught Luke to trust in the force, rather than his senses:

youtube.com/watch?v=h19yG1DXI2o

And this is long before Luke will then finally get into a lightsaber battle with Vader, and when he finally does in Empire, he loses.

As for Luke's pilot skills, he bulls-eyed womp rats in his T-16. Did Rey fly planes before TFA?

But yeah, on the lightsaber thing, Rey somehow beats Kylo despite having no training in the force and no training in lightsaber use. It's dumb as fuck.

>Mary Sues have to be self-insert characters by the writer, which really makes no sense in the context of a film like this
It makes sense when the producer is Kathleen Kennedy and Rey is her self-insert.

Although also the property of being a self-insert is not essential to being a Mary Sue according to Wikipedia.

Ad hominem isn't an argument.

You have been entirely BTFO. We both know this. I don't mind that you're still trying to maintain your point, I'd expect nothing less, but I just want you to know that I know, and I know you know. Ok, thanks :^)

>her entire conflict is about her wanting her parents to be special and still out there which Rian tore down as he should have.
Fuck off Rian. That absolutely wasn't her issue in TFA. She never cared who her parents were or if they were special. She just wanted them to come back and be with her. Rian invented this thing about her caring about her parents being special. He did this to directly shit on the fanbase who theorized who her parents were.

Luke (son of Anakin, considered one of the most powerful individuals in the force of all time) has mentors throughout IV and V - first Obi-Wan (and to some extent Han), and then in V he has Yoda.

So with Luke, someone of good Jedi blood as it were, he doesn't even know he can use the force, at all, until he is trained in it. And it takes more training still to become competent with a lightsaber.

Rey doesn't need any of this. You could say "well she's just better" but surely that is unconvincing. Her Jedi heritage is unlikely to be any better than Luke's. And yet she can use the force with no one training her.

I just think it's unconvincing.

Fuck off NPC, Rian is kino

At least he had a fucking journey, unlike Rey who is just inexplicable able to do everything that the plot requires, with no real character development at all.

Anakin was doing force shit on Tattoine before his jedi training

You have been BTFO. She is Anakin 2.0 immaculate conception by Palpatine or actually Skywalker but not Ben Solo's sister

You still have zero arguments outside of name calling. Since I already posted my argument I am allowed to call you a retarded onions guzzling shill. Rian is hack.

I think women can write, but in this new SW trilogy (which is the fault of both male and female writers - e.g. JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson), I do think Rey was literally just conceived as "Hey look, what if we can get this badass girl who can do everything. And we'll make her able to do all the things which people say girls can't do, because #TimesUp #CurrentYear #GirlPower #YasQueenSlay"

It's just fucking cringe. She's not a believable character whatsoever.

>doesn't have an argument
Lmao.

Rian Johnson is straight and has a wife
You are so salty
Stop watching Star Wars if you are this much of a petty beta bitch

You're just another contrarian faggot aren't you? You've got fucking nothing to back up your claims with. You just like riling the other guy up.

Look, it's just hard to engage properly when the term is misused because since it's not what it is, we don't know really what you're complaining about. Kathleen Kennedy does not actually write the films, it was JJ, Lawrence Kasdan, Michael Arndt, and Rian Johnson. All men. Also, why it doesn't have to be self-insert, the meaning is that the author is writing to indulge in the story they're writing to feel better about themselves, which is not what's happening when 3 screenwriters in a room write a movie about a character of an opposite gender so they can market the film to a greater audience.

Like, call it female power fantasy, the equivalent of what male power fantasy is in James Bond or something.

You're right, there are much more male power fantasy movies than female.
So why doesn't anyone criticize John Wick tier shit?

>Anakin was doing force shit on Tattoine before his jedi training
The only "force shit" was his ability to podrace, wasn't it? He wasn't able to use a lightsaber instantly. Again, like Luke, he needed training by a Jedi, and like Luke, he was a bit of a bumbling idiot while he was being trained.

When fighting Dooku, Anakin rushes in and gets force lightninged. He needs Obi-Wan to bail him out. And then he gets his arm chopped off by Dooku. And again, he needs Obi-Wan to bail him out.

youtube.com/watch?v=MYw5KWTe15I

I mean I'm not going to say the prequels have the best narrative and character arcs because they do feel a bit forced and contrived. They knew Anakin had to end up as Vader and they just took a pretty predictable route to get there. And the dialogue wasn't great. But at least Anakin HAD an arc, and he developed as a character. We haven't seen this with Rey. She's just inexplicably amazing at everything. She's not a good-hearted and talented, but ultimately a bit bumbling and clumsy, character like Luke and Anakin were. Both of them then had a whole journey of learning and training before they could reach self-actualisation. Rey seems to be actualised from the very beginning. Which is just boring as fuck.

>Why did Disney make a Mary Sue for a protagonist instead of a real character with depth?
Because a Mary Sue is a good character type to give the audience a whirlwind thrill ride through all the Star Wars tropes in a nostalgia-laden fanservice movie.
TFA was extremely successful at the box office, remember, despite being a shit way to start a new trilogy (or continue the old story).

>Rian Johnson is straight and has a wife
Not sure what that has to do with anything?

>salty
That's not an argument. I'll refer you again to this image: Aren't you able to come up with arguments? Are you too stupid to do that?

>He wasnt able to use lightsaber instantly
Doesn't mean it wouldn't have worked, nobody handed him one

The reason for Reys power: high midichlorian count

There it is

Because of the Galbrush paradox.

They were doomed from the moment they chose to have a female protagonist.

This thread is full of retarded normie brainlet gigafags.

These people always excuse Rey's unrealistic competence with everything, and lack of organic development, by quoting supposed facts about her background. 'She's possibly a Skywalker', 'maybe she was born from the force', 'she had to survive off of junk and fend for herself as a child.' Retarded strawman responses. The problem isn't necessarily that her abilities can't be rationalised in-universe (although many of them really can't be). The problem is that not once does she grow or develop any of them on screen. She already has the piloting skills, tech skills, innate force abilities (she basically discovers these - she is not shown to struggle in order to master them). This is bad writing. The character is uninteresting and unsympathetic. Pure, cheap wish fulfillment - as opposed to inspiration - for women.

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Because literally everyone acknowledges John wick for what it is. It doesn’t try to be sentimental or in service to anything other than the action. Oh, and it’s not trying to rid the coattails of an existing franchise.

>Luke doesn't do any extensive training at all before he performs that immense feat.
Shut the fuck up retard.
Luke is established to have piloting experience. In fact the one thing he's extremely cocky about is being able to shoot (bullseye womp rats). That is like Luke's one fucking skill that he has in the movie. And even then he has to be saved by Wedge and Han to have his chance (after almost everyone else is dead including his good friend Biggs).

Jesus Christ nu wars defenders are some of the dumbest fucks I have ever seen.

>whirwhind thrill ride
literally fell asleep at some point during both movies, but much earlier in TLJ

makes sense

If you make a realistic female character with flaws that isn't overpowered and perfect then you get called sexist.

>The problem is that not once does she grow or develop any of them on screen. She already has the piloting skills, tech skills, innate force abilities (she basically discovers these - she is not shown to struggle in order to master them). This is bad writing. The character is uninteresting and unsympathetic.
Yeah I tried to tell them this is the point but they would rather be pedants about the term “Mary Sue” than discuss how writers failed he character/why the movies disappoint

>A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Notice the word "often", not "always".

>Kathleen Kennedy does not actually write the films, it was JJ, Lawrence Kasdan, Michael Arndt, and Rian Johnson. All men.
Kathleen Kennedy is the producer and has ultimate creative control over everything. Remember how Colin Trevorrow was going to write and direct episode IX, but Lucasfilm basically fired him because they weren't happy with his script? Yeah, that's ultimately Kathleen Kennedy's decision, since she is the president of Lucasfilm.

>Like, call it female power fantasy, the equivalent of what male power fantasy is in James Bond or something.
Yeah that's basically what it is. But most female power fantasies are made for women - e.g. Fifty Shades of Grey. Star Wars isn't historically a series that was a female power fantasy though. They just decided to change it because they are influenced by trends and have no artistic integrity or authenticity whatsoever.

Think about it this way - no one cares that Fifty Shades of Grey is a female power fantasy. That's what it's made as, so that's fine. But imagine they changed that series into a male power fantasy. I bet all the female fans would be pissed and call it "misogyny". And that's basically what's happened with Star Wars. They've turned it into a female power fantasy because they're influenced by trends and have no artistic integrity whatsoever.

it's fucking painful user I really need to stop looking at these threads

You're having to come up with headcanon because there is no explanation found in the movies. We were told of Anakin's high midichlorian count very early in his first movie (within the universe's chronology), so that it would help explain his feats. And his only feat in that movie is podracing. Not combat, which every Star Wars movie (both the OT and the prequels) shows us takes lots of training from a Jedi.

>Because literally everyone acknowledges John wick for what it is
No the fucking don't I saw a comment upvoted to hell on yahoo comments the other day saying John Wick was actually the most original thing hollywood has done in 20 years

That's fucking embarrassing it's standard shoot em up trash. You really underestimate how cancerous male movie fans are

>Why does everyone misuse the term Mary Sue?
Obviously because some big popular movies have some badly written Mary Sue like characters so the term is being bandied about like crazy by people who don't understand it (which includes you).
>Mary Sues have to be self-insert characters by the writer.
No. Fucking no. You are wrong. Yes, I know why you think this before you spout anything else stupid. The term has evolved in a legitimate manner.

Critics use the term to as a shortcut to describing a character that functionally has many of the traits of a Mary Sue and has the same detrimental effect on the story as Mary Sue. The fact that "ACKSHUALLY" a Mary Sue means self-insert is completely missing the point.

The explanation of everything is coming in the new movie

This board got so much worse after we weren't allowed to say the nigger-word anymore.

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>captured by kylo before she "taps into" the force or even tries channeling it
Then she masters the mind trick and escapes without really needing help. See how this works?

Exactly this. There is no character development, no transition from a sometimes bumbling, sometimes clumsy diamond-in-the-rough to a self-actualised master.

Or it doesn't necessarily need to be from clumsy to master; it just needs to be SOME sort of transition. Because that's what makes characters in movies interesting. If they're just the same throughout the entire movie and don't learn anything, what the fuck is the point of the movie?

There's more character development than in two Star Wars sequel movies than anything between Avengers 1-4

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Lmao, butthurt faggot or woman detected.

It is, JJ was influenced by Rian's kino and is bringing back prequel Pottery and lore

If there isn't already an explanation then it's bad writing to be honest.

I'd rather be a woman than think John Wick movies were the most original thing hollywood has done in 20 years.
Why do you defend such trash? I'm not a woman.

Go read Vincent Canby's review of Empire Strikes Back then go look in the mirror you dumb shit
Nothing is supposed to be explained in the second movie of three in a trilogy it's the movie where curveballs are thrown narratively and thinks become more murkier til the last episode.

Do you even into movies

We're not talking about The Avengers, we're talking about Star Wars. If you can't think of a counterargument to mine then that's fine, but don't try and change the topic to cover up for the fact that you can't think of a counterargument.

Star Wars VII and VIII have more development than Avengers 1-4, Jurassic World 1 and 2, John Wick 1-3

How is that not an argument? It is you just don't want to be proved wrong.

I really don't know anything about John Wick, I've never seen it. Why are you so butthurt, faggot?

>Stick to marvel capeshit
>defends space shit
LMAO

Just zero developmental flicks unlike Rian Johnsonkino

>implying
Rian made a movie, one movie, that was better than every single marvelshit combined

Luke didn't have unexplained powers by the end of the second movie you dumb shit, and neither did Anakin. This is why Rey is a Mary Sue, which is the point of this thread.

This is missing the point again like a colossal, mouth breathing, shit-under-fingernails mongoloid. In-canon explanations have nothing to do with the fact that Rey has been a shit character, conveyed shittily. Besides there has been no narrative implication that Rey's numerous abilities - with the possible exception if her force sensitivity - are to be explained by yet unseen factors.

I haven't seen most of those movies so I cannot comment on them. And even if I had, this is a complete non-argument. If you want to argue that Rey has character development then use examples and argue your case. Your "argument" at the moment is basically whataboutism, which is logically fallacious.

Rian Johnson's movie was pretty shit which is why it didn't nowhere near as well as TFA.

Also, Avengers: Endgame made over twice as much money as TLJ. So yeah, I'd say it's a better movie.

Anyway, none of this is relevant to the point of this thread, which is that Rey is a Mary Sue.

Doesn't she also know how to swim despite living her whole life on a desert planet?

Good post. It's about the character development that we see on screen - or in this case, the lack of it.

>There's more character development than in two Star Wars sequel movies than anything between Avengers 1-4
That's not even true. There's all kinds of criticism you can heap on the Marvel capeshit but the fact is that Nu-Wars is worse despite being a setting and storyline that traditionally had (slightly) higher standards than fucking crossover superhero bullshit comics that have always been goofy crap for young teenage boys..

Thor's arc in Infinite War alone is more consistent development than any fucking character across 2 movies in nu star wars. And the fact that he becomes boomer lebowski in Endgame due to guilt from executing Thanos is the kind of basic character-driven writing that Disney Wars COMPLETELY LACKS.

Stop pretending as if you have any fucking clue what you are talking about.

this. she's a shit character plain and simple and that is why people can't suspend the disbelief.

>I saw a comment upvoted to hell on yahoo comments the other day
If u think this is representative of the general reception idk what to tell u. Clam down a little man

also, writer can be female and have a self-insert male character, or male writer can have a self-insert female character. gender match up isn't required, just self-insertion with all the other markings of a Sue/Stu (perfect, hijacks the story from canon characters, etc)

HAVE. SEX!

No, they don’t. Not bc those movies have a lot of development, but just bc the recent SW has even less.

BEND. OVER.

they don't write women as bumbling, sometimes clumsy diamonds-in-the-rough. that's why female characters tend to be far less likable than male in big blockbuster movies. look at MCU. most of their women are generic no nonsense condescending super woman that sneers at male silliness. the only one that's allowed to be silly and endearing is Mantis. They'll never do "fat Thor" or Professor Hulk with a female character. Humor = not stronk not Yas Queen

Yup. It's a hilarious irony that it's much harder for female characters, at least in the current climate, to be likeable or interesting because of these constraints. And thus most of the 'role models' that women end up getting - which they've supposedly demanded for so long - are vastly inferior to the male analogues.

Because Disney's writers are hacks who can't into character development or relatable personalities

Doesn’t matter. Anakin is a literal god and he goes under proper training to use the force and gets his ass handed to him by Dooku in his first fight. But what disgusted me the most about Rey was not her fighting or piloting skills but the Jedi mind trick that she used in the tfa when she was being interrogated. Piloting can he explained with “the force wills it” and so on as anakin and Luke blew up ships in the same way with little experience. However it was absolutely retarded to see someone who didn’t know what the force is last week to use a technique like that.

agreed. It's as if they are set up for failure. on paper, they are bigger badasses...and then end up least liked for people warm up to actual characterization, not Yas Queen shit.

This bait is really tedious, pretty much like all of Yea Forums at this point.

Rey using the mind trick was explained off screen. that's the problem. to understand what's going on, one has to follow Pablo Hidalgo. that's not how movies should work.

GET PREGNANT

Why did Zahn not only shoehorn in a cringy Donut Steel OC Mary Sue like Mara as the main OT character's love interest, no less, but also make a Villain Sue neckbeard-self-insert antagonist, who is so OP he has to be killed via Deus ex Machina, and add unnecessary 'hard' sci-fi elements to a fantasy universe, instead of fucking off to make his own thing, where he can tip fedora and suck blue cocks as much as he wants? And why do nerds praise this garbage, while it's basically a better spelled 'My Immortal'-tier fanfic?

Have sex with your blue dildo, thrawncucks

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Good posts.

True. I still maintain that self-insertion isn't necessary to be a Mary Sue though - at least that's what Wikipedia says. But yeah you're right.

>Rian Johnson's movie was pretty shit which is why it didn't nowhere near as well as TFA.
Imagine being this much of a fucking brainlet. Empire Strikes Back grossed much less than A New Hope and Return of the Jedi.

>money equals quality
>avatar and avengers endgame are better than every single movie made
this board is literally retarded and 100% pleb. im out

>Thors arc
Lmfao you eat shit and enjoy it. His arc was trash and embarrassing

Femsploitation OP.

>muh holes
And this is why it works.

I've only watched a few Marvel movies but I think Black Widow is a good character. She seems to have actual emotions and she's not some flawless character. The scene in Endgame where she and Hawkeye are fighting over who should sacrifice themselves was a pretty good one.

Captain Marvel, on the other hand... I've not seen that movie, but I saw a clip on YouTube of her doing some "yas queen slay" bollocks to a SEXIST BIGOTED WHITE MALE when she was on a motorbike in a parking lot or something. And in Endgame, which I have seen, there is no character development of her at all - she's just some random powerful character. So I haven't seen great characterisation there, although to be fair I haven't seen Captain Marvel like I say.

Scarlet Witch is a cool character because she has this whole back story which motivates her. Gamora is a good character too with real emotions and motivations. Same with Nebula.

Also I was thinking how Sarah Connor was a good female character in The Terminator movies. She turns from a fearful victim into a strong badass (for lack of a better term).

Actual literal answer: Bill Cosby refused to have a single negative image of a black person on his show. He knew this was unrealistic and that obviously a black person can have negative personality defects, but he refused to have any black person in the show portray a negative image. He did this as a counter-weight to what he felt was the majority of TV and film portraying black people negatively as criminals, drug addicts or bumbling idiots.

Star Wars has the same ideology. The executive team is entirely made up of women. They've made their agenda fairly clear - 'the force is female.' There is no way that it was an accident that two different writers/directors both portrayed Ray as being literally without fault. Say what you will about Rian Johnson, but the protagonists in his previous movies weren't anything like that. Same for JJ Abrams - look at his version of Picard. He's the protagonist and is ultimately good and likeable, but he's also portrayed as gigantic asshole in places with severe personality defects.

Rey is the way that she is deliberately and by design, and to complain about it relentlessly is to completely miss the point. Their goal is to make a perfect image of competence for women, to counter balance the dominance of male protagonists and female side-kicks or plot devices.

I'm OP and it's not bait. I've been making many posts in this thread to argue for why I think Rey is a Mary Sue.

It’s a stupid argument for sure but if the position you’re defending is Star Wars reboot = quality then your side is equally stupid and plenty.

>Rey is the way that she is deliberately and by design, and to complain about it relentlessly is to completely miss the point.
Nah.

The reasons for Avatar making lots of money and Star Wars making more money than Empire are more to do with spectacle than they are to do with the quality of each movie.

(I personally prefer Star Wars to Empire though, but the point is that the spectacle of Star Wars is what made that movie earn so much more than Empire, rather than it just being due to superior quality).

Note how Avatar and Star Wars were both the first movies in their series. Each of them were brand new and novel.

Endgame and TLJ are fair comparisons though; neither is the first movie in its series. They are both episodes in a series. And Endgame made more money because more people liked it. TLJ had a sharper second week drop than Endgame (and a MUCH sharper drop than TFA) because people didn't like it.

Also, Endgame has an audience score of 89% on Rotten Tomatoes, while TLJ only has 44%. Suck on it, trannies.

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I do think his turn in Endgame wasn't the most entertaining, but it was better and more interesting than anything that has happened to Rey. Her character has not really changed, developed, or evolved since we first saw her in the first movie. She is exactly the same person. Which is why she is such a dull and uninteresting character.

Bill Cosby came from a completely different social climate and era though.
Blacks REALLY needed some positive role-models that weren't street savy reformed thugs.

The cool thing about 80s and 90s black sticoms is that they behaved like white people without complaining all the time about how unfair society was to them, they have a POSITIVE model to black dudes watching those shows.

Women nowadays are in every single middle-manager position, there's a shitload of rich women around and no one actually discriminates against women.

Blacks were discriminated against in the late 70s-early 80s.

>Picard
I assume you mean Kirk. Picard was not in JJ Abram's Star Trek movie. Yes, Kirk in those Star Trek movies is definitely a more interesting character than Rey. Abrams didn't write any of the new Star Trek movies by the way. But yes Kirk has better character development in them than Rey does.

Also I agree that Rey was obviously just constructed with the idea of "HEY GUISE LET'S HAVE LIKE SOME FEMALE BADASS WHO KICKS BUTT BECAUSE MEN HAVE HAD A GO FOR TOO LONG, AND WE WANT TO SHOW THAT GIRLS CAN KICK SOME ASS TOO, #TIMESUP #CURRENTYEAR"

It's just fucking cringe because they have an agenda to see a certain kind of character "represented", rather than simply a desire to tell a good story.

Apart from the complaining part (I think we have every right to complain), I agree with him.