Rhaegar a married man fell in love with a woman that is betrothed to another man

Moral of the story: free love, open marriages, swinger parties/orgies would have solved every single problem in the recorded history of drama.
The '70s had it right.
Imagine how much less drama and tension there'd be in the world if most people would just fuck everyone else. Of course, there'd have to be a cutoff point for the incredibly ugly or diseased.

he insulted Dorne heavily. the rebellion would have started in the south.

And Tywin wanted to rebel too

yeah but they can't do shit, Elia was in King's Landing

Cringe

The real question is why did they cast that guy as Rhaegar

Robert would have destroyed Lyanna, she wasn't crying about dying in the visions, she's been crying for sometime about how her family was going to just deliver her to Robert, but her silver prince saved her.

Love is the Death of Duty: Rhaegar and Lyanna

Duty is the Death of Love: Jon and Daenerys

>he insulted Dorne heavily
I think Dorne is okay with non-traditional marriages, as long as he didn't abandon his first wife.

But that's exactly what he did

As I said, he'd have damaged Targaryen reputation heavily and relations with at least three great houses (Stark, Martell, and Baratheon. Four if you count Arryn via his ties to Stark and Baratheon). But not a full on rebellion. Aerys ensured that. Rhaegar probably perceived the damage the Targaryen standing worth it if it meant fulfilling this prophecy.

GODS HE WAS STRONG THEN

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Destroyed? Like her puss? Robert was a good man but a gymcel. Rhaegar was a Chad otter. Of course that roastie Lyanna preferred Rhaegar. They were both massive cunts, basically Chad and Stacy of Westeros. Shame Bobby didn't get to kill that faggot twice.

If the war never happens and Brandon marries Cat, where does that put Ned? Ashara Dayne? The Wall?

>gymcel
He was described as very handsome in his youth. It was all the sleeping around and general frat boy behaviour that put Lyanna off.

>Tullys, Starks, Aryns, and Baratheons planning rebellion for years
>Lyanna and Rhaegar run away together
>Brandon and Rickard die in KL
>Mad King calls for the heads of Ned and Bobby B
>Jon Arryn says no
>Rebellion starts
You normie shits are so obsessed with Lyanna and Rhaegar when they actually had little to do with the motivations of the rebellion.

Nigga, the Dornish army marched upon the Trident with Rhaegar.
Lewyn Martell, Elia's sister was a Kingsguard and one of Rhaegar's best friends and he died at the Trident fighting for him. Arthur Dayne fucking helped Rhaegar and Lyanna hide in Dorne, despite his sister being friends with Elia. Dorne didn't give a shit.

*Elia's brother,

Yep. Aerys not sperging out means no war. But you're referring to the southron ambitions theory in the first line, right? Refresh me on that theory. I recall the Lannisters being involved too but not why they would begin conspiring in the first place. Wasn't Rhaegar also plotting against his father cause of how unstable he was?

they wanted the iliad audience

It's over. Stop talking about it, brainlet queers.

wat r deez books u speck of???

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This just shows the halo effect that a Chad like Rhaegar has.

>inserting incel bullshit into the books
Fuck off, faggot.

Its one the best theories out there, basically that Rickard and the other lords had been conspiring against Aerys the entire time. Lady Dustin was pissed that she couldn't marry Brandon Stark and instead he was betrothed to Cat. So they were tying the allegiance of all these great houses together, but If they had a plan it obviously didn't go as intended seeing as some major players get killed. So even if Aerys does't burn Rickard and Brandon, the rebellion could have still happened.

>>lit

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Tywin and Aerys started hating each other because Aerys was becoming scared of Tywin's power who was the real ruler of westeros when he was Hand. From that point on Aerys did all he could to undermine Tywin and they basically started plotting against each other.
And there is the story with Tywin's wife and the fact that Aerys might have possibly raped her.

Basic gestalt is all the great lords of Westeros had become war buddies during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Tywin Lannister, Rickard Stark, Hoster Tully, Jon Arryn, Steffon Baratheon. With the dawning of the Mad King, they plotted to bind their houses together through marriage and unseat the Mad King and either rule themselves independently or place Rhaegar on the Throne

grug don't read

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Lannisters would have been roped in too considering they were trying to match Jaime with Lysa. Wasn't the plan also to install Rhaegar? So Aerys gets overthrown rather than Targaryen as a House? Was Rhaegar aware of this, or did he simply decide fulfilling this prophecy was more important and screwed the whole conspiracy up?

>silver prince saved her
kek rhaegar only fucked lyanna so he can fulfill his prohecy

Not to mention he appointed his true heir to the kingsguard, meaning Jamie would not be able to lead house lannister

because "muh romeo and juliet"

>that toddler under 25 who pretends having a meme folder isn't the most brainlet thing possible
Of course you watch this shit and read genre trash.

>. It was all the sleeping around and general frat boy behaviour that put Lyanna off.

It goes beyond sleepng around, Robert was obssessed with possessing Lyanna, but he didn't really get her though and didn't want to. His bestfriend Ned has remarked on this, that Robert don't remember how fierce Lyanna was when Robert was lamenting Cersei.

Observe the contrast between how Robert perceive Lyanna versus how Gendry interacts with Arya.

youtube.com/watch?v=_ibQDSxU24E

Gendry respect Arya's person and choices the way Robert doesn't Lyanna's and Cersei. Catlyn was a bit of a cold bitch too (observe her treatment of Jon) , but she grew to love Ned because Ned didn't get drunk and demand his marital rights. Ned was also a better lord than Robert was King, Robert skip all the meetings...

Yep, I recall all that, and Rhaegar was universally admired and respected too.

Replace Rhaegar's looks with Hodor's and see if it makes sense.

>No one tried to convince Aerys to call a fucking truce and give back Lyanna since he didn't like his son anyways
Was it hack writing from fatman or can it be excused with Aerys burning anyone who didn't do his bidding(Connington was exiled instead of execution by wildfire though)?

The shit Rhaegar pulled wasn’t common knowledge. Dorne only knew he abducted a Stark despite being married. A dick move, sure, but it’s not an annul his marriage and give a giant middle finger to you dick move.

Rhaegar planned on calling a great council of the lords of westeros after the Trident in order to end the rebellion. We obviously don't know what he would have done but I could imagine them placing him on the throne. Instead he fell the great and powerful Robert Baratheon

Aerys definitely would not have listened. His failsafe was burning the entire city to the ground. For him, it was either victory or total death and destruction. A truce would not have been entertained.

>LOL u r baby xD.

why was Oberyn more pissed about the Lannisters instead of the Targs?
all the KG went with Rhaegar to fight and the others to protect Lyanna, Jaime was the only KG left at Kings Landing but he is sworn to protect the King so he can't do shit to help Elia and the kids.

Then you still get an incredibly poetic, erudite man that can still win friends, is a great warrior, and respected.

He also got the ball rolling with the Tourney at Harrenhall, hosted by Lord Whent, whose son was one of Rhaegars closest friends and a knight of the Kingsguard who was ultimately at the Tower of Joy. Lots of things are said about why Rhaegar called the Tourney at Harrenhall to be hosted, many say he was feeling out the Lords of the Realm to see what they thought of him as opposed to his father. The Mad King shocked everyone by arriving, as he'd shunned public appearances since the Defiance of Duskendale, one of the root causes of his insanity and paranoia.

Because the lannisters are the ones who killed his sister and her children?

Aerys had no power over Rhaegar, they hated each other. Didn't Aerys try to disavow him at some point and made Viserys the crown prince?

doesnt matter, Rhaegar didnt left anyone to protect his ex wife.

Rhaegar is the Griffith of Westeros.

Uh because the Lannisters murdered his sister and niece and nephew?? Martells fought on the side of the loyalists. Prince Llewyn, of the Kingsguard, died with Rhaegar at the Trident

Wasn't defiance at duskendale featured in the final dunk and egg novella?

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Cause Tywin ultimately ordered Elia's rape and murder and the infanticide. The Targaryens didn't. And he can actually direct his hate and anger at the Lannisters as they're still a tangible, powerful entity in Westeros that never suffered any repercussions for the sack.

“No”.

>Jaime was the only KG left at Kings Landing but he is sworn to protect the King so he can't do shit to help Elia and the kids.
He wanted to but Aerys wouldn't let him leave the throne room, but not like Oberyn would ever know since Jaime didn't even tell Ned and Robert about the wildfire under the city.

Rhaegar hardly thought Kings Landing would fall. He thought he was the fucking Prince Who Was Promised. He thought he was going to call a great council after the Trident and be named King of the Iron Throne and sweep the rot and schemers out of KL. He thought his son with Lyanna would lead the army of the living, along with his other children, against the army of the dead, Rhaegar was wrong about a lot of things.

>It doesn't matter who killed the people that he is upset about being killed.
Also, why the fuck would he want vengeance on targaryens when their are literally like three targaryens alive, none of which had anything to do with the murder. You are an idiot friend.

Because they didn't know Rhaegar annulled his marriage with Elia. You think they still would've sided with him if they knew that?
>Arthur Dayne fucking helped Rhaegar and Lyanna hide in Dorne,
He had to, he was Kingsguard. Rhaegar could've gone to war with his own family and Dayne would've had to help him.

>Prince Who Was Promised
I thought he regarded his first son, Aegon, as the Prince Who Was Promised? He, somewhere down the line, then decides the real one would be the child he'd have with Lyanna. IIRC, we still don't know what TPTWP is exactly, nor what the Song of Ice and Fire is.

>could’ve married the love of his life
>instead chained up with Tullyfuckingshits

> but his son did lead the army of the living against the dead
That is what he really cared about, the prophecy was central to his character.

>turns out the prophecy was a complete meme anyway and Rhaegar was just trying to get some northern booty by pulling the same shit you do when trying to get with astrology thots
was he /ourguy/

Ned had a thing with Ashara? Huh. But Catelyn in the books is meant to be hot, and it's obvious he did love her from his POV chapters, so he did pretty well all things considered.

No, he was told that the PTWP would come from his line but he didn't know for certain which child. The obvious answer for Ice and Fire is obviously Jon Snow.

First he thought it was himself, then he thought it was his first son, Aegon, then he started thinking that because the Dragon has 3 Heads, that he needed 3 children. And because Elia had such a difficult time birthing Aegon, he knew another child would kill her, so he had to find another wife to give him another child, the third head of the dragon.

It would easily be a full on rebellion. Lyonel Baratheon started a rebellion just over a betrothal being broken, much less a fucking secretly annulled marriage.

Aerys had no clue what Rhaegar was up to. All he knows is pissed off Northern and Stormlands lords are knocking down his door demanding he return some ho he's got nothing to do with out of nowhere and his paranoid mind immediately jumpes to "they're plotting to overthrow me"

>All this Rhaegar hate and demonization
You guys like act like Rhagear was Hitler and personally raped all of you.

Ned was an incel and couldn't work up the courage to ask Ashara to dance, big bro does it for him, he kills Arthur Dayne and returns with dawn. Ashara kills herself out of grief. Fans have a lot of theories that she didn't die or other gay shit. She is dead.

Ned and Cat has basically no relationship prior to Bobby B's Big Break. Young Cat was a dumb Stacy. They grew together over the course of their marriage.

>The obvious answer for Ice and Fire is obviously Jon Snow.
Fucker doesn't even have gray hair, fuck outta here with that pretender. There's only one Aegon.

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I think it ended up being a happy accident that they got on well together

>In Spring, Eddard Stark approached a middle aged Riverlands man named Edmyn Tully on the tourney grounds and, using a large wooden sparring sword, struck him in the head until he was knocked unconscious while calling him a "Tully fucking shit". That same day, Stark also attacked a second Rivellands man named Joshua "Jo" Tully, punching him in the eye without provocation.
Such injustice.

If only Bobby B could show up and smash in Griffith's shit too

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Watch Preston

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I don't see Jon's name in the books being Aegon, and the blackfyre pretender Young Griff will get killed by Dany.

Ashara died giving birth do Jon, bro.

>fAegon Blackfyre
>descended from the female Blackfyre line no less
a shitty worthless pretender no doubt

Based.

I love Preston but he's like the Alex Jones of ASOIAF. Half the shit he says it completely retarded. He didn't even believe that Joffrey hired the catspaw until GRRM confirmed it.

Catelyn being hot might be a bit of an exaggeration. Expecially if you compare her to Ashara who was said to be the most beautiful woman in the realm. And I dont think Ned loved her.

how can you be so far off? did you stop reading after the first book?

If it matters, I bet his Targaryen name in the books is Aemon, or Jaehaerys, Rhaegars' grandfather who first believed the PTWP prophecy would come from his bloondline.

Nah it's not an exaggeration. Cat is described as beautiful by multiple different characters, and Sansa, who is also described as hot, is described as inheriting her good looks.

Based and redpilled

Really? In his POV it's noted how much he'll miss Catelyn along with his home and other children, how he misses holding her in his arms at night, looks forward to seeing her again, etc. Maybe she was never the one like Ashara was but I think there was love. I'd say she loved him more than he loved her but that's about it.

Nah dude she and Shiera Seastar fused with the potara earrings and became Quaith

IIRC, Benioff and Weiss were actively searching for book stuff to make a tv show out of. It wasn't some series they had a deep passion for and they just had to adapt out of love. They were actively searching, decided it must be ASoIaF simply because of the RW and how shocking they found it, etc.

Yeah Ned definitely loved Cat. Like you said he constantly misses her in his POV.

Ned-Ashara is just tumblr shipping

Prove me wrong then.

Nah, Daenerys is Rhaegar's third child and her real name is Visenya, the real Aegon got baby raped along with Rhaenys and Young Griff is a fake Targ AND a fake Fyre.

I love it when we get insights into the southron ambitions stuff or the Harrenhal tourney, like when Meera and Jojen tell Bran stories about Harrenhal and are clearly unsettled by the fact he doesn't understand the history as they do cause Howland didn't keep them in the dark like Ned did.

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Jony boy is the one who's already dead user

delusional

This is all totally normal behavior though. Women who arent attracted to a man theyre supposed to be attracted to for whatever reason will make up/ find reasons for it. And stubborn men (especially in the context of arranged marriage) that are in love with someone else will drop their current partner like a hot cake

These are supposed to be 2 of the most attractive people in Westeros at that time.

t. Preston

Yeah I really wished they hyped Rhaegar up, made him this charming prince that all he Normie fans fall in love with only for Robert to crush us chest and face with a warhammer and Rhaegar just lets out the stinkiest, longest log on the planet as he shits himself dying

if they have deep passion and they just had to adapt our of love then why did they stray away from the books?

Many non-incestuous Targs didn't have white hair. Baelor Breakspear didn't and he was one of the best Targs.

Hitler dindu muffins
Dragonspawn deserves hammertime

How? Read the books. Rhaegar got fawned over a lot for being pretty but was respected massively for his intelligence, warrior skills, maturity, etc.

>intelligence
if he only didnt find out about the prophecy then he would have been a great king

are you seriously crucifying them for not knowing exactly how bad things would turn out, you judgmental fuck? i bet you talk shit about robb too

>Ashara got pregnant/dishonored by a stark at the tourney of harrenhall.
>We have no reason to believe this is ned, but we do have reason to believe its brandon.
>Jon is slightly younger than Robb.
>If Jon had been conceived at the tourney of Harrenhall he would be older than robb.

I'm constantly reminded of hearing about their aborted pilot for GoT that had to be almost entirely reshot, and the state of the show from season 5 and beyond. They thought their pilot was incredible and were crushed when they showed it to their boss and friends, who all said it was fucking terrible. For whatever reason, it was almost entirely OC shit they cooked up, much like later seasons of the show. They don't have a speck of talent between the two of them, and left to their own devices the show would have been an unwatchable shitheap from episode 1.

they are talentless jews. their movies suck too, cant wait to see how mindless and shitty their SW movies will be. Safe to bet they'll be starring a lot of the main cast from GoT, suddenly found unemployed. Kit and Sophie as the leads. Maisie, Sam, Greyworm and Missandei rounding out the cast.

Reread my comment. I wrote it WASN'T a deep passion that made them adapt the books.

>after Rhaegar fucked Lyanna Stark and knocked her up he fucked his own mother and impregnated her aswell
Targaryen fucking shits

>Baelor Breakspear
why do you have to remind me bro..

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To be fair, literally everybody knew that bigamy and annuling the crown prince's marriage with one of the great Houses would mean an absolute shitstorm if.

*shitstorm.

>well to be fair lyanna can be excused because shes just a teenager
Doesn't fucking fly in the medieval world.

They come across as arrogant frat boys that think they're erudite and hot shit. Also, statements like "Creatively it made sense, because wanted it to happen". For Christ's sake...

Daenerys is Lyanna's child

Maekar is such a fuckup. No wonder incels love him.

kill yourself you retarded nigger.

it's a tv and film board, every film that is discussed is "over" as well.

Jon can't be Brandon's son and be younger than Robb. It's impossible.
They might be lying about his age though

Wasn't Lewyn her uncle?

yeah it does, she think her and robert won't work because he's a whoremonger.
she didn't even think that robert won't change

Yeah, he's Doran's uncle.

Yes, probably. It was Doran, I think two other siblings that either died young or were stillborns, and then Elia and Oberyn. Doran monologues about Elia and Oberyn playing in the Water Gardens in AFfC.

Rhaegar lucked out with the Kingsguard. Chad bros like Dayne, Whent, and Martell and badass mentor figures like Hightower. Rhaegar even played the big brother role to Jaime briefly.

>Daenerys is Lyanna's child
go to bed preston, D&D already confirmed that George himself told them R+L=J

What are you talking about? Jon is not brandons son, Jon is not neds son. Jon is Lyanna's son.

Jaike was supposed to protect them, it's actyally the only thing Jaime regrets the most.

She would/should have been taught from birth why her sucking it up and marrying Robert is good and that there could be dire consequences should she fail that duty.

How many people do you actually think would have figured R+L=J out by themselves when reading the books?

>Ned/Ashara is just tumblr shipping
confirmed for not knowing the tumblrfags at all

That whole scene was traumatic as fuck.
>“My man.” The black knight put a hand on Raymun’s shoulder to steady himself. “I need good men, Ser Duncan. The realm…” His voice sounded oddly slurred. Perhaps he’d bit his tongue.

>Dunk was very tired. It was hard to stay awake. “Your man,” he murmured once more.

>The prince moved his head slowly from side to side. “Ser Raymun…my helm, if you’d be so kind. Visor…visor’s cracked, and my fingers…fingers feel like wood…”

>“At once, Your Grace.” Raymun took the prince’s helm in both hands and grunted. “Goodman Pate, a hand.”

>Steely Pate dragged over a mounting stool. “It’s crushed down at the back, Your Grace, toward the left side. Smashed into the gorget. Good steel, this, to stop such a blow.”

>“Brother’s mace, most like,” Baelor said thickly. “He’s strong.” He winced. “That…feels queer, I…”

It's foreshadowed enough to guess if you're really thinking about it but also easy enough to miss if you aren't paying attention so I think a decent amount would've missed it.

nigga read about the halo effect

You're the one who talked about it

>"themes are for your middle school english class"
>"makes you kind of wonder where this plot is going"
>dany kinda forgot about skorpions and euron"
either their parents are well connected or theyve sucked a lot of jew dick or both

The post isn't saying that Jon is brandon's son?
He is saying that it The pregnancy that resulted from Ned/Brandon dishonoring Ashara could not have resulted in the birth of jon snow. Ashara posters need to go back to tumblr.

Most of them?

I was told to disprove someone who said jon was Ashara and Neds son wrong, I did. I never said Jon was brandons son. You are playing dumb.

Funny considering tumblr is all about R + L = J

Dunk and Egg is better than the main series.

I like N+A=J because Targ shits are retarded. Not a huge fan of Starks, but will take them over Targ fucking shits.

People figured out R+L=J in the late 90s.

I know what the halo effect is. You're simply not making any sense by replying with one word shit like "Delusional".

>Jon is Ned and Ashara Daynes' bastard
>Daenaerys is Rhaegar and Lyannas child, even tho Stark genes are dominant over recessive Targaryen inbred genes
>fAegon isn't Aegon or a Blackfyre pretender, hes really just a Pisswater Prince
muh expectations

the logistics of Daenerys being Rhaegar and Lyannas child dont add up, why would he send her across the Narrow Sea if he promised to his sister he'd keep her safe? How does he get her to Dragonstone before Stannis' arrival, when it was Ned who lifted the siege of Storms End before he went to the Tower of Joy?

I think he's asking about your average reader figuring it out without the internet or any outside source telling them. Obviously everybody theorizing on fansites or serious fans thinking about it will figure it out.

N+A=J is wrong, you can like it all you want, but it is still wrong.

Did they give him the Viserys haircut to make normies understand he's a targshit?

I like to think ned would have married ashara and gotten his own keep in the stormlands.

Benioff's father was a former head of Goldman Sachs and he was a part of high flying fraternities/societies at Dartmouth. He's well connected.

Tumblr fucking loves the Targshits, hence they adore R+L=J
Jon being a Dayne bastard works just as well, with the whole Sword of the Morning/Azor Ahai aesthetic

In that case I just confirmed your point that Brandon can't be Jon's father while Jon being younger than Robb. What's the problem?

you dun geh et

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Yep, that's precisely my point.

It was literally the absolute first asoiaf theory, that Jon was a secret Targaryen baby and heir to the throne. It's very heavily implied throughout the first book. It's occam's razor level

Not only this but Viserys was fucking there when her mother died giving birth to her.

Can't agree, but it's top of tier in its own. Gotta love the exasperated sane Targs.
>Prince Daeron gave a weary shrug. “Egg has the truth of it. Aerion’s quite the monster. He thinks he’s a dragon in human form, you know. That’s why he was so wroth at that puppet show. A pity he wasn’t born a Fossoway, then he’d think himself an apple and we’d all be a deal safer, but there you are.”

ITT: A reminder of why never to argue with an incel halfwit stuck in his ways like some old man. I'm simply surprised you didn't spam 'COPE! COPE!!' in earlier replies.

Do you just reply to people repeating what they originally stated?

>doesn't know what the halo effect is
>says he knows what it is
ok

Sometimes? Why does it bother you?

Read this user's post: . That's what I meant. I know the theory has existed for a long, long time and is one of the most popular, but how many people would have figured it out by themselves simply reading the books with no fan sites or media or whatever planting the whole idea in their head

reading the books for the first time in middle school early high school i was shook when i took to the interbutts and found out i wasnt the only one who thought R+L=J. This was roughly 15 years ago.

>>He was described as very handsome in his youth. It was all the sleeping around and general frat boy behaviour that put Lyanna off.
I always thought it was a bit more than that. For all Robert thought Lyanna was hot, I think he was more in love with the idea of being Ned's brother in law than he was with her. I almost imagine that during their courtship he'd try charming her, only to get lost in a tangent about how awesome he thought her brother was, and be too oblivious to ever pick up that they weren't clicking off. I think he just assumed she'd be manically enthused about it as he was.

Running off with Rhaeger was absolutely foolish. Course Lyanna is also a stupid hormonal teenager who was being wooed by a warrior-poet prince who told her she was the most important girl in the world, who knew how to talk her ovaries into rationalizing why him being married already wasn't a problem.

Course I also think Rhaegar was a creeper weirdo with delusions of grandeur who totally had it coming when Robert caved his chest in.

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I didn't figure it out before I went online but I'm also retarded so who knows

I prefer N+A=fAegon, and Ashara is Septa Lemore

It's not rocket science. It's good looking people being ascribed positive attributes cause they are good looking. They same thing an ugly guy does but gets perceived as positive instead of negative cause of handsomeness. What of it?

He didn't send her across the Narrow sea, he sent her to Dorne. She left for Essos sometime later.

Why does Ned only worry about failing to keep his promise to Lyanna after he gets thrown in the black cells and fails to call off the hit against Daenerys before Robert dies? If his promise was to keep Jon safe it makes no sense because Jon's safety hasn't changed as far as Ned knows since he left for the wall, if anything he's the safest Stark of them all. Jonfags have no answer for this.

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Not only that but its overly complicated and retarded. A depth beyond GRRM even, with his Southron Ambitions and Grand Northern Conspiracies. I like the dense theories, but the theory that all three of them are hidden secret babies with false identities and upbringings is too much. I can see fAegon as a Blackfyre or as just a random orphan baby. But Dany being Lyannas'? Jon being Asharas or just a random whores? All of them being switched and swapped around secretly at birth with double or triple identities?

>. I almost imagine that during their courtship he'd try charming her, only to get lost in a tangent about how awesome he thought her brother was, and be too oblivious to ever pick up that they weren't clicking off
If Ned was born a girl everything would've been okay

Nigger read about the 11 inch python effect

They just had the one wig

targs can have multiple wives

But Viserys was there when Dany was born at Dragonstone

You get a hint for it when Barristan the Based tells Dany about how good Rheagar was, makes you question why he would kidnap and rape Lyanna. I always thought it was super obvious as soon as it is mentioned that Rheagar gave Lyanna the blue flower crown at the tourney.

no they can't. they tried to and the faith of the 7 got pissed at them so they stopped.

Yeah it would be wonderful never knowing who is really your son or if you even have one. Nothing better than just raising kids who arent even yours.

Rhaegar wouldn't be adored for those things that much if he wasn't as handsome as he was. His looks amplify his traits. It's not just being ascribed positive traits. Imagine if Hodor was handsome. He'd be Hodor the Bold because of the traits he had instead of Hodor the Dumbo.

>makes you question why he would kidnap and rape Lyanna.
The first story the reader is presented about Rhaegar in the first Dany chapter is that he loved her and ran off with her. him being a crazy rapist was always obviously Robert being seething.

What about R+L=fAegon and N+A=J?

based

youtube.com/watch?v=92wM03QdjI4&t

That and little snippets start slipping out here and there about how Lyanna really felt about Robert. Neds dreams about the ToJ really stuck out to me too. Why would the Kingsguard be there guarding the Princes GF while everyone else fought a war and died over her?

Been so long since I read any of the books, there was lots of other little things too that draw parallels between Jon and Dany

rhaegar wanted to father the prince that was promised. it took him a while to figure out who the mother would be.

>If Ned was born a girl everything would've been okay

YES, provided that Ned was just as Beautiful as Lyanna, or we'll have another bitter Lysa situation.

Seriously, Ned is always polishing Robert's dick.

He'd still be Hodor the Dumbo because he'd still be a halfwit than can only say one word. Rhaegar gets adored more (especially by the women) for his looks but a guy looking like Hodor that is still a great warrior, has a good heart, an intellectual, poet, and erudite still gets respect and would still win friends among the likes of Dayne and co.

For the love of God and everything holy have sex. Have sex I say

Viserys is a liar, shocking. While he's safely ahead of her by the rules male primgoeniture, he's still the second son of an unpopular king and a known fuckup himself and a younger sister is less of a threat to him than a niece who's the only surviving daughter of a much more popular older brother

>being a shit-lord rape apologist

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Lysa was pretty in her youth, but it went downhill with the first abortion, marrying old Arryn, the various stillborns, and so on.

>books

Both Cersei and Jaime point it out, IIRC.

what motivation does Viserys have to lie about such a thing? he originally thought he was going to marry Dany anyway why would he give a shit that she's Rhaegar's daughter.

My man. Ashara gunna get vengeance for the murder of her old flame.

I'm not a bookfag but I heard the show COMPLETELY glossed over a book plot that Rhaegear was obsessed with birthing Prince That Was Promised, and was certain Lyanna was the ice to his fire that Aegon would be the song of. He did what he did to save the realm. The show just gave some dumb love story and tried to wrap the series up by tying to tie Robert's unrequited love for Lyanna into Daenerys's for Westeros.

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Pls dilate

Exactly why I think Jon is really just Ned's bastard with some random whore.

Ned-Ashara was for when the debate was R+L=J vs. A+N=J. Jon being a Targ is cool and all, but if he was a Dayne he'd have some serious GigaChad blood in him.

Holy fugggggg what a forehead

Ned + Lysa Tully = Arya
Robert + Lyanna = J
Brandon + Ashara = Jeyne Westerling

What if robert was born a girl.

>Jon is Ned (or Brandon) and Ashara's son
>Aegon is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son
>Ashara is Septa Lemore
>Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder

You will see.

>he hasn't been raped
>his moral superiority is a facade
dilate

But its beautiful

There's only room for one chad Dayne in the series

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I already told you

Wouldn't the death of his teenage crush break Ned?

Dubs don't lie. Lannisters gonna die

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doesn't let people talk about shit as stupid as Game of Thrones

Viserys is literally too retarded to lie, besides being a man he goes first on the line of succession anyways.

>why did the show portray rhaegar and lyanna as some sweet couple who did nothing wrong?
they didn't you retard

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Why would he care that Dany is the daughter of the apparently more popular Rhaegar when he was planning to marry her anyway?

He'd win friends among close males, yeah. He wouldn't be revered across Westeros and praised by thots like Lyanna though.

Fuggin BESED

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>fuck everybody except the diseased
>everyone becomes diseased
Made me think

Have virtue.

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Dubs confirm
Filthy Robb is a cousinfucker

Because the show is poorly written.

If they were to follow the books his reasoning is partly true love and partly so he can sire the savior of the world by having a son with the blood of the true dragonlords and the blood of the first men who are capable of warging. All the terrible shit that happened because of his decision will ultimately have been the right thing to do when the books are all said and done.

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>not only having an opinion, but also responding to people who have an opinion on your opinion.

yeah because its so hard to fool a toddler.

6 foot tall big titted Stormlander woman femdomming Ned all day

Is Yea Forums only for sticklers?
Why?

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doesn't hodor have a giant dick

Prequels, my dude

Oh so now Viserys is in on the plot to protect Daenerys from the Usurper, by going along with lies from the Usurpers dogs? If Viserys is the only male Targaryen it doesn't matter if Daenerys is his sister, his niece or his cousin, he's still ahead of her in line of succession

awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Mya_Stone

except GRRM hates prophecy.

do you even

>Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder.

Wut.

The honorable Ned Stark forsook his honor for some random whore? Jon Snow is obviously the secret heir trope subverted

Ned is a rock. He might have loved and even planned on marrying ashara, but he probably couldn't let it to get to him. As much as it might hurt.

Because he can marry her if she's his niece or his sister and if she's his sister she's less of a potential threat to his own claim (by someone playing Kingmaker with her over him for example) even if by the official rules he still trumps her either way.

Jonfags still have no answer to the black cells question.

Now thats the good stuff.

Ned has PTSD from seeing the murdered Targaryen babes and his dying sister so the thought of any murdered children triggers him. Thats the only reason he even said anything to Cersei, because he didn't want to see anymore dead children at his feet.

maybe it was just a thing in the comic adaptation. i havent read the books in a couple years.

This theory is based on the fact that Arthur and Mance uttered the same phrase ("I wish you goodluck in the wars to come") shortly before being killed in the show, which is lackluster, because Mance is never burned by Stannis and there is no other basis for that theory in the books.

ITT retards
Jon is the son of Robert and Lyanna.

Do you have a source on that? Have you even read the books? Because there are like 50 prophecies in the books and almost all of them have came to pass. There has not been a single prophecy in the book that has been shown to be bullshit and never fulfilled.

Except he's certain people love the Targs and would rally to him. He's really not thinking about downplaying Daenerys

>Thats the only reason he even said anything to Cersei, because he didn't want to see anymore dead children at his feet.

It's D&D who forgot that in the books it's Sansa who warns the queen about her father's plans, because she doesn't want to leave King's Landing and Joffrey.

Ned's death was miswritten in that aspect.

>Rhaegar could've gone to war with his own family and Dayne would've had to help him.

No, if he had gone to war against Aerys he would have had to help Aerys.

I think Arthur was gay for Rheagar.

Jon also recalls Mance being a "younger" ranger when he meets him with Ned and Robb some eight years after the rebellion. This is right up there with Euron=Daario

Nah, that's JonCon. Dayne and Rhaegar were simply best bros.

There is also the whole duel between Jon and Mance. Mance saying how it feels good fighting with a 2-handed sword again and how good he is at wielding it.

There's also a retarded theory that Qhorin was Arthur, as well as an even more retarded theory Mance is Rhaegar.

That's the surface level reading of the story and it doesn't explain why, if R+L=J is correct, Ned worries about JON's safety (if he is the subject of Ned's promise) after being imprisoned in the black cells.

She is also a Targ and potentially a more popular one than him if she's Rhaegar's child

JonCon was canonically gay for Rhaegar. Muh silver prince indeed.

That's what happens you go 8 fucking years without a new book, you get retarded theories like that.

by his own family I meant Dayne's family.

No, it’s much later. Dunk and egg are like 100 up to 60 years before ASoIaF

>bitterly rants about Elia Martell, who all others think highly of, cause she for that sweet dragon dick that he wishes he had

Why not both?

Qhorin is more likely to be Oswell and Tormund Gerold Hightower

watch the show?

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Because this isn't tumblr.

They're more like memes and the joke is on the retard who spreads them thinking they're real. Even if you talk about them just to laugh at them, you're still spreading them, that's how memes work through retards.

That's not evidence or proof, that is suspicion.

But we've been shown countless times this isnt at all how Viserys thinks about his situation, nor how he thinks politically at all. He's not sharp

Say what you will about the story, the final theme of "love is the end of duty" is a pretty true and honest phrase

If Rhaegar stayed dutiful he wouldn't have done what he did with Lyanna. If Cersei stayed dutiful she wouldn't have fucked Jaime. If Jon Snow chose love over duty Dany and him would reign over the entire world

It's pretty potteryic

Her life was depressing. Imagine actually being married to that autismo prince then getting raped and murdered by a rabid nigger because he ruined everything with his aspie prophecies.

If they just do the Targaryan dynasty leading up to Aegon that shit will be cancer from the get go. Even just watching GoT casually you know everything that happens.

>what is a theory

It's how they avoid the capeshit problem. Yea Forums remains dominated by discussions of philosophy and classics

I hope he's nobody and that all those Kingsguard are actually dead, especially Arthur.

still no answer to the black cells question I see

literally Le Morte du Arthur

Oswell Whent is dead for sure now. Poor guy.

>this fucking newfag
there's literally a fantasy and science fiction general on there right now where i have been talking asoiaf for a week straight

Imagine how hard it was for him to resist to tap Rhaegar's 'son' twink ass.

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There is no such thing

One of the themes of the books is that things aren’t always as they appear or match the stories people tell about them. Ffs this is driven home over and over and over
Nothing is worse than 70iq fags who say the fun theorizing about the books is “gay shit.” Fuck off and read 50 shades or some other easier to follow shit

It's their autistic, room temperate IQ knee-jerk reaction to any character that is heavy with Mary-sue traits. If they could scramble together a couple more points they'd realize that Rhaegar, as a character, is utilized in one of the best possible ways you can use a Mary-sue when telling a story.

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>Has a white enameled helm with a black bat crest
Love some of the helmet descriptions in those books. Ramsay of all people have a pretty nice set of armor.

This Rhaegar thing and Robert's rebellion is much better than the show. Is it all in the 5 books? Or in other media?

>Rhaegar's son

OH NO NO NO NO NO!

Ashara's a husk of a corpse in Dorne, cope incel

Darkstar is an incel, Ned Dayne is the future.

Speaking of autism, any fan art that has then fighting on foot is plain wrong. Books say they fought to the death on horseback.

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I just want Ashara and Ned to have been tragic lovers. Nothing else. Is that so hard grrm.

We only begrudgingly accept that thread but outside of that it isn't allowed.

The books won’t ever answer what really happened because that’s the point
Like I said, go read something easier to follow, fat brainlet

>A theory is in general a cognition won through thinking.

You were able to recognize similarities between Mance and Arthur Dayne, though these similarities are likely just random.
It is known that wildlings like to double-wield weapons.
Mance Rayder being of the same generation as Arthur Dayne makes sense as well, the NW consists of waves of young recruits and old veterans, of course there are generations with more recruits.

Also, if Arthur Dayne somehow survived, why would he go to the Night's Watch, instead of protecting Rhaegar's brother and sister?

Robert in his youth was a huge gymbro chad. Massive, Mountain-level strength, the works.

Cersei even thought at one point that hopefully it wouldn't be too bad, except Robert in all his prime fit glory came to the bedchamber drunk, didn't finish before passing out, and muttered "Lyanna" during the attempt.

All in the books. The books talk about it all the time, right from the start. The show ignored it almost completely for at least the first 5 seasons because they didn't want to do flashbacks, then realized they fucked up because it's extremely important. So they lazily just had Bran watch shit.

>start to feel bad about Elia
>remember this:

>Elia met Baelor Hightower, whom she liked most of all her suitors. She had been half in love with him, until he farted in the presence of both her and Oberyn, leading to Oberyn naming him "Baelor Breakwind". Elia could not look at him without laughing afterwards.
Based Mountain btfo another thot from Westeros

hinestly I found it before I had even started reading the books.
>see video about Ned Stark getting executed
>start looking more into if is worth investing the time
>litteraly the first the first the first ASOIF forum folder has R+L=J
Honestly I kind of hate it and found it retared how book based on subversion of old fantasy tropes should have ended with not!Aragon taking the throne

That's Brandon Sand to you, peasant

You know, I always thought if he ends up being anybody, it would be the real Aegon. But what if he's Ned and Ashara's kid?

The Baratheons are big in the books. Robert at 6'6 and Renly and Stannis towering over most as well. I think Davos notes Edric Storm is tall for his age too. So it's kind of funny when they're all medium height in the show, with Robert, Stannis, and Renly being just a fatty, average build, and scrawny twink, respectively.

They already are, even though she's still alive being some big tittied bitch on a raft.

Why did you even allow it, and how long did the threadmaker suck mod cock in the irc before it was even allowed? Used to be more elitist.

Now, I reckon that Yea Forums has levels of sophistication that exceed those of rather simple-minded boards such as Yea Forums.

Would an ASoIaF-general be that insulting to the eye?

>Jon and Daenerys
not canon in the books

Moral of the story everyone and everything got fucked and a bunch of people died because a woman could not keep her legs closed.

I accept your surrender

He would have also being immediately recognized at the wall by the countless other targ supporters who would have been sent to the wall as punishment.

so based Bobbi.B is Guts?

Yes.
If you don't understand why, you are part of the problem.

To solve the genre fic question and to stop retards stumbling in and asking uh should I read asoif? If LOTR good? Just like they continually do now.
genre fic = retarded

I accept yours

This faggot white-hair prettyboy fucked my tomboy girlfriend. What do I do?
.t Robert Baratheon

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That's also too long a period of time. It needs to be something shorter like a single chapter in history. Robert's rebellion is a good pick but there's lots of other cool shit as well. The worst thing they could do is to try and adapt the mythic era of the first men.

>Yea Forums has levels of sophistication that exceed those of rather simple-minded boards such as Yea Forums
remember that time they got a cute book reviewer to abandon youtube because they were creeping on her so much

yes you plebe fuck, keep it in the fantasy general where you will have to do battle with Gene Wolfe fags, Borges fags and folklorists for posting space and attention, it will be a true test whether your genre shit is thick enough to hold attention

Robert don't look !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I always assumed they both fell off their horses and that's why they're fighting on the ground. Do the books specify that Robert killed him on horseback or do they just day they fought on horseback?

The worst thing they could do is Roberts Rebellion, to be honest. I would prefer literally anything else. Not actually experiencing Robert's Rebellion from an objective stand-point is one of the main foundations of the entire series.

Rhaegar slipped on a mud, nigga was a great fighter on tournaments and not a real battle.

Thing is it's not just Arthur Dayne. There is a striking resemblance between the 3 knights and Mance/Qhorin/Tormund. Like you said it may be just random, but it's worth thinking about. And theories are fun.
Now Arthur and the others would have joined the Night's Watch to prepare for the war against the white walkers, while the prince that was promised (Aegon) grows up. Ned would have been helping them and working with them all along.

He only trained to be a great fighter because something he read convinced him he needed to be, he was never interested in it outside of that. If he was born with a warrior's mindset he would have been the undeniable GOAT. As it stands he was almost on the level of Dayne, better than Barristan and likely on par with Robert.

Robert's rebellion is pretty well documented because it was fairly recent. Sure there were some secrets people kept, but for the most part it's cut and dry. Your point however is exactly why I think adapting the early histories would be dumb. Those actually are very mysterious and mere legends that have never been fully confirmed.

I always figured rheagar was good, but his kingsguard let him win so he could crown lyanna.

Brandon Sand???? Darkstars Name is Gerold Dayne and Ned Dayne is named Edric Dayne but he goes by Ned.

I took it as him being a better tournament fighter than Dayne specifically, but Dayne would most definitely kill his ass in a real fight to the death. When it comes to Robert I like to think they were on the same level, but there had to be a winner and there had to be a loser. Rhaegar lost.

Both are dead, Ashara is dead, Brandon Sand carries House Dayne's honor now.

That's why I said dominated you fag

Well, I can't really understand why Arthur/Mance wouldn't just be open to Aegon, it's not like the Night's Watch is involved in politics besides fighting the Wildlings.

Also, Ned said to Cat there would come a time where he would have to call the banners and march North gainst Mance.

BUT HEY, IT'S JUST A THEORY

Hes probably some subhuman "Brandon fucked and impregnated ashara" user. Like preston.

>yes you plebe fuck, keep it in
>the fantasy general where you will have to do battle with Gene Wolfe fags, Borges fags and folklorists for posting space and attention
Wow that sounds
>it will be a true test whether your genre shit is thick enough to hold attention
That sounds amazing

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>fanfiction
you are the first to go

He also says at the beginning of the first book that they have nothing to fear from Mance Rayder. Could imply that they were allies.
Cat wouldn't be aware of the plan of course and Ned would have to keep up appearances.

Remains dominated implies it was ever raided or flooded with pennyhack threads and prevailed. It was never flooded with genre. The closest would be self-help mystical shit like Kabbalah and Rennaissance-era Occultism which was quelled.
>Classics
are a meme

>Possible the greatest and most loyal knight who ever lived
>Breaks his Kingsguard oath
>Goes to the wall in shame
>Breaks his Night's Watch Oath too
>Becomes king of a bunch of retards

Would be terrible to be honest.

So Mance went to Winterfell as musician, in order to discuss with Ned?
Is that when he chose to send Jon to the Night's Watch?

>implying a bandit will ever be allowed to inherit
dead, dead, dead

Arthur Dayne is dead, stop reading fanfic

Don't forget that they could've prevented war by just appearing in court together, or just having Lyanna send a raven that she is fine and Rhaegar sending a raven to release brandon.
The Starks would be more disappointed than mad, but without the deaths of Brandon and Rickard, and without the belief that poor Lyanna is captured they wouldn't go to war, especially not when Lyanna is now married into the Targaryan family. Bobby would still be mad, but the Vale and Riverlands only joined because of the North and i don't think many of his lords would be happy to go to a war they would most certainly lose just because robert got cucked. He would either have to suck it up, or demand a duel from rhaegar, which could go either way

Jon wasn't sent to the Night's Watch, he went on his own accord.

>Arthur Dayne is dead
That's why I'm questioning the theory.
>reading fanfic
I never did.

What if he was sent there? Maybe by Rhaegar himself to prepare the realm against the whites? Gathering an army of wildlings would be a good way to do it.

Maybe. I don't think Jon joining the watch would have anything to do with it. Ned didn't like and only accepted because Cat, Luwin and Benjen convinced him to.

>Rhaegar sending a raven to release brandon.

Wouldn't have worked. Aerys hated Rhaegar at this point and was constantly being fed lies by people like Varys to sew dissent between the two.