What's the best plot point from the books that wasn't in the show?

Yes but that was mostly in, just executed like shit.

shes just a pretty girl that everyone wants to fuck

Euron=Daario.

Are these memes or did the madman actually write this?

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>The Faceless men having a dragon egg and infiltrating the maester's guild
So is he working for Euron and just getting ready to steal something from the Citadel when Euron start raving the city? It's the only thing I can think of.

>that GRRM blog post where he said that there'd definitely be unicorns, of a fashion
We off to Skagos in Winds, boys.

Mance Rayder = Arthur Dayne

the mad man also wrote a scene where cersei finger fucks her bed warmer, and a scene where dany wakes up in the middle of the night horny and starts masturbating then her servants starts sucking on her tit and fingers her

Euron says the the dragon's egg was useless and implies that's why he gave it to the faceless men as payment to kill Balon. I believe him, to be honest. I think the faceless men have their own agenda separate from his.

It fits.

More likely to have been Qhorin than Mance, which I consider a dumb theory already. Almost as dumb as Mance being Rhaegar, which is the dumbest theory of all.

>favourite character from the books shows up in the show
>they do nothing of note ever

Euron says that he threw it in the sea.

But Qhorin is Oswell Whent

That's right, but there some sort of vision someone has that implies he gave it to the faceless men as payment to kill Balon. I can't remember it exactly.

we already saw a unicorn in the book. lord of bones is riding one when he catches jon and qhorin

>Faceless Men with their own agenda
>they put value on a dragon egg
>we know the maesters were probably behind the dragons dying out in Westeros because they didn't like them, and probably has the most writings about dragonlore in the world even if they didn't
Are they going to usurp their old masters' place as dragonriders at last?

Varys has shown signs that he could possibly be a faceless man. Perhaps it is part of his plan to get fAegon a dragon of his own.

I'd understand that plan if Dany had been a threat for longer, to undermine the Targ position, but it seems nonsensical to think that the faceless men would have been behind plotting for over a decade to put a fake blackfyre on the Iron Throne. It's not like they'd want any old valyrians on the throne, they'd much rather just have Robert on it.

Besides, if Varys was a faceless man then people wouldn't have seen through his jailor disguise so easily. The theory about him being a blackfyre shaving his hair even makes more sense than him being a faceless man.

Yeah, you're most likely right. It's probably some many faced god agenda.

Shouldn't he have the Targ eyes if he was a Blackfyre? How does that theory explain that?

I should also add.

Whatever the deal is with Jeor's raven talking to Jon. My theory is it's Benjen warging from war beyond the wall to try and relay some sort of important message.

Not him but purple eyes are implied to be related to dragon magic. Maybe being castrated and having the mage use his nuts in the fire got rid of that.

Stoneheart's a dead end. Its a bad story arc.

She exists to possibly kill Little Finger, although I don't expect it. Then she's going to have a change of heart (lol) about Jon and give her immortality to him.

In my mind she exists to give Jon closure. He will kill her and get revenge for all the things she did to him.

Do we even have a clear description of his eye colour? Dunk the lunk didn't see anything odd about Egg's targ eyes before he found out who he really was though, so there's definitely a precedent of people not noticing the eyes when it isn't paired with the white hair.

She exists to show again how contradicting oaths put you in an impossible position which leads to Brienne killing her and becoming just like Jaime.

Wiki didn't say anything but if that were the case it would be really dishonest and bad writing.

>Benjen
>not Bloodraven
Come on. It's an old raven owned by the Lord Commander, the title Bloodraven had before he fucked off to be a tree. What better way to keep check on your old responsibilities?

>"caw, Jon beware caw"
>cute birb, here's some corn

>implying she isn't a moonsinger priestess

I never thought of it like that, I feel like he would have better control over the raven if it was him though. I like to think the reason Benjen went to the wall to begin with was because of having the ability to warg.

Also going to give Jaime a trial and make him confront his past mistakes concerning the Starks

Jaime will kill her so Brienne doesn't have to become like him

Does Jon have purple eyes?

Jon isn't a targaryen

No. Him and Arya are the only two that actually looks like Starks. The rest look like Tully's. Jon looks the most like a Stark.

>it would be really dishonest and bad writing.
Why? They're POV chapters, we only see what the characters see, and the eye colours have always been rather vague. If you know the person is a Targ or Dayne you'll look for it and see it, but otherwise you might think it's some other colour. Dunk described Egg's eyes as a different colour, until he knew he was a Targ and realised what colour they clearly were, calling himself stupid for not seeing it sooner. Why would any of the characters who have met Varys think to even note the eye-colour of the spider, much less see that they're violet? Especially with how flamboyantly he dresses and smells at court, which is obviously a way to draw attention to those things, for whatever reason he might have. The reason might be to draw the eyes away from his eye-colour.

Jon's eyes are grey. He's described as the perfect copy of Ned.

You'd think with how large and autistic the GoT fanbase is there'd be some sort of infograph with descriptions of all the changes made between the show and the books.
Someone make it

Victarion

GRRM refused to write more episodes for the show after D&D said they wouldn't include her.

Citation needed

Jons journey on the great ranging with stonesnake and squire was absolute kino, show fucked it up and omitted all of it that was worth adapting and a true adventure

Everything about Stannis that they dropped or changed

Young griff taking the stormlands is definitely huge, not to mention Kevan’s real death and the possibility of blackfyres

Arianne’s big dark nipples

Sansa trying to seduce Harold Arryn, 10x better than her tryhard feminist story in the show

Motherfucking BASEDraven being the greenseer

Everything Euron related, Valyrian steel armor hypes me to no end

Tyrion becoming a villain, or at least extremely cruel

Based Garlan Tyrell

Stoneheart as others have said

The actual usefulness of direwolves, and both Robb and Jon warging into them at their deaths

And finally/most importantly, good writing and lack of Jewish interference

Oh and sexy purple/violet contacts for Daenerys and Viserys

Jaime's character development.

I wonder how many GoT fans will consider the show ending the true ending when GRRM dies.

The last episode GRRM wrote was Season 2 episode 9. Lady Stoneheart would only have appeared in what? Season 4? 5?

>Based Garlan Tyrell

Him and his other brother are going to get swiftly murderkilled by Euron and his fleet. Loras is the only Tyrell brother who is in a really unpredictable situation right now that interests me greatly.

Probably 90% of them because he will die before he finishes the books.

I’d much rather Loras and Willas die and based Garlan take over the reach. But yeah they’re about to get blown the fuck out by Euron, Damphair’s preview chapter from winds about Euron is 10/10 dark magic kino

False

GRRM's wrote Joffrey's Wedding in Season 4, that was his last ep.

What if the Maesters want to bring dragons back but use them as some sort of control where the learned elite could rule rather than having the rulers be Targs? Could be why they've taken the eggs.

Really? I didn't know he wrote this one

>both Robb and Jon warging into them at their deaths
Friendly reminder that the death of Grey Wind is merely Frey propaganda. Loyal Raynald let him loose and they escaped. Jon's vision of a blood-speckled direwolf with sad eyes showed Grey Wind after having killed his way free, sad over his master's death. The head sewed on Robb's body was a regular hound or wolf's. I'm pretty sure someone even remarks that it looks smaller than they expected.

What the stone Dragon is. Perhaps it's greyscale.

On a possibly related note, what the smoke dragon (or whatever the fuck it was) that rose from the ashes of Winterfell in book 2 is.

Jon is Ned's real son with that Dayne slut.

I think the maesters don't like magic and dragons is because anyone can rule with them. Sure, today the maesters might rule with a dragon, but tomorrow it'll be someone else. Better be rid of it all and make maesters the masters for all time, knowledge reigning supreme.

Drogon fucks Daenerys while Greyworm spears Missandei's asshole, winds of winter

Fuck I completely forgot about aurane waters. Add him to the list

Patchface being a prophet for the Drowned God and whatever the fuck crazy shit he's going to end up being a part of or predicting.

>Darkstar
Shit meme character

George mentioned him as a character of interest in his most recent blog. Shit is gonna get real with him. I hope he's the real Aegon, that would be good fun.

How can Varys be a faceless man when he is a the Merling king?

This is what butthurt haters believe.

Aurane Waters vs Euron is going to be mad shit

>Arianne’s big dark nipples
giv dornish gf

Dany having lesbian sex

Arya getting whipped on her bare ass on several occasions.

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Based Wyman Manderly with his lamprey pies and making Roose truly nervous for the first time.

this is the way GRRM will most likely go because it adds to his thesis statement if even the honorfag Ned had an indiscretion.

You forgot the most important character
I really hope he loses his shit when Melly burns Shireen

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Lady Stoneheart bowling around fucking people up with the brotherhood

It's not an indiscretion because it happened when Catelyn was promised to his brother

Everytime he's mentioned, he gets hyped by other characters.

true but what if he's Brandon's and not Ned's?

There's a 99,9% chance of him dying before finishing the books, but I guarantee you most book fans won't count the series ending as the canon one for the books.

Brandon was a slut, like his sister

I reckon Stoneheart is going to kill the Watch who mutinied Jon as some form of twisted love and not the Freys like everyone believed. She'll realize she never showed Jon any love while living.

The main problem I have with that is the distance it would take to travel. Most people in the BWB are in it to protect/avenge their people. Matching north doesn't accomplish anything for them.

What could have been.

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no, she's in the riverlands. she is not going to have anything to do with the wall plot. shireen will probably be sacrificed to bring him back.

Tysha reveal. Why did they cut it?

>implying he's not Benjen and Lyanna's

The reveal was the impetus which lead Tyrion to become downright homicidal and villainous.
The showrunners didn't want one of their stars into something morally repulsive.

bb

No. GRRM's condition for handing over the rights for D&D to make the show was that they correctly guess who Jon's parents are. R+L=J is happening in the books too.

proofs?

I still can't believe the fat fuck actually thought that was proof that they'd understood the books to the point where they could be trusted with an adaptation. For so many years I thought it meant it couldn't be the obvious explanation, because then he wouldn't have put so much faith on someone knowing it.

He never said what their answer was

this

i assumed at the least D&D gave GRRM a few examples with some decent reasons for all of them

fAegon should have been in the series and portrayed by Harry Lloyd. Would fix 90% of the plotholes

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We know what their answer was because it's in the show.

Sorry, but anyone who makes this face can never be allowed to play a character like that ever again.

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>they actually got it right but changed it for the show to subvert our expectations
>got surprised when everyone acted like they always expected it
That'd be hilarious and just the kind of shit you'd expect from D&D at this point.

That's just speculation from your part

Viserys actor was pretty good tho

I honestly don't think Martin would want the show to spoil the biggest reveal in his story.

Rickon on the Island of Skagos, turning into a feral wolf skinchanger who consumes the flesh of his enemies.

Bruh, old Gods gonna get strong as fuck in the Stark Line.

D&D also seem to fucking hate the "expected" and really seem to dislike jon, so i don't think they'd have passed up the opportunity to make his parents more mundane.

Stay in denial, then.

I'm not denying anything, but you're talking about things you don't know.

Anyone has the edit of the answer just being a huge paycheck?

The fat fuck grossly miscalculated how slow he is at writing and how much they'd cut for TV. He thought he'd have it finished before the show.

>Three huge Frey pies
goddamn that was so satisfying

>Faceless Men and their egg
>the secret Sand Snake
>dragonslaying conspiracy
>Marwyn the Mage
>Mirri Maz Duur connection
>Qyburn connection
>Ironborn vs Hightower showdown
>Euron's plans for the Citadel
Oldtown in general got shafted harder than Dorne.

Based Knight of Seashells

Everything to do with the riverlands. Honestly some of the most important chapters to the entire story take place in those chapters but because DnD don't understand what asoiaf is trying to say they had to exclude them and characters like stoneheart.

You're retarded cunt

Does Rickon do anything in the books?

Who's that again? The little Stark brother? I don't remember him doing anything other than fucking off with Asha and Shaggydog

It serves as a contrast to bran. since all the stark kids are wargs they can go inside their wolves. however it is clear that the kids are becoming more wild due to the wolves' animal state getting to them. Bran has overcome his agressive behaviour, but Rickon hasn't.

Osha takes him away to a crazy island with unicorns in like book 2. Davos is currently going there to find him for some reason I forgot.

Most show watchers think the High Tower is the Citadel probably.

He becomes king Rickon Stark, first of his name, ruler of the cannibals and the unicorns, lord protector of Skaagos, then he joins forces with Dickon to become gay emperors of Essos.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_dog_story

>unicorns
wtf

dont forget leyton hightower who has supposedly been shut up in a tower for a decade studying magic

yeah unicorns you okay user?

Joins up with Dickon and they become gay emperors. Pretty weird place to take it, really.

According to George there are unicorns there that will be featured in the books but they're "not what you expect".

He's turning crazy and gets abducted by cannibals. Davos is sent to rescue him iirc

Goats. They'll be fucking goats.

I expect them to be rhinos and will be very surprised if it's something else.

>no jon and arya warg dreams
>no abominations and jojen paste

>for some reason
To get the North their liege lord back as a price for their allegiance with Stannis.

They're just goats with one horn

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>not what you expect
Looking forward to it

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>revenge for all the things she did to him.
What things? Not wanting to be his mommy?

I thought Quentyn literally was pronounced dead, and confirmed by Barristan. Is there a theory that it's just some random dude's charred body?

>Darkstar
You can just put him in the Dorne box with all the other plots from there that got fucking axed off.

I wanna see Euron's Sphinx fuck up one of Dany's dragon like it probably happened to Balerion when he flew back to Valyria.

>Loras is the only Tyrell brother who is in a really unpredictable situation right now that interests me greatly.
Isn't Loras dying of his wounds?

Of Quentyn's two friends, the normal one is acting completely normal and emotionless despite his friend apparently being killed, while the one who is known to be a great actor is FULL 11/10 hamming up how sad he is that his friend is dead. So Quentyn could probably be alive but I don't know what him being alive actually means,

There's a retarded theory where people think the Tattered Prince was the one who died and not Quentyn, it makes no fucking sense

I wanted Griff too. More than anything else.

Allegedly

Nah, that's just the message he sent back to King's Landing. He's fine. He just told King's Landing he got horrifically burnt seiging Dragonstone so he has an excuse to stay there and prepare for whatever he's planning to do. Probably some part of some whack Tyrell master plan. Dragonstone is infamous for being the launching point of Aegon's invasion of Westeros, which adds further intrigue.

georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/
>I asked them if they knew who Jon Snow’s mother was. Fortunately, they did.
Which means D&D answered correctly that day (or made a lucky guess lol)
They could have changed it for the show on purpose of course, but I doubt it

preston's video is plausible enough

there were more eggs.

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Don't we all?
>While in Meereen, Daenerys muses about Aegon, who would have been the sixth of his name to sit on the Iron Throne. She believes that, had Aegon lived, she might have married him, as he would have been closer to her in age than Viserys.

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Fuck Preston

Did Georgie seriously give his self insert a megadick?

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Also all the Theon at Winterfell, Maderly mysterious deaths saga. Plus rickon and davos and also Stannis still alive.

Rhaegar and his Kingsguard plotting to overthrow Aerys

Yet, they made Dany put the capital in an oven.

Based King Patchface the true ruler of the Seastone Chair

Yes, kinda like that time Chris-chan traced his own cock

>What's the best plot point from the books that wasn't in the show?
The Others and what they want.
I don't fucking know why the show did what it did with them, and I don't mean making them Papa smurfs in medieval biker suits.
Fucking Fatso states "I don't want the series to be objectively external Good Vs objectively external Evil" and what does the show do? Make a bootleg darklord.

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Tyrion's midget GF

Based Shitmouth not in the show

Probably not. Although I would love a burned Loras going on a rampage of King's Landing to get Margaery back. If he is injured he won't recover for years though so there's fuck all chance of that happening

>And finally/most importantly, good writing and lack of Jewish interference

GRRM is jewish you sperg.

>Jons journey on the great ranging with stonesnake and squire was absolute kino, show fucked it up and omitted all of it that was worth adapting and a true adventure
yeah this was such a disappointment. they made qhorin an incompetent idiot who cracked lines about "goat fuckers" like every other minor character

They have said they didn't include it because most show watchers wouldn't remember a conversation that Tyrion had with Shae in Season 1.

After speaking with some casual viewers, they're completely right. No show only watcher knows about Tysha at all.

I have a theory that since Ned Stark married into an Andal house, that the pact with the White Walkers was broken and thus the White Walkers have returned to Westeros.

Originally, the White Walkers signed a ceasefire with the First Men and the Children of the Forest. After several Millenia, only the Starks in the North are or were originally Kings of First Men descent. (Baratheon are Targs, Tyrells, Lannisters, Tullys, Arryn's, etc., are all mixed with Andals or have taken the faith of the Andals. Dorne are former Rhoynar) and the Stark Line has never intermarried with anyone other than First Men, other than that time with the Kings in the Neck (but they were of First Men/Children Stock).

But cue Rickard Stark and Ned Stark having Southron ambitions. Brandon Stark was originally supposed to marry a Dustin, but got changed to the Tullys because of their Father, then Ned had to take their place. So all of Ned's kids are of First Men/Andal Stock, meaning that the pact is now broken since the Line of the First Men is now technically ended. This is doubly so if Jon Snow is from Rhaegar/Lyanna.

But if Jon Snow is from Ned+Ashara, it could mean that the White Walkers are always supposed to keep a Stark on the Throne in Winterfell. Also Ned, being an honorable man, would not have taken liberties with Ashara without marrying her under a Weirwood Tree. If that is so, and Ned never divorced Ashara and only married Catelyn in a sept, in the eyes of the old gods Jon Snow is the one true heir of the North, and Robb, Rickon, etc., are all bastards, and the above could also play out.

So, i believe that the Phrase, "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" means that Jon has to become crowned king in the North.

I also have a theory that the White Walkers intermarried into the Stark Line to enforce the pact, and with Jon Snow not being on the throne in Winterfell they are moving to oust the Usurpers (Catelyn's line) from it.

Yes he has, he confirms it again in his most recent blog post.

If only they had place for a ten minute discussion with Jaime and Tyrion just before that to remind the viewers...

But they had time to call orson scott card a retard though right in the beetle scene

>and what does the show do? Make a bootleg darklord.

He hasn't and never will.

Boltons flaying Stannis

Does it even matter at this point, they spent the next 4 seasons, half the entire series, ruining Tyrions character.

MOTHER

FUCKING

F R E Y P I E

That's an unexpected but sensible comparison.

I have a theory that Planetos is a mobile Kardashev exostructure, sort of like the Death Star but a hundred times larger and shaped as a torus. The Others are the planetship's sentient coolant and R'hollor is the planetship's sentient fuel. The fuelfolk want to fire up the planetship and move its orbit nearer to the sun, killing every biological on the planet while the coolantfolk wants to remain stationary. Neither gives a shit about human races and politics.

This, and everything with Davos at White Harbor.
>The North remembers, Ser Davos. My son is home

The guy pronounced dead was burned beyond recognition, Barry assumed it was Quentyn because he was told it was Quentyn but there was no actual proof. Remember the golden rule, if you don't see them 100% confirmed dead then they probably aren't dead.

It means he gets increased stats for being dragonforged.

>Quentyn APPARENTLY being roasted by a dragon but likely not actually have been

Hi Preston

So who was going around thinking, acting and generally being like Quentyn in the chapter that ended with him getting burnt alive?

>or made a lucky guess
Even back then any google search of Jon Snow would raise both the question and answer. All D&D proved is they had access to the internet.

>t. zoomie

Complete autism on my part, but Robb's wife. Her being a Lannister plant tied the whole Red Wedding plot together so much better.

Imagine posting in got threads and never having a westeros.org forum handle from 1999. Must be like the dumb and deaf trying to enter a normal conversation.

Robb is my nigger in the books. Great character with so many nuances.

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jeyne was not a lannister plant.....

Sansa's plot being changed, and her entire character going from "passive, feminine" to "raging bitch." Book Sansa is passive and feminine, but uses those qualities to her advantage and has a deep inner strength stemming from them.
This, also the Others were way too dead-looking. Book Others are pretty much ice Elves or fae. Tough to pull off but I think they could have made it work.
This too, it was a dumbing down for no real reason, and it changes Robb from a sad wounded drugged-up teen into a moron who just fell for a pretty face.

>swords that fat and their armours aren't different colours
Shitty fanart.

She wasn't a Lannister plant. Her bitch mother was. Jeyne was actually in love with her king.

The chapter ends with him getting hit by flames and screaming. People can survive severe burns. Compare to Cat whose last chapter ends with her actually getting her throat slit open and dying, or Ned actually getting his head cut off, we're with them right up to the second of their death, not cutaways or ambiguity. If Quentyn was dead it would have ended with him writhing and roasting until his body fell limp and he had his last thought.

quentyn being alive is the dumbest theory. he's dead, that's the point of his stupid story

>GRRM goes out of his way to paint one guy as good at acting while the other is shit at it
>then the guy that's good at acting is the one acting bereaved and crying at the death bed, while the other guy just sits there
How the hell is it a retarded theory with that setup? The horn north of the wall being a dragon horn is a more retarded theory.

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Jon Connington is currently my favorite book character and it sucks that they got rid of Young Griff's storyline as well as merge John with Jorah only to have him be friendzoned to death.

Also I will forever be salty about the way the show handled Dorne and how they made based Doran Martell a fucking pussy in the show who was killed off by Oberon's wife who had no significant impact on the rest of the show.

If Brandon and Lyanna didn't die, would Ned have gotten Cersei?

yep

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I want to add
Patchface
Strong Belwas

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No autism needed to get mad over that change. Book!Robb's decision to marry Jeyne as result of sleeping together when he was emotionally compromised and his refusal to father a bastard having seen his mother treatment of Jon was completely in line with his character and the Stark's suicidal sense of honour. Whilst not condonable, the decision was at least understandable and he retained a lot of my sympathy when he was murdered.

Show!Robb on the other hand jumped on the first piece of ass that crossed his path without the excuse of being emotionally compromised (lets not get started on the fucking wedding being by a faith neither of them followed) and then had the bare faced cheek to rub Walder's face in it by turning up with her in tow and pregnant to boot. What a prick. He deserved what he got.

Same result- she was planted by bitch mother.

You're the dumbest theory.

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No, she was gonna marry Oberyn until Tywin went full kike and tried to to jew Aerys into marrying Rhaegar to Cersei.

Jeyne is good girl. She might have cost Robb everything but she's still good.

>hey kids let's avenge Oberyn by murdering his fucking brother
I still don't understand what they were possibly thinking.

make it yourself, you worthless fuck

Thing people who call varys a secret blackfyre seem to forget is that silver hair and purple eyes are considerably more common in book canon that show canon. He's originally from lys where that colour combo is really common, and several houses in dorne and the reach have the colouration.

The point is that having silver hair and purple hair isn't necessarily suspicious, and no one learned lord would bat an eye at someone from the free cities having them

jon does not have purple eyes

Was she? I was under the impression that Tywin started the planning only after he'd been informed by Jeyne's mother what was afoot and realising what had just dropped into his lap.

>tfw try to kill Dany with poisoned locust treats but some smelly brown fat cunt ruins it by eating them all and still doesn't just fucking die

Doran is a pussy in the books. He just lucks out that Aegon shows up and he happens to have a daughter going spare. His original "master plan" was with some old man who had zero power and it was forgotten by literally everyone after he died and Illyrio/Varys continued to prep Aegon.

what does that have to do with what he said?

Belwas would have been a better black token character than Grey Worm

It would have been a pretty simple thing to adapt too, just have the Sand Snakes plot to kill Myrcella and try to get Arianne in on it, Doran imprisons them, explains the plan to Arianne, then sends her to meet Dany.
also cast her

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are you forgetting quentyn?

because jon is a.......targ

no he's not he's a dead

>silver hair and purple eyes are common even amongst non-Targs
>but Jon is a Targ and he doesn't have them
Again, what point are you trying to make here?

People theorize that varys shaves his head to hide silver hair. The point is that he wouldn't need to because a) everyone thinks the blackfyres are dead anyway and b) no one would think it weird that someone from lys would have silver hair

he shaves his head because he wears costumes and its easier to put a wig on with a bald head

>115352019
Idris Elba

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Fair enough, but the 'clue' that people gravitate to is that varys shaves his head to hide silver hair. Their logic is flawed because there's no reason he'd need to shave his head because people might think he's a blackfyre. Aurane waters has silver hair and no one thinks he's a blackfyre or even a targ, even after he nigs cersei's ships, so why would varys be suspect because of it?

>implying they won’t get Sanderson to finish the books if gurm dies
baka

this is kind of why the varys=blackfyre thing never fully made sense to me. he's playing some game beyond just getting aegon on the throne, and it has nothing to do with blackfyre shit.

The entire Dorne plot was basically removed from the story.

To be fair Varys was working around a whole bunch of old Targ kings/princes that were way more paranoid than your average person. Those crazy fuckers probably would have thought Aurane was a blackfyre stealing their ships. Maybe he started shaving back then and just kept up the habit. Then it'd also make sure the readers didn't immediately think of Targs in the first book when having him described. It's not like we got told that plenty of people look like that to begin with.

if they gave dany three dragon eggs
why did they give aegon fuckall?
checkmate pretenders
i love aegon and i want him to have a good ending ;_;

Are the wights really controlled by the others in the books? I dont really remember this

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I think Varys is just trying to put the best king possible on the throne (and if it's a king he holds influence with and can benefit from, even better), fAegon has been trained since birth for the role and out of all potential candidates he easily seems like the best, I think that's enough for Varys. This idea he needs to have some deeper game he's playing is unnecessary.

Jaime's realization of how manipulative and shitty Cersei was his entire life culminating in his absolute disregard for her safety.

I agree with your points and I know it's semantics but Ned doesn't die in his own POV chapter, it's during Arya's. We don't get his last thoughts or anything, but there are a billion characters that witnessed his death so we know it's legit.

Northern conspiracy against the Boltons/Lannisters
>mfw the entire plot line was condensed into Arya's ninja bullshit

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>3 kingsguard at the tower of joy in the show
>2 in the books

confirmed

It's never really explained how the Others raise or manipulate wights, but yeah they are definitely creatures of the Others. If we ever get book 6 Bran should find out a lot more about them.

The Varys and Illyrio Blackfyres theory is a meme only kept alive by show faggots that started reading the books afterwards, since they don't want Young Griff to have a real claim over their preferred meme characters.
It's been made pretty clear that Varys and Illyrio were rat poor and that's how they became friends on the streets trying to survive, I won't say YG is real despite of that but he certainly isn't a Blackfyre.

>a loyal band of retainers who can protect him and teach him everything he needs to learn about ruling Westeros
>the Golden Company
>fuckall
At least they never sent an assassin after Aegon.

Yeah. Varamyr's prologue explores the phenomenon. Varamyr dies and tries warging into a human just as that human was being zombified by a Walker. The warg's mind and the Walker's mind briefly interfaced before pushing the warg's consciousness out from the body. Walkers are more powerful wargs but can only warg into the dead.

it's not only that. his whole interaction with ned when he was in the black cells just doesn't make sense. he tries to persuade ned to take the black. why would he want ned to do that? to delay a war between the starks and lannisters? that doesn't make sense. if they go to war they will kill each other which will make it easier for aegon to come in and take the throne... why would he want to delay a war between those two?

>khalasar of the most khal
PLUS THREE DRAGON EGGS

So are you.

I can't tell if you're being ironic here or not.

Completely irrelevant because Dany pies him off and Illyrio/Varys have Aegon and the Golden Company all ready for her.

im playing, i just want to engage in a discussion
aegon is great, i love how he instantly overtaken Griffin's nest and Storm's end, which is stated to be unconquerable, now if Dorne actually rallies under him....
you reckon Jon will be cured just like Jorah was?
dany should just fucking die from diarrhea
did they just want to include the golden company in the show, or maybe Aegon will end up defending KL from Dany?

They were petrified, those things were over a hundred years old from the time someone stole them from the Targs during a civil war and sold them to the Sea Lord of Braavos.
That fat fuck Illyrio obviously thought they were useless like Euron said about his.

I'm not sure you read that passage right, he tries to warg Thistle and she resists him and kills him, but is driven mad in the process. Thistle then dies and wolf!Varamyr sees her wighted corpse from the ridge. I agree that the wights are warged in some way but I don't think that bit's definitive

cutting aegon was a massive blunder by D&D

Gerold Hightower = Tormund

What would you have Doran do to not be a pussy? If he openly supports Targ reclamation Dorne gets razed. Everything was going to plan until Viserys got crowned, after which he sends Quentyn to try and secure an alliance with Dany, with AriAegon as a backup plan. Doran just isn't a complete fucking brainlet.

Why else would Gurm write a chapter where the metaphysics of a warg and an Other are the two central themes? Proof-of-concept chapters like that are called showcase pieces.
>driven mad
Yeah, by an Other turning her into a puppet

It would be asking too much of audiences to drop in such a massively important character like that right at the end of the series. It was easier to roll him into Dany and Jon.

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He doesn't know Aegon existed until he shows up so don't attribute such a back up plan to him. He was obviously wanting to make moves but he's doing it with the wrong people. He gets lucky and that's it.

I'll admit, when I first read ADWD I thought Aegon's sudden introduction was a bit 'what the actual fuck are you playing at' but having seen the clusterfuck that is the shows ending I'm realising that, presuming that we've roughly seen how the Iron Throne arc will play out, how vital he is to everything actually making sense.

cause they weren't in a position to launch Aegon's invasion at that point

How can an Other trying to warg into someone turn that person mad when that person has to be dead for the Other to be able to warg inside them in the first place?

so varys and illyrio welcome aegon saying fuck you to dany and going to westeros by himself?
or whats their stance

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Doran is far from being a pussy, he is ruthless and calculating. He doesn't even care about who sits on the iron throne as long as he can spill Lannister blood.

That's the point, the wildling didnt become mad, she died

It's heavily foreshadowed in the books that Aegon will be a king loved by the people when mad Dany invades.

Aegon is gonna have Cerseis role from the show. It's so obvious what with "the mummers dragon" stuff that Dany will obsess over.

All of Jon's storyline with Daenerys is going to be Aegon in the books. I'm re-reading Dance at the moment, surprisingly enjoying Daenery's chapters and the whole detective game with the Harpies is actually pretty fun.

Answer the question, dummy, what would you have Doran do other than wait for an opportunity he can seize? Support a Baratheon, the house which overthrew the people he's trying to put back into power? Support the Lannisters, who killed Elia and her kids? Openly support Dany and get Dorne razed to the fucking ground by every other house in Westeros? What's your master plan?

I got the into the books after season one was announced and I think after adwd the one thing I was looking forward to most was your pic related. An utter fucking shame it never saw the light of day

Their plan was to have Dany marry Aegon and have their combined forces invade westeros. However Dany chose to stay in Meereen and then slavers bay declared war on her and she flew off on Drogon. There is now no guarantee that Dany will ever go west and therefore they launched the invasion and Varys killed Kevan and Pycelle before they could restore order

None of that is foreshadowed. Jon Con's Aegon was just the fat fuck's reaction to the entire internet figuring out R + L = J in AGOT two decades ago. Jon Con's Aegon is yet another shitty author's gambit that contributed to his current status of written himself into a corner.

I felt the same about Aegon until I realised he was always Varys' end-game and in that sense he's been influencing things from the start. The entire Essos plot of Dany and her dragons wouldn't even happen without him.

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I honestly think Dany and Viserys never mattered that much, they were nothing more than a diversion. Varys wouldn't have sent assassins to murder her when Robert asked him if she was important to his plan. The endgame was always Aegon

>mfw Jon actually stays dead from night watch stabbings in the books

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How do you think Vary's endgame will end? I think he'll be using Aegon somehow to get rid of the monarchy system

>reddit wasnt around when the fat fuck had autistic fits when pressed about why he had such a straightforward monomythic denouement to his subversive goth fantasy

the thing is they could have just introduced him when we had the sand snakes which was S4 or gave some kind of hint. that gave these idiots 4 seasons to build him and the golden company up and make sense of why we had sand snakes in the first place along with the motives of varys

thats a good point i really like it, thanks m8

I hope this is actually true. Everyone is expecting him to have some Jesus resurrection and it has been hinted at a few times but it would surprise everyone if Jon just stays dead.

Oh, my sweet summer child...

Their full master plan hasn't been fully openly stated, but I think it makes the most sense that originally Varys wanted Westeros and Drogo's Khalesar to weaken each other enough that Aegon could swoosh in with the Golden Company and take over. Remember that Varys sent an assassin to kill Dany. He and Illyrio were never trying to help Viserys and Dany at all. Jorah was never supposed to stop the assassin (Jorah talks about how he was able to return home but chose not to for Dany's sake; letting the assassin kill Dany would have won his pardon, but he was in love with her so saved her instead). Aegon was always their chosen. They only tried to get him to marry Dany when she hatched dragons, something no-one ever saw coming.

I remember reading somewhere that Varys leaving them in Essos was just a wild goose chase for them, Daenerys was never meant to be in the position she was in now nor the dragons were meant to have hatched. The dragons were a huge accident and didn't factor into Vary's plan at all. Does anyone else think George should just write some sci-fi/fantasy/detective novel next? There's a lot of detective elements in ASOIAF and they are really fun to read.

I'm not saying he needs to stop being a pussy. I'm saying you need to stop pretending he's some master manipulator just because he lucked out. If he had balls he would have thrown in with the North or Stannis and not sat around waiting for one girl to decide to turn up, even if she did have dragons.

Who cares? Varys is just another power-seeking player, no matter the myths they tie around their motives. Baelish has more impetus for abolishing hereditary monarchy.

>Does anyone else think George should just write
Yes.

>all these cool theories
>all these masterplans and interlocking motives
>varys' master plan unfolding, arguably one of the biggest move makers in the story
>STILL, nobody has ANY fucking clue what littlefinger really is trying to do
based cia

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He's coming back 100%. What I'm hoping for is that since everyone that comes back loses a part of themselves, he loses his warging and connection to Ghost. I think that would hurt him more than any physical deformity

Young Griff was such a piece of shit plot point. I'm genuinely glad D&D dropped it.

>next
Gurm isn't writing anything from now until the moment he dies, let alone an entirely new sci-fi series

Both Varys and Baelish are probably working towards the same goal just using different methods to reach them.

>Varys trying to kill Dany
>Dothraki being too weak to take all of Westeros alone, but strong enough to leave it in ruins
>Every Essos chapter mentioning how the Golden Company are the most loyal and hard-working mercs in the world, but have recently abandoned all of their contracts and gone dark
>Not foreshadowed

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Solidify his hold on the Vale first and then start worrying about the rest.

do you think its possible to cure Jonny C ;_;

the question also is whether Catelyn drops dead again when Jon snu is revived

Maeshter Pyshelle, you don't get to bring friendsh.

it completely ruins Varys as a character and leads Tyrion's character story into the shit by removing it

So do you think Young Griff will make it to the end game? Will he take elements of Jon's storyline?

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Jon Wargs into Ghost, and Melisandre is at Castle Black.

>if he had balls he'd have allied with the biggest enemies of the people he's trying to put on the throne
You seem to think being smart is being a pussy and having balls is just being a fucking retard.

>when Jon snu is revived
Why would she die because of that?

he's gonna be a combined version of Jon and Cersei

when the soldiers raped the fat barmaid in front of her father

greyjoy arc

Plus having a Dothraki horde sailing to Westeros and murdering everyone doesn't really sound like something Varys would want. He doesn't want to destroy the realm and slaughter innocents.
I think he always planned to get rid of Viserys and Daenerys at some point.

because Beric did when she got revved, so theres a possibility theres a limit on one ress at a time

His mashter plan is putting Harrenhal back on the table.

He's going to fucking die

In the books, Rickon, Osha, and Shaggy Dog fucked off to the island of Skaagos and are still alive in the books. On Skaagos they've got unicorns, wooly rhinos, and cannibal tribes.

Ser Davos is being sent their by the Manderlys to retrieve him at the end of ADwD.

What's the Jamie Cersei targ thing?

>be jon
>steal aegon's arc so you have something to do once dany shows up
>steal stannis arc so you have sommething to do in seasons 5-7

I hope he stays dead too.

I hope they don't have a Jon and Dany romance in the books

chaosh

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Varys presenting Dany with catspaws was to plant Barristan into her confidence. It's such a simple con when a threat and the savior come from the same source.

>Dothraki being too weak to take all of Westeros alone, but strong enough to leave it in ruins
>Every Essos chapter mentioning how the Golden Company are the most loyal and hard-working mercs in the world, but have recently abandoned all of their contracts and gone dark
None of that means patsy Griff will be more loved by the people lmao, he just another exotic Targ pretender throwing in his cap into the chaos bowl. The commonfolk won't give a shit which Targ is which, and the lords sure as shit won't differentiate one invader carving up fertile lands from another.

Except one Targ has dragons.

But that happened because Beric gave her his flamezombie life, I doubt Lady Stonehearth is going to travel to the wall the give the only child in her house she didn't love the kiss of life.

Beric revived her himself though, passing on his life force to her. I don't think Catelyn's life force will be used to fuel Jon's rez.

I think it is a great plot point if combined with the Ashara theories. But it should have been introduced more progressively across many books instead of shoving Aegon into our faces like that.

I'm incredibly excited to see how Davos manages to get Rickon to come with him

Read Dance. Tyrion learns that Tywin got actual cucked by Aerys so there's a chance Jaime and Cersei might be Targ bastards.

He's a Blackfyre. He will take Blackfyre elements from the Dunk & Egg novellas. He will have a Blackfyre's fate, it's so obvious.

A popular theory is their father was the mad king who raped their mom.

They wouldn't make a big deal about marrying Dany to Drogo if they just wanted to get rid of them, Illyrio could have had them killed and gotten rid of the bodies at any point he wanted. Varys kills Kevan specifically because he's stabilising the realm. Varys will definitely let the realm eat itself and let innocents be slaughtered if it suits his purpose. Which fits into the whole idea that originally he wanted Drogo to march on Westeros so Aegon could swoop in while they're weakened and be hailed as the hero king who saved the seven kingdoms.

IS A LADDAH

nevermind im a dumbo, i should do a reread i thought Thoros did and Beric just fell over

>Aegon saving Westeros from a Dothraki invasion won't make him a hero to the people

She's the plot that will show Arya what it is if someone fully gives up to revenge. I like what is happening in the riverlands after the wedding.

but Aegon is still a dumb trigger finger arrogant kid, he doesnt know how to play the game ______________yet______________

he didnt get cucked, aerys just copped a feel

>Aegon is storming KL to wrest it away from the Lannisters only using his mercs, who will be depleted fighting his purported sister's forces
lmao do u even read the shit fantasies you post? This isn't a masterplan, it's a fucking military blunder on par with Dabids. Yes, by all means expend your Targ forces on each other before the real war for the prize even begins

Aegon showed that he learns very quickly after meeting Tyrion and following his advice. And he will have good advisors with Varys and Doran.

Copping a feel is part of the normal Westeros marriage ceremony, Aerys took liberties from that so he did more than just cop a feel so he fucked her.

>lord eddard, im MoC

I JUST WANT THE NEXT FUCKING BOOK

i swear to god sometimes theory fags are the fucking worst. im not saying you user are particularily advocating this, but does any dumbfuck that says jaimie and cersei are aerys kids and not tywins realize that this simultaneously not only completely ruins tywins entire character and arc/ demise, but puts a fat dent into jaimie and cersei's as well as tyrions?
not everyone has to be a fucking targ. not everyone that is crazy is a targ. that just cheapens everything

Having balls is going into business for yourself and your house. He doesn't care about who sits on the throne, just revenge against the Lannister's. If he wasn't a pussy he wouldn't wait for someone else and their army to show up from across the world to help him.

he's going to be beloved by the people after killing Cersei, then Dany will burn Kings Landing down, killing him.

Why is it that when something goes from being relatively niche like ASOIAF to a household name it feels like the quality goes down along with it and becomes incredibly bland and blends in with the rest of mainstream cinema to the point it wasn't originally what it was. What causes this phenomenon.

uuuuuuugh fuck kirins

2020 brother.

I don't think Jaime and Cersei are targaryens.The theory is mostly about Tyrion.

>Securing the support of the current Royal House is more important than having the aid of the most autonomous force in the South

I thought Tywin was smart.

The general populace is retarded and can't understand an intricate story like ASOIAF. There's a mountain of evidence to support this and it's more terrifying the more you think about it.

its been long fucking 13 years already

>He will take Blackfyre elements from the Dunk & Egg novellas.
Speaking of that, where the fuck is that egg and when is it going to hatch? With how the dream about Dunk wearing a white cloak is inevitably going to come true I'm sure the egg is destined to hatch as well, not that silly Egg-was-the-egg shit Brynden tried to explain it away with. Does Brynden have it with him in his little cave, along with his sword? Or does another player have it?

okay, that ruins tywins character even more and completely ruins tyrions as well. seriously, what is it with you people?

On a first reading did you prefer House Stark or Lannister? I preferred Stark but on my re-readings I became more of a Lannister person. You can see George prefers writing them and they have way more depth to them. Not to mention the Starks make way too many fucking dumb decisions.

>What causes this phenomenon.
Masses of retards not shutting up about it because is "the coolest shit ever", which translates as "this is the most popular thing at this moment in time and talking about it nonstop will give me social acceptance".
In other words try to maintain the things you love as obscure as possible.

I'm pretty sure Barthes talks about this at some point, correct? It really is a terrifying phenomenon when you think about it.

I remeber Melisandre talking about wolf boy being a threat to her god but she didn't specify which one

>storming KL
You take the rest of the realm before going at the capital you dumbass. Why do you think Varys is keeping Cersei in power? No-one would argue with Aegon taking it from her after he liberates their homelands.

How does it ruin his character?
Tywin says multiple times that he's not sure if Tyrion is his son. It actually would perfectly explain the "irrational" hatred Tywin has towards Tyrion if he is Aerys's rape bastard son, Tywin was madly in love with his wife.

Varys isn't keeping Cersei in power tho, she's completely powerless at this point

The Starks lost their central minds, Eddard, Catelyn and Robb, early on.
Bran, Arya and Sansa are just in the process of building a new identity.

Lannisters are in the center of power, Tyrion and Jaime get dragged away from it and have to reflect.

You can dislike "Lannisters are Targs" and I don't think it's actually going anywhere in the books but it's certainly written there intentionally.

The problem is that most (not all) of the people that make these theories are just playing Sherlock Holmes for fun, but a chunk of the people that read theories are actual retards that believe in them as if they were confirmed in canon and will fight people over their veracity.
You know who these kind of people remind me of?
Shippers

She wears the crown and sits the throne as Tommen's regent, that's enough for now.

his defining character trait is putting his family name and legacy above all else, its the most important thing to him. his greatest flaw is that despite caring so much about his family, he neglects his three children in critical aspects leading to all three becoming more or less failures to house lannister, fucking everything up and all his plans. his greatest desire led him to bring about his greatest fear. this culminates in the character of his son tyrion, who is most like him, but he cant get over his dwarfdom/"""killing""" his mother, leading tywin to hate him and reject him as his son. for all his talk of family first, tywins hypocrisy leads him to not accept the son most like him with open arms, rejecting the person most likely to have lived up to tywins hopes for securing house lannister as the powerhouse of westeros for generations.
tywins greatest mistake is letting his hypocrisy let tyrion hate him, and ultimately kill him, cementing house lannister's demise at the hands of tywins own mistake.

all of this becomes fucking meaningless if tyrion isnt actually tywins son because it means tywin was actually just correct and a lucky dumnbass rather than wrong and a misguided genius

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>The rest of the realm the size of South America
>Take it with at most 2000 sized battalion
Did any company of Swiss guards manage to take the entirety of western Europe during the Hundred Years War lmao? Do you realize two great houses joining forces would be enough to crush the Golden Company at full strength? Why do you think Varys planned the landing in the stormlands? So they could maximize their medium-sized force and attack the adjacent crownland immediately after stabilizing their beachhead base. fAegon barely has enough military might to defend the stormlands if he were suddenly pressed, he isn't liberating anyone else lol His aunt's forces probably outnumber him by a factor of five, not even counting the dragons.

I really don't see the hard power allure of fAegon's bid for the throne. Gurm threw in so many le rightful ruler traits his way that he basically screams future victim and red herring. He's written to be likeable for impressionable 14-20 year olds.

it's written there as a red herring to give tywin more tinfoil hat reasons to reject tyrion despite tyrion being exactly like tywin. if the son born of joanna's possible fuckery with aerys were jaimie, tywin would immediately disregard the rumors are bullshit and jaimie would just be his son.
god people are so stupid. read a book nigger

Kevan was ruling before Varys killed him. it's now gonna be Mace. Cersei is about to be put on trial by the high sparrow after doing her walk of shame and isn't considered important in KL anymore. She isn't making any decisions, she's the queen mother with no power