At what point did Tony become irredeemable?

This, it's just that character grows on you so you can't see it.
He's the worst type of person, he's not mad, he's not "evil", he's just a selfish miserable prick.

When he got that black cop fired for petty bullshit

Is there any act Tony commits that cannot be justified though? Every supposedly "evil" act that Tony perpetrates is done out of either necessity or has some semblance of justification.

>Murdering Chris
Irredeemable drug addict who threatened Tony's life and his young daughter. Obviously held feelings of resentment towards Tony and was a prime candidate to flip

>Ralphie
Murdered Tracee in cold blood and deserved everything coming to him

>Tony B
Tony killed him to ensure the safety of The rest of his crew. If Tony B wasn't dealt with some other crew member would have been whacked and Tony would have lost all credibility.

There relationship had already fracture but Christopher had been something like a son to him for a long time. Killing him in cold blood like that is I think the moment he goes beyond redemption.
Iconic moment too. Fantastically filmed.

Borrowing money from Hesch and becoming spiteful when pressed on paying it back.

>Is there any act Tony commits that cannot be justified though?
Beating Ron Zellman and driving Irina to drunkdial his wife and break up his marriage. That was a pretty bad idea.

He seemed to be going out of his way to sever all close relationships he had left. I guess that's why his final moments are with his family, the important ones.

Obviously when he murdered Christopher.

Yet you all love Tony. He's evil, but you all love him.

I haven't watched the Sopranos. Is it because Tony is in a way "free?"

>Is there any act Tony commits that cannot be justified though?
Off the top of my head:
Welching on his debts with Hesh.
Going out of his way to sabotage Janice's attempts to be happy.
Beating up and emasculating Zellman in front of Irina and destroying their relationship.

The second he was challenged in therapy, and instead of confronting it, manipulating and exploiting it for his own criminal strategies and his lust for Dr. Melfi.

I wouldn't call that evil though. We've all done stupid and messed up shit when drunk/in love/angry.

David Chase explains the success of the show partly because the mob represents a true real tribe, and people despite having their lives blockaded and controlled by institutions, bureaucracies and corporations, still yearn for a tribal, self-determined existence.

I think people "love" him simply because he grows on them. I don't want to sound melodramatic but of all TV shows ever Sopranos is one of the few that's truly great art. It's like a novel of Dostoyevsky put on screen. Incredible, realistic characters.

Dude get out there's a million big spoilers here.

I still think Chrissy was dead in the car no matter if Tony did it or not. Question is if Tony thought so too. He was supposed to take his spot as boss eventually, but obviously he wasn't a candidate anymore.

And obviously, Gandolfini was a terrific actor.
Tony Soprano feels human. That's why people like him. But he's an awful person.

>Debts to Hesh
That was scummy but it's not exactly evil to try and weasel out of a debt. Hesh was also being very pushy in asking for the money which led Tony to believe their friendship was more out of convenience than actual loyalty.

>stopping Janice from being happy
Buying her Johnny Sac's house and throwing her an engagement party even though he despised Richie doesn't sound like the actions of someone who didn't want her to be happy. Sure he antagonised her at the end of that one episode but I think he just resented her happiness more so than actually attempting to prevent it.

>Murdering Chris
Tony ridiculed Chris for his sobriety and then he kills him for being a drug addict. He chose to disregard Chris' problems and then punish him for them.
>Ralphie
she was a huah
>Tony B
Tony already jeopardized the safety of his crew whenever he felt like it. He killed Tony B because he didn't want his family member tortured. He felt that Tony B was his to do with as he sees fit because they share blood.

He hadn't been in line for boss for a while. He was clearly on the outer by that point with Tony opting to bring Bobby into the fold and grooming him as the number 2.
Even then I doubt Christopher would have died from the accident. He wasn't in great shape but it's likely he would have survived had Tony dialled the extra 1.

>Buying her Johnny Sac's house and throwing her an engagement party even though he despised Richie doesn't sound like the actions of someone who didn't want her to be happy.
Think that's more out of obligation to family, which is big to Tony, than anything else.

Tony B was a totally selfless act and Tony felt like he already ruined his life by skipping out on the job that saw him get sent away for 15 years, he didn't want to condemn him to a gruesome and agonizing death either. Tony gave him too much slack, after the Joey Peeps hit he gave him the casino even though it caused huge issues between NY/NJ.

>Hesh was also being very pushy in asking for the money
Hesh was always there for Tony whenever he needed him. Both them of understood their business involves honoring debts, and it was Tony who chose to be a scumbag and dodge him, when he himself would literally beat it out of others in the same situation.

Oh yeah I forgot about the phone. I dunno it's still kinda ambiguous, he cancels the call right after Chris lets out a super obvious death rattle. But hey we're still talking about it which is why it's a good show.

When melfi stopped seeing tony he went to hesh to vent his feelings. Poor guy had to listen to all that shit

>Muh big bad mafioso boss can’t do wrong, Chris deserved to be murder
Tony did everything wrong. He played every single one of his cards wrong. Everything bad that happens to Tony was entirely his fault as a terrible boss

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LEAVE THE FUCKING COCKSUCKIN CHEESE WHERE IT IS

>he cancels the call right after Chris lets out a super obvious death rattle.
He coughs up blood, not a death rattle. Death rattle is specifically when the body can no longer swallow or cough. He's not in good shape and may have still died, but I think it's likely he would have survived.

He groomed Christopher into the life of crime in the first place and damned him into that life.
Killing Ralph was an idiotic decision by his hand. Ralph only caused the Jackie Jr problem. Season 4 Ginny Sac problem was entirely Paulie’s fault. Ralph didn’t give away sensitive info regarding HUD-scam like Paulie. Tony was a terrible boss.
Tony B was Tony’s fault. Tony B’a fault for not being able to handle regular life. But you’re always supposed to look out for people who held their code of omerta in the can. Tony should have given Blundetto the casino seeing he did it with barely any trouble except grumbling underlings. Tony also told Johnny Sack that the triumvirate was Angelo’s fault when it was his. Johnny placed his crosshairs on Angelo from then on out

Chritopher wasn’t dead. They literally drop a line saying he wouldn’t have he didn’t suffocate on his own blood.

This, I love how dead inside he looks when viewing Tony B's corpse.

Tony was actually the best boss when you look at all the other candidates. No one in his crew could take the reigns. New York was a disaster from the moment Fish Lips died.

Check out "Tony's vicarious patricide" for a great take on all this.

He was bad to his poor mudda.

Tony Soprano came up from Newark at one P.M. on the 8th. He had no grand scheme. No strategy. No agreement with higher authorities. Nothing but a vague longing for past glory, and a generalized wish for a mercy kill against Tony Blundetto. Tony Soprano would serve no sentence for this murder. There would be no eulogies for Tony B, no photographs of his body would be sold in sundries stores, no people would crowd the streets in the rain to see his funeral cortege, no biographies would be written about him, no children named after him, no one would ever pay twenty-five cents to stand in the rooms he grew up in. The shotgun would ignite, and the shot would echo, but Tony Blundetto would only lay on the floor and look at the ceiling, the light going out of his eyes before he could find the right words.

Getting Adriana killed

From season 1 episode 1

this

IT WAS A FUCKIN HOOOO-ORSE

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When he tried to kill his mom

"Irredeemable" is a very vague term. He was always a greedy sociopath just like every other guinea fuck mobster. Very rarely did he exhibit any remorse for his increasingly deplorable actions.

Blame his upbringing, his friends, whatever. He was "irredeemable" long before the start of the show.

I watched that scene. Tony leaving Chris to die was a dick move, but he intervened to have Chris avoid a literal head on collusion which would have killed all four of them(Tony, Chris, the retarded girls driving with a learner's permit)

Am I missing context? Did Tony rig Chris's car to crash? Did he intentionally distract Chris?

also Ralphie attacked Tony's hypocrisy

>it was a fuckin animal, what you fuckin vegetarian now? you eat beef and sausage by the fucking truck load

>you dont care where it comes from when i put a fat envelope of cash in your hands do you?

Tony realised how right Ralphie was and killed him out of frustration of hearing the truth that he is scum, just like him.

Ralphie was a top earner and absolutely based

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>Am I missing context?

Yes like six seasons of it.

Did you miss the part where he puts his phone away after going to dial 911 and suffocates Chris until he stops breathing?

Tony killing based Ralph was when I started to really hate him.

What I'm asking is - besides leaving Chris to die, did Tony in any way intentionally cause or orchestrate that situation

Ah, ok. Yeah, I didn't see the suffocating part. I thought he just didn't call 911.

When he put his mother in a nursing home

But it wasnt just the horse. Tonys been already bothered by ralphies violence towards defenceless beings.

spbp. Italians are the most annoying race desu

never, he was already a murdering gangster before the show's timeline. killing one person is a gang murder already makes you irredeemable and subject to the death penalty in a just society, therefore he never had a chance at any point during the sopranos

The fuck did you think he was doing? Picking his nose?

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Beating his bodyguard was the point of no return.

Giving away the JACK-EEET

Before the start of the show

This

That skank tracee had it coming,she was putting out cigarette buts out on her child.Ralphie was more than justified to bash her skank head in!

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Nah it’s Huezilians

>>Ralphie
>Murdered Tracee in cold blood and deserved everything coming to him
Bro, Ralphie was part of mafia, that girl was no one. He didnt deserve shit.

When he killed Christopher.