Why has "subverting expectations" become such a trend in Hollywood...

Why has "subverting expectations" become such a trend in Hollywood? It's seems like all good story telling has been forgotten by writers who are now more concerned with subverting expectations. Why? When will this trend end?

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Subverting expectations is not a bad thing on its own. The problem comes from writers forgetting to subvert it into something that's still GOOD.

Except the whole problem with Game of Thrones is that it stopped subverting expectations. In fact, that show subverting expectations was exactly what made it stand out both as a book series and a TV series over all the other fantasy alternatives. It used to be a show where a knife in your leg meant you'd be a cripple forever, or that if you did something stupid, you got punished appropriately. Ned Stark is proof of that.

Then in the later seasons, you see badass characters getting slashed 50 times, being surrounded by 10000 zombies and being fine the next time the show cuts back to him. Shit stopped mattered. It became bog-standard fantasy.

TL;DR: Fuck off, Star Wars nerd. You don't know what you're talking about.

it allows them to tell the same story over and over again while using plot twists to generate controversy that work as free advertising.

Well what I dont get is why it’s okay to hate the game of thrones final season but you’re a Nazi incel Russian troll if you hated TLJ

Because you faggots whine too much about tropes and formulas

This

Subverting expectations =/= your dumb theory didn’t come true

based

I attribute it to the gradual death of the writer in hollywood.
Used to be that everything was done in service of a "plot"
an archaic storytelling device through which characters grow change and develop over the course of the story
then at some point hollywood realized they don't have to pay (and perhaps importantly to wait for) someone to write a good story
when they can just
imitate better told stories, and then end with an unexpected twist, and some flashy cgi, and normies will lap that shit up

Because the Game of Thrones still ended with the white males still in control of things.

>arya killing night king
>prophecy not meaning anything

Buzzwords to make NPCs feel like they aren't cattle

I give it a few more years before everyone gets tired of the shtick like before

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>>prophecy not meaning anything
It was barely mentioned in the show at all

This. The real problem with Game of Thrones is that it became generic fantasy instead of thoughtful politics.

The stuff about subverting expectations is a trademark of Game of Thrones and that would have all been fine if the show didn't clearly suffer in writing and character quality when the two hack writers ran out of books to crib from.

>I like Game of Thrones because compared to other things in the fantasy genre, it feels realistic and grounded
>Season 8
>NO I WANT MY CLICHÉD FANTASTICAL AND OPERATIC ENDING WITH EPIC REQUIEMS AND CHOIRS AND BLOOD RED FULL MOONS AND HELL PITS OF FIRES AND THIS IS NOT YET MY FINAL FORM MOMMENTS!

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>Subverting expectations can't be kin-

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a fantasy trope being subverted doesn't instantly make something compelling.
The idea that armor actually works, and that being in the wrong place at the wrong time will actually fuck you (etc.) are not only interesting components of world-building, but they are free from the typical trappings and frustrations of said fantasy story beats. As a result, these "rules" allow them to build upon more down-to-earth themes and arcs, which is what made the series so loved in the first place. Arya leap-frogging past an army of the undead army is in fact antithetical to this philosophy.

The bad guy has stubbed his narrative toe. It's a non-story. There's nothing beneath the surface. You could theoretically argue that "even the biggest evils are subject to chance and chaos", but at a certain point it just becomes a cynical waste of time. Dabid has failed in this respect.

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/thread

they mentioned both azor and cersei's

>reddit souls

People think it makes them smart.

What fucking prophecy lmao, the one in the episode? DABID and Dan literally say that they only made Arya do it because they wanted to subvert the expectation of Jon fulfilling his story.

Subverting expectations is a LOT easier than taking expectations and giving a twist to them.

>wtf why is game of thrones not being the typical Tolkien ripoff
If this show wasn't about not being like the other fantasy girls then Ned Stark would still be alive.

Subverting expectations only works when that subversion fits the narrative better than your expectation.

People seem to have lost sight of that fact. The Red Wedding and Ned Starks death were both subversion of your expectations because traditional fictional tropes dictate that our Hero will always come out on top, but in both of those situations their mistakes had real consequences and when you go back and reread/rewatch the fact that this was coming seems inevitable when viewed in retrospect. That's why those were considered masterful and something like Arya teleporting in to shank the Night King or the Holdo maneuver aren't.

Ned death was huge, but it got great reviews because when people looked back on it and thought about it everything fit and made sense. Same goes with the Red Wedding, people were shocked, people were emotionally distraught, but critics and audiences reflected on it and as it turned out this is a round peg fitting in a round hole and you realize the dream of Robb or Ned somehow making it out alright was the Square peg that woudln't fit.

spbp

There was no subverting expectations in the end for GoT for the final few seasons it was paint by numbers.

>The bad guy has stubbed his narrative toe. It's a non-story.

QFT, and this is what is wrong with the way the show did it, and not any complaints about tactical realism or girl power or whatever dumbshit people on this site say. The night king is a boring characterless character so they couldn't think of any way to kill him off that would be dramatically interesting. So they just have Shanks People Girl shank him (because she knows tricks for shanking people that she learned at Shank People School) and chop the plot off right there, all the undead immediately die with no further ado and the whole plotline becomes totally irrelevant and the focus shifts completely to muh iron throne.

Ironically this is a far worse ending to a fantasy story, and a far worse handling of the "dark lord dies" ending than Lord of the Rings (books not movies, the movies cut this and are the weaker for it).

gigaTHIS

This is what all the hack writers and retards here think. Early GoT didn't subvert expectations, it just made it clear that in its world, actions had consequences. Your expectations might've been subverted when it first happened but if beyond that you were still surprised over our main characters not beating overwhelmin odds, you were just retarded. It wasn't about subverting expectations, it was about being consistent with its own consequences

>I totally saw the red wedding coming
Yeah, whatever, faggot.

FPBP