So here's my take: the political resolution of the narrative was so unsatisfying because the writers did not have a...

So here's my take: the political resolution of the narrative was so unsatisfying because the writers did not have a clear sense of what was politically defective in Westeros to begin with.

If we accept the late medieval setting of the story and the source material, however remote, of the Wars of the Roses (Lannister/Lancaster vs. Stark/York) then the political problem of Westeros should have been the independence of the aristocracy.

Sir John Fortescue's Wars of the Roses-era treatise De Laudibus Legum Angliae famously named this problem "over-mighty subjects," meaning a nobility whose wealth and military power rivalled that of the crown.

In late medieval Europe, the demographic and economic fallout from the Black Death left this stratum grasping and dangerous, squeezing its peasantry and ever pressing for more lands, titles, offices. Crowns that could not satiate these demands often fell prey to them.

This seems like a good description of Westeros: the ruling dynasty was displaced by a coalition of ambitious noble houses. And the new usurper king, uninterested in governance, presided over a long period of political drift and crown indebtedness.

From this perspective, the Targaryen restoration was supposed to stand in for the coming of the Tudors: strong, centralizing Renaissance monarchs who systematically reconstruct royal power and break the independence of the nobility.

Ok, fine. But the political rise of Daenerys Targaryen in Essos was framed in radically emancipatory terms--"breaker of chains." She's John Brown, not Henry Tudor.

This always struck me as a weird Americanism. We are asked to root for her because she is an abolitionist -- the idea being that no one would get morally or politically invested in a would-be royal absolutist.

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But this right here flubs the political diagnosis of Westeros: the real problem of the Seven Kingdoms is feudal anarchy and weak governance. Over-mighty subjects. "Breaking the wheel" requires more government, not less. A stronger crown, not "emancipation."

But the writers, assuming our instinctive liberalism won't allow us to root for absolutism, continue to frame Dany's program as liberation.

And when they can no longer conceal that she's doing more or less exactly what she set out to do, they immediately re-code it as tyranny -- a word that was used repeatedly last night. Again, because we can't root for stronger government.

And once this would-be Caesar is assassinated, we get . . . an elective monarchy, occupied by a man with no spouse or heir. As if the problem this whole time was a strong crown rather than a weak one.

And as the breakaway of the North suggests, this just reinforces the feudal particularism and decentralization plaguing the kingdom(s) to begin with.

The political resolution of the narrative is to formally transform Westeros into a weak, elective monarchy (like Poland) where the crown is more or less entirely subordinated to the landed aristocracy.

Who can all sit around congratulating themselves on their salvation from what in the end was obviously coded as the terrifying "oriental despotism" of Daenerys Targaryen.

Huh. Hadn't thought of it that way. Will certainly keep this in mind.

I'm bumping cos this is pretty well thought out, pasta or not I appreciate the effort behind it.

Whoever wrote it spent more time thinking about it than the writers ever did.

This guy posted it on twitter

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Tudors would have been if Tyrion married Sansa. Targaryens were always fantasy Mongolians

See the thing about England is the Tudors only succeeded in bringing about centralisation for a short time. The Civil Wars showef the power the nobles had over the crown. Where in France Richelieu and Mazarin crushed the nobility, and the Habsburgs in Spain ran a centralised empire, England was ruled by parliament (mostly nobles and rich burghers). never wayched an episode of gane of thrones though[/spoilers]

>But the writers, assuming our instinctive liberalism won't allow us to root for absolutism
its D&Ds liberalism that wouldn't allow them to see dany as anything but bad. The audience, including Yea Forums, was 100% cheering dany on even after she leveled a city

>180 years
>Short

To be fair, 180 years is short for any country in Europe. They have long histories.

Have sex, nerd.

Lol what's this incel nerd shit. GoT sucked because of misogynist white men #notMYqueen #itwasHERturn

Never studied it in depth but it wud be interesting to see who was really in charge during elizabeth's reign.

I'm not reading all this for some shitty sword shit.

>coded as the terrifying "oriental despotism" of Daenerys Targaryen
I mean did you expect anything less given the shows history? The show was never about a war which mirrored the war of the roses.

Jesus fucking Christ cool it with the Reddit spacing. Go the fuck back will you?

This is actually fantastic analysis. There's obviously going to be more war when the time for the next succession comes. Every noble house is going to want one of their own on the thrown and they'll be willing to do anything to make that happen. Or they'll just claim independence like the North. Westeros is destined for more bloody conflict as soon as Bran dies. I feel like I wasted so much time watching this fucking show.

If you're you're talking about centralization under the monarchy and king, then yes, you are absolutely right. But parliament itself, made up of many nobles and burghers, was just another form of centralisation with a different figurehead. It's not like power leaked back out into middle england when cromwell assumed control.

Ok I just realised why americans like got so much, their history books start in 1700 so it's all new to them

>Implying bongs don't love it just as much.

Awesome post bro.

They don't even have an education system, whole country is West Virginia tier education-wise outside of oxcam

Even in American terms, Dany is a combination of Lincoln and Sherman, only she doesn’t have advisors she can trust.

And her Nuremberg Party Day Speech? Take a close look at how it resembles George W. Bush’s 2005 inaugural speech.

The essential function to an abolitionist crown is a strong central government, just as Lincoln understood that defeating the Southern Confederacy would require a reappraisal of the role of the Federal and State governments and their relationship with each other.

The writers COULD have exploited this, but they were lazy fucks. Instead, they chose Muh Crazy Woman gets What’s Coming To Her.

>George W. Bush’s 2005 inaugural speech.

Dubya talked about how he wanted to free the world by conquering the world? Calm down sperg.

Based.

>no one calling this fucker out for Reddit spacing
All of you go back.

>a big part of justifying american foreign policy isn't americans bringing democracy (like daenerys liberating places and them falling apart just like with america's interventions)

I never got this from Daenerys. To me her story went from political pawn in the first couple episodes that she appears in to a smarter less autistic version of her brother. Almost the entire time she's talking about her "birthright", usurpers, and the Targaryen kingdom. Her whole motivation is to build an army and march on Westeros from the beginning. And on her way she does some pretty cold things and to me (and I'm a cynical person) the things she does that are kind or progressive are to gain favor or maintain power. She even has to be counseled to do so on occasion. What I'm saying is the

>But the political rise of Daenerys Targaryen in Essos was framed in radically emancipatory terms--"breaker of chains." She's John Brown

aspect of her persona I NEVER GOT, I barely see where it comes from at all and the people that use that...argument(?) seem delusional towards or willfully ignorant of her motives from the very beginning.

Yes, but being an American, he didn’t say “conquer”. He was giving a convenient post-facto justification for American intervention around. The works in those days.

Within a few years, the policy would be in tatters, and rightfully so.

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Everyone acknowledges that double spacing makes shit easier to read. I’m not going to read a wall of text without spacing. You’re obsessing over something that was common place on Yea Forums 12 years ago like a retard.

nice profile picture fag