Sides with Tony over a girl who truly loved him despite all of the abuse

LOOKED AT THEIR HANDS
LOOKED ALL AROUND
AND THEY SEEMED PLEASED
AT WHAT THEY HAD FOUND

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that scene was so fucking kino, i actually teared up a bit.

he wasn't his capo he was his boss

He spent his time with her showing off how rich his family where. When it turned out hers where richer it stung his pride and he felt inadequate.

They were all psychotic pieces of shit

DON'T DISRESPECT THE PIZZA PARLOR!

It’s a reference to Christopher’s film Cleaver. That’s one of the lines from it.

Tell Phil.

inferiority complex

No, it was in his old script which he threw in the trash, faggot.

sunk cost fallacy
he was a psycho junkie, Tony knew he had to go

He didn't side with Tony. He made the decision based on his own feelings; it had nothing to do with mob loyalty. This is the scene to focus on:

youtube.com/watch?v=LYdeflJaOZI
>Chris is reminded of children and Adrianna's possible inability to conceive
>at 00:29 he sees how miserable the father is
>he's not willing to live that life for her

And interestingly Blanca later goes through the same thing with A.J. where she's intimidated by his family's money.

That scene is a pretty huge redpill on why not get married
kino

You’re supposed to figure out why it Tony becomes worse in season 7. The dialogue is practically screaming to pa attention and figure it out. Tony killed Chrissy to satiate his vicarious patricide brought on by years of blaming everyone but himself and subconsciously blaming his father and surrogate fathers. Junior shooting Tony was the fire that lot the powder keg. Tony sees Chrissy no longer as a nephew but a father of a daughter that will be a bad influence the same way he, his father, and other mentors were.

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Here in the valley

Tony and Paulie fucked up as much and way worse than Christopher ever did you fucking idiot.
>Blundetto incident
>Paulie being the cause of season 4 conflict and Pine Barrens, which by the way Chris stood up for him. And how does Paulie repay him? By stealing from his step father for toasting with a club soda
Did you forget the multiple scenes explaining how you cannot give alcohol to a druggie? And then Tony pours Chrissy a glass of wine RIGHT AFTER Chris explains he has to be disciplined about it. Fucking imbeciles never pay attention

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thechaselounge.net/viewtopic.php?t=2503

didnt you see the scene with him watching this rundown couple with 5 kids in a beat up truck at a gas station?

He is a greedy evil midget, so he couldn't stand living that sort of life even if he has kill Adrianna.

I always thought it was also it was because Adriana couldn’t have kids. Maybe it was both.

HERE IN THE VALLEY
BREAD ON THE TABLE
WORK THROUGH THE DAY
BUT AS LONG AS YOU ARE ABLE
;_;

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He was a junkie fuck up who never had his heart in the life trying to escape to Hollywood

she was infertile from an abortion with another man. Literally worthless wife material

That's what you figure because you don't want to admit it went to shit in the end.
No the real reason is because the show's creators didn't want as a final message that criminals are morally grey.
The big tweest is Tony was a murderous psycho the whole time and played everyone (including the audience) and you're supposed to be wowed by that even though it completely goes against his characterization in the first few seasons.

One my friends wife looks exactly like her and behaves like her too. Damn it's hard to not get a boner, even while talking to her

other responses are good but even without the specifics you didn't notice the building resentment in both of them? it started in the pilot

>Weiner, Winter and Chase wrote nearly the entirety of season 6 and the entire thing for season 6B.One commonality in all their interviews is about Tony’s subconscious and how how you cannot trust what he says
>Doesn’t bother reading the essay so he doesn’t have to refute anything specific
You’re a moron user. I’m sorry

Paulie was a dick, but chrissy shouldnt have mouthed off about his kid infront of the guys

Tony is morally gray, he just has a moral downfall as well as his arc. You just seem upset about how it went

It's a procedural about a maffia guy.
I'm not reading any fucking essays you deluded moron.

I'm not, but I thought it was kind of cheap. I'm fine with how it ended.

He was loyle

he was a junkie he had it coming

He shouldve left for hollywood in s1

I think Christopher realized by that episode that he had made a huge mistake and hated all of his gangster friends, it's why he went back on the drugs

Chris hates the mundanity of the life he has, you think he could stand being a regular schnook? By the time Adriana died, he already knew he had no place in Hollywood, either.

He still was morally grey though, He just started doing a lot of shitty things all at once. If you complied all the things he did before, it's not really that different.
He killed Ralphie over a horse and allowed young strippers to get abused under his care. He ruined both his kids futures from his shitty parenting and even though Carmella is a shallow bitch, He treated her terribly.
His treatment of Chris, Paulie and Bobby wasn't really even that different before season 6.

Chase and other writers layed the basic ground work concepts and themes.
>Tony bottling in his true feelings for Livia causes him to explode with rage when he sees Georgie inability to use a phone. Connecting Georgie to Livia and beating him because he harbors resentment for her
>With Nancy Marchand gone, people switch to Tony’s father with the Satriale incident
>Tony is always blaming everyone else. Basic concept put in place
Weiner comes in at season 5. Pushes for the cryptic test dream while everyone else was against it. Using the preciously established running themes. All he, Winter and Chase has to do is write around that concept and connect scenes together for the final season.
user, it’s really not that difficult

The problem is you think some deep message can only be put in place only if its written from beginning to end, when a television show can do it by just expanding on the already laid ground work from the previous season. Why you think this is so difficult to understand is beyond me. Probably because you’re a brainlet

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>can't spell 'mafia'
>is trying to drop knowledge

am i the only one who finds that annoying?

Wow, you're really bad at explaining yourself.

What scene are you referring to? What is your specific criticism of how the series ended? So far you've said nothing.

in season 6B Tony kinda go nuts and begins contemplating killing everyone close to him, Bobby, Hesh, Paulie, Christopher

Different people, user.

It's completely vague and improvised even if something deeper is what they went for.
Is there actually anywhere the writer explains it? Because otherwise I just have to assume it's people with too much time reading patterns that don't exist.
I read part of that essay that keeps getting posted and I don't see it. 90% of what's in there is pure conjecture.
I'm saying S1-2 Tony has nothing to do with last season Tony. Same thing can be said about House btw.

Tony was a bastard, but he was smart calculative bastard. He had good instincts which allowed him to figure out that Pussy was a rat, that Feetch was gonna be trouble, that Tony B is going to fuck up ect. Like he said in his dream Christopher was a ticking time bomb with his addiction shit.

He wasn't choosing between Tony and Adriana.
He was choosing between living the gangster lifestyle and adriana.

How does it make it any lesser if it was improvised and worked at season by season? Chase told Weiner and Winter how the series would end 2 years beforehand, you think they discussed fuck all in the writers room together? There are 19/21 episodes credited to Chase, Weiner and Winter. All they have to do is expand on one theme of the story that is big anyway. Tony’s story isn’t even that long if you remove the procedural parts you claim somehow removes any intent to the show.
It comes off as incidental at first because its different writers laying the ground work for the previous season. Then Weiner and Winter ties it all up together.

Rewatch every dream sequence of Tony in the car with his dad. Then watch his first introduction with Christopher and his final interaction where Chrissy blares Pink Floyd.

Yeah Tony was a domineering prick, criminal, murderer that so loved his family. It’s crazy how he becomes a domineering prick, criminal, murderer that becomes frustrated with his son because of his inability to be a masculine role model, but also cares and cries for his family. Totally different characters

All you do is double down and say
>its incidental!
But don’t actually provide any counters and refutes to anything. Great job

At no point did he consider killing Hesh or Bobby. They both feared it for good reason but Tony never gave an indication. Tony didn't like Bobby's idea of not paying back Hesh. Killing him is even worse. He absolutely did consider killing Paulie.

>I'm saying S1-2 Tony has nothing to do with last season Tony
Well that's just a silly statement which I'm sure you don't believe. He changed, so yes the Two Tonys are different. But to say that they having nothing to do with each other? Jesus Christ, user... so disrespectful and hyperbolic.

The series started with Tony mowing a guy down with his car while he's clearly getting off on it. You're claiming that was a good guy compared to what came later?

did you guys somehow miss the multiple episodes in season 6 where it's established tony and chris now hate each other

You ever heard of Richard Kulinski the Iceman killer? Most used hitman for the mob, sociopath that just uses his need to murder as a career, but also has an undying love for his family and would never do anything to harm them.

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>At no point did he consider killing Hesh or Bobby.
he definitely considered it

yikes, fine then Sopranos is perfect
AGABAGOO :D

He does consider killing Bobby. Had Bobby laid his hands on not just a made man but the boss of the family in front of other gangsters, he would have been killed. Tony opts to have him commit murder instead as pay back.

Chris never came to terms with it though

Also the whole blood is thicker than shit comes above all else

>but also has an undying love for his family and would never do anything to harm them.
You got that from the mediocre movie they made about him. In reality he beat the shit out of his wife on a regular basis and candidly told his kids that if he ever accidentally killed her he'd have to kill them too. You should actually do some proper research next time instead of believing what Hollywood spoonfed you over the course of two hours.

>tfw grew up poor

I have never hated a fictional character more than AJ, holy shit what a fucking spoiled piece of shit

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>literally spends Tony’s money making a power fantasy about killing him

Fuck Chris honestly

As for Adrianna we all saw him take the Oath, that’s what he agreed too

Alright, my bad. I had no idea. I didn’t watch the movie I was just told that by someone else. You do see Tony being domineering towards AJ though, he slams him into the wall for talking back

I’m glad you can at least admit that a show isn’t terrible just because you didn’t get it the first time and fault a show for being cryptic with the development. Weiner did say that he trusts the audience to figure it out amongst themselves

But Tony agreed to it. And frankly, he owed him it

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youtube.com/watch?v=FIDqurjPXEA
This system's got no balls

I hated Tony by the end of show. It was very satisfying when Bobby kicked his ass. He was such a bully.

It was a Freudian slip, it's funny neither him or Tony realised until others pointed it out.

>It was an idea, who the fuck knows where they come from. Issac Newton invented gravity because some asshole threw an apple at his head

you're a fucking retard, kill yourself

I feel like that was the point

When Dr Melfi turned on Tony I feel like the writers wanted the audience to turn on him too

>he definitely considered it
At no point is there any indication of that. Every scene is available, I remember most of them. All you have to do is actually reference something from the actual series. We know that Tony had a financial reason to kill Hesh. We know that Tony was very angry over the drunken brawl. That does not mean he considered killing either of them. That's your own reading into it. It's worth considering that both Christopher and Paulie compromised Tony 100x worse than Hesh or Bobby ever did.

> Had Bobby laid his hands on not just a made man but the boss of the family in front of other gangsters
Totally different situation. Lacks all context.

>Tony opts to have him commit murder instead as pay back.
Obviously. We can agree on that because the show actually bears it out.
>A.J.
The ultimate pleb-filter, right ahead of Meadow. Some of his scenes were comedic genius:
youtube.com/watch?v=1lo3HAmIp9o

youtube.com/watch?v=biugRUTkh1c
I think this is the scene that made me first start to hate him. It's so obvious that he can't stand someone not being miserable like him

He wouldn't/couldn't hack normal living. Even if he moved, drugs will find him

Chris was always a scumbag. Lousy irresponsible drug addict who should have been killed the first time he majorly fucked up. Tony threatened to kill him but he just couldn't do it, he really did love Chris like he was his own son. He only assist in killing him because the opportunity presented itself so easily after another major fuck-up.

It was a mercy killing and it was too good for him. Probably the best thing Tony ever did for someone.

BASED Tony killing druggie degenerate like a boss

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the thing about tony killing Chris was that he thought he was going to turn rat any day now. The truth is all the ones who turned rat were the "stand up guys" like Big Pussy, Carlo Gervasi and (probably) Patsy.

Everything snapped into place toward the end. It felt like lazy writing the first watch through because it felt like a sudden shift. I couldn't grasp how brilliant it was until I rewatched the series. You hope Tony might become more than what he presents himself to be then you realize that he doesn't want to be anything other than what he presents himself.

Maybe he shouldn’t have taken advantage of a house-broken kid in the first place. He led him into the life because he wanted to relive the Junior-Tony, Dickie-Tony relationship and turn Chris into a criminal. Tony’s the one who made him relapse in The Ride when he poured Chrissy a glass of wine right after he just explained how addicts have to be disciplined and not take alcohol

Chris wanted to be in more than anyone. He was hungry and wanted to be made and was incredibly reckless time and time again to try and prove himself. I don't think Tony is to blame for that.

Tony kept telling him to knock his shit off and to be patient if he really wanted it. He told him the stunts he pulls doesn't help and that he needs to get his shit together. Tony is definitely reluctant to induct the kid right away.

Tony's a scumbag too, not defending him there. Goading him into drinking again was a great demonstration of how much of a piece of shit he is. He lacks empathy on a fundamental level. He loves Chris but he also thinks he's weak, and thinks the best way to deal with that is to make fun of him constantly.

God I need to rewatch this show again.

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What's your favorite joke in The Sopranos?

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Yeah I get it’s also largely Chris’ fault for his downfall but it’s obnoxious whenever I see some moron be so black and white about it. Everybody’s situation had them doomed from the start. It was never going to end well for any of them

Why didin't Tony just whack Vito? What was he really thinking about bringing him back into the crew?

He thought losing his best earner because he sucked dick was pointless but he realised his guys would lose a lot of respect for him if he let Vito live

IIRC Tony ended up reluctantly deciding to clip him

Trying to hold on to the everyday is a gift mindset. It has been dropped multiple fucking times that Vito is the top-earner of NJ-family, did you not catch on to that fact? Tony already murdered Ralph like a fucking dumb fat retard that he is. Vito then proposes a new racket involving a prostitution ring in Atlantic City, still earning while also keeping away from Jersey and leaving the crew alone. It’s a pretty good deal.
youtu.be/kKu14HdgeZA

I don't remember that, maybe he would done that if Phil did not gotten Vito first.

why did everyone freak out so much, going so far as to call Vito a fag? dude was obviously just kidding around.

A lot of the big Tony kills are a conflict between him as a man and him as the boss. He had no problem with Vito being gay, and no real respect for the rules or culture of the mob in themselves, so he sees no reason to kill him, and on some level thinks of himself as being a good guy. He sees the whole matter as stupid, but he's the boss, in no position to just ignore it, especially with Phil exacerbating the problem.

Yeah, he was a comedian

That nose of his. It acts like a natural canopy

>It has been dropped multiple fucking times that Vito is the top-earner of NJ-family, did you not catch on to that fact?
Of course I did you fucking dipshit, maybe you missed the fact that he was a faggot and by protecting him Tony made himself more trouble than worth.

Phil was easily the biggest pain in the ass for Tony in the whole show, at least in his mob life.

Well now you know why Tony tried to side with Vito. You can thank us for spoonfeeding your dumbass

Phil had some real spite and vitriol. I can't recall, did they ever share any positive moments outside the hospital scene? Tony had some degree of friendship with even Johnny, but I don't think he had any other mob relationships like Phil where he couldn't exploit some positive sentiment or leverage him with power.

He didn't want to eat shit from Phil. Sil points this out on a couple different occasions, i think. Tony explains that its impossible to understand what it means to be the boss until you're the boss. Every decision affects every facet of everything else.
Sure, maybe he wanted to whack Vito for sucking cock. But that's exactly what Phil wanted and to do so would be to relent to him.
This is a recurring theme in the show. Everybody wants to be the boss but nobody understands what that encapsulates until they experience it for themselves.

I read somewhere that Phil actually wanted to give Vito a pass but his wife pushed him towards killing him. Now I don’t recall that happening but I do remember that scene where Phil is laying down in his bed not wanting to discuss Vito with his wife. He seems troubled by it, maybe because he’s also stressed about being in such a high position of power and knowing the repercussions of killing a made man from Jersey. His wife keeps bringing up Vito and how he has to face his sins squarely.
We see Tony trying to be nice to Phil during Stage 5. Of course they still hate each other
>look at this, the family of early man
youtu.be/gi8zum6SWf4

meant for

Was Cleaver kino?

I remember the opposite. I seem to remember his wife being chill about it but Phil was vehemently against it. He didn't care if Vito was related to him or what his family had to say about it, he wanted that cock sucker dead. He had the decency to not let his daughter know the truth or how he felt about it.

>Bad ass mafia capo
He'd either end up in jail or dead (which he did) anyway.

Yup, Sil explains to Tony how he doesn’t want to eat shit from Johnny Sack. Same thing applies to the Phil-Vito situation. Tony says
>he’s polishing his reputation as a tough prick for the boss title. He can kill one of my guys and we can’t do anything about it
or something like that.

No, Phil’s wife was completely disgusted with Vito. She wasn’t “chill” with it. She talks about how she was embarrassed meeting with some priest because there was a homo in her family and Phil tries to tell her to shut the fuck up. Then she says
>Vito needs to face his sins SQUARELY

>weak Tony recovering from coma beats Muscles Marinara to a pulp
>gets his ass whooped by Bobby later on
Chase can't do power levels

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Yes, Tony has a fundamental issue with authority, as Silvio deftly observes. A recurring theme.
Nah. Phil was trying to come to terms with it, but the scene where his wife tells him about Father So-and-So's sermon at mass and how he was gonna face judgement for his sins seemed to have put Phil over the top.
>this shit is upsetting my wife, a good Catholic woman

I must have forgotten about that, sounds like its time for a rewatch.

I do recall Phil's wife being more invested in getting Vito punished than Phil was. I think it could be similar to Tony's view, but the matter is more personal to Phil, due to familial ties and his lingering resentment over Blundetto. And I think a key difference between Tony and Phil is their view of the mob, perhaps due to Tony's, I dunno, degree of separation from being outside NYC and the Five Families proper. Tony cares about his humanity. Perhaps less in practice than he lets on, but he clings to the idea that he's more than just a dangerous criminal, he's a family man, a pillar of the community, arbitrator of justice (his perspective) etc. Phil sees this as soft, I think. He's more respectful of the institutions that go with the mob as part of it, even if he potentially disagrees.

Arbiter. You meant arbiter.

AY TONES

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FAIR AND SQUARE

God damn it, I knew I fucked up.

>you realize that he doesn't want to be anything other than what he presents himself
that was blatantly obvious when he refused to go to a behaviourist, brainlet

Reminds me of Tony saying
>irregardless

At least it's not any Little Carmine line.

>Much like a child, a film has many parents.

Meh, he seemed pretty tense about going to see Melfi as it was due to the mobs mentality of seeking help (don't forget that was the grounds for JR to try and kill him.)