Helm's deep VS Battle of Winterfell

One is a movie and one is a TV show

Good job retard

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I actually model and rig 3D figures. The techonolgy has changed so much it is a joke to make realistic and detailed CGI now. Fire up ZBrush, make a normal and/or displacement map, export for Maya or 3DS Max.

Back then CGI was probably 10 times more expensive, D&D have no excuse.

Budget pays for other things than CGI though. Actor/crew salaries, set pieces, material, etc. CGI may have become cheaper but the rest of those things sure didn't.

TV shows like Sopranos look fucking amazing for the most part though.

Shit plot from D&D, fucking "Nothin' personnel, kid" bullshit

What a cop out

>How did a movie from 2002...
I know you're memeing but cinematography hasn't improved since Lawrence of Arabia and in fact has gotten worse.
>Huge breathtaking set pieces are now made in some underground 8x8ft greenscreen studio with Xbox 360 graphic tier backgrounds.

Make it so dark that on max brightness half the screen is pitch black

Helms deep had better plot and story
Winterfell had better audio and visual

have sex, incel

>It's Proschai Livushka episode

Also since everybody just streams there ais literally less Information captured while filming.

lmao
so many of the shots were ripped right from helms deep

also practical effects > CGI
most of the time

What a shit opinion. The music was plebian as fuck. Muh monochromatic piano without any progression.

The autismo demands has an ok video where he spergs about this
Basically it's stylistically designed to be like that. DnD wanted it

It was kinda like they were trying to mimic the action style of Black Hawk Down at times, but then they forgot to hire lighting technicians.

why are you comparing a tv show fight to possibly one of the best fights in cinema

Stop right there fuccboi. I rewatched helms deep after another nostalgic autist like yourself made this arguing point. While yes, lotr didn't have the elements from got that people wring their hands of and refer to as cringe, lotr still has more plot armor, far fetched action sequences, and moments of stupidity than got. No sabre rattling and charging out the throne room like idiots to stick it to those pesky mutt orcs before gandalf bails your limp ass out. The feeling of loss was greater in winterfell than helm's deep, what, some nameless rohan pawns and glittery bowmen got offed? Please.

Did Sopranos have a battle scene with thousands of troops and siege tactics?

I can't remember everything about the Battle of Helm's Deep in the movies, but I do recall that in the books, before Saruman's army arrived at Helm's Deep, some of the Rohan cavalry were horse archer's and while retreating, they shot arrows at any soldier of Saruman's army holding a torch . Was that part of the book in the movie or at least in the deleted scenes?

They could have done what the Rollerball movie did and just shot the episode in night vision.

youtube.com/watch?v=d7Dfi-b-qns

But then all the actors and stunt performers wouldn't be able to see where they were swinging their swords while the crew using the night vision cameras would be able to see everything in the dark.

To be fair Helm's Deep had Legolas snowboarding a shield down a flight of stairs while head shotting orcs.

Lord of the Rings had a shitload more money to spend, not to mention a whole VFX company created specifically to work on the trilogy.

That was cool, except for the part that they were Orcs/Uruk-Hai. Why can't he do the whole sliding down the stairs on the shield while head shoting humans instead of Orcs/Uruk-Hai?

I thought HBO was willing to give as much money and resources that DnD needed to finish the series?

theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/9/18537794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing

Sopranos did a WINTER IS COMING season better than GoT

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>How the fuck did a movie from 2002 have better cinematography and effects than a scene filmed in 2019?

I mean, there are movies from the 80s that have better special effects and cinematography than, for example, Pixels ft. Adam Sandler.

Shut the fuck up, Albert Perex.

no tv show single episode is ever going to have the same budget as a blockbuster movie

are you autismo? you know the dif in budget right?

GoT didn't seem to have that either lol.

>you know the dif in budget right?
>mfw
>LoTR Two Towers 94 millions
>GoT season 8 90 millions

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They weren't trying to make women seem like warrior badasses so it's inherently much less cringey right off the back.

>faggots itt using budget as an excuse while I'm watching The Battle of the Bastard's right now which is absolute kino
Winterfell was just shit

>right off the back

part of the problem was them showing characters in extreme peril that didn't end up dying

several characters somehow survived despite being swarmed by walkers and cornered with little chance of survival

helms deep never did that
the closest they got to that was when Aragorn and Gimli jumped in front of the gate

didn't think anyone was gonna autism on me
*bat

so lotr budget for the whole movie with different huge sets is only 94m while one set of winterfell is 15m
GoT defenders can't get more pathetic

>How the fuck did a movie from 2002 have better cinematography and effects than a scene filmed in 2019?

because although helm's deep was nothing special the "battle of winterfell" is almost aggressively bad

>94 mil in 2002 is actually 130 mil in 2018
>LoTR Two Towers is 3 hours long
>GoT S8 is 7 hours long
So the equivalent budget for GoT would be around 300 mil.

Who at HBO watched Winterfell & thought it was better than Helms Deep?

Are they idiots or just Women going YASSSSSS QUEEN, because there was a lot of hype it was better than Helms Deep

The world is getting worse not better

They thought bigger ultimately meant better

Forget LOTR, GoT had the battle at the wall which was fucking kino. Also battle of the bastards had some nice scenes even with all the stupid shit going on

You'd have a point if episodes like Blackwater didn't absolutely shit on this trashy episode.

Winterfell is the lowest rated battle for a reason. Bastards ended with Jon beating the shit out of Ramsey. If they had the Winterfell mentality, Ramsey would have been beaten by Robyn riding in with the vale knights

Cinematography is the shittiest thing in the business right now

No seriously, it really is. HD Digital has fucked things over more than you would believe. Nothing, nothing looks fucking right. So much CGI is used it's fucking too expensive to fix even minor fuckups unless you are incredibly powerful or have money to waste even more so than usual. Nobody watches daillies anymore so shit slips through or is isn't caught way more than ever before. It's all fucked up. All fucked up.

youtube.com/watch?v=MTqLNzQUdEU

Saw this in theaters when I was like 11, and to this day nothing I have ever seen has been more hype

Those Skeletons going over the walls was some real Jason and the Argonauts shit. Surely they could have knocked up something better with practical effects ?

Digital color grading is one of the worst things to ever happen to cinema

Andrew Lesnie was a cinematography genius, while D&D are useless hacks.

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I don't know much about GoT (I've only seen the first season; I lost interest after they killed off Ned Stark), but did the show start to suck after they passed GRRM and started writing their own stuff? For the past year I've seen people IRL do nothing but complain about GoT.

walkingdeadrollingzombies.webm

Wow! What a battle!

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>Where is the light coming from?
>From the same place as the music.

Based Andrew Lesnie

Wait... was that actually Jorah getting fatally wounded? That is how they showed it?

I could see it but I had to turn my panel up to 100%. It's usually on 15% and that sees everything normally.

I can't see a fucking thing. How could they have done this ? Has a show ever shit itself this hard right at the end ?

The cinematograper's excuse was basically Works on my machine

Go back to plebbit, where you belong.

SeeAnd never come back.

It's all an unfortunate side effect of streaming intra-frame compression, blacks are crushed so hard it all kind of merges into one tone. The broadcast version looked fantastic, and the master file probably looks even better.

ITT: People complaining about Cinematography who don't know the difference between Prores 4444 and a 500Mb torrent.

Then why was it only an issue for this one episode? Just admit the cinematographer fucked up. We all can see the quality control on the show is gargabe now.

It's not just piratefags complaining though.

No. It is all a retarded episode handled by morons and defended by retarded fanbois.
If you create a series, your first job is to make it watchable by all means you use.
And they even failed this.

It's mainly an issue for this episode because of the nature of the episode, it's set entirely at night and part of the theme is stuff appearing from the dark. Fabien Wagner also DP'd tonights episode which looks like it's set mainly in daylight, have a look.

If it's anyone's fault it's the colourist's and producers, there is more than enough range in LOG C Prores 4444 and ARRIRAW to cut together a version similar to how helms deep looked. But yeah, quality control is garbage and they should have seen this was going to be a massive issue.

Streamers and piratefags mostly. And the occasional person watching on a £30 tablet.

I don't know what you're saying no too? I pretty much agree with both your points, they should have caught this issue knowing how many people watch the episode via streaming.

>Streamers and piratefags mostly.
Isn't that like 90% of the people who watch the show, though? I'm a busy man, I stream shit off on demand a couple days after a show airs

The trilogy was filmed between October 1999 and December 2000, with all three films shot at the same time over a period of over 400 days.

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why would you shoot your episode like that then?
when it's known that your main vehicle of distribution will basically ruin your work

Tolkien = educated genius scholar who saw warfare in the trenches of WW1
GRRM = a fat American retard who dodged the draft and has no idea of what medieval warfare was like

If the broadcast version was significantly better than the streaming version we would have had rips from the broadcast by now.
No, the episode was dark as fuck and that's not a fault of mere compression. Compression artifacts don't look like that. The banding and artifacting is 100% the darkness of the episode, which can only be alleviated one way usually, with a high dynamic range rip and monitor.

GRRM didn't write the scene though

So its everyone's fault for suffering from shitty providers and television? Damn, what a great way to make the climax of a tv series.

his point still stands

Stop pretending. He outlined the plot for the writers.

>The broadcast version looked fantastic
Cameraman here, no it didn't and I wanted to throw up watching it

It was DnD at this point, but yes based Tolkien

Saying "this battle happened and it involved these people" isn't the same as actually writing a scene, though. It's just bad filmmaking, and GRRM isn't a film-maker

kys tripfag

Thats exactly my point. Did he describe the battle of the whispering wood? Did he describe the siege of King's Landing, outside of using a massive plot device ala "greek fire wins lol"?

He doenst know how describe battles, which is why he didnt tell the writers how it would go down.

>hurr durr Jon fights Boltons and wins

>we wuz too poor to turn the lights on

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I'm not saying that GRRM understands military tactics, but comparing the Battle of Helm's Deep to the Battle of Winterfell as being representative of their respective writers doesn't make much sense when you realize that Helm's Deep was basically just a footnote in the Two Towers book, and that Winterfell hasn't even been written yet.

Agreed. Music in ep 3 was shit. Have been annoyed at all the people saying it was good. It wasn't.

Pretty much, but streaming infrastructure is shit and has to account for the lowest common denominator.

HBO is primarily a television network, so they have different broadcasts standards to the likes of Netflix. Also DPs aren't gonna be happy if you tell them they can't have any blacks below 15.

Where are you watching broadcast ripped versions? How was it ripped in the first place? Unless you're pulling the file byte for byte you're compressing it further.

Bingo.

Interested to know, how you did watch it? Also what kind of things do you shoot?(:

When did it stop being cool to shoot day for night?

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>Helm's Deep was basically just a footnote in the Two Towers book
Thats untrue, chapter VII "Helm's deep" is not a footnote.

You're telling me the reflected light from his shirt and the ground is sitting as a similar value to stars?

Day for night started looking shit when it started being used like this.

Point is that it's one chapter out of twenty-one, and takes up only 17 pages in the edition I own, but the scene takes up nearly 1/4 of the film's running time. Most of what you see in the film isn't in the book, so you can't credit really credit how well the scene turned out on specific military tactics written by Tolkien, but on the filmmaking itself.

>how did a movie with a proper director have better cinematography than a tv show ?!

/television $ film/ everyone

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>siege tactics
lmao

Hannibal

>but the scene takes up nearly 1/4 of the film's running time
Thats completely untrue. I watched the EE 2 weeks ago and Helm's deep is closer to 10% of running time.

>Most of what you see in the film isn't in the book
Ofcourse not, but he describe a siege, he describes the orcs managing to climb the walls and he describes the soldiers taking refuge in the tunnels and halls. He understood how a siege would play out. Im actually a purist and I didnt like TTT the first time I saw it, that however doesnt mean that they tried their best to adapt the story and the battle.

Now back to the bastards. He charges the enemy force ON FOOT, after his brother gets killed. There is NO excuse for that.

Have sex.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqK1_pm-3GQ

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"Cinema hasn't improved"
Jurassic Park ?

>Now back to the bastards. He charges the enemy force ON FOOT, after his brother gets killed. There is NO excuse for that.

True, but he was at the moment driven by rage I guess. He's clearly not a natural-born leader the way eg Aragorn is. People sometimes do make stupid decisions in the heat of the moment. A lone person making a bad decision isn't bad writing, it's a fact of life.

It's more excusable than for example Dany and all her advisors forgetting that Cersei has ballistas or that Euron exists or that she can just fly up and look for ships. This isn't just one person making a bad decision, it's a lot of supposedly smart people either being dumb or not communicating at all. The reason this season is so dumb is not because some decisions don't make sense but because they've put every intelligent character in Westeros in the same room and yet they still fail to have the collective IQ of a toddler.

It's a 39 minute sequence in a film that's 177 minutes long, which is 22% of its length, which is around a quarter.

>Ofcourse not, but he describe a siege, he describes the orcs managing to climb the walls and he describes the soldiers taking refuge in the tunnels and halls.

GRRM hasn't written anything yet. So where's the basis for comparison? I haven't read TT in years, but I remember it being described in a fairly cursory way, mostly because it doesn't function as the book's climax like it does the film's. They serve two completely different function is both mediums, so when you're comparing Helm's Deep to Winterfell, you're comparing filmmaking, not literature.

the funny/sad thing is the director of this episode was basically like "the lighting isn't wrong, it's everyone's TV settings that are wrong"

because fuck niggers

It's just sad.
They had 2 years of preparation, what did they do ?
What happened ?

it's true though, consumer tvs and monitors are generally calibrated too dark out of the box, and people are too retarded to change it

I get the feeling he expected everyone to have OLED TVs and watch in a darkened room. I mean it looks to me like something that'd only actually work on a cinema screen rather than a TV, like they hit the technical limitations of movie cinematography for TV

the problem is that most tvs ship with "dynamic contrast" settings that crush the blacks to hell

I think video compression is probably a bigger culprit where that's concerned, especially on streaming services.

A few years back I did something for TV and got a note that I had to tone down the red, because red doesn't compress well at all and it would turn out looking not as I had anticipated. And that was a bold colour choice. Here the screen is just slightly differing shades of practically fucking black. You're telling me there was no oversight where someone might say "hang on, this probably won't work too well".

I mean you'd at least think they might put out a small PSA before the episode. Trying to counter-act the darkness while watching it is a nightmare.

>implying a 100 million dollar budget went to a single event within the movie

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