Who was in the wrong?

the first

I'm still impressed by how swole Pitt got for this role.

Achilles for blaming Hector for Patroclus' shenanigans

an act of cowardice against such a legend would destroy the morale and pride of the city.

Helen's titties.

Did ancient Greeks really wear sneakers?

Hector for not ordering his army to launch a volley of arrows at Achilles. Only retards fight in one one battles during a war. Especially when their army has the advantage and fighting one on one has zero advantage.

Philoctetes

N-no homo, right?

way to just ignore military ethos. hey maybe they should have just nuked Afghanistan

actually that wouldnt be so bad

>Hector for not ordering his army to launch a volley of arrows at Achilles. Only retards fight in one one battles during a war.
The entire story is about honour. you clearly did not understand this

Reminder that Boagrius did absolutely nothing wrong.

He has really high skill saves but weak wards

that faggot achillies

Hector is a Prince and General. Risking him for muh honor is stupid, and detrimental to not only the army, but the royal lineage (who would you rather rule, him or Paris?). Actually, I blame Priam. She should have ordered Hector to stay behind the walls, and launched a volley of arrows at Achilles.

Reminder that the Trojans got the last laugh by becoming the Romans and fucking the the Greeks' boipussi

>scenes women and numales will never understand

Paris for thinking with his dick

And the greeks got the last laugh when the romans became greekaboos and they collapsed while the greek part survived

muh honor. fuck off retard.

>the entire thing is about honor

>stealing another mans wife

sorry but the point of the story is beyond you.

Achilles for using cheat codes

>I dont understand the story
Paris was fucked the moment he was chosen to make the choice between Athena, Hera and Aphrodite

if my memory serves me well in the Illiad Hector recognizes Patroclus on the battlefield wearing Achilles' armor but decides to kill him anyway in an attempt to demoralize Achilles' men who were unaware that it was Patroclus and temporalily hold off their assault (or something along those lines)

If he was gonna be immortal why didn't she just drop him in the river?

Also the movie kinda lives up to the legend, considering the first wound he takes is to the heel

he wanted to demoralise Achilles' men by taking Patroclus' body and Achilles' armour. Thats what they fight over

How does that work when the Byzantines called themselves Romans till the very end?

Honourably stealing another mans wife.

Everyone for starting a 10 year war over pussy.

Attached: helen-troy[1].jpg (795x418, 59K)

gotcha

>some fuckboi doesnt elect you as miss olympus
>decide the entire greek knighthood and trojan male population must die
what a cunt

Attached: aphrodite_big.jpg (400x300, 68K)

Chad Bronze Age
Virgin Iron Age

This is why the patriarchy isn't real but also did nothing wrong

Hector for protecting a war starting whore at the expense of his entire city

Then Achilles for letting some fat bitch order him around instead of taking his people and leaving immediately

I have a lot of takes about this movie but Its been a few years since my annual viewing and idr them in detail

Nigga there's nothing honorable about a demi god fighting a human. Why the fuck should Hector put himself in that kind of impossible odds? Would you jump into a swamp and duel a full grown gator for honor?

>maybe they should have just nuked Afghanistan
nah, can't extract the oil after that

>Why the fuck should Hector put himself in that kind of impossible odds?
dont want to repeat myself here but..

Tywin taught us that its better to win the war than be honorable

Hector for losing like an absolute bitch.

>comparing Game of Thrones with The Iliad

Attached: 1555394221133.jpg (600x600, 35K)

not him but I lol'd even though you're dumb

3s duration with 4s CD

>Not having any argument

Checks out

I'd fuck a gator up for sure you'd be surpised.

might as well just suggest why didnt Hector just use a magic wand to win like Harry Potter as well?

whoever made this shit-cunt movie and cast brad pitt was inthe wrong.

>desecrates temple of Apollo
>gets killed by a bow and apollo
Bravo nolan

She was 14 in the story

>we'll never see Achilles chase Hector around the city 3 times

Attached: 1496076782415-1.png (443x478, 199K)

>Achilles can throw spears at the speed of sound, decapitate bronze statues, chop off human legs off with a single swipe, and hit a person so hard they stumble despite blocking his attacks.
Hector stood no chance. He should have rejected Achilles' challenge and shot him down with arrows when he was calling him out. Achilles was still godlike in this "realistic" film adaptation, and it's foolish for any mortal to fight a god.

In this version there are no gods and Achilles, being a Mary Sue, knows this because he’s edgy af, which is why he took offense to the religious bullshit of hector and taunted him. When you see the scene from the attitude that Achilles is an atheist you will find that he was just taking revenge and didn’t really think any gods would do anything to hector.

Greeks had no honor, as proven by how they won, so he shouldn't have accepted the duel.

>In this version there are no gods
whoever signed this off was a retard

>making a smart decision in order to survive and help win a war is the same as using magic
Based retard.

You ask too many questions, just go with it bro.

Lmao at you shitting at Homer, user.
>> Why would Hector fight a demi-god?
>> Why would St George fight a Dragon
>> Why would David fight Golia.
>> Why would the turtle race against the rabbit?
Then you have no story
And you are missing the whole point in Hector, he was a Human that fought a demi-god and lost. Then 2500/2800 after Homer told his story you can still have anons discuss his bravery/stupidity

based

Myceneans literally built their civilization on piracy and conquest. And unironically they were based as fuck desu.

> making a smart decision
If you want smart person you have ulysses

except those people fought impossible odds because they had too. They didn't step out from behind impenetrable walls during a war they were winning and decide, eh fuck it why not. If David had a gatling gun and a giant city wall to hide behind, he motherfucking would have used the gatling gun.

also
>then you have no story
>turn your brain off bro!

Ulysses is just a Gary Stu

His actions have consequences though

>> Just throw arrows at him bro!

so would getting his ass fucked in hades

Athena was a cunt
Hector was the best man of all sides

The Greeks were in the wrong of course.

Attached: 8F0B78B2-AD77-4A8B-86F3-89FB8506F25F.png (700x1007, 801K)

but the mother of aquiles is protrayed as a goddes that sees his future tho

Poisoned arrow

based pedo greeks

>Guys, the war was fought over Helen!
Helen was an excuse for them to go to war. They all wanted war.

Virgil's fanfiction isn't canon, faggvt

There's a reason why only Minabro and Helen have the happy ending on all of this.

Don't say you like the the movie, until you've read the manga

Attached: A1sXol13HML.jpg (1769x2560, 1.09M)

I did
Achilles is a cunt

Says the kleos-less virgin.

in the Illiad it's clearly stated that Achilles glory is purely a gift of the gods because of his goddess mother and honored father

Just up Gorgias. She was a disloyal whore and all of greece agrees

What does Helen of Troy's butthole smell like?

Attached: tony.jpg (240x285, 10K)

FUCK THE GODS

FUCK ACHILLES

AND FUCK THE GREEK

magic water from myth but in reality he really had good tough bodyarmor but no leg armor

ask the dead if honor mattered

Like salty sacks of coinage dipped in the Aegean.

>but Homer's is
:^)

It wasn't over pussy you dumb nigger pussy was just the excuse.

Is Orlando Bloom an acceptable answer? Didn't his character pretty much cause this movie to happen?

>there are no gods in this version
wasnt there a scene where achilles mother suddenly teleported to the beach the night hector or was it patroclus i dont remember was killed

if i was hector i woulda just had a gun and blown that cunt away

Realtalk though
Athena>Hera>>>>>trash>>>>aphrodite
dont @ me

>Hector still in-use as a name into modernity
>nobody named Achilles ever since
who really won

How is the OG Epic fanfiction?

yeah but he got a tendon named after him
you cant fuck up your hector can you

Achilles has a muscle named after him.

It was fanfic at one point, just because it's the most popular fanfic doesn't give it some holier than though status among a collection of legends

>both were heroic and admirable yet fatally flawed

2000 years later we still can't best the Greeks. They pretty much wrote the book on narrative drama

(interestingly, while Achilles was the archetype hero for most Greeks, the Athenians preferred the more cerebral Theseus)

Based

VirgiN was so ashamed of his fanfic that he wanted the manuscript burnt after his death.

I wonder if Hector plowed her.

>still believing that Homer was real
>still believing that a blind man wrote both those capeshit tales

>wtf bros he’s got hacks fuck this is out
>dude it’s me Athena I got you
>ok bro.
>lol jk fuck you

Brian Cox is so based in this film

>why didn't she just drop him in the river?
We're talking about a deep, dark, flowing river here, not a shallow pond. If she dropped him in as a baby, he'd die.

>water makes you invincibile
>if he dropped him in the water he would have died

t. Hephaestus

best thread in weeks
thanks Yea Forums bros for joining in

the movie, what a garbage piece of shit

Watch Helen of Troy instead, zoomer.

Np

In the kino, he is shot in the abdomen as well as his heel. He pulls out all the arrows but the one in his heel before collapsing, probably leading to the legend spreading among the Greek troops.

I don't know about the Illiad'd story, but in the movie she was really just used as an excuse to invade.

It was a dip, not a drowning.

Livy's fanfiction is.

the Hector vs Achilles fight was amazing wish it was just a bit longer and less one sided

The river leads to the underworld if you fall in you aint getting out

GoT happened after J.C., Illiad before

Greek mythology is the capeshit of ancient times. You faggots are no better than the normies who obsess over the Avengers. It's literally the same shit. Quit it, you nerds.

t. Alitafag

You just like to complain about everything?

Attached: havsex.png (1165x673, 790K)

Unironically Paris in both the movie and the original myths.
Eris is the ultimate cause in the myths but chaos is kind of her job and all the Greek gods are always dicks who just sit around fucking over humans for fun so it's expected they're evil shits.
Diomedes most based in original Illiad.

> but the mother of aquiles is protrayed as a goddess
No, she isn't. She's just a regular human in the film.

> that sees his future tho
It's not implied she is a goddess, just that she's making predictions.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I'M SORRY ACHILLES
LET ME KEEP MY LIFE, A-AT LEAST LET KEEP MY CITY
SS-SAVE ME ZUES-SAMA

Attached: 89q0M3c.jpg (398x462, 85K)

Bros, why hasn't Eric Bana been in more stuff?

why did hector send those men as a cannon fodder on the beach?

Hulk killed his career

have you even read the Illiad?

is the "Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts!" meme still true? are modern Greeks gypsy-tier liars and cheats?

The real answer is that's just a cute and witty little story detail for ancient oral myths not that she had a logical reason for missing the heel. Logically she could have switched to the other heel and dunked again for the "full coat." There was no "no double dipping" River Styx rule.

"He was such a genius in writing for his contemporaries with depth and poetry and the entertainment," Wolfgang Petersen says magnanimously. "It's very, very good. I think if he would have looked down on us today, I think that he would smile and he would say: 'Take the gods out.' ". The screenplay was written by noneother than David Benioff. They removed the gods from the film. So, although they might hint at it here and there, the gods simply do not exist in this film.

Stfu Tourko

It's actually the opposite. While there are no gods shown, Achilles tells Briseis he's seen the gods in the movie. He just says they aren't worth worshipping. It still is implied his mother is immortal. What Achilles says even makes sense: in the original myths, the gods are huge dicks and fickle as fuck. Counting on them for help is stupid.

Basically it's because Achilles knows they are real and what they're like, he knows worshipping them is idiotic.

why aren't kinos like this made anymore?

capeshit

how the fuck did the sword go through the armor???? Achilles should have sliced his throat instead wtf is hollywood doing

>capeshit of ancient times
that would be celt myths and scandinavian ones

Achilles is pretty strong.

>Counting on them for help is stupid.
Pretty much, but pissing them off is even more stupid.

Movie armor is almost always shit.

The Director Wolfgang Petersen is quoted as saying: "It's very, very good. I think if he would have looked down on us today, I think that he would smile and he would say: 'Take the gods out.' "
...and literally no gods or goddesses were explicitly shown in the film. Achilles comments could be interpreted as an indication that people are worshipping humans, such as himself and his mother, as if they were gods and that they don't have magical powers, that it's like how people worship cult leaders today for example.
> It still is implied his mother is immortal.
It isn't. The director and the writer are both quoted as saying they were "taking out the gods" from the story. The mother is not implied to be literally immortal or a god.
> What Achilles says even makes sense: in the original myths, the gods are huge dicks and fickle as fuck. Counting on them for help is stupid.
If the film were to include the gods they would have been included, if you read the original story you would know they removed the gods.
> Basically it's because Achilles knows they are real and what they're like, he knows worshipping them is idiotic.
It doesn't imply that gods exist in the film version. If there are any hints it's just a playful nod to the original story. For whatever reason, the film makers removed the gods in the film so that they could focus on the human element and human achievements of Achilles.

Best part of the movie is when Achilles gets pwned by a dweeb archer. LOL!

Achilles is such a cad in this movie it's unbelievable. The sight of him walking into those arrows is so unintentionally funny!

Still can’t believe the same director of this movie also directed Das Boot

>the human element and human achievements of Achilles.
That doesn't really make much sense, given that Achilles is a superhuman demi-god compared to the rest of the cast. As pointed out by this user Achilles performs feats that no one in real life could emulate. That spear throw and metal statue beheading is pretty much Spider-man tier of superstrength.

Would you hang out with Odyessus?

>We'll never get Sean Bean in the Odyssey

FUCK

>That doesn't really make much sense, given that Achilles is a superhuman demi-god compared to the rest of the cast.
It's implied that he is human and one of the greatest warriors to have ever lived. "taking out the gods" would mean that, and it does make sense if you just view Achilles as a Mary Sue character.
> As pointed out by this user Achilles performs feats that no one in real life could emulate.
He is a Mary Sue character. The implication was that he is human and possible greatest warrior/fighter in human history.
> That spear throw and metal statue beheading is pretty much Spider-man tier of superstrength.
It's a movie dude. John Wick does pretty crazy shit. Jason Borne did crazy stuff. Xena did crazy shit. It doesn't mean he was a god. The film makers were trying to convey that he is god-like but still human.

Literally the oldest stories ever told are about one tribe stealing a princess aka prime breeding material and the other tribe fighting to get her back.

Saving the kidnapped princess is a prehistoric benchmark of human affairs.

They're both trash so it makes sense.

>you'll never get Sean Bean being the main character of a 4 hour movie in which he's the ONLY survivor of the journey

Attached: 1552446514637.jpg (1280x720, 80K)

*HUFF* *HUFF*

THE ILIAD WAS JUST CAPESHIT FOR ANCIENT GREEK-

Attached: 1543609977003.jpg (1368x912, 109K)

Paris

I thought the rest of his men died near the end of the journey?

Enough from the clown!

>That spear throw
Some guy on the internet did the actual calculations.

Source: hypertextbook.com/facts/2007/troy.shtml

In summary: The velocity of the spear was 282 m/s or 630 mph -- as fast as a jet airplane. Pretty much impossible for anyone that wasn't Achilles or had his demi-god strength.

Patrician and wise

DIOMEDES A CUTE
Even if he's not in this movie

It's also impossible for anything to cut off a statues head like that with a sword without breaking the sword. Even god-like strength behind the hand of the sword and the sword would have broken before the statue. Literally it would have to be moving at the speed of a meteor to cut off that statues head and by then the sword would just be like molten metal that would probably blow up the statue. You can't deduce that gods exist in this story because the feats of Achilles would not be possible IRL. It's a film. I['ve seen Xena do crazier shit than this, I've seen John Wick and Jason Bourne do crazy shit, Look at Batman in Justice League, it's a movie. Just because a character can do unrealistic things it doesn't prove they are a god.

>tfw no Sean Bean Odysseus adventures movie/series

Feels bad.

If you knowingly help steal another man's wife, you can't call yourself the good guy.

Seriously, who put that rock there?

Your personal interpretation of what Achilles says makes no sense. He says, "The gods envy us" because Achilles and Briseis are mortal, "you will never be as beautiful as you are now" unlike the gods she'll grow old and die. It's clear he's talking about literal gods.
His mother is much more up in the air and only implied at best, but he seems to accept her "future vision" as true.
Yes, the gods aren't in the movie. A ton of things were changed, including to the non-supernatural parts of the movie. But Achilles isn't "an atheist." The gods are irrelevant to the movie's story, that's all. Either they have nothing to do with the Trojan War shit, or whatever invisible influence they have can't be impacted or reasoned with by people, so the humans talking or even thinking about them is pointless. They were taken out of the movie, but Achilles says he knows they exist. Either Achilles is wrong, lying or they don't matter to what's going on, or they do matter but people can't influence them and should stop trying.

>If he was gonna be immortal why didn't she just drop him in the river?

Attached: ebony.gif (320x240, 2.65M)

Even if your skin is impenetrable, you still need freakin' air.

why not use a giant ladel to dip him then

The Director Wolfgang Petersen is quoted as saying: "It's very, very good. I think if he would have looked down on us today, I think that he would smile and he would say: 'Take the gods out.' ". There were no gods depicted in the film. This is not "my interpretation", this is just reality. Achilles talks about the gods, yes, but he refers to them as being worthless and having no power, which I DO THINK implies that they are not real. Sure, that last part is my interpretation, but it's as logical as anything else.
> They were taken out of the movie, but Achilles says he knows they exist.
As what though? As superhuman characters with powers? Or as legends? It's not clear what he is talking about. he doesn't seem to respect or give one single shit about them which seems to indicate he does not really believe in them and they aren't depicted which indicates to me that they don't exist. If he discusses them it could just be in some poetic way of speaking as much as a literal way. It's not clear. What is clear is that the director is quoted as saying he thought to "take the gods out".
> Either Achilles is wrong, lying or they don't matter to what's going on, or they do matter but people can't influence them and should stop trying.
Just because you talk about a god or gods it does not mean you actually literally believe in god.

Edit: I don't think he said the gods have "no power" what I meant was that it was implied he doesn't think they matter and he speaks about them in almost exactly the same way an atheist today would speak of someone praying to god for help in a battle. If he really felt they actually existed why wouldn't he ask for help and assistance? Why would he defy them? That makes literally no sense. If they could just shove a lightning bolt up his ass or take away his powers wouldn't he shut the fuck up? His behavior makes no sense in your interpretation of the story.

>t. faggot zoomer

Shitposting is the capeshit of Yea Forums

>want to read the illad
>people say its hard to read
>people say read the Odyssey instead
>made it through about two chapters
>drops it

someone need to make a movie on this shit.

the illiad is way better

Wrong. The Odyssey is not only better, it's like 10x better. Sad.

Attached: smiles with contempt.jpg (209x242, 6K)

laughably shitty acting

>Hurr durr why didn't Hector just shoot Achilles

Because the God were fucking watching and would punish him tenfold if he pulled a dumb shit move like that, Hector knew the God would fuck over him either so he picked the Honorable way out. Ancient Gods were fucking dicks

I don’t want to make a new thread for this BUT

So John Carter is on Jewflix and I attempted to watch it. Got through maybe the first 20 minutes and was ready to turn it off but I did notice something interesting: Ciarán Hinds and James Purefoy are both in it AND they are both playing roles at least from what I could tell that were similar to their roles in HBO’s Rome. What the fuck? Was it intentional? Do these two like working with each other that much?

Well the Iliad is literally just dozens of pages of people killing each other in gorey details and wracking up insane body counts for a big part of it, I'd say it was edgy pandering but of course ths story was told when that was people's lives and they identified with stabbing enemy soldiers while they stabbed you and your friends to death not loser NEETs dreaming they could do that.

Yes

yep and Caesar and Brutus were the only things good about that trainwreck

Purefoy was Marc Antony but you’re baiting right? Rome is great.

why didn't anyone just fire a storm of arrows at achilles

surely he can't deflect 100 archers at the same time

>He doesn't understand the message of peace that Homer was trying to convey in the Iliad

aw fuck it is quite early in the morning sorry, brain fart

He could step between the arrows if the gods willed it.

>why didn't anyone try to cheap shot the Gods' favourite boy toy ?

I don't know, you tell me user

A dumb war story about a guy with a weak heel and a fight over some dumb whore vs a transformative masculine epic spanning years about dealing with being lost and growth, vengeance and coming full circle in life. It's no contest.

It will be Kino

“My father fought, says Hockenberry, surprised at the memories flooding in.
“Where?” asks Odysseus. “Tell me the battle. I may have been there.”
“Okinawa” says Hockenberry.
“I don’t know of this battle”
“My father survived it,” says Hockenberry, feeling his throat tightening. “He was very young. Nineteen. He was in the marines. He came home later that same year and I was born three years later after that. He never spoke of it.”
“He didn’t brag of his bravery or describe the battle to his boy?” asks Odysseus, incredulous. “No wonder you grew up to be a philosopher rather than a fighter.”

Attached: Dan_Simmons_Ilium.jpg (190x290, 41K)

and no i was talking about John Carter, i fucking love love love HBO's Rome and hate that they cut the show and forced the writer to crammed 3-4 seasons into the mess that was season 2

“He never mentioned it at all,” says Hockenberry.
“Did your father do well in Battle?
“I think he did. He was wounded twice on May 20, 1945 during a fight for a place called Sugar Loaf Hill on the island of Okinawa.”
“I don’t know this island”
“No, you wouldn’t,” said Hockenberry. “It’s far away from Ithaca.”
“Were there many men in this fight?’
“My father’s side had one hundred and eighty-three thousand men ready to be thrown into battle. His army was carried to the island of Okinawa in a fleet of more than sixteen hundred ships. There were a hundred and ten thousand of the enemy waiting for them, dug into the rock and coral and caves.”

Attached: 51nym4gzpsL.jpg (329x500, 44K)

Achilles for being a butthurt faggot bitching at Hector just because his buttbuddy decided to steal his armor and charge into battle
Hector for being an honorable fool and agreeing to 1v1 Achilles rather than laughing from being Troy's walls

“No city to lay siege to,” asks Odysseus, looking at the scholar with an expression of interest for the first time since their conversation began.
“No real city, no. It was just one battle in a bigger war. The other side wanted to kill our people to prevent an invasion of their home island. Our side ended up killing them any way they could -they poured flame into their caves, entombed them alive. My father’s comrades killed more than a hundred thousand of the hundred and ten thousand Japanese on the island.” He takes a drink. “The Japanese were our enemies then.”
“A glorious victory, says Odysseus.
Hockenberry makes a soft noise.
“The numbers involved-men, ships-reminds me of our war for Troy.
“Yes, very similar,” says Hockenverry. “As was the ferocity of the fighting. Hand-to-hand in rain and mud, day and night.”

>b-but muh honor

Attached: trojan horse.jpg (1280x720, 187K)

“Were many of your father’s comrades sent down to the House of Death?”
“Counting both the men fighting on land and at sea, 12,520 Americans were killed,” his scholar’s mind- and his son’s heart-having no trouble recalling the figures. “There were 33,631 wounded on our side. The enemy, as I said, lost more than a hundred thousand dead, thousands and thousands burned to death and entombed in the caves and holes where they dug in to fight.”
“We Achaeans have lost more then twenty-five thousand comrades in front of the walls of Illium,” says Odysseus. “The Trojans have built funeral pyres to at least that many of their own.”
“Yes,” says Hockenberry, with a slight smile, “but that’s over a period of ten years. My father’s battle on the island of Okinawa lasted only ninety days.”
There is a silence

redditors can´t into art

Attached: 1525160155825.gif (265x257, 1.78M)

“I’m surprised I’ve never heard of this war,” says Odysseus, “but still, you must be proud of your father. Your people must have treated the victors in that battle like gods. Songs will be sung of it for centuries around your hearths. The names of the men who fought and died there will be known to the grandsons of the grandsons of the heroes, and the details of every individual combat will be sung by minstrels and poets.”
“Actually,” says Hockenberry, taking a long drink, “almost everyone in my country as forgotten that battle already.”

Based Trojananon

>Hurrrrr fuck dishonourable Trojan dogs hiding behind your walls
>This is totally ok tho :^)

Fuck Greeks

Romans > Greek fucking shits

It's the same in the Iliad, the Greeks want to overtake the territory and trade in the black sea and the aegean.

>All he had to do was to bend the knees

Why was it so hard ?

Attached: f7a7e78f1b62cc0c89c325e978bf8fa5.jpg (640x640, 77K)

Agamemnon didn't give a shit about Helen, he wanted to control the taxation of vessels passing through the Bosporus. Helen's "kidnapping" was just an excuse to give to his people. Everyone hated and resented mighty Troy, that's how the Greeks were able to build such a large coalition. Also, on the supernatural side of things, they had Achilles who was basically indestructible.

Attached: 2F0G-rvh.jpg (246x246, 19K)

Life expectancy was around 40-50 years (at best for the average human) for four+ millennia in recorded human history. Arranged marriages were largely societal and political. A marriage based on love was the exception, and not the rule. Even as a teenager, that was mid-life crisis criteria. Throw in maternal death rates and that of infanticide.

It isn't about pedophilia, that was the reality for the longest time. A fuck-ton of marriages were conducted at ages in pre-teens and abnormally not much further.

It isn't all that scandalous when placed in the context of human development during that era.

Attached: DK-HoT-NSFW.webm (1920x800, 1.28M)

But we can all agree that the biggest piece of shit in the Iliad is Paris, right? Stupid motherfucker caused all this, gets his whole family killed for some slampiece, and doesn't even face any comeuppance himself.

Brad's abs in this movie got me fawnin

The one who died.

Being a whore isn't witchcraft you cuck.

>when the enemy recognizes you better than your own men

Attached: laughing whores.png (449x401, 490K)

So the mother has a fucking powerful hand?

>Life expectancy was around 40-50 years
They factor infant mortality into that figure. People probably lived about as long as they do now back then. They might have even lived longer due to eating a less processed diet. People had arranged marriages because they were smarter back then and knew that stupid kids have no idea how to plan out their lives and that adults are better at arranging this for them. And female empowerment and pushing off marriage and children and having a nuclear family wasn't a thing until relatively recently. People in the past had big houses and big families, they married young and usually had children before they hit 20. It's not because they lived shorter lives it was because it was just the normal way people did shit, we are currently living in the social experiment.

>Achilles talks about the gods, yes, but he refers to them as being worthless
>Just because you talk about a god or gods it does not mean you actually literally believe in god.

Achilles: I know more about the gods than your priests. I've seen them. Do you want to know somthing? The gods envy us. They envy us because we are mortal and any moment can be are last. You will never be more beautiful than you are right now, we will never be here again. Every thing is much more beautiful beacuse we are doomed.

This wasn't exactly a good movie but if they wanted to convey "Achilles is an atheist" he'd say "they're not real" or just not have these lines. It really doesn't matter to the movie, they do fuck all. But it sounds like real gods. Just gods who don't give a fuck and aren't going to do anything. If they're real in this version they just don't give a shit about any of the war bullshit or at least can't be counted on. They can't be counted on in a lot of the original myths either. Apollo especially was standoffish in a lot of his stories and wouldn't give a fuck about his temples getting destroyed, he was more a bland sun personification. In other stories, gods might help or punish their followers depending on their bitchy moods, it depended.

Zeus and Athena for using them as their play toys.

I already covered this, it does not mean he was speaking literally. Everyone around him believes in "the gods", he is trying to get on their level and convey an attitude about how to live. Honestly, I think a lot of the script seems to be influenced by Nietzsche and he seems to be sort of a superman-like character speaking poetically about the gods in a similar way as Nietzsche does, which is another indication that they aren't talking about actual gods. Nietzsche said "god is dead and we have killed him" he's not saying this LITERALLY either. Also, this film was running on the fumes of Gladiator if I'm not mistaken, and Achilles says this he's sort of doing a "what we do in this life echoes in eternity" thing.
> if they wanted to convey "Achilles is an atheist" he'd say "they're not real" or just not have these lines.
I think not showing any gods at all and the director and writer both acknowledging that they removed the gods is sufficient for me. Apparently it isn't for you and you are reading literally into what he says.
> they just don't give a shit about any of the war bullshit
Why not? This doesn't make any sense. In the original story they did. Why would they add them in but not add them in at the same time? This doesn't really add up.
> gods might help or punish their followers depending on their bitchy moods, it depended.
Ok, so he just walks around saying how useless the gods are and talking shit about them the entire time when they can just strike him down and kill him easily? This doesn't make sense. I view it as him saying these things because he knows it's bullshit. He's an edgelord Nietzschean superman character written into the script in place of a god.

Is Troy the TDK of the Illiad? It's like the realistic take on what happened.

He's extraordinarily aryan looking compared to almost everyone else in the script blue eyes, long blonde hair. He follows nobody and does whatever he pleases (self rolling wheel), he is faster and superior to everyone else around him, while everyone else is a drop of water he is lightning, he spits at the idea of the gods and thinks they are garbage and he talks about them in a poetic way. Besting Hector is literally the author showing The Superman besting the "Last Man", the man who still holds onto gods and stupid mythologies and ideas, he's literally talking about this right before he is killed by Achilles and Achilles is mocking him. Yes, this is my interpretation I could be wrong but I don't think gods exist in this world. I think he's just a special little superman snowflake.

That is frankly not true. If you throw aside all forensic anthropology evidence, than sure. Who needs scientific evidence?

>because they were smarter back then
Ahh, the "Golden Age" argument. Most societies yearn for the previous period, because having not experienced, think it was better. That is as old as recorded human history. If you never knew it, how can you objectively testify that it was better?

It seems you are more committed to a positive mindset on how backwards civilization was during the period than believing that it had a true benefit in that contemporary time? Or is it that you'd have a wife that would be subservient to your mindset?

That isn't a jab, but an honest question. With the folks here, I never know.

I mean it wasn't just any pussy. I'd go to war over Diane Kruger's pussy any day haha.

The Achaeans weren't just out for Helen and Paris, they wanted all of Troy to burn. Yeah those two shits started this, but it became an us-v-them fight and when that happens you side with your city and your family.

Who knows? It was a pretty bad movie. Presumably Achilles' divine connections or them just not caring might mean the gods won't touch him. That or these greek gods are more like lovecraftian beings that don't care about people or their wars for whatever reason. The original story was them just being petty and trying to hurt each other by proxy, they didn't give a damn about the people then either. Achilles also talks about the underworld as if it's real and that could be bullshit too, but not building any strong theme there as him being a "none of it is real" guy when taken all together, just not seeing it as worth praying about.
That scene always seemed stupid and pointless to me, but it doesn't really matter if the gods aren't real or if they exist but are hands off and do fuck all, the result is the same. It's a shitty as fuck bunch of lines if atheism is an important thing. I think another character even says "the gods won't fight our wars for us" that's enough. Whether they're real or not, they won't intervene so who cares. Same relevance. Not a great film.

Athena is OP. I mean I don't remember correctly but she kicked Ares' ass multiple times whenever he crossed a line. In fact I've always found this kinda surprising because although the Spartans were vastly superior to Athenians in terms of fighting ability they chose to worship the weaker god of the two.

It was Roman fanfic written 800 years later.

Even thinking you could compare that shit to the Homeric Epics:
Tywin was wrong. He "won" the war with the Red Wedding...for about four months. The moment Robb's head hit the floor he set every single non-Lannister in Westeros plotting to remove him, because it was obvious at that point that the lionshits were out for total domination and could never be trusted again. Even with the tv show's utter botching of this moral, you still had the Dornish rebellion, Stannis, Blackfish's rebellion, Littlefinger's plotting, the Boltons becoming de-facto independent, the Sparrows, the continued Ironborn rebellion under Yara&Theon, Jon&Sansa's rebellion, and the instant somebody else (Dany) showed up with an army half the country switched over to her immediately. The Lannisters will go extinct a few short years after Tywin's "victory" because their dishonorable methods made them so hated that the entire continent literally would not stop rebelling until they were all dead.

> That is frankly not true.
It is true. People lived to 60 - 70 in ancient times and some lived to 100 and even older.
> Most societies yearn for the previous period, because having not experienced, think it was better.
Modern western society has experimented socially so dramatically in the past 100 years its beyond comparison to almost any other age in human history. We have women voting, working, lesbians, gay marriage, multiculturalism, people communicating on electronic devices instantly. We aren't just in any other era, the past 200 years of human history and most of the past 120 has had more development and change than almost every area before it combined.
> If you never knew it, how can you objectively testify that it was better?
Because families were more intact in the past and families are the bedrock of civilization in my opinion.
> Or is it that you'd have a wife that would be subservient to your mindset?
I think society has experimented so dramatically, it's out of control at this point. I already have a subservient wife right now, I never trained her or anything it's just how she is. Anyhow, I care about the world I live in and want it to be healthy. Strong families = a healthier society.

>who would you rather rule, him or Paris?
Nigga Priam had 50 sons, 17 were Hector's full brothers.

>"smart"
see

>Greek(s) write first epic poem to celebrate all the towns and cities of Greece fighting in the greatest war of all time.
>Roman poet ((asked)) to write a poem so Caesar can say he has roots going back to his favorite story

>Greek church
>Greek language
>Greek culture
>Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων
>but they call themselves Roman!

in the book Hector shits himself with fear when outside the walls and knowing Achilles is coming for him and he flees into the desert, at the same time Hera and Athena are both arguing with Zeus over his fate and Zeus finally says enough and claps his hands and seals the order of events forever which causes Apollo who was defending Hector to vanish completely. Athena disguises herself as Hector's brother and appears to him in the desert and says don't worry Hector, we can take on Achilles together, I believe in you, I will hand you your spears, and Hector finally believes in himself thinking his brother is at his side and turns to face Achilles finally and throws a spear which bounces off Achilles armor, he turns to his brother to hand him another spear but there is nobody there, just the vast empty sands. Hector turns back to Achilles and now sees that 8ft flashing eyed Pallas Athene is standing at Achilles' side with her disguise completely off. Hector's stomach falls out and he realizes he has been tricked and is very immediately going to die. Achilles launches a spear that takes Hector through the throat and he falls to his knees. With his last dying breaths as he bleeds out he curses the gods and prophecies Achilles demise, telling that he has no reason to celebrate as he too has been marked for death by the gods and that both of them will meet their final end at Troy.

he is a man, but he has superhuman agility and strength, and he has multiple gods which swarm him and prevent him from coming to harm. people fire arrows at him and pallas athene swats them out of the air or they bend around him like neo in the matrix

Stasis shield

Damn that’s a bitch move. Makes Achilles rage even more justified.

10/10 i'm fucking triggered delete this shit post achaean dog andromache did not deserve her fate

>People lived to 60 - 70 in ancient times and some lived to 100 and even older

Exception, not the rule.

> in the past 100 years

You are right, but that is right of any era. To Herodotus, Ovid, Aquinas, and Gibbon, there is a nostalgia for the simplicity of those before us, because those before us wrote of the world before those that followed. Just because they wrote of better times doesn't make them right by default. It is qualitative subjectivism, not supported by objective empirical evidence.

>Because families were more intact in the past and families are the bedrock of civilization in my opinion.

That is a point of debate, and you know it. Patriarchal dominance does mean life was better, only more controlled. If your focus is on being the domineering party, than your argument makes sense.

>I think society has experimented so dramatically, it's out of control at this point. I already have a subservient wife right now, I never trained her or anything it's just how she is. Anyhow, I care about the world I live in and want it to be healthy. Strong families = a healthier society.

That is a fair point. Some relationships come together because there is mind-meld between the two. That was not wholly the case in Greece or Rome, nor is it today. There forced marriages, forced relationships, where the weaker party is forced to follow suit. If you don't believe otherwise, I'd argue that you see the world in a better light than is objectively true.

i read the odyssey and i couldn't put it down, you read the parts about telemachus going off to find where his father is, you probably didn't even get to the part where odysseus is introduced

>brother wants in house pussy
>dies for his dick

very based

Not even that user.

>that isn't a jab.
Yes it was you pussy. Your whole post is smug patronizing garbage that you see on reddit as you play stupid and pretend the self-centered free love experiment has been a wild success, and that everyone not in support of it is backwards and quaintly misguided.

> It is qualitative subjectivism, not supported by objective empirical evidence.
pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/17/1-the-american-family-today/
Eat a dick you smug fucking faggot.

Attached: iu[1].png (459x372, 232K)

HECTOOOOOOORRRR

Attached: 1464002960913[1].jpg (960x905, 116K)

HECTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR

kek

you are a dumbass. such a show of cowardice would be interpreted by his soldiers that he is not favoured by the Gods anymore and abandon him.

THey were far more Roman than any of the barbarian infested shitholes of the west

>pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/17/1-the-american-family-today/

What is it that you think you have given any meaningful evidence for? Why are you so testy and yourself acting so smug (as compared to my smugness)? Are we debating the same subject? You are all over the map, with little I can see I counter-arguing what I had been previously trying to state?

Riddle me that Batman, and I'll try to keep up with your unhinged counterargument