Why hasn't capeshit been able to make a villain on par with him yet?

every marvel film is the same, same structure same ending. dark knight is its own film, none of these marvel structured films will beat it

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Sometimes i forget that underage and reddit posts here, today i got reminded

Not only Marvel but DC too. After TDK, there wasn't any interesting villain at all.

you read your own posts?

Because none of the actors who could play it want to end up murdered as part of a PR stunt.

society

>oh noes an opinion that doesn't fit boardmentality
Cringe

does he count?

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> Thanos
Are you 7? Younger?

because it wouldn't sell
capeshit wants villains who's ideals are easily understood by their mouthbreathing viewers

take thanos for example: "i want to kill off half of the population because overpopulation would be bad in the long run"
its stupid, but they viewers can understand where he's coming from

ask them why joker wants chaos though and they will say something like "idk because he's crazy, because he's the joker"

DC is even fucking worse, i cant believe anyone would watch that shit. Marvel is mostly shit but some of it is decent, but fuck me DC has no clue

He's fine for comicbook movie standards
Take off the contrarian goggles

the mouse himself

>ask them why joker wants chaos though and they will say something like "idk because he's crazy, because he's the joker"

give us your answer

>le joker
>"if I do unexpected thing people will FREAK, fuck society and people man time to troll"
>not basic like reddithanos

> He's fine for comicbook movie standards
He’s fine, sure. But le purple CGI man with the laughably incoherent plan that completely falls apart with even one second of thought - who then becomes a rote, ‘kill everything’ one note villain in the sequel - does not rival the best of the genre and only an absolute zoomer would even suggest otherwise

Le cringe. This is not twitter or league of legends chat.

Joker… you have my respect. I hope the people of Earth will remember you.

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Thanos had bigger stakes, but his reasoning is retarded. He also has better plot armor than thw heros. He's one of the worst film baddies ever.

>Thanos
>a walking ideology that fails to reflect the heroes in any way
>a good villain
lmao

This video gives me feels, lads. I miss Heath and it always reminds me when TDK is still the best "capeshit" movie so far.
>youtu.be/n4JJb--pGuk

>a villains plan needs to be logical through and through to be a good capeshitvillain
Okay I'll bite. How is jokers plan good? His motivation is fightclub tier

Again, why is thanos retarded ideology not as bad as jokers retarded ideology? They are on par. But they believe in something and aren't bland baddies

Thanos is unironically better.

Maybe not the performance but as a narrative villain, absolutely.

youtu.be/zT7fJwLgWws

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There’s a difference between logical and coherent. Joker has a goal - anarchy / societal collapse - that we would consider mad but he goes about it in a shrewd and fitting way, sowing fear and discord whilst forcing people to act against others for the sake of their own self-interest. Thanos has, nominally, a goal of peace and stability, but he goes about it in the single most pants-on-head retarded way imaginable, via indiscriminate mass murder with absolutely zero consideration of externalities or knock-down effects

Joker is exploring something fundamental about the human condition, essentially to what extent modern man is actually civilized beyond the state of nature (‘red in tooth and claw’) and to what extent he’s merely the product of his circumstances. Thanos literally wants to kill trillions because he has the critical thinking abilities of a short-bus pre-schooler, and in Endgame they dumb it down even further to “let’s kill everyone” bc he has a temper tantrum after some people take issue with mass genocide. He’s a villain by and for brainless - you get that, right?

youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8

Thanos was just an obstacle for the heroes to overcome. He was a giant meteor heading towards earth; he didn't really challenge our heroes in any meaningful way, and from the start he posed no real threat in the eyes of the viewers

Joker is one of the laziest villians ever. "Why did he do this" "Why is he fixated on that" all get boiled down to "lmao hes crazy bro" and thats the lamest way to explain a villians motivations. Most writers face a challenge because they need to build a villian from the ground up which requires a lot of layers and actual character building. But Joker needs literally none of that, writers could come up with insane shit while baked on LSD and the audience will accept it cause "mental illness bro". The only reason the Joker wasnt panned was cause of Heath, had anybody else played the character Joker wouldve been a 1-D cartoon caricature who does shit just cause for the sake of it.

He would if he wasnt chained to the no balls serialized format that was in the end limp wrist-wasted anyway by bagging on the serialization aspect while the show died in the 3rd season anyway

season 1 was pretty great, season 2 suffered a ton from the defenders set up and other similar trash, season 3 started off phenomenal, peaked at the literal halfway point and then tumbled down when they didnt actually have the balls to make daredevil cross the line

Heath make the joker feel like a Timothy McVeigh take on the character

not him but obviously because he cant cope with functioning in a normal society after X life changing traumatic events

Name one single thing he did in TDK that there isn’t a clear, coherent explanation for. You can’t

Holy Mother of Christ what a pile of garbage! A decade ago this bayformers tier shit would have been absolutely trashed and memed on, but these days you just get to buy the critics I guess. Fuck zoomers, it's over.

Because the entire reason why TDK was so good, was specifically because it was trying NOT to be stereotypical capeshit. It still definitely wasn't what you might call hard science fiction, but it was about as close to it as you will ever see capeshit get.

The real reason why Heath's Joker was so scary was because he wasn't a cartoon character like Loki, using some stupid obviously make believe McGuffin to try and take over the world. He was a lot closer to a real world psychopath, and to some extent at least, he had similar motivations as well.

Joaquin won't be as good as Heath. Not because he isn't a good actor, but simply because no one else can or will be as good as Heath was. Heath has done to capeshit supervillains what Ricardo Montalban did to Star Trek ones; in the sense that every single other villain (or portrayal of the Joker specifically at least) will be trying to imitate him, and failing.

Why was he fixated on Batmans identity when he could go around blowing shit up and causing enough anarchy to get Batman all riled up? If he is such an agent of chaos, why tf does he give a shit about some nutjob running around in a suit when he could target and murder much more imp figuers and cause real chaos?
>inb4 "muh good people can be bad too"
Literally nobody gives a fuck about gay shit like that, thats a cartoonish ideology explained away by Jokers insanity

>Joker has a goal - anarchy / societal collapse - that we would consider mad but he goes about it in a shrewd and fitting way, sowing fear and discord whilst forcing people to act against others for the sake of their own self-interest.
Which is literally the most simplistic carrying out of a plan imaginable. The whole concept of chaos villains is extremely simplistic and pretty much the wildcard of writing because acting on chaos just means spiting and going against the current order.
Adding to that causing suffering for the sake of it (in this case through playing out people against themselves) is just a lazy written villain plot too. This is greatly presented by the fact that every second children's cartoon villains motivation is just chaos. It's a immoral motivation so basic that even toddlers get it.
The rest of his ideology is simply gimmick tier and can easily be explained as him projecting. But in tdks case it's also a idea that is furtherly explained but simple as shit.
>woah people are really just a product of their surroundings, if parents tell you to behave you'll probably behave, now imagine parent with le society
>woah if you do something unexpected people will be confused
A wise villain for the true intellectuals in fucking deed.
Jesus Christ.
The joker is just as retarded as thanos ideal wise. Nolan adding his fancy cinematic gimmicks like using cryptic language and abstract storytelling and stretched dialogue does not make it better.
Thanos may be as retarded as the joker but at least his idea has an extra layer to it because he tries to act on and preserve order instead of blandly disagreeing with it.

I agree. Let's just hope that Joaquin's Joker will be at least decent and won't disrespect the character or Heath's memory and I'm saying this because his appearance resembles Heath's version the most compared to any other live action Joker, so many people will make the connection nevertheless.

>Joker is one of the laziest villians ever. "Why did he do this" "Why is he fixated on that" all get boiled down to "lmao hes crazy bro" and thats the lamest way to explain a villians motivations.

Terry McGinnis summed that aspect of him up very well. Although to be honest, I view Heath's Joker and the pre-Heath incarnations (including Mark Hamill's) to almost be two completely different characters. I know people probably still think that they have a marginal amount in common, but there's really very little, other than their general motivations. I also like Heath's a lot more.

>Let's just hope that Joaquin's Joker will be at least decent

I've seen Joaquin in a number of different movies now, and from that I feel confident that he will still give us the best Joker since Heath, and probably the second best overall. His Joker film will be only the fourth film I will have seen cinematically since 2012, if that gives you any idea of how much I'm looking forward to it.

>dont be underage
>still think joker is the best villain
Wow joker le deep character why dont you laugh epic xd

Congratulations, the entire point of the trilogy - explicitly stated repeatedly in each film - that Batman was primarily a powerful symbol sailed completely over your bloated-yet-empty head. He was in an ideological battle for the soul of Gotham, and therefore it is completely fitting and appropriate that he concerned himself with tearing down all symbols of upright, aspirational figures by making them compromise their stated values as he sought to reduce the rest of the city’s populace to a more primal moral paradigm

If you cannot see the simple logic to that as well as the parallels to real life, you are beyond my reach, enjoy Quipshit #31

Based. Only boomers and normie like the joker

The Joker has the same reasons to do what he does as Batman has to do the things he does.

The Joker is Batmans Jungian Shadow. Or Batmans Hegelian anti-thesis.
He is to crime what Batman is to vigilante justice. And really, after that, there's no need for another supervillain

Well, I'm still skeptical about him but we'll see. Time will tell.

Each rambling, peppered-with-errors sentence here reveals you to be too stupid to be worth responding to. Please, please, go make a Spider-Man thread about the bully being hit in the balls before you embarrass yourself further
> It's a immoral motivation so basic that even toddlers get it
You missed the entire point and commentary of the film lmao incredible

I know this is b8 but really love how people think explaining things without saying anything is a good argument?
What is his motivation? How does it make sense? Why does he think the way he thinks? What's the thought pattern?

Cool you couldn't explain how I am wrong yet I'm wrong
Pretty Yea Forumsish mah dude

Fuck Darth Maul looked cool

Batman decides to take the law into his own hands to clean up Gotham.
What is to say that someone one day won't decide to do the complete opposite. That is the Joker's motivation. Because every action has a reaction and when Batman decides to do what he does, the reaction of that is creating the Joker.

BUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRN

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edgy

Dude, they make it quite clear that TDK Joker is a nihilist that tries to prove that his nihilism isn't his personal weakness. His whole plots to make people eat each other are a quest to prove that yes, the world is insane, and it isn't him that was individually weak to withstand it.

He's actually quite the insecure character when it comes to personal philosophy, since his only successes really are Harvey and the couple of people who try to kill the accountant.

>a walking ideology that fails to reflect the heroes in any way
Are you stupid? The whole moral conflict of infinity war is that while the avengers arent willing to make certain sacrifices but thanos is and thats why in the end he wins. Thanos sacrifices his daughter and wins but cap wont sacrifice a jobber android that hes barely interacted with if thats not reflective then please enlighten me

He did, no matter what you say

>Why was he fixated on Batmans identity when he could go around blowing shit up and causing enough anarchy to get Batman all riled up

He never gave a shit about Batman's identity, it was just a ploy to get the mob to hire him and make Batman take action. As soon as he takes over he never cares about Batman's identity again.

That really doesn't explain half my questions
Why would a man decide all of a sudden to counter him in an extreme way just for the sake of closing the reactionary circle?
I mean this even goes against the ideology he states in the movie, by that logic he's an agent of order by being an agent of chaos.
It's such a lazy villain I'm convinced people simply defend him ironically

This.

There were plenty of sacrifices that could have been done to win.

>Kill Vision and destroy his stone
>Kill Gamora before Thanos gets to her
>Kill your feelings for Gamora so Iron Man can remove the gauntlet from Thanos

>Are you stupid?

The Millennial form of rational argument, ladies and gentlemen. A worthy replacement for the Socratic method.

Because it requires a good actor and a good script, which capeshit is incapable of putting together.

>ignoring the argument that follows and sticking to the literal first sentence
You truly are a worthy replacement for the socratic method. Marvelous reasoning indeed

Literally all villains are obstacles you retard
That's the point, they are the opposing force. So is thanos but also the joker. The joker is even just there to be a challenge to batman and the city by his own ideology

You are in an anime board remember that.

unironically the most overrated shit in history. he's fine but he's not some fuckin acting revelation or some shit.

TDK Joker was generic shit that everybody licked up because they've never heard of a villain that outsmarts the hero who is oh so crazy.

Bane was unironically better

bane was poopy

>Are you stupid? The whole moral conflict of infinity war is that while the avengers arent willing to make certain sacrifices but thanos is and thats why in the end he wins.

He doesn't win considering that this is a two part story.

So he is the same as ultron and stryker ? Sacrificing a whole lot to improve humanity?

Thats like saying the empire doesnt strike back in ep 5 bc its a trilogy..

But the empire doesn't win the bigger conflict, the darkside doesn't prevail. It would be like saying Palatine was right after seeing Empire strikes back. You're talking about the moral conflicts aren't you? So Thanos' morality was right in one movie and wrong in the other?

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lol, not even close

To him the world is a clown world that doesn't make sense so he wants to normalize it so it does make sense

Except that this theme is never developed or explored because the Avengers never end up sacrificing anything that they weren’t already demonstrably willing to sacrifice 10 years ago and they still win while Barney turns into Le Evil kill errybody cartoon they tried (poorly) to pretend he wasn’t. Tony sacrificing himself for the Snap is the exact same beat they made in the first Avengers with the nuke, there’s no growth or meaningful development that shows that he’s learned or changed at all from Thanos’s machinations
Compare TDK, where the Joker successfully corrupts the moral paragon of the city and the remaining heroes have to compromise their values and sell a costly lie to overcome this final victory. This leaves Bruce a broken man in body and mind, haunted by the past as the lie eventually resurfaces to tear apart the fragile peace they had built. Eventually he finds salvation - both narratively and thematically - in Selina, who he believes can be redeemed in that even seemingly bad people can be willing to put others before themselves when the chips are down (obviously the exact antithesis of the Joker’s philosophy in TDK), closing out the arc poignantly as the tale becomes about flawed people finding redemption through selflessness, the exact reflection of the idea that admirable people are one push away from regressing to beasts through self-preservation

He was right in both. The avengers end up beating him because theyre willing to sacrifice everything arent they? Thats the whole “whatever it takes” thing even stark who now has a family goes for the risk, if anything (in that particular moral conflict) thanos is proven right by the avengers acknowledging that in order to win you need to be prepared to sacrifice things.

Wrong. See Even setting aside how Thanos’s plan is the very stupidest, least coherent plan of any comic villain - including Amazing Spiderman’s The Lizard, who just wanted to turn everyone into lizards ffs - you can set aside how illogical and ridiculous it is and still find nothing of worth in terms how the heroes react to it, as they go through no moral development whatsoever and beat him bc a character who’s ‘only a genius on Earth’ invents time travel overnight and laughs it off with a quip about a naughty word

Yes, I actually WILL ignore the rest of any post which starts out with the question, "Are you stupid?"

I make no apologies for that whatsoever.

Why didn’t Doctor Strange just tell Thor to aim for the head when he looked into the future? The idea that the convoluted mess of events in Endgame is “the only way” they could’ve won is so gapingly, self-evidently pants-shittingly incoherent

>The avengers end up beating him because theyre willing to sacrifice everything arent they?

The fuck are you talking about? Sacrificing themselves has been a part of every single capeshit hero in all of the MCU. Stark was literally Willing to do the same shit in the very first avengers.

Thanos was willing to sacrifice his loved ones along with himself.

Based.

You know TDKR was a sloppy movie that Nolan clearly did to get funding for his original projects but even then it has a clear and consistent character arc for Bruce.

Compare that to endgame where the characters are pretty much stunted in terms of character growth. Can't believe they did all that moving on crap about cap with him saying that they guy who wanted a family life was dead and having a romance with sharon only to end up having a family life with Peggy in endgame.

Yep, not only is the idea not developed in Endgame, but it’s *actively rejected* at Vormir in the meme fight over who gets to sacrifice themselves. They learn nothing, no growth, they were never actually morally challenged by Thanos - which makes sense as he’s a ridiculous one-note villain

This is actually fucking atrocious.

These movies are made for mentally stunted ‘adult’ children who stand up and clap - I shit you not - when one good guy uses the other good guy’s weapon. Expecting logic from flicks like that is hopeless

LMAO how the fuck is Thanos even in this conversation? That meathead makes Killmonger look like Daniel Plainview
A real answer would be Magneto