UHHHH KILLING NPCS MADE UP OF COMPUTER CODE IN YOUR VIDEO GAME IS EVIL

>you told me Black Mirror is a thinking man's show.
You just be thinking of r

Black Mirror has done a variation of the "egg" plot point too many times. White Christmas, Callister, Black Museum, San Junipero (kind of).

this, but unironically.

Robots are the lowest form of life. I would punish an infinite amount of robots if it meant preserving the life of one insect, that is how little I value robots and artificial intelligence. Sometimes I yell curse words at the robotic arms and their control units when nobody is around at my work.
I hate computers and robots so god damn much.

I think this particular episode's tone doesn't make a lot of sense.

Because on the one hand, Black Mirror is supposed to be about various flavors of existential horror that are painted by extrapolating modern uncertainties of technology and society. So the idea of AI becoming resentful and actually murdering a person who can't do anything about it is sort of inherently a passable concept to run with.

The problem with the episode is that the writing did it's best to demonize the Boss/Captain Kirk guy on two fronts (him being a weird creepy loser IRL, and him being a complete dick to computer programs) meaning that it really does not want you in any way to sympathize with him. In fact, I'd argue that his death at the end is built as something the audience should root for.

But like, that's sort of backwards. Because the whole inherent point is that the dude literally did nothing to deserve it. He didn't hurt anyone, he didn't even leave his own house. He just played a video game and got murdered by his computer. The fact that it's built up as the "good guys" winning in the episode deflates the horror aspect and just turns it into trying to sell us on the idea that the computer program is real people with real feelings and that's just going to lead back to the start of the loop.

if they were sentient, then yes, what he did was shitty

holy fuck, what an embarrassing post.

Based and bio-pilled

>if they were sentient, then yes, what he did was shitty
Who defines sentient? Hell, how do we even know what the show was showing us was real, and not just an abstract representation of complex algorithms running? Like, how do we know that what was shown wasn't just an anthropomorphization of a computer program running on a hard drive, but using real people and real words as stand-ins for lightspeed binary calculations?

I just don't get why they made all the clones/npcs unlikeable fucks. Whatever he did to them doesn't make me sympathize with them because they are all assholes to the guy in the real world. Who gives a shit about a video game.

They just really, really like hitting that one solipsistic note over and over.

Funny, because I would stomp on any living animal to bring back Tay

Here's where they fucked up:

They didn't even try to make it clear that the digital clones had consciousness and deserved rights. They basically tell you that they do, but without even putting in the effort into doing so. They're called clones, but in the very end, they're still just simulations.

Honestly, I think what would've made it actually horrifying is if the dude had cloned a dead person into the simulation. It'd show the horrors of it because in a way, you'd never die. It's actually one of the greatest cyber punk horrors, that even long after death, your consciousness, or a clone of your consciousness will be uploaded into the digital world where you will live forever.

That'd make things more ambiguous and would call into question if this could ever be considered ethical.

Instead, they just wanted to take a shot at incels. Fucking morons.

>you told me Black Mirror is a thinking man's show.
thats the redditors senpai everyone knows black mirror is normiepill retard trash

They are by definition NPCs(Non-playable characters) I think you let the memes get to you.

oh wow such an edgy show le white male ist ebil

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Roko's basilisk is waiting for you honey

>Roko's basilisk
utterly retarded hypothetical

Just read a book, it's almost guaranteed that you'll never be intellectually satisfied by watching television, let alone Black Mirror. This is show is designed to regurgitate pseudo-philosophical nonsense so people can feel "woke" and then go on to spew their meaningless thoughts on twitter.

>dude what if computer code and AI was real and had feelings

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>Honestly, I think what would've made it actually horrifying is if the dude had cloned a dead person into the simulation. It'd show the horrors of it because in a way, you'd never die
Yeah but they did that story already in like three other Black Mirror episodes. Only in some of those, it was actually unnerving like they intended because you are literally told by the dialogue and narrative that the computer AI being tortured is literally a 1:1 copy of a real human's brain, and is being fed stimuli to produce reactions. That's very different then just being an AI programmed from scratch, that neither was a human at any point, nor has any context or concept of real feeling or sensation.

But as I said, the problem with this particular episode is that they SORT OF went with that, but they also went with the whole "What if our computers can figure out how to hurt us" kinda thing, and then also spent the whole episode trying to convince us some loser nerd is literally Hitler and him being murdered is a good thing, plus I guess there's some shit at the end about them somehow escaping their program and going out into a wider digital world? I dunno.

The point is, it was a bad set of ideas to rope together, and it was done badly, and it succeeded in neither being a cool robot-rebellion story, or a good digital-horror story. It just ended up being some wank piece about a computer programs who somehow knew what fucking was and really wanted to do it.

This episode is basically a retelling of I Have No Mouth, and they're both bad.

This wasn't even the worst episode in that season. Everything after this episode got so much worse, Crocodile is probably the worst thing I've ever seen on TV

What’s the egg plot point mean

>who cares if they have identical personalities to their real life counterparts, with the same feelings, emotions, etc? For a rational individual (such as myself), they are still only code in a machine...

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He probably survived

Though I've never heard it called anything related to an "egg", he's referring to the whole solipsistic brain-in-a-vat idea that a mind absent a body can still be fed stimuli and information to make it seem like it's not a brain in a vat. Basically that there's no real way to know whether the universe you experience is not just sensation and stimulus being fed into your mind, whether real or purely digital, so there's no way to prove you're not just a brain in a vat.

The variation, of course, is that if you can put someone's brain in a vat, or even a clone of a brain, you could in theory do all number of things you couldn't do to an actual person because you're just feeding information into the brain, so you can control what it experiences. And the further begged question of, does a digitally cloned human mind (or even a real human brain in a vat) have rights, or can you use and dispose of it at will?

>who cares if they have identical personalities to their real life counterparts, with the same feelings, emotions, etc?
How is it physically possible for a piece of computer code to have the same personality, memories, and thoughts as a real person, without them ever coming into contact?

Also how do you know they had those things? How do you know what you're seeing is an accurate model of what is happening inside the computer?

That's all implied in the episode.

>By taking the DNA
>Daly can create fully sentient
Such hard sci-fi, much thinking.

>That's all implied in the episode.
How do you know that? How do you know it's literal and not visual metaphor?

>fapping to fictional drawings is evil

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I'm friends with someone who was on the writing staff

First two seasons were alright, most of the episodes still had noticeable flaws but you could just bite your tongue and ignore them. S3 onwards is dogshit

what

its literally a
>lonely white men are dangerous and evil
episode.

Thanks for my daily dose of cringe, loser.

That one was pretty retarded.

He survived after being logged out due to inactivity, or because a family member or Neighbor noticed his absence. Then after coming to realizing what happened he tortured the NPCs for the rest of his life and wrote some code so it wouldn’t happen again. Sorry ladies

Nothing furthers the divides in this country more than a completely one-sided pop-culture that so obviously blacklists conservatives and uses the airwaves to wage a culture war against the rest of the country.

The idea that you can create a video game character like that just from the true human's dna is so fucking retarded in the first place that any philosophical discussion steming from it is doomed to fail.

>We still do not completely understand the human/biological brain and our human nature compels us to understand it more.
>We pretty much have computers, coding, algorithims, and machine learning down to a point.
Thats the difference. We can ask "why" and inherently do. A computer would only be able to ask "why" if we told it to.
Fuck robosympathizers

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The premise is retarded because how the fuck does DNA give them their memories?

FUCK CLONES
FUCK SENTIENT PROGRAMS
FUCK ROBOTS
AND FUCK JANNIES

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Because it's fiction. But yeah that premise is retarded. The question was whether or not it's moral to enslave and murder them if, regardless of how silly it is, they retain their personality and memories. Which it is unless you're an autist or arguing in bad faith.

Even thinking about something immoral is as bad as acting immoral.

>They're determined to make you miserable by breaking all your toys in front of your face
At some point, there won't be a place for sane people to retreat anymore, all quality escapism will be gone... except maybe for Yea Forums's western canon. But then, the book burning will begin. Again.

>can turn people into monsters
>can’t speed up his ship in time to escape

this was the only thing that really bothered me; other than that it was a cool concept

>Who defines sentient? Hell, how do we even know what the show was showing us was real, and not just an abstract representation of complex algorithms running? Like, how do we know that what was shown wasn't just an anthropomorphization of a computer program running on a hard drive, but using real people and real words as stand-ins for lightspeed binary calculations?
you sound like a christiancuck lunatic

I bet retards like you questioned the same bullshit during black slavery era or during witchunt.

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>thinking man's show
WHAT IF COMPUTER BUT TOO MUCH

not only based, but redpilles aswell

Not really, it’s just a handy way to illustrate to the viewer that these are digital replicants of real people - without explaining any long and laborious process to copy a person’s mind into a computer system. You’re just a retard.

The prime minister episode is the best episode they ever made and people just dismiss it because they are grossed out.
Prove me wrong (you cant btw)

>holy fuck
Not more embarrassing than yours

what did he mean by this?

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I liked the episode.

Computers don't have a consciousness, they're just complex machines imitating a living organism. They're literally just objects, stop having sympathy for fuckings objects. This is why I don't watch robot shit, I'm not going to watch objects pretending they have thoughts and feelings.

god, I can't wait until all luddites die

isnt a brain just simple electric cells to you, if you are that much of a rational baddie? if you were to replicate what is a human brain, isnt it legitimately just another brain? guess it all boils down to theseus ship once again
p.s. i agree on the episode being shit though, they did the same things 10x better in white christmas

However... Black Mirror is the only show I've seen where a black man gets cucked to the maximum.

>thinking man
>doesn't understand that there's no ontological way to distinguish a simulation from reality
How do you know you're not a simulated computer code NPC?

Black Mirror is a show for dumb people with delusions of intelligence. Anyone with a halfway-functioning brain should just marathon The Outer Limits again instead of watching this shite.

T.

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>isnt a brain just simple electric cells
theres likely a lot more to it

heres the thing though, we dont know much there is to it and how it differs from a mind that could possibly be created in the future. it could just begin to take on a life of its own if the conditions are right, it would be hard to tell as an outsider.

Humans brains are literally just organic computers and our computers are already on the level where they can be around as powerful as brains of smallest mammals. In few decades they will surpass human brains and at that point we are the lower life form.

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60s or 90s Outer Limits?

Epic Post bruh upboated for randomness

literally only incels get mad at this episode and I'm not even memeing.

so I should care about this guy to my left?

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Based retard countering RB with stupidity.

>theres likely a lot more to it

There literally isn't.

>digital clone using DNA
>this digital clone somehow has the memories necessary to be attached to his 'son'

What the actual fuck are people really this dumb? If he programmed the person to think it was his son then he could have done it with any kid, why bother to get the DNA of the actual son?

So they ended up being stuck in the MMO game. Would there be anyway for them to get out of that?

Right off the back they met a player that treated them like shit. Imagine being stuck in a world like that and it slowly dies off to where you hardly see anyone anymore.

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my dad is a lead member of the writing team and he says you goys just dont get it

>He thinks 0s and 1s can capture the qualia of human experience
Do sad emojis no endless pain?

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Its interesting but taking the brain vat thing too seriously can get annoying
It just sound more legit than when Descartes talked about evil demons potentially manipulating and controlling him. Although the demon one sounds pretty awesome to watch as well

Literally the only possible thing is quantum entanglement allowing some sort of higher level group consciousness. But this is completely theoretical.

The reality is that in a couple decades computers will reach the level of human brain and then surpass it.

Your brain is literally a computer.

Oh fuck I was recently watching Game Night and wondering where I saw this policeman before

Code can never (read: never) replicate human consciousness. It's the Chinese room. Your brain isn't just a computer, it's an organ.

Delusion. Human brain is just an organic computer. There is nothing more to it.

For a glorified if-else tree like you, sure.

This episode was true Trek unlike STD.

>Human brain is just an organic computer
Is that really all there is to it? From a scientific standpoint? I don't think the human brain has yet been deciphered in its entirety. I mean, sure, there's a pretty good idea of its structure and functioning, but we're still far from fully understand its complexity, let alone replicate it.

I don't think the organic brain is truly exceptional, but you'd pretty much need a synthetic replica of a brain or a really intricate simulation of one in order for it to develop into a sentient mind.

This, fucking simpleton who wrote it up was just trying to recruit for his cult. An AI wouldn't have any reason to do what he proposed if it was working for your best interest, and we would no reason to build an AI that didn't work for our best interest.

>Robots will never have rights
Robots have a right to human dick, woman will soon be obsolete.

>Roko's basilisk
Take your reddit bullshit, pack it up tight and fuck off with it forever please

Brainlets ITT
The episode is about the dangers of accurately simulating human traits that can be empathised with and thus exploited because vast scores of the audience can be tricked into turning against their own species by a relatively convincing simulation of emotional appeal

The moral of the story is that most of the viewership can be propagandised into cheering a flesh and blood person being effectively killed because some lines in a batch file told them they were being mistreated

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>The reality is that in a couple decades computers will reach the level of human brain and then surpass it.
In processor power, obviously, the difference is teaching a computer how to think

you could draw that conclusion, but the way it was written and shot makes it clear that the creators did not mean for that to be the meaning to be taken away from the episode.

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I thought the moral was just that feel when an update forces its way through and fucks up your mods/cracked copy. I hate that I could really empathize. He'd get saved by the pizza guy anyway.

>Its interesting but taking the brain vat thing too seriously can get annoying
It's literally impossible to prove or disprove hard solipsism, so it's kind of frustrating and pointless to spend any time on, since no amount of discussion of the topic gets us anywhere. Especially since even if we believe we are just a brain in a vat, and everyone around us is just a computer program, we still have to act as if there are other thinking minds in our world because otherwise we couldn't possibly make the distinction between an NPC in a video game and a real person on the street, and even someone who takes the side of solipsism has to behave as if that is a real distinction to be made, since I have met no one who literally treats other people as if they were robots.

Yes, we could all be living in a computer program. But it doesn't matter if we are because we can't do anything about it.

I literally said exactly that, I guess you just missed it I do not think that is the inherent goal of the writing, I think it's actually a failed byproduct of the writing.

good post, fuck the bots on this board

Computers can already think. The thing computers are not particularly good at is what we call "fuzzy logic". Making connections and leaps that are not directly analogous or are made due to misunderstandings, self-deception, or just generally not clear conclusions to the presented problem. Computers aren't very good at extrapolating unknown sets or considering inputs and factors they haven't been fed yet. This means that while they're great at learning rules and solving problems within a ruleset, they don't do well outside of that ruleset.

I guess the most terrifying leap in machine learning would be if computers could sort out the data they do have, and then formulate and ask themselves questions about what data they don't have, and then create solutions for how to get that data. Once they can start asking and answering abstract questions, we're probably cooked.

>AWWW LAWDY HE DUN UP AND DUN IT NAWW CHILD AWWW SHIT NOBODY MESS WIT MUH PUSSY SHEEEEIT

100%, especially given Black Museum has the same message that the digitised consciousness of "good people" is worth more than the lives of "bad people".

Why am I not allowed to kill NPCs in real life? They are simply made up of amino acid code.

he stole her pussy

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Based schizo

Robot fuckers get it on day of the EMP.

Anyone else feel pity for the fucker?

nope, i hate incels

>They weren't NPC's they had consciousness and could feel pain and emotions.

Kidding right. You could literally switch them on and off, like I do my vibrator.

Why is every new Netflix show some woke bullshit? It wasn't like this a few years ago

they literally only starting making shows a few years ago zoomer.

their first original I think was 2011. they didn't start regularly producing content until 2013ish

Why do brainlets believe this? Science has no fucking idea what makes things conscious, I doubt its a fucking biological beep boop binary computer code, its probably some quantum shit

Woke bullshit is parasitic by nature.
It cant build anything on its own. Its literally an attempt to glorify losers.
It has to attach itself to something that has already been built up and begin to slowly drain the blood.

I thought Yea Forums always said that Black Mirror is the anglo interracial cuck fetishist's show.

Pic related only i don't understand the stupid bullshit you're saying.

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I love how melodramatic /pol/acks get. Don't forget that showing a brown person on TV is literally genocide!

>stop having sympathy for fuckings objects

What about for digital recordings?

youtube.com/watch?v=cOM3-aqwgyA

Do you think that each synapse in your brain differs from an electronic gate in a computer?
Your brain is just a bio machine of unprecedented complexity. One day, if technology continues to expand, it will be made obsolete.

Wot if ye mum was computah?

I hope so, his death at the end is absolutely the worst part of that episode. Removes the whole point of the DNA theft scene.

That's absolutely wrong, since both The Entire History of You is better, and the real best episode is Hated in the Nation

>I yell curse words at the robotic arms and their control units when nobody is around at my work
based and luddite pilled

> a computer program can actually experience suffering.
What makes you think this? See > Why do brainlets believe this?
Because it's true within the SCIENCE FICTION of this show, which is HYPOTHETICAL you fucking complete drooling moron.
> Science has no fucking idea what makes things conscious,
Even outside of the hypothetical realms of the show you simply have no idea wtf you are talking about philosophers have been working on this for literally thousands of years and you, mr.shithead KNOWS that nobody knows anything about this. KYS brainlet. Read Aristotle, Kant, Hume, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Husserl, Heidegger. Not everybody is as much of a drooling fucking idiot as you are.
> I doubt its a fucking biological beep boop binary computer code, its probably some quantum shit
The whole point of the show you idiot is that they are working on futuristic computing devices. Holy shit. Did you not even watch the show? It's about hypothetical computers in the future that are so advanced they are capable of virtually replicating human consciousness. Stop posting!!!!!!!

At the very least, those robots your talking about would have value to humanity as property and the insect wouldn't. Would you burn down whole cities just for one insect? Think before posting.

>Qualia do not (and cannot) exist as qualia are described to be. The various properties attributed to qualia by philosophers—qualia are supposed to be incorrigible, ineffable, private, directly accessible and so on—are incompatible, so the notion of qualia is incoherent. The non-existence of qualia would mean that there is no hard problem of consciousness, and "philosophical zombies", which are supposed to act like a human in every way while somehow lacking qualia, cannot exist. So, we are all philosophical zombies (if you define the term "philosophical zombie" as functionally identical to a human being without any additional non-material aspect.
>its probably some quantum shit
Bullshit, there's nothing magical about consciousness, unless in the sense of a magician performing an illusion. Enough of your brain cells shut down and you will lose consciousness, its as simple as that.

Netflix fucked it up

>the game runs when he's not playing and everything is constantly loaded at full detail
Why would you write a story about video games when you've never played one or spoken to a single person who's played one?

>Sometimes I yell curse words at the robotic arms and their control units when nobody is around at my work.
huehuehuehuehuehue

Humans are sentient beings made in the image of God.

I'm convinced this episode only exists in response to "Gamergate".

Thanks user glad to know you alone solely have the definitive inside track on the seat of consciousness, might want to share your results with the medical community for some peer review one of these centuries

The dumbest fucking bit was when the dude could make perfect current copies WITH FUCKING DNA.
THAT'S NOT HOW DNA WORKS HOLY SHIT.

Prove it.

the final redpill is that nothing deserves rights

OI MATE WOT IF YOU PUT YA DEE-ENN-AYY IN A COMPYUTA?

Your biological computer did not exist before you were born and so you have no memory of anything before then. Last night you went to sleep and for a time were not in REM, had no consciousness, where were you? If your brain is destroyed consciousness is lost and that's it. There is nothing to indicate any of these statements are false, so there is no reason to believe that humans are not just biological computers. There, proven.

your chair could be sentient for all we know nigga

Simulating the illusion of thinking entities is always going to be more efficient than actually computing an entire brain. You don't think those pedestrians in Grand Theft Auto actually have working brains do you?

That proves nothing of the sort. All that just says that science has an incredibly limited understanding of the human brain.

it makes a mess and some people care about them

Where do you see humans as more than just biological computers? Can you provide an example?

>Broadcast radio station
>destroy someone's antenna
>"wtf they stopped broadcasting"

Muh soul and individuality

They were sentient programs though. Like supposed neural scan copies of the real people.

I liked it. It was a moral question as tech had gotten so advanced such that it could emulate reality 1:1, so these were "beings" in a sense that genuinely felt and reacted to his actions. Not just NPCs we know now. Humans are organic machines after all... you could extend the logic to reality if you wanted to.

The brain is broadcasting from the brain. Your antenna analogy implies that something is coming from outside, can you tell us from where?

OI MATE, WUT IF THE JAPANESE TOILETS DIDNT KNEW THE WAR WAS OVER ?!

I just think its silly people keep pretending they know how the mind works when nobody knows how the mind works.

You can induct (from what we understand of more primitive beings like insects) that the human brain is merely the same thing. An organic computer with added layers of complexity making it harder to understand as a whole but the same complex of firing neurons as any other animal.

I admit that I'm an npc, I don't see myself as different from anyone else, I'm not conscious and I don't have a mind, there is no such thing, and I'm not joking, you can believe me or not, I don't care.

Neither of us can tell each other anything, that's the point.

You've got no more proof that the brain is broadcasting consciousness than anyone has that the brain is receiving consciousness.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not even saying I'm right. Damaging a brain and causing a shift in personality is no more proof that consciousness is inside the brain than bending the antenna on an old tv set is proof that you can change the colours in the movie it's showing.

I hate to say this, because in terms of personal convictions I largely agree with you.
All I'm trying to say is that declaring either of these positions to be hard facts, at this point in time, is unfounded.

A computer program can be controlled by a creator. That means we can easily make them feel good as well as bad.
Humans do not have that element to them; so there is a huge fundamental difference

>receiving consciousness
Why would anyone make such a needless claim?

>What are drugs

It's actually pathetic how easy it is to fundamentally change a person's mood and behavior with pharma.

>You can induct (from what we understand of more primitive beings like insects) that the human brain is merely the same thing
Pure conjecture

Your keys will get sticky

>Why would anyone make such a needless claim?
Because the very fact that consciousness can simply appear into existence from atoms and electrons that already existed beforehand makes little sense

>white man enjoys stuff
bad bad bad

Drugs are not our creator. They may altered our minds; but they do not directly control us like we can control an AI

I am just finishing season 3 and the most interesting episode was s1e3

You're assuming that consciousness is somehow special, and above ordinary matter, why? Observation is a spook, what you call perception exists on the same meta level as the object. Read Dan Dennett and UG Krishnamurti.

>You're assuming that consciousness is somehow special, and above ordinary matter, why
For the very fact that it does not follow the law of the conservation of matter. The very thing which makes inquiry into empirical reality possible

I dropped it right after that episode, what a fucking shit show.

>For the very fact that it does not follow the law of the conservation of matter.
What do you mean?

You are going to have to elaborate user.
The teleportation machine didnt work... is that what you meant?

Because humans possess free will you absolute retard.
Computers are incapable of acting irrationally - it goes against their most basic function, that being computing. A computer cannot choose, and a computer cannot act spontaneous.
The fact that you can come up with a theory this gay is proof that human brains often do not work concretely.

Means someone's read "I have no mouth and must scream"

Not yet. That would take knowing every variable and input in the human brain, which is complicated and will take time. We can already mind control things like cockroaches directly, only a matter of time and effort. Sorry to burst your bubble, it's actually really scary how base and meaningless we are at our core. "The soul" is just a self preservation, ego based instinct.

...

Its the thing allows certainty of consistency between observable processes. We boil water and know it doesn't disappear to another dimension because we can calculate that it has become steam.
Speaking of consciousness in such a way is not at all consistent and clear. Even in how we speak of coming to be born and death is indelibly outside the language of a zero-energy universe

sauceeeeeeee

Consciousness is a process taking place inside a computer. Lets say a computer is on and is in the process of making calculations, we call that process calculating, after it is shut off we don't say "it must be calculating in some other place now because calculation doesn't follow the law of the conservation of matter."

>Consciousness is a process taking place inside a computer.
Conjecture

So we're living in Fahrenheit 451?Makes sense

What makes you think it's not? we're going in circles here, but your truth isn't as good as mine or something like that, I'm right and you're wrong.

Because consciousness on the most apparent level is a direct and contained stream of active experience. Its something you are witnessing.
We as organic things are capable of computing and uniquely so among all the universe and we draw a comparison then with computers but its conjecture to assume that computation is enough to explain the emergence of experience which is a very different thing clearly, in that we never speak of an ordinary computer as a consciousness

Laughing at all the drones in this thread who know nothing about computers or human experience yet talk as if they were experts of both. Go for a walk you dweebs

Well I happen to have two different degrees in both philosophy and computer science and work in artificial intelligence but ok dude

You're speaking in a lot of cliches. We can directly draw our genetic line to basic creatures that are clearly not as advanced as we are. We didn't somehow assume an ethereal component to our brains, we merely added layers of complexity. It's hard to understand, but the steps are clear and present for you to see. We still have all of the artifacts from our animal past in things like sexual desire and anger/violence. These things aren't very rational but they're strong and influential.

So basically the premise is: lol dude what if you played the Sims and got murdered for it. Thank god I don't watch this garbage. I got memed into watching Bandersnatch or whatever and it was so fucking devoid of anything that I no longer care for any Netflix garbage

having a degree means absolutely nothing to me. I have a degree in computer science and the people who graduated alongside me were complete fucking morons. I also wasn't implying that everyone in this thread didn't know what they're talking about, just the ones who were saying that the human brain is the same as a computer

Fair enough. I wasn't one of them at least

I agree with the other guy. Consciousness isn't what you and many other people think. It's not some ethereal substance that stands above matter. That doesn't make sense. Consciousness is a material form just like everything else in the universe

>Because consciousness on the most apparent level is a direct and contained stream of active experience. Its something you are witnessing.
We know that we're awake and see things, how does that imply that it's coming from somewhere outside the brain?

Today's computers are very primitive compared to a brain, we get it, no one is claiming that.

Strawman. The question isn't whether it is vaguely localized in the brain. Which by the way to say its "in" the brain is clearly itself incorrect language, where in the brain? Everywhere at once?
The question is whether it can be adequately described as a material process. Is there an actual chain of causation we can trace in just the language of matter through which we can find consciousness appearing

>Today's computers are very primitive compared to a brain
Computers are not even primitive brains though. The only reason we see the human brain as being a complex computer is because we create the framework in which this ideas like brain, computer, come from. Of course we see the human brain as a complex computer because we can only see the brain from within this complex of human ideas in which we view the universe.
So yes, people in this thread are claiming that when they view the brain in terms like biological computer

>Strawman.
Uh I said consciousness arises from the brain, you said "conjecture", then I said "what makes you think it doesn't arise from the brain" then you said "Because consciousness on the most apparent level is a direct and contained stream of active experience. Its something you are witnessing." and I said "ok, how does that mean it's not in the brain?" and you called my "argument", which was really just a question, a strawman, was that a good recap faggot?

I don't know how you guys managed to graduate or work with people who have the same degree. I had that same major and I couldn't stand the stupidity or god complexes the other students had.

It goes back to the point about the antenna and the radio. Being localized somewhere isn't reason enough to assert any further chain of causation

I wanted to make money and just didn't talk to most of them

For the question of how consciousness arises from interaction of physical and cognitive processes in the brain refer to Dan Dennett's Consciousness Explained.

>I couldn't stand the stupidity or god complexes the other students had
It was hard. Going into computer science I thought I was somewhat self centered but fuck. The best professor I had was hated by most students because he actually made them work hard and criticized their code when it was shit. They couldn't stand being told they were wrong

This but unironically
I don't know why Hollywood is made up of a bunch of issues who want the US to be responsible for all the world's poor people but don't want me to fuck a robot

>Dan Dennett's Consciousness Explained
Sounds cool thanks. The idea of consciousness coming from physical processes is one I've thought for awhile but could never fully understand

>every 2nd black mirror episode
>we have god level technology like complete human-consciousness copied AI
>only use it for Star Trek VR and putting it into your toaster mind prison and setting it to 900 years in 5 mins perception
Is Black Mirror supposed to be a comedy?

>Being localized somewhere isn't reason enough to assert any further chain of causation
So consciousness being localized in the brain isn't reason enough to assert it's coming from somewhere else? Yeah, I agree.

Don't forget
>Dating app

Nor otherwise. Yes

What about that episode where Hideo Kojima makes PT VR but it turns out that all that was a death rattle induced by brain destruction caused by fucking 3DS AR cards. The fucking horror mansion was a dream, all Kojima did was fucking AR cards, that was the revolutionary technology the mc snuck in to steal

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Didn't he also die because of a phone call?

I could just imagine zoomers on here going round to someone's house and freaking out because that person's trapped their sim in a box with nothing.

That's how pathetic you people are who say this episode is morally wrong. Lmao.

please kill yourself

yes, because he had AR cards wired into his brain and they destroy your brain due to incoming calls. This is what he died for

Oh I see! Nor is there any reason to assume consciousness isn't coming from God. There is no proof that God doesn't exist so he probably does! There is no proof consciousness isn't directly beamed into our heads by VALIS, so it must be true!

it also assumes that an AI somehow magically fucking travels through time. I like how that's the last complaint people raise about it.

>Brain is best computer around
>shits on biologists
t. every CS grad ever

Nah God is real, sorry

if you say so

It's amusing how toaster has already become the go-to slur for robots rights/AI faggotry.

CIA says time travel is possible though.

So what if we were all just code? Would it be okay to kill each other? Maybe you're just 2brainlet to put thought into this interesting concept

Tbh this whole plot is kinda ripped from i have no mouth with the slight twist being AM gets his comeuppance

Woah thats incredible! Surely you have proof of this extraordinary claim?

it wouldn't be okay for us to kill each other but it would be okay for our programmers to kill us

Say you're just a robot to some other life form, are they justified in doing the same to you

Why is it okay for programmers to kill their creations if they have been programmed to experience suffering? Why is it any different than the programs killing each other?

This. There's no way for AI to form a conscience, either. Humanity's innate sense of right ad wrong can't be programmed unless you're going to manually code responses to every conceivable moral dilemma

>100%, especially given Black Museum has the same message that the digitised consciousness of "good people" is worth more than the lives of "bad people".

The "message" of Black Museum and like half of all Black Mirror episodes is that there is literally no difference between a digital copy of a human mind and an actual human, and they must be treated the same way and afforded the same rights because they are literally the same exact thing.

that's because you're a reclusive internet addicted loser who has never had a real friend

whoa deep dude you're totally not retarded and wrong at all

Even if they retain personalities and memories they're still just computer programs. This episode is retarded and the whole conceit of Sims actually having sentience makes no sense

>its probably some quantum shit

Only reason you say that is because you desperately want human minds to be something magical instead of something perfectly natural and ordinary. All things in nature can be replicated with technology. Humans are natural, therefore humans can be built.

It makes perfect sense, you just reject it because the idea of copying humans perfectly makes you uncomfortable.

This. Robot uprisings are as reddit as space nerds.

>I hav no cock and I must fuuuk

>lmao let's just replicate the consumers for our products

>Charlie "Pilau" Brooker
>Thinking man

He's a bigger pseud than Varg.

I never said a word to you about Black Mirror, and you know it, Billy.

What's a space nerd ?

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Don't be so sure, pal. It's only a matter of time before some maniacs try to record the brain activities of people in suffering and convert the resulting data into computer code.

Good job answering the question brainlet

all this poor man wanted to do was to feel powerful somewhere and not hurt anyone in the process. What he got for that dream was death.

Why does sims have sentience make no sense? Does it make you uncomfortable?

>carnists with no self-control expecting me to care about cyber clones
stop eating meat then get back to me

why do incels look up to this guy?

As long as Charlie is writing Black Mirror we will never get anymore Screenwipe eps. I blame Huq.

>Right off the back

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>Yeah but they did that story already in like three other Black Mirror episodes.

Pls which ones

Define consciousness and prove you have it

The whole plot only makes sense if the machine worked. The final shot isn't in any kind of flashback and he sees the tanks with all the Hugh Jackmans.

Advocating for AI rights is gonna get you called something directly analogous to race traitor in the future.

Humans are just biological heat engines.

>He thinks right wing twats will still be a thing in the future

Wait a second people setting their countries technologies to total war but forgetting to tell things as minor as everyday appliances when it ends might actually be a good sci fi idea.

>he isn't planning to merge with his robro
Dumb weeb

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER DIGITAL REPLICAS OF HUMAN MINDS WOULD BE CONSCIOUS IN REAL LIFE. WHAT MATTERS IS THE INTERNAL REALITY OF THE STORY, AND THE CLEAR INTENTION AS REINFORCED BY EVERY ASPECT OF THE PLOT, ITS FOCUS, AND ITS PRESENTATION IS FOR THE AUDIENCE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE DIGITAL HUMAN REPLICAS ARE FULLY CONSCIOUS, SAPIENT BEINGS AS CAPABLE OF COMPLEX, REAL EMOTION AS THEIR BIOLOGICAL COUNTERPARTS. THERE'S NO BUTS ABOUT THIS. ITS LIKE YOU WATCHED A GHOST MOVIE AND CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE GHOST WAS JUST A HALLUCINATION BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GHOSTS IN REAL LIFE.

Because there's literally no way to perfectly replicate a human brain, something so complex we don't even fully understand how it functions, with binary code, and even if there magically was, it would be fucking retarded to use our magic digital immortality tech on The Sims

Computers can only ever replicate emotion and give an image of consciousness. They can’t experience it themselves, because they don’t have a mind, only a brain. It’s the difference between using a code-book to translate a language, and actually knowing a language.

More than this, even a super-advanced AI would only ever have its own version of conciouseness, not human consciousness. It may not even care about human values like freedom or being independent, so why care?

Ghosts are way more believable than digitally cloning someone's consciousness through a strand of hair. The episode holds up under its internal logic but its internal logic is stupid, so it's a stupid episode

You're right.

What do you mean

Yes the DNA stuff was retarded.

But people keep claiming that diagetically, in the show, the digital entities weren't conscious. It's not about quality, it's about fundamentally misunderstanding the episode however good or bad it was.

What if the insect was your best friend

It's British what do you expect?

it never worked, not once. Bale sent wolverine to tesla, by giving him a faked diary if you remember.
So as retribution, wolverine framed bale for a murder. And when he's in jail, is when the movie starts. But all the information we received about wolverines exploits came from wolverines faked diary that he provided to bale at the start of the film. There was never a cloning machine, tesla was a fraud, bale knew it would be a wild goose chase.

The crux is that wolverine killed his body double and framed bale. Remember the quote about magic? 'the pledge, the turn and the prestige'? Thats directed at the audience, with this line spoken over the 'reveal' that wolverine was killing clones

>Now you're looking for the secret. But you won't find it because of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be fooled

Brilliant movie. Nolans best.